The Friday Political Thread: Nobel-Winning Editon

David Weigel | October 12, 2007

The week in brief...

- Nine Republicans, including Fred Thompson, met in Dearborn, Michigan to ostensibly debate economics. But hosts couldn't resist themselves and fielded a few questions about foreign policy, which tripped up Mitt Romney in a classic non-gaffe gaffe.

- Barack Obama, tired of being taunted for not attacking Hillary Clinton by name, attacked Hillary Clinton by name.

- Google might have banned a GOP senator's campaign from buyings ads.

- Al Gore edged past Gen. David Petraeus and nabbed the Nobel Peace Prize. You might have heard about this.

- National Journal (relucantly) bumped Ron Paul up to 5th place in their race rankings, above Mike Huckabee and below John McCain.

Larger issues...

Siren's Tsongas. On Tuesday voters in Massachusetts' 5th Congressional district will elect a replacement for Democratic Rep. Marty Meehan. The Democrat is Nicola "Nikki" Tsongas, wife of the late Sen. Paul Tsongas, who represented this district in the 1970s. The Republican is Jim Ogonowski, a farmer and retired air force colonel. Lost the endorsements of the Boston Herald and the Lowell Sun, both of which endorsed George W. Bush in 2004. Meehan easily won this district by better than 25-point margins, but public polls show Tsongas only leading by nine or 10 points. So Democrats are sweating it and Republicans are cautiously optimistic about an upset.

Most of what needs to be said about the race is said here by Domenico Montarano: Ogonowski has run as an anti-Washington candidate, never mentioning his party affiliation. (Nice display of the Feiler Faster Thesis here—11 months after people kick the GOP out to "fix" Congress, they think it's broken again.) If it's working with voters, it's failing with newspapers. The Lowell Sun and Boston Herald, both papers that endorsed Bush over Kerry, endorsed Tsongas. (The only actual issue Ogonowski is running on is opposition to illegal immigration; if he loses, there's another data point against that issue doing a lick of good for the GOP.)

Will Al Gore Run for President? No, Al Gore won't run for president.

Will Ron Paul Run for President if the GOP Doesn't Nominate Him? Ah, that's a more interesting question. According to Paul, every time he's been asked, the answer is no. But it's the question among libertarians in DC right now. Some want him to fight on assuming he loses the GOP primary, letting his House seat go and becoming probably the most successful independent libertarian candidate in histroy. Some want him to stay in the House, imbued with new fame, fans and clout. Downsides to scenario one: If, as would seem likely, Republicans lose the White House and the Democratic candidate doesn't break 50 percent, many will blame Paul for bringing back the Clinton dynasty (or creating an Obama one). You can look at Ralph Nader's post-2000 career to see what would happen after that. Downsides to scenario two: Paul's fame will fade after the election and most reporters will blow off his speeches about fiat money and ask him whether he'll run in 2012. If that second scenario's more likely it's because Paul cares less about his own fame and personality cult than Nader ever did.

Below the fold...

- Leslie Wayne profiles Bill Richardson, who's going to surge past John Edwards... any day now.

- Ron Paul does the Washington Post's live chat.

- PBS and Fox News are both doing Dick Cheney specials this weekend. One is titled Dick Cheney: No Retreat. The other is The Dark Side. Guess which network is doing which special.

It wasn't a slow news week, per se, but in case we're getting restless about this I give you: Politics 'n' Prog.

Help Reason celebrate its next 40 years. Donate Now!

Try Reason's award-winning print edition today! Your first issue is FREE if you are not completely satisfied.

SIV|10.12.07 @ 7:22PM|#

Romney's "gaffe" showed he is unfit for the office. Ron Paul's response to the same question
showed he is fit for the office.

Win Win

iih|10.12.07 @ 7:23PM|#

You can look at Ralph Nader's post-2000 career to see what would happen after that.

And libertarians and libertarianism will damned for a long time to come, and what ever Ron Paul built on the popular/grass roots level would all be lost. He should not run as an independent. Good decision by RP.

|10.12.07 @ 7:32PM|#

Am I the only one that REALLY wants to nail the T-shirt chick. I mean ... really wants to.

|10.12.07 @ 7:35PM|#

You know what t-shirt chick is thinking? She's thinking "what the fuck is this terrible song"?

|10.12.07 @ 7:36PM|#

Ron Paul on PBS (NewsHour) RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

...And don't write off Paul's supporters as simply angry anti-U.N. black helicopter types. There's been anger from the GOP's less-government libertarian wing for some time, and Paul may be becoming the protest vehicle for those folks. It'll be interesting to see which of the front-runners actually "gets it" and tries to co-opt some of Paul's supporters.

So who's up for being co-opted?

|10.12.07 @ 7:39PM|#

Am I the only one that REALLY wants to nail the T-shirt chick. I mean ... really wants to.

She could even eat crackers in bed. No talking politics though.

iih|10.12.07 @ 7:40PM|#

crimethink:

Too late now, it was an hour and half ago on the East coast. Plus, there is the Red Sox game now. (sheepishly, yankees suck)

|10.12.07 @ 7:41PM|#

Uh, I'm in Eastern Time too...must be different for every market.

ed|10.12.07 @ 7:41PM|#

Am I the only one that REALLY wants to nail the T-shirt chick. I mean ... really wants to

If you like your women brainless and scientifically enhanced, then go for it, doood.
She's a "conservative" like I'm a carrot.

