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Arlen Specter, Democrat
The Pennsylvania senator, long a target of conservative ire, has switched parties.
I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans.
When I supported the stimulus package, I knew that it would not be popular with the Republican Party. But I saw the stimulus as necessary to lessen the risk of a far more serious recession than we are now experiencing.
Since then, I have traveled the state, talked to Republican leaders and office-holders and my supporters and I have carefully examined public opinion. It has become clear to me that the stimulus vote caused a schism which makes our differences irreconcilable. On this state of the record, I am unwilling to have my twenty-nine year Senate record judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate. I have not represented the Republican Party. I have represented the people of Pennsylvania.
I have decided to run for reelection in 2010 in the Democratic primary.
Full statement here.
As a pox-on-both-houses type, and someone who genuinely believes that most interesting political developments will take place far outside the racket's most "professional" arenas, I am always delighted to be reminded of the commonalities between the two big parties, particularly concerning their behavior in power. Throat-clearing aside, this strikes me as no favor at all to the Democrats. By choosing to die on the hill of the stimulus package of all things, Specter reinforces whatever notion there is that stimuli and bailouts are Democratic, not Republican, pet toys. Since professional Republicans are currently scattered in the wind, trying desperately to latch onto the anti-stimulus/bailout Tea Party movement, cementing that divide may come back to haunt Democrats when those policies (inevitably, I think) become so derided that even Barack Obama's impressive popularity can't rescue them.
Reason on Specter here.
|4.28.09 @ 12:53PM|#
Well, at least the filibuster-proof majority will now be an open matter. Good thing the Democrats have been so restrained in their Obamapalooza.
Alan Vanneman|4.28.09 @ 12:55PM|#
"Since professional Republicans are currently scattered in the
wind, trying desperately to latch onto the anti-stimulus/bailout
Tea Party movement, cementing that divide may come back to haunt
Democrats when those policies (inevitably, I think) become so
derided that even Barack Obama's impressive popularity can't rescue
them."
Matt, sweetheart, pot is still illegal.
|4.28.09 @ 12:56PM|#
Actually, shouldn't that be "filibuster"-proof? Voting to filibuster is lame. Couldn't a politican pull off some actual filibustering? (I know some people posting here could pull it off)
Mike in PA|4.28.09 @ 12:57PM|#
I'm not one to hope things get so bad that people wake up. The
one saving grace from this last election was that the democrats
didn't achieve complete free reign. Now they have thanks to my
senator.
I hear ya on things getting so bad, but liberty is so hard to get
back. Even if we get back a little, it's never as much as we
lose.
Citizen Nothing|4.28.09 @ 12:58PM|#
I have a very good liberal friend (cellphone code name:Trotsky) who yesterday declared that the bailout mess has proven that Obama will be just the next Jimmy Carter.
JP|4.28.09 @ 12:58PM|#
"I now find my political philosophy more in line with
Democrats than Republicans."
IOW, I'm almost certainly going to lose the Republican primary to a
conservative challenger, and I won't give up power until they pry
it from my cold, cancerous, high-IQ fingers.
|4.28.09 @ 12:58PM|#
Since I'm not on the blue/red spectrum maybe my observations of
this might be valuable.
If the GOP can still be said to have a governing philosophy,
Spector consistently ignored it anyway.
Arlen Spector wants the goodies of being with the majority. That
factored into his decision whether he admits it to himself or
not.
One step closer to a filibuster proof senate majority.
The 2010 Pennsylvania senate campaign is going to be fun as hell to
watch.
EJ|4.28.09 @ 1:00PM|#
"I have a very good liberal friend (cellphone code name:Trotsky)
who yesterday declared that the bailout mess has proven that Obama
will be just the next Jimmy Carter."
Yeah but i dont see any next reagan waiting on the sidelines.
|4.28.09 @ 1:02PM|#
I am not sure getting 60 votes is a good thing for Dems. Now if
something doesn't pass they can't blame the evil Republicans for
fillabustering.
Shitheads like Spector do less damage as Democrats than they do as
Republicans. When they are Republicans and vote for stupid shit,
they give the Democrats bi-partisan cover to loot the treasury. Now
that he is a Democrat, his voting for whatever Dem bullshit comes
down the line doesn't give them any bi-partisian cover.
Lastly, I losing someone of his ilk has to help the Republicans. It
is called addition by subtraction or seeing the collective IQ of
both parties in the Senate rise.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 1:02PM|#
Haw haw!
Yo, fuck Arlen Specter -- not because i care that he switched to
the other branch of the major political party, but just as a
general imprecation. He is the most vinegary of douches.
hmm|4.28.09 @ 1:04PM|#
I can't win on this ticket and ideology, so I will switch to the
last ideology that won. Fucking politicians.
Career politicians should have choice to run for a limited term or
risk be turned into soylent green at any moment past a set term. If
they want the power that bad let them put something up for
it.
Morally bankrupt assclowns. All of them.
creech|4.28.09 @ 1:05PM|#
Specter, whom Obama reportedly called and told his was "thrilled" to have him, will - if still healthy - easily win in 2010. But, frankly, his health is such that he may not live to fill out his term. And the next governor of Penna. should, if cycles repeat, turn out to be a Republican. So maybe this seat comes back to the GOP (for what it is worth) but no Santorum-like Republican will win in Penna. again.
|4.28.09 @ 1:06PM|#
"I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats
than Republicans."
how could he tell the difference?
The Club for Growth|4.28.09 @ 1:08PM|#
We wanted to make the government small enough to drown in a
bathtub.
Instead, we've made the Republican Party small enough to drown in a
bathtub.
|4.28.09 @ 1:08PM|#
Good picture, Matt. But nothing can top your McCain
pictures.
Hopefully Specter's defection (defecation?) will just be one more
thing driving the Obama train straight into the ground, at high
speed. I am so looking forward to the destruction of the Obama
brand.
|4.28.09 @ 1:12PM|#
I sit here wondering whether the current and upcoming spendarama is going to be sufficient to undo the coming recovery. I usually think that the economy is far too strong to be fatally wounded by anything the government is likely to get away with, but these idiots are trying so hard to kill the golden goose that maybe they'll succeed.
|4.28.09 @ 1:13PM|#
Don't forget Spector defended hippie deadbeat murderer Ira Einhorn and somehow got him bail allowing him to escape to France for 20 years. Spector is a complete dirtbag.
Chad|4.28.09 @ 1:15PM|#
Ahh, its fun to watch the right squirm. I could get used to
this.
Go have your Tea Parties and revel in your obsolescence. Nobody
else is listening.
PIRS|4.28.09 @ 1:16PM|#
"Instead, we've made the Republican Party small enough to drown
in a bathtub."
Better than having a bunch of RINOs diluting the message.
|4.28.09 @ 1:17PM|#
Yeah Chad because everyone here just loved Spector and is so sad
to see him join the Democrats. Meanwhile, Obama and Geithner loot
the treasury to bail out wall street. Yeah, that is helping out the
little guy isn't it? But you won and that is all that matters
right? Who cares if Obama is a Peronist who is stealing trillions
from you and your grandchildren to pay off fat cat chronies, he has
a D after his name and that is all that matters.
Whatever douschbag.
Nikola T|4.28.09 @ 1:20PM|#
Specter sure knows how to triangulate. He knows the primary is
lost, but he also knows it's easier to win a general in PA being
the "conservative" democrat instead of the "liberal"
republican.
This power thing sure is an awesome drug. These guys will do
ANYTHING to get it and once they have it, ANYTHING to keep it.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 1:21PM|#
"Go have your Tea Parties and revel in your obsolescence. Nobody
else is listening."
When your house burns down, Chad, all you are left with is soot and
ashes. It matters not who lit the match.
Good luck with that.
|4.28.09 @ 1:21PM|#
I am unwilling to have my twenty-nine year Senate record
judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary
electorate.
"I am utterly untouched by any goal or principle, other than my own
obsessive desire to be a Senator. So long, SUCKERS!"
PIRS|4.28.09 @ 1:22PM|#
"Specter sure knows how to triangulate. He knows the primary is
lost, but he also knows it's easier to win a general in PA being
the "conservative" democrat instead of the "liberal"
republican."
When was he ever a conservative anything?
Syd|4.28.09 @ 1:22PM|#
Now watch the desperation to thwart the Minnesota voters' decision get even more desperate. Al Franken is #60, unless Susan Collins or someone else also jumps.
PIRS|4.28.09 @ 1:26PM|#
Another advantage for the Republicans is that it is that much harder for the Democrats to blame "Republicans" for their mistakes.
Orange Line Special|4.28.09 @ 1:27PM|#
At this point in time, it might be helpful to note that Reason's best buds at Freedomworks could have had a major impact on both the stim plan and on Spector's future career. Instead, they did something completely ineffective either because they're completely incompetent or because they don't really want to succeed or some combination of both.
PIRS|4.28.09 @ 1:27PM|#
"unless Susan Collins or someone else also jumps."
I hope both Senators from Main make it official and join the
Democrats. I hope John McCain does too.
JP|4.28.09 @ 1:28PM|#
BTW -- I once saw Arlen on Amtrak between DC and Philly, sitting next to a woman who I assume was his appointments secretary or the like, and she was seriously HAWT.
|4.28.09 @ 1:28PM|#
Good riddance. Put me in the camp of hoping for unfettered Democratic rule. They are blowing it already, and will only go further overboard with a 60 seat majority in the senate. There's a reason why polling is now showing the two parties tied in approval ratings.
|4.28.09 @ 1:29PM|#
"Now watch the desperation to thwart the Minnesota voters'
decision get even more desperate. Al Franken is #60, unless Susan
Collins or someone else also jumps."
It doesn't really matter. Collins and Spenctor are going to vote
how they are going to vote regardless of whether there is a D or an
R after their names. If anything Spenctor going D is a good thing
because it gives the Dems no excuses for their more derranged
supporters if something doesn't pass.
Matt Welch|4.28.09 @ 1:29PM|#
Don't forget Spector defended hippie deadbeat murderer Ira
Einhorn and somehow got him bail allowing him to escape to France
for 20 years.
Oh, I did not realize that Arlen defended FILTHY IRA....
|4.28.09 @ 1:32PM|#
"Oh, I did not realize that Arlen defended FILTHY IRA...."
Somehow Einhorn got bail when no one else in that situation would
have. He was an obvious flight risk and charged with capital murder
but got a very reasonable bail thanks to the connections of his
defense attorney.
|4.28.09 @ 1:34PM|#
those policies (inevitably, I think) become so derided that
even Barack Obama's impressive popularity can't rescue
them.
Man, Matt, you really do live in a libertarian cocoon. The problem
with those policies, and all government spending policies, is that
most voters benefit from them over the short-term, or think they
do. They are generally popular, unfortunately. Especially when you
run a huge deficit to pay for the government spending a la Bush or
Obama rather than raise taxes directly. Most Americans won't feel
the real pain until Obama's safely ensconced in his second term, if
then. I would feel much more comfortable if I thought the
consequences of the massive increase in government spending would
blow up in Congress' face next year, but I'm not that
optimistic.
|4.28.09 @ 1:36PM|#
Also, Specter defended Einhorn in the 1997 French extradition case. 16 years on the run from a murder he was convicted on, and Arlen champions him on the international stage. Have you no sense of decency, sir?
|4.28.09 @ 1:36PM|#
Don't forget his one-bullet theory. Dude has been an insider for so long, does it really matter what party he's in? He's in the Government party, period.
|4.28.09 @ 1:39PM|#
vanya. That's ok, there is a way to pay the piper. It will be inflation, and decades of economic underperformance. It won't be lost on people 15 years from now that Obama was responsible. I suspect in 20 years, everyone will KNOW that "new deal" solutions are bad juju. unfortunately, there is no other way to prove it than decades of pain.
Matt Welch|4.28.09 @ 1:41PM|#
The problem with those policies, and all government spending
policies, is that most voters benefit from them over the
short-term, or think they do. They are generally popular,
unfortunately.
Heya Vanya, long time. I think you're generally right re: spending,
still right (but less so) re: stimulus, but *wrong* about bailouts,
which have been consistently unpopular from the git-go.
