Are Hispanics Too Stupid to Become Americans?

No. And here's why.

(Page 2 of 2)

Hispanic educational achievements and incomes do lag behind those of white Americans. And certainly there is a substantial genetic component to intelligence; genes are, after all, the recipes that build bodies and brains in response to environmental cues. Yet as Unz’s analysis of Lynn and Vanhanen’s data shows, the average IQ of a population can change in a generation whereas its genetic makeup cannot.  So what else might account for relatively lower Hispanic achievement so far in the U.S.?

The University of Texas economist Stephen Trejo suggests a number of possibilities. For example, Mexican immigration has lasted longer than immigration from any other country, promoting the growth and stability of culturally comfortable ethnic enclaves and slowing the process of assimilation. Trejo also proposes that earlier generations of unskilled immigrants faced a far less steep learning curve for moving up in a modern economy. In his 2005 book Italians Then, Mexicans Now, the Bard College sociologist Joel Perlman bolsters this point: “The crucial difference between the immigrant experience a hundred years ago and today is that relatively well-paid jobs were plentiful for workers with little education a hundred years ago, while today's immigrants arrive in an increasingly unequal America.” Trejo also wonders if some fairly significant proportion of Mexican-Americans have simply already melded into the white population and so are not counted in the sorts of IQ, income, and education statistics cited by Richwine and other researchers.

Perlman concludes that “Mexican economic assimilation may take more time—four or five generations rather than three or four.” Possibly so. But ultimately, modern Hispanic immigrants seem to be no stupider than the immigrant ancestors of other Americans.

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  • ||

    Are we American baiting?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Hey, remember the thread where I so completely destroyed Americlown's "arguments" that he was reduced to posting non sequitur and nonsense?

    That was awesome.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Which time? I lose track of them all...

  • ron650||

    Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job Ive had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringin home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, www.Mojo50.com

  • tarran||

    Around here we call that Thursday.

  • ||

    Has he ever posted anything other than non sequiturs and nonsense?

  • Almanian!||

    American is like our former troll Max - full of derp and fun to bat around on the H n R.

  • mnarayan||

    You mean the thread where you gave a serious, thought-out response to someone who was probably a troll but might have been a racist nutjob? I think you're going to have to add a bit of scoping for there to be just one. The author's name and precise minute of thread creation might be enough.

  • Jules||

    The analysis by Unz doesn't withstand scrutiny unfortunately.

    1. a statistically significant correlation can be found between birth year and scores for some of the nations which Lynn has provided data for, but Ireland, at this time, is not one of them.

    2. There is no evidence of a Hispanic Flynn effect if you go through 14 nationally representative samples ( PISA 2009, PISA 2006, TIMSS 2007, PIRLS 2006, PIRLS 2001, ADD Health, GSS, NLSY 79, NLSY 97, CNLSY, NAEP Main, NAEP Long term, High School Transcript Study, and NELS).

    http://humanvarieties.org/2013.....as-a-bear/

    3. The The largest analysis to date was conducted by Roth et al (2001). A meta-analytic general intelligence gap of 0.72 SD was found for the 70s through 90s:

    Looking at 3rd generation and beyond Hispanic scores: The differences ranges from 0.35 SD (GSS) to 0.77 SD (TIMSS grade 8 science). The average of the differences comes out to 0.61 SD or, when averaging PISA, TIMSS, and PIRLS tests scores per year, per grade (e.g., PISA 2009 MAth + Reading), 0.59 SD. This is not largely different from the general intelligence difference reported by Roth et al. (2001).

    4. Note that controlling for SES you get significant gaps.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/w.....cation.png

  • Bill||

    I teach lots of smart kids and lots that are less smart and how hard they work is still more important than how "smart" they are.

  • vopiwobypacA3||

    Scarlett. I agree that Angela`s artlclee is astonishing... yesterday I picked up a top of the range Ford Mustang from having earned $5249 this - five weeks past and-over, 10 grand last-munth. this is definitely the most rewarding Ive had. I actually started 9-months ago and immediately brought home at least $86 per-hour. I use the details on this website.... grand4.com
    (Go to site and open "Home" for details)

  • A Serious Man||

    ::lights 'American' signal::

  • Almanian!||

    Does that look something like this....?

    http://cache3.asset-cache.net/.....+JtsI007c=

    (SFW)

  • Almanian!||

    Aw, shit - I SF'ed it :( I haz a sad.

    No, I'm not going to try again...

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    So what exactly did Richwine’s dissertation say? And is there any truth to it?

    For most of his analysis, he relies on the work of the University of Ulster psychologist Richard Lynn and the University of Tampere political scientist Tatu Vanhanen, which focuses on differential average IQs between nations.

    Well, there's his problem. For a long time now, it's been known that the data sets used in IQ and the Wealth of Nations are faulty to the point of academic fraud.

    That anyone saw Vanhanen and Lynn's data in Richwine's works cited and still published the dissertation is a scandal on par with the Skoal Affair.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "a scandal on par with the Skoal Affair"

    Was that before or after the Redman Incident and the notorious Copenhagen Debacle?

    *ducks and runs from room*

  • fish_remote||

    You sir are my hero!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Sokal...goddamit....

  • fish_remote||

    Sokal...goddamit....

    I prefer the Skoal....I won't touch that jewish shit!

  • fish_remote||

    Okay well maybe a bottle of "HeBrew" on occasion!

  • Jules||

    Not really. The data used by Lynn & Vanhanen matches PISA and TIMMS results.

    http://www.technologyreview.co.....the-world/

    Also, it's increasingly used in economic papers and found to robustly predict a range of macro-economic outcomes.

  • John C. Randolph||

    I've had the good fortune to meet about a dozen people that are geniuses, and I don't mean that in the hollywood sense, they're actually scary-smart. Not a one of them places any weight at all on IQ tests.

    -jcr

  • A Serious Man||

    Is IQ even an accurate measure of intelligence? Even if it is it still does not negate the fact that people who learn certain skills and can do certain jobs have economic value.

  • ||

    The true measure of someone's IQ is whether they already know what the outcome will be, and if they stick to that narrative no matter what the outcome actually is.

  • hotsy totsy||

    ^^ Exactly the way the overwhelming majority of university presidents think! I think you're on to something!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It depends on what you mean by "intelligence". Many in the field of psychometrics posit that a factor known as "g" exists. The question remains if current tests can accurately identify and quantify g. Furthermore, there are scholars who argue for the existence of multiple g-factors, a camp of which I am squarely in.

  • Sidd Finch||

    Who are these scholars?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    L.L. Thurstone and Howard Gardner are the two biggies.

  • fish_remote||

    Thurstone and Howard

    Why did I read that as Thurston Howell III at first?

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    low g-factor would be my guess?

  • fish_remote||

    I can't dispute this statement.

