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Reason.tv: Tea Party Confidential—Matt Kibbe of Freedomworks tells what's coming next in the hugely popular anti-government-spending movement.
During Reason Weekend, the annual event held by the nonprofit that publishes this website, Reason.tv's Nick Gillespie caught up with Matt Kibbe of Freedomworks, the group that has done more than anyone else to coordinate the controversial and wildly popular Tea Party demonstrations against out-of-control government spending.
Kibbe, a longtime limited-government activist, explains the meaning of the Tea Party movement, its grassroots appeal, the mainstream media's inability to understand the rage of the common man, and what comes next for the most vital anti-government movement in memory.
Shot and edited by Roger Richards; approximately 5.30 minutes.
Go here for iPod and HD versions and more videos.
Go here for an audio podcast version.
Related materials:
An archive of anti-stimulus, anti-bailout writings by Freedomworks' chairman, Dick Armey.
Kibbe's writings on the same topics. And his classic Reason.com article from October 2, 2008, "What Would Mises Do?: Confessions of a free-market, anti-bailout operator."
From October 2007's Reason in DC conference, here is Armey on "Illegal Immigrants: 'Bless their hearts'" (approximately 3.30 minutes).
Lester Hunt|4.21.09 @ 12:30PM|#
I don't remember ever seeing so much angry opposition to a new administration so early in the game. That's probably the single most amazing thing about this movement.
classwarrior|4.21.09 @ 12:36PM|#
Would it be too rude of me to point out that these "spontaneous" demonstrations were organized by lobbying firms that also worked for banks to get bailout money?
|4.21.09 @ 12:39PM|#
It wouldn't be too rude - but it would help to actually cite evidence of your accusation.
|4.21.09 @ 12:43PM|#
"9/12"....sounds like Glenn Beck is the head of the Freedomworks and the mmovement only 12 months after calling Ron Paul supporters terrorist.
|4.21.09 @ 12:52PM|#
"Would it be too rude of me to point out that these
"spontaneous" demonstrations were organized by lobbying firms that
also worked for banks to get bailout money?"
Yeah, uh, Astroturf! Bush spent money too! Where's your
solution?
JournoList! (oops. Scratch that last one.)
|4.21.09 @ 1:08PM|#
Would it be too rude of me to point out that these
"spontaneous" demonstrations were organized by lobbying firms that
also worked for banks to get bailout money?
Oh, only if you consider it rude to lie through your teeth.
-jcr
Mike M.|4.21.09 @ 1:08PM|#
I don't remember ever seeing so much angry opposition to a
new administration so early in the game.
I don't think anyone has ever proven to be quite so disingenuous
this quickly before.
Orange Line Special|4.21.09 @ 1:22PM|#
Apparently "the common man" has been defined really down, since
the "parties" only got somewhere between 0.1% and 0.2% of the U.S.
population to come out and wave loopy signs.
Meanwhile, even a hack like Instapundit
is supporting my plan to ask questions on video.
One person really pressing BHO on
this question or DickDurbin on this question would have a
much greater impact than a million "tea parties".
|4.21.09 @ 1:26PM|#
I don't remember ever seeing so much angry opposition to a
new administration so early
Kids, let me tell you about the Reagan administration...
-jcr
|4.21.09 @ 1:28PM|#
Come to think of it, the pinkos were in an incredible snit over
Gore losing in such a close race, and they were pretty vicious
about it. They shut up for a while right after 9/11, though.
-jcr
|4.21.09 @ 1:31PM|#
Would it be too rude of me to point out that these
"spontaneous" demonstrations were organized by lobbying firms that
also worked for banks to get bailout money?
Its always rude to make factual assertions without supporting
links.
|4.21.09 @ 1:36PM|#
FUCK DICK ARMEY
FUCK HIM!
Dick Armey is still towing the lion for the fusionist movement.
