Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Paul's People
MSNBC national affairs writer Tom Curry has punched up two informative articles on the Paul phenomenon from Iowa—a state whose importance ranks after New Hampshire and South Carolina in the campaign's calculus. He watched Republican officials "sit on their hands" during a Paul speech and chatted with Joe Trippi, Howard Dean's 2004 campaign manager.
“From what I see, Ron Paul is doing much better than his better-known opponents think he is doing. He is at that stage of the Dean campaign when all the other campaigns are laughing at him and have no idea of how strong he really is.”
Trippi added, “This kind of candidacy can be surprisingly strong in a caucus state particularly if it stays just below the radar.”
Drew Ivers, Paul’s Iowa campaign chairman, used that same phrase in addressing the Paul rally in Des Moines Saturday.
Ivers asked for show of hands on how many members of the audience were registered Republicans. Seeing that about half weren’t, Ivers told them they were “under the radar — which is exactly where I want to be.”
Curry points out that Ivers worked for Pat Robertson 20 years ago, and that Robertson shocked almost everybody by placing second in Iowa. And Ivers might provide grist for the anti-Paul blogs:
For Ivers the enemies are “global socialism, the New World Order, empire building… The neo-cons, the elitists who are promoting global socialism” and who say, “We’re smarter and wiser than the masses.” He added, “This is not a conspiracy: the Bilderbergers meet, the G-8 meets” to plan an agenda of globalism.
The companion piece is about something I'm still trying to wrap my head around: Paul's young supporters.
Jacob Bofferding, a student at Iowa State University, said he decided to work for Paul after seeing him on a televised debate.
“For Ron Paul to stand up there and say, ‘people hate us because we intervene in their lives’ and for (Rudy) Giuliani to say ‘that’s ridiculous,’ that blew my mind,” said Bofferding.
“Our imperialistic foreign policy is the biggest threat to this country, not groups of terrorists that have no state sponsor,” Bofferding said. “The first thing you have to do is stop subsidizing oppressive regimes in the Middle East.”
More reason on Paul here.
Abdul|11.1.07 @ 11:11AM|#
"Our imperialistic foreign policy is the biggest threat to
this country, not groups of terrorists that have no state sponsor,"
Bofferding said. "The first thing you have to do is stop
subsidizing oppressive regimes in the Middle East."
Looks like Boffering is for Ron Paul because he thinks the Poli Sci
TA with the cute ponytail will notice him.
|11.1.07 @ 11:12AM|#
"For Ron Paul to stand up there and say, 'people hate us
because we intervene in their lives' and for (Rudy) Giuliani to say
'that's ridiculous,' that blew my mind," said
Bofferding.
That's the point we need Ron Paul to make EVERY time he talks to
anyone. It's his platform in a nutshell.
dhex|11.1.07 @ 11:12AM|#
or alternately because he generally agrees with that
statement.
life is funny like that.
robc|11.1.07 @ 11:18AM|#
Looks like Boffering is for Ron Paul because he thinks the
Poli Sci TA with the cute ponytail will notice him.
Very, very loosely paraphrasing PJ O'Rourke: The most successful
political agenda at any time is the one with the most cute
chicks.
|11.1.07 @ 11:21AM|#
Before Edward gets here: You are all fools, I say. Fools!!! Ron
Paul has no chance you silly deluded libertoonians (see what I did
there? little play on words). What kind of moron supports a
non-interventionist foreign policy and economic responsibility?
Only you big dumb idiots.
Ah, that felt good. I can see why Edward does that so often.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 11:24AM|#
And you're the biggest fool of all, JasonC. Ever considered joining the Urkobolds?
Episiarch|11.1.07 @ 11:24AM|#
Very, very loosely paraphrasing PJ O'Rourke: The most
successful political agenda at any time is the one with the most
cute chicks.
Agreed. Which is why we're screwed :-(
Just kidding. Right? PLEASE HELP US JEEBUS
Hal|11.1.07 @ 11:26AM|#
Iraqi Islamic Party says, "Al Qaeda is Defeated."