Not that she shouldn't be eaten.

It's amazing how many "political pundits" base their rankings on random telephone surveys, rather than objective evidence such as crowd sizes, Internet traffic, fundraising, volunteer counts, straw poll results, etc.

They had Sam Brownback ahead of Ron Paul last time, almost as if they hadn't been paying attention to what was actually happening in the race at all.

|10.12.07 @ 7:44PM|#

hey guys let's start a right wing conspiracy to say Al Gore didn't deserve the nobel peace prize when we all know in our hearts that he actually did! powerpoints are AWESOME!

iih|10.12.07 @ 7:44PM|#

Uh, I'm in Eastern Time too...must be different for every market.

I am sure its gonna be on YouTube shortly afterwards.

iih|10.12.07 @ 7:46PM|#

Oh, that is why then. I have been confused as to why the girl on the right was missing a pair of pants. That explains it all. ;-) Free market at its "best".

|10.12.07 @ 7:50PM|#

The PBS interviewer just asked Ron Paul what he would do to prevent Va. Tech type shootings.

They're giving him 25 minutes, so I guess I can't complain, but...

|10.12.07 @ 7:52PM|#

...there is the Red Sox game now. (sheepishly, yankees suck)

iih, Don't like those first round exits, huh. Hey, they won a post season game in each of the last two seasons. ;-) Lost 6 though. :-(
The peasants rejoice!

|10.12.07 @ 7:57PM|#

Audio of Ron Paul's interview is available as an MP3 here.

wright|10.12.07 @ 7:58PM|#

Paul was quite good on PBS. He was relaxed and really quite charming. It was one of the best interviews of him that I've seen.

iih|10.12.07 @ 7:59PM|#

J sub D:

We're in the here and now my friend. BTW, I know you were for Cleveland, not out of love for them, but out of hate for the yankees. Are you rooting for them again against the Sox, or you pretty much don't care?

iih|10.12.07 @ 8:02PM|#

crimethink:

Audio of Ron Paul's interview is available as an MP3 here.

Thanks.

|10.12.07 @ 8:03PM|#

It strikes me that Paul would need some support from the GOP "establishment" to do well. And I don't so much mean the elected officials and party chairs (down to the county and ward level), though that is important and he will probably not get it. But I mean from the pundits, talk show hosts, magazines, etc.. I don't see that happening, but maybe people with stronger stomachs than me who read the Washington Times, watch FoxNews and listen to Sean Hannity or Dobson know of some good buzz that I don't.

I am not however one of those nuts like Edward who posts "Paul can't win blah blah." Who cares who wins, especially in a primary? People should vote for who they really want to for Pete's sake.

|10.12.07 @ 8:04PM|#

Conservative t-shirt girl has a killer body but what a sourpuss. She'd probably start muttering about perfecting the Jews as soon as I got the shirt off. Now at that point I wouldn't really care, but still...

|10.12.07 @ 8:07PM|#

One of the reasons why I think the Washington Times, Limbaugh, NR, Weekly Standard, Foxnews, etc. have no real chance of supporting Paul is that they have never really been about ideas, conservative, libertarian or otherwise. They are about their relationship with a particular party which will get them close to people in power. They think Paul can't deliver that for them, so they are not interested. In a way its a self-fulfilling prophecy, and a shame because Paul says a lot of things that the average American, I think, could relate to (even though if it was put into practice I don't think they would like it). And you kind of have to grant he's got the most intellectually coherent and consistent platform I can remember since Jerry Brown for the Dems in 1992 (like him or not he was always willing to talk, and talk, and talk about his liberalism and the guy was not stupid).

iih|10.12.07 @ 8:15PM|#

They are about their relationship with a particular party which will get them close to people in power.

Not only that. They also know their readers. Whatever their type of readers want, they give. Populism, yet again. Anyone operating on principle won't get much back.

I wonder, by the way, how do people here feel about Democracy now!? Their audience is pretty low because Amy Goodman holds on to a set of principles no matter what. Her interview with Bill Clinton was amazingly embarrassing and confrontational on election day in 2000. She could have been lenient on him, but she went for the "principles" and made him loose his cool. A few years before Clinton looses his cool on Fox.

|10.12.07 @ 8:15PM|#

Are you rooting for them again against the Sox, or you pretty much don't care?

Pretty much don't care. But I always root for the American League winner in the World Series, unless it's the Yankees.

|10.12.07 @ 8:21PM|#

I don't have time to read/listen/watch all of Ron Paul's interviews. How in the world does a 72-year old guy keep up with it all, and still manage to provide some level of service to his constituents? Is there an army of Ron Paul clones, simultaneously doing interviews and giving speeches all over the country?

|10.12.07 @ 8:22PM|#

|10.12.07 @ 8:25PM|#

Also, yes, I would very much like to nail the t-shirt chick. But, it would have to be in a very degrading, nasty, hair-pulling, "who's your daddy now?" kind of way. Otherwise I'd feel like I was selling out my principles.

In other news...