  • Sidd Finch||

    Gardner believes in "multiple intelligences" -- a vague, unscientific concept -- not multiple g-factors.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The irony is that many criticize the concept of a g-factor as "vague" and "unscientific".

    But yes, Gardner rejects standard models of psychometrics. He doesn't argue that MI theory is "scientific" in that with current technology it is something that cannot be quantified and tested in a falsifiable way. Gardner makes the same criticism toward those who argue that a g-factor exists.

    In my point of view, it makes sense that multiple g-factors could exist when one takes into account the modularity of the brain. I look forward to further advances in neuroscience that could help answer this question in one way or another.

  • Sidd Finch||

    As an engineer, I'm fine with 'works in practice but not in theory.' So if Gardner's work is helpful for teaching, and it appears to be, good for him. But all of his MI's are in fact g-loaded, so he hasn't presented a scientific argument against g.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Reading my previous post, I see I made a typo. I should have said that "Gardner makes the same criticism toward those who argue that a single g-factor exists."

    In short, Gardner believes that currently g cannot be accurately measured, but he does believe a g-factor exists and that it is probably a multiple g based on brain modularity.

    For someone who argues against the existence of g, I direct you to the work of Peter Schonemann. Unfortunately, I can't find any of his articles on the Internet for free, but here is one abstract.

  • Sidd Finch||

    I'm not going to read any anti-heritability crap.

    From a neuroscience standpoint, I'm dubious about the existence of g. For example, thinking speed and efficiency may be completely independent. Boom, multiple g's. From a practical standpoint, I don't see why that matters.

  • SIV||

    I look forward to further advances in neuroscience that could help answer this question in one way or another.

    Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. Why don't you examine the entrails of a goat and then make a guess?

  • seguin||

    The problem with g-factors is that they're hard to find. Spotting them is more art than science, and my own searches seem fruitless - I'm starting to think that they're fiction.

    Also, vagina.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Obviously, we need to invest more in Sybian technology.

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    SF'd that link. Seems to be a trend.

  • DarrenM||

    I tend to think there are different 'types' of intelligence. IQ measures only one type, and not necessarily all that accurately.

  • shamalam||

    I am in the "multiple G spots" camp.

  • John C. Randolph||

    I think I saw that movie. Wasn't Alison Hannigan in it?

    -jcr

  • $park¥||

    "But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you."

  • Almanian!||

    - Warty

  • Zeb||

    I think it is in the sense that people who are very smart generally do well on IQ tests. But a lot of people are very good at some things and very bad at others, so I don't think that a single metric can really measure intelligence fully.

    So I guess IQ tests are good at measuring IQ, which is defined as the thing that IQ tests measure.

  • $park¥||

    Sure, take an "unintelligent" person who is probably dyslexic and has real trouble with tests but can streamline the shit out of an electrical system.

  • A Serious Man||

    That's what I mean. If a Mexican immigrant can fix my car at a price I agree with should it matter if he can't solve figure out contrived logic problems?

  • $park¥||

    I'm with you. The only thing that irritates me sometimes is the language barrier. I'm less inclined to hire a person to do a job, no matter how good they are, if I have trouble understanding what they're saying. I don't think people should be forced to learn the language, but it makes sense from an economic standpoint.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't think people should be forced to learn the language, but it makes sense from an economic standpoint.

    Absolutely. It makes sense from their perspective and from my perspective, a guy who studies how people learn language and how to help them learn it more effectively.

  • T||

    You're shilling for Big Language again, aren't you?

  • DarrenM||

    Ultimately, what matters is how much value a person can contribute meaning how much can he get someone else to pay for his skills/labor. IQ in and of itself doesn't mean much. There is a work ethic, imagination, initiative, creativity, etc. These are not measured in IQ tests.

  • John C. Randolph||

    a lot of people are very good at some things and very bad at others,

    Like how politicians are very good at making promises, but they suck at keeping them?

    -jcr

  • Jules||

    The problem is that the National Research Council found each low skill entrant has a net fiscal cost of $130,000 in todays dollars.

    When you factor in lower academic achievement levels after 4 generations (Ortiz & Telles) then you inevitably are going to have a less skilled workforce with lower per capita income.

  • Rrabbit||

    IQ tests do not measure intelligence. They measure "IQ".

  • ||

    Eugenics: it's a lefty tradition!

  • sarcasmic||

    Bring back phrenology!

  • fish_remote||

    Well sarc if they do that you might as well crown me King today....I got a melon like Charlie Brown!

  • sarcasmic||

    I've never been able to tell if I have a fat head or a thick skull. Either way, I wear a large hat.

  • fish_remote||

    I've never been able to tell if I have a fat head or a thick skull.

    The beauty of phrenology is that neither condition is disqualifying.

    You and I stand as gods before the reason commentariat!

  • sarcasmic||

    Aye! Bow to me you small-headed peons! On your knees!

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    I have a hard time finding hats that fit. My melon is extra large.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Have you tried a crown of thorns? That might fit.

  • Zeb||

    Hmm. I come from a long line of people with large heads. Maybe I should get on on this Phrenology thing.

  • fish_remote||

    Are Hispanics Too Stupid to Become Americans?

    It is my sincere hope that hispanics are smarter than the T o n y s, shreekys and Stacks, Mary (each and every one of them) who already are U.S. citizens

  • Zeb||

    The proper question might be whether they are stupid enough to become Americans.

  • Pro Libertate||

    We do, after all, have standards.

  • fish_remote||

    The proper question might be whether they are stupid enough to become Americans.

    ...and if they are insufficiently stupid to qualify today, a rigorous program of HuffPo and Slate article comment section reading will correct this condition in as little as an afternoon.

    A miracle....really!

  • $park¥||

    a rigorous program of HuffPo and Slate article comment section reading will correct this condition in as little as an afternoon.

    Either that or make them change their minds about moving to America.

  • fish_remote||

    Well if we are bound and determined to make them "Honey Boo Boo" viewers it's a risk we'll have to take!

  • $park¥||

    Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, followed by Dance Moms, followed by Keeping up with the Kardashians. Let's brain drain the entire world.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    More like "brain vaporize".

  • seguin||

    Throw them into the Pit Of Youtube! The ones that survive will come out sideways.

  • DJF||

    I thought that Ron Bailey would be more interested in knowing if Hispanics were too stupid to become Libertarians or even Reason Magazine subscribers.

    So what is the answer, have Hispanics been flooding into Libertarian meetings and overwhelming the Reason Magazine subscriber hot line?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Well, we have Old Mexican, the Immaculate Trouser, and I'm sure many others. Not every poster wears their ethnic identity on their sleeve like I do, you know. :)

  • A Serious Man||

    I'm half-Hispanic and have a Hispanic last name. Of course I easily 'pass' as white.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I'm married to a half-Colombian. She's pretty smart and, well, other good stuff.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    White Hispanic!!!

    /NYT

  • fish_remote||

    Who knew Trayvons killer frequented here?

