No, Lawrence, There Is No Stimulus

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell gets a lump of coal for fibbing about government job creation.

The commercial seems like a parody, but that sure looks like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC’s Last Word. In the spot O’Donnell addresses politicians who say that “government can’t create jobs.”

“The government created your job!” O’Donnell fires back, smiling triumphantly.

Imagine: In a battle of wits with a phantom politician, O’Donnell lost. Of course he doesn’t know it.

On the off-chance this is not a Saturday Night Live bit, let’s take a closer look.

First — I don’t even know where to start – it’s so ridiculous. How about this? The claim that government can’t create real jobs is not refuted by the existence of politicians. Must that really be explained?

Perhaps O’Donnell would applaud a proposal to make every adult American a member of Congress, paid a salary drawn on the Federal Reserve. Unemployment would vanish overnight. (With the Internet we could all vote on bills from home.)

But maybe that wouldn’t satisfy O'Donnell. He might want at least some people working to make useful things. What do politicians make? Besides messes.

Widgets or Wudgets?

Here’s where it gets tricky. Alas we live in a world of scarcity. People making widgets can’t also be making wudgets (a similar but not identical product). Should the government create widget-making jobs or wudget-making jobs? Or neither. If some of each, how many? And how would the program administrators even go about making the decision?

In a freed market a process exists for answering those questions. Prices generated by free consumer purchases and producer competition for inputs guide decisions about what to make, how to make it, and in what quantities. In contrast, government “job creation” is like flying in a heavy fog without instruments: The tools of economic calculation, as Ludwig von Mises called them — that is, prices — are lacking.

It has to be said yet again: In economic terms, a “job” is not mere physical or mental exertion for which one gets a paycheck. Pharaoh’s pyramid builders did not really have jobs in an economic sense. The only consumer being satisfied was the Pharaoh, and he stole his wealth. As someone once put it, “A thing cannot have value, if it is not a useful article. If it is not useful, then the labor it contains is also useless, does not count as labor and hence does not create value.”

Does not count as labor, Mr. O’Donnell.

Karl Marx said that. Yes, Mr. O’Donnell, Karl Marx understood that exertion aimed at making things no one wants is not real labor. When I say “things no one wants,” I don’t mean intrinsically useless things. We live in a world of scarcity. If we consumers believe we have enough widgets but not enough wudgets, then efforts to produce more widgets at the cost of wudgets are counterproductive. Inputs are transformed into things we want less badly (if at all) than other things those inputs could have been transformed into. Value is destroyed when it could have been created.

A Matter of Luck

Admittedly, it is technically wrong to say, “Government cannot create jobs.” We must concede there is some slim chance that a government program could finance a project that would have been undertaken in the freed market. But it would be pure luck, and we couldn’t know for sure it had happened even after the fact, because government, which procures its resources at the point of a gun and doesn’t have to offer its “services” to consumers free to say no, faces no market test. We wouldn’t know what more-preferred products were forgone due to government preemption.

Since whatever resources government consumes in its quixotic job-creation exploits must first be taken from others, even if the government were to get lucky and create a few jobs, it would still come at the expense of others. Scarcity strikes again. It doesn’t matter if the government taxes, borrows, or prints the money. In each case real resources are transferred from the private economy to politicians who have no way of intentionally doing anything economically useful with them. (Doing politically useful things is another matter entirely.)

Persistent unemployment does not demonstrate a need for government to create jobs. On the contrary, it demonstrates a need for government to get out of the way so the market process can undergo the correction called for by the earlier government-induced boom, which itself was an unsustainable jobs-creation program. The politicians aggravate an already bad situation when they generate a tax and regulatory environment in which anything can happen.

Living in an echo chamber as television pundits do, it’s unlikely this message will penetrate to O’Donnell. But just in case:

Lawrence, you’re a smart fellow. Don’t settle for cheap debating points. Push yourself a little.

Sheldon Richman is editor of The Freeman, where this article originally appeared.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • dennis||

    Sheldon Richman is one of my favorite libertarians. I just wish he would see that Maddow, O'Donnel and company are every bit as repulsive as Hannity and O'Reilly. I don't think Richman has anything nice to say about the loathsome Paul Krugman, which is nice.

  • Sheldon Richman||

    I agree with you!

  • yonemoto||

    "We must concede there is some slim chance that a government program could finance a project that would have been undertaken in the freed market. But it would be pure luck..."

    Come on, now, it's definitely possible for government to finance socially productive projects, and by more than just 'luck'. In the long run, though, giving government that power will lead to more waste and abuse, even if there are occasionally good examples.

  • Fibertarianism Exposed||

    Everybody hates a liar. Even libertarian liars.

    Fibertarians constantly bellyache about "Statism" and "Statists."

    Yet, when White Indian shows up, Libertarians put the city-Statist KOCH in their mouth and start sucking HARD!

    Watch:

    RON: "so which would you like to be destroyed living with mother nature or survive with the rest of us in our city state."
    http://reason.com/archives/201.....nt_2714959

    POETRY: "...the advent of the city-State really wasn't that big of a leap from this. People realized that they were more likely to have better lives..."
    http://reason.com/archives/201.....nt_2714986

    I think Paul Krugman would be proud of these Libertarian Statist KOCHsuckers.

    Maybe da Krug'll even give his Fibertarian domesticated poodles a reach-a-round!

    LOL

  • Nanny-Statist Libertardian||

    But you'd get eaten by a bear in the woods, dearie.

    City-Statism is for the safety of the children too. Can't have them playing in the woods like savages, dearie.

  • Paul Krugman||

    I heartily endorse all city-Statism by my Libertarian Comrades!

    Rebellious savages like White Indian should be slaughtered, just like Stalin did to the nomadic herders who wouldn't integrate into glorious agricultural city-Statism (civilization)!

    P.S. Stalin greatly admired the Indian concentration camps that capitalism devised to deal with the savages. City-Statism, onward!

  • Capitalism||

    Yup, that was me all right...

  • Xenocles||

    It's pronounced "coke."

  • WI = Paid $OROS troll.||

    Never a bad word for the patron.

  • ||

    I doubt he is paid. If I were to pay someone to post "for me" it wouldn't be a person of such manifest stupidity.

  • thirtyandseven||

    yea, but then you aren't George Soros.

  • White Indian||

    I'm sorry, Reason. I'm jusy pissy because nobody stuffed my pink stocking with something hard and black.

  • Mitch||

    Don't be diming out how George Soros in inadequete down there sugar....He's paying you enough to troll here.

  • wareagle||

    how sad that he, or anyone like him, actually has to write such an article. It's like having to tell someone that water is wet and the sun rises in the East.

  • warmongers are city-statists||

  • RandomJerk||

    GM's next new vehicle is called a "wudget"?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    A post about an inconsequential MSNBC talker? What did we do to deserve this lump of coal?

  • fish||

    We are being punished for engaging White Idiot on all those GAMBOLING threads.

  • Nanny-Statist Libertardian||

    We'll have that wild fellow WI persuaded of the safety of voluntary city-Statism (civilization) soon, and if he doesn't accept it, then we'll wound him in his knee.

  • Whiterun Indian||

    I used to post stupid primitivist bullshit all day long, then I took an arrow in the knee.

  • ||

    I don't understand why you people insist on giving me your life stories just because I happened to brush against you on the way to saving the world.

  • This Dave||

    Posting primitivist comments on the Internet=
    Primitivism Fail

  • Sheldon Richman||

    He says what many others believe, and readers sometimes ask how to respond to the fallacies he speaks.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Fair enough. You caught a little of the disdain I have for O'Donnell. He's close to unwatchable.

  • Vake||

    Unfortunately, this "inconsequential MSNBC talker" probably has hundreds of thousands of viewers, silently nodding their head as he spews his economic ignorance.

  • Nanny-Statist Libertardian||

    Now, now, dearie, MSNBC has a host of good city-Statist (civilization) domesticated boyz. Would you rather gambol about plain and forest with White Indian?

  • Lorenzo||

    Remember that time O'donnell got so angry and befuddled he actually befouled himself on live television? Okay, it may not have happened -- yet.

  • cw||

    Who created Lawrence O'Donnell's Job?

    Good f-ing question.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Someone with more money than sense.

  • ||

    I'll take a federal created job like the WPA and CCC over anything created by a blood-sucking exploitative capitalist. If "government" can't create jobs, what are all these politicians doing in Washington DC?

  • fish||

    If "government" can't create jobs, what are all these politicians doing in Washington DC?

    Eating the corpse.

  • wareagle||

    I'll take a federal created job like the WPA and CCC over anything created by a blood-sucking exploitative capitalist.
    --------------------------
    so you would prefer to be a leech on the taxpayer's ass rather than working for a company that provides a product/service that consumers actually want. Thanks for clearing that up. Obama thanks you for your vote next fall and O'Donnell appreciates your patronage. Not to mention your ignorance.

  • Tony||

    And who really wants an education or having their house fire put out or beating the Nazis?

  • Jeffersonian||

    Why would we want to beat the Nazis, Tony? They were gay totalitarians.

  • Tony||

    They were good at organizing things.

  • Jeffersonian||

    I knew you'd see the light.

  • Tony||

    Let's not forget those incredibly stylish uniforms.

  • fish||

    Maybe Tony is using "beating" differently than that in common language!

    Just saying.

  • me||

    70% of firefighters are volunteers

  • ||

    I know, all those selfless government paid firefighters would never let someone's house burn down while they watched because the owners failed to pay a $75 subscription fee - twice.

    Unlike the private firefighting companies who are contracted by homeowners in fireprone parts of CA who will utilize their excess capacity to protect the homes of non-subscibers.

  • Warmongers are Parasites||

  • Sevo||

    "If "government" can't create jobs, what are all these politicians doing in Washington DC?"

    Your question is answered in the article. You should read it; it sounds like you need to be exposed to ideas.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    I'll take a federal created job like the WPA and CCC over anything created by a blood-sucking exploitative capitalist.

    Would you also be willing to accept the salaries and living conditions that these workers were given? In inflation-adjusted terms, that was about $500 a month, with a little over $400 a month of the CCC worker's salary sent home to the family. The CCC workers also lived in tarpaper barracks and were run under a military-style system.

    Furthermore, what makes you think that a modern-day WPA would be cost-efficient? The WPA's budget in the first year was about $23 billion, inflation-adjusted. You really think such costs would be possible given the current bureaucratic bloat in place?

  • Tony||

    Better than no job.

    And not everything can be as efficient as private businesses whose sole purpose is to transfer unprecedentedly vast sums of money to the CEO's bonus fund, even if they suck at being CEO.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony the merciless,

    Better than no job.


    For whom? Each government job has to be paid through someone else's production. Considering that the job loss for private and federal workers does not correlate at all, the curve for private job loss being steeper, it follows that each government job costs at best one private job.

  • Emperor Wears No Clothes||

    Judging by the handle, I'd say Kropotkin was writing satirically.
    Tony, on the other hand, is just being, well, Tony.

  • ||

    Can wealth be created Tony?

    Answer the question.

  • Gilgamesh||

    Is cutting down the cedar forests of Mesopotamia and turning the place into the Iraqi desert of a few centuries your idea of civilized development, Franco?

    Answer the question.

  • ||

    no

  • ||

    Is there a point?

  • Old Mexican||

    re: White Imbecile,

    Is cutting down the cedar forests of Mesopotamia and turning the place into the Iraqi desert of a few centuries your idea of civilized development, Franco?


    Those cedar forests were located in Syria and Lebanon, you stupid ignorant imbecile piece of dog shit.

    You suck.

  • ||

    Damn, I got trolled. Should have known better.

    Thought there was something I was missing and it was just WI BS. No wonder it didn't make sense.

    I'm so ashamed!

  • fish||

    Those cedar forests were located in Syria and Lebanon, you stupid ignorant imbecile piece of dog shit.

    Old Mex....dude! A little Christmas charity towards your intellectual inferiors.

  • Gilgamesh||

    Wrong, Old Poodle.

    The cedar forests of Mesopotamia, the Oak Forests of the Saudi peninsula and Sinai peninsula were all cut down in the name of civilized progress.

    Many were burned for smelting metals, and the archeological evidence is indisputable.

