The Volokh Conspiracy
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Roe as Humphrey's Executor, Casey as Morrison, and Dobbs as Slaughter
Casey attempted to save Roe by rewriting it, but that compromise ultimately collapsed in Dobbs. Morrison attempted to save Humphrey's Executor by rewriting it, but that compromise will (likely) collapse in Slaughter.
The Supreme Court's abortion jurisprudence can be plotted as three primary points: Roe v. Wade, Planned Parenthood v. Casey, and Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. The line between these precedents was not straight. Indeed, Casey effectively rewrote Roe; Casey abandoned Roe's trimester framework; Casey found that the state has "legitimate interests" from the outset of pregnancy to protect both the health of the woman and the life of the fetus; Casey abandoned Roe's application of strict scrutiny to protect the "fundamental" right to abortion. In dissent, Justice Scalia rebuked the majority for preaching fidelity to stare decisis while rewriting precedent. He famously wrote, "I confess never to have heard of this new, keep-what-you-want-and-throw-away-the-rest version." Justices O'Connor, Kennedy, and Souter tried to "call[] the contending sides of a national controversy to end their national division by accepting a common mandate rooted in the Constitution." But these judges of wisdom grossly erred in their judgment. Casey did little to settle the contentious debates over abortion. And in Dobbs, the Supreme Court at last extricated the judiciary from this conflict.
There are parallels between the three primary abortion cases and the three primary removal power cases: Humphrey's Executor, Morrison v. Olson, and now Slaughter. Humphrey's Executor established a rule with no basis in the Constitution that shifted power from the executive branch to the legislative branch. In much the same way, Roe v. Wade established a rule with no basis in the Constitution that shifted power in a different direction--from the popular branches to the judiciary. As Justice Gorsuch quipped in Slaughter, the Court invented "quasi" things. And just like Casey rewrote Roe, Chief Justice Rehnquist, recognizing how problematic Humphrey's Executor was, had to rewrite the precedent to save it. Like in Casey, decided several years later, Justice Scalia pointed out the Morrison majority failed to adhere to stare decisis. Scalia quipped, "Humphrey's Executor is swept into the dustbin of repudiated constitutional principles," but he would not "grieve for the shoddy treatment given today to Humphrey's Executor, which, after all, accorded the same indignity (with much less justification)" to Myers v. United States. During oral argument in Slaughter, John Sauer explained that Morrison "gutted and refurbished" Humphrey's Executor, and "repudiated correctly the idea that there are these quasi-judicial and quasi-legislative powers that are outside the executive power." For decades, Casey was been under relentless attack. And for much the same time, Morrison has faced similar pressure. Humphrey's Executor still comes as a wolf, or as John Sauer explained, the Fenris. And since the Morrison compromise cannot hold, Humphrey's Executor should, and likely will be reversed in Slaughter.
There are some further parallels. Humphrey's Executor shifted power from the executive branch to the legislative branch. Morrison v. Olson upheld most of that shift, but purported to place some limits. Roe v. Wade shifted power from the popular branches to the judiciary. Casey upheld most of that shift, but purported to place some limits. Both Humphrey's Executor and Roe v. Wade distorted political accountability, by moving power away from those who are charged with exercising that power: the executive surrendered their executive power to "independent" agencies, and the states surrendered their police power to the courts.
There are also some differences.Ted Olson did not ask the Supreme Court to overrule Humphrey's Executor in Morrison v. Olson, though the United States asked the Court to overrule Roe in Casey. In both Morrison and Casey, Justice Scalia pointed out that the Court felt compelled to rewrite a decaying precedent as a means of saving it. In Slaughter, the executive branch has squarely asked the Court to overrule Humphrey's Executor. Solicitor General Sauer accurately described Humphrey's Executor as a "decaying husk with bold and particularly dangerous pretensions," that has been "thoroughly" eroded by Morrison, as well as Trump v. United States (more on that case in a future post.).
Morrison v. Olson is not directly at issue in Slaughter, but any decision overruling Humphrey's Executor will vindicate Justice Scalia, whom Sauer rightly called "one of the greatest jurists in the history of the Court." And if Humphrey's Executor is overruled, I do not think the independent counsel statute could ever be resurrected, and the special counsel regulations likely would not stand.
