Little Green Footballs has moved, over the space of a few weeks, from mercilessly mocking Ron Paul and banning him from its straw polls to putting him at the center of a conspiracy for worldwide Nazi domination. Sitemaster Charles Johnson has hammered the tired Don Black donation story and is now promoting photos, taken from the Value Voters Debate in Florida, of Paul, Black, and Black's son Derek. It's a "photo-op," Johnson says!
I'll give Johnson some credit: He's consistent, and he has a zero-tolerance policy for the white pride/European pride crowd. His fellow travellers have attacked him for blogging against the Belgian right-wing party Vlaams Belang. [UPDATE: In the comments, Robert Spencer complains about being linked. He misunderstands me: I'm not saying he was one of the attackers, I'm referring to the attacks that he defended Johnson from.] The attack on Paul for having his picture taken in the scrum outside a debate, though, is a smear. Paul's never had an entourage or secret service protection. When Don Black eased in for a photo with Paul, the candidate had no idea what Black looked like. (Did anyone? Black looks a little thinner and greyer than the photos of him that come up on image searches or the photo on Stormfront's banner.) Unless Black came up to Paul and said "I am the blandly-named fuhrer of a white pride site. You share the goals of my revolution," I don't see what Paul was supposed to do.
Here, for some context, is footage of Paul milling around before the Values Voters Summit (no relation to the debate) in October. He's being buttonholed by a crazy person who's obsessed with the devil, by Nation reporter Max Blumenthal, and by nutbar businessman/fringe candidate Daniel Imperato. He doesn't know who they are, but he talks to them and gets in frame for their cameras and camcorders anyway.
Lee of Right-Thinking on the Left Coast has a good take on this.
I’m irritated that Ron Paul was photographed with an asshole like Don Black. But these guys shake hands and pose for photos with thousands of people. It’s called campaigning. They don’t have time to check everyone’s background. This was not a Stormfront event, this was a Values Voters debate.
I’m having trouble finding it on Google, but I remember back in ‘96, Ross Perot making a big deal about a photo of Bill Clinton shaking hands with a drug dealer at a campaign event. I remember people making a big deal out of Rosalyn Carter shaking hands with John Wayne Gacy. I thought it was bullshit then and it’s bullshit now.
I haven't tried to cover up the fringe right's love for Ron Paul. When I saw Jamie Kelso blogging from the Ron Paul tent at the Ames Straw Poll, I noted it in my article on that event. But in the shape of things, it's so... irrelevent. Does anyone think Stormfront posters are *this close* to white revolution and all they need now is a presidential trojan horse? For the record, Black's donation makes up 0.002 percent of Paul's 2007 campaign haul.
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSS
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time.
|12.21.07 @ 9:11AM|#
I know this charge is baseless, but this is going to sting. There's only so much you can explain away before people will simply associate Paul and Black.
Damn...
|12.21.07 @ 9:27AM|#
The major candidates gleefully accept thousands in donations from companies that benefit on the war with the intent of the money to produce more war-that is morally much worse than a few random bad apples throwing a few hundred bucks to Paul's campaign.
If a hate monger like Ann Coulter were to donate to a campaign should that candidate give the money back, too ? Ann probably has as much hate in here for democrats as this white supremacist has stored up in him.
It is so ironic though- here is Dr. Paul who has been "giving back" to the federal government (we the people) the retirement and benefit package that Congress has given themselves- showing by example his beliefs and morals- and he gets cheap shots about the few weirdos donating to his massive campaign funds.
|12.21.07 @ 9:28AM|#
I don't think this is an issue at all. There are more people excited about Ron Paul than there are worrying about who he shook hands with. I'd rather have Paul keep the $500 instead of that idiot Black.
Highway|12.21.07 @ 9:30AM|#
I did like Ron Paul's Dogbert-esque response to people who said he should give back the money, essentially 'Whoever the money comes from, I'm using it to spread liberty and advance my campaign. Would you rather I gave it back to him and let him then use it to advance his agenda that you don't like?"