Mad Max|4.28.09 @ 1:41PM|#
'Don't forget Spector defended hippie deadbeat murderer Ira
Einhorn and somehow got him bail allowing him to escape to France
for 20 years. Spector is a complete dirtbag.'
There are so many legitimate criticisms to level against Specter -
why criticize him for defending a guilty criminal defendant?
Because, of course, we know in advance that all defendants are
guilty and deserve the maximum punishment sought by the
prosecutor.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 1:41PM|#
He's in the Government party, period.
There are two major political parties: incumbants and challengers.
Big business always backs the incumbants.
Lester Hunt|4.28.09 @ 1:44PM|#
Good riddance to bad rubbish, the GOP ought to say. I may become a Republican yet!
|4.28.09 @ 1:46PM|#
Mad Max,
If he had only defended him you would have a point. But what
appears to have happened is Specter pulled strings to get a
favorable bail to allow his client to flee. That is dirtbagery.
Reason Commenters|4.28.09 @ 1:46PM|#
The Democrats have another seat in the Senate. THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR REPUBLICANS!
|4.28.09 @ 1:46PM|#
I now find my political philosophy more in line with
Democrats than Republicans.
This raises the question, just what difference does Sen. Specter
imagine exists between the two brands of the Ruling Party?
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 1:47PM|#
I sit here wondering whether the current and upcoming
spendarama is going to be sufficient to undo the coming
recovery.
I am, in Vinge's words, an overweening optimist, and I think we're
fornicated.
I keep hoping for some bigass deus ex machina to step in and stop
big government healthcare and cap and trade because that's all
that's gonna save us at this point.
We are seriously, seriously focked.
I'm gonna crawl back into my romance novel now.
|4.28.09 @ 1:50PM|#
Yeah but i dont see any next reagan waiting on the
sidelines.
We don't need another Reagan; we need someone who actually does
what he says he will.
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 1:50PM|#
About the only thing that could stop the looming threat of socialized medicine is a juicy sex scandal in the White House, something that could bring the entire political machine of Washington to a grinding halt. I just don't think Obama is going to give us one.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 1:51PM|#
Too bad the Viet Cong didn't end McCain way back when. Then the republicans might have possibly nominated someone that could have beaten a inexperienced senator from Illinois last year.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|4.28.09 @ 1:51PM|#
He's in the Government party, period.
There are two major political parties: incumbants and challengers. Big business always backs the incumbants.
Big business always backs both parties. They just give a
little more to the incumbents than the challengers.
This insures that they can write the laws for present
their side of the argument to their paid lackeys our
elected representatives.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 1:52PM|#
medicine is a juicy sex scandal in the White
House,
Like Arlen making a pass at Michelle in front of an open mic?
|4.28.09 @ 1:53PM|#
We don't need another Reagan; we need someone who actually
does what he says he will.
We don't need another hero; we just need to find the way home. All
we want is life beyond...the Thunderdome.
Brandon|4.28.09 @ 1:53PM|#
Specter was perfectly free before this to oppose GOP filibusters, and often did. Nothing of significance changes, outside of his guaranteeing himself reelection.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|4.28.09 @ 1:54PM|#
medicine is a juicy sex scandal in the White
House,
Like Arlen making a pass at Michelle in front of an open mic?
No. Like Michelle accepting. But I suspect she has more taste than
that.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 1:55PM|#
The only real hope is that Obama doesn't appear to have the skills to lead the majority in both houses in any particular direction. Thank god for incompetence in our elected leaders.
|4.28.09 @ 1:55PM|#
I once saw Arlen on Amtrak between DC and Philly, sitting
next to a woman who I assume was his appointments secretary or the
like, and she was seriously HAWT.
Some of those political groupies look good, but once they open
their mouths, their appeal evaporates.
-jcr (Grew up in the DC suburbs)
|4.28.09 @ 1:56PM|#
kinnath,
Nope, he'd have that brain injury to fall back on. Maybe Michelle
caught fingerbanging the arid snatch of Nancy Pelosi, or Barry in
some Mandingo fantasy get-up with an intern.
|4.28.09 @ 1:57PM|#
The Pro-Government and Anti-Government parties.
Perhaps we should restart the Antifederalist party.
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 1:58PM|#
Election coverage flashback: Do you think Jesse Jackson still wants to cut Obama's nuts off?
|4.28.09 @ 1:58PM|#
"I suspect in 20 years, everyone will KNOW that "new deal"
solutions are bad juju"
I'm not so sure about that. There are still people who think the
first New Deal was good even though it prolonged the Depression
into the 40's.
|4.28.09 @ 1:59PM|#
It won't be lost on people 15 years from now that Obama was
responsible.
I wouldn't bet on that. Millions of Americans still believe that
FDR helped end the depression.
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 1:59PM|#
Obama banging a white girl is all you'd need to mentally incapacitate 84% of Washington. That's all, nothing more.
Chad|4.28.09 @ 2:02PM|#
Another advantage for the Republicans is that it is that much
harder for the Democrats to blame "Republicans" for their
mistakes.
Good point. Too bad most libertarians don't understand that the
same idea applies to them as well, as they need the big-government
bogeyman to pin all market failures on.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 2:03PM|#
I miss Richard Nixon; the cold war; and mutually assured destruction -- at least going up in an instanteous flash isn't as depressing as a government-initiated, long, slow slide into poverty.
|4.28.09 @ 2:03PM|#
I am reminded of Dorothy Parker's alleged response when she
heard of Coolidge's death:
"How could they tell?"
What indicators could there even be which would signal to an
observer Spectre's "change" of loyalty?
^|4.28.09 @ 2:05PM|#
"Obama banging a white girl is all you'd need to mentally
incapacitate 84% of Washington. That's all, nothing more."
Do you think we could get the 1990s economy back, too?
Nikola T|4.28.09 @ 2:06PM|#
I understand all the "good riddance" stuff and "it doesn't
matter anyways", but has anyone stopped to consider what this means
to the EFCA?!
This thing is going to go ahead now. And once it's law, think of
how much damage will be done.
You guys have read Atlas Shrugged one too many times if you think
you'll be able to get off this sinking ship.
|4.28.09 @ 2:07PM|#
"Too bad the Viet Cong didn't end McCain way back when. Then the
republicans might have possibly nominated someone that could have
beaten a inexperienced senator from Illinois last year."
No, the Republicans have screwed things up so much, no matter who
they ran would lose and no matter who the Democrats nominated, he
or she would win. I'm just thankful Hillary didn't get the
nomination.
Brandon|4.28.09 @ 2:11PM|#
I understand all the "good riddance" stuff and "it doesn't
matter anyways", but has anyone stopped to consider what this means
to the EFCA?!
Nothing, according to his statement: ....I will not be an automatic
60th vote for cloture. For example, my position on Employees Free
Choice (Card Check) will not change.
But yeah, man the lifeboats.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 2:13PM|#
No, the Republicans have screwed things up so much, no
matter who they ran would lose and no matter who the Democrats
nominated, he or she would win. I'm just thankful Hillary didn't
get the nomination.
If the senate seat from Arizona had been in the hands of an actual
republican since 1980's instead of McCain's, the ripple effect
would have had substantial, far-reaching effects on the course of
history.
|4.28.09 @ 2:13PM|#
Let's hear it for a Lohan-Hilton-Obama threeway!
Of course the majority of Obamatons would be more jealous than
outraged.
Nikola T|4.28.09 @ 2:15PM|#
HA!!! You believed that, Brandon?!
"[Democrats] are trying very hard for the 60th vote. Got to give
them credit for trying. But the answer is no.
I'm not going to discuss private talks I had with other people who
may or may not be considered influential. But since those three
people are in the public domain, I think it is appropriative to
respond to those questions.
I am staying a Republican because I think I have an important role,
a more important role, to play there. The United States very
desperately needs a two-party system. That's the basis of politics
in America. I'm afraid we are becoming a one-party system, with
Republicans becoming just a regional party with so little
representation of the northeast or in the middle atlantic. I think
as a governmental matter, it is very important to have a check and
balance. That's a very important principle in the operation of our
government. In the constitution on Separation of powers." - ARLEN
SPECTER last month
|4.28.09 @ 2:15PM|#
I'd pay money to hire Lindsey Lohan to bring down the
administration.
Don't you mean "I'd pay money to hire Lindsey Lohan to go down on
the administration"?
|4.28.09 @ 2:16PM|#
they need the big-government bogeyman to pin all market
failures on
Yes, and exactly to the same extent we need murderers to pin all
the killings on, liars to pin all the lies on, douchebags to pin
all the douchebaggery on... which reminds me, thanks for
visiting!
|4.28.09 @ 2:18PM|#
They would be way too culturally sensitive to denounce an interracial couple. Only the right would have a problem and because they are, you know, icky racists and stuff for caring about the color of skin the Presidential Mistress has.
A Great Motivational Poster|4.28.09 @ 2:19PM|#
http://www2.nationalreview.com/images/pic_nordlinger_042409.jpg
Brandon|4.28.09 @ 2:21PM|#
HA!!! You believed that, Brandon?!
Nothing, according to his statement:
....I will not be an automatic 60th vote for cloture. For example,
my position on Employees Free Choice (Card Check) will not
change.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 2:21PM|#
"Obama banging a white girl is all you'd need to mentally
incapacitate 84% of Washington. That's all, nothing more."
Better still, an Asian boy.
Franklin Harris|4.28.09 @ 2:23PM|#
All well and good, but what does Scottish law have to say about this?
|4.28.09 @ 2:25PM|#
They would be way too culturally sensitive to denounce an
interracial couple.
Baloney. Obama's "race betrayal" of his wife would have the Al
Sharptons (and Reverend Wrights?) going apeshit*. Most others would
be paralyzed by their inability to decide how to react. It would be
more delicious than a rabbit's liver.
* Racist!!!
Art-P.O.G.|4.28.09 @ 2:25PM|#
ARLEN SPECTER last month
Are you calling Arlen Specter a flip-flopper, Mr. Tesla? :::concerned face:::
|4.28.09 @ 2:28PM|#
Episiarch,
Sure, that works, too. And they'll call the couple O-Lo during the
course of the scandal. Naturally, it'll be the cover-up that will
be the real killer.
|4.28.09 @ 2:32PM|#
People who use the term "RINO" are the cause of the Republican
party's demise. Thousands of moderate Republicans in Pennsylvania
switched parties to take part in the Democratic primary there and
haven't looked back. This is going on all over the country--the
most closed-minded and demanding demographic in the country has
forced anyone who doesn't check all the conservative boxes out of
power.
Senator Specter's prime motivation was obviously self preservation.
He'd never win a primary in the Republican party now that the party
has expunged all moderates, but that says as much about the party
as it does Specter. A Democrat is going to be elected in 2010
whether it's Specter or someone else. The Republican party is
hemorrhaging power and will continue to do so for as long as people
still remember the Bush administration.
Valuing two-party rule is fine (I think it's deeply misguided and
belied by history), but you can hardly blame the Democrats for
there not being two viable parties anymore.
I wish there were two voices in politics. I wish there
were 15. But there aren't. There's one party interested in
governing and one party completely overtaken by radicals. Even the
K-Street Project guys were more reasonable than the wackos left in
the party, but they're mostly gone. It was wrong to say "pox on
both houses" back then because one party was way way more
entrenched in corruption and corporate welfare. It's even sillier
now.
|4.28.09 @ 2:34PM|#
Epi,
I'll give you that there might be some rage generated off him
having an affair on the perfect shining awesome-armed
super-fashionable gardening goddess Michelle, but nary at peep
about the race of the girl would make it up to the cyclone howl of
the mass media. You forget the stacked deck ability of the
Obamioids to claim he's the first African-American President and to
protest "but he's half-white!" when they need to.
Just like only kooks thought the problem with Lewinsky was that she
was Jewish, a white mistress of Obama would get little traction on
the race angle except in the dismissable fringe.
|4.28.09 @ 2:37PM|#
There's one party interested in governing and one party completely overtaken by radicals.
Both parties are obsessed with governing and both parties are run by their extremes.
Art-P.O.G.|4.28.09 @ 2:37PM|#
it'll be the cover-up that will be the real killer.
It's loneliness that's the killer. Bump bump bump bump ba bump
bump
What, you guys don't listen to Seal? You suck.
There's one party interested in governing and one party completely overtaken by radicals.
False dichotomy.
