Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Mothers, Tell Your Children Not to Do as I Have Done...
Stop the
presses! Rock stars ain't role models! Roll over Chuck
Berry, and take your spy-cams with you.
Chanteuse Natalie Cole has decried polyabuser Amy Winehouse's big night at the Grammys (which are some music awards program or something and happened over the weekend):
"I don't think she should have won. I think it sends a bad message to our young people who are trying to get into this business, the ones who are trying to do it right and really trying to keep themselves together. We have to stop rewarding bad behavior....It's not right for her to be able to have her cake and eat it too," the 58-year-old singer [said].
"Wino" hit it big with her wry, anti-therapeutic state anthem (I'm taking some liberties here)Â "Rehab"--and is currently being treated as an outpatient after, er, going to rehab.
More here. I'm guessing next up is a cover of the Alanis Morrisette's "Ironic." And when are celebrities--and teachers and government types, etc., with the noticeable exception of former deodorant pitchman and NBA great Charles Barkley--finally going to admit what the rest of us know: They are "well-paid but impotent puppets."
The Animals explain the headline here, complete with that fucking organ sound that haunts our collective soul still like the comedown from a methified long weekend:
Jennifer|2.12.08 @ 4:24PM|#
Oh, great. Now I have to go buy an Amy Winehouse album just to spite some fool who thinks the purpose of art and artists is to Set A Good Example For Children.
javier|2.12.08 @ 4:25PM|#
I don't get whinehouse. Is she really good and I just don't understand jazz or whatever she sings??
Episiarch|2.12.08 @ 4:29PM|#
I also don't get Winehouse. It's not like she's super hot or
anything. As we all know, in today's music world, that's all that
matters.
I know why we hear about her constantly, though--the Britney
effect. Young celebrity who is a drug and alcohol train wreck?
Press 24/7.
|2.12.08 @ 4:30PM|#
javier,
The music is incidental. She's just the current car wreck everyone
is slowing down to gawk at; the British Britney if you will.
She looks like something my cat coughed up.
|2.12.08 @ 4:30PM|#
Oh, Natalie Cole should talk - she was stoned for YEARS before she cleaned up HER act!
|2.12.08 @ 4:30PM|#
Ha, I caused this headling by talking about Danzig tattoos earlier. I AM A GOLDEN GOD!
Russ 2000|2.12.08 @ 4:31PM|#
Aren't the Grammy winners always lame?
Did Natalie Cole win one a few years ago with some creepy "duet"
with her younger father?
|2.12.08 @ 4:33PM|#
And what is the right message, Ms. Cole? That you should only
achieve stardom through hard work, sticktuitiveness, and riding the
coattails of your iconic father?
On a side note, regardless of her personal issues, I enjoy
Winehouse's album. I'm not sure I "get" anything aside from the
fact that I like her voice and enjoy the 21st-century update on the
Wall of Sound.
PC|2.12.08 @ 4:34PM|#
Sid Vicious had his amp turned off most of the time and he was the most popular member of the Pistols for many. I would call it the Vicious effect instead of the Britney effect. Britney was a big star before she became a trainwreck, Winehouse is a star because she is a trainwreck.
|2.12.08 @ 4:34PM|#
"I don't get whinehouse. Is she really good and I just don't
understand jazz or whatever she sings??"
She is ok but not great. It is just that no one can do that kind of
music very well anymore, so when anyone who is even passable at it,
like Winehouse or Snora Jones, comes along the media goes crazy to
show how sophisticated they are by over praising them. That
combined with the train wreck effect of her apparently being a
crack whore accounts for the Amy Winehouse phenomenon such as it
is.
|2.12.08 @ 4:36PM|#
Oh shit, the headline is the house of the rising sun, not mother. This is unforgivably shameful on my part. I leave now to conduct the full ritual of seppuku.
|2.12.08 @ 4:39PM|#
"Mother
Tell your children not to walk my way
Tell your children not to hear my words
What they mean
What they say
Mother
Mother
Can you keep them in the dark for life
Can you hide them from the waiting world
Oh mother"
For Warty, because he meant well....
First Little Pig|2.12.08 @ 4:40PM|#
Umm... Personally I love the "Back to Black" album... I've
played it over and over. I find it retro yet mod. Oh well...
As for the interest in her foibles: it's a shame she can't handle
her vices quite as well as the hundreds of other stars who party
but about whose antics we here so very little. It's also a shame
that the media tried to hide Heath Ledger's heroin addiction to
make his death seem more tragic to regular folk.
It's a kind of hypocrisy.