Fuck that noise. Armey is flat out one hundred percent wrong wrong
wrong when he claims libertarians have so much more in common than
conservatives. You go hell Dick Armey! You go to hell and you die!
Your conservative friends have done nothing but anal rape
libertarians for the past four decades. FUCK CONSERVATIVES! And
everyone that claims libertarians should cozy up to conservatives
deserves to be skinned alive!
|4.21.09 @ 1:47PM|#
I don't remember ever seeing so much angry opposition to a
new administration so early in the game.
It doesn't seem to have much to do with the "new administration"
from what I've seen, other than the fact that many of the people
involved honestly expected Obama to be an improvement and are
sauced at being so wrong.
JP|4.21.09 @ 2:22PM|#
Re: the tea parties' popularity:
A
Rasmussen poll on April 16-17 found 51% (give or take a few) to
have a very favorable or somewhat favorable impression of the tea
parties.
Paul|4.21.09 @ 2:34PM|#
Would it be too rude of me to point out that these
"spontaneous" demonstrations were organized by lobbying firms that
also worked for banks to get bailout money?[citation
needed]
Fixed.
|4.21.09 @ 2:38PM|#
Xeones, did you catch the Mad TV bit where Dick Armey showed up
with his wife Vagina Coastguard?
I'm probably misremembering the hell out of it, but funny either
way.
Alan Vanneman|4.21.09 @ 2:46PM|#
I'll stop towing the lion when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Fusionistism rocks! Oh, and, by the way, A Rasmussen poll on April 16-17 found 0.051% (give or take a few) to have a very favorable or somewhat favorable impression of Nick's jacket.
|4.21.09 @ 2:51PM|#
I don't think anyone has ever proven to be quite so
disingenuous this quickly before.
How dare he actually follow through on his campaign promises!
Politicians aren't supposed to do that.
Brandon|4.21.09 @ 2:53PM|#
I don't get picking September 12th for Tea Party II. This movement has already allowed its message to be misinterpreted and diluted by causes other than its anti-bailout, anti-spending origins. Why allow terrorism, 9/11 truth, Iraq etc. to be potentially thrown into the mix?
wingnutx|4.21.09 @ 3:01PM|#
" this is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism straight up. "
Orange Line Special|4.21.09 @ 3:02PM|#
Here's the call for Tea Party II on
July 4th.
Alternatively, sane people who support our laws and who want to
actually be effective should see my suggestions above.
|4.21.09 @ 3:10PM|#
wingnutx, link is blocked at work. Is that quote from Jenene Garafalo of Mystery Men fame?
wingnutx|4.21.09 @ 3:14PM|#
⅞ Libertarian, it sure is.
She goes on at length, and Keith Olbermann nods and mutters "yes,
yes..." at every point.
Xeones|4.21.09 @ 3:19PM|#
How dare he actually follow through on his campaign
promises! Politicians aren't supposed to do that.
Keep it up. This is great.
Xeones|4.21.09 @ 3:23PM|#
What part of STFU LoneWacko escapes your mental
grasp?
If you want to ask the WackedOne a question you have to videorecord
it and post it on YouTube.
|4.21.09 @ 3:24PM|#
We seriously need a Stephen Colbert-style parody of Olbermann. The pudendum needs to swing back the other way.
Another Phil|4.21.09 @ 3:47PM|#
FUCK DICK ARMEY
Give him credit for having the greatest name ever though.
classwarrior|4.21.09 @ 3:48PM|#
For those asking (in good faith)about sources here's one, and
there are others:
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/15/armey-financial-giants/
|4.21.09 @ 4:22PM|#
Now I it's all making sense classist.
WE'RE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS PEOPLE!
Those teabagger people were hired by Dick Armey to protest taxpayer
bailouts of companies like AIG.
But Dick was funded by AIG... who in part, was funded by Obama and
the US Congress with taxes.