Senator Edward Kennedy underwent a one hour surgery to remove plaque in an artery that feeds his brain. Doctors are optimistic that the operation will be successful, but caution that a 100% unobstruction of the artery can only be verified if the Senator endorses Ron Paul for president.

|10.12.07 @ 8:31PM|#

Is there an army of Ron Paul clones, simultaneously doing interviews and giving speeches all over the country?

...and, most importantly, voting multiple times in text message polls? ;-)

|10.12.07 @ 8:35PM|#

That interview shows how well Paul can perform if he's given time to explain himself, rather than having to answer complicated questions in 30 seconds and then wait 20 minutes before he talks again.

iih|10.12.07 @ 8:39PM|#

That interview shows how well Paul can perform if he's given time to explain himself, rather than having to answer complicated questions in 30 seconds and then wait 20 minutes before he talks again.

He also refuses to give shallow, good-sounding (with all the buzz words "victory", "honor", "American dream", etc) 30-second answers. Instead he tries to say as much as he can in 30-seconds. That is why it comes across as if he's racing. Unfortunately, I think, it all flies over average joe's head.

|10.12.07 @ 8:45PM|#

I had the most wonderful vision; the morning John McCain is told he's fallen behind Ron Paul.

What?!! Who?!! *Gets up, stalks around, grimaces and mutters.*

|10.12.07 @ 8:48PM|#

What?!! Who?!! *Gets up, stalks around, grimaces and mutters.*

Surprisingly enough, that's also joe's reaction upon discovering iih thinks Ron Paul's answers fly over his head.

|10.12.07 @ 8:49PM|#

Does anybody care about the Congressional race in the Massachusetts 5th district?

|10.12.07 @ 8:50PM|#

I think Paul has gotten quite good in his public appearances.

Anonymo the Anonymous|10.12.07 @ 8:59PM|#

Am I the only one that REALLY wants to nail the T-shirt chick.

Am I the only one who has never seen this alleged hot t-shirt chick? I thought maybe my Firefox was blocking the ad so I checked in IE, nothing there either. In Firefox, from top to bottom, the ads on the right I see are Drew Carey, "The Best Laid Plans", "Radicals for Capitalism" and Reason in D.C. Oct. 26-27. In IE, I also see the Great American God-Out, something about the "secret stock market", an Amazon search box and two different Reason subscription ads -- one with animated fireworks, the other pitching the contents of the current issue. Some text ads only on the left.

I'm aware there are many ways to see hot girls on the Internet (at least that's the rumor), but am I seriously the only one not getting this ad?

iih|10.12.07 @ 9:03PM|#

Anonymo the Anonymous:

but am I seriously the only one not getting this ad?

Looks like it. I have Firefox too. Hmmm, says something about H&R readers except for anonymo?

DDS|10.12.07 @ 9:04PM|#

yeah. you're missing out anonymo

iih|10.12.07 @ 9:04PM|#

Looks like it. I have Firefox too.

And I see her in my browser, BTW.

Anonymo the Anonymous|10.12.07 @ 9:13PM|#

Weird. Now I'm just curious about why I'm not seeing it. Maybe some kind of geographical targeting based on IP ranges or something? I disabled a few Fx extensions but that wasn't doing it, and, like I said, didn't see it in IE either. Any chance my ISP (Bellsouth/AT&T, whatever it's called now), is blocking it before it gets to me (can't see how or why they'd do that, but I dunno)?

Not running PeerGuardian or anything else that might be blocking the host that serves the ad either.

iih|10.12.07 @ 9:21PM|#

Anonymo:

I personally find the ad insulting. While I would certainly appreciate a girl that cute, if the sellers think that this is their best way to sell me a t-shirt (a cute girl with no pants), I guess it tells you something about the seller and (their kind of) "conservatives".

|10.12.07 @ 9:34PM|#

The libertarian movement needs a hot chick to pose in liberty-oriented shirts. Paging Rachel Mills!

Not that I'm looking, but she's a bit weird-shaped, isn't she?

|10.12.07 @ 9:36PM|#

Gene,

We've already got Kerry Howley. No need to push our luck... ;-)

|10.12.07 @ 9:48PM|#

No, seriously, we're out of control up here! We're about to elect Pual Tsongas's widow to Congress! Look out, don't get in our way!

Isn't that so much more fascinating than t-shirt girl?

Hello?

Her opponent's brother died on...ah, forget it.

iih|10.12.07 @ 9:52PM|#

joe:

What are the chances of Oginowski?

|10.12.07 @ 9:53PM|#

Not that I'm looking, but she's a bit weird-shaped, isn't she?

Not that I'm looking either, but if you click the T-shirt chick's picture, then go to the bottom of the ad you see the following models in T-shirts:

From left to right, The InstaPundit Glenn Reynolds, his wife Dr. Helen Smith, Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin, Drew Curtis of Fark.com, Mary Katharine Ham of Townhall.com, CNET.com Senior Editor Wil O'Neal, and author/blogger Bill Whittle.

It's frightening, although Mary Katharine Ham ain't too bad.

iih|10.12.07 @ 9:54PM|#

Oh, and which area if the 5th district?

|10.12.07 @ 10:03PM|#

We're about to elect Pual Tsongas's widow to Congress!

