Unhappy Labor Day: Obamacare Edition

How the president’s signature law is making life harder for working Americans

When the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases the unemployment number for the month of August this Friday, even an improvement in last month’s 7.4 percent seasonally adjusted rate will leave the number higher than it was during any month of the George W. Bush presidency.

And it’s not just the unemployment number that is grim. That number, after all, gets better when job-seekers get so discouraged that they stop looking for work. The labor force participation rate, which measures the percentage of Americans older than age 16 who are in the work force, is the lowest it has been since the late 1970s.

Why are things so bad?

Sure, there was a financial crisis. But that was five years ago already.

It’s possible to put a good face on the declining labor force participation rate by considering it a positive development that Baby Boomers are enjoying their leisure time in retirement, or that parents are staying home with their children, or that young people are staying in school.

At least some of the people working part-time, though, say they would like to be working full time; in July an estimated 8.2 million Americans were working part-time for economic reasons, the highest number in a year.

Part of the problem is Obamacare. Sure, all the mandates haven’t kicked in yet. But businesses consider the cost of future mandates in making hiring decisions.

The clearest explanation of the effect of Obamacare on employment that I have seen recently comes in a paper by a professor of economics at the University of Chicago, Casey B. Mulligan, recently released by the National Bureau of Economic Research. He writes that the Affordable Care Act, along with other expansions in safety net programs, has created “a massive 17 percent reduction in the reward to working.” As a result, he says, “it is unlikely that labor market activity will return even near to its pre-recession levels as long as the ACA’s work disincentives remain in place.”

Much of the discussion about the effect of Obamacare on the job market has focused on the behavior of employers. One of Professor Mulligan’s contributions is to consider the incentive effect on employees, or would-be employees.

He offers the example of a person comparing a 29-hour-a-week job without employer-sponsored health insurance with a 40-hour-a-week job that includes employer-sponsored health insurance. Given the subsidies that the federal government provides for health insurance under Obamacare, the person ends up with more money, and the same amount of health insurance, by taking the part-time job.

“Moving from-full-time employment to part-time employment can trigger generous assistance with health insurance and out-of-pocket expenses that can offset much of the income lost to reduced work hours,” he writes. “Under the ACA, it will not be extraordinary for people to be able to have more disposable income from a part-time position than from a full-time one.” 

As Professor Mulligan’s paper puts it, Obamacare’s provisions combined “raise marginal tax rates in 2015 by 10 percentage points of total compensation, on average, for about half of the nonelderly adult population and zero percentage points for the rest.” Professor Mulligan describes the results as “startling,” which may be understating it.

Now, one might object that these calculations are so complex that no American who is not a TurboTax programmer or a certified public accountant, or both, will be able to figure them out clearly enough to make a decision on whether to work full-time or part-time based on them. Perhaps. But families making decisions about, say, whether a spouse goes to work full time or stays home with the children have a way of being surprisingly sophisticated about such matters.

One might also object that for many Americans, full-time work is less a cold economic-cost benefit calculation and more a matter of a fulfilling mission or calling that yields psychic rewards not easily measured in dollars or cents. That may be true for some people, but it’s not necessarily true for everyone.  If the economic rewards for paid work aren’t there, people may choose to seek their psychic rewards through volunteering or by working at home baking bread, growing vegetables in the backyard, or reading to their children in ways that don’t show up on the Bureau of Labor Statistics payroll survey.

Anyway, you don’t need to be a economics professor at the University of Chicago or an official at the Bureau of Labor Statistics to figure out that if individuals can end up with more money, or about the same amount, by working 11 fewer hours a week, plenty of them will choose that route, with the bill paid by borrowing from China and future generations and by taxing mostly people working full paid work weeks (or retired after doing so for decades). It’s a sobering message for Labor Day, and one to keep on mind on Friday when the unemployment number is announced.

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  • Ted S.||

    Now, one might object that these calculations are so complex that no American who is not a TurboTax programmer or a certified public accountant, or both, will be able to figure them out clearly enough to make a decision on whether to work full-time or part-time based on them.

    Or Tim Geithner.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    With the uncertainty wrought by our central planners in Washington, I'm surprised anyone tries to expand their staff or grow their business today.

  • ||

    People just work around it. This is why the parasites keep growing and don't seem to get any message or feel any pushback; because people realize they cannot fight the parasite, so they immediately start working around it. And so, in this way, the parasite becomes even more distorting and disruptive, and at the same time it trains business people and small businesses to always just find a loophole, to just find a way to continue to operate. And it trains large businesses that they have to get in there and lobby to make sure that the parasite's actions are as advantageous for them as possible.

    People have gotten used to uncertainty. The boom we would have if the parasites in Washington just backed off a little would be amazing. But they will never do that, because instead of blowback against their planning and their bullshit, there is just avoidance, and they see that as a failure of central control, not an obvious result of market forces. And, like Vader, they will continue to tighten their grip even as more star systems of the economy slips through their fingers.

    There have been absolutely zero repercussions for the politicians for the economy, for over-regulation, for Obamacare, for scandals, for wars, for drone strikes, for Fast and Furious, the list goes on and on and on. Why on Earth would they change or stop? Ever?

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    I have come to the same conclusion over the years. Markets are like rivers, always working, no matter what dams and other obstacles are built in their way. We are so used to getting around bureaucrats that it is as normal as throwing rocks in a ditch and watching the water flow around them.

    It has become so pervasive that we, in the generic sense, no longer notice bureaucrats. We just take it for granted they will come up with some new stupidity and the rest of us will find some way to get around it.

    We accept this state of affairs because there is always some benefit to somebody, and if we get benefits from one program out of 1000, and see benefits for friends and family from another 10 programs, it's better to get some of our own than raise a fuss. Better to dig a new ditch to steer water than clear the old ditch.

    The economy gradually gets slower and slower, but it also evens out, like a clogged ditch flooding the road. It's just the way things work, and it's easier to accept it as reality than fight it.

    The only solution is to make sure these bureaucratic obstacles are mortal and non-coercive like any other business, so the failures can go out of business and disappear. Creative destruction doesn't work without the destruction bit. But people are too satisfied with the little scraps they get, and any attempt at tearing down the entire monstrosity would founder on people's fears that they might lose their benefits while some other schmucks will keep theirs.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Markets are like rivers, always working, no matter what dams and other obstacles are built in their way. We are so used to getting around bureaucrats that it is as normal as throwing rocks in a ditch and watching the water flow around them.