Therefore the anti-tax protesters are just tools of the
OCTOBAMA!!!
|4.21.09 @ 4:29PM|#
So, you're admitting you have nothing classwarrior. This is my
favorite from Thinkprogress:
"Despite these attempts to make the "movement" appear organic, the
principle organizers of the local events are actually the
lobbyist-run think tanks Americans for Prosperity and Freedom
Works. The two groups are heavily staffed and well funded, and are
providing all the logistical and public relations work necessary
for planning coast-to-coast protests"
Apart from being semi-literate, this is a lie.
|4.21.09 @ 4:38PM|#
Therefore the anti-tax protesters are just tools of the
OCTOBAMA!!!
Hey, wait a minute classist. That doesn't make fuckall of sense.
You'll need to explain... in very great detail. [slow day at
work]
ORourkian|4.21.09 @ 4:43PM|#
I don't recall ever seeing an administration nearly quadruple the deficit so early in the game. And, the fact that Pelosi and Reid are lying liars who lie helps a lot.
|4.21.09 @ 4:46PM|#
To whomever: Just formed up last week is a Valley Forge, PA Tea
Party on April 25th. I've been to 5 tea parties, have attended
organizational meetings and I have yet to see an institutional or
big money influence. Now 5 out of thousands is certainly not
conclusive, but it does have a bit of standing.
An organizer I met at a previous tea party will take my proposal
for utilizing MLK's tactics to fight this congress and
administration's spending policies to his grassroots organization
for support. Picketing local offices of the spending offenders
would be a good start. Tea Party organizers have contacts
throughout the country via their conference calls with other tea
party organizers. This may be a grassroots effort, but they do
share information. I am also trying to rally the 912ers for this
action too.
Here's hoping that a major portion of the 500,000 or so protesters
can be mobilized to carry forth with our opposition to the attempt
to spend and tax us into economic rumination and the loss of
personal and economic freedom that will result.
|4.21.09 @ 4:57PM|#
I don't recall ever seeing an administration nearly
quadruple the deficit so early in the game. And, the fact that
Pelosi and Reid are lying liars who lie helps a lot.
They've laid out in plain language why they think the massive
spending was necessary. So far, nobody has come up with an
alternative fact-based means of stopping the economic hemorrhage.
Nobody likes it. There just aren't any appealing or even fair ways
to rescue a vast economy on the verge of collapse. Criticize the
methods, but come up with alternatives and at least lay some blame
at the forces that caused the collapse in the first place.
As for Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid, do you know anything about
them other than "they are evil because Rush says so?"
Jim Treacher|4.21.09 @ 5:14PM|#
They've laid out in plain language why they think the massive spending was necessary.
Yeah, because Bush spent a lot less massively. Have fun carting a
wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread.
Jeff|4.21.09 @ 5:21PM|#
I'd just suggest that people let people think it was astroturf.
They'll be all the more surprised when the political fallout
happens. I was on board the day after Santellis famous speech on
the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade. The hundreds of thousands
of people who went to the parties know they weren't bamboozled into
attending too, so the people that make the astroturf claim lose all
credibility immediately.
So if they want to believe it was astroturf, let them. By the time
they figure out that it isn't, it will be too late for them to
mount a good defense.
|4.21.09 @ 5:26PM|#
Jeff,
If you were bamboozled into something, how would you know? If you
knew, wouldn't you not have been bamboozled in the first
place?
I'm willing to believe you guys that this was your idea first, but
like all your ideas it was co-opted by the GOP media machine and
turned into a political stunt, and turned out to be a fairly
pathetic one at that.
But people who don't expand their information gathering beyond
GOP-approved sources wouldn't know that.
Orange Line Special|4.21.09 @ 5:37PM|#
If most useful idiots knew they were useful idiots, the term
wouldn't really apply so strongly, right?
Regarding the Valley Forge, PA Tea Party guy, he'd be nowhere
without the support he's ignoring or not aware of, such as the
FoxNews ads for the "movement", Freedomworks pushing the
"movement", and so on. Without all those, he'd just be some guy
with five friends and two loopy signs.