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 9:33AM|#
The proper response to what LGF is doing, and what the allies of the Republican party establishment in the media are doing, is to bail on the Republican party. Forever.
The face of the Republican party is now a bunch of fucking retards speaking in tongues on the side of I-35 because they think it's a holy highway. Personally I would rather be photographed with Don Black than with a Huckadroid. I prefer evil to crazy and retarded, thank you very much.
Episiarch|12.21.07 @ 9:37AM|#
You have to understand that Charles Johnson is 100% committed to the "war on terror". This is his A-number-1 primo obsession. Anyone, no matter what their other views on any subject, who either a) thinks that the Islamic threat is not WWIV, b) wants to reduce our troop presence in other countries, c) thinks we should finish up in Iraq and not hit Iran, or d) Jeebus forbid thinks all of the above, is a fool, a dangerous kook, and an ostrich with its head in the sand.
Understand this and you understand the attack on Paul. The slightest whiff of Truther, no matter how unjustified, results in utter derision.
|12.21.07 @ 9:41AM|#
This was not a Stormfront event, this was a Values Voters debate.
Must...not...take...bait. Must...be...good...responsible liberal.
Episiarch|12.21.07 @ 9:43AM|#
By the way, the above is not a justification for LGF. It is just an explanation. Johnson is the typical close-minded liberal-turned-neocon (who will then express amazement that sombody calls him neo-"conservative", which is not really what neocon stands for). When he was a liberal, he was absolutely positive about being right about his beliefs, and now he is equally positive about his new beliefs--even though they are totally different from the beliefs he used to be so positive about.
|12.21.07 @ 9:43AM|#
Yesterday I commented on the awfulness of the Wonkette commenters. I forgot the combination of ignorance and hatred that is the fanbase of LGF.
Robert Spencer|12.21.07 @ 9:44AM|#
With respect I must ask: are you people completely nuts? You have attacked me before without substance (details and links to older pertinent material here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016492.php ), but this really takes the cake: above you link to a piece I wrote with the sentence, "His fellow travellers have attacked him for blogging against the Belgian right-wing party Vlaams Belang."
If you had actually bothered to read the post in question, you would see that I actually defend Charles Johnson and say he raises valid points about Vlaams Belang.
When is Reason going to change its name to "Prejudice"?
Cordially
Robert Spencer
www.jihadwatch.org
|12.21.07 @ 9:48AM|#
Drink!
|12.21.07 @ 9:48AM|#
did i get that right?
|12.21.07 @ 9:50AM|#
I agree.. you cant do background checks on everyone that asks for a photo or autograph. If this does grow legs, it will do nothing but give RP airtime rationally explaining this. The $500 donation he didn't return bought him air time on Fox, where he got a chance to explain why he didn't return it and spent 5 minutes talking about foreign policy. Not a bad way to spend that $500.
Episiarch|12.21.07 @ 9:50AM|#
did i get that right?
For a magazine named Reason...
Back when Virginia Postrel was editor...
|12.21.07 @ 9:52AM|#
When is Reason going to change its name to xxx...?
Sounds close enough to me.
|12.21.07 @ 9:58AM|#
Steve S,
Better drink. Just to make sure.
|12.21.07 @ 10:01AM|#
Harping on one small donation is very encouraging. It's a nothing story already growing stale and the fact that they keep jumping on it, means they can't find anything substantive to fling at him.
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 10:07AM|#
OK, Spencer, I'll alert the guys at www.douchebagwatch.com to update their entry on you immediately to reflect the fact that you have lined up solidly behind hatred of Vlaams Belang.
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 10:09AM|#
If the question is how the campaign should respond, the best sentence Paul could utter would be "I am starting to get concerned that this Don Black person is stalking me, and I am asking the Secret Service to look into it." Voila - frame changed.
|12.21.07 @ 10:09AM|#
I wish that was true, Warren.
"Harping on one small discrepancy in his war stories is very encouraging. It's a nothing story already growing stale and the fact that they keep jumping on it, means they can't find anything substantive to throw at him."
|12.21.07 @ 10:09AM|#
Fluffy for the win!
