NYC Jailhouse Blues

From Hit and Run comment all-star who goes under the moniker "Kwais," a harrowing personal memoir of spending a couple of days in a New York jail. He's a military contractor in his day job, and on his way back home to Nevada, he ran afoul of NYC gun laws while trying to declare a weapon he needs professionally in his checked bags flying out of Kennedy.

While an awful experience for Kwais, it does give a real and disturbing look at the realities of what criminal justice gets us in the U.S.: miserable, wasteful holding pens for people who run afoul of cops on suspicion of having something to do with the sale or moving of drugs that please some and apparently really, really aggravate others. (Or, in one case, the crime of providing transportation services without a proper license.)

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  • 34568776||

    Pales in comparison to this:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/01/22/2009-01-22_guards_plead_not_guilty_in_nightmare_rik-1.html

  • ||

    His tools were legal where he'd been and ok where he was going, but he couldn't carry them through NY. Once resided in NJ where my tools were legal (not anymore and not in NJ), but never transported through NY, took the long way to anywhere just to avoid the one in a million fubar.

    I'd really like to know how he pays 'no taxes'...does he work offshore to the max exemption and then return to our world? That's a story in itself.

  • Dave W.||

    I have given kwais a hard time in the past, and never thought I would see the day where I would feel bad for him. Sorry to hear about your ordeal and continuing concerns, kwais. maybe the silver lining is that this will get you back into the civilian sector as I have long tried to encourage you to do. I just wish it didn't have to happen this way. You don't deserve it.

  • ||

    First of all, glad your out and I hope it doesn't cause problems later.

    If the cops didn't think a crime was commited what was the basis for the arrest? Did someone else file a complaint, like the airline or something?

    I think they played bad cop good cop. They were the good cops and the bad cop was the invisible one telling them to arrest you anyway. Even when cops seem sincere, you can't really trust them.

  • ||

    It sounds like kwais isn't the only person this has happened to.

    Something's definitely wrong when the War on Terror starts ensnaring the people who are doing the actual fighting the War on Terror.

    The Port Authority or the City of New York or whoever it is, they should be ashamed of themselves.

  • ||

    Dave W.

    Do you not think there should be a military? Or do you just not think I should be part of it?

    Ken Shultz
    It was the port authority that arrested me.

  • ||

    Oh, and the guys who apparently got busted for their dad's vitamins, that's pretty messed up.

    Busting people for charging to give someone a ride across town, that's pretty messed up too.

    I always figured the subways in New York probably seemed pretty scary to the average person, maybe it's better than the risk of getting pulled over and having to deal with the police.

  • ||

    kwais, glad you're out without a rap sheet. good luck in iraq, or wherever...

  • ||

    I literally fear the possibility of ending up in a similar situation. Not weapons-related, but any contact with the cops which might end with me in custody. I'm kind of "claustrophobic".

    I'm glad Kwais was able to keep himself under control. And I hope there are no lingering record-related issues.

    I also have a practical question: would it be possible, under similar circumstances, to ship the weapon to yourself?

  • ||

    So this guy refuses to pay income taxes, truly believes the NRA is the greatest organization defending US civil rights today (with a bonus dig against the perfectly competent ACLU), and thinks that the NYPD is corrupt and/or incompetent because they arrested people who violated a host of real, if perhaps misguided, criminal statutes.

    Disagreeing with the government on ideology doesn't mean that you get to ignore the laws of the land, even if you are wrongfully arrested.

  • ||

    """And I hope there are no lingering record-related issues."""

    I hope so too. Sadly, if he encounters the questions, ever been arrested? or spent time in jail? What should his answer be? That's the fucked up thing about being arrested when the situation does call for it. You were still arrested.

  • Kolohe||

    They said they were sorry, that if I had gone out of La Guardia instead of out of Kennedy, that I would have been smooth sailing.

    I didn't understand this. Isn't La Guardia also run by the Port Authority? (and in the same county of the State of New York?)

  • ||

    PBox,
    Those three kids that got arrested for the box of vitamins. What did they do wrong?

    The guys that the cops found no drugs on, what? The rules of evidence doesn't apply to them?