    City-Statist like you must lie about the destruction you've caused; such is the typical behavior of an abuser.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: White Imbecile,

    The cedar forests of Mesopotamia, the Oak Forests of the Saudi peninsula and Sinai peninsula were all cut down in the name of civilized progress.


    The Sinai... The SINAI! Oh shit, I guess all that crying like a little wussy girl has made you lose your mind at last.

  • fish||

    Shit I take it back! White Idiot was right! Old Mex was the guy who chopped down those ancient forests!

    OM...you look good for being 2000 years old....you must use a moisturizer!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    My idea of civilized development is denying Godesky his Ring-Dings and Mountain Dew.

    For the children.

  • Tony||

    Define created. I've yet to meet the phenomenon that can violate the first law of thermodynamics, so I'm not sure what you mean. Though it's certain that whatever you mean by creating wealth, it is much more efficiently and justly done with a strong government to provide a backbone of rules and infrastructure for the economy.

  • ||

    Wealth is not energy Tony.

    Wealth is predicated upon value. An object's (or service's) value is whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. Example of wealth creation:

    A man/company takes a few dollars worth of silicone, metal and plastic, and turns it into a computer worth several hundreds or thousands of dollars. The difference, less labor costs and overhead is known as profit.

    You will note, that in this example, that wealth was not created at the expense of another. It was generated to the benefit of all...the company, the worker who earns a fair wage for the assembly and the consumer who now has the computer.

    This is why your zero sum game model of economics is nonsense. If I may quote you; "And not everything can be as efficient as private businesses whose sole purpose is to transfer unprecedentedly vast sums of money to the CEO's bonus fund". You seem to assume that in order for one to profit another must lose. I have just shown that not to be the case.

    Your claims that the rich get rich at the expense of the poor are at the least ignorant and at the worst disingenuous. You are either a moron who doesn't understand the first thing about economics or a liar who spouts this class warfare rhetoric so that he may receive MORE than his fair share from productive portion of the population.

    Which is it Tony? Are you stupid or a thief?

  • True Believer||

    A perfect parroting of the fundamentalist canon.

  • silicone||

    Think of me!

  • ||

    Total and utter bull shit.

    Go start a business and learn, Tony.

    Holy crap.

  • Ponchy||

    "better than no job" but vastly worse than a job paying $6.00 an hour which is currently illegal. Tony endorses abolishing the minimum wage?

  • Maxxx||

    Only if the government is doing the exploiting.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Better than no job.

    Please--you're only saying that because you're not living it.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    If only there were someway to oust a CEO...like if the owners of the company could hold a vote of some kind.

  • ||

    Wow, you mean one of a CEO's major skillsets is the abilitie to ensure the CEO is able to keep his job and is well compensated.

    Unlike, oh say Congress, who's main skillset is their ability to get re-elected and have a lot of perks and benefits for their service.

    No way any similarity exists here.

  • ||

    "private businesses whose sole purpose is to transfer unprecedentedly vast sums of money to the CEO's bonus fund, even if they suck at being CEO."

    Aside from the nonsensical generalization, where is said, thought or written that's their "sole purpose?"

    Incredible statement.

  • ||

    I'm sure you would. Those "blood-sucking exploitive capitalists" expect value for their dollar. It's much better to give up your dignity, decency and sense of self-worth for a living if you have none of those things.

  • JohnD||

    My Gawd, what a fool. Did you even red the article? These are not real jobs in that they create nothing usefull.

  • yogi||

    Linky lack. The linky goes to thefreedmanonline, but it's a dead-end from there.

  • Old Man With Candy||

    Ironically, Slate is featuring an interview with that nice young man Rachel Maddow on why MSNBC is nothing like Fox.

  • Sheldon Richman||

    With all there is to be said about Rachel Maddow's bad political philosophy, why make a loathsome and irrelevant comment about her sexual identity?

  • ||

    For the same reason we talk about Rush Limbaugh's circumference: It's handy way to express disgust with the odious person in question.

    -jcr

  • Sheldon Richman||

    It's a lousy way. You mean you don't see that? Why do you want to associate libertarianism with troglodyte bigotry?

  • Ted S.||

    Would Limbaugh's philosophy suddenly become acceptable and virtuous if he became Kate Moss-level emaciated?

    Would Maddow's philosophy suddenly become acceptable and virtuous if she became a hot chick who digged three-ways?

  • chris||

    Kate Moss-level emaciated?

    Mmmmm . . . Kate Moss-level emaciated.

    'Nothing could taste as good as thin feels.'
    -- Kate Moss

    You have to admire the self discipline there.

  • fish||

    You have to admire the self discipline there.

    The hell I do!

    (Opens another beer!)

  • protefeed||

    I believe you're confusing "anorexia nervosa" with "self discipline".

  • Ted S.||

    I was going to write "Karen Carpenter-level anorectic" instead of "Kate Moss-level emaciated", but I thought that might be too tasteless even for the commentariat here.

  • ||

    Hmm, maybe. At least for one evening.

  • Bugs Bunny, Libertarian||

    Why do you want to associate libertarianism with troglodyte bigotry?

    Him not know me very well, do him?

  • troglodyte||

    Hey now!

  • fish||

    why make a loathsome and irrelevant comment about her sexual identity?

    Cuz were snotty!

  • dennis||

    Yeah, but aside from being beneath us, it also feeds into the "libertarians are bigots who only want freedom for straight white men" paradigm.

  • chris||

    Why would you assume we are straight white dudes?

  • Geoff P||

    yeah, some of us are gay skeleton robots.

  • chris||

    NTTAWWT, but I blame you guys for the 40D shortage.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    What shortage? You can get a 40D for less than $600 on ebay.

  • Sheldon Richman||

    I don't care what you are.

  • chris||

    Life is too short to waste time walking on egg shells. If you want to live that way, Dennis, I pity you.

  • A Secret Band of Robbers||

    You can act however you want, but would you really be going that far out of your way to be passably decent to other people? All that entails is ripping them a new one for their stupidity as individuals instead of merely deriding them for their collective identity.

  • A Secret Band of Robbers||

    You can act however you want, but would you really be going that far out of your way to be passably decent to other people? All that entails is ripping them a new one for their stupidity as individuals instead of merely deriding them for their collective identity.

  • chris||

    For a feminist of the collectivist stripe there is only the thinnest hair splice of a difference between the personal and the political, identity gets wrapped up in the latter.

  • chris||

    . . . political; identity gets . . .

  • chris||

    A hand-me-down dress from who knows where

  • Sheldom Richman||

    You guys make my uterus hurt.

  • chris||

    Lighten up, cosmogirl. This is where irrelevant comments come to die.

  • ||

    Thank you, Sheldon.
    CB.

  • Apatheist||

    So are Reason columnists now moonlighting as concern trolls too? How about this, Maddow is a cunt. Better?

  • Ancapistan||

    +100

  • Punchbowl Turd||

    Maddow is a cunt. Better?

    Nope, worse. Not that it isn't de rigueur for the H&R crackpotariat.

  • fish||

    Hi Rectal!

  • Punchbowl Turd||

    I'm not "Rectal."
    Carry on.

  • ||

    Modern day so called 'feminists' being horrified by the word 'cunt' is a microcosm of their entire bullshit belief system. They claim to want equality, but at the same time they want to be treated special. Rather, you do not seek equality, you seek privilege. You want to be able to shit all over this thread and at the same time have the guys not treat you how you deserve to be treated because you grasp on to your female identity. Fuck you cunt, seriously, FUCK YOU.

  • TSA||

    that was not my comment.
    -Merry Christmas Banjo

  • ||

    Merry Christmas, Rather.

  • chris||

    I'm dedicating my next cup of nog to Banjo. Two extra drams to her untamed spirit. Cheers!

  • Sheldon Richman||

    I hope you don't think you're doing anything for liberty.

  • ||

    What about the fact that, lesbian or heterosexual, Maddow is pretty manly looking?

  • ||

    And I'd add, given that she's a lesbian, kind of taking it to the level of self-parody?

  • fish||

    Manly looking or not manly looking, I'd like to applaud her fashion choices. From the Eleanor Smeal line I believe....smashing!

    Brown! It's the new Black!

  • Apatheist||

    Exactly, Sheldon Richman, concern troll extraordinaire, is the one who brought her sexual identification into this. She looks like a man because she looks like a man. Or are we supposed to judge people as collectives instead of individuals?

  • Um||

    Sheldon Richman, concern troll extraordinaire

    I'm thinking at this point that you're the concern troll extraordinaire.

  • ||

    Also, given that Maddow's not refrained from using sneering innuendo to imply racism to people she's disagreed with (a certain Kentucky Senator comes to mind), I can't say Ms. Maddow exactly occupies the high road here.

  • Liberchild||

    Yeah, two wrongs make a right, and Timmy did it too!

  • Tony||

    She didn't force Sen. Paul to be in favor of legalized racial discrimination.

  • No one forces||

    a certain Chicago politician elected President to slaughter innocent black African and Asian children and still get a free pass from Maddow and Tonee.

  • ||

    Tony, that line of reasoning is about as strong as claiming that someone who is "pro-choice" gets off on infanticide.

  • Tony||

    She didn't force Sen. Paul to be in favor of legalized racial discrimination.

  • Maxxx||

    He's not.

  • ||

    Tony, that line of reasoning is about as strong as claiming that someone who is "pro-choice" gets off on infanticide.

  • ||

    Alas we live in a world of scarcity.

    We what?!? Why the hell wasn't I told about this sooner?

    Christ, my wife is going to be furious.

  • Sheldon Richman||

    Sorry.

  • ||

    Sheldon, isn't it true that you and these libertarians are, in fact, wholly motivated by your hatred of children and women and free shit for people who don't earn it in your political philosophy?

    Ed Schultz told me you were!1!11!!!

  • Tom||

    This is great, succinct primer on economics that should be read by every congressman and senator.

  • Sevo||

    And anyone who votes.

  • Sevo||

    Ooops. 'reply' to Tom.

  • PantsFan||

    /

  • ||

    This is where we were, right?

    Time hole ?

  • PantsFan||

    The squirrels are rising up.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I think I know what happened. It looks like they allowed comments on the Hit & Run teaser post for this article as well as comments for the article itself. The two parallel commenting threads caused a potential paradox that threatened to destroy the very fabric of Christmas.

  • ||

    And the post where you show no shame in implying possible inter-familial relations is "magically" lost for all time.

    Convenient.

  • PantsFan||

    My question about the Ex-Amish still stand. What's with the driving with no shirts?

  • capitol l ||

    I don't know. I had this thing about rumspringen* typed up, but I don't really want to type it up again.

    *google it

    In PA nasty-ass people love to wear as little clothing as possible. As soon as we get a 70f day the beergutted homemade tattoo havin' dudes decide to go shirtless because of the oppressive heat. And if you get off on seeing morbidly obese white trash women nearly naked in public then come to a Pittsburgh area walmart. You'll be in boner heaven.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Convenient.

    Temporal folds are for closers. You get things done, you're rewarded.

  • capitol l ||

    ABC man, ABC!

  • ||

    What the fuck? My email got erased.

  • ||

    Am I not free to gambol about the comment section?

    Fuck man, my shit gets deleted or flagged as spam (happens all the fucking time) yet white fuckhead can shit all over the place for months at a time. Jesus.

    If Postrel was still around this shit would have been dealt with.

  • El Commentariosa||

    You're only slightly less annoying than the Kia hamsters.

  • El Commentariosa||

    I'm not a librarian, it's true.
    You know who is a librarian?

  • fish||

    I thought you weren't White Idiot?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Drink!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Enjoy the fact that the Jets had like twenty minutes of open net while MAF was rolling around on the ice like a Japanese kid seizing from Pokemon strobe animation. And why would you shoot glove-side on a goaltender who lost his stick?

  • ||

    TRADE FLUERY* FOR A WINGER FOR SID!

    TRADE STALL** FOR A WINGER FOR SID!

    * we could get that van Damme guy cheap

    **intentional mark madden listening to internet posting idiot misspelling of Staal's name.

  • PantsFan||

    The 2nd period is so boring the Jets announcers are talking about the sweater and Despres' street clothes being strung up at practice.

  • ||

    I couldn't find a reliable online feed, and don't feel like listening to the broadcast so you guys are my eyes and ears. It's good to know I'm not missing much.