O1 November 2007
Iraqi Islamic Party: "Al Qaeda is Defeated"
"Al Qaeda in Iraq is defeated," according to Sheik Omar Jabouri,
spokesman for the Iraqi Islamic Party and a member of the
widespread and influential Jabouri Tribe. Speaking through an
interpreter at a 31 October meeting at the Iraqi Islamic Party
headquarters in downtown Baghdad, Sheik Omar said that al Qaeda had
been "defeated mentally, and therefore is defeated physically,"
referring to how clear it has become that the terrorist group's
tactics have backfired. Operatives who could once disappear back
into the crowd after committing an increasingly atrocious attack no
longer find safe haven among the Iraqis who live in the southern
part of Baghdad. They are being hunted down and killed. Or, if they
are lucky, captured by Americans.
Colonel Ricky Gibbs, the American brigade commander with
responsibility for the Rashid District in south Baghdad today told
me, "So goes South Baghdad goes Baghdad." General Petraeus had told
me similar things about the importance of South Baghdad. In fact,
Rashid is quickly developing into what might be one of the final
serious battlegrounds of the war.
During the meeting, another member of the Iraqi Islamic Party said
that al Qaeda has changed its strategy now that fomenting civil war
between Sunni and Shia has backfired. Al Qaeda has shifted targets,
now trying to generate friction between tribes. This time, however,
the tribes are onto the game early, and they are not playing.
Sheik Omar, who has gained the respect of American combat leaders
for his intelligence and organizational skills, said the tough line
against al Qaeda is also enforced at the tribal level. According to
Sheik Omar, the Jabouri tribe, too, is actively committed to
destroying al Qaeda. So much so, that Jabouri tribal leaders have
decided they would "kill their own sons" if any aided al Qaeda. To
underscore the point, he went on to say that about 70 Jabouri
"sons" had been killed by the Jabouri tribe so far.
In addition to brigade commander Colonel Ricky Gibbs, four of his
battalion commanders were also present: Lieutenant Colonels James
Crider, Patrick Frank, Stephen Michael and Myron Reinehe. Sheik
Omar expressed deep gratitude for their assistance.
Omar's influence extends beyond tribal and party levels, to include
important channels within the Iraqi government and the US military
in Baghdad, as evidenced by the agenda of the hours-long meeting.
But for the talk about al Qaeda, the focus was mostly on other
topics, such as returning displaced persons to their homes,
efficiently delivering basic services and jumpstarting the economy.
In fact, more and more meetings in Iraq are turning to day-to-day
business, and less time is required on military and security topics
like targeting and addressing intelligence-type matters, which
until recently monopolized most meetings across Iraq.
Michael Yon does not receive funding or financial support from Fox
News, or from any network, movie, book or television deals at this
time. He is entirely reader supported. He relies on his readers to
help him replace his equipment and cover his expenses so that he
may remain in Iraq and bring you the stories of our soldiers. If
you value his work, please consider supporting his mission.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 11:32AM|#
This is the sort of stuff that ropes the Storm troopers
in.
global socialism, the New World Order, empire building… The
neo-cons, the elitists who are promoting global socialism" and who
say, "We're smarter and wiser than the masses." He added, "This is
not a conspiracy: the Bilderbergers meet, the G-8 meets" to plan an
agenda of globalism.
R C Dean|11.1.07 @ 11:47AM|#
I think that probably 90% of Paul's young supporters are
anti-war campus activist types.
These sorts also tend overwhelmingly to be lefties on domestic and
social issues, where Ron Paul has a number of positions and a
guiding philosophy that is completely inconsistent with their
own.
I'm wondering how long it will take them to figure this out, and
whether they will continue to support him after it finally sinks
in. It may well be that these are single-issue folks who don't care
what else he stands for, but lefties in general, like most
ideologues, tend to have a whole raft of litmus tests, any one of
which will get you thrown off the island.
It'll be interesting.
thoreau|11.1.07 @ 11:48AM|#
Edward, SHUT UP
WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU!
I wish you could find a way to disappear. All your words they make
no sense.
VM|11.1.07 @ 11:53AM|#
Hal - how'd yooo like a bicycle built for two, even though Daisy
has run off with EEEDDDWWWWAAARRRRDDDDD(ild)OOOOOO?
you wacky H&R posters, you!
thoreau|11.1.07 @ 11:56AM|#
The Left Behind series wasn't quite created. It was unintelligently designed.
ed|11.1.07 @ 12:00PM|#
Robertson shocked almost everybody by placing second in
Iowa
Doesn't that tell you something about Iowa and Iowans?
