The Volokh Conspiracy
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Second Amendment Roundup: Hawaii's Ban on Firearms on Property Open to the Public
In Wolford, the Supreme Court should clarify the facial/as-applied issue.
As we have been posting, on January 20, the Supreme Court will hear oral argument in Wolford v. Lopez, where the question presented is: "Whether the Ninth Circuit erred in holding, in direct conflict with the Second Circuit, that Hawaii may presumptively prohibit the carry of handguns by licensed concealed carry permit holders on private property open to the public unless the property owner affirmatively gives express permission to the handgun carrier?"
Hawaii's Act 52 provides that a licensee may not "enter or remain on private property of another person while carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm … unless the person has been given express authority." It applies regardless of whether the property is open to the public. Since the challengers disown contesting the constitutionality of the ban on private property not open to the public, can it be said that the law is not unconstitutional in all applications? No, because one part of a law may be facially unconstitutional, and another part of the law may not be.
Moreover, although plaintiffs formally state that their challenge is both facial and as applied, is there any real difference here? "As applied" normally refers to application to specific plaintiffs, and if their claim is valid here, the law is unconstitutional as applied to everyone. (By contrast, there was a reason Mr. Rahimi, a bad dude, forewent a challenge as applied to himself.)
In Respondent's Brief, Hawaii argues that the petitioners have "made an all-or-nothing argument akin to a facial challenge and, having done so, they cannot succeed unless 'no set of circumstances exists under which the [law] would be valid' as applied to private property open to the public." The quoted wording is from Rahimi and derived from Salerno. (That apparently refers to the separate "sensitive places" bans that would apply to places open to the public.) While Hawaii did not make a full-fledged argument on that basis, this would be a good opportunity for the Court to clarify the issue, as the law here poses the same question on which other courts have been grappling.
In particular, as I posted here, the Fourth Circuit held in LaFave v. Fairfax County, Va. (2025), that a ban on firearms in the public parks, which are mostly wooded and twice the size of Manhattan, is not facially unconstitutional because of the existence of four preschools on a tiny portion of the parkland. No matter that no element of the offense pertains to schools or that state law separately bans firearms in schools.
Similarly, as posted here, in oral argument before the Second Circuit about another park ban, Christian v. James, 25-384-cv, New York's attorney argued that "if 99% of a law is unconstitutional, but is 1% ok," it is valid because it has a constitutional application. While that case has not yet been decided, in Antonyuk v. James (2024) the Second Circuit held that because (supposedly) "the law has a plainly legitimate sweep as to urban parks, the facial challenge fails notwithstanding doubt that there is historical support for the regulation of firearms in wilderness parks, forests, and reserves." Despite that concession, the court did not enjoin enforcement in such rural areas.
In Knife Rights v. Bondi, pending in the Fifth Circuit, the United States argues that the federal Switchblade Knife Act is not facially unconstitutional because it can be validly applied on military bases and courthouses, even though it does not mention such places. Its ban on crossing state lines with such arms operates essentially as a ban on them. (If truth be told, the law was a silly reaction to use by fictional gangs of push-button knives in movies like Rebel Without a Cause and West Side Story.)
Such decisions and arguments are completely adverse to how the Supreme Court decides Second Amendment cases. Heller declared D.C.'s handgun ban unconstitutional even though it said in dicta that bans on handguns in felons' possession or in schools were presumptively valid. The Court confirmed in City of Los Angeles v. Patel (2015) that Heller involved a "facial challenge." And in Bruen, the Court wrote that "there is no historical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a 'sensitive place' simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Police Department." Or because it is filled with courts and schools, where firearms may not be carried.
By contrast, Rahimi held that the ban on gun possession by a person found by a court to represent a credible threat to the physical safety of an intimate partner or child is not facially unconstitutional. Nor was the Bail Reform Act upheld in Salerno, because it required the court to find with clear and convincing evidence that no release conditions of an arrestee will reasonably assure the safety of any other person and the community. Both laws require a judicial finding of specific persons of dangerousness. In other words, in both cases the laws required a finding of the key constitutional facts.
By contrast, some lower courts have invented hypothetical statutes and then assert that because the hypothetical statute that the legislature could have enacted (but did not) would be constitutional under the Second Amendment, then the actual, real-world statute is also constitutional for the same reasons. Not only is this not what Salerno or Rahimi said, but it also violates the separation of powers because such courts purport to rewrite a statute into a new one that does not exist.
At bottom, whether a firearm prohibition facially violates the Second Amendment raises two questions. First, what are the elements of the offense of the law at issue? Second, does the crime as defined survive Second Amendment scrutiny as decided by Heller, Bruen, and Rahimi? Conjuring up a parade of horribles of activities beyond what the statute encompasses is not part of that exercise.
Dismissal of Second Amendment challenges based on an overly-formal dichotomy between facial and as-applied characterizations misunderstands how the Supreme Court sees the differences. As the Court explained in Citizens United v. Federal Election Comm'n (2010), "the distinction between facial and as-applied challenges is not so well defined that it has some automatic effect or that it must always control the pleadings and disposition in every case involving a constitutional challenge." Instead, "it goes to the breadth of the remedy employed by the Court, not what must be pleaded in a complaint." Wolford poses an appropriate opportunity for the Court to bring lower courts in line with its Second Amendment jurisprudence.