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Humphrey's Executor established a rule with no basis in the Constitution that shifted power from the executive branch to the legislative branch.
No matter how often you say it, it doesn’t change the fact that this is complete BS. The King hath no power but what the common law allows.
Please cite the language within the Constitution which allows for usurpation by one branch of the government of the powers of another branch.
The citation in the constitution are the two clauses that state thou shall construe all laws that favor the administrative state and the clause that requires the SC to follow unconstitutional precedent if it fits the woke leftists agenda . an example is Kelo.
Mmmmm! That's good question begging!
Verily, it appears that he hath no retort to thine request for actual constitutional language. Methinks perhaps because there is none.
The Constitution is one of enumerated powers, not implied read-between-the lines powers.
Congress alone has the powers to make the laws for the Government.
A1S9: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
Other Executive Branch Officers exist and have duties, thus no "unitary executive".
A2S2: "he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices,"
The President is bound by federal law.
A2S3: "he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"
There is zero mention of the President being able to fire EB officers. The line "The executive Power shall be vested in a President" can not be read to invalidate what I quoted. The founders did not hide a vast presidential power in those 8 words.
The independent agencies are accountable to Congress (and thus the people) and managed by the President. Not complicated.
I would not presume to engage you on your silly general conclusions desperately in search of support. A truly impressive combination of illogic and faulty reasoning, sprinkled in with a healthy helping of constitutional ignorance. When you can find someone, or some AI tool, to craft a legitimate argument based on the constitution, feel free to get back to me.
Do you have a specific issue with what I wrote are just too lame to admit that I am right?
You don't make an argument, you make statements that reflect your biased conclusions. "The line 'The executive Power shall be vested in a President' can not be read to invalidate what I quoted." What? Because you say so. And if what follows is an "answer," ("The founders did not hide a vast presidential power in those 8 words.") it's just another empty conclusory remark that essentially restates the prior conclusory opinion. And we could keep going in this circle forever I guess.
What the founders did do was write a Constitution with a specific, clear structure of separated powers that vests Executive power in the President. The clause is not "hiding." The plain text is not my opinion. We don't need to guess or make up other "quasi" clauses like Humphrey's Executor. You simply don't like that arrangement and would prefer a different division of powers. Tough crap. If you don't like the Constitution, argue for its amendment. It has been amended before, just so you know.
My interpretation follows the text of the constitution far better than yours does. You are making up a vast power, one that contradicts other parts of the constitution, out of an introductory line that has no specifics, and ignoring the specifics that come after.
The vesting clauses are not mere "introductory lines." They define the constitutional structure. And the executive Power covers a wide range of tasks that cannot be and is not fully itemized in advance. And, as noted, your conclusion is simply a reflection of your bias for a different division of power.
The President is bound by federal law.
A2S3: "he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"
There's a difference between general laws, and Congress trying to pass laws directing the president how to use his constitutionally-assigned powers.
Firing people is not a constitutionally-assigned power.
Please cite the language within the Constitution which says that one of the powers of the president is the power to fire people without cause.
The president the top dog in the executive branch. Your question is inane
Notably, the phrase "The president the top dog in the executive branch" is not in the constitution, nor do those words — even if they were in there — specify that "one of the powers of the president is the power to fire people without cause."
If you couldn’t answer, you should've just said so.
Yeah, it is, although it's more commonly referred to as the Executive Vesting Clause. What is notable is that, apart from the aforementioned clause, the Legislative Vesting Clause and the Judicial Vesting Clause, there are no other such vesting clauses, "quasi" or otherwise. Not even on the back.
A novel approach to abortion in the law comes from the constitutional ban on Bills of Attainder. Most have no idea what 'attainder' is. I only found one court case using Bill of Attainder in the complaint, but it was used incorrectly. Ironically, it was a case filed by an abortionist!