Tom Walls|2.12.08 @ 4:42PM|#
That's a Vox Continental organ, by the way. Incidentally the organ player, Alan Price, gets all the royalties for the song (they simply decided to put his name on it as the arranger and leave the rest of the Animals off).
|2.12.08 @ 4:43PM|#
John,
I'm with you on Jones, but Winehouse can straight up sing. She also
writes her own shit. She's a wreck, but a talented wreck. I also
respect her unapologetic fucked-up-ness. Her fucked-up-ness
certainly contributes to her awareness level, but unlike Britney,
there's actually some work to be a fan of. Her Grammy performance
was better than most of the "sober" performers.
|2.12.08 @ 4:43PM|#
On a side note, regardless of her personal issues, I enjoy
Winehouse's album. I'm not sure I "get" anything aside from the
fact that I like her voice and enjoy the 21st-century update on the
Wall of Sound.
I'll second this.
I'd also add that her sound is different and, to me at least, more
enjoyable than a lot of what I hear from new female artists these
days.
I also like here even more for being a unashamed drug user and does
things her way. Good for her, I say.
I don't even think she qualifies as a train wreck. I mean if it
weren't for the press all over her every move, what exactly makes
her a trainwreck? The fact that she does drugs and makes no
apologies? If that's all it takes then I and many of my friends
must all be trainwrecks. Her albums have had commercial success and
critical success...a daily double that most modern day trainwrecks
don't achieve (I'm looking at you Britney and Lindsey)
dhex|2.12.08 @ 4:45PM|#
i like winehouse's voice, and her productions are interesting.
shame about the drinking/drugs.
i do worry that ledger's death is just going to make it that much
harder for regular people to get the drugs they need for pain
control. turning someone into a demigod because they went pill
shopping and fucked up doesn't strike me as a particularly good way
to conduct business, but then again i don't give a fuck about
movies.
and john, if you think people would drop winehouse to show
sophistication, you're just plain kee-razy.
|2.12.08 @ 4:45PM|#
MattJ,
Maybe I will have to give her another listen. I would agree that
she certainly can sing and is a real performer, unlike Britney.
|2.12.08 @ 4:47PM|#
"and john, if you think people would drop winehouse to show
sophistication, you're just plain kee-razy."
I don't think they drop her to show sophistication. I think they
praise her music to show it.
|2.12.08 @ 4:50PM|#
Aren't the Grammy winners always lame?
Go here and
decide. It seems to me they select a good one from time to
time.
Xmas|2.12.08 @ 4:51PM|#
I highly recommend a trip to YouTube and a search for "Eff Me Pumps" by Ms. Winehouse. It's a great song.
Is it five yet?|2.12.08 @ 4:55PM|#
I listened to Amy Winehouse last year, but got tired of her
quickly. At the time, my 14-yr old hated her - couldn't get past
the hair, I think. Then, she sees her on the Grammy's and downloads
Rehab the very next day for her cell phone and ipod. Hey, I said,
I've got that song and more on my laptop. No thanks, she said, it's
easier and quicker to use mine (plugging in an ipod is too much of
an effort?).
Bottom line, the Grammy's were successful in promoting an artist to
a new fan, but unsuccessful in securing additional royalties for
the artist.
dhex|2.12.08 @ 4:55PM|#
I don't think they drop her to show sophistication. I think
they praise her music to show it.
dude, i don't even think pitchfork knows who she is, that's how far
off the cool kids radar she is.
ps fuck pitchfork.
|2.12.08 @ 4:59PM|#
"dude, i don't even think pitchfork knows who she is, that's how
far off the cool kids radar she is."
I am not talking about cool kids. I am talking about dorky music
critics.
|2.12.08 @ 5:02PM|#
Grammy fun fact of the day (courtesy of Sound Opinions' Greg Kot and Jim DeRogatis): Chicagoland native Bob Newhart has more Grammys (2) than fellow Chicagoland artists Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, Mavis Staples and Smashing Pumpkins combined (0).
|2.12.08 @ 5:03PM|#
Are those the real Animals? They look like high schoolers lip
syncing.
Amy Winehouse-Not a fan. I've never been a fan of methadone rock
though, so that's not too surprising.
|2.12.08 @ 5:05PM|#
Back to Black is a good/succesful album for a few
reasons:
1. Winehouse has a distinctive voice (some find it annoying)
2. Winehouse's songwriting is quite good
3. The Dap-Kings. That is all.
Actually, reason #3 probably contributes to the success a lot more
than people realize. The Dap-Kings are undoubtedly the finest
performing Retro Soul act in the world right now. They are amazing.
They are just as responsible for the kickass sound of Back to
Black as Ms. Winehouse.