  • Zeb||

    I think there might be some other white Hispanics in the world.

  • fish_remote||

    I'm not so sure....according to MSNBC they've apprehended the aforementioned.....so it's safe to return to your homes citizens.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Out shooting innocent black toddlers? Jesus, really?

  • DarrenM||

    I think there might be some other white Hispanics in the world.

    There was a revolutionary war hero in Bolivia with my last name. It's a very Irish name. Incrediblly, there were emmigrants to other countries than the U.S.

  • mgd||

    Bernardo O'Higgins is a national hero in Chile for his role in Chile winning independence. Some people's reaction to learning that is just priceless. It's like they expect every surname south of the Rio Grande to be "Martinez" or "Rodriguez".

  • A Serious Man||

    Trayvon's killer had a white last name.

  • fish_remote||

    See....RACISS!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    THE HUN IS NOT WHITE!

  • Pro Libertate||

    So did Trayvon, you know.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I have a solution that eschews all of this other nonsense. A cover charge:

    13. To the extent that bibertarian/welfare policies remain in place despite my best efforts, charge a per-person cover charge to each country that "allows" its citizens to illegally emigrate to the United States. However, the first drink is on the house and all domestic drafts are $2.00, call brands are $5.00. Complimentary buffet available from 6:00 - 9:00 p.m. in most states.
  • Paul.||

    Who's the bouncer?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Some guy named Ben. Big black guy. He's actually nice, but he looks really scary.

  • DarrenM||

    looks really scary

    Primary qualification. If you look scary enough, you may not have to get physical.

  • tarran||

    Who gives a shit?!?

    Let's say, ad arguendo, the distribution of IQ's of native born americans shifts so that the average goes down. So what?!? Does this mean we are harmed? No, because society will adjust its customs, expectations and products to accommodate any arbitrary intelligence curve, including the one we got now.

    The arguments that particular lines drawn in the ground magically have importance that allows third parties to override the business decisions of people on opposite sides of the line inevitably turn out to tell us more about the superstitions of the maker than pontifications on any other issue, other than maybe sex.

  • $park¥||

    because society will adjust its customs, expectations and products to accommodate any arbitrary intelligence curve, including the one we got now.

    Just for the sake of argument, is it really a good thing if this always has to happen? How much efficiency does a constant retooling rob from a system?

  • tarran||

    Society is constantly retooling anyway, so I don't see it as a significant cost. Hell ending slavery was pretty disruptive, and yet I don't think anyone would argue that the social 'retooling' that ending it would have required justified prolonging it one microsecond.

  • $park¥||

    That's a fair point. I think another downside, though, is the general apathy created in more intelligent people created by the constant "dumbing down" of society.

  • tarran||

    But it's not.

    Two hundred years ago, people used to entertain themselves throwing crap at people pilloried in the stocks. Now they watch Honey Boo Boo.

  • $park¥||

    It may not actually be overall, but you can't deny that that feeling is there. It just seems to me that the lowbrow/highbrow divide is a little more pronounced now than it used to be. And that's most likely just a function of there being millions more people alive now than there ever were.

  • tarran||

    I used to think so too, but the more I've thought about it, the more I've questioned that.

    All we know about the past is really the product of written history, basically the output of the high-brows of the era.

    This really introduces a massive sampling bias.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Of the graffiti found on the walls of Pompeii, at least 90 percent* of it is dick jokes, around 7 percent are political advertisements, and around 3 percent makes fun of Christians and Jews.

    * Numbers pulled via rectum

  • $park¥||

    Of the graffiti found on the walls of Pompeii

    My wife and I went to Portland, ME on vacation last year. One day as we were walking we found an old building that had graffiti all over the side. There was one sentence that was horribly misspelled and about six others around it with corrections and chastisements for the horrible misspelling.

  • np||

    That may not be so far off given the reality:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.....erculaneum (NSFW.. maybe)

    If anyone is looking for some tender love in this town, keep in mind that here all the girls are very friendly (loose translation).

    Other inscriptions reveal some pricing information for various services (for the gals too)
    Athenais 2 As, Sabina 2 As (CIL IV, 4150), The house slave Logas, 8 As (CIL IV, 5203) or Maritimus licks your vulva for 4 As. He is ready to serve virgins as well. (CIL IV, 8940).
  • $park¥||

    This really introduces a massive sampling bias.

    Sure it does. But that the point I was trying to make about population increase. The more people there are in the world, the more visual percentages will be. 20% of 1,000,000 is less than 20% of 330,000,000 even though the percentage is the same.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Touche!

  • Sidd Finch||

    Does this mean we are harmed? No, because society will adjust its customs, expectations and products to accommodate any arbitrary intelligence curve, including the one we got now.

    If the composition of a country doesn't affect an individual's income, why do so many people want to immigrate?

  • tarran||

    Income is predicated on the availibility of capital goods, not the fractional changes in the intelligence of the producer.

    Moreover, most people aren't coming here solely to get rich, they are also looking for security and stability as well.

    And a stable, free society provides the institutions and opportunities for all these things.

  • Sidd Finch||

    Garrett Jones makes a compelling case that average national IQ is a much better predictor of an individual's income than his own IQ.

  • Jules||

    Well, the problem is that you get a less skilled workforce, higher welfare dependency and crime (all are linked to lower population cognitive ability).

    Also, you will get increased demands for special set asides to colleges and for faculty appointments because you will have a disproportionate amount from certain populations with higher average scores. So you undermine attempts at having a meritocracy, eg. MIT has to change it's hiring practices to get more faculty from certain groups apparently.

    http://www.boston.com/news/loc.....s_lacking/

  • Fluffy||

    I was in a fast food restaurant in a Massachusetts town two hours ago, and a very nicely-dressed couple was in the booth in front of mine, speaking Spanish to each other.

    When they were done and got up to leave, one of the two (an elderly woman) stopped and took some napkins from her tray and wiped off the table, so that it wouldn't be dirty for whoever used it next.

    After they left, the Swiss Family Methfreak wandered in, with their white skins, their native American English, their People of Walmart clothes and their obesity.

    I have to tell you, the Spanish speaking people were a lot closer to me in culture than the white folks.

  • sarcasmic||

    It's more likely the case that she has worked at a restaurant before.

    When I worked as a waiter I could tell when I was serving people with restaurant experience by the fact that they would pre-bus (stack up the plates, silver, and trash) the table. I do the same thing.

  • $park¥||

    Huh, I've never worked in a restaurant before but I do that all the time too. It just seems like common courtesy to me, especially if the place is really busy.

  • Fluffy||

    Yeah, she just seemed like the sort of person who was worried that someone might think she was a slob if she left the table dirty.

    But you make a good point. She could have been a former waitress, too.

  • Paul.||

    Former waitress or not, she's just good people.