    Geez. I've heard that sentiment a million times during my travels in the corrupt 3rd World, but it rings so true back here as well.

    America: Leader of the 3rd World

  • PapayaSF||

    And we are increasingly Third World in the percentage of the populace that thinks "socialism" sounds good. This is not a coincidence.

  • BigT||

    The black market in goods and services is a key feature in the avoidance. Expect it to grow proportionally to the interference from the govt.

  • PapayaSF||

    I think that's correct. The underground economy seems huge compared to decades ago.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Well, fundamentally, the thing you have to remember is that, when you strip away everything, a market is just people. Specifically, people acting on their own to TRY to get as good a material life for themselves and their loved ones as they can. So, when governments act to control markets what they're really setting out to do is to control people to act against their own interests. Unsurprisingly, when people are faced with such situations they seek to get around harming themselves or at least offset the damage done. This much SHOULD be intuitively obvious. But, the reference to markets as something distinct from people in the popular culture (to disguise the nature of interventions against the free market) obfuscates this.

  • Rich||

    I'm surprised anyone tries to expand their staff or grow their business today.

    What is the TSA, chopped liver?

  • SomeGuy||

    no but their enployee are -_-

  • Almanian!||

    WOw! That jsut takes the cake! LOL!

    www.fuckbusinesshard.gove/srsly

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The “Cost of Health Insurance” continues its reign as the number one small business problem, a position it has held for over 20 years. The number one ranking is nearly unanimous across all 53 sub-categories of businesses analyzed in this survey, e.g., S-corporations, manufacturers, 10-19 employees. The three defectors are the transportation and warehousing, and agriculture, forestry, fishing industries and non-employer firms where “Energy Costs, Except Electricity” ranks number one. And although the percent of business owners who cite it as a “critical” problem fell from 66 percent in 2004 to 56 percent in 2008, the “Cost of Health Insurance”
    problem still overshadows the number two problem - energy costs.

    Health insurance costs have risen 129 percent since 1999, 84 percent since 2001. These huge cost increases have forced some small business owners to terminate their employee health plans while preventing others, including new entrants, from instituting one in the first place. The result is that approximately 59 percent of the small firms (3 - 199 employees) now offer a health plan, down from 68 percent in 2000

    http://www.nfib.com/Portals/0/.....ties08.pdf

    Date of survey - 2008

  • General Butt Naked||

    Does anyone else hear that horrid slurrrrrping sound?

  • fish_remote||

    Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me dude.

  • PapayaSF||

    And government has been meddling in the health insurance market for generations, hence the rising costs. So what's your point?

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    Moar meddling will finally work this time !

  • Tony||

    But you'd blame your stubbed toe on government meddling.

    Some day you guys will have to grow up, stop playing with yourselves, and figure out what the fuck evidence means.

  • XM||

    There weren't many "small businesses" that provided health insurance with Obamacare level of coverage to all of its employees anywhere.

  • ||

    Palin said:

    Therefore, Obamacare is awesome.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Well, shrike, at least the anon-bot agrees with you. This must be your best day ever on H&R! A supporter!

  • General Butt Naked||

    Anon-bot is infamously an-cap and has shown nary an iota of support for the policies that shrike advocates.

    You take that back, good sir.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    If everyone agreed with me I would quit posting.

    I like to argue. Unfortunately there is no one capable of arguing in good faith here. They contradict, lie, obfuscate... but not much else.

  • Almanian!||

    contradict, lie, obfuscate...but not much else

    Looking in the mirror as you say that is appropriate.

    Also, needs moar CHRISTFAG BOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!11!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    We're supposed to feel bad that Reason's most vicious homophobe finds "no one capable of arguing in good faith here"?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I am no homophobe.

    I presume you mistake me for one by my use of "fag" as a suffix to other words. I do this intentionally to point out an unnatural relationship otherwise spurned by the conservative mind when applied to his/her weird "love" relationship with an authority figure (usually religious or a Reagan).

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Are you kidding me?

    I bet you feel justified in referring to certain people as "house niggers" too, but don't consider the usage racist.

    Give me a break!

  • fish_remote||

    Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me dude.

  • General Butt Naked||

    If everyone agreed with me I would quit posting.

    There are places, Daily KOS and Huffington Post for instance, where you could make this dream a reality. Go forth into the dark night of the internet, young lackey!

  • sarcasmic||

    Oh my goodness you're numb. Fucking shit you're numb. Do you snort Novocaine? Because that grey shit between your ears is fucking numb.

    You really don't understand.

    Libertarians look at an issue, apply some principles, and arrive at a conclusion.

    That is the exact opposite of you and Tony and Tulpa who look at an issue, have an emotional reaction, and then work backwards to justify it.

    I think the dentist missed and stuck his needle into your brain.

    Fuck.

    It's a boring day I've got nothing to do except to get a load of PBs and drive them to the zoo!

  • fish_remote||

    Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me dude.

  • SomeGuy||

    wheres the link :)

  • Gorilla tactics||

    don't know...dude

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Unfortunately there is no one capable of arguing in good faith here. They contradict, lie, obfuscate... but not much else.

    The dissonance, it burns.

  • Jordan||

    The king of Tu Quoque is apparently immune to irony.

    Want to take a crack at the substance of the article now? The fact that health insurance was previously the number 1 small business problem says nothing about Obamacare.

  • Dweebston||

    That was his point? The system broken by a milieu of perverse incentives, an atrocious payment scheme, endless mandates, the denial of national competition, and highly restrictive labor protections was and continues to be a source of discomfort for businessmen? Is this a post-hoc defense of the single-payer trap, PBP?

  • ||

    Palin, fine. You like to find articles that "contradict" what's argued at Reason. You claim to be a classical liberal or some shit. Yet, I've never seen you, you know, use CLASSICAL LIBERAL examples to support your claims.

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    Oh really? we all agree with you then. Now please leave. And no peeking.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Unfortunately there is no one capable of arguing in good faith here.

    Translation: "Whenever I lose an argument (which happens a lot) I disappear and come back a week later with the same position as if nothing happened."

