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Unbelievers Unwelcome
Today the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty reminded the Arkansas legislature that "the free expression of religious belief, together with what James Madison called 'the full and equal rights of conscience,' should apply to people of all religious traditions—including atheists." It added that "government should no more penalize a person for professing atheism than for professing a belief in Christianity, Buddhism or Islam." You might wonder why this lesson in tolerance was necessary in 21st-century America. It turns out that Arkansas is one of the few states whose constitutions still bar nonbelievers from holding government jobs or testifying in court. According to the Becket Fund, the others are Tennessee and Texas. The Washington Post counts twice as many states in this category, but it does not name them.
Last week Rep. Richard Carroll (G-North Little Rock) introduced a bill (PDF) that would amend the state constitution to remove the anti-atheist rule, which says, "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court." Since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned a similar Maryland ban in 1961, Becket Fund National Litigation Director Eric Rassbach notes, "it is unlikely that these laws will ever be enforced." Still, he says, repealing them "signals to U.S. citizens and to the rest of the world that the freedom and sanctity of conscience—including the right to believe there is no God at all—is a fundamental right for all people."
In 2007 I noted how Mitt Romney (remember him?) tried to get ahead by dissing atheists.
Warty|2.17.09 @ 6:50PM|#
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Fabian Socialist|2.17.09 @ 6:51PM|#
"it is unlikely that these laws will ever be enforced." Still,
he says, repealing them "signals to U.S. citizens and to the rest
of the world that the freedom and sanctity of conscience-including
the right to believe there is no God at all-is a fundamental right
for all people."
You think.
The two steps back will come from all the other shit that gets
amended.
Mad Max|2.17.09 @ 7:16PM|#
The Becket Fund is saying that atheists should have the right to
be elected or appointed to public office or to testify in
court.
So if the voters elect an atheist to the Arkansas legislature, that
person has the same right to serve as if he were, say, a
Baptist.
This principle *doesn't* mean voters have to elect atheists to
office, or that when they enter the ballot box they have to close
their eyes to a candidate's religious beliefs. Romney is entitled
to appeal to the voters on religious grounds. Voters are free to
ignore him - or at least to apply their religious grounds to
*other* candidates, not him.
cuernimus|2.17.09 @ 7:27PM|#
I really wonder how many people would even know about these laws
existence if this Becket Fund didn't bring them up. It makes me
think of someone discovering this in an Indiana Jonesque
fashion.
(Indiana Jones picks up ancient clay tablet, blows off thick layer
of dust before tracing fingers over writing)
Jones:"It appears to be written in some sort of ancient Southern
Baptist dialect...No person who denies the being of a God shall
hold any office in the civil departments of this State...Only he
who handleth the serpent and partake of the cyanide shall be deemed
worthy."
(Stereotypical bad dude wearing khaki fatigues and wielding a Luger
grabs stone tablet and makes for the exit only to be bitten on the
dick by a viper. Proceeds to froth at mouth and convulse in the
agony of death).
Jones: "It just had to be snakes..."
|2.17.09 @ 7:28PM|#
I should get upset about the blatant discrimination against
atheists that pervades our society and elected officials
encourage.
I couldn't get elected without lying. That's why ~75 members of
congress lie about their non-belief.
It sucks. Not a whole lot, but it does. I speak truth and am
discriminated against because of it. Still, I won't be starting or
joining any atheist advocacy groups. There are far too many
professional victims and I refuse to join the pity me parade.
I must admit, I would love to see a bible belt prosecutor move to
prevent a witness from testifying over it.
the innominate one|2.17.09 @ 7:40PM|#
Mad Max - no shit, and we are free to criticize Romney for being superstitious and guilty of ad hominem arguments
Michael P.|2.17.09 @ 7:45PM|#
I couldn't get elected without lying. That's why ~75 members
of congress lie about their non-belief.
Is one of the "practical" justifications for preventing atheists
from holding office the notion that the bible serves as some kind
of gold standard against which one can be sworn to honestly uphold
their duties? Just wondering.
|2.17.09 @ 7:53PM|#
OK Warty, I give up. Is that ASCII art of a donkey humping a chick dressed like Madalyn Murray O'Hair? Wait, maybe it's a Rorschach test and I just gave myself away. Shit.
Naga Sadow|2.17.09 @ 8:09PM|#
*reads Episiarch's comment*
*takes another look at Warty's . . . art*
You know. Now that you mention it Epi . . .
Dave|2.17.09 @ 8:14PM|#
"nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court".
So, couldn't a bunch of atheists really screw up the courts by
demanding that they enforce this rule whenever they are called to
be witnesses?
"Hoist by their own petard" comes to mind.