“Bills of attainder . . . are such special acts of the legislature, as inflict capital punishments upon persons supposed to be guilty of high offences . . . without any conviction in the ordinary course of judicial proceedings." J. Story, ‘Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States’ 1338 (1833)
Now, what does attainder have to do with a doomed fetus? The only element not met is 'high offences,' but of all involved in the conspiracy to put the fetus to death, he, or she, is the only one innocent of wrongdoing--yet is summarily condemned to death through a state or federal abortion law.
In 99% of abortion cases, the only 'offence' by the fetus is being unwanted due to the mother engaging in pre-marital sex with an unreliable father. Hell, in most cities, being unwanted and vagrant is no longer a crime, but it is for a fetus.
Josh:
This is a great analogy. First time I've seen it. The false logic of each is then "repaired" with judicial duct tape until the next case reveals the weakness of that approach.
best
jjv
Here was a quote from tghe brief
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/25/25-332/379414/20251010163717598_25-332PetrBr.pdf
On that view, Congress could wrest the entire Executive Branch from the President by converting every department into a multimember agency.
Not only that, under this interpretation by the respondents, Congress could have a trimuvirate control the rest of the Executive Branch apart from the President.
Assuming they can get past his veto, they could. And they could pass all kinds of laws hamstringing him, and give him mandatory programs to run and no money to spend. Does the fact that they have the power to do stupid things mean they will?
(well, maybe sometimes)
Co-equal is a myth. The Constitution was designed with Congress in charge. That's why they can fire the President, but the President can't fire Congress.
The little flaw to your logic is that Congress can impeach and remove the president only because the constitution specifically allows them to impeach and remove the president. The constitution would not allow the legislature to usurp the executive power of the party actually vested with all executive power.
The powers of the president are enumerated, and there are not that many of them.
Do you happen to clerk for Justice Jackson? just curious.
Actually, Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, 597 U.S. 215 (2022), is a logical extension of the reasoning of Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927). If one accepts the premise that functionaries of a state (or commonwealth) have any business deciding who does or does not reproduce, the rest is just haggling over the cost to the brood mare's autonomy.
The nut graph of Dobbs states in part:
142 S.Ct. at 2284. Let's test the limits of that statement by means of a hypothetical.
Suppose a state enacts a statute imposing a criminal penalty on any female under the age of twenty-one who gives birth within the boundaries of the state. That qualifies as "[a] law regulating abortion," in that it would inevitably increase the demand for abortion in that state. (Hey -- prohibiting Roscoe Filburn from growing wheat to feed animals on his own farm during the 1940s qualified as a measure regulating interstate commerce. That nexus is much more tenuous than my hypothetical here.)
There are numerous governmental interests that a legislature could think that imposing a minimum age for childbirth would further. Legislators could rationally believe that older females are more likely than adolescents to bear healthier babies. They could rationally believe that more mature mothers, whose brains are more completely developed, are likely to make better childrearing decisions than teen mothers. They could rationally believe that deferring childbirth could lessen the likelihood that a mother and her offspring would require public assistance. "[A] State has a valid interest in preserving the fiscal integrity of its programs. It may legitimately attempt to limit its expenditures, whether for public assistance, public education, or any other program." Shapiro v. Thompson, 394 U.S. 618, 633 (1969).
I have no illusions that any state would actually enact such a restriction on childbearing, but there is a reason it's called a hypothetical.
The Constitution does tolerate ill-willed, ill-advised policies.
Or one could completely reject your insane mischaracterization of the issue as state "functionaries..deciding who does or does not reproduce." That was not the issue and that is not the law after Dobbs.
It takes a certain…something…to equate a government mandate of bodily mutilation with the government protecting people from murder. But you do you.
Casey found that the state has "legitimate interests" from the outset of pregnancy to protect both the health of the woman and the life of the fetus.
A state had legitimate interests in those areas before Casey. The change was the breadth of regulation allowed.
Roe allowed the state to require abortions to be performed by a physician with informed consent, with certain recordkeeping requirements. In the first trimester. The state could also advance the interests of health by providing Medicaid funding.
Likewise, the state had a "legitimate interest" in protecting potential life, including embryos. The state's interest became "compelling" at viability. That is, it could override the right to choose an abortion except in narrow cases.