Urkobold™|11.1.07 @ 12:02PM|#
TOM CURRY? SOUNDS LIKE SOME SORT OF TRANSYLVANIAN TRANSSEXUAL TO THE URKOBOLD.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 12:02PM|#
Hey VM, you forgot to post that under one of your hackneyed
"Urkobold" pseudonyms.
Unfunny fool.
|11.1.07 @ 12:03PM|#
"You think that's Hal Lindsay, famous "creator" of the Left
Behind series?"
Hal Lindsay wrote "The Late Great Planet Earth". Tim Lahaye cowrote
the Left Behind series.
VM|11.1.07 @ 12:04PM|#
While you certainly are correct that I'm an unfunny fool, that
post was deliberate. But thank you for your concern.
WEIBSKOBOLD shall remember this tonight!
VikingMoose|11.1.07 @ 12:04PM|#
now this is an unfunny, foolish post where I'm typing out the
full name.
this is also deliberate.
WE|11.1.07 @ 12:05PM|#
Now I'm typing a foolish and unfunny post using the initials of
the German version of Viking Moose, Wikinger Elch.
Are you catching on yet?
Minion of URKOBOLD|11.1.07 @ 12:07PM|#
AND NOW HIER IS AN ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICALLY FUNNY AND CLEVER AND
WACKY POST AS THE DELIGHTFUL AND TERRIFYING URKOBOLD'S FAVORITE
MINION.
I ALSO TOOK OFF MY PANTS TO TYPE THIS, THEREBY HEIGHTENING THE
JOCULARITY FOR ME.
AFTER ALL, IT'S MY WORLD (MERKINWORLD.COM, FOR
EXAMPLE), AND YOU'RE ALL LIVING IT AS HAPPY TREE FRIENDS
(HAPPYTREEFRIENDS.COM).
DO YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND?
VM|11.1.07 @ 12:12PM|#
OMG!OMG!OMG! Minion - that was hilarious! You win the thread. In
fact, you win at the internets today.
Fantastic!
(see - I'm even president and sole junior member (probationary
status) of my own fan club. And I've written that post down on my
"funni quotz of teh internets" chalk board)
Edward|11.1.07 @ 12:14PM|#
I see my quotes are still up on your website. I'm trying my best
to be civil about this, so I will give you Urkobolds a reprieve:
you have until Monday to remove all references of me from your
website.
I won't be so forgiving come Tuesday.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 12:14PM|#
I wish you could find a way to disappear. All your words they
make no sense.
You have to remember, thoreau, that many are posting in my name.
I'm the one who does make sense.
Ron Paul is a marginal political joke who will have minimal impact
on anything except the fervid imaginations of nitwits like you. How
is that?
VM|11.1.07 @ 12:17PM|#
Hay Eddie - Way to go - make Richard Curtis pay what you two
agreed upon.
That is assuming that this is the Edward, and not another Edward,
as it were, being an imitator of Edward while posting as an
anonymous Edward, of course.
Episiarch|11.1.07 @ 12:18PM|#
I'm the one who does make sense.
Like when you say you'll never post here again, but then do? That
makes sense.
Or when you threaten the URKOBOLD? 'Cuz intarweb threats make TONS
of sense. Maybe you could threaten to kick his ass, too?
GILMORE|11.1.07 @ 12:21PM|#
I like ron paul.
Ron Paul is not going to win any primaries. I offer $5 bet to any
takers up to the first 20 people ($100). I will paypal you on his
first triumph, any state at all. Likewise, you will send me your
dosh at the nomination convention.
Did I mention I like Ron Paul? I do. Hell, I'll even vote for him.
Fat chance for him in NY, but still.
GILMORE|11.1.07 @ 12:23PM|#
You have to remember, thoreau, that many are posting in my
name
>
"For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent
them,' declares the LORD."
VM|11.1.07 @ 12:28PM|#
GILMORE-
even though RP probably won't win, at least that's how it looks
now, do you think he will be the 2008 equivalent of RR in
1976?
All those who want to vote for RP, please do - this is an
opportunity to change the nature of the debate.
For those who won't vote for RP cuz you think he'll lose, realize
there is an opportunity to change the debate.
For those who aren't planning to vote for RP for other reasons, who
do you like instead? Or what elements of RP's message don't you
like (thinking of Kip Esquire's excellent (as usual) thoughts).
|11.1.07 @ 12:33PM|#
I think that probably 90% of Paul's young supporters are
anti-war campus activist types.