And, what's hilarious about the current crop of useful idiots is
that they don't realize how those for whom they're useful idiots
have and most likely will stab them in the back:
those pulling the strings support massive immigration.
|4.21.09 @ 5:47PM|#
"Criticize the methods, but come up with alternatives and at
least lay some blame at the forces that caused the collapse in the
first place."
Oh ME! Oh ME! Call on MEEEE!
|4.21.09 @ 5:50PM|#
Tony:
Co-opted by the GOP media machine? You ever actually tried critical
thinking? What is the GOP media machine? Rush Limbaugh? How does he
equal up to the NYT, Newsweek, Time, LAT, Boston Globe, MSNBC, CBS,
CNN, etc? Is it Fox News? They get accused of bias, but independent
stdies show that they are indeed the most balanced. Fairly
pathetic? With attendance at over 500,000 people it compares with
the anti-iraq war protests.
Pew research just came out with a study showing that Republicans
are much more informed than Democrats. Instead of just taking
easily refutable talking points at face value and then regurgitaing
them, our democracy would be better served if you and your ilk
actually learned to think for yourselves.
|4.21.09 @ 6:04PM|#
livermoron,
What is the GOP media machine?
FOX news, talk radio, and a few really pathetic attempts at
blogs.
How does he equal up to the NYT, Newsweek, Time, LAT, Boston
Globe, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, etc?
You mean mainstream sources of news that everyone in the world goes
to for valid information?
They get accused of bias, but independent stdies show that they
are indeed the most balanced.
I know you're not referring to the Center for Media and Public
Affairs study (100% funded by conservative interests).
Even if I accept the premise that its news coverage is balanced,
nobody can deny that its punditry leans almost universally to the
right. And can you name another mainstream "news" outfit that was
founded by a political operative?
FOX news has been caught multiple times delivering GOP talking
points verbatim on air.
Even the concept of "balance" was a FOX news creation, that comes
with the suggestion that facts aren't important, it's providing
equal parts criticism to two sides of an issue regardless of facts.
I reject the idea that news has to be "balanced" in this way
totally.
With attendance at over 500,000 people it compares with the
anti-iraq war protests.
Would you be referring to the 36 million people who showed up to
protest 3,000 times in the first 4 months of 2003, and the many
protests since?
Pew research just came out with a study showing that
Republicans are much more informed than Democrats.
Really? I was just reading a poll that put Daily Show viewers as
the most informed about current events, and FOX viewers as dead
last.
JP|4.21.09 @ 6:14PM|#
Would you be referring to the 36 million people who showed
up to protest 3,000 times in the first 4 months of 2003, and the
many protests since?
I'd be interested in a source for that. 36 million is over 10% of
the total US
population.
|4.21.09 @ 6:18PM|#
Liberals are emotional; their brains are broken. Logic won't
persuade them.
They still bash BUSH and defend Marxism on display like it's
patriotic.
Take away their megaphone. Cancel ALL print media and cable TV
until the 2010 election is over.
Attend your local city and town hall meetings. FORCE them to pay as
you go - stop taking State and Federal money. Don't start
unnecessary projects that can't be funded locally. Federal Money is
OUR money.
HOLD A TEA PARTY IN YOUR TOWN OR CITY. You can do this ON YOUR
OWN!
Ignore brainless emoticons on this or any other blog.
|4.21.09 @ 6:19PM|#
Do you have to stick your fingers down your throat to spew that
or are you naturally able to perform reverse peristalsis?
Was it Fox news who created the Bush/TNG memos? Or was it your
mainstream media? Only an idiot relies on those folk for
'facts'.
You are the problem. But I bet you feel good about yourself. That's
what really counts.