    BTW I was following TSA guidelines. And following local laws to the best of my ability

  • ||

    """I didn't understand this. Isn't La Guardia also run by the Port Authority? (and in the same county of the State of New York?)"""

    It is, and both are in Queens. I think the cops were just BSing him making it sound like they didn't really want to do it. We have to do it because it's JFK. They did it because they wanted to dispite what they told him.

  • ||

    ""BTW I was following TSA guidelines. And following local laws to the best of my ability""

    So why did they cops feel the had to arrest you again? For following the rules. My bet is they didn't know the rules, you had a gun, they felt they could arrest you for it, they would let a judge really decide if you did anything wrong.

    Don't think for a moment they were on your side.

  • ||

    They did it because they wanted to, dispite what they told him.

    That's better

  • ||

    I spent a few days in jail for crossing my jurisdictions leftist gun laws. My eventual sentence was less than the one given to an actual carjacker. Yep, you got it, with these genious gun control laws having a gun for self defense is a greater crime than using the gun for an actual crime.

    Fucking liberals...

  • ||

    "Disagreeing with the government on ideology doesn't mean that you get to ignore the laws of the land, even if you are wrongfully arrested."

    What a convoluted bunch of crap!

    What does ideology have to do with this?

    Are you under the impression he thinks they were all in jail for their ideology? Are you under the impression he thinks he was in jail for his ideological stand on gun rights?

    That's called "projection" I think, PBox. If it keeps happening, you should probably seek professional help.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

  • SIV||

    Kwais,

    Will you get your pistol back?

  • ||

    There are a lot of things screwed up about gun laws in NY. In some counties getting a permit is not much harder than applying for it, but in neighboring counties with urban populations (read: black until proven innocent) getting a gun is next to impossible.

    Gov. Patterson just appointed Kirsten Gillibrand (D-Hudson) to take Hilary's vacant Senate seat and there are liberal democrats in this state that are seriously pissed and already talking about challenging her in two years when the next election is held, solely because Gillibrand gets a 100% A+ rating from the NRA. We haven't had a Senator from Upstate in 40 years and this is one reason why. It took an appointment for it to happen. I seriously wish NYC/Long Island was broken off.

    Vermont had it right 200 years ago when they left the State of New York. Coincidentally, Vermont has the best gun laws in the entire country. In other words, they have no gun laws. No license or permit required to carry any gun anywhere any time in plain sight or concealed. Even if you wanted one, you can't get one because they don't have one. It should be that way everywhere.

  • Dave W.||

    I think the US has way too big of a military. I think 9 of 10 people should not be part of it now that Obama is c-in-C. 99 of 100 when that evil man Cheney was in charge. nothing about you personally.

  • The Bearded Hobbit||

    First of all, I'm glad you made it thru without a record.

    This arrogant treatment by the cops is simply a continuing comfirmation of the fact that "WE OWN YOU AND WE CAN FUCK WITH YOU WHENEVER WE WANT" that has overtaken this country.

    I never want to talk to a cop again as long as I live. I doubt that I will be able to fufill that wish.

    .. Hobbit

  • ||

    Disagreeing with the government on ideology doesn't mean that you get to ignore the laws of the land, even if you are wrongfully arrested.


    Hey Pbox: FUCK YOU.

    It used to be illegal to shelter a runaway slave, or to teach a black person to read in many American states. I'm sure that people like you took precisely the same snotty attitude towards people who, like kwais, weren't causing any harm to anyone else.

    -jcr

  • ||

    I think the US has way too big of a military

  • ||

    Crap, didn't close the tag properly.

    I think the US has way too big of a military

    The US military is bigger than the next ten military organizations combined. We could cut it by 80% and still have far more lethal capability than we could possibly need.

    -jcr

  • Bill||

    What is this guy's problem with his public defender? The guy did a good job for him, but even in the comments section he makes a comment about how the other prisoners told him the PD and prosecutor are making secret deals. He is paranoid. And why would you trust the information or advice for the other guys in jail? They usually aren't smart and are very paranoid as well.
    And if you really don't trust the public defender, fire him and defend yourself or hire an attorney. Don't bash the guy who is trying to help you.