OK...but the important question is, how does she look in a tight t-shirt?

mynemyne|10.12.07 @ 10:07PM|#

As my mom was flipping channels I was telling her a story but noticed Ron Paul being interviewed and yelped for her to switch back. After the interview was over, she was stunned that a politician actually answered the questions he was asked. Not the question he wanted to be asked but the true question. No hemming, no hawwing, no obfuscating.

mynemyne|10.12.07 @ 10:10PM|#

...And I loved the response to the Va. Tech question. Freedom isn't perfection

TLB|10.12.07 @ 10:10PM|#

I don't know enough about the Ogonowski race, but I'm going to guess that Weigel made a misleading statement above. If Ogonowski is running on opposition to illegal activity, I have a feeling that the national GOP isn't helping him out. Bad for business, if you know what I mean.

For a past example, see the RandyGraf campaign, with the national GOP almost coming out with an endorsement for his Democratic opponent just because he would have cost the GOP's backers money.

It's odd how hacks keep forgetting to mention things like that.

|10.12.07 @ 10:39PM|#

Am I the only one that REALLY wants to nail the T-shirt chick. I mean ... really wants to.

She could even eat crackers in bed. No talking politics though.

J sub D -- you're assuming she's conservative because she's getting paid to wear a shirt saying conservative. That's like assuming the women modeling women's clothes in glossy catalogs are female, when quite a few are shemales.

Hotter women than that on sillythumbs.com, in particular Katja Kean.

|10.12.07 @ 10:40PM|#

I had the most wonderful vision; the morning John McCain is told he's fallen behind Ron Paul.

This is key. Paul will get mainstream media exposure beyond his wildest dreams if he simply passes media darling McCain in either fundraising or polling. It will be the upset of the century, and will propel him indisputably into the first tier. Paul is already breathing down McCain's neck. Everyone, get behind and help push.

|10.12.07 @ 10:50PM|#

joe:

What are the chances of Oginowski

... nailing hot T-shirt girl?

iih, joe, try to stay on topic, mmm-kay?

iih|10.12.07 @ 11:15PM|#

iih, joe, try to stay on topic, mmm-kay?

Haaa. Gillespie, Wiegal, et al. have to do something about these pictures, otherwise H&R will loose its reputation because of its adolescent commenters.

|10.12.07 @ 11:26PM|#

Haaa. Gillespie, Wiegal, et al. have to do something about these pictures, otherwise H&R will ~~loose~~ maintain its reputation ~~because of its~~ for adolescent commenters.

Fixed, iih.

Actually, Reason might respond by bumping up their ad rates since the ads are obviously getting attention -- though it's questionable whether they're actually selling any product. Perhaps they should have the same chick wear a shirt saying "libertarian"? Or "I survived Kelo v. New London"?

Bhh|10.12.07 @ 11:38PM|#

She's a vast improvement over carpet humping guy.

The parade of dorks after you click is a bit disappointing though. What is the gesture the guy on the right is making supposed to convey?

"My hand smells. Come here."

Franklin Harris|10.12.07 @ 11:42PM|#

I'm using Firefox with Adblock, and I had to remove Google ad syndication from my block list to see what all of you poor bastards are going on about.

|10.12.07 @ 11:47PM|#

Paul is already breathing down McCain's neck.

Current odds on the Republican nomination by people actually placing money on it:

Betfair: Paul 13.5/1 McCain 21/1
InTrade: Paul 12.8/1 McCain 17.2/1

bhh: that Mary Katherine Hamm may be a dork, but I think she's prettier than the models the site uses. Still, VFT about this ad vs carpet humper. Smelly hand guy is a small price to pay.

iih|10.12.07 @ 11:51PM|#

prolefeed:

Perhaps they should have the same chick wear a shirt saying "libertarian"? Or "I survived Kelo v. New London"?

That ain't gonna happen, these modern-day GOP "conservatives" don't care much about libertarianism.

|10.13.07 @ 12:00AM|#

iih, someone's doing it.

iih|10.13.07 @ 12:09AM|#

BakedPenguin:

"someone" except GOP-type "conservatives". Yeah, I have been to metacafe. Good stuff.

iih|10.13.07 @ 12:13AM|#

BakedPenguin: All these products are intelligent, whereas, the ones above...

|10.13.07 @ 12:28AM|#

iih - yeah, the only shirts I liked on the Conservative site were the anti-Che ones, and a couple of the gun ones.

wayaway|10.13.07 @ 2:20AM|#

I'm aware there are many ways to see hot girls on the Internet (at least that's the rumor), but am I seriously the only one not getting this ad?

I'm not getting the ad either, but I'm in Australia, so assumed that was the reason. Guess not.

|10.13.07 @ 6:17AM|#

http://texasswimming.blogspot.com/2007/10/what-turd.html

|10.13.07 @ 8:58AM|#

iih,

The latest polls have Ogo down 9 points with only 1% undecided.

The 5th District is the Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill/Methuen district - northwest of Boston from about 495 to the New Hampshire border. Paul Tsongas used to hold the seat. He is known as St. Paul in Lowell, and the concert hall/hockey arena is named after him.

It's a conservative district, for Massachusetts. It voted for Romney, and the local birdcage liner keeps calling people who oppose the war "traitors."

