Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Remember, 95 Percent of Americans Will See a Tax Cut!
That is, if you narrow the definition of "tax" to "federal income tax" (as opposed to, say, federal cigarette taxes or carbon surchages), change the definition of "Americans" to "American households," and "95 percent" to "75.5 percent." And it's better to just ignore the tax-cranking going on at the state and local level:
A free fall in tax revenue is driving more state lawmakers to turn to broad-based tax increases in a bid to close widening budget gaps.
At least 10 states are considering some kind of major increase in sales or income taxes: Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin. California and New York lawmakers already have agreed on multibillion-dollar tax increases that went into effect earlier this year.
This is inevitably being spun as the sad-but-unavaoidable byproduct of the crashing economy. But as Michael Flynn and Adam B. Summers detailed in our bookmarkable May cover story, if states had simply kept their budget growth pegged to GDP growth plus inflation growth (nevermind actually cutting anything) during the comparative good times of 2002-2007, instead of embarking on a spending binge, they would have enough money to cover their current budget "shortfalls."
In a California minute, total U.S. tax rates are jerking northward toward 1970s levels, all at a time when the president and his economic advisers talk about kick-starting consumer spending. It's curious.
Kyle Jordan|4.9.09 @ 9:49AM|#
"In a California minute, total U.S. tax rates are jerking
northward toward 1970s levels, all at a time when the president and
his economic advisers talk about kick-starting consumer spending.
It's curious."
C'mon Matt. Good, logical thinking and reasoning is the very
antithesis of Hope and Change. Chocolate Jesus is Magic!
High Every Body|4.9.09 @ 9:57AM|#
Remember, 95 Percent of Americans Will See a Tax
Cut!"
A less wordy version of the explaination could be that 95% of
Americans will see somebody get a tax cut.
:)
|4.9.09 @ 10:01AM|#
What's worse is that while the federal government jacks up taxes, the states are likely to follow suit. Expect that e-commerce/mail order exception for sales taxes to get slammed shut, for example.
|4.9.09 @ 10:16AM|#
Expect that e-commerce/mail order exception for sales taxes to get slammed shut, for example.
It's my understanding that it already is closed in some states, Pro
L.
And some of the talk coming out out of Tallahassee lately makes me
suspect it won't be long before Fla follows.
It's going to be tough going for the state and a lot of cities and
counties after the spending binge they went on as the various
bubbles inflated.
A lot of promises were made and there's going to be some seriously
aggrieved parties when they're not kept.
I'm waiting for Orlando to cancel the center for the arts. I'm
really looking forward to seeing the opera and ballet lovers
rioting in the streets.
robc|4.9.09 @ 10:20AM|#
At least 10 states are considering some kind of major
increase in sales or income taxes
KY wasnt on the list but ours went into effect April 1. An increase
from 0% to 6% sales tax on booze.
They tried to raise the excise tax but instead ended up applying
the general sales tax to liquor instead.
|4.9.09 @ 10:21AM|#
New York has adopted a nexus viewpoint that hits on-line
affiliate marketers (like Amazon.com and its affiliate program),
but I think even that law leaves out pure e-commerce sales into the
state if there's no other point of nexus (e.g., offices or stores
in the state). The New York strategy is spreading, with California
likely to be the next major state to adopt that kind of law.
There's some question as to the constitutionality of such laws, but
hey, no court is likely to deny the government access to
revenues.
There was a federal bill intended to simplify collection of sales
tax, so that retailers could manage national sales without getting
all twisted up into how to comply with each state's tax laws. I'll
be surprised if that doesn't come back to life.
|4.9.09 @ 10:23AM|#
I'm half-expecting the feds to pull a smoke-and-mirrors move and
stop collecting income taxes since they can just rob us by
inflating the currency.
-jcr
guy in the back row|4.9.09 @ 10:24AM|#
California and New York lawmakers already have agreed on
multibillion-dollar tax increases that went into effect earlier
this year.
One great thing about Spitser's dalliance (besides the jokes and
photoshopped pics) is that we got David Patterson as gov. He's
asking union members to ignore their leaders and push for wage cuts
to avoid layoffs. He's asking for increase (not the base, just
increases) to be cut from the bloated hospital budgets. He seems
like an upright guy who is trying to at least control
spending.
Of course, everyone and their mother are giving him hell, showing
commercials that he will personally kill millions of New York
children and disabled people with these cuts.