Then you are overestimating by 70 or 80%.
I'm wondering how long it will take them to figure this out,
and whether they will continue to support him after it finally
sinks in.
The Ron Paul supporters I've met are smart enough to already be
familiar with his platform and philosophy. Some of the biggest
applause lines at his rallies are for abolishing the federal
reserve, abolishing the income tax, and following the
Constitution.
GILMORE|11.1.07 @ 12:35PM|#
do you think he will be the 2008 equivalent of RR in
1976?
If you mean = establish a new basic platform for the GOP that will
retune them for victory in 2012?
No. I think there WILL increasinly be libertarian *themes* in
candidates platforms, but not the whole hog the way he presents it.
I mean, he's serious! Lets get rid of IRS!!! Nothing would make me
happier. But most Americans think of this stuff as "radicalism" -
on both left and right. It's sad, but true. People want change, but
they fear big structural change. They want a magic happy pill. And
Hilary is all about happy magic pills. Rudy provides magic happy
pill for toughminded paternalists.
Just my impressions. I will await and see how many takers want to
give me $5.
Urkobold™|11.1.07 @ 12:37PM|#
BOFFERDING.
BOFFERDING.
BOFF-ER-DING.
BOFF-HER-DING.
YES, MORE TRANSSEXUALISM IN THIS POSTING. THE URKOBOLD ASKS, WHY?
IS THIS THE EQUIVALENT OF BATHROOM FOOT-TAPPING?
Christian Soldier|11.1.07 @ 12:40PM|#
I like that Ron Paul wants us to be a robust Christian nation because the Constitution talks about God all the time and to leave it up to the states to decide whether atheists can kill little unborn babies and stop giving money to the middle east so they won't hate us like they do and get rid of taxes that atheists use to kill those unborn babies becuase he's a doctor and knows it's bad, he has seen it with his own eyes. God bless Ron Paul.
God|11.1.07 @ 12:45PM|#
Just to clear up any confusion, the reason I am not mentioned in
the Constitution is because I wrote it. Through that tiny, tiny
man, James Madison, true, but I work in mysterious ways.
I did not write the Declaration of Independence or the Harry
Potter novels. I also wrote only ten pages of the Bible. No, I
don't think I'll tell you which ten.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 12:50PM|#
You have to remember, thoreau, that many are posting in my name. I'm the one who does make sense.
You heard him, Thoreau. Don't post his, I mean my, name in
vain.
VM|11.1.07 @ 12:50PM|#
thanks, Gilmore. that means RP's candidacy is very
important!
Oh great URKOBOLD! The One who can answer that question is refusing
to you or any of your minions!
Edward|11.1.07 @ 12:59PM|#
I'm Edward!
And I love Urkobold! Please mock me some more! I enjoy wacky
blogs.
Ron Paul is still a racist pig, however.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 1:11PM|#
No, I'm the real Edward. This is really screwed up, you guys
posting for me.
Also, I enjoy jamming staplers up my ass...
GILMORE|11.1.07 @ 1:11PM|#
Fluffy | November 1, 2007, 12:47pm | #
Gilmore -
How about in the District of Columbia?
aw come on... thats not a real place. I mean like States
dude.
plus, i think Obama will droppa bomba on chocolate city
blood to blood
players to ladies
The last percentage count was eighty
You don't need the bullet when you got the ballot
Edward | November 1, 2007, 1:02pm | #
You guys are going to be so sorry on Tuesday
Dude. Whats your fucking problem? Go find something useful to
do.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 1:13PM|#
Blogger:
Please note that you will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your copyrights. Indeed, in a recent case (please see http://www.onlinepolicy.org/action/legpolicy/opg_v_diebold/ for more information), a company that sent an infringement notification seeking removal of online materials that were protected by the fair use doctrine was ordered to pay such costs and attorneys fees. The company agreed to pay over $100,000.
rho|11.1.07 @ 1:22PM|#
These sorts also tend overwhelmingly to be lefties on
domestic and social issues, where Ron Paul has a number of
positions and a guiding philosophy that is completely inconsistent
with their own.
I'm wondering how long it will take them to figure this
out
This staggering revelation is repeated ad nauseam. I don't think
they're unaware of his other positions. I think they're not
concerned about them, or they rank principled opposition to the
Iraq war higher than, say, federal student loans. (Most of these
people already have their student loans, and Ron Paul isn't going
to yank them out from underneath them.)