  • sarcasmic||

    Oh yeah? Well a true pre-busser will clear all the trash and silver onto the top plate so the ones that are stacked have nothing on them and thus not a leaning stack ready to fall on the floor!
    Tell me tough guy! Do you stack cleared plates so they don't teeter, or do you just put the next plate on top of the previous one's silver and food? Which is it! Come on!

  • $park¥||

    Well a true pre-busser will clear all the trash and silver onto the top plate so the ones that are stacked have nothing on them and thus not a leaning stack ready to fall on the floor!

    Yep, my wife and I collect up all the empty dishes and stack them largest on bottom to smallest on top then all the silverware and napkins on the top of the heap. We also try to put the dirtiest plates on top so they don't end up with crap all over the bottom.

  • sarcasmic||

    We also try to put the dirtiest plates on top so they don't end up with crap all over the bottom.

    That doesn't really matter. Their next stop is the dish pit. Though the thought is nice.

  • $park¥||

    I just know that when I grab a plate I hate getting crap all over my hands because it was stuck to the bottom of the plate. If they're just dumping a bucket into a sink and not touching the plates anyway, well it doesn't take any extra effort on my part to arrange them anyway.

  • sarcasmic||

    The plates are going to the dishwasher who better not care about getting crap on his hands or he needs a different job.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    2 years in HS working at a Ponderosa Steakhouse - I do the same pre-bussing thing.

  • Zeb||

    My wife does that all the time. I, on the other hand, am of the opinion that not having to do that sort of thing is what I am paying for when I go to a restaurant that has table service. My brother is even more extreme, even though he works in the restaurant industry (or perhaps because he does). Every time I go out to eat with him, he looks like he is just barely restraining himself from berating the server for all the things they are doing wrong.

  • sarcasmic||

    Your brother sounds like a jerk. I'm a pretty tolerant customer. A server has to be pretty terrible to get less than a 20% tip from me.

  • Zeb||

    If he actually berated them, he'd be a jerk. He doesn't refuse to tip or anything like that. He just has high standards, which he holds himself to as well in his professional life.

    I've never worked in a restaurant, so I probably lack sympathy, but I think that if I am paying good money for food I could prepare better myself, I should at least get a decent level of service.

    I don't go to restaurants very often.

  • sarcasmic||

    If he actually berated them, he'd be a jerk.

    Fair enough.

    if I am paying good money for food I could prepare better myself

    I know what you mean. I look at it as paying for the convenience of not having to do the work or the cleanup, and not having my fridge cluttered with several odd ingredients that are for that one dish that tend to rot before they get used in something else.

    I don't go to restaurants very often.

    I hear that. Usually if I eat out it's only because we're out all day and don't have much other option.

  • $park¥||

    not having to do that sort of thing is what I am paying for when I go to a restaurant that has table service

    I'm fidgety so clearing up the table gives me something to do with my hands while I'm sitting there anyway. After I've wadded and unwadded and rewadded the straw wrapper so many times, it loses its playfulness.

  • $park¥||

    So you're not a Real American then?

  • Pro Libertate||

    There is a kind of weird meme going around about how useless just standard Americans are, which is bullshit, too. If we were that far gone, we'd have collapsed already.

  • Fluffy||

    I think what is happening is that affluent Americans have moved so much of their shopping online, and do so much of what's left at higher-end stores like Whole Foods or specialty stores, that when you have occasion to walk into a general purpose store there's nobody there except EBT card purchasers.

    That makes people think there's no one left in the world but People of WalMart, the same way that people who live in cities think all the green space in the country is gone. What's that fallacy called again? I can't remember any more.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I see it at Walmart, of course, and at some other places, but not that much. Like Target usually isn't that distressing.

  • Paul.||

    that people who live in cities think all the green space in the country is gone. What's that fallacy called again? I can't remember any more.

    Stupid. It's called Stupid.

  • Sidd Finch||

    availability bias?

  • RightNut||

    After they left, the Swiss Family Methfreak wandered in, with their white skins, their native American English, their People of Walmart clothes and their obesity.

    Not sure if its common slang but the colloquial term is Mass hicks. I used to have similar experiences when I worked as a clerk.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Are you sure they weren't Swamp Yankees?

  • $park¥||

    I've never heard "Mass hicks" or "Swiss Family Methfreak." We usually just call them white trash out here in Western Mass.

  • RightNut||

    Its another world.

  • sarcasmic||

    Here in Maine we just call them massholes.

  • Paul.||

    Every country has a city they make fun of. In America, they make fun of Cleveland. In Russia, we make fun of Cleveland.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Fluffy,

    When they were done and got up to leave, one of the two (an elderly woman) stopped and took some napkins from her tray and wiped off the table, so that it wouldn't be dirty for whoever used it next.


    Interesting! I tend to do that - clean up after myself and my family - especially because my children eat like baby chickens!

    And I have seen what you talk about, but the slobbish behavior is not limited to overweight whites only.... and I'll say no more.

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    We like Chinese food. When my kids were small, the table and surrounding area looked like a wedding had just taken place. Unfortunately, we did not usually have a broom with us.

  • vopiwobypacA3||

    Scarlett. I agree that Angela`s artlclee is astonishing... yesterday I picked up a top of the range Ford Mustang from having earned $5249 this - five weeks past and-over, 10 grand last-munth. this is definitely the most rewarding Ive had. I actually started 9-months ago and immediately brought home at least $86 per-hour. I use the details on this website.... grand4.com
    (Go to site and open "Home" for details)

  • ||

    After they left, the Swiss Family Methfreak wandered in, with their white skins, their native American English, their People of Walmart clothes and their obesity.

    How can you be an obese methfreak?

  • Fluffy||

    A good point.

    They probably weren't meth freaks, since they were definitely fat.

    But you know that sickly, "no teef lef' in mah mouf", destroyed-skin look that meth freaks have? They had that look, too. Just with fat bodies.

    Am I a bad person because I judged them for the way that they looked?

  • $park¥||

    Am I a bad person because I judged them for the way that they looked?

    Yes. But the fact that they acted like slobs too at least justified your initial bad decision.

  • sgs||

    I thought the deal was that you come here and build a life, even if you're broke, stupid, fat, ugly, or whatever.

    If they can build a life, and get along, why is their intelligence an issue?

  • ||

    Because, "I got mine, fuck you, that's why."

  • sarcasmic||

    That was the case back when it was a free country. Now a person must ask permission and take orders to be allowed to engage in economic activity. Free enterprise is dead, along with the American Dream.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Yep. "Conservatives" aren't above social engineering.

  • sarcasmic||

    I don't think conservatives are for social engineering as much as they are standard politicians who give out favors to their rent-seeking cronies.

  • Sidd Finch||

    If they can build a life, and get along, why is their intelligence an issue?

    IQ is a the best predictor of 'building a life' and 'getting along.' If IQ were uncorrelated with those things, nobody would care about it.

  • Fluffy||

    Actually, IQ correlates with upper levels of success, but if we're talking about "getting along", that correlates more strongly with non-IQ personality traits like diligence and the willingness to show up.