  • Bill Dalasio||

    For Shreik, "arguing in good faith" = "accepting every assumption I bring to the table".

  • General Butt Naked||

    OT:

    Watching BBC right now and they're talking about Syria. The argument isn't that what happened in Syria needs to be stopped by us, or that it's in our interest to stop what's happening, but rather that Obama will lose face over this if we don't attack. Basically, Obama and, by extension, our credibility in the world will be damaged by not following up on whatever cowboy bullshit our POTUS ejaculates during a press conference.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • fish_remote||

    ....and the festivities started on me birthday. Well not the year of course!

    PS: HAPPRY CHRISTFAG

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    A shame. We need more immortal vampires posting on this forum.

  • Bam!||

    Soon we'll go to war over Wikipedia edits.

  • ||

    It's great to cite national defense and the military as a justification for a powerful state.

    Of course, that's only if you can ignore how it's actually used in practice, instead of theory.

  • Guy LaGuy||

    Next time they close a factory making fossil-fuel machinery – whether cars, tractors, or airplanes – don’t let them do it,” she said. “Do what workers are doing from Argentina to Greece to Chicago: occupy the factory. Turn it into a green worker co-op. Go beyond negotiating a last, sad severance. Demand the resources – from companies and governments – to start building the new economy right now.”

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I have absolutely no problem with squatting truly abandoned property and making something useful out of it. However, what Klein refers to is often not terra nullius.

  • Sevo||

    "Demand the resources – from companies and governments – to start building the new economy right now.”"

    Yep, demand someone else give you stuff! The prog anthem!

  • Bill||

    You didn't build that .....

    Nothing like starting over and building a business the Naomi Klein way - steal the property and buildings from someone else and then get a subsidy from the "govt" (i.e. taxpayers) to keep it running.

    Brilliant!

  • dantheserene||

    "from Argentina to Greece to Chicago"
    Are you sure those are examples you want to go with? Note that she probably meant Venezuela to complete that trifecta.

  • PapayaSF||

    I would pay money to watch Naomi Klein try to run a factory.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    You just made me smile. :-)

  • Bill||

    She would have built in profits in the form of subsidies. Notice she had demand the resources and included gov't as one of those to demand from.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    The first thing that ought to be "occupied" is Naomi's trust fund.

  • Guy LaGuy||

    Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe

  • Bam!||

    This is more or less the start of every Japanese monster movie.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Turn it into a green worker co-op. Go beyond negotiating a last, sad severance. Demand the resources – from companies and governments – to start building the new economy right now.

    Just make certain the government will shield you from all risk.

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    I really hope the "crazy bird" faction votes to impeach if he doesn't get some formal authorization to use force. I don't care if it loses 2-1 in the house. It should still be done.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Oh the fun we'll have when the Executive doesn't have to put any boots on the ground, except robot ones!

    I'd much rather we follow Japan's path and concentrate on making robots that shake their ass with a feminine gait.

  • Bill||

    Yeah, that's a real turn-on!

  • Gorilla tactics||

    I'm surprised sexbots haven't arrived yet actually.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Photo Caption:

    "Now BNSF will get the exclusive rights to transport them to the camps, right? I don't want to have to worry about any of that 'competitive bidding' crap."

  • Irish||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Sevo||

    Harry Bridges was a commie, and he said none of 'his' workers would unload containers in SF. He was right; the container port opened in Oakland.
    'His' workers found out that the real-world minimum wage was zero.

  • PapayaSF||

    Not just a commie, but an actual agent of Stalin.

  • Sevo||

    "Not just a commie, but an actual agent of Stalin."

    I did not know that. Got a cite?

  • PapayaSF||

    "Emory University historian and political scientist Harvey Klehr in a book he co-edited, The Secret World of American Communism (Yale University Press, 1995), reveals that documentation from the archives of the fallen Soviet Union identifies Bridges not only as a member of the Communist Party USA but also as a clandestine member of the CPUSA’s Central Committee."

    I once read that he was in charge of sabotaging the docks should the US and USSR ever go to war, but I can't find a cite for that. However, nobody gets to be on the CPUSA’s Central Committee in Stalin's time without being a trusted, 100% Stalinist, so I think that's enough to call him an "agent."

  • Sevo||

    Thanks.

  • Sevo||

    Oh, and knowing and/or controlling what cargo gets moved is a very valuable asset.
    He's more despicable than I knew.

  • ||

    I'd say it's quirky rather than crazy. Definitely a fun read though.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    They don't teach good writing skills in longshoreman schools anymore.

  • Sevo||

    It'd be easier to like the arrangement if the ILWU weren't pissed that medical care ain't totally "free".

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    NO mention of the mailbox

  • Warrren||

    Fascinating story about the slum near Nairobi.

    Also check the comments for people pointing out problems with the article.

    http://www.economist.com/news/.....mtown-slum

    Sure they have many externality issues and a government that is corrupt etc but they have put together quite the experiment in spontaneous order.

    I'm inordinately pleased (I should be mortified at the conditions that bring it about, but strangely I'm not) at how you, in the 21st century, can hire a mercenary spear-man to see you home safely and only for 58 cents.

  • Paul R||

    The fact that this is impressive in Africa tells you something about
    Africa. I mean you can buy Fruit without getting stabbed? Economic machine!

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Federer out again?
    Oh my

  • IceTrey||

    It's amazing how one man with one vote is going to destroy the entire world economy. John Brennan is going to go down in history as that man.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    What the fuck - enjoy....

    Congressional Republicans: Hail Ceaser!
    9:22 AM, Sep 2, 2013 • By WILLIAM KRISTOL

    One of American conservatism's leading thinkers, James Ceaser of the University of Virginia, weighs in on "To authorize or not to authorize:"

    Republicans should support some version of the authorization of force resolution. They should do so even if they think that the President’s policy will prove ineffective, do no good, waste money, or entail unforeseen risks; they should do so even if they think he has gotten the nation into this situation by blunders, fecklessness, arrogance, or naiveté; and they should so even if, and especially, if they have no confidence in his judgment. The simple fact is that the nation and our allies will be at further risk if the world sees a presidency that is weakened and that has no credibility to act. Partisans may be tempted to see such a result as condign punishment for the President’s misjudgments; they may feel that he deserves to pay the price for his hypocrisy and cheap and demagogic attacks on his predecessor. But at the end of the day, Republicans need to rise above such temptations; the stakes are too high. The weaker the president’s credibility on the world scene, the more the need to swallow and do what will not weaken it further. President Obama is the only president we have. That remains the overriding fact.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    and they should so even if, and especially, if they have no confidence in his judgment

  • PapayaSF||

    Has Kristol thought this through? Are Republicans supposed to support Obama's credibility for the next three years? How can they? Obama can easily destroy his own credibility on many things, regardless of whether there's a vote in Congress. He already has.