  • PantsFan||

    Wheeler just scored to tie it up at 1.

  • PantsFan||

    There's a feed at http://atdhenet.tv/ now

  • ||

    Sweet. Thanks for the feed. Do they always have them, or is this a one-off?

  • PantsFan||

    They have every NFL, NBA, and soccer games. Not sure about Sunday NFL other than evening, and Monday and Thursday night games.

  • PantsFan||

    every NHL that is.

  • PantsFan||

    they have NCAA games too.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    A helicopter just crashed on the ice.

  • ||

    ...and Orpik stared it down until it left in shame.

  • ||

    Pen's PK is un-fucking-real. We're really spoiled with the squad/coaching we got.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    ...and Orpik stared it down until it left in shame.

    More like Orpik slashed it. Slashy McSlashimoff.

  • ||

    troll-o-meter .01

    Come on man, Orpik always has respectable total penalty minutes.

    You hate d-men, bigot.

    hth

  • Gojira||

    I would like to go on record right now as saying that hockey is one of the most boring, mind-numbing sports I have ever watched.

  • El Commentariosa||

    Not a fan of the ladies, are you jimbo?

  • ||

    I know! If you want action, you need to watch three hours of budweiser commercials football.

  • ||

    I mean, I could understand if you said it's too fast and you can't see the puck, or that it's too violent, or even that the rules are obscure...but 'boring'?

    There's so much action per minute of viewing time that it's ridiculous, especially when compared to other sports.

  • Gojira||

    I think there's too much action. Like, I can barely follow what's going on because everybody's always skating around everywhere (skating being a pansy-ish pasttime, btw) doing god knows what.

    I mean even in basketball, guys slow down to set up a play. I have absolutely no idea what's going on from one second to the next whenever I watch hockey.

    Also, it feels "foreign" somehow. I grew up in the south before all these franchises moved down here, and it just doesn't feel like part of our culture. I can see people in Chicago, or, I don't know, Maine, I guess, being into a frozen winter Canadian game. But the fact that the Coyotes, Thrashers, Predators, and Stars have constantly flirted with bankruptcy over the last decade indicates how much interest there is in the sport down here.

  • Emperor Wears No Clothes||

    We'll make you a deal. Send back the hockey teams in the Hick Belt and we won't try to come watch your cousins driving in a permanent left-hand turn.
    Deal?

  • Ice Nine||

    LOL

  • The 80s||

    Try watching a playoff game with three or four friends, a jug of Scotch and an eight-ball and tell me it isn't exciting.

  • PantsFan||

    Fleury just had an amazing period of hockey.

  • ||

    I'm too upset right now to talk about hockey. I just want this Sheldon Richman character to know that he ruined Christmas with his post deleting ways.

    At least with Al Queda you know what kind of degenerate you're going up against. This is depraved.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Cap's email got deleted, my reply was posted in the wrong place, comments appearing out of chronological order. Skynet is taking over, man. I can feel it.

  • PantsFan||

    There's a "Roots" Christmas Special? That's awesome.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096009/

  • Old Mexican||

    You know, I remember there were more posts here including some threadjacking from my part.

    I guess there was a change in the Matrix or something...

  • mad libertarian guy||

    They can't have the plebs complaining about the lack of PM links out loud.

  • ||

    Read up, we figured it out.

    Turns out that this "Richman" character is trying to ruin Christmas. He's probably one of them there New York City atheists.

  • chris||

    I read about the atheist groups who ruined Christmas in some town in California. They won a huge majority of the lots allowed for displays in a public park, and instead of actually building a display they put up a notice denouncing the holiday as a myth. God, what a bunch of assburgers with no sense of PR. It was their opportunity and they blew it! Why couldn't they make a damn display. Have reindeer robots frolic while being blown up. Who wouldn't want to see that? Instead they put up a sanctimonious sign. A false flag Christian group could not have put them in a worse light.

  • ||

    Agree, I'd put up something awesome. I'd make a live action diorama that centered the myths of christmas around the movie Die Hard. With real explosions of course.

    I went to a local atheist meeting at a bar one time and it was fucking lame. Bunch of creepy ass people. Me, my gf, and one cool guy ended up drinking without them.

  • chris||

    Die Hard action, but have it MCed by a robot Cousin Eddy. That would be a chill Christmas vibe. Nobody would miss the old fashioned shit.

  • ||

    Word.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    They won a huge majority of the lots allowed for displays in a public park, and instead of actually building a display they put up a notice denouncing the holiday as a myth.

    I swear, evangelical atheists actually get off on making everyone as miserable as they are.

  • ||

    I can kind of understand why, the religion stuff gets pushed pretty hard sometimes. I spent a good portion of the last 20 years having to listen to "evening prayer" while serving in the Navy and even at my retirement ceremony I got stuck with the chaplain doing and invocation and benediction because it might insult some of the people attending.
    People I didn't want attending a ceremony I didn't want but was ordered to have mind you.

    On the other hand they could have put up damn near any Christmas stuff since very little of that outside manger scenes has to be explicitly Christian.

    I would have done a mock-up of the tongue-stuck-to-the-flagpole scene from "A Christmas Story".

  • SFC B||

    There will be no chaplain at my retirement ceremony. I've spent too much of my life standing in formation for other people's ceremonies. I've given explicit instructions to those whom I trust that they will intervene and stop me should I waver and want pomp and circumstance.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    A display of Jesus and Santa Claus having a John Woo style shoot-out against Aqua Buddha and FSM complete with doves flying around would have been too awesome for words.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    A display of Jesus and Santa Claus having a John Woo style shoot-out against Aqua Buddha and FSM complete with doves flying around would have been too awesome for words.

  • Geoff P||

    someone called Prince Philip a dictator.

  • chris||

    Yeah, some of my stuff got erased too. That link I had to surveillance film of Krugman reading Human Action in the faculty lounge where you can see him lipping 'this is the good stuff.' Unfortunately, I didn't save it. It's probably lost forever, and Krugabe gets off as usual.

  • chris||

    Oh, and Richman, you recall that article in 1994 comparing Rothbard's and Friedman's analysis of Fed policy leading up to the Great Depression? You anticipated Rothbard's response but it never arrived due to his untimely death? Well, he did respond, and I provided a link to it, but someone erased it earlier this evening. Sorry, it too is lost.

  • chris||

    Oh yeah, I remember, OM. You provided a link I was going to watch after the Jason Lewis show was off air. Could you run that again?

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: chris,

    Uh, I don't remember, but here's one that's interesting: The complete Gloria-Paul interview. Enjoy the Trojan horse.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid.....l-iowa.cnn

  • Old Mexican||

    The interview is quite revealing in several ways:

    a) His answer regarding use of military force; he does not discard it outright. What he says is the logical thing: Take it to Congress and have it decide if a situation is a threat to national security and have it make the declaration of war.

    b) The extension of the interview. It was actually a good interview, but somehow CNN only showed the part where Paul becomes irritated.

    I believe I know why: The answers he gave to her questions totally destroyed the paradigm that the MSM had been molding for years. If CNN had shown this part of the interview, it would be difficult to make the case that Paul is some sort of appeaser. Oh, we can't have that!!!

  • Bill||

    Isn't this supposed to be a hockey thread? Stay on topic.

  • Easily Amused||

    Stay on topic.

    Hahahahaha!

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Bill,

    Stay on topic.


    "It's not good! I can't maneuver!"
    "Stay on topic!"
    "Loosen up!"
    "Stay on topic!"
    "Ahhhhh!!!!!" WHAM!
    "Gold leader to Red leader, lost Tyree, lost Hutch!"
    "That's because you stayed on topic."
    "They came from behiiiiind!"
    WHAM!

  • chris||

    Hockey? People still play that?

  • ||

    No offense PantsFan, but Winnipeg fans are becoming more and more obnoxious as the season goes on.

    I hope this doesn't turn into a Montreal situation where penalties are decided by the crowd instead of the refs.

  • PantsFan||

    I don't think it's affecting the Penguins too much here.

  • ||

    Hey man, it was still 2-1 when I posted that.

  • PantsFan||

    well, Jets fans boo the smooch cam if there's no tongue

  • ||

    Okay, I guess since they were out of the NHL for 15 years some exaggerated exuberance is to be expected.

  • PantsFan||

    Did you know Dan Bylsma was drafted by the original Winnipeg Jets in 1989?

  • ||

    I do now.

  • Ted S.||

    Only a few more seasons then until they reach the level of Penguin fans.

  • ||

    WOOOOO! You ain't nothin' but a Kun-hound!

  • ||

    I think one of my posts from earlier was erased. Guys? Anyone?

  • ||

    Yeah. Something stupid is going on.

  • Tim||

    The magic of Christmas?

  • El Commentariosa||

    It's a festivus miracle!

  • The Ghost of Morning Links||

    Something stupid is going on.

    Tell me about it.

  • Ted S.||

  • Narcissist Crackpot||

    One of my posts from earlier was erased

    And the world loses another masterpiece.

  • ||

    Fuck off, you whiny little cunt.

    I often wonder if you can be this whiny in the real world without suffering constant ass-beatings.

    Do you even know what narcissism is? I mean, you've linked to the dsm-iv page for narcissistic personality disorder, but have you read it? It's just that your arm chair diagnosis is apropos of nothing. Except that it perhaps betrays a feeling of bitterness on your part. Being left out and disliked will do that to a whine-bot though.

    I know you are unhappy that the Reason comment section has grown organically to include conversational, off-topic subthreads, but that is what humans do when we communicate. I know it's hard to ken for a whiny, bitchy rand-bot, but despite your sense of entitlement the internet isn't going to conform to your narrow expectations.

    Now go kill yourself, bitch. Nobody will miss you. :(

  • Narcissist Crackpot||

    The Artist is unhappy!

    Instead of ignoring me, he launches into a whiny little diatribe, attributing my comment (incorrectly) to his favorite scapegoat-troll! Funny!

    And sad. So...sad.

  • ||

    OUCHH! Dupuis piling on!

  • El Commentariosa||

    WAIT! you expect people to still pay for porn?

    hahaha.

    Oh you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

    hahahahaha.

  • ||

    Here's some Justin Townes Earle playing Who Killed John Henry.

    I'm teaching myself this song right now. It's not as hard as it looks; just some standard Travis pickin'.

  • ||

    Not here.

  • ||

    Here's some Justin Townes Earle playing Who Killed John Henry.

    I'm teaching myself this song right now. It's not as hard as it looks; just some standard Travis pickin'.

  • ||

    Nor here.

  • ||

    This is my favorite of his.

  • Ice Nine||

    A really nice John Henry. Post the tab when you get it worked out!

    Loved seeing that acoustic Epiphone - my first guitar. I don't recall ever seeing a pro playing one (acoustic, ie.).

  • akc||

    .

  • Tim||

    It's Friday night I don't belong here...

  • akc||

    ..

  • Hodor||

    Hodor!

  • akc||

    .

  • ||

    A Lawrence I prefer.

  • PantsFan||

    my favorite lawrence

  • ||

    Here's some Justin Townes Earle playing Who Killed John Henry.

    I'm teaching myself this song right now. It's not as hard as it looks; just some standard Travis pickin'.

    --------------------------------

    Here's where I meant to put this.

  • ||

    Well fuck, then I will repost mine as well:

    This is my favorite of his.

  • PantsFan||

    This is how you play an acoustic guitar

  • Skr||

    Goddamn!!!

  • Da shit||

    so HIP. dudududaaaymn

  • Ted S.||

  • Hodor||

    HODOR! HODOR! HODOR!

  • Sevo||

    Since there's no active TSA thread, you folks get it here:
    "Mass. woman says TSA confiscated frosted cupcake"
    [...]
    "the Transportation Security Administration agent took her cupcake, telling her its frosting was "gel-like" enough to violate TSA policies."
    Wanna bet who ate the cupcake?
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/......DTL&tsp=1

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Probably the same fucker who took a very small jar of unopened apple butter a friend of mine tried to take home from the orchard.

    You know the tax leech ate that shit in the break room.

  • ||

    Hmm, I'm thinking lots of adultered cupcakes and alot of short flight through different airports might just brighten up my holiday season.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    That's good stuff right there!