More or less, Ron Paul appeals to these people because he has
opinions, isn't afraid to voice them, has a reasoning behind his
opinions, and stands by them.
Edward|11.1.07 @ 1:38PM|#
Dude. Whats your fucking problem? Go find something useful to do.
What? You think I don't do anything useful? My mom works during the
day, so stay home and watch the house and let the dog out when he
needs to pee. I'm on disability because of my hidradenitis, and I'm
having to save my money to get a special tub so I can bathe again
without having to hose off in the yard. If you guys don't cut this
shit out and stop imitating me I'm calling my lawyer.
R C Dean|11.1.07 @ 1:44PM|#
I think that probably 90% of Paul's young supporters are
anti-war campus activist types.
Then you are overestimating by 70 or 80%.
Hope so. Still, I'd love to see some legitimate polling on this. I
suppose the campaign has it, but there's no way they will release
it.
Some of the biggest applause lines at his rallies are for
abolishing the federal reserve, abolishing the income tax, and
following the Constitution.
The applause for abolishing the federal reserve is just . . .
surreal.
I hope a tribe of hard-core libertarians has somehow spontaneously
evolved in our high schools and colleges, man I really do, but my
anecdotal experience is that most Kidz These Days who have any
political awareness are squishy liberals, with a fair chance of
being 9/11 conspiratoids.
|11.1.07 @ 1:49PM|#
The most successful political agenda at any time is the one
with the most cute chicks.
Kucinich?
Edward|11.1.07 @ 1:51PM|#
Why are these threads the only sort of amusement I receive on a daily basis?
Loser. I amuse myself three or four times a day.
|11.1.07 @ 1:52PM|#
What? You think I don't do anything useful? My mom works
during the day, so stay home and watch the house and let the dog
out when he needs to pee. I'm on disability because of my
hidradenitis, and I'm having to save my money to get a special tub
so I can bathe again without having to hose off in the yard.
If you guys don't cut this shit out and stop imitating me
I'm calling my lawyer.
I hope this is a joke.
Nash|11.1.07 @ 1:54PM|#
I think that probably 90% of Paul's young supporters are
anti-war campus activist types.
These sorts also tend overwhelmingly to be lefties on domestic and
social issues, where Ron Paul has a number of positions and a
guiding philosophy that is completely inconsistent with their
own."
At the Michigan student rally, where over 2000 people attended, the
students were burning dollar bills and chanting "abolish the
federal reserve". When Paul said he wanted to abolish the income
tax the crowd cheered. When he talked about getting out of social
security it was more of the same.
These people may not be traditional conservatives, but they don't
sound like leftists either.
Jim Peterson|11.1.07 @ 1:54PM|#
I don't think Ron Paul has many supporters from the left. I
regularly condemn gender feminism on Ron Paul blogs, for
instance.
Nobody tries to bite my head off...so I don't imagine many liberals
are there.
I think OIF was great and I am proud that the troops are securing
Baghdad.
But I still support Ron Paul for President at the moment because
Giuliani won't mention the Constitution very much and he won't even
condemn gender feminism.
We need to dismantle lots of federal agencies like the
unconstitutional Office on Violence Against Women. So I like it
when Ron Paul says he wants to dismantle the giants.
We all know he won't succeed with the big plans, but his influence
might succeed in getting trillions in pork removed.
Meanwhile, I want to see Ron Paul place 1, 2 or 3 in a lot of
primaries.
GILMORE|11.1.07 @ 2:13PM|#
Jim Peterson =
I think OIF was great and I am proud that the troops are
securing Baghdad.
Wow.
As far as it matters, the troop surge has conincided with drops in
sectarian violence, not been a primary cause of it. There are tons
of articles about the balkanization of bagdhad being largely
complete, which is the prime reason for less instra-sect stress in
Bdad. Sure, more troops dont hurt. Mahdi etc is waiting for months
for eventual US stand down to resume their consolidation of power
in the south. British already on the way out. Next fight: control
of basra by which shia tribe? This is not something we stand around
and pat ourselves on the back for. Any more the initial success of
Afghanistan is any reason to be happy with the way things are going
now.
GILMORE|11.1.07 @ 2:14PM|#
Meanwhile, I want to see Ron Paul place 1, 2 or 3 in a lot
of primaries.