Man, wouldn't THAT be a kick in the pants?
Robert Spencer|12.21.07 @ 10:13AM|#
Ah, "Fluffy," your reasoned, intelligent response has indeed bested me! Alas, I am slain! "Reason" magazine demonstrates its overwhelming intellect yet again, and I retire from the field!
Cordially
Robert Spencer
|12.21.07 @ 10:13AM|#
Ron Paul needs to give the money back and tell these clowns to get the hell away from him. If I were Ron Paul I would go to court and get a restaining order agains this guy coming within 50 feet of me. If Ron Paul does in fact object to being associated with these people, he needs to give their money back.
|12.21.07 @ 10:13AM|#
I don't see the big deal. Haven't many Republican leaders spoken with leaders from neo-Confederate (i.e CofCC) groups or at their events? Usually it's organizations like the SPLC that goes after them for that and it's usually for more than a mere $500 political donation.
|12.21.07 @ 10:16AM|#
I don't think it is fair. I would also like to beleive that Reason would say the same thing if it were McCain or some candidate they didn't like. Unfortuneately, if it were McCain, I would imagine they would be doing the same thing LGF is doing right now or worse.
Episiarch|12.21.07 @ 10:18AM|#
"Reason" magazine demonstrates its overwhelming intellect yet again, and I retire from the field!
Drink again! Robert, keep this up and I'm gonna be hammered.
Jim Henley|12.21.07 @ 10:20AM|#
This would never have happened back when Gillespie was running the magazine.
Lizardoid invasion in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . .
|12.21.07 @ 10:22AM|#
If someone comes forward and proves Black stole the money from them (fraud, collected under false pretenses, etc.) then give it back to them, not Black. Otherwise, the Nazi mofo loses his $500. And, perhaps for many reasons, it is time for RP to have a security detail.
|12.21.07 @ 10:22AM|#
Hey, Robert! I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of eldeberries.
How's that for intellect?
|12.21.07 @ 10:27AM|#
Dr. Paul's lunch with neo-nazis busted?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/whitesupremicistisisraelishill.php
Not sure what to make of it, but it sure seems like a coordinated attack on Dr. Paul. first the donation, then the anonymous posting about a luncheon, and now a 15-second encounter blown up into more than it is.
Perhaps Karl Rove quit his day job to join the Ron Paul campaign too - on the dark side of course.
BakedPenguin|12.21.07 @ 10:29AM|#
If Fluffy's politics were anything other than libertarian, he'd be working as a campaign spin doctor.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 10:38AM|#
I don't think for a second that Paul subscribes to the neo-nazi Stormfront crap.
But I do say he is a Bircher. The John Birch Society and the Ron Paul Revulsion have the exact same to-do list.
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 10:39AM|#
Ummmm...by the way, Spencer, Weigel's piece says that Johnson has been attacked for blogging against Vlaams Belang. As evidence of this, he links to your post, which laments that attacks on Johnson appeared in your comments and that you have taken them down. It sounds to me like the link is, in fact, providing evidence that Johnson has been attacked. You yourself acknowledge in your post that some of those attacks are from people who would otherwise be allies. It doesn't appear to me that there's anything wrong with Weigel's link/cite at all.
Due to what is probably immense egomania, you chose to interpret Weigel's link as a statement that you, personally had launched the attacks being referenced. Where does it say that in Weigel's piece? Please, point it out to me.
I guess you shouldn't try to write for a magazine named Reading Comprehension... [glug].
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 10:41AM|#
Hey Jim from LGF -
Just so you know, anyone who blogs at a site where registration is closed is a great, big pussy.
|12.21.07 @ 10:41AM|#
But I do say he is a Bircher. The John Birch Society and the Ron Paul Revulsion have the exact same to-do list.
That may be a logical fallacy, but at least you tried to be clever.
Here's a cookie...
Robert Spencer|12.21.07 @ 10:42AM|#
Weigel:
Thanks for the correction. Your statement was not clear, especially in light of attempts by CAIR and others to link me to such groups, and I appreciate the clarification.