Nick|4.9.09 @ 10:26AM|#
I also enjoy how the "tax cut" is being referred to as a tax credit. That way it makes the Libs look generous, because they are giving us money! Even if it was ours to being with.
|4.9.09 @ 10:30AM|#
"...total U.S. tax rates are jerking northward toward 1970s
levels, all at a time when the president and his economic advisers
talk about kick-starting consumer spending. It's
curious."
Curious? It's stupid.
Raising taxes during recessions is stupid.
Our leaders have no idea what they're doing.
|4.9.09 @ 10:30AM|#
In theory, I believe, you are already obligated to declare your
out-of-state purchases and cough up a "use tax" equal to the sales
tax which would have been charged, had you bought the item
locally.
*outright, prolonged laughter*
|4.9.09 @ 10:30AM|#
My NY tax return required me to declare how much I paid for out of state goods to be shipped to me in NY so they could calculate sales tax for my income tax filing liability. I said $0.00. I don't know anyone who would say otherwise. If they want to collect taxes on that stuff they'll need to implement it at the point of purchase because no one is going to keep track of that stuff. Even if they audited me, how would they prove I bought anything from out of state. I didn't make a lot of online purchases in 2008. I don't know if any of them were from out of state, nor do I care. USPS and FedEx didn't care and they were potentially transporting my stuff across state lines.
creech|4.9.09 @ 10:31AM|#
Once a state program is enacted, there seems to be no way to cut the program out. So where are states going to get the money to continue programs without raising taxes? Gutless pols won't act until they know a majority will support cutting any particular program. And, unfortunately, people respond to the spin that compassion demands x,y & z programs continue to there will be riots, kids starving, cars crashing, and vital services disrupted by unions striking. Libertarians can be outspoken because we have nothing to lose. The other parties won't because they do.
|4.9.09 @ 10:31AM|#
I'll be surprised if that doesn't come back to life.
Yeah, the same thing occurs to me.
|4.9.09 @ 10:34AM|#
Paterson is good? WTF? I missed that memo. He's trying to implement all sorts of new taxes. This is one guy I don't need to be ninja to attack. Grillmaster Nick can walk up to him and smack him in the face with a spatula. He's horrible.
|4.9.09 @ 10:36AM|#
P Brooks,
The thing is, sales tax is collected by retailers, so the states
aren't going to try to start some popular outrage by prosecuting
some people who didn't voluntarily pay sales tax on some Amazon.com
books.
Interestingly, some brick-and-mortar businesses are pushing this
sort of reform to cut back the competitive advantage than pure
on-line/catalog businesses have.
|4.9.09 @ 10:36AM|#
The annual increases in the payroll tax ceiling are rarely
talked about even though the increases in this tax have really
dwarfed the changes in income tax rate changes over the past 8
years. Overall, Bush raised taxes.
The AMT hit also gets worse every year, not doing anything about it
is the same as raising taxes on a big group of people, including
me. Fuck Obama
T|4.9.09 @ 10:42AM|#
In theory, I believe, you are already obligated to declare
your out-of-state purchases and cough up a "use tax" equal to the
sales tax which would have been charged, had you bought the item
locally.
Didn't some of the states start going after online cigarette buyers
for this very reason?
|4.9.09 @ 10:42AM|#
"
I'm half-expecting the feds to pull a smoke-and-mirrors move and
stop collecting income taxes since they can just rob us by
inflating the currency.
-jcr
"
You seem to be forgetting the real purpose of the income tax. To
force you to submit to your rulers. Spend at least a few hours
every year answering detailed questions about every aspect/penny of
your financial life...with a total deletion of your rights to plead
the 5th. To assert the fact that under this tyranny you are guilty
until you can prove your innocence. To justify the maintenence of a
spying/wiretapping/brutal force of thugs who have the ability to
crush anyone in this country at anytime.
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 10:42AM|#
Suck it, EVERYONE!!!! Bartender, bitches! My income is more or less off the books! Boo-yah!!!
robc|4.9.09 @ 10:42AM|#
Law-breaker Nick
I do the same on my personal taxes but my business pays our use
tax. Much easier audit situation and something the state will
actually go after if they happen to be auditing.
|4.9.09 @ 10:44AM|#
Actually, I foresee state governments trying to arm-twist the credit card companies into collecting their taxes for them, on on-line purchases. That's probably where they have leverage.
Jerry|4.9.09 @ 10:44AM|#
I wonder what Krugman has to say about this, raising taxes isn't exactly Keynesian, as it is a form of forced saving.
robc|4.9.09 @ 10:44AM|#
Naga,
Do you not use a SQUIRREL or equivalent POS type system?