Does that mean you take my $5 bet above? You'd be the first. Come
on, show some spine!
Anthony Gregory|11.1.07 @ 2:16PM|#
It's obvious why young people like Ron Paul. They are sick of the war, the Social Security oppression, the taxes, the meddling in their personal lives, the war on drugs, and politics as usual. Why wouldn't they love him?
|11.1.07 @ 2:17PM|#
Jim - you are completely retarded. It's ok, we can fix it. You
just need to follow my instructions very carefully:
Now, hold your breathe, and count to 500,000. If you're still
reading this then double the number and try again.
For everyone else reading this, you're welcome.
|11.1.07 @ 2:40PM|#
Loser. I amuse myself three or four times a day.
Edward, that's amuse, not abuse.
No need to thank me.
|11.1.07 @ 2:44PM|#
Brownwyn wrote: "Cold, hard truth: Most voters have never
heard of Ron Paul. Sorry."
It doesn't matter right now how well he is known in the mainstream.
It only matters that the number of people who have heard of him
that vote in the primaries are greater in number than those that
turn out to support the other candidates. I am betting, based on
the turn out in the numerous straw polls, that the motivation and
numbers are there.
Tacos mmm...|11.1.07 @ 2:51PM|#
Cold, hard truth: Most voters have never heard of Ron Paul. Sorry.
Cold, hard truth: Most voters don't vote in the primaries.
|11.1.07 @ 3:53PM|#
For Ivers the enemies are "global socialism, the New World Order, empire building… The neo-cons, the elitists who are promoting global socialism" and who say, "We're smarter and wiser than the masses." He added, "This is not a conspiracy: the Bilderbergers meet, the G-8 meets" to plan an agenda of globalism.
Every time I get my hopes up that Ron Paul might actually win the
nomination, along comes some news that dashes them into the dust.
This time it's news that his Iowa campaign chairman is a freaking
conspiracist.
R C Dean|11.1.07 @ 3:58PM|#
It's obvious why young people like Ron Paul. They are sick
of the war, the Social Security oppression, the taxes, the meddling
in their personal lives, the war on drugs, and politics as usual.
Why wouldn't they love him?
Beats me, but I can't figure out why the majority of people (and
the vast majority of young people) support more Social Security,
more taxes, and more meddling in their personal lives.
With the young 'uns, you may get more skepticism about the WOD, but
it never seems to translate into real votes.
Nash|11.1.07 @ 4:13PM|#
"Beats me, but I can't figure out why the majority of people
(and the vast majority of young people) support more Social
Security, more taxes, and more meddling in their personal
lives.
With the young 'uns, you may get more skepticism about the WOD, but
it never seems to translate into real votes."
That might have been the case in the 90's during "Rock the Vote"
but I don't know if that's really true anymore.
I think most "young people" realize that universal health care is
not "free" and that social security isn't gonna be there in 50
years. They also realize that the democrats got into office and
didn't do anything about the war and extended the patriot act. Once
they come to terms with this that opens up a whole new line of
thought about what the government should and shouldn't be
doing.
Paul's campaign may be resonating with them in spite of his plans
to get government out of health care, but in doing so they might be
starting to agree with him.
The freedom movement is real. It probably won't translate into a
Paul victory next year (but I'm not going to rule it out) but it
certainly is going to impact the direction of the Republican party
and may very well have an enormous impact on presidential elections
in the future.
Tom|11.1.07 @ 4:16PM|#
Why are these threads the only sort of amusement I receive
on a daily basis?
Well, I suppose it's good that somebody's getting something useful
out of them. Because frankly -- and here's the part where I get to
be called a humorless jackass, etc. -- I think all the "Urkobold"
crap and fake posting under others' names is a waste of everyone
else's time.
I've found myself spending less and less time at this site because
of it, and I'm sure I'm not alone. And the problem now is that the
less time one spends here, the less time one CAN spend here; the
in-jokes and meta-references get so knotty and complex that it
becomes that much more cumbersome trying to wade through
threads.
Yep, a humorless jackass. But also a guy who just wants to be able
to read Hit & Run without threads all clogged up by some small
group of geeks that has decided this place is theirs.
|11.1.07 @ 4:26PM|#
Tom,
Understood, but I think you may be mistaking cause and effect. The
trolls have been overwhelming many a Hit & Run thread for a
long time now. Some of us decided to fight back by automatically
blocking certain postings, others by fighting fire with fire. To
each his own. I certainly see plenty of serious comments here, and
I'll pit this set of commenters against any other in the political
blogging realm.