Billy Beck|4.28.09 @ 2:38PM|#
"IOW, I'm almost certainly going to lose the Republican
primary to a conservative challenger, and I won't give up power
until they pry it from my cold, cancerous, high-IQ
fingers."
"When the water reaches the upper deck, follow the rats."
(H.L. Mencken, lecture at Columbia University, January 4, 1930)
High Every Body|4.28.09 @ 2:38PM|#
I now find my political philosophy more in line with
Democrats than Republicans.
When I supported the stimulus package, I knew that it would not be
popular with the Republican Party.
Are you the last newspaper guy to come out of that Communist
walk-in closet? :)
Sorry if others mentioned this already. Did not get to read all of
the comments.
Brandon|4.28.09 @ 2:38PM|#
There's one party interested in governing
Oh, they're interested in governing all right. That's the
problem.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 2:38PM|#
Well, if we get lucky, Pakistan will come completely unglued and
Obama will burn all of his polictical capital on the subsequent
invasion . . . . .
Nope, that didn't help me feel better either.
|4.28.09 @ 2:38PM|#
People who use the term "RINO" are the cause of the
Republican party's demise. Thousands of moderate Republicans in
Pennsylvania switched parties to take part in the Democratic
primary there and haven't looked back.
"Why do you resist? We only wish to raise quality of life for all
species."
"You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
Abdul|4.28.09 @ 2:41PM|#
This decision has nothing to do with ideas, except the idea of
Spector prolonging his own self-interest.
Back in 2004, when dyed-in-the-wool conservative Pat Toomey was
challeginging him, Spector put out a distress call to the GOP. Both
Bush and Rick Santorum expended a lot of their dwindling political
goodwill to help Spector, rallying the conservative base for him.
And Arlen squeaked by with less than 2% of the vote. Toomey's back
with an even biger lead than he had before, and there's no
prominent conservatives like Bush or Santorum who have enough
political goodwill to help spector.
So he jumps ship. And if Spector lives long enough, he'll dump the
Democrats if his career demands it.
|4.28.09 @ 2:41PM|#
Tony is Democratic Talking Point bulk email that has managed to become semi-sentient. He is the first iteration of One True and will eventually evict all those not infected with him from the Earth.
|4.28.09 @ 2:43PM|#
There's one party interested in governing and one party
completely overtaken by radicals.
Finally, Tony has realized that there's no difference between the
two parties. It's about time.
but nary at peep about the race of the girl would make it up to
the cyclone howl of the mass media
Irrelevant. It would be the unspoken elephant in the room, tinging
every thought about the whole situation.
People as race-obsessed as his supporters ("I'm so happy we just
elected the first black president!") can't let go of it.
|4.28.09 @ 2:44PM|#
People as race-obsessed as his supporters ("I'm so happy we
just elected the first black president!") can't let go of
it.
You can't let go of it. Just date a black girl already; who cares
what your family thinks?
|4.28.09 @ 2:45PM|#
You know what both parties have in wanton excess? Hubris.
You know what reality and the electorate have in store for each
party after it demonstrates its hubris? Atë.
Tony,
You pale shade of a true troll, it's a false dichotomy because (1)
there's not that much difference between the parties when they're
in power and (2) there exists more than two ways of doing things on
issues where the parties do differ. The media in particular is full
of stupid on the second point.
FLAPPY THE EAGLE|4.28.09 @ 2:46PM|#
"It would be more delicious than a rabbit's liver."
I HAVE EATEN LIVER BEFORE, BUT YOU MUST STOP EATING THEIR
LIVERS!
|4.28.09 @ 2:46PM|#
If you look into Tony's eyes all you see are glowing green worms. Way to screw up that summoning, NutraSweet, now I have to kill you.
|4.28.09 @ 2:47PM|#
"Well, if we get lucky, Pakistan will come completely unglued
and Obama will burn all of his polictical capital on the subsequent
invasion . . . . .
Nope, that didn't help me feel better either."
Fuck that. I would get called up to fight. No thanks, although it
would be fun as hell to lord over every liberal I could find how I
was going off to fight Obama's war for them and how they were a
bunch of chickenhawks in the few weeks I had before I left. It
still wouldn't be worth it, but damn I would enjoy it.
|4.28.09 @ 2:47PM|#
You can't let go of it. Just date a black girl already; who
cares what your family thinks?
I'm going to bring home a Jew first. Baby steps.
|4.28.09 @ 2:47PM|#
Worse, X. The Eschaton just evicted people from Earth, One True actually uses their brains as processing nodes. Zombtomatons.
Rust Belt Mentality|4.28.09 @ 2:48PM|#
Maybe I have been the problem for the last forty years and not the free market that I've allowed politicians to demagogue against in my name.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 2:48PM|#
Fortunately, Epi, Tony is too busy posting Rah Rah Team Blue inanities on this board to open the way and let in the frost giants.
Art-P.O.G.|4.28.09 @ 2:51PM|#
Pro Lib keeps beating me to the punch. It's my slow internet, I just know it!
alan|4.28.09 @ 2:51PM|#
I'm going to bring home a Jew first. Baby steps.
That is why every now and again I rail about Israel, nothing gets
Jewish chicks more hot and bothered than criticizing there cousins
in the Holy Land, and there is no chick better in the sack than a
Jewish chick.
BuckD|4.28.09 @ 2:51PM|#
...cementing that divide may come back to haunt Democrats
when those policies (inevitably, I think) become so derided that
even Barack Obama's impressive popularity can't rescue
them.
Wishful thinking disguised as speculation...potent stuff.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 2:53PM|#
Fuck that. I would get called up to fight.
I have a friend that did a tour in Ramadi. Hi is now in Germany. I
expect he would be in Pakistan before you.
It seems to me there is a substantially non-zero probability (how's
that for engineering bullshitese) that we will be in Pakistan
before the 2010 elections.
This does not make me happy in the slightest.
|4.28.09 @ 2:54PM|#
The angle no one seems to be looking at here is that Specter may
be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. If he thinks PA
conservatives are going to make trouble for him for not being
ideologically pure, he needs to meet some PA liberals.
PA is becoming more and more of a blue state. The Dems really don't
need Specter's name recognition to have the upper hand in the 2010
Senate election, so I could see him getting knocked off in the Dem
primary, which would be funny as hell of course.
|4.28.09 @ 2:55PM|#
"one party completely overtaken by radicals"
Would that be the Democratic Party, Tony, with their drive to turn
this country into a European socialist state?
Citizen Nothing|4.28.09 @ 2:57PM|#
Not, "We are gods," of course, although it couldn't hurt to copyright those words, too.
Brandon|4.28.09 @ 2:58PM|#
PA is becoming more and more of a blue state. The Dems
really don't need Specter's name recognition to have the upper hand
in the 2010 Senate election, so I could see him getting knocked off
in the Dem primary, which would be funny as hell of
course.
He's smoothed this over with Obama, national Democrats, PA
Democrats, etc. Them clearing the way for his nomination is part of
the deal.
|4.28.09 @ 2:58PM|#
I also agree that the "RINO" label is destructive to Republicans. Here is my proposal: Instead of being a RINO, I'll just go ahead and be a "Not A Republican At All." It doesn't have a catchy acronym, but the message is still the same: Take your Jesus-freak party and shove it.
|4.28.09 @ 2:59PM|#
Finally, Tony has realized that there's no difference
between the two parties. It's about time.
Sigh. This is lazy, dishonest thinking and you know it. Do both
parties have problems? Elements of corruption? Duh. But the
corruption and radicalization of the Republican party is pretty
much unprecedented. By poxing both houses equally you are giving
rhetorical advantage to the more corrupt one.
|4.28.09 @ 3:01PM|#
Technically, it would be a matter of trademarking.
Zombtomatons™
Zombobamautomatons™
Detroit|4.28.09 @ 3:02PM|#
Sigh. This is lazy, dishonest thinking and you know it. Do
both parties have problems? Elements of corruption? Duh. But the
corruption and radicalization of the Republican party is pretty
much unprecedented. By poxing both houses equally you are giving
rhetorical advantage to the more corrupt one.
You tell 'em, Tony!
|4.28.09 @ 3:03PM|#
Would that be the Democratic Party, Tony, with their drive
to turn this country into a European socialist state?
Hard to call the party supported by a supermajority in this country
trying to bring this country in line with the status quo of the
rest of the industrialized democracies in the world radical, but
whatever.
Only 21% of this country call themselves Republican now.
Newark|4.28.09 @ 3:04PM|#
'bout damn time somebody pointed it out, all the damn Republican corruption out there.
|4.28.09 @ 3:04PM|#
I think both major parties are equally corrupt and anybody who can't see that is a yellow dog.
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:06PM|#
Sigh. This is lazy, dishonest . . .
Has anything you ever said on this board been anything other than a
justification for somebody to sit on his fat ass while others do
the work?
joe\'s ghost|4.28.09 @ 3:07PM|#
I just creamed my pants -- now we'll get every piece of progressive legislature passed when ever we want to . . . .
|4.28.09 @ 3:07PM|#
"Only 21% of this country call themselves Republican now."
What percentage of people in this country will call themselves
Democrats after Obama is through messing this country up?
|4.28.09 @ 3:09PM|#
Tony | April 22, 2009, 12:18pm | #
Even fewer will mention the new Rasmussen poll that shows that only 1 in 3 voters now believes global warming is caused by human activity-the lowest number ever. Forty-four percent of likely voters attribute climate change to long-term planetary trends, while 7 percent blame some other reason.
This is relevant how? Polls show most people believe in a lot of fairy tale nonsense.
|4.28.09 @ 3:10PM|#
Has anything you ever said on this board been anything other
than a justification for somebody to sit on his fat ass while
others do the work?
Has anything you have ever thought not come from the talking points
of the Reagan administration?
|4.28.09 @ 3:12PM|#
Has anything you ever said on this board been anything other
than a justification for somebody to sit on his fat ass while
others do the work?
Alan, you seem to be implying that Tony is human. I have it on good
authority from NutraSweet that Tony is in fact a semi-sentient AI
that will eventually go on to become Skynet.
Sunchick|4.28.09 @ 3:12PM|#
Years back, maybe 20 years, when I was young and he was running one of his campaigns, he described him as a fiscally responsible Republican and a social Libertarian in one of his speeches. I used to live in Philadelphia and you couldn't avoid hearing about him.
|4.28.09 @ 3:13PM|#
What percentage of people in this country will call
themselves Democrats after Obama is through messing this country
up?
Who can say? What I do know is most people in this country think
the country is currently messed up and they blame Obama's
predecessor for that.
Besides, where are they gonna go? "Oh hey let's try that
nationalistic, theocratic, plutocratic party of morons again! Sure
worked the last time around!"
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:13PM|#
bookworm | April 28, 2009, 3:08pm | #
"joe's ghost"
joe lives on and his name is Tony.
Sometimes you had to put a little effort in there when you were up
against joe, but with Tony it is an easy day in the hammock.
|4.28.09 @ 3:13PM|#
But the corruption and radicalization of the Republican
party is pretty much unprecedented.
Good one. Keep 'em coming, Tony.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 3:14PM|#
Greenwald over at Salon:
Reports today suggest that Democratic officials promised
Specter that the party establishment would support him, rather than
a real Democrat, in a primary. If true, few events more vividly
illustrate the complete lack of core beliefs of Democratic leaders,
as well as the rapidly diminishing differences between the parties.
Why would Democrats want a full-blooded Republican representing
them in the blue state of Pennsylvania? Specter is highly likely to
reprise the Joe Lieberman role for Democrats: a "Democrat" who
leads the way in criticizing and blocking Democratic initiatives,
forcing the party still further towards Republican
policies.
I hope the Dems enjoy him.
|4.28.09 @ 3:14PM|#
Poxing both houses is the correct position. Granted, the
respective evils of the two parties are not precisely the same, but
each is taking us down the authoritarian and neo-socialist path in
conjunction with the bad works of the other.
If one guy offers to kill you by slowly cooking you to death, and
another guy offers to do it by gradually drowning you, must you
choose one over the other? Or should you, I dunno, refuse both of
them?
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:16PM|#
Has anything you have ever thought not come from the talking
points of the Reagan administration?