  • LarryA||

    President Obama still has credibility he can lose? Really?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    It's good to see the Neo-Cons openly embrace their fascism.

  • Number 7||

    These people are truly evil. Evil. We need to go kill some brown babies so Obama can feel good about himself. Maybe the better way to put this is that if he wouldn't go off half cocked and make threats that he can't back up then he wouldn't be in a position of giving temptation to partisans. Fuck these people are evil, they don't give a shit about people, only their own political calculations

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Just imagine if Republicans don't find it in themselves to overcome their partisanship and help Pres Obama accomplish whatever he wants -- we could be invaded by another nation, which would then install a capricious dictator who uses our money and resources to transform our country, prop up an unaccountable police state, and force us to wage wars without regard to interests or political traditions.

    Oh, wait...

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

  • Irish||

    Then there's this.

    White House claims that Obamacare will save Ohioans 21% on premiums, gets caught lying.

    But the 21 percent is not a savings over current premium levels, but projected increased premiums:

    Christine Eibner, a senior Rand economist and lead author of the study, told us in a telephone interview this afternoon that she considers this is a realistic way of comparing premiums. It compares premiums for coverage people will get on the exchange with coverage they have or would have had without Obamacare.

    Based on that calculation, the average premium for individual policies in Ohio would rise by $900, or 22.65 percent...

    The price hike would be offset for many Ohioans by the taxpayer subsidy.


    So the 21 percent “savings” doesn’t actually even quite make up for the 22.65 percent increase in average premiums. And the savings are only for those getting subsidies. Those paying the full premium themselves will get hit with the full 22.65 percent increase.

    So the vast majority of Ohioans will pay more, but some will pay less more because of subsidies. HOORAY OBAMACARE!

  • PapayaSF||

    And, of course, somebody has to pay for the subsidies, sooner or later.

  • Swamp Think||

    Hush child. That's the magic part.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    James Clavell, Noble House, 1981:

    "Does everyone here have a mistress?" "Good lord no. But, well, sorry, but men and women age differently and after a certain age it's difficult. Bluntly, pillowing and love and marriage aren't the same." "There's no such thing as faithfulness?" "Of course. Absolutely. For a woman it means one thing, for a man another." Casey had sighed. "That's terrible. Terrible and so unfair." "Yes. But only if you wish it to be." "That's not right! Think of the millions of women who work and slave all their lives, looking after the man, scrubbing and cleaning and nowadays helping to support their children, to be shoved aside just because they're old." "You can't blame men, that's the way society is." "And who runs society? Men! Jesus, Quillan, you've got to admit men are responsible!" "I already agree it's unfair, but it's unfair on men too. What about the millions of men who work themselves to death to provide—that jolly word—to provide the money for others to spend, mostly women. Face it, Ciranoush, men have to go on working until they are dead, to support others, and more than frequently at the end of their lives, a hacking, shrewish wife—look at Pug's wife for God's sake! I could point out fifty who are unnecessarily fat, ugly and stink —literally. Then there's the other neat little female trick of the women who use their sex to trap, get pregnant to ensnare, then cry havoc and scream for a highly paid divorce.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    What about Line Bartlett, eh? What sort of a wringer did that wonderful wife of his put him through, eh?" "You know about that?" "Of course. You ran a tape on me, I ran one on both of you. Are your divorce laws fair? Fifty percent of everything and then the poor bloody American male has to go to court to decide what proportion of his fifty percent he can retain." "It's true Line's wife and her attorney almost put him away. But not every wife's like that. But God, we're not chattel and most women need protection. Women throughout the world still get a raw deal." "I've never known a real woman to get a raw deal," he said. "I mean a woman like you or Orlanda who understands what femininity means." Suddenly he had beamed at her. "Of course, en route she has to give us poor weak bastards what we want to stay healthy."

  • Irish||

    Scott Walker wishes people happy labor day, liberals get SO FUCKING ANGRY!

    Jaxon Brow @JaxonBrow

    @ScottKWalker ...& thanks for another example of the HUGE hypocrite that you are!

    GRRRRRRR! I don't know what the word 'hypocrite' means!

    Liam Goldrick @lgoldrick25

    A eulogy from the executioner RT @ScottKWalker: Happy Labor Day! #labor #WIunion

    HARUMPF! It would be better if we never got our unions under control so that we might follow the examples of wonderful utopias like Detroit and San Bernardino.

    The Daily Edge @TheDailyEdge

    .@ScottKWalker fuck off

    This is the most intellectual thing a liberal has ever said.

    gardengal @tkalex9052

    @ScottKWalker YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! GO AWAY! I WANT MY STATE BACK!! #wiunion

    I ALSO NOT KNOW WHAT HYPOCRITE MEANS! ALL CAPS SHOWS SERIOUSNESS AND HOW INTELLIGENT I AM!

    Tom Kidd @FabulousThomasJ

    .@ScottKWalker If there's a Hell below, YOU are gonna go. Word.
    1:24 PM - 2 Sep 2013

    Being opposed to union thugs makes you worth of damnation!

    Liberal tears are so, so wonderful.

  • PapayaSF||

    One reason I want him to run in 2016 is to see lefty heads explode.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Smart Diplomacy in action:

    US leaves ‘unreliable’ British out in the cold
    British military chiefs are being ejected from US meetings about Syria in the first direct consequence of David Cameron’s refusal to join military action.

    The role of senior British officers based at US Central Command in Tampa, Florida, has been downgraded because they cannot be trusted with high-level intelligence about a conflict with which they are no longer involved, military sources say. ...

