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The People's Stop Sign
I don't know whether to classify this as vigilante traffic justice, an informal partial privatization of the roads, or just an especially constructive prank:
Ottawa residents tired of drivers using an area street as a short cut have been benefitting from fake stop signs at a key intersection for nearly a year. In July, 2008, someone installed three stop signs identical to authentic City of Ottawa signs and painted the road with the standard white lines to match. The plan went off without a hitch until an alert crew of city workers noticed the signs were not set in concrete, the way official stop signs are. And so last week, the city took them down. A criminal investigation is underway; violators of the city's signage bylaws face fines of $5,000 per infraction. But residents are keeping mum about who they think put up the signs.
Since the stop signs worked, is it fair to call them "fake"? Offer your ontological arguments in the comments.
|6.10.09 @ 10:46AM|#
All stop signs are just an ontological statements using minimal ideograms, man.
Xeones|6.10.09 @ 10:47AM|#
Since the stop signs worked, is it fair to call them
"fake"?
Since Canada isn't a real country anyway, it is sort of a
pot/kettle situation.
|6.10.09 @ 10:49AM|#
On a molecular level, no one really "stops" anyway.
Stopping and going are just societal constructs.
|6.10.09 @ 10:54AM|#
Many shopping malls have 'STOP' signs to control traffic
patterns on their property. AFAIK, these are put up by the shopping
malls, not the City or Town.
Will the City of Ottawa go after those "violators?"
|6.10.09 @ 11:02AM|#
Probably not, Aresen, since (as you acknowledge) the Stop signs are installed on private property. It's a given that the "fake" Ottowa Stop signs were installed (not completely enough, unfortunately!) on public property, or at least a public right-of-way.
Warty|6.10.09 @ 11:03AM|#
Canadian stop signs are actually upside-down green triangles that say OTSP. It's weird, eh?
|6.10.09 @ 11:04AM|#
I wonder what would happen if anyone had ever been ticketed for not stopping properly at the fake stop signs?
highnumber|6.10.09 @ 11:10AM|#
I recall a story of a neighborhood lowering the speed limit and
cops issuing tickets based on the incorrect signs.
No, wait, minimal research says it was just one guy who did
it.
phalkor|6.10.09 @ 11:11AM|#
I wonder if removing a stop sign and putting in a fake one are
the same infraction.
I never stole a stop sign. However the bottom bit of a 3-way stop
sign that says "3-way" was irresistable to my 17 year old self. If
it were in a residential area I say go for it!
Ever see those plastic turtle/child mutants that say "SLOW". Well
everyone knows you can't get a ticket from a plastic turtle, but
the stop sign, genius!
Near where I grew up a residential street that had been used as a
high-speed shortcut between two major roads got speed humps. It
makes the road lame, but has drastically cut down on deer
casualties.
there should be no problem with fake road signs as long as they
increase the safety and alertness of the drivers.
Kreel Sarloo|6.10.09 @ 11:15AM|#
In most places residents of a subdivision can petition their
local government to make changes to control trafic for reasons of
safety or anything else. If after an engineering study is conducted
it is detemined that stop signs, speed bumps, roundabouts or other
"traffic calming' devices would be beneficial they'll usually be
installed, cost permitting. Most any time you see these things it's
because some busy body resident took up a petition for it. Most
towns are pretty responsive to such things.
I wonder why people in Ottawa can't do that, but have to take the
law into their own hands.
On the other hand if the road was private, it would be up to the
owners to determine what safety measures were needed.
Hugh Akston|6.10.09 @ 11:28AM|#
I wonder why people in Ottawa can't do that, but have to
take the law into their own hands.
I'm sure they can. But for some reason they preferred to spend a
couple of days and a hundred bucks to achieve the same effect that
would have taken eighteen months and $1200 if done by the city.
|6.10.09 @ 11:28AM|#
Ottawa residents tired of drivers using an area street as a
short cut...
Does anybody else find this quite common attitude as irritating as
I do? It's a public street. Residents don't own it and don't get to
dictate who gets to use it.
Xeones|6.10.09 @ 11:31AM|#
It's a public street. Residents don't own it and don't get
to dictate who gets to use it.
Exactly. Privatize that shit.
robc|6.10.09 @ 11:32AM|#
In most places residents of a subdivision can petition their
local government to make changes to control trafic for reasons of
safety or anything else. If after an engineering study is conducted
it is detemined that stop signs, speed bumps, roundabouts or other
"traffic calming' devices would be beneficial they'll usually be
installed, cost permitting.
Interestingly, studies have shown that "traffic calming" devices
actually cost more lives than they save.
..|6.10.09 @ 11:36AM|#
So would you still get a ticket for refusing to stop at a
fake stop sign?