  • ||

    "What is this guy's problem with his public defender? The guy did a good job for him, but even in the comments section he makes a comment about how the other prisoners told him the PD and prosecutor are making secret deals."

    I read it like he was passing along what he was hearing. There's nothing wrong with that.

    "He is paranoid. And why would you trust the information or advice for the other guys in jail? They usually aren't smart and are very paranoid as well."

    I disagree about the paranoia.

    But out of curiosity, what is the appropriate response to being arrested and locked up for doing nothing wrong? 'cause in that situation, I think I might have been a basket case.

    Does the term "kafkaesque" mean anything to you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafkaesque

  • ||

    SIV | January 23, 2009, 9:57pm | #
    Kwais,

    Will you get your pistol back?


    That is my next legal challenge. The lawyer said that I would have to sue to get it back (and my suitcase)

  • ||

    Bill | January 23, 2009, 11:40pm | #
    What is this guy's problem with his public defender?


    As Ken Shultz says, I was just passing along what I had heard. I wrote all of that before the case was resolved.

    I was wary. I was told it was going to be dismissed, but in the back of my mind was the thought that I could have ended up spending time in Prison.

    I have to say that the Public defender did deliver. My hat is off to the man. If I ever get a chance to give back to the legal organization that he is from I will. (My feelings are the opposite to the NYPD, the Port Authority, and the prosecutor's office)

  • ||

    Dave W. | January 23, 2009, 11:00pm | #
    I think the US has way too big of a military. I think 9 of 10 people should not be part of it now that Obama is c-in-C. 99 of 100 when that evil man Cheney was in charge. nothing about you personally.


    Right, so what if I want to be that 1 in 10 that continues to be part of the military?

  • ||

    On the La Guardia vs Kennedy thing:

    The people in the jail cell were saying that it was because there have been a lot of Jamaican murders going on in Queens in the Kennedy airport area lately. They thought that might have something to do with it.

    I was thinking it might be that TSA does more in La Guardia, and Port Authority does more in Kennedy.

    Or it might be that the the Sgt in Kennedy is more of a dick than the one in La Guardia.

  • smartass sob||

    Will you get your pistol back?

    That is my next legal challenge. The lawyer said that I would have to sue to get it back (and my suitcase)



    Good luck with that. Chances are it will cost more in legal fees, time, and trouble than what the gun is worth. Those bastards count on that. When it comes to personal property the cops are just a pack of thieves. And the lawyers are no better - they set up the whole system to begin with.

    I'm sorry for your trouble, Kwais. I've been arrested before, myself, and so I'm intimately acquainted with what you went through. I understand your rage and frustration, too, but my advice is to treat it like "spilt milk" and try to put it behind you.

  • Other Matt||

    Hey Pbox: FUCK YOU.

    Seconded. Obviously, Pbox somehow stands for Phuckhead with their head up their ass who didn't actually read the article to see that ideology had nothing at all to do with it.

    That is my next legal challenge. The lawyer said that I would have to sue to get it back (and my suitcase)

    DC handles things this way. They will put you in front of a judge, who will dismiss it because Federal law allows you to transport, but you'll never see your firearms again. Some DC cops must have a huge collection as they all seem to go missing.

  • Other Matt||

    I was thinking it might be that TSA does more in La Guardia, and Port Authority does more in Kennedy.

    Question: You got arrested for violating local laws (thanks Mr Bloomberg, see Pbox and y'all can fuck each other regularly with sharp implements) what does TSA have to do with it? Augmenting what you wrote with what I understand the laws to be, you had an uregistered firearm in NYC. Why the airport person felt the need to contact local authorities is beyond me.

    As for the differences in airports, I swore 27 years ago I would never go to NYC again because the place and I don't get along, and I've held to that. Therefore, I have no idea of the geography, but could it be that one airport is located with the city, and the other is not?

  • ||

    Well, considering 99% of NYC cops are as corrupt as the day is long, I am not surprised at all.

    RT
    www.privacy-tools.net.tc

  • Dave W.||

  • Dave W. corrections||

    Right, so what if I want to be that 1 in 10 that continues to be part of the military?