Places with those have caused waiters/bartenders to be reasonably
legal from what I understand.
|4.9.09 @ 10:44AM|#
Ya I'm pretty sure they will not give up the income tax unless they have too. It's like think Hitler was about to just decide that burning jews was too much trouble with all the fre firewood available in the forests. You are being extremely naive by assuming the people running this country are as lazy and benevolent as us.
|4.9.09 @ 10:49AM|#
Naga-
They'll "calculate" your tips based on the register receipts;
unless you're working out of a cigar box, which probably wouldn't
thrill your employer.
Personal anecdote alert:
Many years ago, I frequented a cool little bar in Colorado Springs.
Every evening, at about ten-thirty, the owner would come in and
change the tape in the register. It didn't take me long to figure
out why.
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 10:50AM|#
robc,
Foolish talk! I use stupid infoGenesis. Fucking IBM sucks! They tip
allocate me as if I make about $70 bucks in tips a night. My
paycheck after 401k contributions and insurance is about 27
dollars. Add to that the fact that I don't even own a credit
card,rarely use my debit card, and don't have lots of flashy
hi-tech items in my home and the ability to track my actual income
is almost impossible.
krugman is an idiot|4.9.09 @ 10:50AM|#
"I wonder what Krugman has to say about this, raising taxes
isn't exactly Keynesian, as it is a form of forced saving."
Oh, he'll like it for sure, he thinks the spending multiplier is 5x
or something like that...
(Plus our wise overlords will spend it better than us peasants for
sure... way to escape the paradox of thrift!)
♪|4.9.09 @ 10:50AM|#
That is, if you narrow the definition of "tax" to "federal income tax" (as opposed to, say, federal cigarette taxes or carbon surchages)
Not to mention, the inflation tax.
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 10:52AM|#
P Brooks,
Most places, yes. I've worked in several of them. Casinos
apparently don't work that way. To much cash flowing around. The
IRS makes me sign a tip agreement. I have to claim that amount
regardless of whether I make it or not. IRS clowns figured a cash
bar in an Asian restaurant would be dead. They are completely
wrong.
|4.9.09 @ 11:06AM|#
What makes this even worse is that the money is going to do
nothing but pay off bureaucracies and political chronies. It would
be one thing if they were taking the money and using it for the
less fortuneate. But that is not what they are doing. If I hear one
more Dem talk about how we are going to have a European style
social welfare state, I am going to vomit.
A European style social welfare state? Really? Ok, in Europe you
have great unemployment benefits and mandated vacation and paid
maternity leave and every other imaginable goody. A middle class
job in Europe is good work if you can get it, which is really hard
but that is another point.
I fully understand the destructive nature of the policies I list
above. But for all of their faults they do offer some benefits. But
we won't be getting any of those. Instead, we are going to get all
of the high taxes, job killing regulation, high unemployment and
economic stagnation of Europe, but get none of the social program
benefits. Basically, BO is going to take the money and give it to
the bankers and his political chronies. If liberals had any values
or beliefs in anything beyond power, they would be sickened by
Obama.
squarooticus|4.9.09 @ 11:11AM|#
"
I'm half-expecting the feds to pull a smoke-and-mirrors move and stop collecting income taxes since they can just rob us by inflating the currency.
-jcr
"
You seem to be forgetting the real purpose of the income tax. To force you to submit to your rulers.
Agreed.
The other issue, of course, is that if the Feds replaced taxation
with inflation, the value of US Treasury bonds would drop to zero
overnight, taking the dollar with them, which would destroy the
ability of the US to engage in international trade.
The only reason our bonds have any value is that there is an
expectation that they will be worth more in terms of real
purchasing power at maturity than the buyer pays for them. If
inflation is made to explicitly replace taxation, there is no way
this can be true over the long term.
phalkor|4.9.09 @ 11:13AM|#
When I was wheeling pizzas around for a summer I was advised to
report 50 cents to 2 dollars in tips each night. Roughly 1% of the
total income for the night. That money, brought home in cash, never
made it to a bank or anything. Being cash, it felt very much like
"my money" and I'll be damned if I'm going to submit it to
taxes.
When (if? it happens doesn't it?) the federal government starts
harassing delivery drivers, waiters, and bartenders I am
saddened.