Nonetheless, the state could protect potential life before then. For instance, by providing health education to promote the health of the embryo. Or addressing environmental pollution that might negatively affect unborn life.
Roe very well has a 'basis in the Constitution' in a variety of respects. Seven justices and a variety of lower court judges joined in explanations of why.
Likewise, Justices Holmes, Brandeis, and McReynolds explained the constitutional basis of refuting the majority opinion in Myers v. U.S. while Justice George Sutherland, a conservative, for eight justices (McReynolds concurred separately) explained, partially with reference to history (like Brandeis and McReynolds did) how Humphrey's Executors is constitutionally based.
In honor of the great Justice Scalia:
But "reasoned judgment" does not begin by begging the question, as Roe and subsequent cases unquestionably did by assuming that what the State is protecting is the mere "potentiality of human life." See, e. g., Roe, supra, at 162; Planned Parenthood of Central Mo. v. Danforth, 428 U. S. 52, 61 (1976); Colautti v. Franklin, 439 U. S. 379, 386 (1979); Akron v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health, Inc., 462 U. S. 416, 428 (1983) (Akron I); Planned Parenthood Assn. of Kansas City, Mo., Inc. v. Ashcroft, 462 U. S. 476, 482 (1983). The whole argument of abortion opponents is that what the Court calls the fetus and what others call the unborn child is a human life.
I beg to differ. There is no argument, amongst the sane, as to whether or not an unborn human is a human life. Any more than there is an argument about any other organism created by sexual reproduction. The organism’s life begins with the fusion of the two gametes.
The abortion argument is about whether and when the unborn human becomes morally valuable enough to be afforded a legal right not to be deliberately killed. And how, if at all, such a right measures up against the mother’s right to property in her own person.
Pro choicers do often rhetorically insist that humans, unlike cattle, snakes and dung beetles somehow manage to postpone becoming alive until they have - despite purportedly not being alive - undergone many cell differentiations and multi billions of cell multiplications - a remarkable achievement for an inanimate object - but that is just pretending, they don’t really believe it. Only the rubiest of rubes are actually that ignorant of biology.
Though to be fair even intelligent people used to think that babies only became alive at “quickening” ie when the baby was developed enough to make itself felt to its mother. But scientific knowledge has moved on a little over past few hundred years.
by assuming that what the State is protecting is the mere "potentiality of human life"
Roe noted that the government had authority when "at least potential life is involved" without assuming "mere" potential life was involved. It specifically avoided "adopting one theory of life."
If you're challenging Scalia, you're out of your league. And your comment is nonsensical. That Courts in Roe and subsequently absolutely adopted a "theory of life," they assumed it was not a life. Just like you do above.
I'm sorry if I committed blasphemy in challenging St. Scalia, but I hold to what they said. They specifically left the issue open, noting in Casey it was a matter of conscience to determine within certain boundaries on the meaning of life in this context.
Basing their reasoning on a premise that assumes the unborn child is not a life is not leaving the issue open. It is assuming the biased (and incorrect) views of certain pro abortion advocates. And, in the minds of authors of Casey, they were settling matters for we mere mortals who would be tested by following. If you like an imperial judiciary, you have to love Casey.
You just couldn’t resist converting “life of the fetus” into “potential life, including embryos” could you ?
Confirming your extreme reluctance to acknowledge biological reality. A human embryo like a human fetus and like a human zygote is already an ACTUAL live human, not a potential one.
It may or may not be a “person” within the meaning of the constitution. It may or may not be a live human worth preserving, but pretending that it’s not already a live human merely demonstrates your own queasiness about your position.
I was alluding to Roe, which noted:
Logically, of course, a legitimate state interest in this area need not stand or fall on acceptance of the belief that life begins at conception or at some other point prior to live birth. In assessing the State's interest, recognition may be given to the less rigid claim that as long as at least potential life is involved, the State may assert interests beyond the protection of the pregnant woman alone.
This, if anything, expands the government's authority to protect "life" even to the degree of protecting its "potential."
I don't think "fetus" is often appropriate since a "fetus" is not actually present from conception. The term is misleading. It cites an entity more developed than often is in place in this context.