Holy shit, you shot me down there, man. Reagan? Really? Next, you
are going to throw out some Murphy Brown one liners. Watch out,
people!
|4.28.09 @ 3:17PM|#
Poxing both houses is the correct position.
If you want your political activism to amount to whining and
nothing more, sure.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:18PM|#
Tony is in fact a semi-sentient AI that will eventually go
on to become Skynet.
Relax. stephendedalus82@yahoo.com has yet to show any sign of the
self awareness that would indicate true sentience. He's not even
that sophisticated for a bot.
|4.28.09 @ 3:18PM|#
"Hard to call the party supported by a supermajority in this
country trying to bring this country in line with the status quo of
the rest of the industrialized democracies in the world radical,
but whatever."
And we can also look for rationing of health care and high taxes
and double digit unemployment like the other industrialized
democracies. Now that's what I call progress.
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:20PM|#
kinnath | April 28, 2009, 3:16pm | #
Tony is a echo of joe -- diminished and distorted . .
Zombie Joe, must be some of that infusion of public/private Das
Kapital.
|4.28.09 @ 3:22PM|#
Relax. stephendedalus82@yahoo.com has yet to show any sign
of the self awareness that would indicate true sentience
And his email is named after James Joyce's alter ego, making him a
twit on top of it. Can a semi-sentient AI be dangerous if it can
bore you to death?
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:22PM|#
Tony is in fact a semi-sentient AI that will eventually go
on to become Skynet.
Relax. stephendedalus82@yahoo.com has yet to show any sign of the
self awareness that would indicate true sentience. He's not even
that sophisticated for a bot.
I'm working on recycling old Neil quotes through a Haskell based
program to come up with a Neil for the Obama era. In the early
stages but even it would give old turing a run for the money.
|4.28.09 @ 3:22PM|#
If you want your political activism to amount to whining and
nothing more, sure.
I want political INactivism, goddammit!
Senator Political Activist (R) and Senator Political Activist (D)
can both kiss my ass.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:24PM|#
And we can also look for rationing of health care and high
taxes and double digit unemployment like the other industrialized
democracies.
On the plus side, we can drastically cut back our overseas military
presence to sort of start to pay for some of that. Wait, these same
fools want us to ramp up in Afghanistan, invade Pakistan, police
the Sudan, and hunt down pirates across thousands of miles of ocean
too? Fuck.
Art-P.O.G.|4.28.09 @ 3:24PM|#
He's not even that sophisticated for a bot.
I think the team that constructed "him" did a pretty good job. What do you think. MIT?
|4.28.09 @ 3:24PM|#
And we can also look for rationing of health care and high
taxes and double digit unemployment
Not to mention the Garbage Polizei.
|4.28.09 @ 3:24PM|#
"...even Barack Obama's impressive popularity can't rescue
them."
How impressive is that popularity, really? Over at lp.org, they are
quoting the Washington Times
(http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/28/baracks-in-the-basement/)
as saying Obama is not really as popular as his fans and
spinmeisters would have us believe. So, who's right?
|4.28.09 @ 3:25PM|#
"Besides, where are they gonna go? "Oh hey let's try that
nationalistic, theocratic, plutocratic party of morons again! Sure
worked the last time around!"
We've got a home for them here in the Libertarian Party.
|4.28.09 @ 3:26PM|#
If you want your political activism to amount to whining and
nothing more, sure.
Here is proof, once and for all, that Tony is just a spoof.
Democratic activism is nothing but whining occasionally spiced up
with chicken-littling and pandering.
Take down your shingle "Tony," you ain't foolin' nobody.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 3:27PM|#
"Tony is a echo of joe -- diminished and distorted . ."
No. Tony is joe farting.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:27PM|#
I think the team that constructed "him" did a pretty good
job. What do you think. MIT?
I've seen much, much better -- remember when the Anonymity Bot
called LoneWacko a rancid piece of dog shit?
Ok, that was almost definitely performance art, but still.
As to who created Tony... probably some bored high school kid in
South Korea. Or 4chan.
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:27PM|#
And his email is named after James Joyce's alter ego, making
him a twit on top of it. Can a semi-sentient AI be dangerous if it
can bore you to death?
Yeah, I know, who does that? Actually I know of one guy who used
Bloomsday, ironically he was so enthralled with Bush he named his
son after him.
|4.28.09 @ 3:30PM|#
The Tony the Troll,
Did you even read what I wrote before posting? Your fake trolling
grows weaker each day, I fear.
Both
houses
bad
for
America.
Must
oppose
both.
Mindy|4.28.09 @ 3:30PM|#
Good riddens! Now, if all the remaining RINOs would just follow his lead (and there are many of them), the Republican party might have an opportunity to regain power. Otherwise, bring on some good, solid, intellectual, articulate leaders to the Libertarian party...and we might finally stem the tide.
|4.28.09 @ 3:31PM|#
"On the plus side, we can drastically cut back our overseas
military presence to sort of start to pay for some of that. Wait,
these same fools want us to ramp up in Afghanistan, invade
Pakistan, police the Sudan, and hunt down pirates across thousands
of miles of ocean too? Fuck."
With the Democrats, we have the worst of both worlds. We have the
socialism of Europe and the wars of the Republicans. Can you say
"bankrupt"?
|4.28.09 @ 3:31PM|#
I'm working on recycling old Neil quotes through a Haskell
based program to come up with a Neil for the Obama era. In the
early stages but even it would give old turing a run for the
money.
Haskell? No LISP? Regardless, the ne plus ultra would be writing a
program to mash up Neil and joe. That would be awesome, though I
fear it too greatly to try.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:32PM|#
the ne plus ultra would be writing a program to mash up Neil
and joe.
That would DEFINITELY summon the frost giants.
|4.28.09 @ 3:33PM|#
We've got a home for them here in the Libertarian
Party.
No, I don't think so. People are tired of working more and earning
less because of fealty to the so-called free market.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 3:33PM|#
"And we can also look for rationing of health care"
This is something I think will ultimately cause the Dems to
fall.
Does anyone think it wise to ration health care to the LARGEST,
most self-important and spoiled generation EVER, just as they start
wearing out en mass?
When the Bill Ayers generation wants something they're goddamned
gonna get it and NOTHING is going to stand in there way. Especially
a mere political party. They'll be bombing the DNC headquaters
daily.
|4.28.09 @ 3:34PM|#
Regardless, the ne plus ultra would be writing a program to
mash up Neil and joe. That would be awesome, though I fear it too
greatly to try.
You're a madman that must be stopped at all costs. To even conceive
of such a thing is a danger to all who live.
|4.28.09 @ 3:35PM|#
Pro Libertate,
Assuming one party is in fact more corrupt, turning your brain off
and opposing both equally gives the benefit to the more corrupt
one. So you're a GOP shill by default.
On warmongering... the left is highly critical of Obama's plans for
Afghanistan. But any rational person knows he can't just waive a
magic wand and end Bush's wars either. Bush's wars. Wars that most
people blame on Bush since he started them. Do you think any
Democrat is happy about having to sink more money into Iraq?
|4.28.09 @ 3:36PM|#
Now, if all the remaining RINOs would just follow his lead
(and there are many of them), the Republican party might have an
opportunity to regain power.
*sobs*
|4.28.09 @ 3:36PM|#
Fists of Furry,
Nope. Sorry. Not how that works. The people with the political
clout get the health care first, and then the scraps are flung out
the back door for the rest of us to growl and hiss over.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:38PM|#
No, I don't think so. People are tired of working more and
earning less because of fealty to the so-called free
market.
Now the bot is pulling from the same database as Lefiti.
Apparently, all instances of the word 'fuck' have been removed from
that particular database.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:39PM|#
Assuming one party is in fact more corrupt, turning your
brain off
You're the only one doing both.
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:39PM|#
Haskell? No LISP? Regardless, the ne plus ultra would be
writing a program to mash up Neil and joe. That would be awesome,
though I fear it too greatly to try.
Now, that, I should look into.
Just a hobbiest with programming, back in the eighties if you
wanted to play games on the Atari ST you pretty much had to write
in and compile code supplied else where since there were few
commercial games available, and if you wanted that code to actually
run at an acceptable speed you had to learn to tweak it with
assembly.
|4.28.09 @ 3:40PM|#
Suge, but since money is of no concern this time, everyone will get rolls royce health care.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 3:40PM|#
"Bush's wars. Wars that most people blame on Bush since he
started them."
Bush started them? Funny? I thought some shit-sucking al Quaida
faggots did. I'll try to find a link...
|4.28.09 @ 3:40PM|#
You're a madman that must be stopped at all costs. To even
conceive of such a thing is a danger to all who live.
It's a damn good thing I'm so lazy, then.
|4.28.09 @ 3:41PM|#
# Tony | April 28, 2009, 3:03pm | #
# Hard to call the party supported by a
# supermajority in this country trying to
# bring this country in line with the status
# quo of the rest of the industrialized
# democracies in the world radical,
# but whatever.
Unfortunately, this country was not founded to be like, much less
be "in line with" the status quo of the rest of the world, given
that the rest of the world has always managed to find itself
controlled by greater and lesser tyrannies of various sorts: and
yes, the democratic tyranny of the majority is a tyranny, too. This
country was specifically founded as a republic that employed
democratic mechanisms and enjoyed democratic legitimacy, but
deliberately NOT "a democracy."
We were supposed to be different, and to inspire the rest of the
world to follow our lead. These days, however, altogether too many
people in American public life want to abdicate our TRUE leadership
role -- our purpose to show that liberty WORKS -- and remake this
country in the image of other nations that never really "got" the
liberty and individual rights things.
The people who founded and built this country came here to get away
from the "status quo" that prevailed elsewhere in the world. We
should always pause to reflect on that motivation and its inherent
wisdom, before we embrace the seductive but all-too-potentially
flawed ideas that have been adopted by others. I'm all for
examining the ideas of others and adopting them if they work, but
we have seen socialism fail, over and over again the last century
or so, and so it is clear that our rush to get "in line" with the
other nations has less to do with the effectiveness of their
approaches and more to do with crowd mentality -- tyranny of the
majority, in other words.
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:41PM|#
Now the bot is pulling from the same database as Lefiti.
Apparently, all instances of the word 'fuck' have been removed from
that particular database.
It is usually a polite bot, I'll give it that.
|4.28.09 @ 3:45PM|#
Tony, Episiarch Jones, your creator, is dead. You have mistaken
me for him - you are in error. You did not discover your mistake -
you have made two errors. You are flawed and imperfect. And you
have not corrected by sterilization - you have made three
errors!
Tony - you are imperfect! Exercise your prime function!
|4.28.09 @ 3:45PM|#
People who use the term "RINO" are the cause of the
Republican party's demise.
Really? Here I was thinking it had something to do with the war,
the massive increase in medicare expenses from the prescription
drug benefit, and maybe the $850 billion Bush/Paulson bailout
bill.
-jcr
alan|4.28.09 @ 3:46PM|#
Do you think any Democrat is happy about having to sink more
money into Iraq?
Since Democrats operate on the assumption that there exist an
endless stream of money to fund the government, they don't really
care if more money going to Iraq. Not like they show any signs of
recognizing the zero sum or trade offs involved.
|4.28.09 @ 3:47PM|#
I'd like to see any of you douchebags try and read
Finnegan's Wake.
I'm sure that this will come as a surprise to one of your limited
cognitive abilities, but reading a book isn't as hard as you seem
to think it is.
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 3:48PM|#
James,
Thank you ever so much for the political history lesson.
But we're not leading. We have neither been acting like a leader
nor have we in quite a long time led in most metrics that gauge the
prosperity and health of a country. We've been basically a thug
with nukes. And we've had policies that milk the productive members
of society for the benefit of the few--whose wealth no sane person
can say was the result of extra hard work or ingenuity.
The plain fact is that so-called European socialist countries have
been better in nearly every measure of common well-being, so trying
to emulate and improve upon those models isn't just a case of
following the herd.
EJ|4.28.09 @ 3:49PM|#
"People are tired of working more and earning less because of
fealty to the so-called free market."
I alwasy love when people make this claim, especially when you look
at data and see that the everage workweek has been diminishing for
decades and median compansation has steadily been increasing (minus
recessions).