  • Sidd Finch||

    And both of those are strongly correlated with IQ.

  • Fluffy||

    Citation please.

  • Sidd Finch||

    IQ is well-known to be strongly predictive of almost every kind of good outcome. You need to present evidence that 'diligence' and 'willingness to show up' are unique.

  • Redmanfms||

    IQ is well-known to be strongly predictive of almost every kind of good outcome.

    So, no cite then?

  • Sidd Finch||

  • Paul.||

    that correlates more strongly with non-IQ personality traits like diligence and the willingness to show up.

    Like your average Employee of the Month.

  • sgs||

    "IQ is a the best predictor of 'building a life' and 'getting along.'"

    No, actually, it really isn't.

    In fact, IQ often correlates with much higher reports of dissatisfaction and social isolation.

  • Sidd Finch||

    If it isn't, what is?

  • Steve G||

    I've read EQ is more meaningful.

  • sgs||

    And more to the point, that's totally irrelevant.

    Even if IQ correlated with 'building a life' and 'getting along' which it doesn't, we are results oriented.

  • RightNut||

    Wasn't their a study a few years ago that showed that groups normally thought of as smart(Jews, east Asians) actually have similar IQs to everyone else, but that the strong tradition of education in those groups was worth 4-6 IQ points?

    I'd google it but kinda busy at the moment.

  • Sidd Finch||

    no

  • Steve G||

    “Group differences in intelligence do exist,” he writes, but “that does not mean that any individual should ever be judged on the basis of group membership.” This exactly. Even if you believe the whole bell curve stuff, it leads to a 'so what?' moment since you never know if you're dealing w/ an average [insert race], a std dev up or a std dev down. Judge the individual...

  • sarcasmic||

    If forced to choose between someone with a low IQ with common sense or a liberal with a high IQ... That's a no-brainer.

  • $park¥||

    I see what you did there.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    Exactly,its just another bullshit abstract aggregation of stats like everything else. And the groups themselves move up over time as they get wealthier.

    Many 'smart" groups were actually not that smart in their own countries, and they had low IQs when they came to the US, a few decades or so later they were higher than the average. The whole "Is it genetic or environmental" false dichotomy is pure bullshit-the answer is that they are both so intertwined that it is impossible to say where one begins and where one ends. Wealthier societies or cultures produce enough wealth to have people commit time to engage in abstract reasoning, a lot of the FLynn effect is based on that-IQ is downstream from wealth creation because the wealth liberates people to engage in more mentally demanding exercises.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    At this point, I would like to nominate Richwine for "Most Likely to Spend His Weekends Wearing a Poet's Shirt at a Renaissance Fair".

  • kinnath||

    Tunic and tankard of mead.

  • ||

    Bryan Caplan over at EconLog had the best comment on this subject:

    "In a just world, however, researchers would be fired for arguing that people with below-average IQs should be denied their basic human right to accept a job offer from any willing employer."

    http://econlog.econlib.org/arc.....world.html

  • fish_remote||

    Not sure that merely offering an opinion or investigating an issue should ever get anyone fired from anything.

  • ||

    Well, supposing we're firing people for having abhorrent views, which view is really more abhorrent? (A) Arguing that differences in intelligence exist, or (B) arguing that differences in intelligence should determine what your human rights are?

  • fish_remote||

    arguing that differences in intelligence should determine what your human rights are?

    I'm not sure it can be argued that admission to a nation state is a human right. They already are in a nation state if I'm not mistaken.

  • Calidissident||

    If you're talking about citizenship, yeah you could make that argument. But if we're just talking about freedom to move, buy/rent property, work a certain job (and of course all these freedoms also include the freedom of the people on the other end of the transaction), I don't think that holds water

  • DarrenM||

    Not sure that merely offering an opinion or investigating an issue should ever get anyone fired from anything.

    If we wanted you to have an opinion, we would have given you one!

  • ||

    Not sure that merely offering an opinion or investigating an issue should ever get anyone fired from anything.

    Pretty sure that offering certain opinions should get people fired. One has the right to the opinion but not the right to the job, right?

  • Sidd Finch||

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Excellent, so how soon can I start hiring retards to work in my monocle factory for a Happy Meal a day?

  • Almanian!||

    When you can pry them from the clutches of MY gold Goblet manufacturing facility...slowpoke!

    MWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!

  • KPres||

    This is why I hate weak-kneed, pussified libertarians like Caplan. What he should have written was this:

    "In a just world, however, researchers would be fired for arguing that people with below-average IQs should be denied their basic human right to accept a job offer from any willing employer."

  • Hawk Spitui||

  • Jules||

    Heh @ that being a basic human right. What if multinational corporations wanted to hire loads of below minimum wage Palestinians to work in Israel?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Are Hispanics Too Stupid to Become Americans?

    Considering how dumb the general public is, I'm not sure how you could possibly be too stupid to become American.

  • ||

    Yet again, reasonoid elitism. A strong similarity I constantly see between liberals and H&R Denizens - putting the American people down, calling them stupid, etc.

  • GILMORE||

    here here!

    Europeans are at least as equally stupid!! Have you ever read comments on YouTube?

  • Fluffy||

    Our problem is that most comments from Europeans sound only as stupid as American comments...and those Europeans aren't writing in their native languages.

    Or in some cases, native alphabets.

    If you use somebody else's language and alphabet and eke out a tie, that's pretty significant.

  • Fluffy||

    Dude, I think it's beyond dispute that some significant percentage of people are stupid.

    There's nothing wrong with believing that elites exist. It's only morally problematic to believe that elites should rule. Or that they should possess special legal privileges.

  • ||

    I think thats ridiculous. Most people are not "dumb" or "stupid". I realize that's a reasonoid sacred truth, the typical "90% of the populace are stupid" bla bla.

    I've spent too much time dealing with average people, from trailer parks to mansions, in all sorts of situations, to buy into the "people are dumb". I think it's the kind of dismissive elitism that hurts the libertarian cause (nobody likes a snob) as well as just plain being factual nonsense. The average american may not be as educated as you are, or as wonkish on topic a, b, or x. But that's a far cry from saying they are stupid. I love and respect people in general and I don't think the average american is stupid. I see tons of evidence to the contrary.

  • Almanian!||

    I've spent too much time dealing with average people, from trailer parks to mansions, in all sorts of situations, to buy into the idea that? "people are not dumb".

    YMMV

    This is why the n=1 of "my anecdote is" is interesting, but not much more.

  • ||

    the kind of dismissive elitism

    You mean like calling something a "reasonoid sacred truth"? The dismissive elitism is telling.

  • ||

    lol. Try a dictionary. Saying the American people are dumb IS dimissive elitism. Pointing it out is not.

  • ||

    Being a self-righteous bastard over a few people disagreeing with you IS dismissive elitism you hypocritical fuck. You can never just SAY something, you always have to show what a shining light of civilization and reason you are compared to the unenlightened sorts you descend from above to argue with.