Conservative tee-shirt girl mike like Ogonowski. He's a farmer and a military officer, and a bit of a slow-wit.

VM|10.13.07 @ 9:28AM|#

did anybody see Ann Coulter on Donnie Deutsch?

hier

ADL response

ny times blog

|10.13.07 @ 9:42AM|#

VM - Wow.

I once went out with a (nonpracticing) Jewish girl once who was friends with an evangelical Christian. Her friend was always trying to convert her. I know that's pretty common among those churches, but I definitely got the feeling they would have given her bonus points for bagging a Jew (as opposed to an athiest, other flavor of Christian, etc).

VM|10.13.07 @ 9:49AM|#

Baked -

*shudder*

those taint guards did the trick!! wow!!! :)

|10.13.07 @ 11:11AM|#

J sub D -- you're assuming she's conservative because she's getting paid to wear a shirt saying conservative. That's like assuming the women modeling women's clothes in glossy catalogs are female, when quite a few are shemales.

prolefeed - If you don't mind sharing, how exactly did you become aware of this? ;-)

|10.13.07 @ 11:17AM|#

|10.13.07 @ 11:22AM|#

VM - They may have deflected Urkobold's taint withering powers unto Sabathia. He wasn't looking so good.

VM|10.13.07 @ 11:29AM|#

he was treated like a 14 year old boy at a boot camp!

|10.13.07 @ 11:34AM|#

J sub D - he must be a Photoshop artist paid to airbrush moose knuckles off of panties.

|10.13.07 @ 11:36AM|#

VM - ooh. That was wrong. Funny, but wrong.

|10.13.07 @ 11:40AM|#

J sub D - he must be a Photoshop artist paid to airbrush moose knuckles off of panties.

Hmmm, possible. There exists other possible, even more likely, explanations as well though.

|10.13.07 @ 11:44AM|#

J sub D - Yeah. I didn't want to go into that scarier territory, though.

|10.13.07 @ 11:47AM|#

Baked Penguin - That's fair, prolefeed isn't here to defend himself, anyway.

Fluffy|10.13.07 @ 12:09PM|#

The thing about the boot camp case that really shocked me was the basis for the defense claims.

Their defense was that it's standard procedure to beat the shit out of kids that refuse to exercise, so the guards didn't do anything wrong.

This defense worked, because apparently if you refuse to exercise as a boot camp kid in Florida it's legal for the guards to torture you until you do exercise. Why not just use cattle prods and horsewhips? Why not just let the guards tie the kids to posts and flog them until they say, "I like to exercise, and my name is fucking Toby"?

Please sink into the sea, Florida. I promise to double my production of greenhouse gases to speed along the day when Florida sinks into the fucking sea.

Michael|10.13.07 @ 12:21PM|#

Eight former boot-camp workers were acquitted of manslaughter Friday in the death of a 14-year-old boy who was videotaped being punched and kicked. More here.

How long are we going to stand for this?

Kids need discipline. Judging by the looks of the protestors, the youngin was no big loss.

iih|10.13.07 @ 12:29PM|#

joe, do they tend to have lower income levels in the 5th? That was my impression from unrelated mentioning of towns like Methuen. Tingsborough looks very well off.

Fluffy|10.13.07 @ 12:32PM|#

Methuen - and the rest of the valley, really - is funny.

These towns all used to be tough little blue collar towns, but the housing boom brought in a lot of new people as the Boston commuter suburbs pushed their way up I-93.

iih|10.13.07 @ 12:37PM|#

Michael

Kids need discipline. Judging by the looks of the protestors, the youngin was no big loss.

What the hell!?! You may want to listen to this.

Regarding the Florida case, there seems to be some racial dimension to this case. NPR on October 12.

iih|10.13.07 @ 12:38PM|#

Something was wrong with the second link: Here it is again.

|10.13.07 @ 12:50PM|#

Kids need discipline. Judging by the looks of the protestors, the youngin was no big loss.

Michael -

Martin Lee Anderson was sent to the boot camp for joyriding in his grandmother's car. For that, he's dead. 14 years old, his life ended.

You comment reveals that you lack compassion and reasoning ability. BTW, I can cuss with the best of 'em, but I decided you are not worth the effort.

VM|10.13.07 @ 1:05PM|#

J sub D:

michael probably is juanita hier...: in other words, you're 100% correct that [s]he is not worth the effort!

|10.13.07 @ 1:13PM|#

I didn't get to see the t shirt girl, but then I am in Egypt

BTW Eid Mubarak gahaab

|10.13.07 @ 1:24PM|#

This is a lame(?) attempt to tie the boot camp post to the Friday Political Thread.

Michael|10.13.07 @ 1:26PM|#

Martin Lee Anderson was sent to the boot camp for joyriding in his grandmother's car. For that, he's dead. 14 years old, his life ended.

You comment reveals that you lack compassion and reasoning ability. BTW, I can cuss with the best of 'em, but I decided you are not worth the effort.

Good, then you'll be shutting up.

|10.13.07 @ 1:29PM|#

kwais - I get the Eid Mubarak, but a big HUH? on gahaab. A little help please.

Also about the boot camp thingies, I read somewhere that they are statistically no more likely to rehab a kid than prison. Which would be a very sad statement really.

