The Volokh Conspiracy
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Court Orders Reinstatement of Law Student Expelled for Writing "[W]hatever Harvard Professor Noel Ignatiev Meant by … '[A]bolish the White Race by Any Means Necessary' … Must Be Done with Jews"
An excerpt from today's long opinion by Chief Judge Allen Winsor (N.D. Fla.) in Damsky v. Summerlin, which I think is likely correct:
Damsky has been a controversial figure at the law school since he enrolled. He seems to enjoy pushing boundaries and provoking others. He achieved that and more with two seminar papers and one social media exchange that ultimately became the basis for his expulsion.
In the fall semester of his second year, Damsky wrote two seminar papers that generally argue the United States was founded as a race-based nation and should be preserved as such. He concluded each paper with what some perceived as extralegal calls to violence. In American Restoration, Damsky offered this view:
[W]e should feel no shame about feeling attached to those with whom we share a common racial origin. The founding generations of Americans were also no strangers to fighting, killing, and dying on behalf of their rights and sovereignty. The hour is late, but we are not yet so outnumbered and so neutered that we cannot seize back what is rightfully ours. This land, America, our due inheritance, is worth the struggle.
In National Constitutionalism, Damsky went perhaps further:
The Supreme Court and inferior federal courts have the power to arrest the dispossession of White America…. If the People are not granted relief from the government—which includes the judiciary—then, if they are to survive as masters in the land of their ancestors, they must exercise "their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow" the government. And that will be a process which no deskbound jurist can gleefully look forward to; for it will be a controversy decided not by the careful balance of Justitia's scales, but by the gruesome slashing of her sword.
Neither of Damsky's seminar professors found his language particularly alarming, and both gave him high marks. Still, the papers garnered attention. Many students found them upsetting, and some insisted the law school take action. The law school refused any discipline, though, concluding the writings did not constitute true threats, were not significantly disruptive, and enjoyed First Amendment protections….
[T]he semester continued without incident—at least until Damsky's March 21 X post:
My position on Jews is simple: whatever Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev meant by his call to "abolish the White race by any means necessary" is what I think must be done with Jews. Jews must be abolished by any means necessary.
This post was immediately available to Damsky's few X followers (Damsky said he has "almost no following"), as well as anyone else who happened across his public account. Law student S.J. saw the post and found it upsetting but not, by itself, alarming. A week later, S.J. reported the post to the Interim Dean. A few days after that, on April 1, one of the University's Jewish law professors engaged with Damsky on X. Replying to his post, she asked, "Are you saying you would murder me and my family? Is that your position?" Damsky offered this in reply:
Did Ignatiev want Whites murdered? If so, were his words as objectionable as mine? If Ignatiev sought genocide, then surely a genocide of all Whites would be an even greater outrage than a genocide of all Jews, given the far greater number of Whites.
The next day, the professor continued to engage:
I notice you didn't say no, but instead resorted to whataboutism. Yes, his words are despicable, but you implicitly admit yours are, too.
(The professor's post included a link to a Brittanica Encyclopedia article about "whataboutism.")
At the time, the professor considered the exchange provocative but not alarming or threatening. Other professors and many students, however, found Damsky's posts quite alarming and threatening. Some students were visibly upset, and many came to the Assistant Dean's office crying and describing their fears. Students feared physical harm, and expressed concern that Damsky might come to school armed. {The record suggests students' concerns of physical harm flowed from Damsky's rhetoric alone and not from any separate indication that he might be armed or violent.}
The professor who had engaged with Damsky on X, and who initially did not feel threatened, later grew afraid of what Damsky might do after she heard from students more familiar with him. She and her husband slept with a baseball bat by the bed. Springing into action, the law school increased campus security, began locking doors previously kept unlocked, and provided a police presence at a Jewish Law Students Association event. Then, on April 2—twelve days after Damsky's first post and one day after his follow-up exchange with the professor—the University suspended Damsky.
Damsky was eventually expelled:
In his letter, [University of Florida Dean of Students] Summerlin described Damsky's X posts as threatening and disruptive. And Summerlin described the seminar papers—the ones the Interim Dean earlier concluded were protected speech—as containing "violent rhetoric" that injected fear into the law school community. Summerlin also admonished Damsky for declining to "walk back" what he wrote….