  • Warrren||

    Is Britain in the Cheneyian Old Europe or the New Europe?

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Perfidious Albion strikes again.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Meh, this doesn't strike me as being that bad on its face. Everything in military planning and intelligence is on a need to know basis and they don't need to know if they're not participating.

    Of course, Kerry and BO have been blathering about our battle plans for a week to the media, so not sure what's left to protect.

  • Warrren||

    Awesome political cartoon.

    http://praxeology.net/true-power.jpg

  • PapayaSF||

    Nice.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Cover Oregon's third tv ad for obamacare:

    http://youtu.be/43R_7UKvy2Y

    $10m down the drain for their advertising.

  • Pope Jimbo||

    Shoot, Sunny Minnesota's $9M advertising campaign doesn't look so bad.

  • John Galt||

    For the first time in my life I actually know people who have given up seeking work. The official 7.4 percent unemployment is likely way below the real numbers.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    DEA accessing Americans' phone records for decades

    For at least six years, law enforcement officials working on a counternarcotics program have had routine access, using subpoenas, to an enormous AT&T database that contains the records of decades of Americans’ phone calls — parallel to but covering a far longer time than the National Security Agency’s hotly disputed collection of phone call logs.

  • Irish||

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    I just saw that on my news feed.

    With Alchian gone, I don't know who's left to worry about losing, at least in their league...

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Oh, great, the news just gets more and more depressing - RIP

    imtotallyunironicnow.com

  • MJGreen||

    Damn. I was wondering when he was going to go. He reached a ripe old age, and he was still doing good work.

    That's about it for the old guard, I think. We've lost Buchanan, Alchian, and Coase all this year.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    Still got Sowell

  • Paul R||

    The unemployment rate was bad when Obama first took office. The reason is simple: late capitalism. Automation has allowed millions of workers to be fired, and the same time, many jobs have been outsourced and immigrants have taken other people's jobs. The boom we saw during the Bush years was the result of artificially low cost credit allowing a spending binge. The bust revealed the true colors of late capitalism. "Libertarian" policy, more immigration, more free trade agreements, more late capitalism generally will only exacerbate this problems. Libertarians seem to think there is this reserve of employers who would love to hire if only they could pay their workers a second rate wage. This is not a reflection of reality. And real Americans deserve an American wage.

  • Sevo||

    OK, folks, we been busted! Paul is onto us! We've been running the country for years and now we've been found out!

    ..."The bust revealed the true colors of late capitalism. "Libertarian" policy,"

    BTW, Paul, you're an idiot, as evidenced here:
    "And real Americans deserve an American wage."
    Real Americans deserve what their skills earn, bozo.

  • Paul R||

    Real Americans deserve what their skills earn, bozo.

    I disagree, and I'll wager that most Americans would disagree as well.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Most Americans are economically illiterate and ethically misguided, if not outrightly wicked in their ignorance.

    "Deserve" is such a fun concept; I think we've been arguing about it since the concept of ownership was formed...

  • Sevo||

    "I disagree, and I'll wager that most Americans would disagree as well."

    Yeah, but you're an idiot.

  • PapayaSF||

    My rule of thumb is that anyone who uses the term "late capitalism" without irony is a fool regarding economics.

  • Sevo||

    Sorta like that guy Marx?

  • PapayaSF||

    Should he be an exception? Hmmmm... no. The labor theory of value is so totally idiotic that I saw through it about 15 seconds after I heard it.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    The Labor theory of value is a secular reformulation of the protestant divinity of labor, it made no sense because it was never really an economic concept to begin with. Just a hard ass calvinist like Smith trying to justify labor for it's own sake.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    "Late capitalism" is only accurate if you are talking about the 1890s.

  • Irish||

    And real Americans deserve an American wage.

    I wonder who this could be.

    The unemployment rate was bad when Obama first took office.

    Yes. It's just stayed bad for far longer than any other recession.

    The reason is simple: late capitalism.

    Late capitalism apparently means the most regulated economy that America has ever seen. Damn you free market! Why do you keep making me regulate you until people are unemployed?

    Automation has allowed millions of workers to be fired, and the same time, many jobs have been outsourced and immigrants have taken other people's jobs.

    Paul R in 1898: "Unemployment was bad before McKinley took office. Thanks to machine tools and the industrial revolution, a person can no longer work their loom and in so doing be gainfully employed. Now our textile industry is overrun by filthy Irish immigrants who drive down wages."

    The boom we saw during the Bush years was the result of artificially low cost credit allowing a spending binge.

    Hint: Artificially low credit allowing a bloated spending binge =/= a free market.

    Libertarians seem to think there is this reserve of employers who would love to hire if only they could pay their workers a second rate wage.

    No. There are tons of people who would start businesses and become employers were they not stifled by over-regulation.

  • ||

    Now our textile industry is overrun by filthy Irish immigrants who drive down wages.

    How many generations of clean Americans must be faced with your people's filthy menace on our once great nation!?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    You forgot this: "Demand curves slope downward."

    It really ought to be our motto.

  • Paul R||

    "Unemployment was bad before McKinley took office. Thanks to machine tools and the industrial revolution, a person can no longer work their loom and in so doing be gainfully employed. Now our textile industry is overrun by filthy Irish immigrants who drive down wages."

    And it just so happened that wages greatly increased after the 1924 immigration act. Did you know that average heights declined during your prescious gilded age?

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Did you know that average heights declined during your prescious(sic) gilded age?

    And?

  • Sevo||

    "Did you know that average heights declined during your prescious gilded age?"

    Murkin, is that you?

  • Irish||

    I called this twenty minutes ago:

    And real Americans deserve an American wage.

    I wonder who this could be.

    He's got a few tells.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    AMERICAN, FUCK NO!

    ...But in all seriousness, it was pretty obvious -- although I wasn't aware of his fondness for post-modern, Marxist boilerplate like "late capitalism."

  • Irish||

    He once told me that we need to get rid of immigrants because they create a 'reserve army of labor.'

    This is a theory that no one other than Marxists have ever put forward.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Well, I sort of do believe in the reserve army of the unemployed: It exists when labour markets aren't allowed to clear, e.g., when there is a price floor.

    Funny that...