Need proof? Googled 'sharon jones and the dap-kings,'
FYI, Sharon Jones is 1400 times better live than Amy Winehouse (but
I love them both).
robc|2.12.08 @ 5:05PM|#
Homer: Oh, why won't anyone give me an award?
Lisa: You won a Grammy.
Homer: I mean an award that's worth winning!
Legal Disclaimer: Mr. Simpson's views do not match those of the
producers, who don't consider the Grammy an award at all.
highnumber|2.12.08 @ 5:05PM|#
Don't try to lump Amy Winehouse in with the Britneys and
Lindsays. That's stoopid. She's good. Earth-shattering? No, but
she's got talent and a great band backing her.
Mojo had a feature on her a couple of months ago. It was good
reading. She's an interesting bird.
|2.12.08 @ 5:07PM|#
Homer: Lisa, did you see the Grammys?
Lisa: You beat Dexy's Midnight Runners.
Homer: Well, you haven't heard the last of them.
Nick Gillespie|2.12.08 @ 5:10PM|#
This one is for you, Mr. Tom Walls. Feel all the Alan Price
chills, if you are a lucky man:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9E07V5hphS8
Timothy|2.12.08 @ 5:13PM|#
Her voice is all right, but I'll take Ella Fitzgerald any day
over Winehouse. Also, she was WAY good looking before going on the
all drugs and no food diet.
See heir:
http://fritz.salzburg.com/static/sites/fritz/media/3(90).story.jpg
Also:
http://www.liverpool.com/assets/_files/images/jul_07/lb_liv__1183538070_amy_winehouse_new_large.jpg
|2.12.08 @ 5:19PM|#
My $00.02:
Artists are not supposed to be role models, they are supposed to be
cautionary tales. I like mine young, brilliant, and
self-destructive, if that translates to short and tragic life, so
be it , as long as i they produce those golden ageless eggs. they
are no good after they sober up anyone, no fuel for the fire and so
on.
highnumber|2.12.08 @ 5:20PM|#
Ella Fitzgerald?!
That's like saying "The Mighty Mighty Bosstones are good, but I'll
take Buddy Holly any day."
Why would you compare them?
|2.12.08 @ 5:21PM|#
She still has years of drug use ahead of her if she wants to
catch up to the jazz artist of the 40s and 50s.
The term Jezebel of Jazz still goes to Anita O'Day. Winehouse isn't
close.
Episiarch|2.12.08 @ 5:25PM|#
I sort of agree with Shane in that I like my rock stars to act like rock stars, though I don't need them to die young for my amusement (not that I give a shit, it's their life). I'm much more entertained by crazy coked-out drunk maniac rockers than I am by Sting.
|2.12.08 @ 5:25PM|#
I mean really, think about it, Bob Marley after rehab? A happy and outgoing Cobain? A Van Gogh who wants both ears? A 75 year old Elvis? seriously...
|2.12.08 @ 5:29PM|#
A well behaved Marquis de Sade? We need crazy self-destructive people to live the carefree and hazardous lives for us. Otherwise it's all leave it beaver.
|2.12.08 @ 5:34PM|#
No one in pop music today should be mentioned with Ella Fitzgerald. While we're at it, Natalie Cole shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Nat King Cole, unless you're a professional genealogist or a relative of theirs.
Tom Walls|2.12.08 @ 5:37PM|#
Thanks, Nick. I will duly enjoy Alan playing his his organ when I get home, and me mine.
|2.12.08 @ 5:52PM|#
Dude, she's in lock-down detox. Her boyfriend is in the
clink.
How is that "having her cake and eating it too?"
|2.12.08 @ 5:55PM|#
joe,
We will forgive. And we will bestow our collective largess. Cake
will be served and consumed, while still possessed in all its
icingy glory.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 6:32PM|#
Nick, you are the man for posting the Animules. Even though that
thing has, like Stairway to Heaven, been played til everybody's
ears bleed, it's still a good tune.
Amy Winehouse isn't Billie Holiday and she doesn't have the tragic
childhood history neither. She's not bad and I'm told by Mrs TWC
that she works hard at her craft. But when it's Miller Time, she
don't kid around none.
As for Grammy winners, I'll take Carrie Underwood.
B|2.12.08 @ 6:35PM|#
That is some awesome lip-synching by Eric Burdon in that
video.
As for Amy Winehouse, it's no small wonder she abuses cocaine. That
ugly bitch could sniff a fucking Buick up that huge proboscis
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 6:38PM|#
One of the nice things about modern America is that lip syncing has gone the way of the buggy whip.
|2.12.08 @ 6:43PM|#
The thing that always surprises me about Amy Winehouse is that
her music is really good. Good singer, good songwriter, awesome
band behind her. I always assume that somebody who's on the cover
of US Weekly next to Britney Spears must be terrible, but not in
this case.