    Well, first, back then it was still 99 of 100 because Cheney was c-in-c back then.

    second, if you wanted to be the one, then you should have waited for 98% of the military to leave, spent a few years as a bouncer in Reno or maybe a landscaper or something civvie just to kind of see how us taxpayers live, and then re-enlisted.

  • ||

    La Guardia is in Queens (Queens County) and JFK is in Brooklyn (Kings County) both of which, along with Manhattan (New York County), the Bronx (Bronx County), and Staten Island (Richmond County) equal New York City. Yes, 5 counties (wach their own burough) equal one city, it's stupid, I agree, but that's how it works so both airports are in New York City.

    Unless JFK is handled different because its an international airport and La Guardia is domestic flights only (last I checked a couple years ago), I see no reason other than stupid airport employees and crooked cops, why one would operate differently than the other with regard to gun possession.

  • ||

    It's an interesting race to the bottom. Who's the bigger cunts? Cops that are paid to be professional assholes, or their apologists who come on here and are assholes for free.

    Kwis, what they did to you is awful. Fuck them and anyone who loves the taste of their cock.

  • ||

    DC handles things this way. They will put you in front of a judge, who will dismiss it because Federal law allows you to transport, but you'll never see your firearms again. Some DC cops must have a huge collection as they all seem to go missing.

    Well, given the corruption and incompetence that I saw, I am concerned that my firearm might later turn up used for a felony, and that might come back later to haunt me.

    I should at least bring that up legally shouldn't I?

  • ||

    I understand your rage and frustration, too, but my advice is to treat it like "spilt milk" and try to put it behind you.

    "Evil can only flourish when good men don't rise up to resist it".

    I heard a quote something like that on the show "House".

    Not that I am a good man or anything, but I think somewhere here, non existent God has given me a part to play.

  • ||

    or maybe not. Maybe, there is not case just another piece of bad luck, I don't get my gun nor my suitcase back, and I just waste my time and money.

  • VM||

    Good luck to you, Kwais. that's a real bummer. dammit. that sucks. I hope you walk away with all "charges" (since they're bullshit, they have earned " ") dropped/removed/erased, a note of apology from those twaddlenocks, and a nation-wide revision of the laws, so you 'll deal a blow for liberty for all!

    dammit. that. sucks.

    best of luck, and may you be proved correct at the end of this (which hopefully won't cost a lot of time or money).

    BEST,
    VM

  • Ska||

    JFK is in Brooklyn (Kings County)

    No, actually, it is also in Queens (Jamaica NY). Your point about i'natl vs. domestic was also the only real difference I could think of.

    Kwais, you should have asked how the time between their arrest and their drop-off to central booking went. I'm assuming you went to Queens House in Kew Gardens. I had been arrested in Flushing, and the pigs were kind enough to drive me around handcuffed, sitting on the floor in the back of a Ram Econoline, mid-December, for about 4 hours looking for more perps (read: people caught smoking joints). The whole time the two pigs up front are asking the passengers (6 of us as time went on) where we could buy guns, or sell car parts, etc., etc. After that it was a trip to the 109th for a few hours, and then the trip to CB. Best part about the whole deal was that they didn't find some weed my friend had, and we puffed a jay in Central. That at least guaranteed that we got to sit on the bench.

    All over a fucking bag of weed. ACOD and the whole shit means nothing in the end. I'm still smoking pot, and cops are still being dicks. What a waste of a couple of days.

  • MNG||

    kwais
    I'm aggrieved to hear about this. As I shared not too long ago on a thread I have a sibling who is currently incarcerated for simply having drugs on her, a "crime" which hurt no one.

    Our jails are terrible. Most people don't realize that at any given time most US jails are 50% people who at that point have yet to be convicted on ANYTHING and the rest are those convicted and serving their misdemeanor sentence in the jail or awaiting tranfer to a prison to serve their felony sentences out. The conditions should be made more humane for everyone, but certainly those being detained should be detained in a different place and that detainment should, with some tight exceptions, be as minimal and as humane as possible.

    Keep up the good fight and good luck.

  • MNG||

    "I think somewhere here, non existent God has given me a part to play."

    Right on kwais. You've done us all a service defending our freedoms on the battlefield, and now you are doing the same just on a different front. (Non-existent [I'm a fellow athiest]) God Bless you on this!