Yes, but it would be a fake ticket.
|6.10.09 @ 11:39AM|#
Does anybody else find this quite common attitude as
irritating as I do? It's a public street. Residents don't own it
and don't get to dictate who gets to use it.
I certainly find it irritating. People seem to want the public road
on their block to be used by local traffic only. In some cases,
they petitioned the city to "dead end" their street (the street
connects to a main road, but the village has put up construction
barricades at the end of the block to prevent people from going
through)
In my neighborhood I routinely use side streets to avoid the
traffic and excessive stop lights on many of the "main" roads. Many
people that live in my town do the same thing.
Kreel Sarloo|6.10.09 @ 11:40AM|#
I think it depends on the "traffic calming" device, rob.
Making an intersection a four-way stop is unlikely to delay an
emergency vehicle but can have a definite affect of slowing down
general traffic.
Speed bumps for the most part are useless and you'll find are
recommended less and less.
|6.10.09 @ 11:42AM|#
It's a public street. Residents don't own it and don't get
to dictate who gets to use it.
Spoilsport.
Next, you'll try to tell us the property owners should have done a
little bit of due diligence and sat in their cars studying the
traffic patterns before buying a house in that neighborhood.
Of course, people shouldn't be allowed to park their legally
registered vehicles on public streets, either, so that makes it
difficult.
bubba|6.10.09 @ 11:45AM|#
Something similar happened in Houston, except when the crews noticed the signs weren't set in concrete ... they poured the concrete.
Zeb|6.10.09 @ 11:45AM|#
Dr K, exactly my response to things like this. Whatever the merits of privatized streets may be, in most places they are paid for by taxes and as such the residents should have no special rights regarding use of the street. If speed is a problem, put a cop there to hand out tickets. People will catch on pretty fast and find another shortcut and other people to annoy.
|6.10.09 @ 11:46AM|#
The most effective way to slow the traffic down is to rip up the
pavement*. But people whine about that, too.
*Cobblestone paving works pretty well, too, and it's frightfully
quaint.
|6.10.09 @ 11:47AM|#
@ Jim @ 11:04 AM
Yeah, true. I was mostly being snarky.
As for asking the local government to put up stop signs, I suspect
the residents may have done so and gotten the usual speedy response
from government: "The matter is under study."
|6.10.09 @ 11:49AM|#
Putting up unauthorized STOP/ARRÊT signs is wrong. The proper solution involves a strategically placed and operated green laser.
|6.10.09 @ 11:50AM|#
These are as "real" as legal stop signs but since they were put up by private parties on public property they should be considered illegal but not "fake." People in this country illegally are not referred to as "fake" but as non-citizens, therefore these are "non-stop" signs. Or, if you want, "go" signs.
|6.10.09 @ 11:51AM|#
I grew up on a residential street that was used as a high speed short cut by commuters. The neighborhood kids made great sport out of bouncing a ball into the street from behind a van or clump of trees as a speeding car approached, and watching (most of) them slam on their brakes expecting a child to follow. HIlarious fun.
|6.10.09 @ 11:57AM|#
People seem to want the public road on their block to be
used by local traffic only. In some cases, they petitioned the city
to "dead end" their street (the street connects to a main road, but
the village has put up construction barricades at the end of the
block to prevent people from going through)
Maybe they just want to stop driving like self-absorbed assholes
and show a little courtesy to the residents that live there. I
wouldn't mind that on my street.
Personally, I'm thinking more of the solution that was offered in
the "Garp."
|6.10.09 @ 12:08PM|#
Of course they weren't fake. They were unauthorized and illegal,
but they were real stop signs.
________________________________________________________________________
I wonder why people in Ottawa can't do that, but have to take the law into their own hands.
I'm sure they can. But for some reason they preferred to spend a couple of days and a hundred bucks to achieve the same effect that would have taken eighteen months and $1200 if done by the city.
FTW!
robc|6.10.09 @ 12:09PM|#
I think it depends on the "traffic calming" device,
rob.
Making an intersection a four-way stop is unlikely to delay an
emergency vehicle but can have a definite affect of slowing down
general traffic.
Speed bumps for the most part are useless and you'll find are
recommended less and less.
True enough, but even the 4 way stop, on a busy enough street,
could lead to congestion that the vehicle has to slow down to weave
thru.
My city, thanks to a change in law, has gone on a traffic hump
splurge. In June of 2007 when I made an offer on my house, my
street had zero. In October of 07 when I closed, it had 3. In 2
blocks.
Oz|6.10.09 @ 12:17PM|#
Hunt them down and kill them I say. I hate when neighborhood
nazis put up a bunch of stop signs - ya you cut back on the thru
traffic but you end up just fucking yourself sense you drive there
the most! It takes me forever to drive around in some neighborhoods
now.