Tim Cavanaugh|4.21.09 @ 7:09PM|#
Who knew that this year's Reason Weekend was held in the snowed-in, totally empty Overlook Hotel?
|4.21.09 @ 7:33PM|#
Hi,
I'm interested in learning more about what Matt Kibbe said about
the best thing the government can do is get out of the way in an
economic crisis.
I'm not sure if those were his exact words but he did mention that
if you look at history you can find reasons why that is.
Does anyone have any references to literature, blog posts, etc.
where I can learn more about why government spending causes
problems?
I have friends who are saying that we had to have the stimulus to
get out of this downturn and I disagree but only because I think
taking on more and more debt is not a good thing but I'm sure there
is much more than that and I want to learn all I can.
Tim Cavanaugh|4.21.09 @ 7:34PM|#
So far, nobody has come up with an alternative fact-based
means of stopping the economic hemorrhage. Nobody likes it. There
just aren't any appealing or even fair ways to rescue a vast
economy on the verge of collapse. Criticize the methods, but come
up with alternatives and at least lay some blame at the forces that
caused the collapse in the first place.
1. Do not use metaphors when you're talking about the news. It's
not a "hemmorhage." It's the long-postponed (by monetary policy)
devaluation of an economy that was overvalued by tens of trillions
of dollars. It is not over, it can not be stopped by any
government, and it is the solution, not the problem.
2. "Nobody likes it." Nobody likes poverty or starvation either,
but those are the natural states of humanity, a fact that the
cleverness and prudence of generations beyond count have helped to
shield us from.
3. Here's an alternative: Say, "I'm sorry, but there's nothing we
can do. There are no solutions because the recession is
the solution. If the disappearance of trillions of dollars into
bailouts and stimulus -- with not one iota of evidence that
economic activity is improving -- has not convinced you of this,
then you're not just poor but foolish."
|4.21.09 @ 7:36PM|#
In Greenville SC, some GOP candidates who showed up were boo'ed and some people turned their backs on them. Others were asked not to come. It was not a GOP event. If the GOP has tried to coop the Tea Party movement, they have not been successful.
Tim Cavanaugh|4.21.09 @ 7:40PM|#
And that "foolish" is directed at hypothetical t-shirt-and-fanny-pack-wearing American slobs, not any of the people on this interesting thread, all of whom are above average.
Paul|4.21.09 @ 8:03PM|#
Is that quote from Jenene Garafalo of Mystery Men
fame?
Yes. Or better known from The Truth about Cats and Dogs
fame.
That poor girl is just unhinged...
She used to make me mad, now I want to call my wife in the E.R. and
ask, "is there something we can do for this person? Some services
we can steer her toward?"
I truly ache for the pain she must feel.
wingnutx|4.21.09 @ 8:04PM|#
There was plenty of GOP-slamming at the one in Phoenix, as well as a few speakers who are part of the GOP.
JP|4.21.09 @ 8:07PM|#
I'm interested in learning more about what Matt Kibbe said
about the best thing the government can do is get out of the way in
an economic crisis.
I can't think of one source that lays it all out, but I would
suggest the following for starters:
- Economics in One Lesson, by Hazlitt (free download
available at the Foundation for Economic Freedom website)
- Basic Economics, by Thomas Sowell
- the posts at the Cafe Hayek blog and Cato at Liberty blog
|4.21.09 @ 8:30PM|#
I'd be interested in a source for that. 36 million is over
10% of the total US population.
That is a worldwide figure I got from Wikipedia. While you'll
counter that we're talking about American protests, (I'd like to
know how many teabagging parties were held elsewhere in the world),
in a pissing contest such as this it is not irrelevant to note that
Feb. 13, 2003 is recognized by Guinness as the largest protest in
human history.
|4.21.09 @ 8:33PM|#
"As for Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid, do you know anything
about them other than "they are evil because Rush says so?""