  • cunnivore||

    In other words, they have no gun laws. No license or permit required to carry any gun anywhere any time in plain sight or concealed. Even if you wanted one, you can't get one because they don't have one. It should be that way everywhere.

    That's not necessarily an unmixed blessing. This means that VT can't have right-to-carry reciprocity agreements with other states, and thus VT residents can't carry outside VT. A few states have switched from no license required regimes to shall-issue for this reason.

  • ||

    Will you get your pistol back?

    That is my next legal challenge. The lawyer said that I would have to sue to get it back (and my suitcase)


    This reminds me of what happened to my father. His home in Arlington, Virginia, was burglarized, and the perp stole (inter alia) a silver pitcher and the automatic pistol my father had carried in combat as a U.S. Marine. A few days later, the D.C. cops caught the perp trying to fence the pitcher. A detective nicely picked up my father at work (in D.C.) and took him to the station, where he identified and took back the pitcher. (Apparently the perp copped a plea, so the pitcher wasn't needed for evidence at trial.) Even though the cops had also recovered the gun, they wouldn't give it back, as it would be illegal in D.C. My father could have tried suing to get back his property (which was perfectly legal in Virginia, remember, and which he hadn't illegally carried into the District), but he didn't think it was worth it.

  • The Wine Commonsewer||

    Disagreeing with the government on ideology doesn't mean that you get to ignore the laws of the land, even if you are wrongfully arrested.

    Yes, and that's exactly what they used to say in Mississippi when some uppity Negra dared to use the white drinking fountain.

    Got dammit Boy, you don't get to ignore the laws of the land.

    Nobody is bound to follow immoral laws and that is one commonality among libertarians I know.

    One may choose to follow immoral laws to avoid conflict or horrific consequences, but that is a survival mechanism, not a moral imperative.

  • The Wine Commonsewer||

    See, I also believe the cops are full of shit. No cop has to arrest anyone if he doesn't want to. I know, I've personally witnessed several incidents where an arrest could have been made but wasn't.

    What they were really saying is since the TSA called them out it was easier to cuff Kwais than it would be to explain to someone up the food chain why they didn't.

  • ||

    This also is what bothers me about the cops not thinking about what is moral vs what the law says;

    I only got arrested, because I was not expecting that I had broken any rules. I only got arrested because I was not expecting any problems.

    If I were expecting problems, I could have avoided the law entirely.

    In fact I could easily have filed the numbers off of my pistol and sold it to some hoodlum in NY for more than it would cost me to buy an new one in Nevada.

    I am fully confident that I could have ILLEGALLY SOLD the weapon in NYC if I wanted to.

    I got caught because I wasn't trying to break the law.

  • ||

    This isn't a cop moral issue is it? Wasn't the law on your side? It sounds more like cops didn't know what the law was.

  • ||

    Sadly, you were one more statistic on the cops score card for gun arrests. That's the way they saw it and why they did it. Productivity.

  • ||

    Well, I'll be damned. Just looked on a map and JFK is in Queens after all. My bad, Ska.

    I didn't mean to imply that no gun laws in VT helped anywhere else, but I am saying that it should be that way everywhere...and that little nugget is reason enough for them to secede from NY 200 years ago, although I'm sure that wasn't why they did it.

  • Adam||

    Well, given the corruption and incompetence that I saw, I am concerned that my firearm might later turn up used for a felony, and that might come back later to haunt me.

    Report it stolen by the arresting officer.

    Maybe you could also file charges for kidnapping and assault, along with theft?