    Surely now you're on a list, however, and shortly there'll be a scare that terrorists are trying to drug the TSA screeners via adultificated baked goods.

  • ||

    Yeah, he made a stupid judgment call. I was in the Post Office yesterday and watched one clerk hand another an evelope and ask if a surcharge should be added.
    The second clerk felt up the envelope and said "yeah, sure".

  • ||

    Warty got me hooked on this guy.

  • PantsFan||

    cutest ukulele ever

  • ||

    He's pretty awesome. His later stuff, less so, but still quite good.

  • chris||

    Holy Crap this is a good commercial:

    http://www.economicpolicyjourn.....ul-ad.html

  • El Commentariosa||

  • JackBlair||

    Id like to read a series of pieces debunking everyone of these Lean Forward spots.

    I am particularly amused and disturbed by Maddows little socialist lectures.

  • Maxxx||

    Like the one where she says a private company couldn't build a railroad bridge.

  • Skr||

    No really?

  • Tony||

    Government jobs don't face a market test, they face a democratic test. In a democracy, instead of the person with more money getting more votes, everyone gets a vote equally, something bizarrely held as suspect in these parts.

    If the market could provide universal education, defense, police, fire, infrastructure, etc., we wouldn't need government to do it. But it can't, even theoretically.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony the stoopid,

    Government jobs don't face a market test, they face a democratic test.


    No, they don't you DOLT. They're U-N-I-O-N-I-Z-E-D.

    God, are you too stoopid to live.

    If the market could provide universal education, defense, police, fire, infrastructure, etc., we wouldn't need government to do it.


    Another question begging assertion. Gosh, you sure like those! Do you wear them with matching bag and earrings???

  • Tony||

    You can't blame unions for the fact that a majority of voting Americans don't want to do away with defense, education, police, firefighting, and road construction. They don't want to do away with those things because they like living in a civilization.

    Since a market with no government help has never provided any of the things I listed, that places the burden of proof on you don't you think?

    But that part about me being stoopid and a dolt, that's a real winner of an argument. You got me there.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony the stoopid,

    You can't blame unions for the fact that a majority of voting Americans don't want to do away with defense, education, police, firefighting, and road construction.


    What are you talking about?You just said that government jobs are subjected to democratic test, and I showed you that you're ignoring a teensy-weensy fact: THEY'RE NOT!!!! And now the only thing you can do is back-pedal in the most ridiculous way possible.

    You're hopeless. Go play with dolls or something.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony the stoopid,

    Since a market with no government help has never provided any of the things I listed,


    No, it has. YOU are the one who prefers to ignore the history of private education, private police and private fire control. It's YOUR head on the sand, not everybody else's.

  • ||

    "You can't blame unions for the fact that a majority of voting Americans don't want to do away with defense, education, police, firefighting, and road construction"

    I can, however, blame the 51% of voting Americans for wanting defense, education, police, firefighting, and road construction for free, while the other 49% get stuck with the bill.

    The rich get no more protection from fires than the poor, yet the rich pay for fire protective services and the poor pay nothing.

    The bottom line is, Tony, YOU are a greedy moocher who desires to live at the expense of others. You are immoral.

  • Tony||

    The poor pay less because they are fucking poor. It is not unfair that the rich pay more, they are rich, they will be OK. It's in their interest for poor neighborhoods not to constantly be on fire.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony,

    The poor pay less because they are fucking poor. It is not unfair that the rich pay more, they are rich, they will be OK.


    So much for the democratic test.

    You forget one thing, only because you're too stoopid to live: If the rich pay more for the same services, they get to have a greater say so for their burden - it's only logical. Have you thought about that? Where do you think all those privileges and cronyism comes from?

    You're hopeless, sockpuppet. Go play with your Barbies or something.

  • Tony||

    No, some services are provided universally. You get your house put out whether you're rich or poor. It makes sense for the rich to pay more since they have more to lose in a fire. But even if a poor person can afford to pay nothing, it's still in the community's interest to put his house out when it's on fire, since fire doesn't stay confined to the homes of freeloaders; it's a social problem. Those kinds of things exist (armed invasion, natural disaster, lack of access to education or healthcare). You will never be able to describe a system that applies to the real world because you have bizarre neoconfederate hangups about the role of government. That's your problem, not mine.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony the economics clueless,

    No, some services are provided universally.


    You're just repeating what you wrote like a parrot. You don't get it: If the rich pay more for the same services that the poor receive, they also get to have a greater say on other things as well. This is inevitable and it is the direct result of this system you so adore. You can't escape it, sockpuppet - putting your head in the sand will not change this reality. Where do you think all this cronyism comes from?

  • Tony||

    The rich will always have more political influence than the poor.

    Which makes your undying belief in the oppression of the rich at the hands of the scheming poor as ridiculous as it sounds.

    Your solution to dealing with cronyism is to take away the need for rules so capitalist exploiters don't have to bother buying their way out of them.

  • fish||

    You get your house put out whether you're rich or poor. It makes sense for the rich to pay more since they have more to lose in a fire.

    Pay more for what? Extra water?

    "They have more to lose in a fire"....well I hope they have non-goverment BS insurance to compensate them for their loss.

  • ||

    "The poor pay less because they are fucking poor. It is not unfair that the rich pay more, they are rich, they will be OK."

    It's not unfair? What do you mean it's not unfair? Two different classes of people pay drastically different prices for the same service and you think that's equitable?

    Can you please explain from where your claim to other people's money (labor) is derived? Because the majority agree to it?

    Let's have a vote of our own. I propose that those with an IQ of 99 and above, pay no taxes. Those with an IQ of below 99 (Tony) pay ALL the taxes. All those in favor say aye.

    You are a morally bankrupt thief.

  • ||

    agrees

  • ||

    Tony omits one fact: His argument is premised that all poor people are honorable and hard working. It doesn't seem to occur to him that some, SOME, may in fact be stupid and lazy.

    So his whole argument goes from "compassionate" to "immoral" in a heartbeat.

    It's not right to take from someone more successful to give to another through coercion.

  • Tony||

    Being poor is to be disadvantaged. They are not getting something over on rich people. If that's how you feel, explain why the rich don't all volunteer to become poor so they can live the good life.

  • ||

    Not following at all. Call me slow.

  • Maxxx||

    The poor pay less because they are fucking poor. It is not unfair that the rich pay more, they are rich, they will be OK.

    In other words:

    From each according to his abilities
    To each according to his needs desires.

  • Marshal Shareef||

    The poor pay less because they are fucking poor

    Every good mother reminds her daughter, 'it is just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as it is to fall in love with a poor man.'

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Or, Maxxx, in a more direct way:

    "We need more; you have more."

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Spoof.

    It has to be.

    I don't care for most of Tony's politics, but it's almost certain he's not trolling a libertarian blog on a Friday night. I'd respect even less if he were.

  • Emperor Wears No Clothes||

    "everyone gets a vote equally, something bizarrely held as suspect in these parts."

    You mean, like how the 8 people who live in Montana gets two senators and the 85 million who live in New York also get two senators? That kind of "equal"?
    Similar situation in Canuckistan, where rural riding with a few thousand people but thousands of square miles of land get one Member of Parliament, while a small patch of subdivision with a quarter-million Torontonians also gets one MP.

  • China||

    Like a population of 1.3 billion has the same vote at the UN as fucking Canada with 34 million? Or the same Security Council representation as the US with 300 million? Federalism, what you don't know how it works? Why would you want people to know that you don't know?

  • Tony||

    I'm on record for abolishing the Senate and making other reforms to make our system more democratic. This country is still suffering from ancient compromises with slave states (now "small government" states.)

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony,

    I'm on record for abolishing the Senate and making other reforms to make our system more democratic.


    You're on record suggesting lots of things that would make the US system look more like a Politburo. This is well known, sockpuppet.

  • Tony||

    Compared to the many ways you want to force the country into being a radically altered anarchist hellhole the things I advocate are pretty minor. But don't let that stop you making yourself look like an idiot by calling everything other than the stupid bullshit you believe authoritarian communism.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Compared to the many ways you want to force the country into being a radically altered anarchist hellhole the things I advocate are pretty minor.


    You must be jesting. Having a Senate, House, Executive and Judicial branch is actually CLOSER to the anarcap than a Politburo. While you have the several branches going at each other, they leave the rest of us alone. A totally 'democratic' system quickly descents to a bureaucratic nightmare WORSE than what we have.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    "everyone gets a vote equally, something bizarrely held as suspect in these parts."

    You're all for democracy unless the majority votes on something that fucks you over. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

  • Tony||

    There has to be a very good reason why a minority can overrule a majority, don't you think?

  • Brother Grimm||

    South Africa sure thought so.

  • Maxxx||

    Government jobs don't face a market test, they face a democratic test.

    Jim Crow was democratically enacted so you must be in favor of that, right?

  • Tony||

    I don't have to be in favor of everything majorities do. What makes you think I do?

    What are you getting at, exactly? Just make you dictator and we'll have the best possible world?

  • Brother Grimm||

    "I don't have to be in favor of everything majorities do. What makes you think I do?"

    I don't know; perhaps your constant support of the farce that is democracy? Like in that idiotic statement from above:

    "There has to be a very good reason why a minority can overrule a majority, don't you think?"

  • ||

    And the market can't provide this level of service even theoretically?

    The government doesn't even provide universal fire and police protection! Unless you want to count 1 cop on duty in a town of over 12,000 people, I'm sure you would since you like to hold service providers to different standards depending upon whether they're *public* or private.

    and

    Almost all "infrastructure" *is* built by private companies. Who do you think installs water mains, electrical, gas, sewage, the roads in front of your house, sidewalks, garbage removal, cable and internet. Not only are these not state owned companies doing this, they're not even doing the work at the behest of state department.

    Fuck, who do you thinks builds the building that your government services are run out of. Hint: Its not a state run construction service.

    Private companies provide almost all the infrastructure your state needs to do its *job*.

  • Tony||

    I'd love to see a demonstration of how a private market with no government direction can create as efficient an infrastructure as we have. But you don't just get to claim it will happen.

  • Brother Grimm||

    I would love to see it as well. Too bad people like you are too afraid, arrogant, and/or authoritarian to not get out of the way and let it happen. After all, if it worked that would be the nail in the elitist coffin.

  • El Commentariosa||

  • Jeffersonian||

    I'm sorry, but if you run around and spout obviously stupid shit and demand that your obviously stupid shit become public policy and enforced at bayonet-point, you're not a "smart fellow" because you have good grammar and a vocal tone pleasing to television viewers. You're a dumbass and a moral cretin.

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    Tony, if you had fucking bothered to do a little research you would have found out that there are private roads, private firefighters,

    Continued on Next Post due to 2 link limit:

  • Tony||

    Clearly anything government can do the private sector can do, except one thing: provide universality. The private sector will not provide a national infrastructure or universal fire protection or national defense or universal education.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony,

    Clearly anything government can do the private sector can do, except one thing: provide universality.


    Yes, for instance: People in the US are universally not able to have pants and socks! Most go naked!

    You're an unthinking fool.

  • Tony||

    If I'm unthinking then I suppose you can describe, even if just in theory, how the private market can provide a universal education or national infrastructure.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony,

    how the private market can provide a universal education or national infrastructure.


    Let me spell it out for you:

    IT IS ONLY YOU, SHITHEAD, WHO'S ASKING FOR "UNIVERSALITY"!

    And education is already universal thanks to private individuals, no thanks to the government:

    http://www.khanacademy.org/

    http://www.uopeople.org/

    It took me just 5 seconds to find them. That's what the private sector does.

    IDIOT!!!!!

  • Tony||

    Good thing the US government invented the Internet.

    Let's abolish public schools and see how many people voluntarily get a rigorous secular education. Not that you care whether they do. We can't tax people, we can only tell them they are doomed to the fate their parents choose for them, no matter how bad or poor they are.

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    Good thing the US government invented the Internet.

    Last time I checked it was RAND

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    Great Northern Railway

    The Great Northern was the only privately funded, and successfully built, transcontinental railroad in United States history. No federal land grants were used during its construction, unlike every other transcontinental railroad built. It was one of the few transcontinental railroads to avoid receivership following the Panic of 1893.