Rush!? I love their song "Today's Tom Sawyer"! They TOTALLY rock,
dude! In which song do they mention Pelosi and Reid...I must
listen!
|4.21.09 @ 8:36PM|#
Tim,
I'm sorry, but there's nothing we can do. There are no
solutions because the recession is the solution.
I'll take this as a distillation of your point.
This is the biggest economic meltdown since the Great Depression,
and excuse the metaphor but this isn't some common occurrence. If
it were, you can be sure the American people would demand as much
regulation as possible to counter it.
For, as it turns out, sound economic policy can prevent the types
of crises you defend as necessary evils. What ended the Great
Depression was massive government spending. We're trying to repeat
the success of the New Deal and WWII in a faster, better informed,
and hopefully world-war-lacking way.
But on cue you're going to say that the Great Depression was
prolonged by government spending, despite the preponderance of
evidence.
|4.21.09 @ 8:41PM|#
I mean you guys could just pretend we're fighting WWIII. I'm
sure it would dampen your opposition to government spending if we
had some shit to blow up.
In a way that's just what we're doing, only the ideology we're
opposing is not Naziism or Fascism, but Laissez-faire capitalism.
Just be glad you don't have to go get turned into bomb fodder for
the cause.
Tim Cavanaugh|4.21.09 @ 9:39PM|#
Tony: "Meltdown" is another metaphor. A meltdown is the melting
of a significant portion of a nuclear reactor core caused by
insufficient cooling. It has nothing to do with finance, jobs,
industry or anything else. It's just more hysterics. Saying this is
the biggest meltdown since the Depression is as valuable as saying
it's the biggest jabberwock since brillig.
We are looking at a very specific circumstance: a stoppage of
lending that has occured in reaction to a massive amount of bad
debt and leverage -- which in turn was encouraged by specific
public and monetary policies. You are proposing that we solve that
problem by taking on more debt and becoming even more leveraged,
this time at the level of money creation rather than money
management.
Even if we concede your point that massive government spending
ended the Depression (I don't), your conflating of the "success" of
the New Deal and World War II is another cheat: The U.S. portion of
the war was well underway before the Depression ended. Even using
your post hoc ergo propter hoc logic, that would mean the
war, not the New Deal (which by that point had been in effect for a
decade), ended the Depression. I don't believe government spending
can activate an economy for the same reason I don't believe a
tapeworm can build up its host's muscle density, but at least your
logic should be consistent.
FDR\'s Secretary of the Treasu|4.22.09 @ 12:23AM|#
What ended the Great Depression was massive government
spending.
We are spending more money than we have ever spent before and it
does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see
people get a job. We have never made good on our promises. I say
after eight years of this administration we have just as much
unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot.
|4.22.09 @ 6:13AM|#
OK - I am just going to throw a few things out there
1- To fund WWII, the US had to sell treasury notes to the American
people. Being that the military was and still is a federal entity,
millions (which back then actually met a lot more then it does now)
was taken from the civilian populace to fund a war. So how did the
government make enough money to by back the treasury notes from the
people? Inflation through the banks, and blowing through a lot of
the gold sitting at Ft Knox, even further debasing our currency. We
have less the 1/5 left of the original gold stolen from the fed
govt by the Gold Reserve Act of 1930 in an attempt to stop the
great depression.
2- Going back further - In 1913 the Federal Reserve Act was put in
place. The 16th amendment was ratified to tax individual income as
well. Around 1920 or so, banks started increasing their margin
allowances to buy stock. So people started buying stock with money
they never really had. In 1929 the New York stock exchange started
panicking because of the debt piled up by said margin calls that
were being used to pay for stocks that weren't worth the market
price. So as banks started tightening their belts, people panicked,
and so started the first great depression in 1929.
3- On December 3, 1929 Hoover announced that the worst of the
depression (less then 2 months from its hardest hit) was over, and
that the American people had regained faith in the economy. This is
a close to home example of belief vs. reality. Oddly enough the
city of New York had enough money to open an Art Museum.