The terms here have a variety of nuances. People readily grant that a fertilized egg is an egg of a homo sapien, a human egg, and that is a form of "life" as a skin cell is "alive."
OTOH, there is a wider debate over saying a fertilized egg is a "human" as such. Or a "live human." It's a fertilized egg. People regularly don't talk about it being a "live human." That term is often only applied to a more developed entity.
The term "potential life" in Roe reflects the varying understandings of the term "life." The Due Process Clause uses the word "life," and it is not presumptively merely about biology. It's a complex term used in various ways in law, philosophy, and religion.
So, for instance, Justice Tom Clark in a religious-sponsored law review noted, "When sperm meets egg, life may eventually form, but quite often it does not." Religion, Morality, and Abortion: A Constitutional Appraisal, 2 Loyola U. (L.A.) L.Rev. 1, 9-10 (1969).
Clark knew in some sense that a fertilized egg is "alive." But "life" in this context has a broader meaning. Roe recognized the complex understanding of when "life" exists. So, it carefully used the term "potential life" to reflect various schools of thought.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2582082
I'm not "pretending" -- I'm using complex terminology with various nuances. Perhaps, fewer assumptions about my "queasiness" or "what I can't resist," etc., might be helpful.
I'm not "pretending" -- I'm using complex terminology with various nuances.
Nah, you're pretending. Your "nuance" is simply rhetorically convenient redefinition and circumlocution - invented by greater nuancers before you. Abortion is a particularly fruitful field for such semantic tomfoolery - those whose political desires dare not speak their names have gone so far as to redefine not just "life", but also pregnancy, conception, contraception and abortion itself, to avoid the inconvenience of acknowledging the far from "nuanced" biological facts. It is the 20th (and 21st) century riff on "the Peculiar Institution."
There are other similar rhetorical obfuscations - the recent attempt to nuancify "woman" ,"female" and "sex" being notable. But amusingly the nuancers, including you, can't seem to avoid treading on their own "nuances" 🙂
Joe : Nonetheless, the state could protect potential life before then. For instance, by providing health education to promote the health of the embryo. Or addressing environmental pollution that might negatively affect unborn life.
Doh !
I have noticed online that some people are so sure of themselves that disagreement is cited as merely bad faith.
Well, I took the time, and your response is noted.
As to the last part, yes, the terms are complex, with various nuances and possibilities. Words such as "life" and "liberty" tend to have such things. Though for others it is oh so obvious.
I also said "might."
The terms are only complex in the sense that people who are uncomfortable with the plain meaning invent an obfuscatory alternative meaning thus creating a “nuance.”
Occasionally, they even admit it.
You may be too young to be familiar with the abortion related redefinitions, but the sex/gender, man/woman redefinitions have all been done in the last twenty years, fully within your vision. There were no “women” with testicles before the 21st century. It’s a recent nuancical invention.
Dobbs absolutely did not extract the Supreme Court from abortion jurisprudence. There have been several cases since. That they chose to punt on EMTALA and mifepristone because of standing issues is whatever. The questions are there and they aren't going away just because Alito said they would. Kavanaugh's concurrence in Dobbs even laid the path for future cases by making explicit his views on a variety of state actions restricting abortion that would go too far for him.
I do understand the impulse by certain members of the Court to preserve decaying husks. But it does no one favors—not the lower courts, not litigants, and not the public. Just say what the law really is, and let the husks fall where they may.
They can't. That would mean handing Trump a loss which they don't want to do.
Justice Scalia, whom Sauer rightly called "one of the greatest jurists in the history of the Court."
I think this undersells him. He is a legal saint. St. Scalia is the proper terminology. Perhaps, in fact, spelling out his name is blasphemous.
Anyway, I think Oliver Wendell Holmes, Louis Brandeis, and George Sutherland are impressive, too, at the very least. McReynolds is not on their level. He had his moments. Myers was one.
If we are about to undertake a revival and vindication of Justice Scalia dissents in the separation of powers canon, I nominate for the next reversal Mistretta v US. The US Sentencing Commission is and has always been unconstitutional per Justice Scalia's dissent.