That Animals song is awesome, but let's give Leadbelly some credit
for writing the thing.
|2.12.08 @ 6:51PM|#
If the Grammy Awards were anything but a chance for mediocre
musicians and greedy music industry plankton to publicly
congratulate themselves on their mediocrity, it might matter that
Winehouse won one.
For the record, Winehouse isn't bad. Whiny and self-absorbed, but I
guess a lot of musicians are like that.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 6:51PM|#
Eric Burden NOT lip
syncing
And besides, isn't Natalie Cole sort of the pot calling the kettle
black?
|2.12.08 @ 6:55PM|#
One of the nice things about modern America is that lip
syncing has gone the way of the buggy whip.
Are you joking?
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 6:55PM|#
lurker, I have a leadbelly CD. You can have it. Free. I'll pay
the postage. :-)
Not sure Leadbelly wrote the tune, I always heard it was an old
American folk song. He was one of the earlier artists to record it,
though, sometime in the 1940's I think.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 7:00PM|#
Shem, I wasn't joking (Milli Vanilli, notwithstanding).
You have to take it in context. In that era (1960's), nearly every
artist lip synced for TV shows (notable exception was some Ed
Sullivan shows). It was the rule rather than the exception. These
days it's the other way around.
I could be wrong, but I'll never admit it.
dhex|2.12.08 @ 7:13PM|#
I am not talking about cool kids. I am talking about dorky
music critics.
dude the cool kids ARE the dorky music critics.
as above, so below.
PS kids free tip from your man (me) - the new genghis tron album is
FUUUUUUUUCKING AMAZING. my fingers are broken from throwing up the
goddamn horns so much in 45 minutes.
|2.12.08 @ 7:32PM|#
Ugh. Mrs. Cole needs to realize that unfortunately, talent does not always go to nice, well-adjusted people. A lot of the time it goes to assholes and fuck-ups. If we only recognized the nice, well-adjusted people, we'd be stuck in the stone age. I mean, should we not read or praise Byron because he was a bastard and slept with his sister?
Jerry Todd|2.12.08 @ 7:38PM|#
The last time I watched the Grammys, or maybe it was the AMA's, the presenters came out in Dune Buggies. Coolest thing I ever saw. Alice Cooper and Elton John came out in a beautiful bit of stereotyped wardrobe with hyper opposite voices. All down hill from there.
|2.12.08 @ 7:39PM|#
As for Winehouse, I definitely think she's gifted. She sings with a bit of grit, her voice actually has some weight to it, and she knows to avoid the vocal melismatic theatrics of whitney and carey. Except for the occasional profanity, she wouldn't be out of place on a 60's-70's soul record.
|2.12.08 @ 8:32PM|#
I'm not impressed by Winehouse...I'm sure someone writes her songs for her, talented musicians play the tunes, and her drunk average ass sings...Not impressed...The focus should be on the MUSICIANS not the f*cking singers...That takes talent.
TheCurseofLono|2.12.08 @ 8:41PM|#
Mr. Nice Guy,
Do you have any proof that someone else writes songs for her?
"Rehab," for example, definitely sounds like it comes from her
personal experience.
As for musicians, sure they're important, but "musicianship" can be
enormously overrated. Being able to perform a technically complex
solo for ten minutes does not mean you are "talented." It means you
spend ridiculous amounts of time practicing and engaged in musical
masturbation. It's why Keith Richards is a more "talented" guitar
player than guys like steve vai or joe satriani.
And what about producers? Production, especially on a record like
Winehouses', is extremely important.
Oh, and for a good article on Winehouse and her musical merits:
http://www.slate.com/id/2184209
|2.12.08 @ 8:44PM|#
I have to admit to not getting Amy Winehouse either. I've seen
some of her stuff and think "what's the fuss all about?". Added to
the fact that she's an annoying crack-ho in real life does nothing
to enhance her in my eyes. That said, I've listened to my share of
self-destructive genii over the years.
The Dap-Kings, not bad at all. The album they did with Sharon Jones
is pretty damn good. Love the old school soul production too.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 8:53PM|#
....talent does not always go to nice, well-adjusted
people...
As was alluded to in No One Gets Out Alive, who the heck knows how
crazed you might become with completely and totally unlimited
assets, fame, fortune, and hotties at your disposal?
IME, there's plenty of Pyscho genes distributed among the, shall we
say, less talented among us.
|2.12.08 @ 9:04PM|#
Shem, I wasn't joking (Milli Vanilli,
notwithstanding).