    And early American road building (I know you're going to hate the link, because it is from LvMI):

    The [private road-building] movement built new roads at rates previously unheard of in America. Over $11 million was invested in turnpikes in New York, some $6.5 million in New England, and over $4.5 million in Pennsylvania. . . . Between 1794 and 1840, 238 private New England turnpike companies built and operated about 3,750 miles of road. New York led all other states in turnpike mileage with over 4,000 as of 1821. Pennsylvania was second, reaching a peak of about 2,400 miles in 1832. New Jersey companies operated 50 miles by 1821 . . . [B]etween 1810 and 1845 over 400 [private] turnpikes were chartered and built . . .
  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    As for education, please note how the Catholic Church in the US created numerous schools, because there was a demand for it

    Catholic parochial schools were instituted in the United States as a reaction against a growing publicly-funded school system that was essentially Protestant.

    And currently there are 2.3 million children in Catholic schools. Now this is not necessarily a business minded education, system but this is a private group creating schools for millions of children.

  • ||

    And the funny thing about Catholic schools is - even atheists like to send their kids to them, figuring that the religious doctrination is a small price to pay for the vast increase in quality versus a secular public school.

  • Juice||

    In New Orleans the public schools are such shit that anyone who gives a damn about their kids' education sends them to Catholic school whether they are Catholic or not. I believe the tuition is means tested and there are all kinds of scholarships because the system is fairly large.

  • ||

    You know, sometimes I read your stuff and think that your a fairly reasonable person, that we want much the same things, but just have a philosophical divide when it comes to the best way of reaching that goal.

    And then some day you come out and show just how alien you are. We're not trying to hash out the best way to provide for the common good. We don't even have anything resembling an agreement on that.

    You're focused on universality and equality. You don't seem to care about the quality of a service as long as every has the same access.

    Even if that means that we all have the same acces to the same shitty level of service and any improvement is impossible, that's ok with you.

    I, on the other hand, accept a certain amount of inequality as a trade-off for an incredible innovation that is constantly improving the quality of what I can afford.

  • Tony||

    I accept a certain level of inequality too, just a little less than you. I'm afraid it's not a certain level you're after, but maximized inequality, which is what happens in a laissez-faire economy. Government is simply the democratic alternative to the oligarchies that naturally develop in capitalism. It should do more for the poor than the rich. But it will always do more for the rich since they have more de facto power. If you're not vigilant about that then you end up maximizing inequality. I don't want to take a single medical service from you, I want to simply pay for universal access to those services. There's no reason quality has to go down, though efficiency is not a bad thing. Innovation is great but I see no reason it has to be at the expense of vulnerable people. This country did plenty of great things with higher tax rates on the rich.

  • Brother Grimm||

    "This country did plenty of great things with higher tax rates on the rich."

    And pleanty more without taxing the rich at all. Weird, huh?

  • ||

    Yeah, the government can force universality.

    But what sockpuppets like you fail to register is the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. Or, at the very least, are not willing to consider if we're getting quality in return.

    I live in Canada. We have many universal things but only a nationalist muppet would claim we have excellent quality of care or education.

    It's splendid mediocrity.

    Period.

    What's sad is we've lost complete ability to believe in ourselves - free of government - to improve life.

    Every argument begins with "we should tax" and "the government should."

    Awful. Terrible. Ssd. Maddening.

    In essence, you hasten the fall of real progress.

  • Tony||

    Ah unintended consequences. The beauty of the market is that is that nobody intends any consequences in the first place. No matter how horrific, the fact that nobody tried to plan for them makes it OK.

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    Ah the beauty of government, no matter how many people get tortured, murdered, imprisoned, and killed, the fact that it's all for the common good makes it OK.

  • ||

    What fucking *national infrastucture* do we need?

    Transportation? We got airplanes and railroads. I admit that a lot of rail was laid because of government funding, but I offer that a lot of it was laid in sub-optimal places and is kept running now solely through government subsidies of shit pretty much no-one wants anymore. Hell, the only reason we have so much cargo running around on large trucks is because of crap "infrastructure" projects that made the Great Depression worse.

    And "universal" is not the only goal. Universal shit is just a waste of money.

  • BigT||

    Tony: If the market could provide universal education, defense, police, fire, infrastructure, etc., we wouldn't need government to do it. But it can't, even theoretically.

    Just like the govt provides universal food, clothing, housing, autos, computers, books, fuel!!!

  • BigT||

    What medical professionals do you wish to enslave for your whims?

  • Tony||

    Bet you beat yourself up over all the police and soldiers you enslave.

  • Brother Grimm||

    You do know that we tend to want a lot less of those guys too, right? This is Reason. Maybe you want the National Review.

  • Tony||

    But some amount of slavery is acceptable.

  • ||

    ....because it will build what it needs...if there are funds and demand it will be built.

  • Tony||

    How do you build large things across multiple jurisdictions without central oversight?

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    I've already provided you with a link to the Great Northern, Tony. Here it is again: Great Northern Railway. That's 1700 miles of track, without centralized government help. I'm starting to think you have some sort of psychological block when it comes decentralized systems.

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    private education, private police, and I'm not even going to provide a fucking link for private defense, i.e. mercenaries, because they've been around for hundreds of fucking years. This is even more stupid than your "Fiat Money! Inflate! Inflate! Inflate!" BS.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re:Mr. Chartruse,

    Besides the way he gave that ridiculous tautology: "Oh, it doesn't matter that government workers are unionized and thus impossible to fire because that is what the people want anyway! So my argument still stands nya nya!"

    Shit, the guy then wonders why I call him names. He's like the kid at recess that just screams to be kicked in the behind.

  • Tony||

    How are mercenaries superior to soldiers?

  • Mr. Chartreuse ||

    You can disband them when the war is done.

  • Brother Grimm||

    The horrors of war are a reflection of those who wage it. Mercenaries are not worried about political correctness and rules of engagement. Opposing forces will be provided a great reason to end the fighting as quickly as possible while at the same time providing a great detterant to going to war in the first place.

  • El Commentariosa||

    Another dictator on the brink.

  • A rather chony white indian||

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Almost certainly pertinent to this audience.

    Not bad. But it seems that you will have to like the LoTR series to like this. The aesthetic is the same. The cadences in the dialogue.

  • ||

  • chris||

    That's just like awful.

  • ||

    Beautifully awful.

  • ||

    This might be even worse. But awesomely worse.

  • ||

    This is just fucking great.

  • Ted S.||

    Tonight can be much, much worse.

  • ||

    You sick fuck.

  • ||

    What the fuck happened to all of the comments? This is bullshit.

    If it wasn't a holiday weekend, I'd cancel my subscription!

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Sloopyinca,

    What the fuck happened to all of the comments? This is bullshit.


    I had taken my wife and kids to the mall to waste some time; I come back, and lo and behold: All my comments were gone! Like, no more! I thought Nick had banished me or something out of pure spite!

    I was scared, man. Like, trembling.

  • ||

    Those stupid jerks.

  • Ted S.||

    Yeah; we need som cool jerks instead.

  • ||

    Nice.

  • Ted S.||

    Does it make up for the "Tonight" video? :-)

  • ||

    All is forgiven.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: rather,

    "Put down that book and be gentle!"

  • ||

    You've never given anyone cause to be nice to you.

  • Old Mexican||

    Another threadjack (before the Matrix is changed again):

    The Buchanan Treatment Won't Work On Paul

    by Steve Deace, Townhall.com

    Should Ron Paul win the Iowa Caucuses, the media narrative is the Republican Party establishment will go scorched earth on the quirky libertarian Texas Congressman, just as they did Pat Buchanan back in the day.

    But unlike that successful kamikaze mission of yesteryear, this one won’t work. In fact, if the Republican Party establishment chooses to go down that road they might just propel Paul to the nomination.

    That’s because Ron Paul isn’t Pat Buchanan, and the environment this go-around is dramatically different than it was back then for two reasons.

    First of all, Paul’s campaign apparatus is dramatically superior to anything Buchanan ever had. His Iowa Caucus campaign is a well-oiled machine, and the envy of the entire process. They’re running the best commercials. They’re the best organized. They’re the most loyal. And look beyond Iowa, too. Paul wins straw polls all over the country, including CPAC and even at the 2011 Values Voters Summit. I know several of these people who are the masterminds of Paul’s organization, and these folks don’t put their phasers on stun when it comes to their opponents and know what they’re doing. They’re not kooks, they’re sharp cookies and losing is not an option in their strategy. They have no problem burning down the entire system, because they distrust it anyway.


    There's no doubt that Paul's apparatus is one of the best put together out there, and you cannot ask for more loyal followers since Kurcher and Demi and the other Obamazombies.

    If someone like Gary Johnson wants to really make a difference and make his mark in the political scene, he has to rally people in the same way that Paul is doing, and he can only achieve this by showing the same kind of mettle that Paul is known for. That means no wishy-washy, vague commitment to a certain position to just change it at the bottom of the inning. Someone like Gary has to inspire people, not just let himself know like one would advertize soap.

    He can learn from Paul and use this experience to build a base as loyal as Paul's, an organization as unwavering as Paul's, but he can't expect to suddenly conjure one like Paul's just because Reason is behind him by smearing Paul with this newsletter - and yes Nick, it is smearing when one alleges something that is not so about a person based on a totally subjective opinion on a certain text.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: rather,

    Why is Nick against him; order from Kotch pussies?


    Maybe it is because Paul is not a librarian.

  • chris||

    I'd like to think that Johnson will come across some version of what you said as it is good advice. To leave your mark on the political scene there must be those who curse the ground you walk. To really inspire someone, you have to be willing to piss off someone else and set them off when your name is mentioned. Just today, Paul praised Bradley Manning as an American hero. There will be an airing of grievances on talk radio. Johnson, take note. A prim rose path was never your destiny, so don't even consider it. To succeed, you'll need more volatile means.

  • Tim||

    Ron Paul has loosed more bowels than Cholera.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    It sounds great in theory, but it seems to me that you have far too much faith in conservative voters.

    Your biggest fallacy: that these voters are ACTUALLY conservative.

  • ||

    I agree; he's pretty pollyannish when it comes to people's disgust of pols. If true, then why the obscene reelection rate?

    inre: the conservative definition,

    My experience has been that most people who call themselves conservatives are for big government (law and order types, morality issues, war-boners). To me conservative is the other side of the statist coin, liberal being the other.

    If 90% of scotsmen aren't true scotsmen then maybe we should check our definition.

  • Juice||

    What a bizarre article. Starts talking about how the Paul campaign is a well-oiled machine then segues straight into gay marriage. ?? And then it gets weird.

  • Shareef||

    Any of you whom have daughters can use this page as your personal scared straight

    http://www.co.guilford.nc.us/j.....roster.xml

    Select randomly amongst the female occupants, and tell your daughters, "this is what hard drugs and a life of crime will do to your face."

  • Shareef||

    DWI cases are the single exception to the rule. Some are actually cute.

  • BakedPenguin||

  • ||

    One lady named Tayikkah Davis is in for castration. I didn't know they had a specific statute against that.

    Watch who's dick you cut off in North Carolina.

  • Marshal Shareef||

    That's exactly the case I was looking up!

  • ||

    Don't google 'castration davis north carolina', you'll get a bunch of wierd stuff. Turns out this kind of thing ain't rare in NC.

    Here's the strangest search result.

  • Gojira||

    Judge rules against America's favorite Arizona sheriff.

    It's a Christmas miracle!

  • Old Mexican||

    Ahhhhh- huaaaaaa!!!! Yay! Yay! Yay!

    FUCK YOU, ARPAIO! Yipeee!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ature=fvst

  • Tim||

    But they did not shoot the Deputy...Deputy ...

  • ||

  • db||

    North Korean Elite Seen as Likely to Defect."

    Evidently senior officials overseas are being recalled to NK; some refusing in fear of a political purge. The people most likely to be able to escape NK are those that have been able to accumulate enough wealth to bribe their way across borders into China or SK.

    So: sympathy for these people whom the TFA says have the best chance of changing NK from within, or to hell with them?

    My initial thought is "fuck 'em; they have trod on their fellow NK'ans and accepted the Faustian bargain of being a toady to a repressive government. When that government turns on them, they're likely getting what they deserve.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    I'll admit, some part of me is going to miss the antics of the NK government when it finally collapses.