  • Restoras||

    darius, if you could shoot him with impunity like he can do to you, you'd be the same way. Just sayin'...

  • sarcasmic||

    you always have to show what a shining light of civilization and reason you are compared to the unenlightened sorts you descend from above to argue with.

    Of course he does. He's a cop. That's what they do. That's why it's unwise to argue to a cop's face unless you want him to break yours. They're always right, and if you disagree you're asking for violence.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Intelligence is distributed according to a left bounded gaussian curve (there is a hard minimum, but no hard maximum on the levels of possible intelligence). The median of such a distribution is always less than the mean, so it necessarily follows that most people have below average intelligence.

  • Ted S.||

    Dude, I think it's beyond dispute that some significant percentage of people are stupid.

    They're called "police". ;-)

    [/sarcasm]

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Calling them "civilians"...

  • Almanian!||

    derp

    thanks for commenting, officer einstein.

  • ||

    lol. Unlike the others here, I'm not the one spouting elitist nonsense about how the average american is dumb. I respect the intelligence of the average american.

  • Almanian!||

    And of course no on else does, because of a oomment on a blog.

    Thank you officer concern troll.

    Srsly - have a good weekend, dunphy :)

  • ||

    It's not a concern troll thing. It's a constantly repeated comment here and I think it says a lot about intellectual immaturity, and a lot of other insecurities "Americans are dumb" bla bla bla.

  • Almanian!||

    whatever

    Have a good weekend anyway

  • Restoras||

    Right. You only believe in elitism for the jackboots in blue.

    Fuck off.

  • Zeb||

    It's not just Americans. Everyone's stupid. And I, at least, am semi-joking when I say that. The "everyone who disagrees with me must be stupid"
    thing is annoying and false. But on the other hand, someone with a 100 IQ isn't all that smart. And half of people are below that.

    I think that people in general are great. That doesn't mean they are all terribly smart. Pointing out that a relatively small portion of the population is very intelligent is not "putting the American people down" per se.

  • ||

    Except that's moving the goalposts. Saying they are not "very intelligent" i s not the same thing as saying they are "dumb' or "stupid" which is the claim CONSTANTLY repeated here

    just like DU.

  • Zeb||

    Nah. I'm just erecting my own goalposts. You don't get to tell me which goalposts to use.

  • ||

    You don't get to tell me which goalposts to use.

    But I do. QUIDDITCH ONLY! And not any of that sissy "on-the-ground" stuff. You'll have to find some REAL flying broomsticks.

  • $park¥||

    Average Americans aren't stupid, they're, by definition, average. 50% of the population (I'll go 45% if you want to included 5% on either side of the bell in the average) are below average. To someone that is significantly above average, the below average are, in fact, dumb. That doesn't make them horrible people, they're just below average.

  • sarcasmic||

    To someone that is significantly above average, the below average are, in fact, dumb.

    Exactly. Since the average cop has a barely above average IQ, the below average don't appear as dumb as they would to the average libertarian since the gap is much smaller.

  • Steve G||

    Wait, wasn't there story recently about having a high IQ was a bar to police employment???

  • ||

    I think the real issue here is one of language. "Stupid", "dumb", "idiot", have all gained a sort of slang meanings of "foolish" and "incompetent", in addition to the meaning about "intelligence". People all over the place can be incredibly foolish, regardless of their intelligence. Supposedly "smart" people can say some of the "dumbest" things, and as general mental competence comprises both "intelligence" (or multiple "intelligences", maybe) and "wisdom", we've come to call people who act in foolish ways or say foolish things things as "stupid", when the officially-recognized meaning isn't always what we mean

  • Sidd Finch||

    Supposedly "smart" people can say some of the "dumbest" things

    I think really smart people are the only ones capable of saying the dumbest things. Stupid people have all kinds of stupid ideas about society and human nature, but none of those ideas are as breathtakingly stupid as Marxism.

  • Ted S.||

    I think the real issue here is one of language.

    There's a big difference between a wise man and a wise guy.

  • DarrenM||

    Yes. 80% of people of of below average intelligence, or something...

  • Stormy Dragon||

    BTW, does anyone else remember when the Right used to celebrate individual talent and competence? Of all the things I hate the Tea Party for is corrupting the right with this BS populist celebration of lowest common denominator.

    It's not even feel-good "everyone is equally important" crap you see on the left. A lot of times it seems like they think that the less idea you have what you're talking about makes you even MORE important your voice becomes, because demanding expertise and competence is just the way "the elite" keeps "real americans" down.

  • Generic Stranger||

    It's more team bullshit. The progressives staked out their claim on "intellectualism" (which, as practiced by progressives, isn't all that intelligent, but that's a different rant), so the conservatives reacted with anti-intellectualism. Had the conservatives invaded the higher education system and staked their claim to intellectualism first, then it would be the progtards who'd be the anti-intellectuals.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Yeah, a lot of lefties were pretty anti-intellectual up until they took over academia.

    Hell, look at Pol Pot.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Of all the things I hate the Tea Party for is corrupting the right with this BS populist celebration of lowest common denominator.

    Fuck you elistist douche.

    What the tea party hates is faux intellectuals that have seized control of academia.

    The dumbest fucks in America can be found on universities. In and out of the faculty.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Except they aren't fighting bad liberal intellectuals with better conservative intellectuals. They're fighting bad liberal intellectuals by telling us that "common sense" and "listening to your gut" trumps actual expertise.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yeah, this is just a continuation of the decades old socialist meme that the left is smart and the right is dumb

    The truth is that people at all levels on the right use more intelligent arguments, evince more intellectual curiosity and are more receptive to new information than people on the left. George Bush was demonstrably more intelligent than John Kerry or Al Gore and Palin is more intelligent than Obama; but the media driven impressions held by most people are exactly opposite of that reality.

    You are demonstrating the same lazy thinking of your leftist comrades in equating higher ed credentials with actual expertise and intelligence. It's become apparent to everyone outside your bubble that most credentialed intellectuals are the stupidest people in America.

  • Rasilio||

    Lol most Americans are too stupid to be Americans. Just look at who we vote for and what we watch on TV

  • Drake||

    What the hell, we let in my ancestors - Mics, Wops, Krauts, Polaks - all the scum and rejects of the Old World. We even forcibly imported Africans too stupid to avoid slavers.

    What difference at this point does it make?

  • A Serious Man||

    The more I think about it the more I realize that my ancestors on both sides of my family were here before most of y'all. French-Canadians that arrived in the 1607 and Mestizo Mexicans.

  • Drake||

    I'm supposedly Cherokee or Chickasaw or something - no matter what Ancestry.com says.