Classy site you've got here, with high-level commenters. Congratulations.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
|12.21.07 @ 10:44AM|#
Classy site you've got here, with high-level commenters[sic]. Congratulations.
Sorry there, Spencer, I guess we were too busy not being idiots to be classy. We'll try to work on that...
Robert Spencer|12.21.07 @ 10:46AM|#
Taktix:
Yes, I guess so.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Commenter
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 10:47AM|#
That may be a logical fallacy...
No its not. Compare their agendas. The same, except that Paul hasn't brought up the Build a Burgers yet.
|12.21.07 @ 10:49AM|#
Thanks for the correction.
I would also like to thank Weigel for correcting this Robert Spencer fellow.
He seemed genuinely confused, and it was nice of you to set him straight.
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 10:50AM|#
Fuck you, Spencer. That's not a correction. Weigel's merely charitably adding a disclaimer to help out people who are slow on the uptake - like you, apparently.
There was absolutely nothing in the original post as written that needed to be "corrected".
BakedPenguin|12.21.07 @ 10:55AM|#
LGF Jim - yeah, the Birchers are all about ending the War on Drugs.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 10:57AM|#
Fluffy said..
"...anyone who blogs at a site where registration is closed is a great, big pussy."
So then, I suppose you think it takes courage and bravery to blog here using an anonymous ID? Ha.
|12.21.07 @ 10:58AM|#
Careful, Robert, or I shall taunt you again.
|12.21.07 @ 10:59AM|#
What Fluffy said at 10:41.
|12.21.07 @ 11:04AM|#
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2267/1603765701_7d4d42f819_o.jpg
Nuff'said.
severin|12.21.07 @ 11:07AM|#
I know a guy who I can positively identify as a heavy pot smoker. He has a picture of him and Ronald Reagan shaking hands (the photo was actually taken by a secret service agent). I guess this proves that Reagan was a pothead and an associate of known drug users. Guilt by association Little Green Footballs!
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:09AM|#
Gene Trosper said
"nuff said"
Not the same thing at all Gene. Was Gacy an avowed Carter supporter donating cash and support.
|12.21.07 @ 11:13AM|#
Hello, Jim:
Gacy was a Precinct Captain for the Democratic Party and supported the Carter campaign. he even received a security clearance from the Secret Service.
|12.21.07 @ 11:14AM|#
It would be even better if he donated it to The United Negro College Fund, or some other such philanthropic organization.
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 11:15AM|#
Hey Jim -
I can post here, and you can answer my posts. As you have. At LGF, you can post, and other people can't answer your posts. This is by design, because criticism flutters your little heart so much that if you opened registration and left it open you'd have to hide even further under the bed than usual.
My personal identity is irrelevant to the content of my posts. If it was relevant - if I was relating a personal experience and you wanted to check the details, or if I was claiming technical expertise or a credential - you'd have a point. But I haven't, so you don't.
Fluffy|12.21.07 @ 11:15AM|#
Gene -
I believe the youngsters call that "pwned".
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 11:17AM|#
I'm tired of guilt by association politics. Ron Paul hasn't shown a propensity for changing his views in response to campaign contributions. It seems that Jim from LGF doesn't actually think Paul agrees with Black's nutty views on race, so why on earth would he want Paul to donate $500 to Black's cause by returning the money? I'd rather Paul had that $500 and would consider Black losing the money to be no great shame.
|12.21.07 @ 11:23AM|#
For what it's worth, the Spencer cite/link originally confused me too.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:26AM|#
Gene Trosper,
"Gacy was a Precinct Captain for the Democratic Party and supported the Carter campaign."
Thanks for that information. But I'm sure that photo was taken before the evidence came out about Gacy's murders. But its no secret what Don Black stands for.
Still, I'm sure Paul didn't know who Don and Derek Black were or even recognize their names when they likely introduced themselves to him and I'm sure Paul isn't on board with their Nazi crap.
But he has done very little to distance himself from them.
|12.21.07 @ 11:26AM|#
"I am starting to get concerned that this Don Black person is stalking me, and I am asking the Secret Service to look into it." Voila - frame changed.