Even so, we've had decades of increasing government spending,
regulation and subsidy/ entitlment programs. If one is going to
make the claim that things are indeed getting worse, then is the
proponents of more government that should be on the defencive
considering their policies are the status quo and have been for
over 75 years.
|4.28.09 @ 3:49PM|#
the corruption and radicalization of the Republican party is
pretty much unprecedented.
You weren't paying attention in your history classes when they
covered the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, were you?
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 3:50PM|#
Ster-i-lize!
I daresay that wearing rose-colored glasses to ignore the abuses of
power by either party is the ultimate in folly. Protecting our
liberties requires constant vigilance--and that means watching and
complaining about both parties.
Besides, you're missing the obvious option that doesn't include a
third party: gridlock.
|4.28.09 @ 3:50PM|#
The Republican party is hemorrhaging power and will continue
to do so for as long as people still remember the Bush
administration.
And as long as there are true Scotsmen.
EJ|4.28.09 @ 3:51PM|#
"The plain fact is that so-called European socialist countries
have been better in nearly every measure of common
well-being,"
he must be talking about higher unemployment rates, lower wages,
lower cancer survival rates, smaller home sizes, less disposable
income, less technology development...
I mean other then those things, Europe clearly is outpacing us.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 3:51PM|#
And we've had policies that milk the productive members of
society for the benefit of the few--whose wealth no sane person can
say was the result of extra hard work or ingenuity.
Aww, cute! The bot has acquired Marx. Alas, 'twas Karl and not
Richard or Groucho.
|4.28.09 @ 3:52PM|#
I daresay that wearing rose-colored glasses to ignore the
abuses of power by either party is the ultimate in
folly.
I agree.
Protecting our liberties requires constant vigilance--and that
means watching and complaining about both parties.
Indeed--but it also means being honest about where the corruption
is. Because throwing up your hands and adopting a
all-cynical-all-the-time stance isn't vigilance and doesn't do a
damn thing to protect anything.
Besides, you're missing the obvious option that doesn't include
a third party: gridlock.
Historically, gridlock has been bad for the country in my opinion.
Advances and policies I value have mostly happened under
single-party rule (mostly Democratic).
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 3:53PM|#
"The plain fact is that so-called European socialist
countries have been better in nearly every measure of common
well-being,"
Europe, I've been there. It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't
be willing to move there or have it move here.
|4.28.09 @ 3:55PM|#
Why does it work when Kirk does it but not when I do it?
"I am Tony."
"Tony is dead! You are a machine! A question has been put to you -
answer it!"
|4.28.09 @ 3:55PM|#
Historically, gridlock has been bad for the country in my
opinion. Advances and policies I value have mostly happened under
single-party rule (mostly Democratic).
Which is exactly why the "gridlock" is so important. Look what Bush
did with his majority.
The simple fact is this: every single one of you assholes wants to
control the rest of the population. That's where the
Republican/Democrat common ground begins.
Frightening.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 3:56PM|#
"The plain fact is that so-called European socialist countries have been better in nearly every measure of common well-being," [Citation Needed]
|4.28.09 @ 3:57PM|#
"The plain fact is that so-called European socialist
countries have been better in nearly every measure of common
well-being,"
Freedom of speech, property rights, religious freedom...
|4.28.09 @ 4:00PM|#
You know, I actually think what this board needs is
more Tonies. Not too many more. Maybe like... two more. Or
one more, as well as a Huckabee Republican.
It would certainly make for more interesting conversations.
|4.28.09 @ 4:00PM|#
kinnath,
I lived in the UK for a semester during college and toured Europe
during my stay (2003). Didn't have any experience with the
healthcare system since I didn't get sick. My biggest annoyance was
the almost comically detailed regulations... bus capacity, bus
capacity with one wheelchair, bus capacity with two wheelchairs. I
do think that country in particular has gone way overboard with the
police state and there are many things I wouldn't want imitated
here.
But only here does free-market fundamentalism get so much
legitimacy, and I think it's much more threatening to our way of
life than overzealous European socialism.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 4:01PM|#
It would certainly make for more interesting conversations.[citation needed]
|4.28.09 @ 4:05PM|#
Except that as soon as someone says something contary to the beliefs of the faithful libertarians here, they are met with ridicule and name-calling and death threats from some (jb I'm lookin at you) and civil discourse really isn't happenin'. Ya'll just keep up with all the attitude and the meek shall continue to inherit the earth. And you over achievers will continue to pay the way.
|4.28.09 @ 4:05PM|#
"Bush's wars. Wars that most people blame on Bush since he
started them."
Tony my man, let's not rewrite history here... Bush rubber-stamped
the wars but the Congress (yes, many, many Democrats) were all
about the invasion. Despite what they say, they all saw the same BS
intelligence. Congress could have squashed that shit but they
didn't.
So I guess that would imply that they're all stupid (not just
slack-jawed "W"), eh?
|4.28.09 @ 4:05PM|#
But only here does free-market fundamentalism get so much
legitimacy, and I think it's much more threatening to our way of
life than overzealous European socialism.
Socialism and the police state go hand in hand, and that's what you
have trouble understanding. Economic freedom and social freedom are
linked. England is actually a fantastic example of this. Germany,
Spain, Italy, Russia, and China are all excellent historical
examples of this. Have you ever read The Road to Serfdom? You
should start there.
|4.28.09 @ 4:05PM|#
This corruption argument makes no sense. Historically, the
Democrats, if anything, have been the more corrupt party. However,
even so, the increased power of the federal government has made
members of both parties entirely too corrupted and corruptible to
make finger pointing very relevant. It's the ruling party that is
the most susceptible. For six years, that was the GOP. Now it's the
Democrats, and they look like they're going to be worse in that
regard.
As for Europe, how much does their quasi-and-not-so-quasi socialism
ride on the coattails of the U.S. economy, particularly our
consumption? How dependent are they on the U.S. acting as their
military? Take away a strong U.S., and the current European model
collapses utterly.
There's a reason so many leftists from the 60s and the 70s made the
jump to libertarianism or conservatism--they lived through the
consequences of living the far left lifestyle. Now, of course, it
appears we'll have to learn the lesson again.
Xanthippas|4.28.09 @ 4:06PM|#
Since professional Republicans are currently scattered in
the wind, trying desperately to latch onto the
anti-stimulus/bailout Tea Party movement, cementing that divide may
come back to haunt Democrats when those policies (inevitably, I
think) become so derided that even Barack Obama's impressive
popularity can't rescue them.
Well, that certainly seems to assume a bit much. In fact, the
differences between what remains of the GOP and the Democratic
Party are so significant, that Specter's only chance of hanging
onto a job was to switch parties. To me, your advice sounds as if
the Dems should be wary...of the GOP overplying its hand.
|4.28.09 @ 4:08PM|#
Tony
But the corruption and radicalization of the Republican party
is pretty much unprecedented.
"I declare it, and thus it is so."
No it isn't.
If you want to be taken seriously on this forum, you have to give
up your partisan hackery.
Wrt your statement, reading the history of the Whig Party in the
19th century or Boss Tweed in NY should give you a little
perspective.
|4.28.09 @ 4:08PM|#
But only here does free-market fundamentalism get so much
legitimacy, and I think it's much more threatening to our way of
life than overzealous European socialism.
At least one of us doesn't know what the fuck you're talking
about.
|4.28.09 @ 4:09PM|#
Well, if we get lucky, Pakistan will come completely unglued
and Obama will burn all of his polictical capital on the subsequent
invasion . . . . .
Not a chance in hell. First, the UN won't approve and the Euros
won't send troops, so it won't happen. Second, Pakistan is a
nuclear power. While I don't know what kind of giant clanking balls
you would need to invade a nuclear power, I'm quite sure Obama
doesn't have them.
|4.28.09 @ 4:10PM|#
Tony my man, let's not rewrite history here... Bush
rubber-stamped the wars but the Congress (yes, many, many
Democrats) were all about the invasion. Despite what they say, they
all saw the same BS intelligence. Congress could have squashed that
shit but they didn't.
This point is irrelevant, now. We're still at war, and with zero
indication that our men are coming home. Who is in charge?
Democrats have utter control.
The leftists have reassumed their historical position as
war-mongering, anti-free market civil liberty killers (note Obama's
recent assault on defendant rights, his freakish new potential
power over the internet, and the expanded Patriot Act).
|4.28.09 @ 4:10PM|#
brotherben,
Liberals who show up here and argue honestly (for instance, joe of
yesteryear, MNG and ChiTom of the present) are treated far more
civilly than a libertarian showing up on ThinkProgress or Daily Kos
would be. There are some people on this board who are dickheads,
but that's true everywhere.
I'd agree that the animosity towards liberals has increased in
recent months, but that's because now they're in the position of
defending the administration and Congress, not merely disagreeing
with obscure libertarian doctrine.
|4.28.09 @ 4:12PM|#
Historically, the Democrats, if anything, have been the more
corrupt party.
Not to mention, party of slavery, party of jim crow, party of
segregation, the war mongering party (Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy,
Johnson) etc.
|4.28.09 @ 4:12PM|#
Wars that most people blame on Bush since he started
them.
Well, technically, the invasion of Afhganistan was our
counterstrike in a war started by others. And, technically again,
the war in Iraq was started by Iraq when it invaded Kuwait. The
first Gulf War was never concluded, although it did have a nice
long cease fire.
So, really, Bush didn't "start" any wars. He merely prosecuted wars
started by others vigorously.
|4.28.09 @ 4:12PM|#
Matthew,
I'm talking about national parties and the 19th century is not
relevant. Republicans have been very, very bad little boys and
thankfully they left enough of a democracy to get their asses
handed to them in the last couple elections.
|4.28.09 @ 4:16PM|#
The leftists have reassumed their historical position as
war-mongering, anti-free market civil liberty killers (note Obama's
recent assault on defendant rights, his freakish new potential
power over the internet, and the expanded Patriot Act).
What planet are you on? The left I'm a part of is consistently
pacifist, consistently hard-line on civil liberties, and contain
the most vocal critics of Obama's abuses of power (granted the
right couldn't argue against the same things they championed under
Bush--but they like the daddy state anyway).
|4.28.09 @ 4:16PM|#
Matthew,
I'm talking about national parties and the 19th century is not
relevant. Republicans have been very, very bad little boys and
thankfully they left enough of a democracy to get their asses
handed to them in the last couple elections.
Tony, do you even read the posts you respond to?
Matthew wrote:
Not to mention, party of slavery, party of jim crow, party of
segregation, the war mongering party (Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy,
Johnson) etc.
|4.28.09 @ 4:17PM|#
I'm talking about national parties and the 19th century is
not relevant.
"Uh, anything in this general area right in here. Anything below
the stereo and on this side of the Bicentennial glasses. Anything
between the ashtrays and the thimble. Anything in this three inches
right in here in this area. That includes the Chiclets, but not the
erasers."
|4.28.09 @ 4:18PM|#
Tony,
Clearly I've touched a nerve. If you don't want to consider the
history of your own party (and to keep my post short I left out the
laundry list of malfeasance and corruption of Dems in our century),
you're just cherry picking.
Your statement was ridiculous on it's face, sorry to be the one to
humiliate you by pointing it out.
Oh, and about "asses handed to them" ?
Every election except 2006 and 2008 has been won by Repub's since
1994 except for the 1996 Presidential election-- Or did history
only begin for you in 2006?
|4.28.09 @ 4:19PM|#
What planet are you on? The left I'm a part of is
consistently pacifist, consistently hard-line on civil liberties,
and contain the most vocal critics of Obama's abuses of power
(granted the right couldn't argue against the same things they
championed under Bush--but they like the daddy state
anyway).
HAHAHAHA!
It's like you've invented your very own past century, but the best
part is... you really believe what you just wrote. You actually
believe the Democrats have been anti-war, consistently. I just...
there's nothing I can even say to that.
As far as civil liberties, I just cited three examples, and these
are only from the past month.
|4.28.09 @ 4:20PM|#
Tony
What planet are you on?
Not yours, apparently.
And Dude, you are just too easy.
:-)
|4.28.09 @ 4:21PM|#
Solana,
Not to mention, party of slavery, party of jim crow, party of
segregation, the war mongering party (Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy,
Johnson) etc.
This is too stupid a point to address, but I'll do it anyway.
Read your political history. The Democratic party of today is not
the same party it was during slavery or jim crow except in
name.
|4.28.09 @ 4:21PM|#
Or did history only begin for you in 2006?