  • NRA member||

    Sorry, kwias deserves no sympathy from any libertarian. From a careful reading not only of his original post but all the comments to it, the truth can be eeked out. Kwais is a military contractor. He was a Marine for 11 years but now he is making a thick six-figure salary in Dick Cheney's 3-trillion-dollar transfer from taxpayers to people like kwias. Kwias feels the need to pack heat while traveling domestically. He was not on his way to Iraq or returning from there. Gung-ho people like kwias are probably air conditioner technicians working in Kuwait, but even if he was in a combat zone, this is America and he really does not need to keep a pistol near at all times. He claims "proficiency with a firearm is part of my job." Well, you don't see plumbers traveling with roto-rooters because "proficiency with a sewer snake is part of my job". But the real issue is what happened in New York. He did not get busted at the airport for having a gun. He got busted for flying in two days previously and walking out into the streets of New York to hang out with his brother while in possession of an illegal gun. He violated the gun laws of New York City. Period. He could have just put his piece in an airport locker and gone to hang out with his brother and he would have been fine. He could have asked a NY cop if what he intended to do was legal. OK, get that? He transported a gun to New York and in full violation of well-known public law, sauntered onto the streets. If he was just getting a connecting flight, he would have been fine. When he walked off airport property and went to visit his brother and show off his big thick piece to anybody that would look, that is what he did illegal. He deserves no sympathy or respect and certainly should not get his gun back because a big bad military contractor who was a big bad Marine for 11 years should know what the friggin carry laws are in any jurisdiction he intends to walk into. He spent two days in jail on the concrete floor. So a military contractor that is making way over 100 grand a year can't bail himself out and go stay with the very brother he was visiting? Give me a break. Paranoid, chip on shoulder and martyr complex, now you know what to think when military contractors are accused of murdering innocent Iraqi civilians... sure, they did it. In his original post he threatened to kill the people that put him in jail. He wisely removed it since threatening to kill police is not very bright, even by military contractor standards. When he decided to take an extended layover in New York he should have dropped his gun into a Fed-Ex box and sent it home that way. You can tell from his original post that he just surmised that carry laws in New York City were the same as California. Ha ha, he deserves to sit in jail for a couple days. He is the exact reason we have so many gun laws in Amerika.

  • VikingMoose||

    "and show off his big thick piece to anybody that would look"

    sounds like you're jealous you didn't get to see the shaft of the massive, throbbing, thick piece he gets to dangle in front of others...

    some suggestions:
    paragraphs
    take a few deep breaths
    stop using your inner Shirley McClain to channel dave w
    maybe a magazine or a web site could help, um, induce you to engage in some calming activities?

    (you may borrow my noam chomsky blow up doll)

  • VM||

    (double cuz getting annoyed:)

    in short, hr. twaddlenock, just cuz you got a beef with something, it doesn't change the fact that Kwais was busted under a bullshit law.

    And we support him. If you had anything other than caliber envy, you'd also see that the law is bullshit and bogus and go with that. In fact, if you spent any time hier, you'd like Kwais too and support him.

    Instead, well, you get to look in the mirror every morning. You know what you see. Now, thanks to your breathless screed, we all do, too.

    It's bullshit, and it's a huge bummer that Kwais has to go through this. And we support him. Period. It's a bullshit law, and the fact that it happened to a nice person makes it suck even more.

  • ||

    NRA member*,

    he really does not need to keep a pistol near at all times

    Here is the crux of the issue. And I think that to a libertarian, all the rest is really background noise.

    Do we ban things based on whether a person needs something or not? Aren't there things that you do or that you have that some might think you don't need to do, or need to have?

    *(I really hope you aren't an NRA Member, because the NRA as I see it is about an individual right, a constitutional right, and a fundamental human right.)

  • ||

    NRA member,

    In his original post he threatened to kill the people that put him in jail.

    I saw his original post, and I can assure you that you are incorrect.

    As for the rest of your post, rather than taking the high road and refuting your claims one at a time, I think I'll just take the low road and invite you to fuck off forthwith.

  • ||

    More to NRA member:
    (though you may be a troll, and I may be wasting my time)

    kwias deserves no sympathy from any libertarian

    Well, I agreed with the piece being put here because it highlights government incompetence and the treading of civil rights on a daily basis. The event happened to me once, but from my visit in jail, I gather that it happens on a daily basis, and no one is safe from it.

    The last thing on my mind was sympathy. That said I am moved by some of the commenters here, including some that I would have expected to be more hostile. I guess a stronger libertarian strain runs through most of the commenters than I had thought. I didn't see it so much when disagreeing with some of their posts.

    Well, you don't see plumbers traveling with roto-rooters because "proficiency with a sewer snake is part of my job"

    Would it be reasonable to arrest them if you did see it?