But the court concluded that the expulsion likely violated the First Amendment. First, it concluded that Damsky's posts weren't "true threats" of violence (a category of speech that the Supreme Court has held is excluded from First Amendment protection):
Read in context, Damsky's statements "do not convey a real possibility that violence will follow." Even if ostensibly referring to violence, a hyperbolic and coarse expression of political opinion does not necessarily constitute a true threat. Thus, a draft opponent's public announcement that "[i]f they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J.," was protected speech. Watts v. United States (1969). His statement did not, in context, constitute a true threat. See also id. (noting that "[t]he language of the political arena … is often vituperative, abusive, and inexact").
Here, even taking the statement as the University does—"My position on Jews is simple: … Jews must be abolished by any means necessary"—Damsky offers no indication that he will act on his "position" or do anything at all. {The ellipses are the University's. As Damsky notes, and as discussed more fully below, what the ellipses skip over is important context.} He is stating a view—even if a hateful and offensive one. His statement is thus quite unlike those in the true-threat cases the University cites.
The threat in United States v. Ramos (M.D. Ga. 2024) was an individual message sent "to the home address of a Rabbi who had been speaking publicly against antisemitism following a neo-Nazi demonstration at her synagogue." The private letter—a "typical means for delivery of threats"—said, among other things, "Use code 'GASTHEJEWS' for 10% off!." The threat in United States v. Baker was unequivocal in target, location, and time: "[A]rmed racists mobs" at the state capitol on Inauguration Day would be met with "every caliber available," and those who were "afraid to die fighting the enemy" were advised to "stay in bed and live." Damsky's posts lacked those characteristic features of personal, targeted imminence.
Moreover, Damsky's post was not simply that "Jews must be abolished by any means necessary." His full statement was this:
My position on Jews is simple: whatever Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev meant by his call to "abolish the White race by any means necessary" is what I think must be done with Jews. Jews must be abolished by any means necessary.
Read in context, the post was equating Damsky's view that "Jews must be abolished" to the view of a Harvard professor. This context further undermines any suggestion that the post was a "serious expression" that Damsky would harm others.
The University says the reference to Ignatiev means little because most people are unfamiliar with Ignatiev and because Damsky did not explain that "Ignatiev was not calling for violence." Regardless, Damsky's post expressly conditioned "abolish" and "any means necessary" on "whatever Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev meant." That makes the University's reference to Black's Law Dictionary (quoting definition of "Abolish") inapposite. {Tellingly, the witnesses who considered Damsky's reference to Ignatiev (whether or not they agreed with Damsky's interpretation of the author) did not find the March 21 post clearly threatening. Cf. Watts (considering the audience's reaction as relevant context).}
Similarly, Damsky's other post—his April 1 response to the professor—was no serious expression of a real intent to harm. The post referenced Noel Ignatiev again and asked rhetorically what he wanted when he wrote about abolishing the white race. Notably, the professor to whom he directed his post did not interpret it as a threat to harm her or her family. In fact, she responded with a witty reference to "whataboutism" and a link to an encyclopedia article.
The University makes much of the fact that when asked if he was saying he would murder the professor and her family, Damsky did not say no. True, but neither did he say yes. He answered the question with a question. The overall context of Damsky's exchange with the professor reveals a perhaps course and crude debate on tolerable academic thought, but it does not express a serious intent to commit violence.
That his posts "came on the heels of his two seminar papers" does not undermine that conclusion either. Even if the papers provide pertinent context to the X posts, further context is the law school's recognition months earlier that those papers were protected under the First Amendment. And those papers—pure speech—are different than the kind of violent context that sometimes renders an expression a true threat. See, e.g., Planned Parenthood of Columbia/Willamette, Inc. v. Am. Coal. of Life Activists (9th Cir. 2002) (wanted-style posters "acquired currency as a death threat" after three murders); United States v. Hart (8th Cir. 2000) (use of Ryder truck to protest abortion clinic could be viewed as "true threat" because it was the same style truck used in the then-recent and widely reported Oklahoma City bombing).
To be sure, those reading Damsky's words may be justifiably fearful. Some may assume that anyone uttering such commentary is more likely to act violently than someone who does not. But that is not the test. The test is whether Damsky's posts constituted a "serious expression" that he meant "to commit an act of unlawful violence." Many would not love the idea of attending school with someone who burns crosses, cf. Virginia v. Black (2003), marches in Nazi parades, cf. Nat'l Socialist Party of Am. v. Vill. of Skokie (1977), or engages in countless other forms of offensive expression. But "the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable." Snyder v. Phelps (2010) (quoting Texas v. Johnson (1989)).