Tom|11.1.07 @ 4:50PM|#
Why are trolls bad? Because they suck up the oxygen in a forum
and waste readers' time. From a neutral observer's viewpoint,
that's EXACTLY what the Urkobold-etc. stuff does too.
I don't know... Again, maybe I'm just a sourpuss, but I kinda liked
Hit & Run better when it wasn't a "community" or whatever it is
now. I'm not here to soak up the Fun 'N Antics of one small group
of posters that has taken it upon itself to commandeer threads
because it feels some vague sense of ownership here.
But what do I know. Nobody owes me anything. I'm mostly just a
lurker anyway...
|11.1.07 @ 4:53PM|#
Tom,
Though I am not one of the URKOBOLDians, I cannot argue with their
results; the comment threads are, I believe, less troll-ridden now
than they were before.
URKOBOLD is a painful cure, to be certain, but he is not worse than
the disease.
And I get what you're saying about the in-jokes, though there are
really only about a dozen metareferences/in-jokes floating around,
I think. Maybe someone should post a quick "H&R In-Joke
Roundup" every so often.
Tom|11.1.07 @ 5:00PM|#
URKOBOLD is a painful cure, to be certain, but he is not
worse than the disease.
How exactly does it function as a cure, and of what? What am I
missing here? Most of it just reads like a bunch of arbitrary
gobbledygook. How does it dissuade trolling? I mean, how does a
troll even become aware it's directed at him, let alone take from
it some message?
I'm not saying you're wrong, by any means, just curious what I'm
missing.
|11.1.07 @ 5:37PM|#
Tom-above all, the trolls want to be noticed and taken
seriously. The mighty URKOBOLD (his name be praised, lest he wither
your taint) grants the first wish-in spades. However, the second
part is not granted. The trolls are treated as the simpering twits
they are in a positive feedback loop of stupidity.
That's the idea, anyway. With any luck, the twits will be driven
away, and the grown-ups will be able to return to their
conversations.
VM|11.1.07 @ 5:40PM|#
just curious what I'm missing.
a sense of humor, of course.
SO THE URKOBOLD SHALL CONTINUE TO WHITHER TAINTS, MAKE INSIDE
JOKES, META REFERENCES, AND POST GOBBLEDYGOOK AND USE SELF-INVENTED
WORDS, SUCH AS "TWADDLENOCK".
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, WELL, YOU CAN SOAK YOURSELF IN CORN SYRUP,
READ UP ON THE ANCIENT GREEKS BEFORE YOU EMBARRASS YOURSELF ANY
FURTHER, CONTACT A MELETARY LOIER, GET JOHN AND joe A ROOM, WONDER
WHERE LEFTY AND LAZ LONG ARE, HUMP THE NOAM CHOMSKY BLOW UP DOLL,
AND RE-READ THE LEATHER-BOUND EDITION OF HEATHER HAS TWO
MOMMIES (THE EDITION WITH THE SWEATY PILLOW FIGHT SCENE ON
PAGE 69), CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, THREATEN TO LEAVE, BE A SHILL
FOR BIG WEIGAL, ORLY, FIGHT OFF THE IRANIAN DENTISTS (HIER), ENJOY
THE SALTY HAM TEARS OF RICK SANTORUM'S DOG, WONDER WHICH PERSON IS
GOING TO CHANGE THEIR BACKSTORY AGAIN (AND WHO WILL NOTICE), MISUSE
THE WORD "MEME", GET PISTOL WHIPPED FOR USING THE WORD
"SHENANIGANS" AGAIN, GUESS THE CLASH REFERENCE, STUDY THE DEMAND
KURV WHEN ADDRESSING THE LAUGHTER CURVE, AND WONDER, WHERE THE HELL
MR. STEVEN CRANE IS.
THERE. YOU'RE CAUGHT UP.
IF YOU HAVE ANY HUMOR WHATSOEVER, YOU SHOULD SEE THAT THIS IS THE
MOST FREAKIN HILARIOUSEST LAUGH RIOT, YOU ARE PERFECT FOR
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT.
Minion of URKOBOLD|11.1.07 @ 5:41PM|#
OH YEAH, ALMOST FORGOT:
"I HAVE POST #69"
"CUPCAKES. THERE. ARE YOU LISTENING NOW?"