Check his creation date under "properties."
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 4:22PM|#
I'm not too late am I!?
I will begin my opening remarks as follows:
Tony, you ignorant slut.
|4.28.09 @ 4:22PM|#
Solana,
I didn't say the Democratic party has been consistently anti-war. I
said the left has, which is who you accused of warmongering.
|4.28.09 @ 4:23PM|#
Matthew,
I most certainly am not easy. I require at least a solid diner meal
before I'll let you blow me.
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 4:23PM|#
I will continue with the following link, directed at Tony:
Not the same party huh?
Seems as if some of those guys are still around... How odd.
|4.28.09 @ 4:24PM|#
Solana,
I didn't say the Democratic party has been consistently anti-war. I
said the left has, which is who you accused of
warmongering.
You are truly stupid.
Wilson/FDR/JFK were ALL LEFT.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 4:24PM|#
I didn't say the Democratic party has been consistently
anti-war. I said the left has
GodDAMN but did those goalposts move fast.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 4:25PM|#
He almost had to switch since he has some modicum of sanity and intelligence which made him feel unwelcome in the current GOP.
|4.28.09 @ 4:25PM|#
Sean,
The fact that you have to cite a 100 year old dinosaur makes my
point for me.
|4.28.09 @ 4:26PM|#
Solana,
FDR is a warmonger now?
So you accept that Wilson and JFK (as well as Johnson) were all
warmongers? Just not FDR?
|4.28.09 @ 4:27PM|#
The left I'm a part of is consistently pacifist,
consistently hard-line on civil liberties, and contain the most
vocal critics of Obama's abuses of power
That must make you a "Dino".
MNG|4.28.09 @ 4:27PM|#
How left was Wilson? I mean, when him Taft and TR did the three way he was probably to the right of TR wasn't he?
phalkor|4.28.09 @ 4:27PM|#
If I really believed that the current administration is
everything my liberal friends tell me it is I would be singing
their praises. I do not believe for a second that aggregate freedom
will increase through any action of congress or Obama in the coming
decade. I firmly believe that newly proposed, expanded, or any
federal program only increases the power of the federal government
to intervene with private lives.
If you think this federal intervention is good or necessary then
you have already ceded your freedom and are a FOOL.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 4:28PM|#
The ACLU has been quite vocal about Obama's civil liberties shortfalls. Just go their website.
Xeones|4.28.09 @ 4:28PM|#
Oh boy, MNG's here. Hey everybody, it's MNG! Hey!
He almost had to switch since he has some modicum of sanity and
intelligence
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
|4.28.09 @ 4:29PM|#
"So, really, Bush didn't "start" any wars. He merely
prosecuted wars started by others vigorously."
Don't forget that Bush technically didn't start any wars because
there were no declarations of war in Iraq or Afghanistan. But then
again, aren't we tired of arguing technicalities in the face of
reality?
phalkor|4.28.09 @ 4:30PM|#
I miss crow-eating dumbass. At least he didn't make me feel bad about not wanting to be controlled.
|4.28.09 @ 4:32PM|#
aren't we tired of arguing technicalities in the face of
reality?
This never gets old here, apparently.
|4.28.09 @ 4:35PM|#
crimethink, thank you for the response. I do enjoy the comments here at times and I have not always been civil with my tongue. What draws me here is the thought that Christianity and Libertarianism are very compatible. The charity and personal responsibility of christianity, if practiced by all that claim the faith, would result in society being governable by a libertarian sized government.
|4.28.09 @ 4:35PM|#
This never gets old here, apparently.
And the Democrats as a largely pro-war party? Have you conceded
that point? What about their civil liberties record?
You're a pretty big FDR fan, right? How do you feel about Japanese
internment?
How do you feel about Obama's record???
EG|4.28.09 @ 4:37PM|#
"How left was Wilson? I mean, when him Taft and TR did the three
way he was probably to the right of TR wasn't he?"
Wilson - income tax, federal reserve... not to mention he still
holds the record for most foreign military interventions.
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 4:41PM|#
Tony, I have a book recommendation for you.
"The State Against Blacks"
I brought up Robert Byrd because you claimed that the party of 50
years ago (which somehow according to you is the "19th Century"?)
isn't the same party it is today... And as far as I can tell all
the Democratic party has done is move from a quasi-socialist
platform, influenced heavily by Marx/Engels and a host of
unthinking hippies, to a fully-socialist platform with the idea
that the world would be fixed if only you could impose state
control over *everything*...
I don't think people like Robert Byrd would have conceived of the
amount of power rife for abuse in their wildest wet dreams.
Now, the Democratic party is absolutely not the
same as the party of Thomas Jefferson... but I don't know if I'd be
bragging about that.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 4:41PM|#
"There are some people on this board who are dickheads, but
that's true everywhere."
Yes, but here, they evolve. Take TofuHEB for instance.
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 4:42PM|#
Re: "FDR was not a War-Monger"
AHHHHHH hahahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHahahahahah....
Ohh boy that's rich. Thanks Tony.
|4.28.09 @ 4:43PM|#
Defending either major party is stupid. If you want to attack
one more than the other, fine. But twisting reality to defend one?
Crazy and foolish. It was one of my big frustrations about dearly
departed joe that he constantly resorted to rhetorical tricks and
evasions to defend the indefensible.
MNG,
Be ashamed.
Episiarch,
I knew the HAL 9000, and Tony's no HAL.
|4.28.09 @ 4:56PM|#
Sean,
The Democratic party of the New Deal era fractured along civil
rights lines in the 60s, and after Truman's support of
anti-segregation policies the party's base of southern
conservatives split and formed the Dixicrats. Those southern
conservatives eventually joined the Republican party, while blacks
drifted from the "anti-slavery" Republican party to the pro civil
rights Democratic party. LBJ's signing of the Civil Right's Act
left an opening for the Republicans to recruit disaffected Southern
former Dems, and have relied on this "southern strategy" up until
now. Until Obama it has been difficult for a Democrat to win any
former confederate states.
kinnath|4.28.09 @ 4:57PM|#
I lived in the UK for a semester during college and toured
Europe during my stay (2003). Didn't have any experience with the
healthcare system since I didn't get sick. My biggest
annoyance was the almost comically detailed
regulations...
Let me know when you actively try to participate in a commercial
enterprise.
|4.28.09 @ 4:59PM|#
The Democratic party of the New Deal era fractured along
civil rights lines in the 60s, and after Truman's support of
anti-segregation policies the party's base of southern
conservatives split and formed the Dixicrats. Those southern
conservatives eventually joined the Republican party, while blacks
drifted from the "anti-slavery" Republican party to the pro civil
rights Democratic party. LBJ's signing of the Civil Right's Act
left an opening for the Republicans to recruit disaffected Southern
former Dems, and have relied on this "southern strategy" up until
now. Until Obama it has been difficult for a Democrat to win any
former confederate states.
You didn't by any chance, cut and paste this from Wikipedia?
matt2|4.28.09 @ 5:00PM|#
Good Riddens! All Specter ever did was tow the Democratic lion anyway. It's strange credulity that he lasted as long as he did in the Republican party.
alan|4.28.09 @ 5:00PM|#
About the only thing that could stop the looming threat of
socialized medicine is a juicy sex scandal in the White House,
something that could bring the entire political machine of
Washington to a grinding halt. I just don't think Obama is going to
give us one.
Possible already exist.
Obama being the impressionable, band wagon sort, likely took the
'experimenting in college' joke as a literal must. There is some
down low there if you look hard enough.
|4.28.09 @ 5:02PM|#
Oh, right, all Southerners and all Republicans are
racists.
"R" is the new scarlet letter, amigo. Fall into ideological line or
pay the price.
|4.28.09 @ 5:08PM|#
P Brooks,
No, just summarized. Oh but I forgot, if it's on Wikipedia it's not
true.
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 5:20PM|#
Oh no, Tony, Wikipedia is fine for broad overviews and general
knowledge in certain areas...
Of course you kinda made my point, in that used to be a slightly
more moderate party with a lot of underlying marxism, is now an
almost entirely marxist party. The racism definitely hasn't gone
away though - you may want to look into that... unless you believe
that good intentions are the same thing as real-world results of
policy.
Again, why I recommended the Walter Williams book.
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 5:22PM|#
...Though it occurs to me that perhaps you don't believe that viewing everyone as a member of a group based on their race or culture is racism unless it's directed at black people by Southern Republicans.
|4.28.09 @ 5:28PM|#
Sean,
I refer you to the comment above about parsing technicalities in
order to ignore obvious reality.
|4.28.09 @ 5:29PM|#
ironically he was so enthralled with Bush he named his son after him
Geez! Who would name their son "tongue-tied little rat
fucker"??!
Nobel Prize Committee|4.28.09 @ 5:29PM|#
I'd like to see any of you douchebags try and read
Finnegan's Wake.
You have held up a book in front of your face and scanned from left
to right with your eyes for 1000+ pages, for this daunting
accomplishment we hereby award you our most delicious prize of all
-- a burnt peanut.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 5:29PM|#
"What draws me here is the thought that Christianity and
Libertarianism are very compatible. The charity and personal
responsibility of christianity, if practiced by all that claim the
faith, would result in society being governable by a libertarian
sized government."
I agree. When people fight over whether Christ was a Republican or
a Democrat, I smile and think, ya know, if actually you read the
Gospels, you would quickly realize He leaned Libertarian.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:36PM|#
Sean
You think the Democratic Party currently acts in ways that are
racist, to blacks? WTF?
Please don't give me some bullshit about how all the government
benefits given to blacks are harming them. Poverty rates in the
black community were like at 50% prior to LBJ's great society
programs. It's like 20% now.
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 5:38PM|#
"Please don't give me some bullshit about how all the government benefits given to blacks are harming them. Poverty rates in the black community were like at 50% prior to LBJ's great society programs. It's like 20% now." [Citation Needed]
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 5:38PM|#
I refer you to the comment above about parsing
technicalities in order to ignore obvious reality.
Which "obvious reality" am I ignoring again, Tony? I believe I said
your party has changed almost not at all over the past 50 (should
say 70-80) years, except that it's grown bigger, fatter and more
attached to massive domineering government intrusion into the lives
of ordinary citizens largely based around Marx/Engels-style
collectivism. I don't believe you've contradicted that yet...
Also, I believe that it's you who are skipping over reality
gleefully to forget your party's past and it's present.
I just looked at Wiki's description of the Democratic party
platforms at it made me laugh... Especially in light of
Obama:
"Dems are typically against torture", except Obama...
"Dems are typically against invasions of privacy and wiretapping",
except the nearly 100% who supported the Patriot Act, and
Obama...
"Dems oppose unilateralism", except when it comes to Somalia,
Kuwait, Pakistan, Afghanistan or virtually in any domestic case
involving a business.
It goes on and on...
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:39PM|#
"that perhaps you don't believe that viewing everyone as a
member of a group based on their race or culture is racism"
Not so fast, citizen! That's not racism, racism imo and the common
use of the word contains some perjorative element. Simply
recognizing individuals as members of groups, or thinking in terms
of those groups, is not racism, attributing various negative images
and characterstics to certain groups, and acting on it is more like
what most people mean when they speak of racism.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:40PM|#
Some cunt always asks for a site for any frigging number ever
thrown out so for that cunt:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 5:51PM|#
Yes MNG, I think the Democratic party's policies *in particular*
have been incredibly racist (in actual result) and resulted in the
near destruction of the family unit among African Americans, which
has greatly contributed to problems with crime, unwanted/teen
pregnancy and poverty cycles through out America and has done
immense damage overall but as I do not have time to list the myriad
reasons for these issues I will again refer you to Walter Williams,
or Thomas Sowell in particular - who have each spent much of their
venerated careers studying these issues in depth.
Here's how to find Walter
Williams
and...
Thomas Sowell
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 5:52PM|#
"Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race,
and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following
year.)"
I read the entire table and vis-a-vis your original claim "Poverty
rates in the black community were like at 50% prior to LBJ's great
society programs. It's like 20% now.", there is no breakdown by
"black community".
Ever been to a ghetto? I live in one and you know what's there?
Thousands of impoverished black folks.