But it's cool, i like to run them when people are out in front of
their house - it really pisses them off.
|6.10.09 @ 12:18PM|#
I'm not liking the terms "fake" or "illegal". I prefer
"undocumented".
My city, thanks to a change in law, has gone on a traffic hump
splurge. In June of 2007 when I made an offer on my house, my
street had zero. In October of 07 when I closed, it had 3. In 2
blocks.
And you still didn't get the hint?
Xeones|6.10.09 @ 12:26PM|#
But it's cool, i like to run them when people are out in
front of their house - it really pisses them off.
Yeah, people love it when sociopaths threaten to run over their
kids.
|6.10.09 @ 12:32PM|#
Something similar happened in Houston, except when the crews
noticed the signs weren't set in concrete ... they poured the
concrete.
See, now that's how public servants should act.
hmm|6.10.09 @ 12:32PM|#
Here's a real sign posted not once, but twice in a
few block area.
I'd google map the sign and show the street view map, but I think
the google guys were scared to go down the street.
Oz|6.10.09 @ 12:34PM|#
That's so lame...the only thing more annoying then UNESESSARY
stop signs are "for the kid" arguments. I've never had 1 speeding
ticket, I don't speed and I don't run over kids.
I think it's stupid to make driving thru your own neighborhood a
pain in the ass by putting up extra stop signs all over the place
and I'm going to keep fucking with the assholes forever.
VM|6.10.09 @ 12:37PM|#
Xeones | June 10, 2009, 10:47am | #
Since the stop signs worked, is it fair to call them "fake"?
Since Canada isn't a real country anyway, it is sort of a pot/kettle situation.
The Big X out of the blocks for the win!
Xeones|6.10.09 @ 12:46PM|#
You get in a shtick and people won't let you grow out of
it.
Yo, fuck personal growth.
|6.10.09 @ 1:00PM|#
But it's cool, i like to run them when people are out in
front of their house - it really pisses them off....I think it's
stupid to make driving thru your own neighborhood a pain in the ass
by putting up extra stop signs all over the place and I'm going to
keep fucking with the assholes forever.
And I'll keep shooting your windows with a pellet gun from my front
porch.
Artavazd Papazian Odadjian-Gor|6.10.09 @ 1:07PM|#
See. You get in a shtick and people won't let you grow out of it
True. But don't resort to "changing your identity" like some pathetic jackasses do.
Fluffy|6.10.09 @ 1:09PM|#
I think it's stupid to make driving thru your own
neighborhood a pain in the ass by putting up extra stop signs all
over the place and I'm going to keep fucking with the assholes
forever.
My street is used as a cut-around, despite the fact that I live in
a decidedly un-urban area. People are willing to drive on surface
streets to avoid a two-stoplight downtown.
I don't particularly care about traffic, and don't really have a
"for the children" complaint, I just don't like the additional
noise. Since I don't really give a shit if YOU get where you're
going, I happily support stop signs, speed bumps, encroaching
crosswalks, whatever. And whenever I drive in my own neighborhood
and anyone is behind me, I purposefully go 10 miles an hour, and if
the person tries to pass me I floor it so they can't, and then slow
down to 10 again when they give up. Endless laughs.
Bill|6.10.09 @ 1:14PM|#
"Here's a real sign posted not once, but twice in a few block
area.
I'd google map the sign and show the street view map, but I think
the google guys were scared to go down the street."
It would be more convinging if it said, "Or We'll Cap Your Sorry
Ass"
MNG|6.10.09 @ 1:15PM|#
Someone probably beat me to it, but they probably mean "official" (approved) by "fake."
MNG|6.10.09 @ 1:18PM|#
I knew a crazy old WWII vet who lived down the road from me who used to hang dead animals (roadkill I assume, but some fish and a crab once as well) from a tree near the road in an attempt to get people to slow down...They would get covered with flies and stuff...
Jean Bart (well, as that naugh|6.10.09 @ 1:44PM|#
Artavazd Papazian Odadjian-Gorjian | June 10, 2009, 1:07pm | #
See. You get in a shtick and people won't let you grow out of it
True. But don't resort to "changing your identity" like some pathetic jackasses do.
*looks around*
**sneaks off**
Nate|6.10.09 @ 1:46PM|#
JW-
Excellent! Then I'll just call the pigs. I'll gladly admit running
a stop sign, and take a traffic violation, to watch you get
arrested for shooting a BB gun at passersby.
(Hope you don't mind if I just jump in here...)
|6.10.09 @ 2:08PM|#
VM,
I'm shining my green laser at your eyes. Shouldn't you be posting
or commenting over at Urkobold? Your taint is in dire peril.
hmm|6.10.09 @ 2:16PM|#
Aren't the kids that get run over by cars just Darwinism at work? If the faster, better seeing, smarter ones survive isn't the human race better off? The speeds should be increased to ensure a viable human population in the future.