BakedPenguin|2.17.09 @ 8:17PM|#
Dave, I was thinking the same thing. Used selectively, it could be an enjoyable tactic.
BakedPenguin|2.17.09 @ 8:26PM|#
Rep. Richard Carroll (G-North Little Rock)
BTW, what the hell is a "G"? Green?
|2.17.09 @ 8:31PM|#
That's why ~75 members of congress lie about their non-belief.
Only 75? Out of 535? I suspect it's much higher.
The elites have a way of thinking that ye oldtyme religion is good
to keep the masses in line. Naturally, they do have to pretend,
else the hoi polloi might catch on.
Hell, I'd not be the least surprised if half the famous evangelists
weren't closet atheists.
MAX HATS|2.17.09 @ 8:35PM|#
The elites have a way of thinking that ye oldtyme religion is good to keep the masses in line.
I think you have it exactly backwards.
Elemenope|2.17.09 @ 8:36PM|#
The elites have a way of thinking that ye oldtyme religion
is good to keep the masses in line. Naturally, they do have to
pretend, else the hoi polloi might catch on.
Seneca sez: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by
the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Taktix®|2.17.09 @ 8:41PM|#
Mad Max - no shit, and we are free to criticize Romney for
being superstitious and guilty of ad hominem arguments
Don't forget about the special Jesus underpants...
MNG|2.17.09 @ 8:43PM|#
Mitt Romney was one of the lowest forms of life to ever run for
political office in my time. There was little this man would not
say, and no tone with which he would not say it, in order to be
elected to office. When this man was repudiated by the electorate,
it was one of the greatest days to be an American in my life.
The guy was the emptiest of empty suits...
Shorter and More Honest Mitt|2.17.09 @ 8:46PM|#
"To the extent you and I agree on religious matters, consider it big time when you vote! And to the extent we disagree on those matters, please ignore under the principle of religous freedom! Oh, and damn those evil athiests! Carry on."
Hugh Akston|2.17.09 @ 8:48PM|#
"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."
No buddhists in them foxholes either, I imagine.
Also, Warty, my heartiest congratulations on finding a new way to
drive the level of discourse on this blog even further into the
turlet.
|2.17.09 @ 8:51PM|#
@Episiarch,
It's a version of this ...
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Also known as *facepalm*
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Not_This_Shit_Again
VM|2.17.09 @ 8:55PM|#
BakedPenguin | February 17, 2009, 8:26pm | #
Rep. Richard Carroll (G-North Little Rock)
BTW, what the hell is a "G"? Green?
why, "fucktard", of course.
Naga Sadow|2.17.09 @ 8:57PM|#
This is too much. First Stevo's bizarre "Is dancer (link) turning clockwise or counter-clockwise?" picture messes with my head now this shit.
|2.17.09 @ 9:11PM|#
Mitt Romney was one of the lowest forms of life to ever run for political office in my time.
His father, on the other hand, was an exceptionally decent man. The
kind that might make you think there was something to this
Mormonism after all.
|2.17.09 @ 9:13PM|#
MNG-
Romney, IMO, in many ways, is a fraud. One of the reasons may not
upset you, but when he came into office as governor in January of
2003, his administration promptly raised the filing fees for just
about everything-from incorporating a business to divorce. Some
fees tripled and quadrupled. Courtesy of a guy committed to "tax
cuts".
Oh, but there is so much more. Typical born on third base and
thinks that he hit a grand slam. But, there are a lot of those guys
in the democrat party, too.
MNG|2.17.09 @ 9:22PM|#
libertymike
I don't like growth in government expense for no good reason, so
that's an extra reason to hate Mitt for me. File it under reason
1,213.
And, you might be suprised how many "guys in the democrat party" I
despise. If I have to think of of my favorite Democratic federal
officials my list is thus: Jim Webb, Mark Warner, Jack Reed, Byron
Dorgan...That is all.
Nathan A. Stine|2.17.09 @ 10:12PM|#
Mr. Penguin,
Yes, the G stands for Green.
Funny story. No Republican ran for the seat and the Democrat who
ran was corrupt. Part of his "bargain" was that he wouldn't run
again and in turn they let him finish out his term.
Well he decided to file on the day of the deadline. The AR
Democrats threw him off the ballot, leaving only our friend from
the Green Party.
Lovely isn't it?