There has to be another way.

I personally would like to see prisons abolished.

|10.13.07 @ 1:32PM|#

I personally would like to see prisons abolished.

I can't agree with you on that one. However, I would like to see many of the prisoners released.

J sub D
Gahba = bitch
Gahaab = bitches

thus: happy eid bitches
(I am not sure if marrying up Dave Chapelle with arabic works though)

VM|10.13.07 @ 1:33PM|#

Ayn Rand discussion on C span 2 "book tv" this weekend. Tibor Macahn (?sp?) is speaking right now!

now, now, juanita ("michael") temper temper!

vm|10.13.07 @ 1:33PM|#

doh!

|10.13.07 @ 1:34PM|#

kwais, well this bitch will take it in the spirit intended. ;-)

|10.13.07 @ 1:36PM|#

JsD
I think that prisons don't address the problem, and I am not sure they perform their function of discouraging crime or keeping society safer.

I would like to see alternate punishments for the petty crimes.

Maybe some sort of alternate type of prison for those that have committed heinous crimes, like murder, but that can be rehabilitated.

|10.13.07 @ 1:40PM|#

VM, If the Swedes had given Brian Lamb a Nobel Peace Prize, I'd have applauded. C-SPAN, without government funding, kicks ass!

|10.13.07 @ 1:45PM|#

I would like to see alternate punishments for the petty crimes.

Concur.

Maybe some sort of alternate type of prison for those that have committed heinous crimes, like murder, but that can be rehabilitated.

But society must be protected from those who commit heinous crimes. Rehabilitation should always be a goal, but I remain wary about success rates with adults. Many are sociopathic and beyond our help. Ugly facts must be faced.

|10.13.07 @ 1:57PM|#

I concur,

but I go further, I think some people have shown such a disrespect for the rights of others that they should never be allowed back into society.

Such as certain rapists, a certain kind of murderer, true pedophiles.

I don't think the butt rape institutions we have now are the right place for these folks, and I certainly don't think that they should mingle with other offenders.

For some of these people I see the death penalty, for others I see something else, not sure yet, maybe something like that prison in Bolivia that is a town with markets and such.

|10.13.07 @ 1:58PM|#

J sub D -- you're assuming she's conservative because she's getting paid to wear a shirt saying conservative. That's like assuming the women modeling women's clothes in glossy catalogs are female, when quite a few are shemales.

prolefeed - If you don't mind sharing, how exactly did you become aware of this? ;-)

J sub D -- read about it. My life isn't interesting enough that I'm dating and undressing so many (or any) models that I could have met a few of the trannies.

You could also simply look at the pictures, and note that quite a few of them are a bit more masculine than your average female.

Suppose the advertisers are going after the heavily closeted and in denial Larry Craig crowd with the tranny models.

Fluffy|10.13.07 @ 1:58PM|#

Hey, I don't have a problem with the existence of prisons.

But the use of violence by guards should be limited to that necessary to maintain order and the safety of guards and prisoners. There is absolutely no room in a civilized society for prison rules that allow for the brutalization of prisoners that don't want to do calisthenics.

Frankly, not only should all of these guards be in prison, but so should any guard who administered a non-fatal beating for a similar cause. And the entire chain of command that allows such a policy to be in place should be right there with them.

|10.13.07 @ 2:06PM|#

So, what does everyone make of General Sanchez coming out against the Iraq War?

|10.13.07 @ 2:19PM|#

Ron Paul's surge in the campaign is already starting to force the anti-Paul forces to fight back with ads like this one.

The battle is joined, victory cannot be far off.

|10.13.07 @ 2:22PM|#

Around here, he's pretty much preaching to choir. But it's sure to harm some of the pro-war candidates with the general electorate. Along those lines, this was in the NYT today. Believe it or not, I think it demonstates a good thing about America.

|10.13.07 @ 2:24PM|#

But J Sub D, hes still not GENERAL "DEMIGOD" PATREUS!!!!!!11one1

|10.13.07 @ 2:26PM|#

Oh, and Eric Dondero has been found. I wonder if he'll be back on here again telling us how Sanchez=Neville Chamberlain.

|10.13.07 @ 2:34PM|#

Cesar, Realistically, a retired military officer has a lot more freedom to criticize the governments strategies and competence than an active duty guy. There are good reasons for this, among them civilian control of the military. Douglas MacArthur deserved to be relieved of command. Senior officers are in a difficult situation when the Oval Office is making stupid, unrealistic assumptions in the conduct of a war.

|10.13.07 @ 2:36PM|#

Oh, and Eric Dondero has been found.

That's a good thing, isn't it? We require both right and left threaded wingnuts for comic relief.

|10.13.07 @ 2:47PM|#

I understand that, I wouldn't really want active military people criticizing things publicly either. But I wish one side wouldn't deify the man that is merely carrying out their policy.

The right-wing calp trap about how "General "PATREUS! is the best thing ever, he can do anything, he will, single handedly save us, hes the next Jesus, and if you criticize him you hate the troops!!!!" thing gets old real fast.

|10.13.07 @ 2:53PM|#

The right-wing calp trap about how "General "PATREUS! is the best thing ever, he can do anything, he will, single handedly save us, hes the next Jesus, and if you criticize him you hate the troops!!!!" thing gets old real fast.

