Administration Blows Its Credibility With Disastrous Obamacare Rollout

Obamacare's troubled launch proves the administration is both incompetent and untrustworthy.

Whitehouse.govWhitehouse.govThe Obama administration doesn’t want to talk about Obamacare. At a press briefing on Tuesday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney dodged questions about the ongoing failure of the law’s federally-run health insurance portal, Healthcare.gov, which after two weeks is still practically impenetrable to all but the most dedicated users. Carney refused to say when the exchange might be working, and directed reporters' questions to the agencies in charge of the project. “Those are all questions for HHS and CMS,” he said, referring to the Department of Health and Human Services and the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

But the head of HHS isn’t saying much. Following a disastrous interview with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show last week, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has avoided most media inquiries. The head of CMS, Marylyn Tavenner, is staying mum too. She refused to answer questions New York Times reporters posed about the performance of the exchanges.

That’s hardly a shock. What could either of them say? The federal exchange system simply does not work. And the administration has run out of excuses. Even President Obama—who initially excused the exchange problems as being typical of a large technology rollout—has begun to talk more frankly about the system’s flaws. "The website that was supposed to do this all in a seamless way has had way more glitches than I think are acceptable," he said on Tuesday.

It is clear now that, despite occasional suggestions of light at the end of the tunnel, the administration does not know how long the exchange problems will take to fix. At this point, then, it is necessary to at least consider the possibility that the federal exchanges, and perhaps a few of the state-run counterparts as well, are simply not going to work, at least not in the relatively short time the administration has to get the system on track.

Given how little information is available to outsiders, it’s hard to judge with great certainty. It is of course possible that the problems could be resolved in a few days or a few weeks. But the administration’s obfuscations, as well the repeated assurances both before and after the opening of the exchanges that they had everything under control, don't inspire confidence that meaningful fixes are on the way. Already there are signals that the exchange problems could be deep and long-lasting.

Initially, the administration pinned problems with an unexpected amount of traffic. “These bugs were functions of volume," White House technology adviser Todd Park told USA Today.  “Take away the volume and it works.”

That excuse no longer holds up. The volume’s gone, and the website still doesn’t work. Web traffic to HealthCare.gov dropped 88 percent from October 1, the day the exchanges opened, to October 13, according to data released this week by Kantar US Insights. Yet despite plummeting traffic, many users remained unable to even create the accounts necessary to begin the application process.

The insurance industry is sounding the alarm too. Cigna has told brokers in the four federal exchange states it’s selling policies not to even attempt to sell subsidized insurance before next month. There are multiple reports of serious problems with the industry end of the exchange tech, with the system relaying multiple enrollment and unenrollment notices for the same individual—and without the timestamps that might help insurers understand which action was the user's final one.

Insurance consultant Robert Laszewski, who has been working with health plans selling insurance on the exchanges, told The Washington Post this week that he wouldn’t even bother using the federal exchange system himself, and would advise others to avoid it. “People are just wasting their time,” he said, adding that fixes haven't been forthcoming. “There’s no evidence of any improvement so far.”

The CEO of Aetna, meanwhile, told CNBC that testing of the system has been done on the fly, and that health insurers—who are connected directly to the exchange systems—didn’t get the code to connect their systems until a month before the exchanges opened. He predicted that it could be three years until all the problems are solved.

Three years! The administration already had three years to build the system. They failed—in part because they dragged their feet on the process to begin with. Deadlines for key regulations—rules that were essential to creation and design of the exchange—were consistently late. As early as the summer of 2010, HHS had already missed multiple implementation deadlines. Warnings about regulatory holdups persisted through November 2012 as the administration delayed the release of yet more rules required to keep the exchange process on track.

Delay after delay piled up. And the system’s most technologically challenging component sat not just unfinished but essentially unstarted for more than a year after the contract to build it was awarded. CGI Federal was awarded a $94 million  contract to build the data hub and back end of the federal exchanges in December of 2011, but did not even begin to write code until spring of 2013, according to The New York Times.

Frustrated, anxious health insurers knew it was a mess. So did federal officials. “Confidential progress reports from the Health and Human Services Department show that senior officials repeatedly expressed doubts that the computer systems for the federal exchange would be ready on time,” according to the Times.

But rather than admit their problems, the administration offered confident spin. “States and the federal government will be ready in 10 months,” Gary Cohen, the federal official overseeing implementation of Obamacare’s exchanges said at the end of 2012. The exchanges “will be ready,” he promised members of Congress again a month later in response to skeptical questioning.

Those promises continued throughout the summer. In July, HHS Secretary Sebelius offered yet another assurance that all was well. “We are on track to flip the switch on October 1st and say to people come on and sign up.” In August, she did it again. “In every state in the country, regardless of what you hear, in every state in the country, there will be a new health marketplace open for business on October 1. There will be online availability that now is up and running.” 

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  • fish_remote||

    God Sebelius is hard to look at......you could split firewood with that face!

  • anon||

    Definitely kills any chub I might've had from looking at slutty halloween costumes.

  • Almanian!||

    As previously noted, I'd hit it.

    /monster, I know.

  • Raston Bot||

    she looks like a Silent Hill extra.

  • fish_remote||

    As previously noted, I'd hit it.

    Monster.....? Hardly! Intrepid explorer of the bizzarre and obscene...without a doubt!

    My suggestion to you...wear a fencing mask!

    Good day sir!

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    Dress up in a suit and Rand Paul mask and the kinky sex possibilities are endless.

    "CUT THE EXCHANGES!"
    "NEVER!"
    *WHIPCRACK"
    "OBEY ME!"
    "I ONLY FOLLOW BARACK!"
    *SMACK*

  • Marc F Cheney||

    She doesn't appear to have enough moisture for that.

  • Yancey Ward||

    Hit it with what?

  • Killazontherun||

    Never really noticed her looks. Have you notice the competition? She is practically a ten in this administration. Well, Susan Rice is kind of cute, but definitely an exception.

  • fish||

    Don't know.....that new Fed chairsatan is pretty hot!

  • altster76||

    Well... maybe in a lineup with Janet Reno and Madeleine Albright.

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    CGI Federal was awarded a $94 million contract to build the data hub and back end of the federal exchanges in December of 2011, but did not even begin to write code until spring of 2013

    Oh, this just gets better and better.

  • Brett L||

    In their defense, I don't think they got specs until then.

  • Brett L||

    To expand, I've heard that rule-makers and regulators were explicitly told not to issue any rules or regs on Obamacare and exchanges until after the 2012 elections. Thus no specifications could be made, thus they talked about look and feel until early 2013.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    This ought to be national fucking news. We have all this talk about the Teabaggers being seditious when the administration is willing to hamstring their own programs just to prevent any information from being available to the public prior to the elections.

  • ||

    This is only possible for the administration because the media is actively abetting this. A hostile media could and would destroy Obama, but instead we have the opposite. They are as complicit in this shit as he is. It's disgusting; like the biggest scam ever devised.