  • Gorilla tactics||

    there a no shortages, just absences of clearing prices.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    there are no shortages, just the occasional lack of clearing prices.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    I love marxist boilerplate, here are some of my faves;

    "late capitalism"

    "logic of capitalism"

    "inherent contradictions of Capitalism"

    "Super Structure"

    "discourse"

    "Non-Dialectical Gramscian Analysis"

    "Insitutionalized Power Structure"

    "false consciousness"

    "class interests"

    Cmon, I there are regretful Liberal Arts Degree holders out there-post what ya got!

  • Irish||

    And it just so happened that wages greatly increased after the 1924 immigration act. Did you know that average heights declined during your prescious gilded age?

    You mean average wages increased during a massive boom period? No way! What happened between 1929 and 1945? Because what you've just shown me is that wages increased for five years during a boom period and plummeted during the Great Depression, facts which seem to have explanations that are unrelated to immigrants.

    Did you know that average heights declined during your prescious gilded age?

    ??? And? We shouldn't allow immigrants to come here because they're short? Italians, the Chinese and the Irish aren't as tall as the noble Anglo-Saxon and German stock that proceeded them?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Post Paul ergo propter Paul.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    DEY TERK YER JERBS!

  • XM||

    What the heck is late capitalism? Is early capitalism better?

  • meta||

    Man early capitalism was the shit!!! All top men had monocles and a huge variety of specific monocle cleaner to choose from as well as so many childrunz to clean the monocle. Yeah it was great back then, but then mid capitalism happened and it went through a mideconomic crisis and bought sports cars and houses they couldn't afford but government pressured people to just give them the money and it also got the grey area dyed out, but it eventually spiraled out of control into late capitalism. Late cpaitalism is the wrinkly, viagra needing form of a once bustling economy where 1000's of pages of regualtion were just not enoough and it needed more before it could move back into early capitalism thus completing the circle of economics.

  • ||

    Team Blue in action. A friend of mine posted about this article on Rand Paul

    Rand Paul Says 'Rebels Winning Is A Bad Idea For Christians' In Syria

    paired whit this text "This guy is such an asshat. It saddens me to know that I'm probably going to have to deal with his inane prattle for another 30 years or so."

    I replied (which I normally avoid doing on FB politics) with "I get that you disagree with his politics, but is he wrong here? Violence towards ethnic and religious minorities tends to run riot after the fall of a strongman dictator. His concerns for a community that has 2000+ year roots in Syria and currently has a precarious place there is valid." but it's labor day weekend and nobody really seems to give a shit.

  • Irish||

    But Jesse, you didn't use valid and intelligent arguments like 'this guy is an asshat' or 'I hate his inane prattle.'

    How can you expect to win an argument without concern trolling, ad hominems or foot stomping temper tantrums?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Ab auctoritate?

  • ||

    Damn it! Was this one of those times that I should pretend I'm emotionally over-developed and emote an argument to win?

  • Warrren||

    That's how you stole that last piece of cake out from under me, you bastard.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Republicans, especially libertarian-ish Republicans, can never under any circumstances be right.

    I hope one day Rand explicitly comes against the drug war, citing the damage it does to blacks and other minorities, so we can see progressives embrace prohibition again.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    We must live in parallel-goatee universes, because in my world, prohibition makes progressives harder than the Rock of Gibraltar

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yep, proggies love prohibiting shit, it's like they're the cultural heirs of the Puritans, or something.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    secular post millenial puritanism

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Late Night Link™, for those interested in monetary theory, the business cycle, etc....

  • Warrren||

    freebanking.org is da bomb! Love that site.

  • Warrren||

    And if you want an education into how the classical gold standard worked as operated by a central monetary authority check out newworldeconomics.com

  • Lady Bertrum||

  • Warrren||

    Thanks for the link.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Words of wisdom from our favorite libertarian comedian:

    @billmaher: Kudos to Barry for restoring constitution re war powers. Tea People shld luv it but of course wont cuz President Blackenstein did it

  • Warrren||

    It's like he makes money by getting people upset What a crazy business model.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Kind of like Slate.

  • Warrren||

    Is Salon in this group? And who would be in there from the right?

  • Lady Bertrum||

    I think so. Stuff like this School is a Prison seems to just be click bait.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    On the right..Breitbart and the Daily Caller?

  • Irish||

    Breitbart often is, but they do their own journalism sometimes. They broke the Pigford Scandal and Anthony Weiner's situation. Of course, that was back when Breitbart was there. Since he died, no one who is still at Breitbart is smart enough to do the leg work for actual journalism so it's turned more and more into a right-wing Slate. Daily Caller does some of their own journalism too.

    On the right I'd say Twitchy is a good example. I actually enjoy some of that 'look at this stupid liberal!' stuff, but it clearly only exists for conservatives and libertarians to shake their fists angrily.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    tuff like this School is a Prison seems to just be click bait.

    But they are correct on that one.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    GIS "school or prison"

    or not.
    I don't care.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    Ann Coltrane and Limbaugh used to be shock jocks of the right, but they've mellowed out as time's gone on.

  • Dweebston||

    I don't think they have; they're both still bombastic curmudgeons. Inciting liberals and inflaming so-cons is good business. Also, Coulter is a rubbish Red Eye guest.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Zerohedge is click bait to me on all things market and economy. They travel into tinfoil hat territory, but they're fun.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    I used to hang there under this name (sans parentheses) but they've crossed the line from anti-establishment to anti-American in the past few months. You can only read so many literary salad-tossings of Vlad Putin before you recoil in horror from everything that site stands for.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    True, but they have several posters using Tyler's name, and the ones focusing specifically on the markets are usually really lucid.

  • ||

    The commentariat there is very OMG JOOOOOZ!!!!

    And that gets very tiresome.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Yep. They're completely wacked, but Tyler links to good stuff by Dylan Grice and others, so, from by perspective, worth wading through the BS.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Don't even get me started on that Benedikt concerntroll bullshit: I'm a very bad person, and proud.

  • Rich||

    President Blackenstein

    and his First Booty Lady

  • wakeup||

    Re-think 911: a billboard ad campaign coming to a city near you.
    If you can do nothing else to help incite appropriate inquiry into the events of 9/11 and their myriad consequences, consider doing this.