YOU SHILL FOR DAILY LITTLE TINY GREEN KOS FOOTBALLS.
Dr. Troy Camplin|11.1.07 @ 5:45PM|#
I know why young people like Ron Paul: it's refreshing to hear
someone speak who isn't trying to blow smoke. He says what he means
and means what he says, and he doesn't seem to care what anybody
else thinks about it. In this respect, he's completely politically
incorrect. And young people like that.
Or, at least, a certain demographic of them like it. Probably the
same demographic of students who like me as their professor. Which
is not many, but may make a difference if they actually go out and
vote for a change.
|11.1.07 @ 5:49PM|#
Tom,
Commentary here used to be a lot less cluttered. To be honest,
we've attracted a lot of people who can't stand libertarian ideas
but have some strange attraction to this blog. While I have no
objection to reasoned dissent, we seem to get more kneejerk b.s.
than anything that challenges our belief systems.
On the flip side, this place has always had lots of silly and not
so silly humor, and we have the usual disease of liking obscure
references. Oh, well.
From my perspective, it depends on what threads you're reading how
much things get out of hand. Some topics have great commentary,
others degrade very quickly. Even without trolls, partisans, or
Urkobolds unbound, we seem to fall into pretty pointless debates on
the same subject matter from time to time. Look at a theist-atheist
thread sometime.
VM|11.1.07 @ 5:50PM|#
And objectivists are libertarians but all libertarians aren't
objectivist.
oh yeah? A is A!
Cheetos in Grandma's basement. GO WAY! BATIN! Heading off to
Stevo's bunk. Draggin' yer junk over broken glass. Akira's love of
religion [ducks]. keed keed. New Wave Friday, Stage whispers, why
do you hate america?, etc. etc. etc.
Dr Troy: he might be un PC in his lingo, but if you attach his
lingo with his voting record, it paints the picture of a very
savvy, shrewd politician. Therein might be the key to his success
(if not winning, then by changing how the debate is framed).
Tom|11.1.07 @ 6:52PM|#
Yeah, all right, VM -- you think it's funny, I think it
mindlessly wastes everyone else's time. I visit political boards to
read and write about ideas, not to hack through a bunch of all-caps
overgrowth left by a few posters who appear to now think the
Community™ is more interesting than the ideas that get exchanged
inside it.
I know it's a tired old adage, and hard as hell to heed, but the
way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. If you're here simply to
read and write about ideas, that's what you'd do -- you simply
wouldn't engage them in idea-exchanging. At that level it's pretty
simple and basic. It's when a web board gets turned into a frikking
"community" or whatever that people start thinking of trolls as
some real issue to be combatted. I mean, come on. Who cares. You
leave them alone, and all they do is clutter up space. You engage
them -- let alone initiate an entire convoluted campaign against
them, homepage and all -- and now you're cluttering up the space
too.
Pro Libertate, thanks for the considered responses.
barry broome|11.1.07 @ 10:22PM|#
interesting article - i'm curious as how many delegates paul will pull. there's really no way to tell. I think he'll be around the 10% mark in Iowa - hope it's higher.
Jim Peterson|11.2.07 @ 1:39AM|#
Is Reason libertarian?
You could have fooled me. Where is discussion of Internet
regulation like IMBRA?
Where is discussion of how the NOW slipped things into VAWA so that
a woman can now move in with a rich man, wait a month, claim false
"abuse" and end up with his house, car and bank account?
I don't see most blogs anymore as left, right or libertarian. I see
them as generally clueless.
And maybe that is why Ron Paul attracts. Most Ron Paul supporters
may also be clueless, but at least they sense that the media and
the blogosphere are as well. :-0
VM|11.2.07 @ 9:50AM|#
Tom - pretty good writing - I only had to wipe your spittle away
a few times. That one part, however, it was clear you got your mom
and dad to help out. What, pre-Algebra homework got you down?
Now pull a Dan T - warm up the drinking game, and since you don't
like it, move.
|11.7.07 @ 12:11PM|#
For the guy who can't just post a link:
who cares about South Baghdad? Not my concern. Who cares about
Iraq, it had nothing to do with 9-11. Who cares about nation
building when our OWN NATION is falling apart?
Get real people, the Bush/Clinton elites have ruled us and ruined
us for too long.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245