  • Brett L||

    OT: But you might like this.

    American director and producer Michael Bay was injured on Thursday in an attack in Hong Kong during filming for his latest Transformers movie.

  • ||

    Ohhh, juicy. Since no one on set would comment to the police, you know there's more here than meets the eye.

  • db||

    You certainly have a flare for puns.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    This is only possible for the administration because the media is actively abetting this. A hostile media could and would destroy Obama, but instead we have the opposite. They are as complicit in this shit as he is.

    Bingo.

    I maintain that the one thing worse than state run media, is a media that willingly fawns over it and provides cover for whatever the state does of its own volition.

  • Brett L||

    Whoops, Suderman has that in the roundup:

    early as the summer of 2010, HHS had already missed multiple implementation deadlines. Warnings about regulatory holdups persisted through November 2012 as the administration delayed the release of yet more rules required to keep the exchange process on track.

    With a link.

  • Brett L||

    Also the NYT link from 10/13/13 contains the same information. So it is being reported. Although the NYT (obviously) softballs it as just one of many problems.

    Politics made things worse. To avoid giving ammunition to Republicans opposed to the project, the administration put off issuing several major rules until after last November’s elections. The Republican-controlled House blocked funds. More than 30 states refused to set up their own exchanges, requiring the federal government to vastly expand its project in unexpected ways

    But really those evil states didn't jump at the chance to be part of the clusterfuck and the Republicans sabotaged it.

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    But if the states had done their part and built their own exchanges, this would never have happened.

  • some guy||

    That's the best excuse ever. Give the states an out and then blame them for taking it.

    As a side note, how are the state exchanges turning out? I'm in a Federal exchange state (thankfully?).

  • mad libertarian guy||

    I haven't checked, but word is the KY exchange is being held up as a model.

  • Brett L||

    the KY exchange is being held up as a model.

    The lube makes it hurt less?

  • Sevo||

    "the administration is willing to hamstring their own programs just to prevent any information from being available to the public prior to the elections."

    Not the half of it; this admin will gladly sacrifice the lives of embassy personnel in the hopes of getting a couple of more votes.

  • sarcasmic||

    Sad thing is, I bet those developers got paid for those two full years of sitting on their asses and waiting for those specs. That's what I'm doing. I'm sitting here on my ass waiting for a government committee to approve the next batch of bugs for the next version of some piece of software used by the government and contractors. It sucks, but in this economy a paycheck is a paycheck.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    My thoughts exactly. A lot of gameware was "tested" during those two years.

  • some guy||

    If they didn't get the specs until then, then what the fuck were they bidding on in the first place?

  • mad libertarian guy||

    If they didn't get the specs until then, then what the fuck were they bidding on in the first place?

    To make the process appear legitimate?

  • AAC||

    Did they even bid?

  • Sevo||

    "Did they even bid?"
    This is my question. I live in the Bay Area and have various contacts in tech. Never heard a word about a bid process.
    'Course I never hear about it when the lying piece of shit in the WH passes off dough to his contributors, re: Solyndra.

  • fish_remote||

    Oh, this just gets better and better.

    CGI CEO is a big Obama supporter.....I'm sure that there's nothing untoward going on though.

    ps: CHRISTFAGSECULARISTFUCKTOOTH

  • ||

    Well, of course. Did you expect anything else? Did you expect this to be different from, say, Solyndra? It's the way this administration operates. Every fucking time.

  • fish_remote||

    What is this "Solyndra" of which you speak?

    (ducks and sprints from the room)

  • John C. Randolph||

    The same contractor apparently got canned for botching a job in Canada.

    -jcr

  • RG||

    Yes it does, Reuters is reporting that while the contract was for $94 mil, it has since spiraled to nearly $300 mil.

    http://www.reuters.com/article.....5Q20131017

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    So it's a standard government contract

  • Sevo||

    "So it's a standard government contract"
    And getting ever more so with the delays.

  • Zoobs||

    Hawaii paid CGI almost as much to cover 300,000 people and they just got their site up and running.

  • John||

    Here is a good guess. If they had any information that could be possibly spun to show that the exchanges are going to work, they would be all over the media telling the world about it. So, since they are saying nothing, the rational conclusion is that they have no idea how to make these things works and there is no reason to believe that they will ever work.

  • anon||

    But that's being rational, John. You gotta think with your feelings, man.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    That's what I keep screwing up!

  • DontShootMe||

    screwing!? up!? rapist.

  • Libertarius||

    If ye have faith in central planning as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto reality: grant me free healthcare, and it shall be granted, and no bounty of free shit shall be unpossible unto you (except if the Koch Bros. and the Tea Party anarchists derail the gravy train).

  • Ratch||

    LMFAO !!!!

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    I wouldn't expect anyone in the administration to understand the actual coding problems. And the federal contractors have failed so completely that it might actually be a good idea to develop a complete replacement, except that not even the world's greatest programming company could generate a fully functional system of this complexity in the few weeks they have before the penaltax kicks in. They. Are. Fucked. And. So. Are. We.

  • John||

    The contractor is a bunch of politically connected cronies. So those guys are never going to get fired. Also, they don't want people to be able to just go in and get a quote easily because they are worried about it getting out how expensive these things are. So they mandated that you don't get a quote until you put in all of your information and it has been verified. So this causes everyone who is on the website to put in a ton of information and that bottle necks the system. The way you are supposed to do this stuff is to ask for a bare minimum of information upfront, give the quote and then later when the person has decided to do it, collect all of the detailed information. Doing it the way they did it, means every person gives them a ton of information not just those ready to buy. That makes running the site a lot harder than it should be.

    So, they won't fire the idiots who botched the job and they won't give up on hiding the costs which made the site well neigh impossible to make work anyway.

    So yeah, they are fucked. The sites are never going to be up and running.

  • sarcasmic||

    What are you talking about? This is government. They need all the information upfront because there are so many little perks and exceptions that they need all the information to come up with a ballpark estimate.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    Libertarian Sabotage?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE

    This doesn't help the arguement for single payer. You could die of gangrene trying to get the 'Find Doc' feature to work.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Yeah, those who are hoping this would be a step to single payer, they might be in for a shock. I think this is going to be such a clusterfuck it will serve as an argument to get government less involved in healthcare.

  • ||

    That is a good point. I think the website issues are the least of the law's problems, but it does highlight the general incompetence of the government when it comes to efficiency and user friendliness.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    It shows the failure of the Free Market because it relies on insurance companies and corporate government contractors. Obama didn't have the political strength to pass single payer and get the profit of medical care, so he was forced to pass this right-wing free-market-extremist bill.

    I hope you libtards are happy at what you've wrought!

    /Actual argument I predict us hearing in the future

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I have no doubt that that will be the mental gymnastics the left will perform. Somehow, no matter how awful it is, the free market will be the cause.