For further analysis explaining why cases like Antonyuk and Lafave have erred in their approach to facial challenges, see Peter A. Patterson, Facial Confusion: Lower Court Misapplication of the Facial/As-Applied Distinction in Second Amendment Cases, 19 Harv. J. L. & Pub. Pol'y Per Curiam 1, 2 (2025). Mr. Patterson is my co-counsel on a cert petition being filed in LaFave.
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"Whether the Ninth Circuit erred in holding, in direct conflict with the Second Circuit, that Hawaii may presumptively prohibit the carry of handguns by licensed concealed carry permit holders on private property open to the public unless the property owner affirmatively gives express permission to the handgun carrier?"
A textbook definition of an infringement.
That's my problem with this whole doctrine. A law banning all guns to all people at all times would not be facially unconstitutional as it has some lawful applications---that is that at least some guns can be banned to some people at some times.
No arms can be banned at any time.
" . . . shall not be infringed.".
All citizens should be armed, and "well regulated" (i.e. trained) in order to be able to form a militia unit capable of fighting an army.
I must be illiterate. These two passages contradict each other.
Even aside from contradicting each other, how can banning all guns not be infringing? Either I'm unusually dense, or you've got lawyerese on the brain, or you're just another living constitution hoplophobe.
It's because you're unusually dense and not getting his point. His point is to criticize the facial-challenge jurisprudence of judges who are hostile to gun rights.
Illiterate, no. But maybe not fully up to speed on the details of how facial challenges are evaluated (as opposed to 'as-applied' challenges). A facial challenge says 'I believe X is unconstitutional in every possible scenario' while an as-applied challenge says 'I believe X is unconstitutional in my particular scenario' with the implied 'it might be constitutional in some other scenario but that's not my fight'.
Applying that to guns, first assume that you agree that it's constitutional to ban elementary school students from bringing guns to school. Most people would argue that's okay. Now pass a law banning all guns from national forests. Most people would say that's not okay. Plot twist - there's one national forest with four small schools tucked away in corners of the property. You want to challenge the obviously-wrong sweeping ban on guns in the forests. Under the current rules for facial challenges, you'll lose because the law is constitutional in four tiny scenarios that are those schools. You must instead bring an as-applied challenge saying that the law can't be enforced on you because you weren't anywhere near those schools. The mere existence of any possible exception, no matter how tiny, makes facial challenges to constitutionality impossible.
What I think wv is also saying (and I strongly believe) is that the whole facial vs as-applied distinction is deeply broken, especially when courts have the discretion to ignore the plaintiff's own claims about whether he/she is making a facial or as-applied attack on the law.
Well alrighty then! Yes, I did not know there was such a distinction, but I was right about lawyerese being at the heart of the problem. Prof Volokh is right: lawyers' true super power is turning every question into a question of procedure. Although I bet some lawyer will say this isn't a procedural distinction, demonstrating his own super duper power of turning every question into a quibble.
If I understand it correctly, the doctrine isn't that.
Suppose you enacted a law that made the use of printing presses illegal. It would presumably be constitutional if you applied it to somebody using a printing press as an instrument of murder, dropping it from a building onto somebody, say.
But that wouldn't cut it, the whole law is unconstitutional. Why?
Because the test isn't whether the law might occasionally by coincidence have some constitutional applications. The test is whether the law can plausibly be construed in such a way that its application is generally constitutional, even if there might be occasional exceptions.
So, you enact a law saying felons can't have guns. Now, wait a gosh darn moment, the law makes it a felony for most people to pick up an Eagle feather! The courts (except the ones that hate the 2nd amendment to begin with.) are not going to accept that it's legitimate to strip somebody of their 2nd amendment rights because they picked up a feather.
So it's unconstitutional as applied to that specific case.
But it can be construed to only apply to felony felonies, actual serious crimes, so it escapes being facially unconstitutional.
This case reminds me of my oft-repeated lament that gun-rights advocates don't use substantive due process as a means of expanding gun rights. Let me be clear from the outset: Substantive due process is a dumb concept. But it's been accepted as legitimate by the Court, so there's no reason to not utilize it.
So, in addition to any 2nd and 14th Amendment arguments, I would argue that I have a right to carry arms onto private property unless specifically told otherwise because such a right is an emanation from the penumbras of the Bill of Rights. I would also stamp this quote from Lawrence v. Texas at the front of my argument section:
"Had those who drew and ratified the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth Amendment or the Fourteenth Amendment known the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities, they might have been more specific. They did not presume to have this insight. They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom."
Voila! I have expanded gun rights because I can search for new freedoms, and break the shackles of older generations that only sought to oppress me.
Certain people might not like substantive due process, but it's right there for the taking. It either helps you get greater gun rights, or it shows the stupidity of the doctrine. Any good advocate should be utilizing it.
"Voila! I have expanded gun rights because I can search for new freedoms"
Try this instead: don't look for rights. Look for enumerated powers that are allowed to cabin the rights.
That's easy: There aren't any.
Lacking an enumerated power, the federal government isn't supposed to do ANYTHING. What the rights do is further establish that, even with an enumerated power, you can't do certain things.
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