You have to take it in context. In that era (1960's), nearly every
artist lip synced for TV shows (notable exception was some Ed
Sullivan shows). It was the rule rather than the exception. These
days it's the other way around.
Maybe there's some confusion as to what each of you is considering
lip syncing. Almost all videos are lip-synced in that the
song being played is the studio-recorded version. Obviously you
aren't hearing a recording of the artist singing while walking down
a street in the rain. Even a performance video, as opposed to a
theme video, is almost always simply the band pretending to play
over the studio version. Now as for live TV appearances, I suppose
it depends. Our expectations on shows like SNL are that the
performance is live (see Ashley Simpson). The same goes for
Letterman and the like, so maybe you're both right but were
thinking of it in a different light?
The Wine Commonsewer|2.12.08 @ 9:23PM|#
Brian, yes, you're probably right. Back then everything from the
movie Hard Days Night to Bandstand was all really bad lip syncing.
It was a rare treat to see an artist actually perform.
I don't think anyone mentioned that the federales also declined to
let Amy come to the Grammys.
|2.12.08 @ 9:39PM|#
You have to take it in context. In that era (1960's), nearly
every artist lip synced for TV shows (notable exception was some Ed
Sullivan shows). It was the rule rather than the exception. These
days it's the other way around.
For a while it was, but not anymore, at least not for any of the
corporate-created bands. There's a whole list of artist who had
mishaps because of technology foul-ups. They can even alter the
tracks so that it sounds like the real thing.
Brett|2.12.08 @ 9:55PM|#
I dig Winehouse and the Dap Kings. Not long ago I watched her video for "Fuck me pumps" on YouTube, it was sad to see how much healthier she looked just a few short years ago.
|2.12.08 @ 9:59PM|#
I agree with Cole. There's no place in the American lexicon for
Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Led Zeppelin, The Doors, Nirvana, The Sex
Pistols, The Beatles, Johnny Cash, Sublime, Red Hot Chili Peppers,
Billie Holiday, Grateful Dead, Funkadelic, The Rolling Stones,
Janis Joplin, Charlie Parker, Elvis Presley, and all those other
druggies I can't remember.
They all abused drugs and therefore had no talent and shouldn't
have ever entered the halls of musical greatness, or in some cases,
pretty goodness.
|2.12.08 @ 10:35PM|#
Thank you for saying that Lamar.
Also think about what Bill Hicks said: If you honestly believe
drugs have never done any good, go home and burn your record
collection.
|2.13.08 @ 12:21AM|#
Oh, Natalie Cole should talk - she was stoned for YEARS
before she cleaned up HER act!
More to the point, Cole won her Grammy(s) in the early nineties for
that stupid "duet" with her father. Nice edit job, but Record
of the Year?!? As far as I'm concerned, Cole's Grammys were
about as merited as Milli Vanilli's. She should thank her lucky
stars and keep her mouth shut.
green mamba|2.13.08 @ 3:01AM|#
Winehouse: a hot Jewish girl with a nice rack. Haven't heard her music yet, but not surprised some here are modestly praising it, since she comes off as pretty smart in interviews.
LT Nixon|2.13.08 @ 4:24AM|#
I would say she shouldn't have won the grammy since her music is terrible. The only thing these smarmy moral-police are doing by saying she's "badly behaved" is elevating Ms. Winehouse to a status of coolness that is completely undeserved.
SJE|2.13.08 @ 9:00AM|#
What is Natalie Cole getting all preachy about. What about HER
problems with drugs?
From wikipedia:
Cole's career paused in the early 1980s as she dealt with the
challenges of her severe drug problem. By 1985, Cole was back in
good health, and began a comeback.
|2.13.08 @ 9:07AM|#
Oh for the Simply Red and Milli Vanilli days, such a kinder,
gentler time.
Winehouse is ok for her genre. Much like celebs and musicians who
tell me about their political beliefs I could also care less about
their chemical romances. Why does the media continue to ask celeb
types things no one cares about. Has anyone ever once switched
their position because of George Clooney or Susan Sarandan? I think
not.
|2.13.08 @ 10:05AM|#
Has anyone ever once switched their position because of
George Clooney or Susan Sarandan? I think not.
They're a good reality check. If some reality-challenged celeb is
for something, you know almost to a certainty that it is wrong to
also be for that something.
highnumber|2.13.08 @ 10:44AM|#
That Animals song is awesome, but let's give Leadbelly some
credit for writing the thing.
Give Leadbelly credit for all sorts of things, but NOT for writing
that song. If we knew who wrote it, we might know for certain what
it was about. We do not.
And Mr Nice Guy,
Urine idjit.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245