    Someone posted a quote the other day which I will paraphrase because I can neither remember the author nor the actual quote:

    No matter how overbearing and controlling the state becomes, any problems that arise will be blamed on the however small amount of freedom the people still posses.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Exactly, and no one will notice that Obamacare is just the free market wrapped in government control.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    Mussolini would be rolling in his grave. Of joy.

  • CatoTheElder||

    If people were rational, it would serve as an argument for less government involvement.

    But the argument doesn't work in practice. Government already accounted for well over half of health care spending before ObamaCare via Medicare, VA, Medicaid, and insurance schemes for federal employees and dependents. That plus IRS incentives for employers to offer HMO and other 3rd party payment schemes as part of compensation of private employees completely distorted the market for health care goods and services. (One should never forget that the much-hated HMO was a Democrat favorite.) These distortions priced many out of the market entirely.

    So what did people clamor for? More government to fix the health care market that government programs and tax policies had distorted. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid responded to their clamor with ACA. When ACA fails, history suggests that the people will clamor for single payer, not less government.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    see above

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    People can't act rationally if they live in economic ignorance

  • Ranter||

    Wait, wasn't there a cool, trendy video put out by the healthcare cheerleaders in Portland that had guitars and fun sets and all that shit, and it specifically TOLD us that everything was going to be OK.

    I *remember* it.

    So it just mystifies me that all that fairydust and promises didn't pan out. Oh well.

    I'm sure once they get things fixed and people can sign up for subsidized health, there's nothing but smooth sailing and good vibes ahead.

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    Marketing uber alles.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Kill it. Kill it with fire.

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    RACIST

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    No, he's clearly an eco-terrorist

  • Jackand Ace||

    They may have. We will see.

    But I wonder if you also think that whoever said this may also have blown their credibility?

    "He (Ted Cruz) was playing his part in a pretty goddamned brilliant strategy to win the future not for himself but for the Republican Party...."

    Brilliant strategy? Winning the future? Hmmmm.

  • John||

    Yeah, because doing a symbolic filibuster to stop funding for a law that a large portion of the country totally hates is just like completely fucking up the biggest entitlement roll out since the 1960s. It is totally the same. In a few weeks, people will still be talking about the shutdown. But Obamacare being a disaster will be totally forgotten.

  • From the Tundra||

    Hmmm. They sure are spending a lot of energy on a vanquished foe. It doesn't matter what happened last night. This is the first entitlement program that is gonna bite literally everyone in the ass. The biggies in the past were largely hidden (unless you are a small biz owner). No way to hide this one.

  • John||

    Exactly. Who knows what will happen. But I suspect it will be big not what anyone expects. People as going to be pissed

  • Faceless Commenter||

    In a few weeks, people will still be talking about the shutdown. But Obamacare being a disaster will be totally forgotten.
    --------------

    Wha? How? The disaster of Obamacare only burgeons every day. There's gonna be no ignoring it, especially when the 4:45 p.m. Friday announcement is released that website is going down for the foreseeable future and the individual mandate is being delayed for a year and please do not refer all questions to Kathleen Sebelius, who has resigned to spend more time with her family.

  • XM||

    He's being sarcastic.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Oh. Kmfp.

  • Neoliberal Kochtopus||

    The Brilliant Strategy is that in no way can anyone honestly associate the Republicans with any problems with the health care law.

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    Well, then they'll have to dishonestly associate the Republicans with the health care law. Fortunately, mendacity is one of the few talents possessed by politicians.

  • Neoliberal Kochtopus||

    Man, you would really, really have to have some brass balls to do that. I mean, that argument ends with, "Republicans Shut Down the Government They Hated it So Badly".

  • Brett L||

    See, it would have worked if only the Republicans hadn't sabotaged it. The Dems just need a supermajority!

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    Brass balls, or a near messianic belief in the power of tribal politics.

  • John Thacker||

    The dishonest argument will start with:

    "The Exchanges would have worked perfectly on Oct. 1 if the Republicans hadn't shutdown the government."

    Plenty of low information voters will believe that even without being told that by the media.

    Sure, if there wasn't a shutdown, they'd go to "well, if only the Republicans had given us more money for the exchanges or fixed the law, it would have worked, but they didn't want to fix it," but in the event, you had definitely believe that the shutdown will be blamed.

    The media doesn't even have to say it, plenty of people already think it, just hearing about the shutdown and the exchanges not working.

  • wareagle||

    the dishonest argument has been underway for months before with prog references to Heritage and how O-care is a GOP idea anyway.

  • John Thacker||

    Oh, certainly. They would have made a dishonest argument anyway.

    The shutdown simply made it easier for them to do so.

  • wadair||

    Herein lies the only solution.

    The libertarian/conservative alliance must spend money and time building its own media outlets to counter the left-leaning MSM. It's the only solution.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    Fox News/Sun News?

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    Man some of you guys have short memories or severely underestimate the mendacity of the left.

    Remember when they blamed Rethuglican spending cuts for Benghazi?

    Obama will not be blamed for this by anyone on his team.

  • AAC||

    Obama has the burden of being hated and attacked. That's enough any man. He cannot be given any more burdens to shoulder.

  • ||

    With active assistance from the media, let's not forget.

  • Warty||

    You ever try telling a leftist dipshit that the media is an arm of TEAM BLUE? They don't like hearing it.

  • ||

    Nuh-uh, Democrats only developed media savvy to counter the evil propaganda machine of talk radio (add Fox News and the Kochtopus if it's after 2002). Republican operatives are better at keeping their talking points in lockstep and it's UNFAIR.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    You underestimate their capability for assigning blame to outside parties.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    Yes, I suspect they might never run out of Five-Year Plans

  • Faceless Commenter||

    The Brilliant Strategy is that in no way can anyone honestly associate the Republicans with any problems with the health care law.
    ------------
    You need to do better lurking. REPUBLICARE is already well-developed and widespread on the liberalwebz. (From my post waaaay below)

    - it was invented by the Heritage Foundation and Richard Nixon
    - it was single-sourced, HalliCheneyRepublican-style
    - Republicans refused to fund it
    - Republicans refused to provide legislative fixes
    (re the above two, i.e. Republicans refused to buy Obama a solid gold ass-coverer)
    - Republicans shut down the government
    - Republicans said bad things about it and scared everyone away
    - greedy Republican-style corporations cut health bennies to their employees
    - greedy Republican-style corporations cut their employees to part-time
    - greedy Republican-style insurance companies jacked up the premiums
    - greedy Republican states refused to comply with expanded Medicaid

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Sorry for my redundancy. I didn't see this discussion until just now.

  • OneOut||

    I already heard a lib calling into a talk radio show this AM in Houston claim that the reason Obamacare premiums are too high is because those greedy insurance companies are just stealing peoples money.

  • Adam330||

    I've also heard the one that the Ds made all sorts of compromises to get the Rs to vote for it, and it's those compromises that are the problem.