4- 02 December 1930. Economy is still hurting. US President Herbert
Hoover goes before Congress and asks for a US$150 million public
works program to help generate jobs and stimulate the economy.
(First Bail out). Note that in the same year it became a crime for
people to keep gold coinage, bullion, etc.
5- 06 June 1932, The Revenue Act of 1932 is enacted, creating the
first gas tax in the United States, at a rate of 1 cent per US
gallon (26 ¢/L) sold. Taxes to help pay for first stimulus (note
the pattern here, and that the 'stimulus did not work back then
either as the Great Depression remains ongoing. The Dow hits a new
low of 41.22.
I could go on and on, but I think you would all get the point. If
you trust our current and past administrations are doing the right
thing, then you are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to
mine. However I am bug believer of the phrase 'those who do not
learn from history are doomed to repeat it'.
HAND (have a nice day)
|4.22.09 @ 6:46AM|#
In addition to last -
It should also be noted that between 1920 and 1930, the National
decreased from 25 to 16 billion as WWI was being paid off. From
1930 to 1940 the debt increase dramatically to 43 billion. This
means that the debt increased despite the 649.6 million ounces of
gold that it stole from its own people. We only 147.3 million
ounces left by the way according to the Mint.
After 1945 when the war was facing its end, the debt continued to
rise to 257 billion by 1950. It hasn't gone down since.
So ask yourself - Why was a recovery being made after WW1 but not
WWII?
Well, this is where inflation kicks in. In the mid 1930's,
inflation started kicking in. More money that is worth less. In the
late 30's a brief period of deflation hit, but soon ended when in
1940. Remember that high periods of inflation equal more spending.
If you don't spend money, the govt will. That is a historical fact.
As long as the banks fuel this debt based economy, and the govt
backs those banks, we are all subservient to this machine that
profits off of the ignorance of the people. Shoot, even Wilson
acknowledged the fact that it was a thing, as did Thomas
Jefferson.
So now we have not only less production and less backing to our
dollar, it continues to be devalued through reckless spending. As
Scrooge McDuck told Huey Lewey and Duey back in 1969, this is a
very scary thing.
What brought so much interest to these tea-parties, was that Obama
accelerated the spending rate to an unheard of high, to accomplish
something that history shows us is not feasible.
In all fairness to Obama, he is not the first to do this, and does
not deserve all the blame on him alone. Once again - history tells
a wonderful story to those who care to listen.
Now the Murdoch owned media like Beck, and many others have turned
the Tea party movement (made famous originally by Ron Paul) into a
mockery. It has been turned into more of a social event, and grand
standing then a real movement. Which is a damn shame because the
original movement held a damn good purpose.
|4.22.09 @ 6:56AM|#
I guess what I am trying to say is that the only thing
government spending increases accomplishes, is upping the
perception of the historically ignorant who honestly believe that
it actually works.
In turn, it increases debt, lowers productivity, increases govt
theft fraud and abuse, oppresses the people while claiming to help
it, and makes a pain of itself to both its citizens and the rest of
the world as well.
However people themselves are also to blame for not only allowing
and voting for it, but by increasing their dependency on it.
The piper is playing - will you follow like a rat into the
river?
|4.22.09 @ 11:12AM|#
your conflating of the "success" of the New Deal and World
War II is another cheat: The U.S. portion of the war was well
underway before the Depression ended.
You seem to be missing my point, which is that the New Deal and the
war can both be seen as massive government spending. All you have
to do is look at indicators for that period. Did it take many
years? Yes--that's why this time around we're trying to fix the
problem quickly and without the waste of a world war.
|4.22.09 @ 11:23AM|#
For those of you out there who ridiculed the tea party
attendees, I suppose you believe in extremely high deficient
spending while your like minded pundits condemned Bush's
considerably less excessive spending. So $8 billion in pork
spending was insignificant in the budget, but Obama's $100 million
cut is significant. Good logic there from spokesperson Gibbs.