Fluffy Spinmeister, excellent.
|12.21.07 @ 11:31AM|#
Jim from LGF,
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss (gossip) people.
Where do you fit in?
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 11:32AM|#
Jim - You say he has done very little to distance himself from them, but what more do you want him to do exactly, what would satisfy you? He's stated he doesn't agree with their views, on both the PBS interview and with Glenn Beck, he describes racism on his campaign site as "an ugly form of collectivism," YOU don't even believe he's a racist.
Why then would you want him to give that money back, why are you so desperate for him to give money to a man whose views he doesn't agree with simply because that man made a seemingly irrational decision to donate it in the first place?
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:33AM|#
Hayekian Dreamer
Don Black has already gotten more than $500 in free publicity from the stunt. And really the amount of the check is irrelevant. But it gives Ron Paul more money to spread the exact same message that already attracts Nazis.
I like the idea of him forwarding the donation to the UNCF that mediageek mentioned above. That would be interesting.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:37AM|#
You know another thing I hate about this site? There are too many trolls. It can be annoying.
Also, I love to sniff dog farts.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 11:37AM|#
I think you're making a rather obvious logical fallacy though if you assume that any message that attracts Nazis is inherently something to be avoided, it's a misapplication of the idea that some people subscribe to that if a monster like Hitler appreciated something then decent people should avoid it.
My understanding is Hitler was a dog lover. Should I then be ashamed that I own a dog? Spreading a message of freedom and liberty shouldn't be taken as scary because some white supremacists want to be left alone by government too.
|12.21.07 @ 11:37AM|#
Classy site you've got here, with high-level commenters. Congratulations.
Well, we can't all be as classy as "This is further proof that all muslims are your enemy and must be treated as such."
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:39AM|#
J sub D
Thats clever but a bit too simplistic. All minds great and small discuss ideas, events and other people. I always try to post things that I would feel comfortable discussing with strangers in public.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:40AM|#
Nice nic-jacking Fluffy. That took a lot of bravery and courage.
|12.21.07 @ 11:42AM|#
Jim,
Voltaire once said: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
This issue is a matter of principle. Even scumbags like Don Black have the right to speak, even through campaign donations. The ACLU has defended the KKK in court, but that does not taint the ideal of free expression of political ideas.
Logically, why should *any* candidate give back donations from unsavory individuals? Unless that money was derived from illegal activity (such as robbery, murder and so forth), one person's money is just as good as another's. I'll be honest with you Jim: this isn't about receiving money from a racist nutjob, it's all about trying to taint a candidate you don't agree with.
Let's face facts: each candidate wants to raise as much money as possible and do NOT want to give a penny of it up. the ONLY reason they give it up is due to pressure brought about by opposition research.
It would be intellectually honest if LGF would post a statement saying "we disagree with Ron Paul and want to bring him down by any means necessary". I would have much more respect for this Jerry Springer hit job if the truth were spoken.
Boris Banger|12.21.07 @ 11:46AM|#
My understanding is Hitler was a dog lover.
Your understanding is correct. I know firsthand, as I went back in time and kicked Hitler's dog. Those were some good times.
Episiarch|12.21.07 @ 11:47AM|#
Why the fuck are you arguing with Jim? He and his crowd hate Paul. They will tenaciously cling to any "dirt" like a terrier to a bone because they hope it will scuttle Paul. Ron scares the shit out of them because he may just pull a Nader and torpedo the GOP candidate in this election. Because all that matters to them is the WOT, they want a hard-ass Republican in office.
This isn't about logic, so don't use that with them. It's about discrediting Paul so that he isn't as damaging to any pro-war candidate.
|12.21.07 @ 11:48AM|#
Jim from LGF, thanks for the "clever" nod. Let me be less subtle. Only small minds think tangential associtions that occur to all people are relevent to a discussion of policy, politics, or a public figures morality. Is that spscific enough for you?