  • Raston Bot||

    I'm too anxious for the Young Invincible™'s price discovery phase of this shitstorm to care about operations. Get that site working please!!

  • Neoliberal Kochtopus||

    Yeah, right. They'll bitch for five seconds and then the Administration will forgive their student loans or some shit.

  • Biden's Scroteplugs||

    probably. and then they still won't buy the shitty insurance because it's shitty.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Student debt forgiveness, but only if fully enrolled in ObamaCare, would be a pretty sweet deal for young Obamatons.

    I think student loans are off-budget, so US politicians would like it, too.

    Everybody wins, provided the Chinese will do their part and keep buying Treasurys.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    ^ This. The gnashing of the teeth and tearing of clothing will begin once people get a good look at premiums and benefits.

    "I wanted to sign up for Obamacare, but on my $30,000 salary after rent, car payment, and student loans couldn't afford the premiums."

  • ||

    I'm looking forward to see all the idiot kids who were part of the Obama cult in 08 and are now in their late 20s realizing how royally screwed over they were by their Messiah.

  • Almanian!||

    Issues? What issues? The Great And Powerful Obama (PBUH) just want a smashing victory over the Teathuglihadistards and is driving the vanquished enemy before him and listening to the lamentation of their women. Wait, there are no Teathuglihadistard wome...NO! Palin and Bachman! Good enough.

    So - listening to the lamentation of their women.

    So Obamacare rules, Teathuglihadistards drool. #WINNING lolwut!

  • Almanian!||

    derp - just for today, on this one thread, "just want" = "just won"

  • Adamsmith1776||

    You know it would have worked had the evil republicans not shut down the government on the dawn of this new age.

  • John Thacker||

    That's going to be the argument. It'll be the easiest thing in the world to convince low information voters of that, particularly D partisans who Want To Believe.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    No. The argument will be "If those EVIL RETHUGLIKKKAN GOVERORS hadn't opted out of creating State exchanges, then the Federal exchanges wouldn't have been overburdened by all the traffic and everything would work fine!"

    As Homer Simpson put it - it takes two people to make a lie. One person to tell it, and the other person to believe it.

  • blcartwright||

    so, they budgeted $94m for a website that they hoped no one would need to use, if every state had their own exchange?

  • Drake||

    I'm amused. Complaining about the Obamacare interface rollout is like complaining about rape foreplay.

    Either way, we are going to get it deep, hard, and against our will.

  • ||

    The numbers involved in this boggle my mind. It could be pretty complicated to set up communication between a bunch of different databases; in fact, it is inevitably going to be complicated. But if those databases have APIs that aren't completely incompetent, you can communicate. As a developer, I would personally spec out something like this, off the top of my head, as a few months (I am assuming that a company that gets paid 94--or is it 300 now--million dollars to do this can field a pretty large team to handle it). They had a few months, and we have...nothing.

    I'm going to guess that we have a perfect storm of incompetence. The contracting company is most likely incompetent, but can get the basics done. But I'd go further to speculate that all the databases they have to communicate with are totally fucked and any APIs used to interact with them are fucked or incompetent as well. Which means that an even competent contracting company couldn't have pulled this off.

    If my above speculation is correct, this exchange can never work. Not unless all the source APIs work. So this could truly be an impossible-to-unfuck situation. Which might actually be a good thing.

  • db||

    I'm surprised some leftist Anonymous crackers haven't tried to break in and fix it.

  • ||

    Well, that would be utterly impossible, so that's probably one reason you haven't seen that happen.

  • db||

    The ones that have managed to break in by guessing the master password (1-2-3-4-5) are currently catatonic in front of their monitors, having faced the gibbering Lovecraftian horror of the raw Obamacare code and lost their souls to the abyss.

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    That's the kind of password an idiot would have on his luggage!

  • some guy||

    It's like Snow Crash meets Event Horizon.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    This English major declares the thread winner.

  • ||

    ...racist?

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    I would guess that each separate department has its own IT system, and that each is a kludged-together shitwagon. Furthermore, there may be no single authority who can issue direct orders to each of these departments to FORCE them to take steps to standardize in order to work with the exchange. So even the most talented exchange developer would be left pleading with various government departments to standardize their systems, and those departments would respond by laughing off the requests.

  • sarcasmic||

    I can tell you from experience that that is exactly the way it goes. The government is the worst customer in the world because they micromanage things they know nothing about, refuse to test, refuse to administrate anything competently, refuse to respond to requests or complaints, refuse to admit fault in any way shape or form, then blame you when it doesn't go exactly as they wanted.

  • Drake||

    Don't forget - they never fire or replace a Project Manager. At least until they are promote or retire with lavish benefits.

  • Brett L||

    administer. Please don't be complicit in making the verb administrate.

    /Grammar Nazi

  • ||

    Brett, do we really need to conversate about this?

  • Brett L||

    Urge to Kill... Elevatoring!

  • ||

    Oh god, please tell me that's something you've really heard. I had to tell someone the other day that "conversate" is just a shoddy backformation and converse is considered standard and he looked at me like I'm a lunatic.

    I also have no idea why the "certificated" exists.

  • db||

    It's a good thing language has been standardizated.

    In the world of government regulation (especially aircraft stuff) "certificated" seems to mean that a certificate certifying the certification of compliance with regulations has been issued. IOW, a cetificated something is the instantiation of a certified abstract design.

    No, it makes little sense to me too.

  • ||

    I think I'm actually more confused now. In CA one is a certificated teacher rather than a certified teacher.

  • Brett L||

    one is a certificated teacher rather than a certified teacher.

    This actually makes sense. They are in possession of a certificate, yet they are not certified to be any better at teaching than some random bum on a park bench.

  • JWatts||

    Well a certified teacher implies someone with knowledge whereas a certificated teacher implies someone with a piece of paper. So, it makes as much sense as you would reasonably expect.

  • Brett L||

    No, I made that one up. I think it is a broken feature of English to reverbalize verbal nouns so one who administers becomes an administrator, who then administrates. That doesn't make it fucking right.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Of course they have their own IT system. Government bureaucracies are empire builders by their very nature. They want their own IT departments and they want their own custom software solutions. It's not because they need them, it's because it's more expensive and it requires a bigger budget. Bigger budgets mean more power in DC. They work long and hard at spinning statistics and gaming the system so that they can ask for the biggest budget possible.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    Re: "if those databases have APIs that aren't completely incompetent, you can communicate"

    Remember that many of these databases are Federal databases. FBI, IRS, CMMS, etc. So you can reach your own conclusions as to the competence behind the APIs and the decade in which they were considered state-of-the-art.

  • Brett L||

    You think they wrote APIs?

    "Here, this is our table structure. Hope you got some good DB guys."

  • ||

    They have to be able to query the database remotely. Table structure is useless, unless the way to remotely query the database is to literally pass it a SQL query, and even then, how is the data returned? You have to have some kind of API. It can be a super basic REST implementation, but you have to have something.