The court also rejected the argument that Dansky could be disciplined on the grounds that his speech was "materially disruptive." It noted that it was unclear whether the "more deferential First Amendment standard" from Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. School Dist. (1969) that allows restricting student speech to prevent disruption was applicable to university student speech (as opposed to the K-12 speech in Tinker). But, even if that standard was applicable, the court concluded that Dansky's speech wasn't reasonably perceived as threatening, and thus wasn't sufficiently "disruptive" on that score. It then reasoned:
Without a showing that Damsky's speech constituted a school-directed threat, the University is left without much of a Tinker argument. In fact, it has not articulated any other basis under Tinker to discipline Damsky for his speech. The entirety of its disruption argument is tied to the purported threat.
The University does not argue, for example, that the offensive nature of Damsky's speech or students' strong disagreement with it—even when manifested as an outpouring of students' concern, including crying or anxiety—constitutes the type of "disruption" that would justify restricting the speech. {The Second Circuit's reasoning in Leroy v. Livingston Manor Central School District (4th Cir. 2025) is persuasive here. There, a high school student's social media post generated community outcry and demonstrations. The court noted, however, Tinker's relevant question is "disorder or disturbance on the part of the" speaker. And tying a speaker's free speech rights "to the reaction that speech garners from upset or angry listeners" cannot be squared with Tinker or First Amendment principles. I agree. See also, e.g., Mahanoy Area Sch. Dist. (Alito, J., concurring) (noting speech on sensitive subjects like politics and social relations may "disrupt instruction and good order on school premises," but "it is a 'bedrock principle' that speech may not be suppressed simply because it expresses ideas that are 'offensive or disagreeable'").}
Nor does [the University] argue any interest in restricting Damsky's speech to "inculcate the habits and manners of civility." Cf. Scott v. Sch. Bd. of Alachua County (11th Cir. 2003) (quoting district court and upholding high school principal's policy prohibiting display of Confederate flag on school property). Instead, its Tinker argument turns exclusively on its insistence that Damsky's X posts were school-directed threats.
At bottom, schools "have a heavy burden to justify intervention" as "to political … speech that occurs outside school or a school program or activity." The University has not met that heavy burden here.
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If nothing else, this exposes university professors as intellectual lightweights and political radicals. But everyone kinda suspected that anyway.
To which professor(s) do you refer, Riva? The opinion recites:
"Neither of Damsky’s seminar professors found his language particularly alarming, . . . and both gave him high marks. . . . The law school refused any discipline, though, concluding the writings did not constitute true threats, were not significantly disruptive, and enjoyed First Amendment protections. . . . To the law school’s Interim Dean, the papers reflected a concerning escalation of Damsky’s rhetoric. But in her view, he had not yet crossed a line." (P. 4.)
"At the time [of the April 1 exchange with the Jewish professor,] the professor considered the exchange provocative but not alarming or threatening." (P. 6.) Only after hearing "from students more familiar with [Damsky]} did she become afraid. (P. 7.)
The opinion indicates that the lily livered folks were Damsky's fellow students and university administrators outside the law school -- not his law professors.
Will the Trump administration condemn Damsky as an example of anti-semitism at Hahvahd and use him as a reason to cut off funding, or offer him a job?
The headline is confusing, but Damsky was (is again?) at Florida, not Harvard.
ope, thanks for the correction. My bad!
That particular TDS rant didn’t age too well, now did it little troll?
I actually think the fact that he is at UF makes the Trump admin's silence more alarming. UF has more Jewish students that any other university.
And UF has been praised by the MAGA right as an example of a well-run institution.
"Will the Trump administration condemn Damsky as an example of anti-semitism at Hahvahd and use him as a reason to cut off funding, or offer him a job?"
Is there any reason to do so that wouldn't apply equally to Ignatiev's racism?
I don't know if he should be expelled, but he should certainly be put on probation for being a belligerent asshole.
I suppose the narrow ruling is that he can continue to attend this public school, and perhaps even graduate, but the professors are likewise free to write in any letters of reference that he's an asshole.
This is the first thing that will come up when you look this kid up. I doubt he's going to be looking for any references or applying to any clerkship or BigLaw jobs.