  • db||

    I see what you mean. If it were a "reality show" it would be a watchable farce. Sadly, it has been actual reality for millions, for decades.

    Any thoughts on those elites who are trying to trade on their ill-gotten status to escape the next round of oppression?

  • Trey Bienn||

    Will the NuKe government go out with a bang?

  • BakedPenguin||

    From Daily NK:

    The people that Kim Jong Eun would hope to lead have already left him for the market. For most of the people of Hamkyung, Yangkang, Jagang and Pyongan provinces the market has become the main means of survival. In the minds of these people, images of a father-like leader and a loving, caring, maternal Workers Party have already disappeared without a trace.
  • mad libertarian guy||

    That's when shit gets serious.

    How NK responds as a state either will be terrible or horrifying.

  • ||

    Sheldon Richman goes through all sort of mental contortions to show the folly O'Donnell's statement. But he misses the primary point: The government is the largest employer in the country--including right-wing politicians who decry the ability of government to employ anyone.

  • romulus augustus||

    Yep, and just think how many new jobs could be created if the feds required all constrcution projects to be built with men using teaspoons to dig and stone axes to hammer!

  • Tim||

    Hey! How about sick a wall across Scotland ?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    The government is the largest employer in the country--including right-wing politicians who decry the ability of government to employ anyone.

    The poz-tastic logic of the statement above aside, it ultimately can't be sustained.

    Currently, we're spending about 10% of GDP in deficits to get a growth rate of 1-2%. That can't, and won't, last--you're deficits simply cannot exceed your growth in perpetuity.

    Secondly, despite the best efforts of the Obama administration to increase the bureaucratic complex in DC, overall government jobs are shrinking--because those jobs rely on a robust private sector to keep them going. And with an employment to population ratio that's still in the toilet, those jobs won't come back anytime soon. What industries are going to rehire all the people who lost their jobs over the last three years, plus the new hires entering the workforce every month?

  • Joe M||

    Weekend link:

    Gingrich, Perry to Miss Virginia Ballot

    The development is a significant blow to both campaigns. Virginia is one of the most delegate-rich states to hold its election contest on March 6, so-called Super Tuesday....

    The ruling leaves only two candidates on the Virginia ballot: Mitt Romney and Ron Paul.
  • db||

    No way will that stand. The election commissions and courts always bend over backward to make sure the establishment candidates show up on the ballot, no matter how many rules they've violated. It's the side candidates that have to worry about getting thrown off the ballot on minor technicalities.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: db,

    Still, it's so funny that the fringe candidate obtained more than the 10,000 required valid signatures while the Establishent's darling didn't.

  • Maxxx||

    You mean Romney didn't qualify either?

  • Old Mexican||

    :-D

    Merry Christmas, Maxxx!

    Oh, a Christmas gift:

    http://www.theendrun.com/ron-p.....ars-gallup

  • Tim||

    No links? That's some pretty shit! Game over man. GAME OVER!

  • Sarcazmic||

    Mrs. Claus is still hot.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Fuck you, asshole!!

    DO NOT LOOK, for what has been seen cannot be unseen.

  • Sarcazmic||

    DO look. I dare you.
    I double-dog dare you!

  • Devil's Advocate||

    The labeling comment on that is what is horrifying to me.

  • ||

    Dude really is making a lot of sense.

    www.net-tools.tk

  • Tim||

    Anon bot? Why don't you just put it in charge?

  • mad libertarian guy||

    US DoJ overrules a SC voting law, completely rips off the part of the Constitution that has the 10th written on it.

    The Justice Department on Friday blocked a new South Carolina law that would require voters to present photo identification, saying the law would disproportionately suppress turnout among eligible minority voters.

    The assistant attorney for civil rights, said that allowing the new requirement to go into effect would have “significant racial disparities.”

    Since when the fuck can the federal executive branch block a law that was written and passed by a state legislature which only affects residents of said state without judicial overview? Simply put, this is fucked up, and completely goes against both the letter and the spirit of the Constitution and the Tenth Amendment.

    There are avenues to address this law, assuming it’s a problem, that already exist, and they're built right in to the system. It’s called litigation. No usurpation of clearly delineated powers necessary.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: mad libertarian guy,

    Since when the fuck can the federal executive branch block a law that was written and passed by a state legislature which only affects residents of said state without judicial overview?


    Unfortunately they can appeal to the 14th Amendment to justify this violation of the 10th Amendment despite the fact that the voter ID rule has not been implemented and has not affected anybody negatively. It's Minority Report, it would seem.

    There are avenues to address this law[...]


    Totally, and the move by the DOJ is akin to usurpation of powers, as it should be the courts that decide on new laws (after a complaint is filed) not a federal agency.

  • Tony||

    The Justice Dept. has under current law the power to police certain states with a history of restricting the franchise for racial minorities. Which is exactly what voter ID laws are.

    Again, if the states don't want the feds to intervene, they could try not systematically oppressing people. Just a thought.

  • ||

    Shitbrained moron with a wholesale lack of knowledge of the history disenfranchisement in the United States is shitbrained

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Tony,

    The Justice Dept. has under current law the power to police certain states with a history of restricting the franchise for racial minorities. Which is exactly what voter ID laws are.


    First, there has to be a complaint. The law has not been implemented yet, so the DOJ is jumping the gun here going beyond it's responsibilities. Second, unless minorities happen to be vampires incapable of being photographed, the contention that an ID would negatively impact minorities sounds like a canard.

    You know, Tony: Canard, those things you're so fond of, just like fallacies and question begging assertions.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    It's not yet settled that they actually CAN exercise this kind of power as it has never been used, and SC will almost certainly take this shit to court. If this law passes Constitutional muster in SCOTUS we're fucked because it would give Congress de facto authority to write a law that says "insert federal agency here" has the powers to block any state law they don't see fit.

    This is a bad fucking idea.

    We're fucking doomed.

  • Tony||

    Perhaps, but it could have been avoided by states not passing laws with the express intent of suppressing minority votes.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    So asking that voters show ID is intended to suppress minority voters?

    You are seriously stoopid if you actually believe that.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: mad libertarian guy,

    You are seriously stoopid if you actually believe that.


    He's already stoopid either way.

  • Brother Grimm||

    "You are seriously stoopid if you actually believe that."

    Mad Libertarian guy, meet Tony. Tony, meet Mad Libertarian Guy.

  • I'd suggest an inked thumb...||

    ...but the FDA, CDC, the Sierra Club, ACORN, PETA, the NRA, NOW and the EPA would complain about the ink toxicity.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    I'm well acquainted with Tony, but generally his douchiness, though partisan, generally isn't straight-up retarded.

    His thoughts on this are straight up retarded.

  • Tony||

    Um yes, obviously. Pretending not to know this makes you seriously stoopid. Do you think they're going to the effort to protect people from double voters? Do they have the data to suggest that's worth making it more difficult for everyone to vote, meaning sometimes hundreds of thousands of people per state will drop off?

    Stop defending ugly Republican political cynicism. I understand it's tempting to endorse restricting the vote of people who will never vote your way, but expanding, rather than restricting, the franchise is where free civilization is supposed to be taking us.

  • Inky Thumb||

    How about voting as often as you want? Make ballot-box stuffing legal.

  • Ron Paul ca 1992||

    a history of restricting the franchise for racial minorities. Which is exactly what voter ID laws are.

    They need IDs to cash their welfare checks so what's the fucking problem.

  • ||

    Why doesn't South Carolina tell the Department of Justice to fuck off? What the fuck are the feds going to do? Deny federal funds?

  • Barack Obama||

    There are some who say we should go back to the old way of doing things, where the three branches of government are co-equal providing checks and balances.

    And this is fine, except it just doesn't work!!

  • Tim||

    You've done far worse than kill is, Reason. You've left us with tony in the heart of a dead thread,buried alive.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    How DARE you. I'm okay with you butchering Aliens quotes, but now you've gone too far.

  • ||

    Terrrrist thwarted! Yay!

    "It was jam. Just homemade jam in a tiny mason jar," Triou said. "They said it has the potential to be bomb material.

    "I told the agent, 'It's not gel, not perfume, not cosmetics, just jam.' You could see the seeds in it," she said.

    The TSA agent would hear none of it and "continued to insist it could not pass through security as it could be bomb material," she said.

    ------

    if this is potentially 'bomb material,' why do they just discard it in a trash can off to the side?

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Read above.

    Same shit, different day.

    A friend who came for a few days had a small jar of fucking apple butter confiscated by TSA.

  • ||

    Creeps. On a mission.

    Don’t think a bus or train ticket will keep Uncle Sam from making your vacation this year uncomfortable. The Transportation Security Administration says that they are turning up the heat on potential problem-causers by installing more agents in not just airport checkpoints but in terminals for terrestrial traffic as well.

    "We are not the Airport Security Administration," Ray Dineen, the air marshal in charge of the TSA office in Charlotte, tells the Los Angeles Times. "We take that transportation part seriously."

    How serious? The TSA’s secret counter-terrorism team that tries to topple crimes in transportation centers have run more than 9,000 unannounced checkpoints and other search operations in 2011, and the Department of Homeland Security are asking for an extra $24 million for 2012 to organize even more teams to put in bus stations and Amtrak terminals next year.

    Currently the TSA commands 25 “viper” teams — what they call the two-dozen-plus Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response units that conduct the checkpoints from coast-to-coast. The TSA can’t prove that the increase in 2011 did anything to keep crime down on the ground, but George Washington University’s Homeland Security Police Institute’s Frank Cilluffo tells the Times that they need to keep the terrorists “on edge.”

    All your ass are belong to us.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    So I guess all of the sudden taxis can't be hijacked and driven into strategic facilities here in the United States? Come on, TSA. Go big or go home.

  • ||

    Walking is a form of transportation, therefore all ambulators are subject to search and questioning by federal TSA officers.

    Officer, am I free to ambulate about the city streets?

  • Devil's Advocate||

    LOL. +100

  • Ray Dimall||

    Don't be ridiculous.

    Skateboards, however, ....

  • Fuck...||

    ...I used to joke about state-border-crossing check points, but really, I WAS JUST KIDDING! Come on, Tom Hayden, say it out loud, "We Have Jack-Boot Fascism [notwithstanding, I shall support Obama's reelection]."

  • ||

    Just so you aren't gamboling...

    CB

  • Mr. FIFY||

    And not everything can be as efficient as private businesses whose sole purpose is to transfer unprecedentedly vast sums of money to the CEO's bonus fund, even if they suck at being CEO.

    Yeah. That's the ONLY purpose of the private sector.

    Dumbshit.

  • ||

    OT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?N.....W_MW6WwhbE

    Probably SWF, and in honor of a new year, one that may very well see Ronald in the the race (fuck yeah)!

  • ||

    private businesses whose sole purpose is to transfer unprecedentedly vast sums of money to the CEO's bonus fund

    But people like Janet Napolitano are operating from nothing but the purest of motives as they ceaselessly strive to increase the scope and power of their agencies, while relentlessly grasping for more money from taxpayers' pockets.

  • ||

    It's a long thread man, where'd you pull that quote from?

  • dave c||

    It's a Tony comment (hardly surprising) at 11:53.

    l, learn how to use Ctrl-F!

  • ||

    Ctrl-F pfffft, I'm an f3 man myself.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Ctrl-F? I have my Filipino manservant Ernesto search through the thread for me.

  • ||

    Manservant is good but majordomo is better.

    I have my Filipino majordomo Ernesto search through the thread for me.

    That's downright tophatastic.

  • Cleetus||

    That rank is a bit too high for such a menial task, don't you think? A coachboy would be better.

  • ||

    What kind of monocle wearing, child hating, racist libertarian would entrust his sacred H&R commenting duties to a lowly coachboy?

    No, that is wholly unacceptable.

  • PantsFan||

    I'd use an Under Butler, but I'm not giving them more than £20 a week. Do they need to wear livery while doing my commenting tasks?

  • Ernesto||

    Hello Good apternoon! I hab pound you sub interesting links posted by de Tony dat you may want to repond to.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Coach boy? Under butler? I am not the 1% here. I have Ernesto protesting with my fellow Occupiers just like any other 99%er, you corporate fatcats.