    At this point, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that some or many of the databases they would need to query have no API. And that their solution was to build a forms collection site instead with the intention of having those forms delivered to humans who manned the various databases and would run queries by hand. I know that sounds insane, but...this is government at its most out of control, and as we know, no depths of insanity are too much for that.

  • db||

    It will probably come out that all exchange requests are taken on the web, saved to a textfile in ~root/www, picked up by a shell script that sends them via sendmail to a dude in India who hands them individually to a warehouse full of people who then craft responses, email them back to root@healthcare.gov, which then sorts and parses them into an html reply to the originator. How else to explain DMV-style waiting lines for an online system?

  • Brett L||

    Yeah, I'm saying they literally have to pass SQL queries or COBOL batch commands.

  • wheelock||

    It should be pretty easy to get rid of these things in short order then eh? My name is: "Joe DROP DATABASE cluster_fuck"

  • John||

    My clients often do just that. They hAve a guy sitting at a desk who runs the quieries by hand to each database. They do that because you can't get the databases to all respond to the same code

    There is an immigration database called Ident. It is a multi database quierry system that allows you to do name traces on about a dozen different databases. That took almost ten years to build. And it is a hundred times easier to do than this.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    I am seriously beginning to wonder if America has the largest chasm between private competence and government incompetence in the world. Maybe an older, sadder, more disillusioned Tom Friedman will write a book on it someday in post-Obamacare America.

  • db||

    I'm a devoted reader of the RISKS list. While they have documented the failures of other large IT projects run by government agencies (particularly in Europe), they've been eerily quiet on the subject of the O'Care Exchanges. I suppose, given the generally left-leaning tenor of many of the posters there, I shouldn't be surprised.

  • PapayaSF||

    I have been wondering about this as well, every time I repost this graphic. Are all those government databases really communicating properly? A few people claim to have gotten insurance through the exchange, so does that mean it all is working to some extent?

  • ||

    That graphic is pure gibberish that says nothing. Literally, from an architecture standpoint, it is just smoke and mirrors. It doesn't mean anything. It's basically describing how they think it will work, not how anything does in fact work.

    It's like describing a book by going "it's about this dude who does stuff and then bad stuff happens to him and then he wins".

  • Hillary's Clitdong||

    It's like describing a book by going "it's about this dude who does stuff and then bad stuff happens to him and then he wins".

    J.K. Rowling, is that you?

  • db||

    I hate it when bad stuff happens. I just skip that part of the book. As, evidently, Obamacare fans are hoping to do.

  • PapayaSF||

    Well, I understand it's just "how they think it will work," but my point is that the exchange is supposed to get income data from the IRS, citizenship data from Homeland Security, state Medicaid eligibility from the 50 states, etc. Is any of that happening now? I read that they "delayed" the income verification part, but I don't know about the rest.

  • fish_remote||

    They spell serf incorrectly on the graphic. I'm sure that the intent was legitimate though!

  • CatoTheElder||

    VERY interesting!

  • John||

    The other problem is that if don't own the databases you have no way to make the code comparable. My clients spend their lives trying to get government databases to connect. It is a bitch because the agencies that own them have no interest in making them comparable There is no easy way to get government databases to interface. They are built by different contractors to differ specifications. Anyone who has spent five minutes in government IT had to laugh at this idea from the start. The sites wil never work.

  • Sevo||

    "this could truly be an impossible-to-unfuck situation."

    The correct term is "fubar".

  • Bardas Phocas||

    Obstetricians - Ophthalmologists? Really, what is the difference.

    http://www.latimes.com/busines.....7010.story

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    One was a Representative, the other is a Senator.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    "Nobody can give me a straight answer," said Larry Greenfield, a 47-year-old musician in Fountain Valley. He said he has checked online and called insurers to no avail as he tries to choose between different exchange policies. "I don't want to be forced to buy something if I don't know what I'm getting."

    You'll have to pay for it so you can find out what you're getting.

    That line will never get old. I hope they put it on her tombstone.

  • Killazontherun||

    I don't want to be forced to buy something if I don't know what I'm getting.

    Sir, you just described the inherent problem of democracy for the end user.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    As others have pointed out, this is one benefit of .gov kicking the can down the road a couple months. That time period is going to be wall-to-wall Obamacare stories just like this.

    If Team Red had any brains, they'd be relentless in crowing about the administration's incompetency on this time and time again. Take stories from your constiuents that are getting hosed by this, VERIFY the information, and then roll them out day after day after day.

    Then ask President Cornball, "Was it really worth not negotiating with us on this to see it blow up in your face?"

  • some guy||

    Death by anecdote. That's the American political way!

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Dueling anecdotes. Those favored by the media win.

    Answers to the losers:

    - You're greedy.
    - Your old plan was cheaper because it was substandard.
    - No one ever claimed EVERYONE would pay less. Weren't you paying attention?

  • fish_remote||

    I hope they put it on her tombstone.

    Fool! Pelosi is the undead. Contemplate this as she gnaws your face off!

  • ||

    I was able to create an account. Now I can log onto a web page that contains not a single character. Nothing, Nada. Too bad this isn't symbolic of government in a lot of other areas.

  • Jordan||

    They finally got the Wrecker Detection Module up and working. Libertarians won't be able to access the site anymore.

  • Rich||

    a web page that contains not a single character

    A penny for that URL.

  • ||

  • fish_remote||

    I got a standard "log in/Sign up" page.

  • mgd||

    I got a timeout while waiting for eidm.cms.gov to respond. Or at least the browser claimed that's what it was waiting for.

  • ||

    It may require the cookies, other information from loggin in, on my computer before it throws up the blank page.

  • some guy||

    Yeah, that page was made special... just for you.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    I checked out O'care with this as my e-mail:
    thomas.mulcair@parl.gc.ca
    I like French cuisine. It was one of my security questions.

  • Sevo||

    "Administration Blows Its Credibility With Disastrous Obamacare Rollout"

    Not to Obots of the national media it doesn't.
    The blame lies squarely on the rethugs and the "industry". Obo can do no wrong.

  • fish_remote||

    Obo can do no wrong.

    "Tingles" Matthews concurs.

  • PapayaSF||

    The other thing you hear is "So you want to go backwards to tens of millions of uninsured, and evil insurance companies denying claims??"

  • Sevo||

    Yeah. 'Going backwards' = pure PR, almost as sleazy as the media trumpeting of a 'clean' budget bill.
    When I make a wrong turn and the front two wheels are off the cliff, 'going backwards' is to be devoutly desired.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Would a clean CR look anything like a "clean" farm bill?

  • Sevo||

    It would to ADM.

  • mgd||

    Administration Blows Its Credibility

    I must be living in an alternate universe in which the Obama administration had no credibility to blow after, oh, 'round about Cash4Clunkers or so.

  • ||

    If the problems continue, then a delay in the individual mandate will be inevitable.