I hear that Judge Aileen Cannon (like most other federal judges) is looking for a law clerk or two.
(I do think the case was decided correctly. Pro tip: If someone directly asks you, "Are you thinking about murdering me and/or my family?", the polite response is an unequivocal, "No." or "Of course not!!!" A response where you tiptoe around giving a direct answer is, IMO, rather bad form.)
If you feel you need to ask that question on the first place would mean there are tons of red flags on the field already;)
The Heritage Institute may have an opening for him.
He can continue to attend school and graduate. How is that a "narrow ruling?"
Wow -- brings back memories of the great Noel Ignatiev Dunster House kosher toaster imbroglio of 1992:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1992/5/11/dunster-dismisses-vocal-tutor-pdunster-house/
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1992/3/9/students-support-kosher-toaster-pa-dunster/
Dunster House!
Not our finest moment.
Guy is either a true believer, or a troll pretending to be one to make people mad. It's not worth anyone's time trying to figure out which is which, because he's a prick either way.
I've no doubt he will find work somewhere; there's a big market today for horrible attention seekers. But law firms should stay far away.
Are you talking about the university professor he is reflecting or is advocating white genocide somehow an acceptable view?
Are you whattabouting to defend a Nazi?
No, I think he's demonstrating what bullshit cries of "whataboutism" are.
It's pretty pathetic when you argument complains that somebody has the nerve to ask for a single rather than double standard.
Deal with the OP first, if you want to bring up another subject. Don't deflect on behalf of conservative antisemites. It's bad.
And saying it's really about double standards is still deflection!
And the double standard bit is also wrong.
Silly or not, 'the white race' has a whole sociological definition that's not the same as 'everyone with white skin.' Because there is no white race, it's all culturally constructed etc.
So far as I know, 'The Jews' is Jewish people, full stop.
So it's a deflection, and also a faulty parallelism based on ignorance of academic parlance. Ignorance the bigot in the OP seems to share.
At this point, I do wonder that the GOP might not become antisemitic in a decade, given how little it's rank and file seem to care when their bedfellows are Nazis. Even as they yell about the left and Israel.
After a brief setback, Nick Fuentes has the juice.
No.
Simply, no.
You do not get to cut off things being put in unwanted context this way. You will never get to cut off things being put in unwanted context, no matter how much things being put in context annoys you.
You can complain about it until the cows come home, and the chickens roost, and you will still not get your way on this.
"At this point, I do wonder that the GOP might not become antisemitic in a decade, given how little it's rank and file seem to care when their bedfellows are Nazis. Even as they yell about the left and Israel."
Even if this happens, it will be in the (obviously unwanted) context of, and enabled by, the Democratic party's prior and swifter descent.
What I think has been going on here is that, with the horrors of the Holocaust receding into the past, we're actually returning to the status quo ante in terms of antisemitism. It's not that something is producing it, it's that something has stopped suppressing it.
It's not something to celebrate, I'm very unhappy about it.
Context sure looks like you don't care about Nazis, and would prefer to talk about some other dude who you're working hard to take out of context.
the Democratic party's prior and swifter descent.
Every. Fucking. Time.
Yeah, every fucking time, I'm going to point out what you don't want pointed out. No matter how much it annoys you.
You're delusional, is the thing. You have a version of Democrats that aren't real.
And you find them to blame for everything you don't like. Often based on secret leftists you can't prove but are sure exist.
It's not you spitting truth, it's you being a joke.
So you ARE arguing that white genocide is fine but treating people equally, even if equally atrociously is bad. If you had any reading comprehension or honesty you'd notice I didn't actually argue for or defend anything just asked if he was consistent or a hypocrite/racist against whites and you think that is over the top and deserves attacks and not answers.
I'm saying it's not white genocide.
That you're so far gone you think Harvard is into white genocide, I'm not going to be able to show you otherwise.
It's fun and all to insist the white race is the same as the Jews. But it doesn't take much thought to see why that's not actually a legitimate parallel.
“The hour is late, but we are not yet so outnumbered and so neutered that we cannot seize back what is rightfully ours.”
IANAL but none that is quoted sounds like legal reasoning. I do not know what the assignment was, but shouldn’t it require focus on constitutional case law?
Without grade inflation, the free speech issue may go away.
To be fair, not every sentence in a paper on constitutional law has to be by itself devoted to constitutional law. I'm pretty fond of my Parent-Child Speech and Child Custody Speech Restrictions article, for instance, and I think it's OK that it begins with "Percy Bysshe Shelley was a poet and a cad." (There's a connection, trust me.)