BakedPenguin|2.17.09 @ 10:45PM|#
Nathan, I have to admit, I'm surprised by a Green in AR, even in
Little Rock. Although your story reminds me of when David Duke was
running against Edwards in LA. A racist vs a felon. I was pissed
that the Libertarians couldn't field a warm body to say "hey, I'm
not a thief or a Klansman"
He still would have lost, but probably would have gotten a decent
percentage.
|2.17.09 @ 11:07PM|#
Although your story reminds me of when David Duke was running against Edwards in LA. A racist vs a felon. I was pissed that the Libertarians couldn't field a warm body to say "hey, I'm not a thief or a Klansman"
BakedPenguin, that couldn't happen. You see, Duke and Edwards
finished in the top 2 of Lousiana's open primary. What happened is
that, roughly, the sane candidates split the normal vote, but the
Klan and crook votes each only had one guy to vote for. The
incumbent governor, Buddy Romer (IIRC) finished third. Duke and
Edwards were the runoff.
It's the same way that Le Pen made it through the first round in
France, which uses a similar system as their former colony.
On the one hand, the open primary did mean that a libertarian
always could choose to run. But not in the runoff.
|2.17.09 @ 11:09PM|#
Roemer (a Republican) had massively pissed off the teachers union, which played a large role in his downfall. The teachers were glad to vote for the crook if it meant that they got theirs.
ana casuncad|2.17.09 @ 11:16PM|#
At first, I couldn't believe it but when I read about "Arkansas
is one of the few states whose constitutions still bar nonbelievers
from holding government jobs or testifying in court", I started
to.
Can't imagine myself being one of those barred for this. It's still
not a case is it? Anyway, it's always nice to know that there are
places on earth like Arkansas. I'm from the Philippines, BTW.
Ana
Jeff P|2.18.09 @ 12:22AM|#
I thought it was a picture of a priest's hand stroking the head of an alter boy...
|2.18.09 @ 3:01AM|#
"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office
in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify
as a witness in any court."
A "god" huh. So conceivably I could choose to worship the flying
spaghetti monster and that would pass?
And if not then who gets to define what is and isn't a "god"?
Abdul|2.18.09 @ 7:27AM|#
Romney tried to get ahead by dissing atheists? Outrageous! It's not like any politicians or pundits tried to get ahead by dissing his religion, or Obama's preacher, or Palin's fundamentalism, or Huckabee's. . .
Some Guy|2.18.09 @ 7:32AM|#
Hell, I'd not be the least surprised if half the famous
evangelists weren't closet atheists.
If they actually believed in Hell, there's no way they'd act the
way they do.
Todd Frye|2.18.09 @ 8:04AM|#
The Tennessee state constitution does not bar atheists from
public office. These two items are right near the top:
Section 3. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to
worship Al-
mighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience; that
no man can of
right be compelled to attend, erect, or support any place of
worship, or to maintain
any minister against his consent; that no human authority can, in
any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of
conscience; and that no preference shall ever be given, by law, to
any religious establishment or mode of worship.
Section 4. That no political or religious test, other than an oath
to support the
Constitution of the United States and of this state, shall ever be
required as a
qualification to any office or public trust under this state.
Warty|2.18.09 @ 8:09AM|#
I don't know what the second one is, SugarFree, but it turns me on just a smidgen. The first is Picard, of course, who should turn everyone on.
Zubon|2.18.09 @ 8:34AM|#
I bet there are a great many civil servants and witnesses who would deny the being of Thor, Eris, and/or Crom. These people are failing to believe in whole pantheons of gods. Let's see some enforcement here.
Guy_Smiley|2.18.09 @ 8:42AM|#
I say that the right to religion includes the right
from religion necessarily.
Of course, this implies that the right to life includes the right
to die, which nobody seems to understand.
Abdul|2.18.09 @ 9:00AM|#
this implies that the right to life includes the right to
die, which nobody seems to understand.
I understand. I keep trying to waive my right to die, and no one
gets that either.
|2.18.09 @ 10:04AM|#
I couldn't get elected without lying.
That seems to be true regardless of your religious beliefs.
|2.18.09 @ 10:38AM|#
It seems to me that the problem is not the Belief in a Supreme Being but the doctrine of organised religions which appears to be of a low moral and ethical standard and more about politics, raking in the cash and the self aggrandisement of the hierarchy than about goodness.It is possible to believe in a Creator because the world is extraordinary but Genesis is clearly derived from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Enuma Elish, Mesopotamian Myths which vastly predate the Bible and there is overwhelming proof that these are the source because of the thousands of points of comparison, yet these are about multiple Gods and do not include Jehovah or Allah. But don't believe me because I have written it, look it up,study the real historical provenance, not the spin, have a look at the Codex Siniaticus and the conclusions of Prof Tischendorf.Don't be a rubber stamp,look for yourself and then decide who you will employ and why.
LarryA|2.18.09 @ 6:27PM|#
Too bad we can't just enforce the U.S. Constitution. From Article VI:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
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