    There is no way people are going to stand for penalizing people who can't get insurance because the exchange doesn't work.
    You can't blame people for not spending 12 hours wrangling with a dysfunctional user interface, right in the middle of the holiday shopping and travel season. If this thing doesn't work smoothly by mid-November, they will loose anyone who doesn't already have a preexisting condition.

  • John||

    It is not going to get fixed Hazel. And when people are stuck paying the penalty they are going to go ballistic. I think there is a good court challenge to this if the exchanges don't work. The government may be able to tax you for not having insurance. But I am not sure any court is going to buy that they have a right to tax you for not having insurance that their own website has made impossible to purchase.

    But if Obama delays the penaltax, none of the young people sign up for insurance. Without them, the rates will quickly go into a death spiral as only the sick and the old sign up. I really starting to think this whole thing is going to explode into a major crisis this spring.

  • some guy||

    I think Sebilius will delay the mandate once everyone forgets that's what the Republicans were asking for a few weeks ago. She'll do it and Obama will take credit for it like it was a good thing.

  • John||

    But if they do that, cue the insurance rate death spiral. The whole thing is built around the mandate. I don't see how they can waive it.

  • some guy||

    That's why you don't announce the delay until the deadline. Feb. 15 rolls around. Everyone who could get healthcare has it. Everyone who couldn't get it is in an irate panic. Then you "save the day" by delaying the penaltax. Win-win.

  • some guy||

    Then you also extend the open season for a whole year or something.

    This has the added benefit of screwing the responsible and rewarding the irresponsible, which is what this bill was all about in the first place.

  • some guy||

    Then you also extend the open season for a whole year or something.

    This has the added benefit of screwing the responsible and rewarding the irresponsible, which is what this bill was all about in the first place.

    Besides if your preferred endgame is single-payer, then a death spiral (blamed on some combination of insurance companies and Republicans) is a good thing.=.

  • some guy||

    Everyone thinks the 3pm squirrel is a myth until they experience it for themselves...

  • John||

    There is no fixing the death spiral. It doesn't matter how much you extend or anything else. If the young and healthy people don't buy, the whole thing falls apart. Chances are they won't buy anyway. But there is no way they are going to buy if the website doesn't work.

    The insurance companies are going to go broke and it is going to have huge ripple effects. They are another too big to fail institutions. You watch, we are going to be facing another TARP to bail out the insurance companies.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Oh crap, I hadn't gone that far. I've been asking all over the interwebz for prophets of doom to QUANTIFY the death spiral. I think you hit it. Another TARP. What will Boehner do then?

  • some guy||

    It won't just be a TARP/2. It'll be "Either we can bail out these incompetent insurance companies that everyone hates, or we can move to single-payer where everyone is guaranteed free top quality healthcare. The choice is yours, America."

    And we all know what that choice will be.

  • John||

    Sure Some guy. They were so willing to let the big money bankers go down in 2008. Forget it. Not going to happen. The liberals would love that. But they would never be able to get the support. You have to remember, it would just be the insurance companies. The insurance companies going down would likely destroy the entire financial system and the economy with it. When Berkshire Hathaway and Goldman were looking at going broke, single payer would go right off the table very quickly.

  • John||

    The choices will be another TARP or repealing or gutting Obamacare. Despite Prog dreams and libertarian paranoia to the contrary, single payer will not be on the table. The reason is that single payer would require putting the medical insurance companies out of business. That sounds great and all until you realize if they went down a lot of other people, like bankers and such, would go down with them. No way could the financial system take the hit of the medical insurance companies going bankrupt. And no way would the financial people allow single payer to ever get through.

    So, since the Democrats are batshit insane and will never admit Obamacare is a disaster, a TARP like bailout for the medical insurance companies is a good bet.

  • some guy||

    Maybe. I think it depends on how long it takes for the death spiral to play out. If it's a slow spiral that takes a few elections, single-payer might suddenly be viable, especially if it is phased in slowly by lowering the Medicare elegibility.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    I wonder how the Dems will spin an insurance company bailout, considering medical insurers are their longstanding villains.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    I wonder how the Dems will spin an insurance company bailout, considering medical insurers are their longstanding villains.

    Does this sound familiar?

    "TARP was necessary to prevent a crash!!"

    Democrats are obsessed with trying to prevent economic downturns, even if they have to ignore basic mathematics and moral hazard to do so. They always have the "free market capitalism" boogeyman to blame when their schemes don't bear fruit.

  • PapayaSF||

    I think you could fix the death spiral by massively deregulating the insurance market. Allow purchasing across state lines. (Yes, that's anti-federalist, but may be worth it here.) No more mandated coverage for birth control, pre-existing conditions, 26-year-old children, mental health, drug abuse, acupuncture, allow lifetime limits again, etc.

    The result: a lot of people get lower premiums, and some people get higher premiums. Then, deal with the issues of the latter group, without screwing things up for the former.

    At least that would get around the "one size must fit all" mindset.

  • Adam330||

    the insurance companies already have their premiums locked in for the next year. they can't increase them mid-year. if the mandate goes away, then the result is inusrance companies losing a ton of money in 2014, and then jacking up rates for 2015 to compensate.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Or withdrawing from the exchanges. I suspect they always have the option to not renew and force people to reselect.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    Lose. They'll lose nyone who doesn't already have a preexisting condition.
    /grammarnazi

  • John||

    Here is what I don't think the private IT guys understand about this project. When you get hired to create an interface or to connect databases or such in the private sector, your client owns all of the databases. Thus, if you need to change the way those databases are structured to make it work better, the client can authorize you to do that. It doesn't work that way in the government if you are connecting databases owned by different agencies. The IRS has their databases and the their own way of doing things. And no one in HHS has the authority to change that. Hell, most of the time just getting them to let you have access is a huge accomplishment. In this case, they had the President behind them so access is not a problem. But even though they had access, they didn't have any ability to touch those databases to make their project any easier. So as hard as this sort of thing is to do in the private sector, it is like that times a hundred in the government sector.

  • some guy||

    So, to summarize:

    1. The HHS contractor did not get final specs on the contract until a few months before the drop-dead live data.

    2. The HHS contractor has no control over any of the databases it must interface with and getting information from the admins of those other databases is probably like pulling teeth sans novacaine.

    3. The HHS contractor is politically connected so no one is at risk of getting fired.

    4. This was probably a fixed price contract with options that are virtually guaranteed to be excercised, so the contractor isn't going to lose any money/work.

    No wonder this was an epic fail.

  • John||

    That about covers it. Cluster fuck is a mild way to describe it.

  • anon||

    Well, at least I was wrong about it getting hacked instantly. But only because nobody can access the shit to hack it.

  • ||

    Time for the big iron COBOL programmers to come out of retirement...

  • barry1817||

    this isn't a glitch this is a disaster waiting to happen for those that are looking to steal personal information.