  • ||

    *if* hispanics from mexico who were illegally immigrating had lower IQ's on average, it would probably be attributable to malnutritition, especially during youth. It's been shown that malnutrition stunts growth - both physiologically and mentally. I would assume the Mexicans that are crossing our border illegally come primarily from the poorer income quintiles, who would be more likely to have poor diets. Not saying that his IQ theory is correct, but lack of decent nutrition could certainly account for SOME IQ differences, regardless of race.

  • ||

    e.g.

    http://www.bioline.org.br/pdf?rb07013

    "Malnutrition leads to indirect losses in productivity from poor cognitive
    development and schooling. Low birthweight may reduce a person’s
    IQ by 5 percentage points, stunting may reduce it by 5 to 11 points, and
    iodine deficiency by as much as 10 to 15 points.14 Iron deficiency anemia consistently
    reduces performance on tests of mental abilities (including IQ) by
    8 points or 0.5 to 1.5 standard deviations in children.15
    Growth failure before the age of two, anemia during the first two years
    of life, and iodine deficiency in the womb can have profound and irreversible
    effects on a child’s ability to learn.16 Malnutrition in Zimbabwe
    has been calculated to reduce lifetime earnings by 12 percent because of its
    effect on schooling.17"

    http://siteresources.worldbank.....egyCh1.pdf

  • ||

    stunting 5 to 11 points. THAT is statistically significant IQ changes

    oh, also

    http://www.unicef.org/sowc98/panel3.htm

  • Jules||

    Except after 4 generations you still get a major gap (Ortiz & Telles).

    Also, controlling for SES you get gaps too.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/w.....cation.png

  • GILMORE||

    Ronald Bailey Asks If Hispanics Are Too Stupid to Become Americans

    I forget taking the "Test to Prove Competence at Being American"

    Was it the one with the keg-funnel-headstand thing?

  • Almanian!||

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! PARTYYYYYYY....

    *BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARF*

    w...wwwwooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

  • Almanian!||

    I'm afraid of Americans
    I'm afraid of the world
    I'm afraid I can't help it
    I'm afraid I can't

  • Almanian!||

    PS Sorry if this was upthread ad I missed it, but I gotta say....

    EYYYY TUKK RRRR JERRBSZZ!

  • Acosmist||

    You're seriously comparing fully nourished Mexicans to undernourished Irish.

    So the libertarians join the War on Science. Greaaaaaat.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The average Irishman was undernourished in 1972?

  • Ted S.||

    Gallons and gallons of whiskey and pounds of potatoes constitutes good nourishment? :-)

  • Steve G||

    undernourished Irish: sober??

  • ||

    “Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential” - Winston Churchill
    Intelligence helps but I have seen a lot of lazy smart people. I also have friends who barely graduated high school who later became very successful.
    The truly dangerous are the people who know they are intelligent. This is the group where our “Top Men” come from.

  • $park¥||

    The truly dangerous are the people who know they are intelligent.

    Don't forget the group of people who are so dumb they think they're smart. I think they turn into top level lackeys.

  • G-dub||

    Law enforcement agencies are sorely in need of more stupid people. I say let them in. Send us your dim, your slow, your bungling morons yearning to drool free.

  • DarrenM||

    If we treated people as individuals instead of members of special groups, IQ would be irrelevant.

  • AlgerHiss||

    People streaming up from South and Central America are not your “freedom and liberty” types: They have no problem with big, mammoth government.

    They’ll wear Che Guevera tee-shirts to their Shining Path meetings with glee.

  • Sevo||

    AlgerHiss| 5.17.13 @ 4:03PM |#
    "People streaming up from South and Central America are not your “freedom and liberty” types: They have no problem with big, mammoth government.
    They’ll wear Che Guevera tee-shirts to their Shining Path meetings with glee."{

    Most voters in San Francisco do exactly the same; do you have a point?

  • Ted Levy||

    Are Hispanics Too Stupid to Become Americans?

    Or too smart...?

  • KPres||

    Well, they have been immigrating less recently. Seems they're smart enough to recognize the budding dystopia this country is becoming.

  • KPres||

    Who cares about their IQ? The only condition should be their SQ (statist-quotient).

  • ||

    http://www.photius.com/ranking.....ranks.html

    http://talk.collegeconfidentia.....untry.html

    Those rankings have it different from the article.

    Not that I know anything about this sort of stuff.

  • ||

  • Sevo||

    Hey, I'm just here to see if 'Murcan has checked in.
    I looked up-thread a good long ways; did I miss him? Pretty sure he'd have something to say about this if he was smart enough to find the thread...

  • Flemur||

    Congrats on actually reading what Richwine wrote and not getting a case of the vapors, like a couple of other Reason authors.

    "Perlman concludes that “Mexican economic assimilation may take more time—four or five generations rather than three or four.” Possibly so."

    I love it when people predict the future, because it's already been that long and that future is already past:

    From G Cochran, who was funded by Unz:
    "Is a book (Generations of Exclusion) by two UCLA sociologists, Vila Ortiz and Edward E Telles, published in 2008. It originated in a fair-sized data set (1576 people) collected in 1965, which was rediscovered in 1992. The original respondents and their adult children were interviewed. It shows quite clearly that although second-generation Mexican-Americans averaged more education and higher SES than the first generation, presumably because they knew English, there was no further improvement in the third and fourth generations. The gap remained substantial: the fourth generation had a college completion rate of 6%, compared to a rate of 35% for whites of that same era.

    Which is pretty much what you see in New Mexico too, except that here we’re often talking about the fifth, sixth, and seventh generation living in the US."

  • Flemur||

    ...continued...
    ("No more than 2 links"? That's bogus)

    Also cochran, response to Unz:
    www.theamericanconservative.co.....-response/
    "In each case, look for a few crumbs of data that support your thesis and ignore all the rest."

    More Cochran on Unz:
    Of course I banned him, and good riddance. He’s a waste of time. As a friend with a fair amount of experience said, Ron is impervious to reason.
    I mean, he comes with up wrong ideas about everything, and then he goes on and on forever, arguing like a possessed lawyer. Who needs that?"

    hbdchick.wordpress.com/
    2012/08/06/
    the-case-of-the-missing-irish-iq-data/
    "the case of the missing irish iq data"

    occidentalascent.wordpress.com/
    2012/07/26/
    hispanic-performance-by-generation/
    "On re-analysis, Ron Unz’s claim concerning the difference in the GSS sample was upheld; this claim, though, was contradicted by all other samples." Two of the studies, the GSS and Add health, allowed Hispanic scores to be decomposed by nationality. For both studies I compared the Hispanics (aggregated) and Mexican scores. For third generation individuals no significant differences was found; this wasn’t surprising as Mexicans constitute over 2/3rds of third+ generation Hispanics."

  • Sevo||

    Yes, Flemur, I see references to one link or another and a bunch of conditional clauses, but WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

  • Jules||

    The analysis by Unz doesn't withstand scrutiny unfortunately.

    1. a statistically significant correlation can be found between birth year and scores for some of the nations which Lynn has provided data for, but Ireland, at this time, is not one of them.