    He violated the gun laws of New York City.
    That is actually not clear. What helped me out here is that there is a law that says something to the effect of one traveling from a state where it is legal to a state where it is legal, is ok. Or something like that. And I didn't desire to stay in NY, and I was leaving as soon as I could.

    He could have just put his piece in an airport locker and gone to hang out with his brother and he would have been fine.

    When was the last time you saw lockers at an airport? And if I had done that I would still need to check in the gun at the gate, and that is where the drama started.

    a couple more points:
    - Fed exing the gun back does seem to have been the answer, so you are right about that, but I didn't know that at the time.
    - My brother is a liberal, he is does not like guns, and is not impressed by them, no matter how cool they are. And this wasn't one of my cool guns. My brother thinks that no-one, not even cops should have guns. (Incidentally, it would probably be less wrong, from a civil libertarian standpoint to ban guns, if you also banned them from cops)
    - I never shot civilians. Never. I always treated civilians, and captured enemy as I would want to have been treated myself.
    Of course that is neither here nor there on the argument of my rights as a US citizen, that is just something you threw out there.

  • ||

    Meh,

    I may have done to much arguing NRA member,
    Jake Boone, and Viking Moose went about replying the better way.

  • Other Matt||

    He could have just put his piece in an airport locker and gone to hang out with his brother and he would have been fine.

    Actually, probably not. As soon as he took possession of the bag from the baggage check, he'd probably be in technical violation of NYC law. Still makes no sense to me what TSA was doing trying to enforce such a law. If he had, instead, drove to NYC to get on the plane, he would have been covered under the Federal protection. NYC laws are quite Asshole like, or Bloombergish (take your pick, same to me) when it comes to firearms.

    Here is the crux of the issue. And I think that to a libertarian, all the rest is really background noise.

    Do we ban things based on whether a person needs something or not? Aren't there things that you do or that you have that some might think you don't need to do, or need to have?


    Agree with emphasis. The problem is you're regulating potential for conduct as opposed to the conduct itself. People talk about "Fire in a theater" as an example, but it doesn't hold. Shouting "Fire" is an overt act which can cause harm to others. Having a firearm on your person is not. Discharging a firearm is. I have no problem regulating discharge of a firearm. I have a large problem regulating mere posession.

    Fed exing the gun back does seem to have been the answer

    It's a bit more difficult than a drop box, just FYI, at least when I've done it. You have to have a physical agent present. There is a school of thought to not indicate on the exterior of the package so nobody grabs it enroute

  • ||

    Maybe you could also file charges for kidnapping and assault, along with theft?

    That would be ideal.

  • ||

    I think it is a practical impossibility to file charges for kidnapping and assault, theft or any other criminal charge against a police officer. They won't take the complaint. You could file a civil suit for unlawful arrest if you've got cash to burn.

    I'm pretty sure NRA member is a troll - or possibly PBox maybe both. The vitriol directed at kwais for 1) making money 2) killing iraqi civilians (WTF?!?!) as well as the references to 3) dick cheney blah blah blah shows him to be a leftist (or trolling that way), not remotely a member of the NRA.

  • ||

    Oh, and forget suing the port authority. You might as well sue the Illuminati. 30k in legal fees won't get you past the jurisdictional issues.

  • Dave W. corrections||

    I can't believe no one has yet pointed out that it is Arabic for "sweet." I think T. Cavanaugh told us that right before Lebanon attacked Israel on '06. Or something.

  • ||

    "helwa" is sweet
    "kwais" is good, but in Egyptian Arabic.
    In Iraqi "Zien" is good.

    In Regular Arabic "jayid" means Good.
    In Lebanese and Palestinian "Mneeh" means good.

    That is one of the reasons why studying Arabic is so hard.

  • Dave W.||

    Arrrrgh. I stand corrected. Its all jayid.

  • Dave||

    kwais, you need to look up the case of Gregg C. Revell, who had a similar experience. GunWeek did a writeup of it that is offline right now, but the Google cache has it preserved at http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:yuR4j4QuqNAJ:www.gunweek.com/2006/NYNJ0320.html+new+jersey+gun+airport+port+authority&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a.

    Short answer is that this isn't the first time the Port Authority cops have done this, and they should be well aware that FOPA protects the traveler.