    John McAfee, founder of anti-virus company speaks out against this system

    John McAfee, founder of anti-virus company McAfee, Inc, on the ObamaCare exchanges:

    On Fox Business Network’s “Cavuto” on Wednesday, computer programmer and founder of McAfee, Inc. John McAfee said the online component of Obamacare “is a hacker’s dream” that will cause “the loss of income for the millions of Americans who are going to lose their identities.”

    For starters, McAfee said the way it is set up makes it possible for fake websites be set up to fool people to think they’re signing up for Obamacare.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10.....z2gmX8k0xW

  • John||

    Since there are tons of people who can't get on the website, it would seem that it would be a prime candidate for fishing or whatever they call it. I would imagine most people are so frustrated with it they will not bother to pay a lot of attention once they think they have gotten through.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Brace yourselves for the rebranding of this clusterfuck as REPUBLICARE. I've seen it all over the liberalwebs:

    - it was invented by the Heritage Foundation and Richard Nixon
    - it was single-sourced, HalliCheneyRepublican-style
    - Republicans refused to fund it
    - Republicans refused to provide legislative fixes
    (re the above two, i.e. Republicans refused to buy Obama a solid gold ass-coverer)
    - Republicans shut down the government
    - Republicans said bad things about it and scared everyone away
    - greedy Republican-style corporations cut health bennies to their employees
    - greedy Republican-style corporations cut their employees to part-time
    - greedy Republican-style insurance companies jacked up the premiums

    I also predict that Obama is going to turn his soft viciousness back on his supporters, too. I can just hear his "malaise" speech on 60 Minutes: "Well, I think what happened is that folks just lost patience because of the glitches we had. And I admit we had a few, but people just needed to hang in to make it work. But not everyone has that kind of patience, and that's where we made our mistake. Even though we put out warnings and messages that it would take a little while, we live in an age where if you're not gettin' instant gratification, you just give up and go on home. And that's something we couldn't change about the way most folks think."

  • some guy||

    -Teathuglican Governors/state legislatures hurt the system by refusing to create exchanges.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Woops, forgot that one.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Oop, just remembered another one:

    - Republican infiltrators sabotaged healthcare.gov

  • John||

    Progs love recriminations. When this thing falls flat, you are going to hear a whole lot about the lazy, irresponsible and unpatriotic young people who refused to do the responsible thing and buy insurance. And of course the Republicans and Justice Roberts will be blamed for preventing the penalty from being punitive enough to get the lazy and unpatriotic youth to do the right thing and buy insurance.

    The Progs, no matter what they are going to say about how they really wanted single payer, absolutely thought this cockamamie scheme was going to work. They thought it was going to usher in single payer all right. But not because it failed but because it was going to work so well people would demand single payer. As the full extent of the disaster unfolds, they are going to be livid and start lashing out at each other and anyone and everyone in sight. It is going to be entertaining as hell.

  • some guy||

    The other day I was reading a response to a young commenter who was complaining about the fact that their old catastrophic plan no longer existed. The progressive respondant actually said "Your old plan is gone because it didn't provide all the coverage required by PPACA. It's your own fault for having substandard health insurance."

  • John||

    You are going to hear a lot of that. Obamacare really tore the mask off. The nasty horrible vindictive face of Progessivism is now out for everyone to see.

    They tell a struggling young person that it is their own fault they can't afford insurance. So much for caring about the less fortunate.

  • anon||

    Oh the irony.

    Force young people to buy insurance at artificially inflated prices, THEN blame them when they can't afford it.

    As opposed to Libertarians that say "Hey you don't have to buy insurance, but if you want it it'll be cheap cause the chances of shit happening to you are slim to none."

    And yet I'm the heartless one here.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Yeah, that was on Kos. The comment was Goverment as Religion, pure and simple.

    If the Wonderful Government Program is causing you pain, it's your fault, not the government's.

    If the Wonderful Government Program isn't operating as its prophets foretold, it's because The Enemy is constantly trying to prevent those Good Blessings from reaching you.

    This Wonderful Government Program will work once the world has opened their eyes and accepted The Law as the sole source of truth.

    It's an indication of just how spiritually hollow these people are.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    If the program isn't working as promised, it is the fault of the Unbelievers. How can we receive the blessings of Government when Unbelievers deny that those blessings even exist? Government will only grant us its favors if we all believe. Extirpate the unbelievers, and then you will gain access to the Kingdom.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    Hence my version of Obama's "malaise" speech (it was a long post), wherein he blames the failure on American ADHD and general inability to be as patient and abiding as his professorial, Buddha-esque self.

  • ||

    - some of the website's software programmers, developers and engineers may have been libertarians...

  • Sevo||

    I'm guessing it won't be so kind; that piece of shit has a mean-bone in him a mile wide:

    Well, I think what happened is that the obstructionist republicans had no patience for the miniscule amount of problems we had because they hate a black president!. And everything would have been fine if it weren't for the racists!
    But not everyone is as perfect as I am!

  • ||

    I'm beginning to see parallels to California's failed "deregulation" for the electricity market. The one where they forced utilities to purchase electricity by the minute and forbade them from entering long-term contracts with power plants.

    When this drove the utilities into bankruptcy the state essentially nationalized them (or whatever the equivalent term is when a state government takes ownership) and then signed long-term contracts with power plants (at exhorbitant rates).

    It will be interesting to see what happens if a death spiral really does occur. Do the insurance companies go bankrupt, or do they simply stop selling anything but employer policies?

    Let's say that insurance companies start pulling out of the exchanges one by one. When the last insurance company on the exchange tries to pull out, what happens? Does congress step in and offer a "public option"? If the last one starts going broke, do they nationalize it and turn it into a "public option"?

  • John||

    There will never be a public option as long as the Republicans control the House. And likely wouldn't be one even then if the Dems don't have 60 votes in the Senate.

    And yes, one by one the companies will drop out of the individual insurance markets until it will be impossible for individuals to purchase such insurance. Meanwhile the penaltax will continue. At that point does the Supreme Court revisit the issue and strike down the mandate on the grounds that it is impossible for some people to purchase insurance absent a last ditch public option? They might, especially if the country is up in arms and Obamacare is really hated. Roberts seems more concerned about his image than the Constitution. And I could totally see him reversing himself if he thought it would make himself more popular.

    It is going to be a huge political problem. The Dems are going to be loath to ever agree to repeal the piece of crap no matter how bad things get and the Republicans are never going to vote for a public option much less single payer. My instinct is to think that the Court will step in at that point and kill it to the relief of both sides.

  • ||

    My preferred thing to do is just allow any form of health insurance to qualify to avoid the penalty.

    That will be easy to get if the mandate is still in effect and the exchanges still don't work come January.

    Maybe even health insurance that doesn't cover pre-existing conditions. That would be a de-facto repeal of the ACA in all but name, because insurers would just stop selling any other kind.

  • John||

    Yes. Repealing the pre-existing condition exception would fix a lot of it. But wow would the Dems be loath to do that. But there will not be any good options available for them.