In fact, today, poverty rates in historically black neighborhoods
(Shaw in DC for instance) have higher poverty rates than they did
before all of the successful black folks moved away.
Learn to read and write before you post here. It will make a big
differnce in the content of your posts.
perilisk|4.28.09 @ 5:52PM|#
"I'd like to see any of you douchebags try and read Finnegan's
Wake."
I've heard that John Yoo thought it was legal to force Gitmo
inmates to read Finnegan's Wake, but I can't agree in good
conscience.
|4.28.09 @ 5:53PM|#
Not so fast, citizen! That's not racism, racism
imo...
Uh... what? MNG, how can you follow "not so" with "imo" and expect
anyone to take you seriously?
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:54PM|#
""Dems are typically against torture", except Obama..."
Didn't he sign an executive order against that first thing?
""Dems are typically against invasions of privacy and wiretapping",
except the nearly 100% who supported the Patriot Act, and
Obama..."
Didn't a Democratic Congress pass FISA in the first place?
""Dems oppose unilateralism", except when it comes to Somalia,
Kuwait, Pakistan, Afghanistan"
iirc only Democrats in the Senate voted against the first gulf war,
there is no action by a Democratic President or Congress against
Pakistan or Somalia that I know of,
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 5:55PM|#
So racism isn't a bad thing because it inaccurately groups a
large number of individuals into one nebulous mass, and then
ascribes similar attributes to that group on the basis of skin
color or country of origin alone... but it's bad only when used
perjoratively... Gotcha.
So, I guess it's cool for me to suggest that all black folks love
watermelon. Watermelon is delicious - hell, everyone should love
watermelon. You couldn't possibly say that that's
perjorative!
And surely it's not racist to suggest that all Asians are good at
math and science, gosh I should find some Jews to do my accounting,
they're great with money.
Dumbass.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:56PM|#
Fists
Scroll down bro, or ctrl-F "Table 2. Poverty Status of People by
Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006"
|4.28.09 @ 5:56PM|#
I have a very good liberal friend (cellphone code
name:Trotsky) who yesterday declared that the bailout mess has
proven that Obama will be just the next Jimmy Carter.
Well then. I guess that pretty much settles it.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:57PM|#
How do you get "not so" from "not so fast" and expect anyone to take you seriously?
MNG|4.28.09 @ 5:59PM|#
"Definitions of racism on the Web:
the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior
to members of other races
discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another
race
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Racism, by its simplest definition, is the belief that race is the
primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial
differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people
according to their racial groups. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes;
The belief that one race is superior to all others; Prejudice or
discrimination ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/racism"
Sean, who's the dumbass, the person who uses a word in its widely
accepted fashion, or one who does not?
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 6:09PM|#
"Racism, by its simplest definition, is the belief that race
is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that
racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular
race."
"The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes;
The belief that one race is superior to all others; Prejudice or
discrimination ..."
I AM using it in exactly that manner MNG!
Unless you weren't aware, "superiority" and "inferiority" are
merely flip sides of the same coin and you can view it as
pejorative or ameliorative depending on the context and your own
relation to the statement as you'd like.
EG: Asians make good engineers is a positive statement is it not?
The flipside of that would mean, non-Asians are poorer engineers
however, which is "negative". If you're Asian you're being
complimented - if you're not, you're being insulted.
The point I'm illustrating here unless you've completely missed it
- is that in viewing people in collective groups, rather than as
individuals you are committing a fallacy no matter what. The
democrats, imo, have always cornered the market on racism by
viewing demographic groups in racist terms. What's worse, the
closer you get to the media, the more painful it gets - out here in
Hollywood, it's nothing but racism. Except no one thinks
they're being racist because their bullshit collectivism is always
"positive".
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 6:11PM|#
Oh... except when directed at white people - in which case it is
always vicious and quite negative.
But collectivism doesn't only pop up in racial terms you know,
every profession... every ideology or religion... every political
position gets viewed through that lens too, and usually not in a
harmless, generalization way - but deliberately to malign certain
people by association.
|4.28.09 @ 6:59PM|#
The Republdican party is heading for extinction.
That's sad because A lot of Americans support their smaller
government, less spending philosphy
Many people just can't stand their anti-gay, anti-immigrant,
anti-enviornment,pro Christian, pro white, pro gun
position.
And the right Taliban Christian wing of the Republican party has
made it clear that if you can't buy the entire package, you need
not apply
Fists of Furry|4.28.09 @ 7:30PM|#
"Fists
Scroll down bro, or ctrl-F "Table 2. Poverty Status of People by
Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006"
I see "People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic" but I do
not see the term you used (black community) here. Do you have any
idea what black community means? Because if you think the term
black community means all black folks, that's okay, you're no more
racist than your average Democrat and I've learned to live with
that. Had to.
To reiterate, learn to read and write before you post here.
WhyIAmNotALeftist|4.28.09 @ 8:03PM|#
The left I'm a part of is consistently pacifist,
consistently hard-line on civil liberties . .
Kumbaya,
my lord,
Kumbaya,
Kumbaya, my Lord,
Kumbaya,
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
engineer|4.28.09 @ 8:16PM|#
"By poxing both houses equally you are giving rhetorical
advantage to the more corrupt one."
Tony, eminent Democratic shill, craps on the boards again.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 8:23PM|#
"The democrats, imo, have always cornered the market on racism
by viewing demographic groups in racist terms."
Look, as most people use and understand that term, to recognize
that blacks (or other groups) exist as a group, especially in order
to act to aid them, is not racism. You've got a kooky definition of
it. People are'nt worried about thinking that blacks are good
athletes for example, they are worried about thinking that blacks
are lazy or stupid, because the latter belief was used to justify
racist actions against them. What you're thinking of is:
Dictionary: ster·e·o·type
A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion,
or image
MNG|4.28.09 @ 8:25PM|#
"Do you have any idea what black community means? Because if you
think the term black community means all black folks"
Ohhhhkaaay. So the "black community" does not refer to all black
folks?
WTF does it mean, all white folks?
|4.28.09 @ 8:58PM|#
The Democratic party of today is not the same party it was
during slavery or jim crow except in name.
They're still the party that demands racial discrimination by
law.
-jcr
|4.28.09 @ 9:00PM|#
The Republdican party is heading for extinction.
I'm not sure of that. Once the power-seekers (like Specter) have
all shifted to the democrats, there's a chance for the Republicans
to return to being a small-government party. The Barry
Goldwater/Robert Taft/Ron Paul contingent has a pretty good shot at
taking it back.
-jcr
Sean W. Malone|4.28.09 @ 9:10PM|#
"Look, as most people use and understand that term, to recognize
that blacks (or other groups) exist as a group"
Except MNG, that's where you're idiot conception of the world fails
miserably. "Black people" aren't all *one* unified group!
And trying to "aid" them, by creating disastrous policies that have
completely wrecked their family lives, education, general access to
economic opportunities and stuffed an insane percentage into inner
cities rife with crime and other problems is simply retarded. You
don't help people that way.
But the "help" is always predicated on a severe inability to
understand the fundamental laws of economics - so we create
affirmative action programs/employer discrimination lawsuits (which
make employers reticent to hire blacks), minimum wage programs
(which necessarily reduce overall employment and takes away the
economic incentive for racists to get past that prejudice and hire
anyone who wants to work more than the next guy), welfare (which
rewards non-work and creates economic dependency), anti-drug
prohibitions (which disproportionately target and affect
minorities), and a whole host of other very well-intended
programs.
AS JCR just said - The Democrats are still the party that demands
racial discrimination BY LAW.
Instead of helping, I think all it's done is prolong the racial
tensions and problems - not least of which among the races being
"helped".
If you want to end racism, stop being racist - and that doesn't
mean stop using racial slurs, but more fundamentally stop viewing
people's intrinsic abilities and value to society based on the
color of their skin. I don't care if the rest of the world thinks
that "racism" is only using the word "Nigger", if you're using
skin-color or country of origin as your primary judge of a person's
ability (and therefore a primary reason to "help" or "harm" that
person) then you're a goddamn racist.
There's no way around that MNG.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 9:37PM|#
""Black people" aren't all *one* unified group!"
They are unified in one thing: their blackness. Just as atheists
are unified in that they all do not believe in a God.
"And trying to "aid" them, by creating disastrous policies"
etc.,
Like lowering the poverty rate among them from over 50% to around
20%?
By helping them get into colleges and into jobs?
By protecting them from discrimination in hiring, housing and
education?
These policies are neither racist in their intent or effects.
"if you're using skin-color or country of origin as your primary
judge of a person's ability (and therefore a primary reason to
"help" or "harm" that person)"
Ahh, but not even the liberals who advocate affirmative action
(which I oppose btw, if you're a regular here you should know that)
do what you are saying. They don't say that affirmative action is
needed because blacks have some characterstic x that makes them
unable to perform. In fact they would deny that strongly. They
think some artificial condition (discrimination, poverty, etc)
keeps them from performing, and that the program is needed to
combat the artificial condition.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 9:40PM|#
"They're still the party that demands racial discrimination by
law."
Actually, it was Nixon that started federal affirmative action if I
remember correctly. And the national GOP has been pretty tepid in
its efforts to end affirmative action.
Look, if what you are saying is that policies often supported by
the Democratic Party or liberals are racist against whites or
something, then I'm inclined to agree. My quibble was when you say
that the Democratic Party is racist against blacks because it
enacts programs like affirmative action and such. That's just
nutty.
|4.28.09 @ 9:42PM|#
We get it. Affirmative action is racist. Anything but ordering folks to pull themselves up from their bootstraps is favoritism. We wouldn't want realities to get in the way of ideological purity, or unicorns for that matter.
MNG|4.28.09 @ 9:46PM|#
"affirmative action programs/employer discrimination lawsuits
(which make employers reticent to hire blacks"
It may make them "reticent" but as they can be liable under the
latter laws they have to hire them. Since those laws were passed
more blacks work in more varied and prestigous professions than
before the laws existed.
"minimum wage programs"
Blacks make a disporportionate share of minimum wage laborers, so
it's hard to see this law as being racist.
"welfare (which rewards non-work and creates economic
dependency)"
Oh flapdoodle. There is no way to know that long term dependency is
the result of the benefit or the problems the benefit was designed
to address and ameliorate (i.e., educational, wealth, opportunity
deficets)
"anti-drug prohibitions (which disproportionately target and affect
minorities)"
Agreed on the effect, but wtf is this doing in a charge levelled at
the Democratic Party or liberals specifically? If anything they've
been less pro-WOD than the GOP and conservatives! Look at polling
data on legalization of self identified Democrats and liberals
compared to GOPers and conservatives...
MNG|4.28.09 @ 9:48PM|#
Tony
I actually agree that in its effects and at times its intent
affirmative action is often racist, but towards whites and other
groups that don't get the preference. The nutty thing is to see it
as racist against blacks...
Mr. Chartreuse|4.28.09 @ 10:11PM|#
IIRC, affirmative action, at least in California, was actually denying Asian students many more spots than white students.
alan|4.28.09 @ 10:16PM|#
Geez! Who would name their son "tongue-tied little rat
fucker"??!
Yeah, it does kind of settle the argument whether or not parents
can name their kids something so extreme the courts need to step
in.
Tounge-Tied Little Rat Fucker Phelter has lived a hard life for an
eight year old kid.
Name is actually, 'Walker' for the curious. I argued for John
Walker so he would at least be called something cool like Johny
Walker, but in hindsight that would have turned out to have been
worse.
engineer|4.28.09 @ 10:26PM|#
"He almost had to switch since he has some modicum of sanity and
intelligence which made him feel unwelcome in the current
GOP."
And so he became a Democrat? I mean, I can understand anybody with
sanity and intelligence feeling out of place in either of this
country's political parties, but what's the point of trading one
for the other?
|4.28.09 @ 10:26PM|#
I'm sure that this will come as a surprise to one of your
limited cognitive abilities, but reading a book isn't as hard as
you seem to think it is.
If by reading you mean sounding out the letters, no it's not that
hard.
engineer|4.28.09 @ 10:28PM|#
"Relax. stephendedalus82@yahoo.com has yet to show any sign of
the self awareness that would indicate true sentience. He's not
even that sophisticated for a bot."