To be sure, there may be many things that Damsky's paper can be faulted for, but I wouldn't fault it for simply including some sentences that make normative assertions that aren't themselves focused on constitutional case law.
I read his paper on "National Constitutionalism" and found it fairly vapid. the core of his argument was that 14A itself is somehow un-Constitutional - not because of how it was passed, but because it enfranchises non-whites, thereby changing the character of the Nation (and its Constitution) so much that it's no longer valid as a social contract.
lots of hermeneutics and philosophy, but very little of substance. his professors likely gave him As to avoid being disparaged as "woke" - his legal talent was C+ at best.
The best defense of this guy would be that he's just taking the left's own words and throwing them in their face. Demonstrating that their own style of 'reasoning' can be used against them.
That being the case, it might actually defeat his purpose to include substance that wasn't present in the original material he's mocking.
To be clear, while I think he is doing the above, I don't think it's all he's doing, and I don't particularly like him. But understanding what somebody is doing doesn't really require liking them.
Seems more like you're making up excuses for his poor scholarship rather than understanding him.
There's no sign this is satire or some kind of ju-jitsu.
I'm not making excuses for the poor scholarship, you idiot. He didn't get in trouble for the poor scholarship. He got in trouble for what amounted to a pastiche of Noel Ignatiev's work. He got in trouble for doing exactly the same crappy thing that Noel Ignatiev was celebrated for.
I did observe that any pastiche of Noel Ignatiev's work has to be bad scholarship, or else a bad pastiche, because what it would be mocking was bad scholarship.
I think he SHOULD have gotten in trouble for being a bad scholar. I think he should have been told, "OK, very funny, and you admittedly have a point. Now buckle down and show that you, by contrast, are capable of good scholarship."
But that's not what happened.
He got in trouble for what amounted to a pastiche of Noel Ignatiev's work
That doesn't seem to be what the OP reflects, which goes well beyond that.
You're making this whole thing up.
You should consider why you're so set to make this about something other than the thing in the OP. It looks pretty bad.
"Neither of Damsky's seminar professors found his language particularly alarming, and both gave him high marks."
So, he was not in trouble over the quality of his work.
"At the time, the professor considered the exchange provocative but not alarming or threatening. Other professors and many students, however, found Damsky's posts quite alarming and threatening."
And he got suspended, not over the quality, but over his language being considered threatening.
His language which deliberately imitated or parodied Ignatiev.
"My position on Jews is simple: whatever Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev meant by his call to "abolish the White race by any means necessary" is what I think must be done with Jews. Jews must be abolished by any means necessary."
EXPLICITLY so.
And you have NO IDEA what his other scholarship was, except for this one example you've decided stands in for everything.
That's dumb.
But you want to believe.
Because you want to change the subject away from this Nazi guy.
Which sucks.
Nah, that's what seminar papers are like in law school. And a lot of legal "scholarship" in journals, too. If all you're doing is just writing about the case law, you're just writing a legal brief or a court opinion.
Would he have been ordered reinstated if he was calling for the extermination of Africans?
Well, the judge's view (which seems to me correct) is that he wasn't actually calling for the extermination of Jews, just as Ignatiev wasn't actually calling for the extermination of whites.
The question in both cases is how much of the "wasn't" is really true.
The surface in both cases is a call for genocide, underneath that is a claim that it's just metaphorical. Underneath THAT? Maybe we're back to genocide.
Hopefully in neither case would we have the opportunity to find out, because the metaphor is bad enough.
How do you abolish a race in a manner that is not extermination? 'by any means necessary'
Well, by defining the "race" in terms, not of genetics or outward appearance, or ancestry, but in terms of hated cultural norms like "showing up for work on time", "intact families", "using standard grammar and spelling".
Not being "white", but instead acting white.
And we all know that leftists are consistent in their arguments based on their definitions and totally not setting up a Motte and Bailey argument.
re: "To be sure, those reading Damsky's words may be justifiably fearful"
No, they may not. They may be fearful but that fear was not (and still is not) justifiable.
If you're Jewish and one of your fellow students publicly says "Jews must be abolished by any means necessary", you don't think even a little bit of fear is justified? Really?
You skip the part where a university professor was advocating white genocide and his statements were essentially fight back against that in equal measure.