    Hit them. Hit them hard.

  • ||

    The can be a bunch of bitches, and often are. I actually think that the NYC cops are often pretty reasonable compared to other cop-shops. Not a high bar... anyway corrections personnel are generally worse than cops in my (very limited) experience.

    I have my own harrowing tale, and I think it's a bit more harrowing than kwais's. I don't tell it often because it was a pretty traumatic event and it annoys me to when people tell me that there must have been something more to it- that I must have done something to deserve it.

    When I was about 16 or 17 I went out drinking one night at the OP. The (rather smoking and much older) ex-girlfriend of a friend of mine was there, and kind of all over me, but I went off with some friends of mine and when I came back she was gone.

    So when the OP shut down I started walking home. But once I was a little way up Elmwood Avenus I had a choice- I could turn right and go to her house or go straight and go home. So I stood there for a minute thinking about it and then decided that I probably shouldn't turn right, so I decided to go home and go to bed. I took 3 steps north and the coppers rolled out and "arrested" me (technically they took me into protective custody.) I was about 4 blocks from my house, and I remember telling the cops: "I'm just going home to go to bed, and if you want to make sure I'm safe you could give me a ride home." They didn't think that was funny. I wound up geting thrown in the drunk tank, for no reason I can see, to this day- I had been drinking, but all I was doing was walking home. In fact that night there was a half-inch of ice covered with two inches of snow on the sidewalk- I guess they would be justified if they said I was walking unsteadily.

    So. to make a long story short they ran me down the four C's and tossed me in a small concrete cell with another guy. The cell's floor sank a bit in the middle and there was a puddle of piss that at its deepest was about a half inch deep. The "other guy" was some insane Vietnam Vet (deduced from his incoherent mumblings) who stood about 6'3" and weighed a rangy 210 or so- he was really a very big guy, with enormously long arms, amazing reach, and a great right even when three sheets to the wind.

    I know he had an amazing right because he attacked me about half an hour after I was put in the holding cell with him. He hit me so hard... my head later had knots inches away from where he hit me. If I hadn't slipped the punch a bit it might have killed me- he was immensely strong, and I say that as someone who can snatch my (not inconsiderable, these days) bodyweight. The corrections officials at this facility were watching this through the plexiglass, but they made no move to stop it.

    After getting hit like that once I knew I didn't want to get hit like that again so I tackled him, and we went down in the puddle of piss. He was wearing pants that were way too big for him- I imagine he had used a belt to keep them up.. anyway he was a commando motherfucker so it should be no surprise that he was going commando. So there I was rolling around in a puddle of piss with a huge hairy homeless guy who was naked from the waist down and seemed to want to kill me for no other reason than that I was there. It's a good thing he was really drunk- I eventually got my fingers into his hair and banged his head on the concrete floor until he was a bloody mess. I was afraid I had killed him, by the time it was done. And this whole time the guards were watching this play out... they came into the cell and took hin off and then threatened me with legal action if he were badly hurt...

    I just remember thinking, while I was rolling around in a puddle of piss with some stinking matherfucker's bits and pieces pressed against me and his blows trying to rain down on me- what the fuck did I do to deserve this ;).

  • ||

    reading Daves excellent link gives me some hope that kwais might be able to sue th PA after all. If I am ever in this situation, I think I would refuse to take posession of my luggage from the airline - I would insist that they check it through immediately, and perhaps let me get some of my clothes out for the layover - though that would clearly be secondary. Fucking NY/NJ.

  • Other Matt||

    kwais, you need to look up the case of Gregg C. Revell, who had a similar experience

    And what happened in that case? Anyone know? (too lazy/busy to look up myself)

  • ||

    Kwais,

    Sorry and angered that this happened to you.

    Disgusted with the jackals who are nipping at your heels on this thread.

  • ||

    Damn, koko...

    Probable cause is so freakin' important.

    People seem to think being arrested isn't a big deal so long as you aren't charged with something, being charged isn't a big deal so long as you aren't indicted, being indicted isn't a big deal so long as you aren't convicted...

    But being arrested can be totally unjust--and what you described going through violates what I think of as a common reading of cruel and unusual punishment.

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