  • ||

    Don't feel low, chum. PantsFan got positively sacked in the markets this year. I hear he's down to being in the 1.5%. Poor fellow, to be among the hoi polloi like that is just so undignified.

    Look at the poor boy up there inquiring about non-livery wearing help. Manservants in casual wear, perish the thought. I'd laugh it wasn't so sad.

  • ||

    where'd you pull that quote from?

    Mr FIFY, just above. I actually assumed it was a quote from Larvay O'Douchebag.

    You don't think I'm crazy enough to read the entire thread, do you? I make liberal use of the spacebar, especially on weekends.

  • Tebow||

    TEBOW!

  • Old Mexican||

    This is kind of a re-post but this time the link is for the youtube version of the CNN interview with Ron Paul, complete and uncut:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?f.....LonnC_ZWQ0

    Compare now to the video that CNN showed on The Situation Room:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    See the two jumps? They took something like a full minute of video there just on those cuts, leaving aside the rest of the interview which did not go well for Gloria and her intentions (Paul devastated her insinuations.) This was a hatchet job through and through.

    Reason staff: I understand you don't agree with Paul on much, but this is outrageous and should be commented.

  • smz||

    agreed. I came on here to see if reason corrected itself - would love to see it corrected. just hack journalism on CNN's part (and everyone else's) to make a story.

  • ||

    You're still planning to support that damnable racist dodger Ron Paul? What a contemptible libertard you are, Old Mexican111!!!!!!!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

    Seriously, though, it's unbelievable now downright brazen Borger was with that bullshit. She wasn't even trying to mask her exertions to trip him up.

    It's a wonder anybody watches CNN. Say what you will about their talk show hosts, their reportage is leagues better, and so are their interviews. Except when one of their anchors goes apeshit on a neo-conervative rallying cry -- that's always irritating.

  • ||

    *Say what you will about Fox's talk show hosts

  • ||

    Jesus Christ -- finished watching the last three minutes. Was anybody else straight-up amazed at how she kept repeating the same question and saying shit like "do you know for a fact that you DIDN'T make money on them?"

    It's even worse than I thought.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Res Publica Americana,

    It's even worse than I thought.


    What did I tell you? This is beyond the newsletters. It is clear they're desperate to bring Paul down in any way necessary. Unfortunately, he did not make a love child or placed his hands under a few dresses. The newsletter issue is so nothing that they hope enough repetition will make a dent.

    Unfortunately, the MOST this has done is make Andrew Sullivan rethink his support for Paul. Yeah, shocker.

    Here's Republic Magazine's take on this issue. Good read.

    http://www.republicmagazine.co.....-paul.html

    Gary Johnson, keep close attention to this: You haven't been on the receiving end of all this hatred - yet. Learn from this and prepare, so next time you're ready to take them on. Paul has been ready for years and the attacks are still surprisingly vitriolic and absurd.

  • veemee sashimi||

    It's a pretty egregious edit, really.

    1) He certainly can no longer be considered to have abruptly cut off the line of questioning.

    2) His point about the fact that there were multiple newsletters got edited out and if he made money on any of them, it would make sense that it would be the investment ones. I'm sure there was plenty of wacky stuff in there (hell he says wacky stuff at the debates), but probably not much that's racist.

    Nevertheless it's the price you pay for even inching down that road at all. He talks about "blowback" from our misguided foreign policy and he's right, but the newsletters are also a form of "blowback" for a similarly wrongheaded policy by people who were at least close aides to him.

  • ||

    I'm pissed that the NFL is making Tebow play on the eve of his birthday. He should be in the game tomorrow night, dammit!

    Oh, and Patriots fans...suck it!

  • ||

    "Patriots fans -- suck it"? What are you, a commie?

  • Ted S.||

    Maybe he's just Diego Maradona

  • Tebow||

    Rex Ryan looks like he ate Santa for breakfast.

  • Nelson||

    Ha! Ha! MNG worthy. Banjos is only teasing you, too.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Except that my Dolphins folded in grand fashion.

  • Binky||

    "I love lifting spirits," TSA worker Ernest Perez III said. "And there is no better way to do this than with music."

    How about UFIA?

  • TSA||

    try it Binky, you'll love it

  • Tebow||

    Tebow :(

  • Tebow||

    :~(

  • Tebow||

    This is an abomination.

  • ||

    Tens of thousands of Raiders fans just stepped back from the railing of the Bay Bridge...but they're not heading home just yet.

  • ||

    They can all go home and beat their wives in celebration now. They live to play another week.

  • Gojira||

    I need you to hook me up with some bay area Asian ass. I'm sure you won't have the same trouble shipping her Greyhound that you did with the beer and FedEx.

  • ||

    Boy, you must be having a bad Christmas weekend on the homefront.

  • Gojira||

    Quite the opposite, actually. I'm enjoying myself so much, I want to double my fun.

    I'm on vacation all next week, so let the good times roll!!!

  • ||

    Well that explains it a bit better.

    Tell you what, I'm going to be in SF in 2 weeks. What is your preference? I can probably convince some women to sell their body for a reasonable fee.*

    *We're still OK with wimmins selling their bodies, right?

  • ||

    And yes, I will put her on a Greyhound. I'm not the kind of guy that would release an Asian woman onto the highways behind the wheel of a car. I don't want to be responsible for the numerous fatalities that will inevitably happen.

  • Tebow||

    Time for my patented 28 points in 36 seconds.

  • RON PAUL HATES AMERICA||

    Ron Paul's supporters are sure of one thing: Their candidate has always been consistent—a point Dr. Paul himself has been making with increasing frequency. It's a thought that comes up with a certain inevitability now in those roundtables on the Republican field. One cable commentator genially instructed us last Friday, "You have to give Paul credit for sticking to his beliefs."

    He was speaking, it's hardly necessary to say, of a man who holds some noteworthy views in a candidate for the presidency of the United States. One who is the best-known of our homegrown propagandists for our chief enemies in the world. One who has made himself a leading spokesman for, and recycler of, the long and familiar litany of charges that point to the United States as a leading agent of evil and injustice, the militarist victimizer of millions who want only to live in peace.

    Enlarge Image

    Getty Images
    GOP presidential contender Ron Paul

    Hear Dr. Paul on the subject of the 9/11 terror attacks—an event, he assures his audiences, that took place only because of U.S. aggression and military actions. True, we've heard the assertions before. But rarely have we heard in any American political figure such exclusive concern for, and appreciation of, the motives of those who attacked us—and so resounding a silence about the suffering of those thousands that the perpetrators of 9/11 set out so deliberately to kill.

    There is among some supporters now drawn to Dr. Paul a tendency to look away from the candidate's reflexive way of assigning the blame for evil—the evil, in particular, of terrorism—to the United States.

    One devout libertarian told me recently that candidate Paul "believes in all the things I do about the menace of government control, and he's a defender of the Constitution—I just intend to take what I like about him." The speaker, educated and highly accomplished in his field (music), is a committed internationalist whose views on American power are polar opposites of those his candidate espouses. No matter. Having tuned out all else that candidate has said—with, yes, perfect consistency—it was enough for him that Dr. Paul upheld libertarian values.

    This admirer is representative of a fair number of people now flocking to the Paul campaign or thinking of doing so. It may come as a surprise to a few of them that in the event of a successful campaign, a President Paul won't be making decisions based just on the parts of his values that his supporters find endearing. He'd be making decisions about the nation's defense, national security, domestic policy and much else. He'd be the official voice of America—and, in one conspicuous regard, a familiar one.

    The world may not be ready for another American president traversing half the globe to apologize for the misdeeds of the nation he had just been elected to lead. Still, it would be hard to find any public figure in America whose views more closely echo those of President Obama on that tour.

    Most of Dr. Paul's supporters, of course, don't actually imagine he can become president. Nor do they dwell on the implications of the enlarged influence conferred on him by a few early primary victories (a third-party run is not something he rules out, the ever-consistent Dr. Paul has repeatedly said under questioning).

    Related Video

    Dorothy Rabinowitz on the blind faith of Ron Paul's devout followers.

    A grandfatherly sort who dispenses family cookbooks on the campaign trail, candidate Paul is entirely aware of the value of being liked. He has of late even tried softening the tone of some of his comments on the crime of foreign aid and such, but it doesn't last long. There he was at the debate last Thursday waving his arms, charging that the U.S. was declaring "war on 1.2 billion Muslims," that it "viewed all Muslims as the same." Yes, he allowed, "there are a few radicals"—and then he proceeded to hold forth again on the good reasons terrorists had for mounting attacks on us.

    His efforts on behalf of Iran's right to the status of misunderstood victim continued apace. On the Hannity show following the debate, Dr. Paul urged the host to understand that Iran's leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had never mentioned any intention of wiping Israel off the map. It was all a mistranslation, he explained. What about Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust? A short silence ensued as the candidate stared into space. He moved quickly on to a more secure subject. "They're just defending themselves," he declared.

    Presumably he was referring to Iran's wishes for a bomb. It would have been intriguing to hear his answer had he been asked about another Ahmadinejad comment, made more than once—the one in which the Iranian leader declares the U.S. "a Satanic power that will, with God's will, be annihilated."

    There can be no confusions about Dr. Paul's own comments about the U.S. After 9/11, he said to students in Iowa, there was "glee in the administration because now we can invade Iraq." It takes a profoundly envenomed mindset—one also deeply at odds with reality—to believe and to say publicly that the administration of this nation brought so low with grief and loss after the attack had reacted with glee. There are, to be sure, a number of like-minded citizens around (see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share). But we don't expect to find their views in people running for the nation's highest office.

    The Paul comment here is worth more than a passing look. It sums up much we have already heard from him. It's the voice of that ideological school whose central doctrine is the proposition that the U.S. is the main cause of misery and terror in the world. The school, for instance, of Barack Obama's former minister famed for his "God d— America" sermons: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, for whom, as for Dr. Paul, the 9/11 terror assault was only a case of victims seeking justice, of "America's chickens coming home to roost."

    Some in Iowa are reportedly now taking a look at Dr. Paul, now risen high in the polls there. He has plenty of money for advertising and is using it, and some may throw their support to him, if only as protest votes. He appears to be gaining some supporters in New Hampshire as well. It seemed improbable that the best-known of American propagandists for our enemies could be near the top of the pack in the Iowa contest, but there it is. An interesting status for a candidate of Dr. Paul's persuasion to have achieved, and he'll achieve even more if Iowans choose to give him a victory.

  • ||

    I think that you hate America, commie.

    What kind of patriotic citizen trolls on Christmas Eve?

  • Gojira||

    The kind who cares so much about our future, that he is selflessly sacrificing his own holiday to troll us with heady doses of truth.

  • ||

    Well, I'm off to the party to drink and be merry.

    Merry Christmas to everyone, even White Indian the bastard.

    Jim, I bid you adieu.

  • Gojira||

    Now who's being anti-American, comrade, using a foreign language.

    A Merry Christmas to you, and I bid you a fond farewell.

  • Old Mexican||

    Merry Christmas, Gojira!

  • Gojira||

    Same to you, OM, and to all our Reason regulars.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: Show yourself coward,

    RON PAUL HATES AMERICA


    The ironic thing is that as more attacks are lobbed at him, the more support he gets. And if he gets the nomination and looks as a sure-win against the Obamanable, it will be too late for the Neo-cons such as Rabinowitz to claim that "He's one of us!"

    He has plenty of money for advertising and is using it, and some may throw their support to him, if only as protest votes.


    Remember back in 2008, when Obama also won thanks to protest votes?

    Thank you, cowardly neo-con twit. Your efforts shall not be in vain.

  • anarch, chanelling Tertullian||

    as more attacks are lobbed at him, the more support he gets.

    It is bait that wins men for (our) school. The oftener we are mown down by you, the more in number we grow.
  • Ted S.||

    tl;dr

  • Sevo||

    "(see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share)"

    I see what you did there.

  • BonoVox||

  • Sky Captain AuH20||

    Goddamnit, I hate this song so fucking much.

  • ||

    It's Christmas Time in California Hell!!!

    Merry Christmas, fuckfaces.