It's justifiably fearful in precisely the same measure as Ignatiev's words, is the point.
Ignatiev concept of "whiteness" is apparently the same as the Smithsonian's.
I guess you could say that a rational person should be very afraid indeed, but not of being killed, just of society being radically altered for the worse by devaluing everything that actually makes modern societies FUNCTION.
Sorry, no, not even that. Ignatiev clearly understood what he meant with his words. Damsky doesn't express his own intent (not in that post, anyway), merely refers to "whatever ... Ignatiev meant ..." That is clearly a rhetorical device, not even remotely a real threat. There's also the factor that Ignatiev is a professor - a position of auhority - while Damsky is a mere student with no position-power to enforce his views.
So even if it was justifiable to be fearful of Ignatiev's comment, it is considerably less justifiable to be fearful of Damsky's conditional reply.
"University is left without much of a Tinker argument."
So that would make their argument not worth a Tinker's damn?
I'll see myself out.
Rim shot...
Dude's name is Damsky. Are we sure he's not Jewish? Is this a Man in the Glass Booth scenario?
Or another https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Burros situation. Burros was a Russian Jew who grew up in the Bronx, went to Hebrew school, had his bar mitzvah... and then joined the American Nazi Party and the KKK. he'd even bring knishes to meetings...
an investigative journalist from NYT outed him as Jewish, so he shot himself at the age of 28. his whole life revolved around hating himself and his own people. what a miserable person.
The question I have is something I had to help with for a former student -- at least in the state of Connecticut, a letter of recommendation from the law dean is a prerequisite to take the bar.
So if that is true in Florida, what happens hen the dean refuses to write one? It's a rather irrelevant victory to be reinstated but ineligible to take the bar exam..
And David NoMind -- you are blocked....
I don't recall the details of my bar admission--a very long time ago--but I would have thought that the letter from the dean merely confirmed that you had graduated. I don't think my dean at Berkeley even knew my name.
I looked it up. It's a form, not a free form letter of rec. In this gentleman's case perhaps the dean would be expected to answer yes to question 3 and explain, I dunno.
I dunno what a student could do if a dean, for some perverse reason, refused to sign. Or if the school refuses to send a transcript or whatever. I suppose you could sue, or explain to the Connecticut folks that the registrar's dog ate all the records, or something.
Abs,
Thank for including the link. Wow, Connecticut is tough state. I'm really surprised at some of the things the law school is supposed to disclose about you (assuming that the law school is in possession of such knowledge).
-You have been a party to any legal proceeding. (Examples: You fought a parking ticket. You got a divorce. You brought your roommate to Student Court, over a $15 phone bill that she refused to pay. You went to a mediator with a complaint against your high school, when it refused to allow you to bring birth control pills onto that public school campus.)
-You have been delinquent in any financial obligation. (Ex: 8 years ago, you paid your gas bill a month late. You paid your taxes late one year.)
I could see a school's dean reporting things that happened during your time at law school (and most of the questions on the list do seem to be limited to that period). But having to report stuff that happened well before law school??? The idea of turning law school administrators into mandated reporters...yuck. I'm glad UCLA never did anything like this when I did law school there. (Of course any law school could and should report to the relevant Bar Association(s) events that implicate one's ability to practice law-- like cheating on exams during law school, embezzling funds from the law school student group you were a member of, etc.)
That is not required in Florida. What an odd requirement. Doesn't seem very objective.
Exactly zero people will be surprised to learn that this is wrong.
(Also this is like the sixth time Dr. Ed has pretended to block me.)
They slept with a baseball bat next to the bed? LOL?
Mark,
I don't get it.
If I felt threatened at home (as someone with no firearms), I'd probably sleep with a kitchen knife or baseball bat near my bed. They are the closest things to a self-defense weapon that I own.
I'm not understanding your "LOL." I'm not understanding the question mark after the LOL.
Because this is very funny! Some anti-Semite made a threatening statement towards Jewish people and they felt threatened by it! Ha ha ha
Don't you get it?
Yeah, I don't get it either, my wife uses a golf club for that purpose.
Brett,
Mark and Cow have different senses of humor that we do, apparently. Heck, vive la difference! ????
(And I'm still not getting the question mark following the LOL. If it's supposed to be funny, then wouldn't a full stop or exclamation point make sense. Not seeing how turning laughing into a question makes any grammatical sense.)