Care to discuss the weirdos, jerks, and asswipes that you've been photographed with? Of course not. Being in the same photo frame with somebody, even shaking hands (common courtesy where I grew up), means nothing and you know it.
Edward|12.21.07 @ 11:48AM|#
Unfortunately, Dr. Paul has smeared himeslef by writing crap like this:
The criminals who terrorize our cities -- in riots and on every non-riot day--are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to "fight the power," and to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible. Anything is justified against "The Man." And "The Woman." A lady I know recently saw a black couple in the supermarket with a cute little girl, three years old or so. My friend waved to the tiny child, who scowled, stuck out her tongue, and said (somewhat tautologically): "I hate you, white honkey." And the parents were indulgent. Is any white child taught to hate in this way? I've never heard of it. --Ron Paul
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 11:49AM|#
Hayekian Dreamer
The Hitler-dog reference is a weak comparison. All of the flak about the picture with Don Black would never have happened if Paul had made it clear he wasn't interested in any of their cash or support.
|12.21.07 @ 11:50AM|#
Episiarch:
I'm not arguing with Jim. I am having a conversation with him. I'm not interested in arguments or heated exchanges. I think it is important that we remain principled, even in the face of such attacks.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 11:55AM|#
Jim - As I mentioned, Paul denounced Black in both the PBS and Glenn Beck interview and said he wasn't interested in their cash or support. I still don't see why he should give that money away rather than using it to further his own goals.
|12.21.07 @ 12:01PM|#
Oh Edward is here. I hope somebody with more tolerance for moronic rants than I will alert me if he posts anything relevant, intelligent or humorous.
Thanks in advance.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 12:03PM|#
Hayekian Dreamer
OK then. We'll just have to see how it all plays out. This episode is somewhat akin to how the white supremacists in VB have tried to infiltrate the anti-Jihad movement in Europe. Some say that you should take any help in your cause no matter how unseemly it may be, but I disagree. The ends don't justify the means.
|12.21.07 @ 12:04PM|#
Jim from LGF -
Perhaps your time would be better served denouncing all of the mob money the Catholic church has used to feed the poor, heal the sick, and educate the young. I've heard it's a lot more than $500.
Egosumabbas|12.21.07 @ 12:05PM|#
I wrote a small parody on the Ron Paul and Don Black thing, I hope you enjoy it.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 12:08PM|#
Jim - Do you then object to the candidates (from both parties) who take money from various lobbying groups and then take positions on issues near and dear to them? Which other Republican candidate is LGF holding to this amorphous standard about vetting your supporters? Is it acceptable to take money from a lobbying group whose issues you then support but not acceptable to take money from individuals whose views you DON'T support?
VM|12.21.07 @ 12:12PM|#
JsubD:
EDWEIRRRDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO is better than the LGF twaddlenock, FWIW...
but will do!
|12.21.07 @ 12:13PM|#
I hate that Black guy.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 12:17PM|#
Hayekian Dreamer
The question is, do lobbying groups give money to a candidate in order to buy future favors, or do they support candidates who already pursue the same agenda as their own. I'm sure there are both. But I don't consider Don Black as an individual donor. He runs a neo-Nazi website that promotes and recruits to the cause of white supremacism.
Its not just another lobbying group like the Sierra Club or the NRA.
|12.21.07 @ 12:18PM|#
EDWEIRRRDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO is better than the LGF twaddlenock, FWIW...
but will do!
I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.
Edward|12.21.07 @ 12:25PM|#
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/4/151735/850/188/417817
Across the ideological spectrum, only one presidential candidate has identified in black-and-white terms the "actual and potential terrorists" who are destroying America. That candidate is Ron Paul (R).
Among those who aspire to the White House, only Paul has informed his closest supporters that "our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin." [FN 1]
Paul published a newsletter that issued those words under his byline. He has also taken "moral responsibility" for those words. Yet nine years later, Paul blamed an unnamed staffer for writing them, and claimed that it would have been "too confusing" for him to denounce those words when they were first mailed to his supporters in the column under his byline in the Ron Paul Political Report in 1992.