I comiserate with you. Goddam PC speech codes from the right. I piss on PC, from wherever it originates.

|10.13.07 @ 3:14PM|#

prolefeed -

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world
Except for Lola...

iih|10.13.07 @ 3:34PM|#

kwais:

(I am not sure if marrying up Dave Chapelle with arabic works though)

It does not work. I have absolutely no idea what you just or what "gahab" is!

Where in Egypt now?

|10.13.07 @ 4:05PM|#

So, what does everyone make of General Sanchez coming out against the Iraq War?

He gets labelled "Dirty" Sanchez by the World Net Daily / Coulteresque portion of the Net / blogosphere in 5... 4... 3...

|10.13.07 @ 5:24PM|#

Thanks Crimethink! Good interview.

|10.13.07 @ 6:52PM|#

Cesar, Realistically, a retired military officer has a lot more freedom to criticize the governments strategies and competence than an active duty guy.

Which is why it is so bogus for the war supporters to point at the statements of active-duty officers in support of the mission or strategy to back up their politics.

|10.13.07 @ 7:08PM|#

Which is why it is so bogus for the war supporters to point at the statements of active-duty officers in support of the mission or strategy to back up their politics.

A'fucking men.

iih,

There are a lot of blue collar "Reagan Democrats" in the 5th.

|10.13.07 @ 7:09PM|#

The day Massachusetts ceases to have an all-Democratic congressional delegation is the day I shave my head.

|10.13.07 @ 7:48PM|#

iih,

gahba is an Iraqi term, it means, loosely translated 'bitch'

I don't know the Egyptian term yet.

I am in Al Cahira

|10.13.07 @ 7:49PM|#

Mohandeseen to be exact.

|10.13.07 @ 8:28PM|#

Which band is that posted on this thread. Pol and Prog?

|10.13.07 @ 8:34PM|#

BushLeaguer - Aphrodite's Child. The guy on keyboards is Vangelis, whom you might remember from his "Chariots of Fire" theme.

iih|10.13.07 @ 8:58PM|#

Mohandeseen to be exact.

Oh man, I am truly jealous! Probably having some shisha! How was Ramadan there. Crowded and heavy sunset travel, that I know! I miss that place.

iih|10.13.07 @ 9:04PM|#

joe, fluffy, have you guys ever listened to 96.9? Are these people serious? Are there people who really think they are the "best and brightest" and would blindly follow Severin et al.? I am pretty amazed at some of their propositions. What is more preposterous is Severin's claim that he's libertarian. But I found this website debunking these claims (as if I needed a website to tell me that!).

iih|10.13.07 @ 9:10PM|#

But apparently the link I provided are also "pro-truthers". But they do excellent job criticizing Severin.

Fluffy|10.13.07 @ 10:51PM|#

Severin is a lot like Limbaugh in that he found the conventions of libertarian rhetoric to be useful when a Democrat occupied the White House, but gradually betrayed just about every libertarian principle once a Republican got there.

The important thing to the talk radio guys for the last 6 years has been to serve Bush. Whatever has to be said to do that, will be said.

iih|10.14.07 @ 12:03AM|#

Fluffy:

He usually self-contradicts himself on principles in the same segment. Like in one sentence he could say "I am a constitutionalist..." in arguing for why he's a libertarian (and he "admires" Ron Paul) and within minutes would be proposing skipping the constitution when it comes to terrorism (and how he may hate RP for not doing so). Very twisted. I should break the habit of switching to 96.9 (out of sheer entertainment --I guess that is their goal really). My blood pressure increases whenever I listen to these fools. But NPR is often too boring. Is there any libertarian leaning channel either on FM or satellite radio (probably not!).

Thomas Paine\'s Goiter|10.14.07 @ 12:37AM|#

I know this isn't a political topic, but looking back over the items this week, Radley, Kerry, David and Jesse put out some of their best work ever.

It really has been an amazing week to read here. Good work guys, and thanks.

iih|10.14.07 @ 12:59AM|#

Everyone watching the baseball game or what? Go Sox!

|10.14.07 @ 7:20AM|#

iih,

Actually right at sunset was the only time day or night that the streets were mostly clear, with a few cars hauling ass to get home for iftar.

I went to a night club last night, it was mostly normal, but there were a few women wearing hijab on the dance floor. That was the oddest thing in the world to me.

one of the girls wearing hijab had some tight clothes on and she had a great body.

|10.14.07 @ 7:22AM|#

and no i am not watching the baseball game, baseball is a boring game played by steroid users and communists like fidel castro

tired of the ESPN redsox nuthu|10.14.07 @ 10:25AM|#

fuck the sox.

iih|10.14.07 @ 10:35AM|#

I went to a night club last night, it was mostly normal, but there were a few women wearing hijab on the dance floor. That was the oddest thing in the world to me.

I wonder what Hersi Ali has got to say about that ;-)

|10.14.07 @ 11:09AM|#

iih,

Talk radio is where Massachusetts Republicans flee to get away from Massachusetts.

Sort of like New Hampshire, except you can get it in your car.

|10.14.07 @ 11:19AM|#

Stupid Gagne.