  • ||

    And this song is dedicated to the Three Kings of H&R: Episiarch, Warty and SugarFree. May peace be with you all as you make your way to bless the baby Tebow as he slumbers away in his manger.

  • Old Mexican||

    Merry Christmas, sloopy!

  • The Fixer||

    The Three KingsDicks of H&R: Episiarch, Warty and SugarFree.

  • ||

    Merry Christmas to All!

  • ||

    I'm going to watch "Trading Places", follow that with a marathon of "The Wonder Years", drink myself into a half-dead stupor, and pass out on the local high school's football field.

    Merry Christmas, mother-fuckers.

  • After Election Meeting||

    Matt: Sit down. We have something to talk about.

    [awkward silence]

    Matt: You're strangely silent, Mike. You are usually very chatty on the phone.

    [awkward silence]

    Matt: I mean you'd think you would want me to hear your side of the story . . wait a second . . .

    [Pulls off mask, revealing]

    Matt: David Weigel!?! Goddamn! You did it to me again!

    David Weigel: Reason 0, Journolist 2!

    Matt: Goddamn it!

    David Weigel: See you again in two years, buddy.

    Matt: I'll never hire you again.

    David Weigel: Yes, you will.
    [puts his index finger up to his nose like a fake mustache]
    Greetings senor! Meet Manuel Trujillo. Mexico's hippest libertarian journalist.

    Matt: I'm honored to meet you, good sir.

  •  ||

    C-

  • T^||

    You grading curve, rather, is your ultradian rhythmic cycle of mania and depression, so it can't be counted on.

  • ||

    Thanks to OM for posting the entirety of the CNN / RP interview.

    Looks like lots of posters have some splainin' to do.

  • ||

    If you dudes have some free time to kill, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBaxSqYFRow

    You will shit bricks at the dumbfuckery

  • Gojira||

    I've got enough problems with my hemorrhoids as it is; I don't think passing bricks is going to help the situation.

  • Marshal Shareef||

    Except for the, 'don't just walk around this block, there are murderers all around', and guilting the girl with 'that homeless guy you bummed a cigarette from broke the rules, got kicked out, now he's on the street with MURDERERS', I have to say that was pretty incredible. Those British kids seemed about an inch deep in content before that dad's methods broke them down.

    Incidentally, it was the operator not the dad telling them bogeyman stories of life in downtown Birmingham, so he couldn't really be blamed for that BS.

  • Gojira||

    And to everyone here at H&R, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year. Please sit back and relax and gather your family to enjoy this Christmas classic.

  • ||

    trolololol

  • ||

    And a poor one at that. (But still better than "tubgirl," which the spam filter just kept me from posting.)

  • ||

    I also would like to wish each and every one of you a Merry Christmas. I propose for this holiday season, we all post a bizarre picture we can find in 3 minutes or less. I'll start. Enjoy!

  • Gojira||

    Too easy.

  • ||

    I forgot to say: no family photos.

    Try again, Jim.

  • Gojira||

    That's me on the left.

  • Gojira||

    I found one of you writing all those alimony and child support checks.

    http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/80546212/

  • ||

    http://img692.imageshack.us/im.....733851.jpg

    And Sloopy, whaddaya say we discard that "bizarre" part of your suggestion and post naked chicks and funny shit, too?

  • ||

    I'm with you.

    And in the vein of your above photo: Here's this.

  • Gojira||

    And in response to your questions upthread, I'm really not particular. Just no fatties, and no Filipinas. I've had my problems with them in the past.

  • ||

    Filipinas don't count as Asians anyway, do they?

  • Gojira||

    Eh, they claim to, but I think it's just a desperate attempt to identify themselves with a successful culture, since they're mostly known for sex tourism.

  • ||

    So, they're like shorter, yellower Canadians?

  • Gojira||

    More brown than yellow. They've got too much of that Pacific Islander in them.

    Though how they haven't produced an entire generation of pale-face children with that massive American naval base there is beyond me.

  • ||

  • Gojira||

    I'm going to have to try that next time I'm expecting a package.

  • db||

    Just post a signed note authorizing them to leave the package. The signature is what lets them do it.

  • Ted S.||

    I posted this here last night before all the old comments disappeared:

    Merry Christmas from your Green Bay Packers tight ends

  • Gojira||

  • Gojira||

  • ||

  • ||

  • ||

  • ||

  • Gojira||

    I think sloopy passed out drunk already.

    Or beat off to that octopus pron and fell asleep.

  • ||

    True story: a few years back, pretty much everybody but me and a few others got wasted at a New Year's Eve party, including my brother -- he was sitting at his computer, and since I wasn't exactly totally sober, it took me about 30 seconds of staring to realize he was getting a blowjob by a chick semi-hidden by his chair and bed.

    I was really envious, because I didn't get laid that night.

    Maybe Sloopy's off on a similar adventure, among the stars. *Gaze of longing*

  • Perv||

    Thanks for sharing. Fascinating story!

  • ||

    Fuck this echo chamber, homeboys! *Pops collar like a G* Holler when y'all drag yo asses BACK to the T&A picture contest.

  • Sky Captain AuH20||

    By the way, have a Merry Christmas you insufferable cockpunches. Each and every one of you. Even Matt Welch!

  • ||

    "Sky Captain"? Real bros stick to Skyrim, yo.

  • The Drunks||

    Thish ish like the worsh chatroom ever.

  • Anthony Weiner||

    How ya doin'?

  • ||

    Holy Mary, Mother of God!

  • ||

    So solly, guys. I was teaching my son how to play Assasin's Creed.

    Anyone know where I can find a Hand Bra in a 34 C before the stores close?

  • ||

    Local crackhouse should work!


    ---

    ---

    Trololooolol

  • PantsFan||

  • ||

    Not to get OT, but I want your opinions on this bullshit. Some of these just don't make a bit of sense.

  • ||

    That militant quasi-Stalinist candidate in The Ides of March movie recently released wins this, hands down -- it's all scary as shit, and Kruger ain't got shit on him (you'll understand if you've seen the movie)

  • ||

    Never saw that one. I'm still wondering how Norman Bates takes out Jason in Round 1. Besides, that bracket isn't legit without Warty doing what he does.

  • chris||

    What do kitten videos have to do with it? Speaking of kitten videos, where are kitten videos? It's been a while.

  • ||

    Patrick Bateman seeded 16th? WTF? He should've at least made it to the quarters.

  • ||

    http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/762/465pi.jpg

    Tell me you wouldn't want into the shower with THAT and do unspeakable things to it

  • ||

  • ||

  • Sevo||

    As a non-bleever, I wish (most) all of you a Happy Holiday!
    And may Santa have brought what you wished for.

  • Sevo||

    And to the benighted NK population, a hope that the thugs lose in the future:
    "Workers at beverage kiosks handed steaming cups of water to shivering mourners,"
    No bread with your bread and water?
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....455S04.DTL

  • PantsFan||

    I'm drunk and because I'm not a scrooge, I gave the Domestic staff the rest of the night off. Now I'm hungry and there's nobody to make me a sammich until 6am when the cook comes back.

  • ||

    Would you like some steak?

  • PantsFan||

    Beats fishheads.

  • ||

    Let's do some Clash.

  • SIV||

  • PantsFan||

    Ladies and Gentlemen, The Clash

  • ||

    Sweet. My favorite performance/interview on Tom Snyder. It is heartbreaking that she offed herself.

  • SIV||

    Merry Christmas!
    Especially to you atheistic cosmotarian fucks.

    NEVER FORGET! Why We Fight

  • PantsFan||

    I'm watching Blackadder's Christmas.
    Now that's comedy.

  • ||

    http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7272/204ie.jpg

    This chick's wishing you a merry fuckin' Christmas, dudes and dudettes!

  • SIV||

  • PantsFan||

    In College Bowl Pick-em news, Citizen Nothing is about to lose his undefeated status, being the only one to pick Nevada in the Hawaii Bowl.

  • ||

    Bananarama is one of the fucking worse bands evah. I for the the fucking life of me cannot figure out how the hell they ever got signed (let alone how the hell they became so popular, which makes me lose complete faith in humanity). The only theory I have is a record producer had to have been completely shitfaced at a bar when he signed them while they were singing earsplitting, horrendous karaoke.

    Oh, and Merry Christmas.

  • PantsFan||

    and to this day Susanna Hoffs is still hot.

  • ||

    Indeed, small women tend to age well. I think I will continue to be carded for another decade.

  • chris||

  • chris||

    Oh, NSFW if you are driving a slay at the moment.

  • Arduin Grimoire||

    Merry Golden Xmas to you all.

    Warty's vagina > Tebow

  • PantsFan||

    do they show Mantracker in the US?

  • ||

    Nice takedown of Keynes and his zombie horde.

  • chris||

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=V72fxB.....5w&cad=rja

    Someone said it was Christmas
    But not a tree was in sight
    The only thing growin' was my will to die
    Till the gaffer said 'men, your work here is done'
    I said 'I'll see you in Hell, on that train we died for'
    Never again, will I smell your sweet dream
    But a pissed stained ol' gutter where:
    You lips used to be

    Far Away Boys, Far Away Boys
    Away from ya now
    I'm lyin' with my sweetheart
    In her arms I'll be found

  • ||

    Here's my nice Christmas story. The flat has been smelling insanely like piss for the last few days. We have four cats but change the litter quite often and it never smells.

    Finally figured out it was the Christmas tree. Apparently, while it was sitting around waiting to be sold in the open air pavilion, every dog owner in Prague let their dog piss on our tree. So I had to defrock it and toss the thing out this Christmas morning and after a couple of hours of letting the icy air in, our flat finally smells decent. The five-year-old wasn't happy.

  • Underzog||

    Merry Christmas, Reasonoids: Do You Hear What I Hear

  • Realist||

    Why would anyone care what some shit head from MSNBC "thinks"?

  • Surrealist||

    Why would anyone comment about not caring about what anyone thinks about?

  • Suki||

    Merry Christmas reason!

  • Ubiquitous Injun||

    Humbug!

  • Dear reason™,||

    Care to apologize for (carelessly or maliciously) spreading around the deception that Ron Paul stormed out of a CNN interview?

  • ||

    Merry Christmas Reason, I bestow upon thee the genius that is Malignus Youth. If masses were like this, I would start attending again.

  • Obama The Jaunty Santa||

    "...Merry Xmas to all my fellow Americans. As you all know, I'm on a Five-Million-Dollar Hawaiian vacation. I'm hacking the back nine while the First Lady is paralyzed after stuffing herself to the gills on Kahlua pork.

    Clearly, I will be campaigning again for 2012. I will mention some of my personal achievements: I captured Bin Laden, toppled Gaddafi and ENDED the Iraq war. Building on my successes I am pleased to report progress in the subjugation of resource-rich Northern Africa. Our killer-drone program is working, and only a few thousand innocent children have been killed while we bring freedom to the masses with the prospect of JOBS for Western security, oil and construction companies. In Afghanistan, extermination of terrorists is almost complete -- again civilian casualties could not be avoided -- but I say it is worth it. Under my watch only a couple of thousand American lives were lost. Intelligence agencies calculate that there are three or four terrorists left hiding under rocks and we plan to deploy until 2024 and keep the kinetic costs trimmed to under a trillion dollars per year. Again, this is a vital jobs program that keeps the Homeland secure.

    The Homeland: While some naysayers lament the loss of free speech under my administration, I have replaced free speech with free other things. For example, I plan to provide TWO, not ONE Obama Volt Electric Auto for every garage. For households with one-car garages, I will demand the obstructionist Republicans in Congress provide subsidies for converting to a two-car garage.

    Finally, I am saddened to hear of Kim Il Jong's demise. He provided free health care to his struggling masses while providing an excellent jobs program with the DRPK Military..."

  • Tim||

    Thread fail.. Merry Christmas!

  • ||

    Who can forget the CCC, the greatest gomt administered job-creation program since the NEP?

  • توقعات الابراج||

  • ||

    To discover the importance of government jobs in our economy, just try to cancel all government contracts

  • ||

    "Karl Marx said that. Yes, Mr. O’Donnell, Karl Marx understood that exertion aimed at making things no one wants is not real labor."

    Aha! Now I know why O'Donnell is so perpetually pissed. He doesn't have a job.

  • دردشة العراق||

    Thank you

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