And why is it no one addressed the use of MLK tactics against
congress to impress upon them the need to stop spending our country
into ruination? Hey, just asking.
Bruce Majors|4.22.09 @ 2:05PM|#
Janeane Garofalo will be at the AltCom Festival in Somerville,
MA on May 8th. Check out http://www.altcomfestival.com/index.php
for more info! Show her how you feel
Douse fascist flaks with buckets of tea!
|4.23.09 @ 4:51AM|#
Tony-
"You seem to be missing my point, which is that the New Deal and
the war can both be seen as massive government spending. All you
have to do is look at indicators for that period. Did it take many
years? Yes--that's why this time around we're trying to fix the
problem quickly and without the waste of a world war."
During the 'New Deal' the deficit skyrocket and inflation went up
as well. How do you see this as working to help out the
economy?
War did not create any new wealth either - Nor does it today. After
WW1 the deficit went down due to massive inflation. Due to easier
money supply, treasury securities were able to be redeemed, and as
such the National debt started going down at the cost of inflation.
Instead of restoring the interest rate down to more nominal levels,
the Fed kept it high making easy money that enabled banks to make
huge margin allowances which when called by JP Morgan caused
several bank runs that forced the banks to tighten the money
supply. As such, people finally had to own up to the fact that
there was simply no money left to get out the situation. Instead of
allowing prices to fall and production to increase, the Depression
was even more inflated by easier money, and 'the New Deal'. The
fact is a war machine is very expensive to build and maintain, and
even more expensive to employ to foriegn soil. Money buys beans and
bullets - neither of which is a renewable resource of income unless
reperations are made by the country we wage war against. That is
why going to war is never profitable. And if these economic guru's
are right when they said that, then how come they have only
maintained society by debt? So yes war does not help, but neither
does devaluing the dollar, creating inflation, increasing national
debt. Especially when coupled with the facts that we are still
occupy over 10 foreign countries, still maintain the most expensive
military in the world, pay billions to bail out the banks who
created this mess, steal money from citizens and corporations and
give it to the government who claims that the 'big corporations are
the real problems'....geez man, don't you get it?
|4.23.09 @ 4:59AM|#
Also - in 1929 it was often said by the News Papers and politicians how strong and sound the economy was - then not even 5 months later, the Great Depression started. Sound familiar?
JohnD|4.23.09 @ 9:20AM|#
Tony may just be the most uninformed person I've ever seen on
this site.
Is he for real or just a straw man Reason put up to be a
counterpoint? BTW, Tony, most historians say the great depression
was actualy LENGTHENED by Roosevelt.
And I remember the Carter days. Massive unemployment and double
digit inflation.
The governemnt is doing nothing worthwhile to end this recession.
In fact, they will make it worse by creating massive debt for
little good reason. We will soon be relegated to the status of a
third world country.
Buck Steele|4.25.09 @ 3:59PM|#
Tony, I believe you've stumbled upon the solution. Since our
involvement in WWII got us out of the depression, then this is our
opportunity to invade China via N. Korea...and this time, we'll go
all the way to Moscow. That'll fix our economy.
I'll make it a bit more palatable for you, though. Based on your
premise that war spending had a positive impact, I guess we could
build a bunch of ships and airplanes, load them all up with tanks,
and them dump them all into the ocean. Of course, we will have a
large excess population since we didn't kill all the sailors,
soldiers, and airmen, but since they probably cause global warming
anyhow, I'm sure we can find a way to euthanize a few million males
between the ages of 18 and 35 so we can replicate that situation to
which you so fondly refer....I gotta say this, because I'm so
pissed off at pretty much everything you say...JERK!@!!!
|4.30.09 @ 1:57PM|#
Tony may just be the most uninformed person I've ever seen
on this site.
I think the term I would use is "disinformed". Tony has swallowed
the Ruling Party line, and can't be bothered to question it.
-jcr
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