You know who they should have brought in to pitch that inning?

Kason Gabbard!

iih|10.14.07 @ 11:26AM|#

joe,

I could see that you have watched the game :-( It looks like it is going to be a long series.

|10.14.07 @ 11:34AM|#

Buck up. Once they get past Sabbathia and Carmona, the advantage tips heavily to the Red Sox.

|10.14.07 @ 12:17PM|#

I was completely uniterested in the ALCS. Then I found out joe and iih were Bosox fans. Go Tribe! ;-)

|10.14.07 @ 12:27PM|#

I offer the Falling Sand Game to H&R enthusiasts to help pass the time this Sunday. Enjoy.

|10.14.07 @ 12:28PM|#

*no credit for creation of said game meant to be implied.

|10.14.07 @ 12:33PM|#

Jim Bob - Way cool! Merci, Danke schön, Salamat.

iih|10.14.07 @ 12:38PM|#

I was completely uniterested in the ALCS. Then I found out joe and iih were Bosox fans. Go Tribe! ;-)

When it comes to sports, it is pretty much all tribalism to me. I am just rooting for my newly found tribe.

iih|10.14.07 @ 12:45PM|#

Just came across this excellent Ron Paul interview on foreign policy. May invigorate this very "interesting" weekend thread.

|10.14.07 @ 12:47PM|#

J sub D,

Thanks. It really is (for me, anyway) an effective way to pass an hour or two, and sort of relaxing to boot.

When it comes to sports, it is pretty much all tribalism to me.

So true!

|10.14.07 @ 12:48PM|#

Thanks. It really is (for me, anyway) an effective way to pass an hour or two, and sort of relaxing to boot.

Zen via the inter-tubes, or something like that.

iih|10.14.07 @ 12:59PM|#

I am listening to the RP interview. I think he's is soooo right, if only people would stop and think. But fixing it ain't going to be practically easy.

|10.14.07 @ 1:37PM|#

CNN had a very charitable piece on Ron Paul this morning, calling him a contender, pointing out facts, showing his supporters and didn't have any other candidates' BS. Ron is catching on to mainstream.

John Rhoads|10.14.07 @ 3:50PM|#

It doesn't really matter who wins the ALCS...no one can beat the Rockies...I'd be surprised if they lose more than 2 games the rest of the postseason.

iih|10.14.07 @ 4:37PM|#

Very funny video: The Neo-Con Answer to Everything (go all the way down at the bottom of the page)

|10.14.07 @ 4:38PM|#

"BOISE, Idaho - Sen. Larry Craig was named Saturday night to the Idaho Hall of Fame, marking the Republican lawmaker's first ceremonial appearance back in his home state since his arrest in an airport bathroom sex sting became public in August."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071014/craig-hall-of-fame/

A Yalie|10.14.07 @ 4:55PM|#

Ron Paul MIGHT be a protest vehicle for "the less-government libertarian wing"? Are they serious? Do they really think Ron Paul is just a bunch of conspiracy theory nut jobs? WHY ISN'T KENT SNYDER DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?!

Bob|10.14.07 @ 11:04PM|#

A Republican is running in a heavily-Democratic district, one that has probably not elected a Republican in years and you try to claim his defeat would owe no small amount to advocating against illegal immigration? Give me a fucking break. Another breathtaking example of the nonsense put forth by the idiots at Reason.

|10.15.07 @ 12:12AM|#

No "Bob"

If a Republican wishes to attract voters who would otherwise vote Democrat by making an issue the centerpiece of their campaign, they have a wide choice of issues to chose from. Many Republicans have settled on immigration as a "wedge" issue, much like they settled on "gay marriage" as the "wedge" issue in the last Federal election cycle.

If what-his-name's bid fails, it will be yet another data point showing that screaming about immigration is not going to get people to abandon the Democrats.

Of course, this wouldn't surprise me. Why should people vote for the socialist tax and spenders in the Republican party when they can vote for Democrats and get tax and spenders who will stay out of their bedrooms?

|10.15.07 @ 10:25AM|#

Bob,

The fact that Ogonowski is within 9 points of Tsongas should indicate that this isn't San Francisco.

Another angle on the immigration issue and partian politics: there's a pretty good population of Southeast Asian Republicans up here. Lots of Romney signs in the windowns of take-out joints during the last election for governor. There are a lot of entrepreneurs in that communnity - you should see how many neighborhood business districts they're revitalized - and some of them are loyal to the Republicans as the most anti-communist party. One place I go to is owned by a former officer in the South Vietnamese Army.

Will anti-immigrant politics hurt the Republicans among these voters?

|10.15.07 @ 11:56AM|#

"Will Al Gore Run for President? No, Al Gore won't run for president."

Dick Morris has an article at Newsmax.com saying that Al Gore can beat Hillary and that he will run. He believes Al Gore is on a mission to save the planet and what better position to do that than as president of the US?

|10.15.07 @ 5:12PM|#

I was busy this weekend, but Conservative Girl is still on the site. I previously suspected that she's not as conservative as the shirts would indicate, but I've almost changed my mind. After all, She doesn't have any noticeable tattoos or piercings (although they could be hidden, if well-placed). Also, It's easy to imagine that she's looking for a hubby with lots of money...

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