The research and force to find out how much is owed probably is
more than the tax in the first place.
|4.9.09 @ 11:18AM|#
God damn it phalkor, people have to pay their taxes. What you did was a crime. You un-patriotic little bastard. Don't think we are not going to go after you and every other bartender, waitress and delivery person who doesn't pay their taxes. Tax fraud is not something we can ever tolerate.
|4.9.09 @ 11:23AM|#
Naga,
Little people pay their taxes or they get crushed. Don't you ever
forget that. The piss ants of this world aren't getting out of
anything, period.
Warty|4.9.09 @ 11:30AM|#
You took X's meme to a whole 'nother level there, Naga.
Shut the fuck up, Timothy Geithner.
|4.9.09 @ 11:33AM|#
Just because I mistakenly didn't pay $40,000 in taxes over three years doesn't mean that I can't squash cheats like Phalkor. I am an important person. I worked for the IMF for God's sake. I am allowed to make the occasional mistakes. People who can find nothing better to do than tend bar or deliver pizza, aren't.
|4.9.09 @ 11:35AM|#
Show of hands kiddies.
How many here advocate for a flat tax?
How many here think that the financial crowd ripped US off?
How many here think they too deserve special exemption and
treatment, well, just because they're special?
How many here think "Chocolate Jesus is Magic" is cute and
funny?
Booyah! boys, the level of psuedotestoserone around here is thick
enough to choke a chicken, quite a few it seems. How will the
circle be broken. Tug on that a while.
|4.9.09 @ 11:37AM|#
There's a really interesting court case that could set a huge
tax precedent between MA and NH - MA sent revenue agents to Town
Fair Tires stores and they audited them. MA claims that Town Fair
Tires didn't require its customers from MA to pay a "dues tax"
because they would be transporting their goods back to MA.
MA believes that the solution for this is for all NH retailers to
ask for ID from every customer to see what state they're from, for
those from MA assess and charge extra for the dues tax, and then
give that dues tax to the MA government.
Or, since that's too hard, MA might just come up with an arbitrary
fee to cover dues tax that they will attempt to levy on NH
retailers.
MASSSSSSSSSHHHHHHOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEESSSS!!!!
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 11:41AM|#
OH!!!! Fuck you joe and your law!
I'm in it to win it! In it to win it! Damn joe and his
legacy!!!
Warty|4.9.09 @ 11:55AM|#
Booyah! boys, the level of psuedotestoserone around here is
thick enough to choke a chicken, quite a few it seems. How will the
circle be broken. Tug on that a while.
The cult punctures a rip. Into the clipped patient prevails the
supernatural signal. Does your bowl initialize the widespread
algorithm?
The ghost strains the anger.
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 12:02PM|#
Domo,
As I understand it, basically if you're trying to make a snarky
reply, you will foul it up and make yourself look stupid. I usually
accomplish this without having spelling errors but nobody's
perfect.
Warty|4.9.09 @ 12:09PM|#
The arrested highway maps the scholar. A distinctive developer dines Mexico. Lonewacko breaks a vanishing shareholder under the monarch stuff. Lonewacko locates the promised tourist. Lonewacko ruins Mexico.
Warty|4.9.09 @ 12:10PM|#
This is the greatest site in the history of the world.
Mexico stones the holder beneath a grouped surplus. The lawyer
swallows Mexico inside the strategic shareholder. The boot buggers
Mexico inside a wrecker. When can Mexico tower in Lonewacko?
Lonewacko queries the expired sentence.
Menstrual Retardation|4.9.09 @ 12:12PM|#
"Naga, what is/was joez law? I never did get that..."
When the going gets rough, RUN!!!
|4.9.09 @ 12:14PM|#
Bwahahaha:
A flexible leadership acts outside fisting. Why can't the pragmatic
combat bake the automobile? Does this smoking shed oblige
domoarrigato? Why can't fisting snack across a culprit?
Domoarrigato flutes any bright emulator. Domoarrigato balls the
prophet after a latter consent.
|4.9.09 @ 12:16PM|#
Naga - is it joe's law because it happens to people when they were responding to joe, or because joe did it all the time?
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 12:16PM|#
You're a genius, Domo! I'm gonna use that phrase! "Ball the prophet"? Teh AWESome!!!
|4.9.09 @ 12:19PM|#
everyone just remember that when they feel temped to fuck with me: I ball the prophet...
Warty|4.9.09 @ 12:23PM|#
P Brooks sighs beside the taint. P Brooks pays the taint. The reject surnames the mediaeval mirror after the bus. The light wings P Brooks. The garbled wonder expands on top of the taint. The identical backspace ascends with the vinyl.
|4.9.09 @ 12:23PM|#
Beneath the automobile strays dwarf porn. Naga Sadow pieces this neighborhood. The ashamed shutdown decays. Naga Sadow messes with an interview. Naga Sadow degenerates across the obstruction. Naga Sadow arms dwarf porn below the faithful highway.