  • PapayaSF||

    Go away, and take your b.s. conspiracy theories with you. It makes no sense: if THEY were going to demolish the buildings with hidden explosives, why not just do that? Why bother to enlist people to hijack planes and hope they hit their targets? Just blow up the damn buildings and blame it on terrorists. It's simpler, cheaper, produces a higher body count, and is easier to cover up.

    Basic logic, how does it work?

  • Warrren||

    I'd rather support a rethink of 9-11.

    And the Pentagon stuff is pure batshit.

    They hit it with a back-up missile or other plane? If it was my op I would have not had any back-up weapons, they would have all had targets and if one missed that would just have to be.

  • PapayaSF||

    That one's even crazier. Again, why not just shoot the missile instead of using the plane crash as the cover story, but beyond that, if the "conspiracy" is true, then where did that plane go?

  • Warrren||

    Right. Where the hell is Barbara Olsen?

    And if you can get one missile deployed why not get more missiles?

    A lot more flexibility there. Not as much of an economic impact like grounding the airlines for a few days but I think the tactical flexibility is of more value.

  • SIV||

    Where the hell is Barbara Olsen?

    Queen of the Lizard People.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    It simply amazes... How can anyone, almost twelve years later, doubt Cthulhu's responsibility for the attacks?

  • Warrren||

    Vote for the Greater of two evils!

  • Sevo||

    wakeup| 9.2.13 @ 10:31PM |#
    "Re-think 911: a billboard ad campaign coming to a city near you."

    wakeup, have you met Paul R? You two idiots ought to have a lot to discuss.

  • Almanian!||

    I can't belieb you all are talking about monetary systems and Shriek's vagina when the exciting conclusion to #Sharknado is upon us. For the third time, or whatever.

    Spoiler alert - she's a he shark.

  • Warrren||

    Um.."belieb"? Is there something you want to share?

  • Almanian!||

    You may judge me if you wish.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    That's my job.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Dude got a German speech impediment. Why you gotta rag, man?

  • Almanian!||

    Best speech impediment: Richard Pryor's "stutterin' Chinese motherfucker."

  • Warrren||

    You answered your own question.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    But that Raonic -Gasquet match was a doozie

  • Irish||

    Townhall publishes an article that inexplicably contains the following lines:

    The tiresome antics of former Disney princess Miley Cyrus exemplifies a larger phenomenon. Liberalism, in our culture and in our politics, is figuratively twerking all normal Americans. And it is up to us to fight back.

    Fight back, America. Fight against the figurative twerking.

    Hell, even the Republican establishment is on the verge of twerking itself out of not just recapturing the Senate but out of keeping the House with its flurry of lies and dissembling about immigration. Marco Rubio was our fresh-faced Hannah Montana, but after his shameful campaign of line blurring aimed at conservatives he’s now just a GOP Miley Cyrus rubbing on Chuck Schumer.

    What.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Great. Now I've got a mental image of Rubio twerking Schumer.

    My guess, if liberalism really is tweking all of America then America secretly likes it.

  • Warrren||

    It all makes sense if you read it backwards three times while in a candle-lit room in front of an antique mirror in a house that just may have had a murder committed in it.

  • Almanian!||

    And roll some Blue Oyster Cult while chanting "The Manson Family, The Manson Family, The Manson Family...." over and over.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Don't forget to play Abbey Road backwards.

  • Almanian!||

    Do we REALLY need for Paul to die again?

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    I say, "Live and let die."

  • Dweebston||

    As far as I'm concerned, Paul died on the dunes of Arrakis, blind and broken. The man who returned to confront Paul's sister may or may not have been Muad'dib, but he certainly wasn't Paul.

  • Warrren||

    It all makes sense if you read it backwards three times while in a candle-lit room in front of an antique mirror in a house that just may have had a murder committed in it.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!

  • SIV||

    Racist Miley Ray Cyrus should be a conservative heroine the way she culturally appropriates all that Black Ratchet juju.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Why is Miley getting all the blame? Robin Thicke was the twerkee. Isn't he equally blame worthy and racist? Sexists.

  • Warrren||

    He's a nobody. Miley was Americas' Sweetheart!

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    "PATRIARCHY! RAPE CULTURE! SLUT SHAMING!"

    ...Need I continue?

  • ||

    Tonight's dose of Facebook stupidity:

    "Consider working less. Not working fewer hours (you get paid for those), but expending less effort. Slow down, speed racer. Worker productivity is not a good thing in the context of capitalism and it should raise a few red flags that those most invested in increasing it are the idle rich. They want you to work harder so they can pay you less. Indeed, Americans are already working harder than ever, the productivity of the average employee increasing more than 80 percent in the last 25 years. That increase in productivity has created an amazing amount of wealth, just not for those who produced it. Don’t feel lousy about taking some of it back from those who took it from you."

    Followed by a link to this article:

    http://thenewinquiry.com/essay.....s-article/

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    It's so cute when a wannabe intellectual re-discovers featherbedding and thinks it's clever.

  • Sevo||

    Related:
    "

  • Sevo||

    Related (second try):
    "A brutal Labor Day for some ex-Nummi workers"
    Woman who was overpaid at NUMMI hasn't found a job in 3 (THREE!) years. And it's not her fault; she deserved that pay!
    http://www.sfgate.com/business.....780318.php

  • Almanian!||

    *facepalm*

    Unfortunately, working in a union environment as a member of mgt, this is exactly the mentality of soooo many.

    Not, "we'll bring a shitton more work in here and give everyone a raise if we're more productive"...."I gotta do less or you'll give us fewer jobs."

    Cause lowering productivity increases employment and job security.

    GAAAAAAAAH!

  • ||

    I noticed going to the DMV during the CA furloughs was a nightmare but everyone seemed to be taking their sweet time. I assumed they were trying to prove that they needed those hours, but a local Mexican insurance place that was licensed to do DMV filing ended up taking up the surplus of their customers and they were incredibly efficient.

  • Sevo||

    ..."a local Mexican insurance place that was licensed to do DMV filing ended up taking up the surplus of their customers and they were incredibly efficient."

    That darn profit motive makes gov't sloths look bad every time!