    They will never admit it. But if they don't already, before this is over the Democrats are going to wish that Roberts had not changed his vote and just killed the whole damn thing. Had that happened no one would have known how bad it was going to be and they could have spent years scoring political points by telling the country how they had everything fixed if they hadn't been foiled by the evil Supreme Court.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    De-facto repeal has been predicted for a while. A rolling back of so many crucial requirements that Obamacare would shrink to a dried husk and be really repealed almost as an afterthought.

  • Faceless Commenter||

    This is exactly what I've been looking for. We've all read the predictions of doom, chaos, death spirals, etc, but it hasn't been quantified. Our Side ought to start doing it.

  • Ghetto Slovak Goatherder||

    [3:24:30 pm]: Thanks for contacting Health Insurance Marketplace Live Chat. Please wait while we connect you to someone who can help.
    [3:24:35 pm]: Please be patient while we're helping other people.
    [3:24:48 pm]: Welcome! You're now connected to Health Insurance Marketplace Live Chat.

    Thanks for contacting us. My name is Janeen. To protect your privacy, please don't provide any personal information, like Social Security Number, or any other sensitive medical or personal information.
    [3:25:01 pm]: CALLER
    Hello Janeen.
    [3:25:16 pm]: Janeen
    Hello. How may I help you today?
    [3:25:51 pm]: CALLER
    I want to know who owns me.
    [3:26:08 pm]: Janeen
    Do you have any other questions that I can help you with?
    [3:26:38 pm]: CALLER
    Does the Federal Government own me, or do I own me? I am confused.
    [3:26:52 pm]: Janeen
    Do you have any other questions that I can help you with?

  • Ghetto Slovak Goatherder||

    [3:27:26 pm]: CALLER
    No, I just want help with those two questions. I'm kind of having an identity crisis while visiting this website, and I was hoping you could help.
    [3:27:41 pm]: Janeen
    I apologize for the inconvenience.
    [3:28:17 pm]: CALLER
    Don't apologize! I'm sure this isn't your fault. But, I need to know, who owns me?
    [3:28:48 pm]: Janeen
    Thank you for your patience. I am still researching that information.
    [3:30:06 pm]: CALLER
    Take your time. The concept of ownership is a broad philosophical topic spanning many centuries. You may want to start a Google search with "Social Contract." I think it's a nonsensical concept. Don't you?
    [3:30:33 pm]: Janeen
    Thank you for your question today. It will take me just a moment to review and respond to your question.
    [3:30:43 pm]: CALLER
    Take your time!
    [3:31:12 pm]: Janeen
    Thank you for your patience.
    [3:31:20 pm]: Janeen
    Thank you for contacting Health Insurance Marketplace Live Chat. We are here to help you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
    [3:31:31 pm]: 'Janeen' has left the chat session.
    [3:31:51 pm]: CALLER
    You're welcome Janeen. Thanks for being there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
    [3:31:52 pm]: Your chat session is over. Thanks for contacting us, and we hope we've answered your questions. Have a great day.
    [3:31:52 pm]: 10/17/2013

  • ||

    Please keep doing this. :)

  • anon||

    Ahahahaha oh wow. "Let me research that."

  • Ghetto Slovak Goatherder||

    IOW: "Let me go ask my higher-up if I can terminate this chat without responding."

  • AAC||

    You cannot "slow walk" a systems implementation.

  • thebitterconsumer||

    Please, hardly was credibility lost compared to the current state of affairs where I can't even reach my insurance company, to whom I fork over hundreds of dollars each month when i'm young and healthy and who i'm fear will disclaim coverage whenever I make a claim.

    http://thebitterconsumer.wordp.....l-waiting/

  • Sevo||

    You contradict your supposed argument. From your link:

    "How can I fight back?
    a) File a complaint (New York) with your state’s or the federal government’s consumer protection agency (The Federal Trade Commission). This route is especially helpful where you have already paid for something and now can’t get a human being on the phone to help you. You’re effectively losing money and you’re entitled to it.
    b) Form a petition and post it on facebook or post it here and the Bitter Consumer will pass it around.
    c) Contact the CEO–do some detective work and identify management by using the tools that lawyers use.
    d) complain to the CEO (the Brits offered this solution), but mailing isn’t exacttly a way to get speedy assistance and he probably doesn’t care much anyway about your stupid letter.
    e) Find a consumer advocacy group, like this one or this one and Join up while you’re on hold.
    and to get what you want, once you reach a human being, subtly threaten to take your business elsewhere with the phrase, “it would be a shame if I had to cancel service with (your company) and move to (competitor company).”"

    You DON"T HAVE A CHOICE WITH O'CARE. Take it or pay the fine, peasant!
    But don[t bother lying that what you had is anywhere close to as bad as what Pelosi crammed up the asses of the population.

  • Brian||

    You say you had Blue Cross Blue Shield.

    I had them for two years. I never had a problem calling them.

    But, hey, nothing makes me demand federal intervention like being put on hold. How adult.

  • Sevo||

    Eduard van Haalen|10.17.13 @ 2:07PM|#
    "It shows the failure of the Free Market because it relies on insurance companies and corporate government contractors. Obama didn't have the political strength to pass single payer and get the profit of medical care, so he was forced to pass this right-wing free-market-extremist bill."

    Someone linked the quote from some honest econ-guy. Paraphrased:
    'The government will distort a market as far as it can given the population's current gullibility.
    When the inevitable failure occurs, the failure will be blamed on the tiny remaining market function, not on the massive distortion enforced by the government'.
    Tony (and shreek) are constant reminders of that idiocy.

  • Brian||

    I wonder if the administration had early warning that the Obamacare roll-out would be this much of a clusterfuck.

    If so, I also wonder how much that played into the sudden interest in invading Syria. Perhaps they didn't know they could count on government shutdowns to play such a distraction.

  • Sevo||

    You're presuming intelligence.
    I'm presuming incompetence, luck and a national media who have decided being Obo's PR department is profitable.

  • Calvin Coolidge||

    They were warned, repeatedly, but chose not to believe it. After all, you can always throw more money at the problem to fix it.

  • Sevo||

    "Now that the government has reopened and a debt default averted, the external threats to the Affordable Care Act are over, at least for the time being."

    See? The problem has been caused by those icky rethugs who shut down the entire government! And they were gonna hack it, since they're so smart and our poor leader is just a man of the people! See? Nothing is the fault of that dreamy guy! See?
    http://www.sfgate.com/business.....904970.php
    The amazingly sleazy Andrew Ross licks the floor where Obo walks once again.

  • juliajuli2734||

    my neighbor's aunt makes $86/hour on the computer. She has been unemployed for 5 months but last month her payment was $21941 just working on the computer for a few hours. go to the website
    ==========================
    http://www.works23.com
    ==========================

  • CatherineJLin||

    just as Carol responded I didn't know that people can make $6819 in 1 month on the computer. read this
    http://WWW.JOBS72.COM

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