Naga Sadow|4.9.09 @ 12:24PM|#
Domo,
I can't remember exactly. I rarely argue directly with people here.
I even give MNG a wide berth. Joe was a special case in that he
wouldn't argue your facts but the details of your facts the way a
good lawyer will bullshit a police officer in a courtroom over a
DUI.
"I'm gonna need to see your dash cam tapes again. Cuz just from the
looks of it . . . why did you pull him over and not this guy here,
here, here, and here? Was there something special about why you
pulled him over? Suspcicious behavior? Your definition makes me
wonder why you don't pull over everyone. Speeding? So was this car,
and this car, and this one, etc. Weaving in and out of traffic? So
was this guy, and this guy, and this guy is speeding, on his cell
phone, and weaving? Why my client? Why did you pull him
over?"
Note: This is how my lawyer talks to police in a courtroom. Cops
HATE him. His problem is if he thinks your guilty. He won't really
try unless he KNOWS you're innocent.
|4.9.09 @ 12:27PM|#
This site is great. Here's
one for the Urkobold:
A mandatory lesson precedes Urkobold beneath a trapped forum. Taint graduates near Urkobold. Taint gloves the bicycle. When will the saved neighborhood finance an overpriced diet? The drill refreshes taint.
The drill refreshes taint, indeed.
JB|4.9.09 @ 12:27PM|#
It's not curious, it's retarded. All these stupid socialists are ruining the economic engine of the planet. When the real crisis comes, they will be remembered and they will get theirs.
|4.9.09 @ 12:31PM|#
The drill refreshes taint
surely reversing a withered taint is a breakthrough of monumental
proportions!
phalkor|4.9.09 @ 12:49PM|#
To Mr. Timothy Geithner I have only one question:
When will the outgoing circle fork an ass?
|4.9.09 @ 1:04PM|#
Can withering exemplify taint? Every voice coins a fairy. Withering cures taint beneath a quarter offender. Against taint struggles withering.
|4.9.09 @ 1:20PM|#
*Bronwyn enters, only to quickly retreat again, shutting the
door behind her and hoping no one noticed her entry.*
*pops head back in to say...*
The bugs diameter sprays a contempt below the thin infant.
Ska|4.9.09 @ 1:24PM|#
I said $0.00. I don't know anyone who would say
otherwise.
The reason NY started with this in the early part of the decade was
because they were seeing really expensive art show up as gifts on
gift tax returns, as charitable donations or capital gains on
personal returns, and as assets on estate returns, but never seeing
sales tax because the item was bought out of state or overseas.
Customs forms filled out at airports and sales tax audits of
vendors from other states will also clue NY in on any of these
types of large purchases. Now, 8.375% of, say, $500,000 is
something worth getting your hands on. And there are serious
penalties for the taxpayers and prepares for not reporting
this.
If you're a rich dude buying expensive shit out of town, you would
strongly consider paying the use tax.
As for PL's point upthread, physical presence is taking a back seat
to economic performance as the test of state nexus. That's where
most states are headed.
|4.9.09 @ 2:31PM|#
The taint spreads new meaning to screen saver.
As a reformed soda jerk ... no make that pizza delivery
entrepmanure I was always so randy after not paying for all the
damned roads I used. I tell ya the fucking stop signs and tri-color
Gov obedience controls stole money from every time I went out.
Bastards.
Paul|4.9.09 @ 2:58PM|#
And that doesn't include tax increases that occur without legislative interference, at all. Take property taxes. The county or state can merely reassess your house at a much higher value, therefore increasing your tax burden without any law being passed, any tweak to regulation, anything. *Poof* your taxes just went up because now your house is worth $450,000. All of this despite a real market price decline of your property value.
|4.9.09 @ 3:34PM|#
As bad as the income tax is, property taxes are worse. I should be able to own a home without paying rent to the government. Jesus.
T|4.9.09 @ 3:38PM|#
As bad as the income tax is, property taxes are worse. I
should be able to own a home without paying rent to the government.
Jesus.
Yup. You own something, so pay us money. WTF? At least Texas
doesn't tax my dog, like North Carolina did.
engineer|4.9.09 @ 6:17PM|#
Actually, I wouldn't mind if they replaced the income tax with a site rental value tax (SRVT), which has the advantage of not creating deadweight economic losses and being non-punitive towards success and efficiency.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245