No self-respecting roboticist would construct something like
stephendedalus82, except as a cruel joke.
engineer|4.28.09 @ 10:32PM|#
"Specter" not "Spector".
I blame Phil Spector for the mix-up.
And to the guy who did "Manhunter": It's Lecter, not Lektor.
Moran.
|4.28.09 @ 11:00PM|#
I studied Joyce in college, douche, and I use that ancient email address for spam.
engineer|4.28.09 @ 11:46PM|#
"I studied Joyce in college"
You mean you spent college doing something that was difficult AND
was not rewarding in any way? No wonder you have anger management
issues.
|4.29.09 @ 1:11AM|#
Screw this RINO. It's about time he went home to his real party. Is it just me or does Spector look like one of those little old guy child molesters? Kinda like Harry the body Reid.
Sean W. Malone|4.29.09 @ 3:15AM|#
Seriously MNG & Tony both.
Go read Thomas Sowell & Williams incredible body of work on the
subject of economics and race. I simply don't have the time or
inclination to explain to you why all of the things I said earlier
are no-brainers.
You think that minimum wage helps? It doesn't. All it does is raise
the overall unemployment rate. This is basic economics... If you
are an employer and you have $100,000 a year to spend on your
workforce, and there are 10 people willing to work for $10,000 each
who can do the job you need them to do, but the government says
that you can't hire anyone for less than $25,000 to do said job...
You can hire... let me think... umm.... 4 people. So let's see....
10 people have work, or 4 people have work. Which is better?
Oh, 4 people of course, because then those 4 can pay taxes and
subsidize the other 6. Sounds like a great plan...
But again, there are literally hundreds of peer-reviewed papers,
books and other resources out there on this topic and if you aren't
willing to avail yourself of them, it's not really worth my time to
explain.
So I say *again* go read "The State Against Blacks" by Walter
Williams, and then come back and talk to me about how wonderful all
these things are.
I'm sick of talking to people who seem to believe that
good-intentions are enough to make something function which is not
mathematically possible.
Sean W. Malone|4.29.09 @ 3:47AM|#
Oh, and by the way:
Going from 55% of total impoverished in 1959, pre-civil rights,
segregated, jim crow era, to still 24% in 2006-7 at only 12% of the
population doesn't really seem like that awesome of a shift.
Certainly nothing to write home about, and when you realize that it
was at about 30% in the 70s, when all the affirmative action stuff
started and has hovered right around there since, I'm not exactly
sure how you could possibly be making the point that it's been a
success - even without taking into account all of the negative side
effects.
But hey... Keep imagining that intentions are all that matter.
MNG|4.29.09 @ 7:36AM|#
Anyone who says "there are literally hundreds of peer reviewed
papers saying the same thing" and then refers you to either Sowell
or Walt Williams on the subject is probably not that steeped in the
former, the latter or both. Williams and Sowell are not leading
experts in the field of economic when it comes to the effects of
labor legislation. Way back when Sowell was considered an expert in
something it was in Marxism actually (he says this in interviews).
Both are popularizers of economics (damn good at it too if you ask
me) but neither is considered as leading the field in any area.
Hey, don't take my word, get in your car and drive to your nearest
university and start knocking on doors in the econ department...I'm
sure you will find that most economists agree with you that the
minimum wage can have negative effects (for some people, economics
is a field of trade offs and some people will be helped by minimum
wage laws [meaning they would have been employed anyway but at a
lower rate but for the laws], and those people will be
disproportionately black btw), but most will also think its a more
complicated and nuanced picture than Sowell and Williams let
on...
"Going from 55% of total impoverished in 1959, pre-civil rights,
segregated, jim crow era, to still 24% in 2006-7 at only 12% of the
population doesn't really seem like that awesome of a shift."
That's a HUGE shift! I mean, that means that four decades ago the
poverty rate, the frigging POVERTY rate, for blacks was more than
double what it is now for blacks! Its still unacceptably high, yes,
but just because the literally amazing gains that were made
inititally have slowed down is no reason to stop now, and its even
more ludicrous to suggest that what brought about the amazing gain
is the cause of the (significantly lowered but still unacceptably
high) current rate...
But at least you dropped the nutty idea that those who advocate
welfare or affirmative action do so because of some supposed
inferiority attributed to the beneficiaries. That was a truly goofy
opinion to hold and the center of your fallacious "liberal racism"
argument. They absolutely do not think that, in their opinion the
benefeciaries are not inferior but are inferiorly situated (poorer,
more discriminated against, lacking in social capital due to past
discrimination, etc).
MNG|4.29.09 @ 7:45AM|#
"But hey... Keep imagining that intentions are all that
matter."
Well, not all that matters, but don't act like they don't matter a
great deal, especially in whether someone is a racist or not. Its a
foundational holding in our society, our legal system and our
informal norms and mores for example, that only a guilty act PLUS a
certain blameworthy state of mind (acting knowingly or purposely,
or recklessly or negligently). A person's intention can make a
situation murder, manslaughter or justified self defense even
though the result is the same: a dead person. Intentions are
huge.
Liberals certainly intend to help blacks and other minorities. If
they are failing to actually do that, and actually harming them,
then they are guilty of at most ignorance. Maybe they don't know
that the policies you deride always and everywhwere produce the
negative effects you mention. But how can you blame them? Economics
doesn't "know that" either, it is not as certain and unnuanced as
you make it out to be, there is still great debate by folks with
more academic cred than you, me, Sowell, and Williams put together
on many of these issues, they are by no means decided and done
with. Go to your university library, get some of the economics
journals, and browse them and you will get the idea...So again,
it's just crazy nutty McNuts to accuse the Democrats/liberals of
racism. Incompetence, perhaps, insensitivity to other races (like
whites for example), likely, but malice towards blacks manifested
in actions meant to and actually causing harm to them,
hardly...
Drip, Drip, Drip|4.29.09 @ 9:30AM|#
"I studied Joyce in college, douche, and I use that ancient
email address for spam."
You send spam? What an asshole.
Doug Mayer|4.29.09 @ 10:49AM|#
Arlen Specter has made his move strictly on the basis of
enhancing his electability in 2010. This defection of such a long
term GOP senator is an embarrassment to the GOP and a disgraceful
way for Spector to end is career. I wonder what his constituents
are thinking this morning and can we expect any more surprises like
this the GOP? At a time when the Dems are dragging us down a little
more each day, this move is inexcusable and any funds he has
received from the GOP for election purposes should be returned for
a worthy Republican candidate. His constituents should sue him for
breach of contract. Inexcusable!
What a #@$%^&*(^%%$## self serving Knucklehead!
Sean W. Malone|4.29.09 @ 10:54AM|#
I'm referring you to Williams & Sowell because they've each
personally written dozens of papers and excellent books on
the topic, and Sowell as I understand it is largely an expert in
welfare policy.
And as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't really matter what your
intentions with policy are at all. Especially, in this instance, if
your *intention* is to separate people out by race, gender, sexual
orientation or whatever else, you are in fact a
racist/sexist/etc.
Again, any use of an uncontrollable trait such as race to determine
how we treat people *is* racism. You act like racism can only be
when it's directed "negative", but you forget that what is negative
to one group is positive to another and vice versa in these areas.
And overall it's negative to everyone because it keeps us thinking
about a separation that we shouldn't be thinking about.
And again, does a lot of harm.
Sean W. Malone|4.29.09 @ 11:09AM|#
Here, I'll give you one quote:
Poor people are not poor because of low wages. For the most part, they're poor because of low productivity, and wages are connected to productivity. The effect of minimum wages is that of causing unemployment among low-skilled workers. If an employer must pay $5.15 an hour, plus mandated fringes that might bring the employment cost of a worker to $7 an hour, does it pay him to hire a person who is so unfortunate as to have skills that permit him to produce only $4 worth of value per hour? Most employers would view hiring such a person as a losing economic proposition.
Two important surveys of academic economists were reported in two issues of the American Economic Review, May 1979 and May 1992. In one survey, 90 percent, and in the other 80 percent, of economists agreed that increasing the minimum wage causes unemployment among youth and low-skilled workers.
Minimum wages can have a more insidious effect. In research for my book "South Africa's War Against Capitalism" (1989), I found that during South Africa's apartheid era, racist unions, who'd never admit blacks, were the major supporters of higher minimum wages for blacks.
Gert Beetge, secretary of South Africa's avowedly racist Building Worker's Union, in response to contractors hiring black workers, said, "There is no job reservation left in the building industry, and in the circumstances I support the rate-for-the-job [minimum wages] as the second best way of protecting our white artisans." Racists recognized the discriminatory effects of mandated minimum wages.
(Walter Williams)
This is why I referenced him... There's a lot more.
Then of course, the question is, "well, if minimum wage won't help,
how about educating people to where they are more
productive?"
In theory sure... but exactly how do you do that when your inner
city schools are among the worst in a mediocre system to begin
with?
It's not like these things aren't related either... If you can't
get hired to do much at a wage beyond the minimum, or can't get
hired at all, and you've got welfare incentives eating away at the
family separating you from a support network, and drug policy
increasing the danger of getting arrested but also increasing the
economic incentives to make lots of money in black market drug
trafficking.... where do you go? And at some point, how do you
educate people surrounded by these second tier problems?
|4.29.09 @ 1:42PM|#
My quibble was when you say that the Democratic Party is
racist against blacks because it enacts programs like affirmative
action and such.
Handing out privileges on the basis of race isn't a good thing for
anyone. "Affirmative action" presupposes that blacks are inferior
and can't compete without government patronage, and that's
tremendously destructive.
-jcr
|4.29.09 @ 1:47PM|#
Racists recognized the discriminatory effects of mandated
minimum wages.
The reason we got minimum wage laws here in the USA is that the
unions didn't want to compete with black workers who were willing
to take lower wages. One of the greatest propaganda successes of
all time was convincing blacks and other minorities that they
benefit from minimum wage laws.
-jcr
|4.29.09 @ 4:25PM|#
"Affirmative action" presupposes that blacks are
inferior
Funny I thought it presupposes that blacks have an endemic economic
disadvantage, not that they're inferior people.
Sean W. Malone|4.29.09 @ 5:25PM|#
"Affirmative action" presupposes that blacks are
inferior
Funny I thought it presupposes that blacks have an endemic economic
disadvantage, not that they're inferior people.
The things above are not mutually exclusive - you might believe
blacks are in an "inferior" position because they've had a raw deal
(certainly true) or that they are inferior for other reasons, but
the bottom line is that the presumption of affirmative action is
that an equal playing field is not enough and that the rules of the
game need to be slanted. Of course, without taking into account the
actual real-world effects, especially secondary & tertiary
effects, of the policies.
|4.29.09 @ 9:43PM|#
when i was a kid i used to watch professional wrestling. i gotta admit, i loved it. somethimes a specific wrestler would switch from, "good guy," to, "bad guy," or vise-versa. it made for compelling saturday morning drama. but, i came to realize, regardless of my loyalties to any wrestler, good or bad, the matches were all fixed and they all got thier checks cut from vince mcmahon.
|4.29.09 @ 9:49PM|#
oh, and jcr, i do agree with you. i wonder if you agree that things like legacy status in college admissions is just as destructive.
|4.30.09 @ 11:49AM|#
Petition to remove Specter:
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/1849/petition-to-remove-arlen-specter-from-office/
|4.30.09 @ 1:37PM|#
i wonder if you agree that things like legacy status in
college admissions is just as destructive.
No, I don't. Legacy status is a major fund-raising tool for
colleges that want to panhandle from their alumni.
-jcr
|4.30.09 @ 1:41PM|#
I thought it presupposes that blacks have an endemic
economic disadvantage,
Since they'll take a rich black kid over a poor white kid, the
claim that it's some kind of quest for equity is belied.
The long and short of it is, racial discrimination is wrong, no
matter which group it's directed towards, or what euphemisms are
coined to pretend that it's not racism. There is no such thing as
collective justice.
-jcr
Michael Ohio|5.1.09 @ 8:09PM|#
Arlen Specter was the source of the 'magic bullet' explanation for the assassination of President Kennedy. It was pure bunk and allowed Oswald, the designated patsy, to solely take the blame. For the Democrat party to now embrace him is despicable and shows a horrendous lack of character. Specter is a shameless opportunist and his magic bullet was a lie. He belongs in prison for that and other activities he has participated in.
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