Paul|6.10.09 @ 2:23PM|#
As you might predict, it's all fun and games until someone puts up a sign which conflicts with another sign on a cross street, and someone gets hurt or killed. Sorry to be the buzzkill.
Paul|6.10.09 @ 2:25PM|#
My street is used as a cut-around, despite the fact that I
live in a decidedly un-urban area. People are willing to drive on
surface streets to avoid a two-stoplight downtown.
I don't particularly care about traffic, and don't really have a
"for the children" complaint, I just don't like the additional
noise.
Individuals, making decisions about public transport ways, in their
own self-interest.
Fluffy|6.10.09 @ 3:00PM|#
Individuals, making decisions about public transport ways,
in their own self-interest.
Actually, the road I live on is maintained solely by the taxpayers
of my village.
That means that I am one of the owners of that road, and these
"individuals" are not.
If the motherfuckers who live in Boston can put up resident permit
parking stickers on the streets THEY pay for, then I don't see any
reason to not agitate in my village for restrictions on the ability
of non-residents to use the roads. I'd love an outright ban, but if
that's not possible I'm happy to make the use of the streets as
inconvenient for non-residents as possible.
I provided a full description of how minor the traffic obstacle
being avoided by the cutout traffic is in order to respond to the
posters who claimed that the reason people cut through is to avoid
significant traffic inconveniences. In my experience, that's not
true. It seems to me that many people will use a cut-through, even
if it saves virtually no time, in order to avoid even the
possibility that they might have to stop at a traffic
light. So the only way to counteract that is to make the
cut-through route as unpleasant as possible to use.
Super Mac|6.10.09 @ 3:29PM|#
"Fake is the new real."
Due to a loophole in law, fur coats valued at under $150 don't have
to have labels explaining what it's made of. China has taken
advantage of this law. They use both cats and Raccoon Dogs for the
fur. The animals are raised on farms for this and are often skinned
alive!
highnumber|6.10.09 @ 3:40PM|#
I live on a street that was dead-ended into a cul-de-sac and I
use ChicagoTom's street as a shortcut to avoid traffic.
I'm not joking.
(unless he moved)
|6.10.09 @ 3:50PM|#
As you might predict, it's all fun and games until someone
puts up a sign which conflicts with another sign on a cross street,
and someone gets hurt or killed.
Example?
I fail to see how putting up an additional Stop or Yield sign could
conflict with a cross street. Is there a "Floor It Through This
Intersection" sign? Because that would be cool.
|6.10.09 @ 3:53PM|#
Due to a loophole in law,
God, but I'm sick of this formula. Someone "using a loophole in the
law" is someone complying with the law as written. Thus,
Due to a loophole in law, fur coats valued at under $150 don't
have to have labels explaining what it's made of.
is a contentious and derogatory way of saying:
Fur coats valued at under $150 are fully compliant with the law if
they don't have labels explaining what they are made of.
Oh, BTW, the Chinese will skin a cat alive to sell you a cheap
coat.
Rex Rhino|6.10.09 @ 3:56PM|#
Does anybody else find this quite common attitude as irritating as I do? It's a public street. Residents don't own it and don't get to dictate who gets to use it.
They don't get to dictate who gets to use it, but they do get to
dictate things like stop-signs, speedbumps, etc... If you don't
like speedbumps and stop signs, use another road.
|6.10.09 @ 4:01PM|#
I understand that young men, in acts of civil disobedience, often remove street signs and relocate them to undisclosed locations.
Robert|6.10.09 @ 7:59PM|#
My street is used as a cut-around, despite the fact that I live in a decidedly un-urban area. People are willing to drive on surface streets to avoid a two-stoplight downtown.
Fluffy, you on Trinity St. in Newton, NJ?
dkite|6.11.09 @ 1:43AM|#
The real problem is Canadian gun laws.
Don't like the traffic? Shoot out the tires. Word will
spread.
Isn't that how you americans do things?
Derek
David|6.11.09 @ 10:43AM|#
As an Ottawa resident, I'd just like to point out that our mayor
is in court this month related to bribing his right-wing competitor
out of the electoral race.
The city council did not inspire confidence before this new corrupt
mayor (the last was equally corrupt). In the dead of this past
winter, there was a 60-day public transport strike, which made life
miserable for pretty much everyone.
I was once sitting on a bench with a buddy of mine late at night
and we saw a city worker's truck drive by to put down cones for
whatever. My buddy joked that another truck would probably come by
and pick them up. Sure enough, two minute later, with no work
having been done, a truck came by and picked up the cones.
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