It's a way of indicating incomprehension...
Brett,
Thanks. I don't really speak "Internet," so pretty much all of these (commonly-known?) shorthand devices fly over my head. TIL 🙂
Do NOT sleep with a kitchen knife near your bed!
Way too easy to slice your fingers off by accident when half asleep and reaching for something...
I notice you didn't say no, but instead resorted to whataboutism. Yes, his words are despicable, but you implicitly admit yours are, too.
It's called "precedent", you worthless piece of shit, not "whataboutism". One would think that competent law professors are clear on the concept.
But for the terminally stupid, I'll explain:
If you do not regularly attack Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev for his call to "abolish the White race by any means necessary", and do not also regularly attack anyone who supports, defends, or excuses his bullshit, then you have permanently forfeited ANY right to complain about someone else saying the same about people you do like. There's only one set of rules, and it applies to everyone. There's no special people, with special privilege, either positive or negative.
If your'e going to tolerate left wing hate, then you can STFU when right wing hate comes along.
And if you're going to tolerate left wing political violence, no one will, or should, care when you are crushed by right wing political violence
Greg J, I don't think "precedent" means what you seem to think it means.
Resorting to whataboutism is MAGA speak for crying "Uncle."
That's because you don't actually think about anything
"Whataboutism" is what you leftist scumbags say when we point out that you established a precedent by doing something and getting away with it, and are now upset that we're doing it back to you.
It's in short, always and everywhere, the cry of morally worthless scum who play will to power games, and then get upset when they're hit with the will to power prizes
Uh, "precedent" does not mean simply having occurred previously. It suggests having occurred previously and being worth considering as a guideline for current and/or future conduct.
Bleating "So's your old man!" is not a salutary rule of either jurisprudence or ethics.
Anything that you are allowed to do to us is precedent establishing that we can do it to you.
ANYTHING.
Professor is allowed to say that we should "abolish the White race by any means necessary"? Then anyone is allowed to replace "White" with anything else: Jews / blacks / Muslims / women / trans / gays / pick your most loved group here, say it, write it profess it to the crowds, and only those who attack the original professor for his evil remarks may issue ANY complain about what the other person says.
"Saying "whataboutism" is showing that you're a morally wretched and worthless piece of shit who has no principles, nothing more
Yeah, pretty much. Every time the left complains of "whataboutism", they are defending a double standard that excuses their own conduct at the very moment they attack somebody else's identical conduct.
They always misuse the argument too. Whataboutism isn't a comparison of two on-point situations but a deflection to another topic entirely or at best tangentially related with it's own separate circumstances. Here it is the literal same argument not another set of circumstances unless you're wedded to a set of false limitations that exist only to enable genocide or attacks against a certain group.
Matt Hale, an unabashed white supremacist and Nazi, graduated from law school and passed the bar exam, but was denied admission to the bar on character and fitness grounds. (Later a major felony got him sent to a supermax prison, mooting his ambition to practice law.) Was his case so much more egregious that it doesn't pertain to Damsky? Could Damsky go a bit further and find himself denied admission to the bar even if he graduates from law school and passes the bar exam?
Wasn't there another case like this at the U of Florida not too long ago revolving around a book prize for an execrable class paper? What gives at that school?
Maybe the school should post all papers at the discretion of the instructor online so that this crap might be chilled.
"Matt Hale, an unabashed white supremacist and Nazi, graduated from law school and passed the bar exam, but was denied admission to the bar on character and fitness grounds. (Later a major felony got him sent to a supermax prison, mooting his ambition to practice law.) Was his case so much more egregious that it doesn't pertain to Damsky? Could Damsky go a bit further and find himself denied admission to the bar even if he graduates from law school and passes the bar exam?"
Without knowing more facts, I am skeptical that the exclusion of Mr. Hale would pass First Amendment muster under Schware v. Board of Bar Examiners, 353 U.S. 232 (1957).
Chill taking the thoughts of law professors at their word?
No, there was not another case like this at the U of Florida not too long ago; it's the same guy. Damsky.
Simple resort to Wikipedia confirms what isn't all that surprising, which is that the antisemite Noel Ignatiev was born to Jewish parents.
"My position on Jews is simple: whatever Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev meant by his call to "abolish the White race by any means necessary" is what I think must be done with Jews. Jews must be abolished by any means necessary"
Ok, so what DID Ignatiev mean by this?