Either Paul was lying when he admitted to writing those words, or he was telling a belated and convenient lie when he claimed that they were ghost written by an unnamed staffer. Either way, Paul is a liar. Further, he has repeatedly refused media requests to release all of his newsletters. (Paul published the Ron Paul Political Report from 1985 to 1992, then changed the newsletter's name to the Ron Paul Survival Report in 1993.)
Edward|12.21.07 @ 12:27PM|#
Don't kid yourselves. The Nazis didn't choose Ron Paul as their man at random.
Edward|12.21.07 @ 12:29PM|#
Ron Paul has repeatedly refused media requests to release all of his newsletters. Why???
x,y|12.21.07 @ 12:29PM|#
Jim from LGF posted on reason.com/blog
Commenters on reason.com/blog support Ron Paul
Ron Paul once stood next to a white supremacist
OMG LGF'ERS ARE TEH NAZIS!!111!!!!!1
Egosumabbas|12.21.07 @ 12:33PM|#
Edward posts from the daily kos! That bastion of intelligent and reasoned journalism!
Either Paul was lying when he admitted to writing those words, or he was telling a belated and convenient lie when he claimed that they were ghost written by an unnamed staffer. Either way, Paul is a liar. Wow! Totally unsubstantiated claims backed by no evidence whatsoever! You've convinced me Edward, I'm voting for Hillary...
|12.21.07 @ 12:35PM|#
As I mentioned, Paul denounced Black in both the PBS and Glenn Beck interview and said he wasn't interested in their cash or support. I still don't see why he should give that money away rather than using it to further his own goals.
Talk is cheap. He should, literally, put his money where his mouth is. Otherwise, he is materially benefiting from the support of white supermacists.
If making a political donation is "free speech," than accepting that political donation is free speech as well. It is the act of choosing to listen to that speech.
Egosumabbas|12.21.07 @ 12:36PM|#
Ron Paul has repeatedly refused media requests to release all of his newsletters. Why???
Maybe if they weren't written by him, he doesn't retain the copyright for them anymore?
Edward|12.21.07 @ 12:37PM|#
Totally unsubstantiated claims backed by no evidence whatsoever!
The evidence is in what Ron Paul actually fucking wrote. Can't you read?
|12.21.07 @ 12:41PM|#
joe, I agree with you that keeping the money is politically inept. I don't think it's morally wrong. What do you think of my mob money/Catholic church point? Just wondering because the Catholic church, uhhh, keeps the cash.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 12:41PM|#
Talk is cheap. He should, literally, put his money where his mouth is. Otherwise, he is materially benefiting from the support of white supermacists.
Yes, and they're not benefiting. I rather think that's the point. If Paul isn't going to advocate their viewpoint why should he take responsibility for the fact that someone with views he disagrees with donated to his campaign and take any different action than he would with any other donation? Why treat it like it's "special"? I think most people would consider a libertarian benefiting and a racist losing $500 to be a positive development. That's $500 less they can use to spread their filth.
Egosumabbas|12.21.07 @ 12:43PM|#
Hint to Edward: He says he didn't write it. If he says it was ghostwritten, and it's not not of his writing style, I have no reason not to believe him. If he's said "yes I wrote it" or you have a picture of him writing it, by all means bring it forward.
|12.21.07 @ 12:45PM|#
J sub D,
I don't think it's morally wrong, either. On the merits, Ron Paul is exactly right - if those suckers want to give me their money, hey, a fool and his money...
I'm just talking strategery.
As for the Catholic Church, I'd say giving the money to charities, which they do a great deal of, is cool. Using that money to put new gold leaf on something, not so much.
You can talk about Ron Paul's "Good Works" - his presidential campaign - being like a charity, but I doubt you'd find that terribly convincing if the candidate is question was advancing a political agenda you didn't support. It's the element of self-interest inherent in trying to make one's self the most powerful person in the world that puts the kibosh on that argument.
Edwardf|12.21.07 @ 12:46PM|#
Egodumass
If he didn't write it, why the fuck didn't he immediately denounce it and fire the asshoile who did?