  • Warrren||

    If only we can come up with a system that replicates the profit motive without any, you know, profits because people shouldn't take advantage of others' weaknesses.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-VA)||

    And of course, equating productivity increases since 1988 -- when there was no internet outside the military and academia, for example -- with "working harder" is cute too.

  • Irish||

    I don't know what you're talking about Tulpa. Obviously the increase in productivity had nothing to do with the internet, more efficient distribution systems, or robotics.

    It's because workers work 80 percent harder than they did 25 years ago. It's just a fact.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Bush's Reagan's fault

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    I'm going to take a wild guess that this guy has not produced, "taken", or been anywhere near wealth in a very long time.

  • Warrren||

    Taken was not a good movie.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Taken2 was worse

  • Warrren||

    Didn't bother to see it. When it hits Netflix I'll run it while I do something else

  • Lady Bertrum||

    We discussed this last week. I repeat, Liam Neeson looks like he's going to break a hip at any moment. It hurt to watch him.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    It's on Netflix in Canada where I watched the first 15 minutes before it even hit a major plot point.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    Porn doesn't need a plot, even if it's violence or scenery porn.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Twerker and the Monkey man were hard up for cash...

  • Sevo||

    OK, but it IS a happy sales day!
    http://producten.hema.nl/
    Just watch for a couple of seconds before you start clicking.

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    How dare someone make a profit providing a service someone else wants!
    HOW DARE THEY!

  • Irish||

    Three Fallacious Theories of Profit

    When pushed, defenders of capitalism come out with a number of fallacious theories to explain profit. They are very crude.

    Here are a few examples in no particular order.

    a). The Del Trotter Theory of Profit

    The first fallacious theory is that profit is made by one capitalist making more profit than another. This is the Del Trotter theory of profit. Del Trotter was the central character in the situation comedy “Only Fools and Horses”.

    The sentence I bolded makes no sense. Profit is made by one capitalist making more profit than another? So profit is created by more profit. Profit is self-creating.

    Profit is God.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    I got my BA in Econ, and would like to think I'm well-versed in the subject. I have literally never heard anything close to the so-called Del Trotter theory of profit. The other two "theories" are idiotically wrong as well; profit is, quite simply, revenue - opportunity costs.

    Marx would have beat this writer to death with his cane, had he read something so badly garbled and fatuous.

  • Gozer the Gozerian||

    "Für den Kapitalismus ist der Profit alles, sind die Menschen, die ihn schaffen, ein Dreck."

  • Dweebston||

    This must be a joke. The "Indiana Jones" theory of profit is so rife with portentous misunderstandings, it reads like something written by... well, by one of the facetious regulars here as a joke about Marxist logic. About the only reasonably construed line,

    in deciding to invest his original capital to obtain more capital than the initial investment it still does not explain where profit comes from,

    is true as far as it goes. Which isn't far. Profit isn't a reward any more than wages are, and to style it as somehow magicked into being (from the alleged POV of capitalist theory) is disingenuous. Profit is a function of creating value from inputs; "value" derives from the willingness of consumers to purchase the output for more than the sum of the inputs. It's the guesswork, triangulation, and risks taken that result in profit, but this is simply entrepreneurial arbitrage, not lottery winnings. The wages offered had to be competitive, else no product would have been made and consequently no profit. Similarly the material inputs. Consumers opted to buy the result and forgo spending on alternative goods. At any point one or another party might have balked at the exchange, yet none did. So wherein lays the exploitation?

  • Warrren||

    Don't want to be exploited or exploit others. Set of your own firm and do all the work yourself.

  • Sevo||

    Yep, nothing more valuable than a hole in the ground:
    "Whereas capitalism’s economists produce fallacious theories to explain profit, Marx’s explanation of profit from the exploitation of the commodity, labour power holds true."
    Unless it's filled back up with that oh, so valuable labour!

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Rand Paul to campaign for Steve Lonegan

    Lonegan has no chance of beating Cory Booker, but I sure do appreciate Paul for making the effort.

  • Dweebston||

    In light of Reason's recent domestic drone coverage, I present: the catocopter

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

  • RiggedVoting||

    Tweets to my congressmen don't show up on their pages unless I am logged into the account that tweeted, so am I the only one that can see them? They are not protected. See if your tweets to pro war congressmen show up when viewed from another account. @RepFitzpatrick @SenBobCasey @SenToomey

  • Tony||

    You don't get to talk about Labor Day or making life easier on workers. You are libertarians.

  • Long Range Boredom||

    Hey everyone, the local authoritarian's here to tell you what you can and cannot do based on his arbitrary worldview.

  • Tony||

    It is a major pillar of libertarian politics to abolish worker benefits and protections.

  • kbolino||

    It is a major pillar of libertarian politics to abolish worker benefits and protections regulations that suppress economic activity and exacerbate human poverty.

  • Tony||

    How fun, can I play this game too?

    Let's see. How can I turn something bad into something good by cleverly deploying empty platitudes? I don't want genocide, I want to abolish regulations that suppress economic activity and exacerbate human poverty, that's all.

  • kbolino||

    Did you have a point?

  • Tony||

    You're kind of begging the question as to whether your regressive, anti-worker policies would actually achieve those goals.

  • Enigma||

    "I don't want genocide"

    Tony, stop lying to yourself, your family, and us. If I were able to get 15 million people to stop paying taxes and resist taxing authorities using any means necessary, what would you do to them?

  • Tony||

    Why? Who knows? It's just arbitrary to favor the gamut of protections and entitlements that business owners get but none for workers. It could be that you're just evil dicks.

  • kbolino||

    It's just arbitrary to favor the gamut of protections and entitlements that business owners get but none for workers technical merit over needless politicking.

  • ||

    Tony:
    You don't get to talk about Labor Day or making life easier on workers. You are libertarians.

    Fine, just as soon as you stop talking about freedom in marriage. You're a statist.

  • Tony||

    Marriage is a concern of the state.

  • kbolino||

    For the preservation of the purity of the races, yes?

    Jeez, at least pretend not to be a Nazi.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    I noticed how much labor day sucks yesterday. Everything was closed, including decent places to eat, and I was inconvenienced by a damn parade of union jackasses wearing their matching colored t-shirts. I couldn't give two shits about having the day off. Fuck labor day and its socialist origins. Don't take a short vacation on labor day weekend to "progressive" cities.

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