    2. There is no evidence of a Hispanic Flynn effect if you go through 14 nationally representative samples ( PISA 2009, PISA 2006, TIMSS 2007, PIRLS 2006, PIRLS 2001, ADD Health, GSS, NLSY 79, NLSY 97, CNLSY, NAEP Main, NAEP Long term, High School Transcript Study, and NELS).

    http://theunsilencedscience.bl.....ffect.html

    3. The The largest analysis to date was conducted by Roth et al (2001). A meta-analytic general intelligence gap of 0.72 SD was found for the 70s through 90s:

    Looking at 3rd generation and beyond Hispanic scores: The differences ranges from 0.35 SD (GSS) to 0.77 SD (TIMSS grade 8 science). The average of the differences comes out to 0.61 SD or, when averaging PISA, TIMSS, and PIRLS tests scores per year, per grade (e.g., PISA 2009 MAth + Reading), 0.59 SD. This is not largely different from the general intelligence difference reported by Roth et al. (2001).

  • FatDrunkAndStupid||

    Articles like this are one of the reasons people hate Cosmotarians. What planet do you come from where you can argue with a straight face that Mestizo Mexicans as a group have even remotely similar intelligence levels as American whites? And all this, "well, it will just take a few generations"? Mexicans have been here since before America was even founded. Have any of you ever been to New Mexico? Southern California? If their IQ was going to equalize, it would have done so a long time ago. Where are all the Mexican scientists in New Mexico? The Mexican science and engineering professors at the elite universities in California? The Mexican computer programers working at Google? There aren't even any damn Mexicans in Hollywood for God's sake. Mexicans are, and will for the foreseeable future remain an underclass- no different than the blacks. If you support open immigration and believe the entire population of the world should be allowed in the USA if they so desire, then make that argument. But don't pretend that a Mexican is equal to a Swede in terms of desirability as a fellow countryman.

    The problem you guys have is you are slaves to political correctness. There is nothing "racist" about admitting Mexicans have lower IQ's. There is nothing "racist" about saying if we are going to have a regulated immigration system, Northern Europeans should be given priority, and after them Asians and if we have any room left over we can let in the rest.

  • Hawk Spitui||

    Anyone who's own IQ is greater than room temperature can collect their own data set by taking a quick drive through L.A. and comparing the poor Hispanic immigrant neighborhoods against the poor Asian immigrant neighborhoods. But, of course, clarity isn't the point of this kind of article, the point is to spray squid ink over what everyone who isn't blind with sunglasses on and a has a functioning brain in their head can see with their own lyin' eyes, none of which takes a PhD from Harvard to interpret.

  • dstarke||

    These questions always lead back to the question, "What is the basis for American exceptionalism? (which of course begs the question "Is America exceptional?")
    A number of people have attempted to answer that question and four main answers come to mind: 1) We just happened onto a form of government / economic system which magically makes us better than our peers, 2) we have taken advantage of a particularly abundant set of natural resource, 3) we are geopolitically isolated and needed not to spend vast amount of our time and treasure defending ourselves, 4) immigrants who struggle to obtain a better life and more freedom are, on the average, more intelligent and capable of the specie.
    Note that for all of these, the current government is trying to suppress these potential advantages, degrading constitutional government, restricting use of natural resources, binding us to the security of other nations, removing the struggle necessary to obtain citizenship.

    This then is the task incumbent on those who seek to defend and maintain American exceptionalism. What is responsible for America's relative strength and vitality among world systems? And how can we stop shooting ourselves in the foot in maintaining it?

  • M||

    "..as Unz’s analysis of Lynn and Vanhanen’s data shows, the average IQ of a population can change in a generation"

    Unz did not "show" any such thing, nor did he conduct any "analysis". He started out with his desired conclusion - that the average IQ of a population can change within a generation - then cherrypicked data which supported that conclusion and dismissed all the data which contradicted it.

    Besides, can the pro-immigration side pick one argument and stick with it? You can't argue out of one side of your mouths that everyone on Earth has the same intelligence and that only a racist would say otherwise, and argue out of the other side of your mouths that sure, Hispanics have a lower IQ at present - but don't worry because that can change in a hurry!

  • M||

    Back in the days of Prop 187 the "free market" libertarian movement fought like wildcats to preserve welfare for illegal immigrants. I think that says all that needs to be said about the honesty and intellectual consistency of the libertarian movement. For all the BS it spouts, it's only true guiding principle is "Whatever the wealthy want is good".

  • dinkster||

    The thesis is invalid because "IQ" is a false premise off the bat. MRI and neuron counting are more legitimate ways to learn human capacity.

  • buybuydandavis||

    That there is a more accurate way does not make the less accurate way a "false premise". The less accurate way is as accurate as it is, no more and no less.

  • buybuydandavis||

    " Richwine wants instead to give intelligence tests to individual prospective immigrants from wherever they may hail and to let the smartest ones in. "

    If Richwine is suggesting individual testing for IQ for immigrants, how did the article turn into ranting about race differences?

    The relevant question is what purpose we ascribe to immigration limits, and whether those purposes are furthered by filtering immigrants with IQ tests.

    Of course it's considered evil by Reason staff to have any immigration limits at all. Fine. Objection noted.

    But for those who believe in some limits, the question then becomes the basis for those limits. Fairness? Rescuing the poor and down trodden? Contribution to society, economic and otherwise?

    Unskilled, uneducated, unintelligent people are likely to be more of a burden than a benefit to those already here. Those who want a larger dependent underclass will want more of them, and those who don't, will want less. End of story.

    Nothing to do with racism. Different individuals provide different net benefit. Do we want to filter potential citizens by net benefit, or not? Nothing more complicated than that.

  • jhoughton1||

    I'm curious -- who in this country, of either red or blue stripe, actually wants a larger dependent underclass? I don't see that in anyone's rhetoric or actions.

  • vopiwobypacA3||

    Scarlett. I agree that Angela`s artlclee is astonishing... yesterday I picked up a top of the range Ford Mustang from having earned $5249 this - five weeks past and-over, 10 grand last-munth. this is definitely the most rewarding Ive had. I actually started 9-months ago and immediately brought home at least $86 per-hour. I use the details on this website.... grand4.com
    (Go to site and open "Home" for details)

  • jhoughton1||

    What I'm taking away from this is that the way the question is put, "Are Hispanics too stupid..?" is insulting and has the issue backwards, anyway. It's not a matter of being stupid. It's a matter of being unprepared to jump in and become part of an economy that no longer has myriad jobs for illiterate people with strong backs. Besides, we are growing our own crop of illiterates, thank you very much, and Dog knows what we're going to do with them.

  • HenryC||

    Everyone is an individual. The variability of intelligence between individuals dwarfs the variability between races. There are some Hispanics that will be a drag on our society, but some of those will be the smart lazy ones.

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