Egosumabbas|12.21.07 @ 12:48PM|#
Egodumass
If he didn't write it, why the fuck didn't he immediately denounce it and fire the asshoile who did?
He was on vacation at the time. And very clever mangling of my pseudonym by the way.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 12:48PM|#
J sub D
Don Black donating to Ron Paul aint the same as Don Corleone donating to John Paul. or something like that..
|12.21.07 @ 12:49PM|#
H.D.,
Same to you - it's the element of self-promotion that makes that argument unpersuasive.
Don't worry, I'll use the money for something noble and good - making myself President! You wouldn't buy that line coming from Hillary Clinton.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 12:52PM|#
No, I wouldn't buy that line from Hillary. I've seen her body of work, and I've seen Paul's. Personally I trust Paul not to change whether his donors are hippies or neo nazis. whether he receives money from actors or oil companies. I don't think he panders to his donors, I think he's delivered a rather consistent message over the years.
I think Hillary, or just about any other candidate has been shown to pander to their donors.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 12:52PM|#
To test the logic, take it to the extreme..
So if its such a good thing that Ron Paul now has $500 more and the Nazis have $500 less, why stop there? Maybe he should put out a big media campaign pleading Nazis everywhere to send money to his campaign.
VM|12.21.07 @ 12:57PM|#
oh!oh!oh!
LGF has given a word problem.
Two trains leave stations, 500 miles apart. On one train, Ron Paul is accelerating the money supply by (1/r)^3 units per quantophile. The other train is relying on eye-pleasing, morally superior bible burning for fuel.
What times to those trains reach Omaha?
[clearly not of sound mind]
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 1:00PM|#
Jim - I think that it would be unwise to pander to white supremacists. At the same time, that doesn't explain why Paul should do anything different with the donation, particularly when it was unsolicited. That is, since he DIDN'T solicit it in the first place, why are you trying to hold him responsible for accepting it? If a man walked up to you and handed you $500 and you later found that while he came by that money honestly from his job he also went home that night and killed his wife would you feel moral responsibility for it?
|12.21.07 @ 1:03PM|#
Well, HD, let's remember - we're talking about his political strategy.
Most people are not part of the Ron Paul Cult, ready to accept his unimpeachable propriety without question, the way you do. Most people, quite reasonably and prudently, are going to look at the actions and explainations of this career politician as he describes his decision to take more money to advance his efforts to become the Lord High of All Politicians through the same lens they use to judge the actions of all of the other candidates.
Your personal observations, produced through years of observing him as he served in office, have led you to draw certain conclusions about his beliefs and character. My personal observations, drawn from years observing John Kerry as he served in office, led me to draw certain conclusions about him, conclusions which the public that was just learning about him for the first time through his presidential campaign did not come to agree with.
That's life. If Paul is going to amount to anything more than the boutique candidate preaching to his choir, he needs to make strategic decisions based on how his actions would look to somebody who, say, wouldn't know what a "Hayekian Dreamer" is.
Jim from LGF|12.21.07 @ 1:05PM|#
Hayekian Dreamer
Its not that he accepted it, his staffers may have very well had no idea who Mr. Don Black was when they cashed the check. Its that he sees nothing wrong with keeping it and has so far only made very tepid recriminations against Stormfront and the Nazis promoting him.
Cub fans make a stronger statement when they toss the other team's home run ball back onto the field.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 1:06PM|#
Joe = So you're suggesting Paul is politically inept? That's ok with me, he'll either win or he'll lose, that doesn't tell me why he should bend to fit people's expectations. I think keeping the money is an entirely valid political statement, particularly since the media is then obligated to inform their readership as to "why" that is, Paul's reasoning.
I find Paul's reasoning sound, you do not. We'll let the primary suggest who was right.
|12.21.07 @ 1:08PM|#
Boris Banger:
That song is great. I just added you to myspace friends list.
Hayekian Dreamer|12.21.07 @ 1:10PM|#
Jim - So what IS wrong with keeping it? You know Paul well enough to acknowledge he doesn't agree with Black. reply to this