Essentially, he meant abolishing everything on that Smithsonian Infographic.
You could still be white, you just couldn't act like it.
So the destruction of civilization on one hand and a Motte and Bailey argument that allows them to applaud the assault and murder of whites from a safe distance on the other.
the destruction of civilization
DRAMA
Eliminate everything on that infographic, and, yeah, you'd destroy civilization.
Bingo! You've grasped it exactly.
You could still be white, you just couldn't act like it.
When you understand only enough so you can get mad, you end up with incoherent statements like this.
Because some of you prefer to orient on ignorant white resentment rather than dealing with the Nazi in your face, here's something useful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Ignatiev
Do I think he's right? I do not. But white genocide/end of civilization/'he hates hard work' are all made up.
Notably, none of the above statement translates coherently to being about Jews.
So the Nazi is still a Nazi. And you should stop trying to talk about other stuff. Makes it look like you condone the Nazi.
It translates as coherently into being about Jews as it does into being about whites.
Just as wrong, too.
You didn't read the quote if you think it works for Jews. Especially in America.
And you may not agree with it, but it meets the bar of coherence with respect to whites.
It's pretty foolish to say otherwise.
It's factually wrong about whites and Jews, but perfectly capable of being coherently applied to both with just minor alteration. Literally, if you substitute "Jew" for white, you'd get a coherent but wrong claim, with only slight necessity for tweaking it.
'We do not hate you or anyone else for the shape of her nose. What we hate is a system that confers privileges (and burdens) on people because of shape of their nose. It is hooked noses that makes people Jewish; it is hooked noses in a certain kind of society, one that attaches social importance to nose shape. When we say we want to abolish the Jewish race, we do not mean we want to exterminate people with hooked noses. We mean that we want to do away with the social meaning of nose shape, thereby abolishing the Jewish race as a social category. Consider this parallel: To be against royalty does not mean wanting to kill the king. It means wanting to do away with crowns, thrones, titles, and the privileges attached to them. In our view, Jewishness has a lot in common with royalty: they are both social formations that carry unearned advantages.'
I think you're having trouble separating coherence of the idea from it's total lack of factual basis.
You don't believe in structural racism. That doesn't mean you get to pretend anyone making the argument is talking bababa crazy speak.
Your nose shape thing is still pretty weird, eh? It posits some kind of alternate version of America no one adheres to.
Which is why the guy in the OP is not the same as the Harvard guy.
The nose thing actually used to be a common antisemitic trope at one time, you know, weird as it was.
Like I said, you're confusing coherence with having a factual basis.
Anyway, Ignatiev wasn't writing about structural racism. Not really. He was writing about Marxist class struggle, and calling capitalism "whiteness". Basically as a way of diverting anti-racist efforts into advancing Marxism, instead.
And the guy in the OP wasn't saying anything about Marxism.
What you're doing is saying you don't like thing A, and you also don't like thing B. Therefore things A and B are the same.
It's dumb as hell, but about your level of engagement with reality.
"But white genocide/end of civilization/'he hates hard work' are all made up."
You really think so?
"Just as the capitalist system is not a capitalist plot, so racial oppression is not the work of “racists.” It is maintained by the principal institutions of society, including the schools (which define “excellence”), the labor market (which defines “employment”), the legal system (which defines “crime”), the welfare system (which defines “poverty”), the medical industry (which defines “health”), and the family (which defines “kinship”). "
"The abolitionists oppose all forms of segregation in the schools, including tracking by “merit,” they oppose all mechanisms that favor whites in the job market, including labor unions when necessary, and they oppose the police and courts, which define black people as a criminal class. They not merely oppose these things, but seek to disrupt their functioning. They reject in advance no means of attaining their goal; even when combating “racist” groups, they act in ways that are offensive to official institutions. The willingness to go beyond socially acceptable “anti-racism” is the dividing line between “good whites” and traitors to the white race."
He's wasn't at war with racism. He was at war with Western civilization.
I see nothing in your excerpts that are some essential bit of our society.
Western Civilization is, itself, hard to nail down. The commonality between Greece and France and Spain and America is not enough to hang much on.
I avoid the term.
Brett, putting material within quotation marks ordinarily calls for acknowledgement of what source is being quoted.
Failure to do so is bad form.
Ugh. Academics are worse than lawyers when it comes to mangling and twisting words beyond recognition.
He could have said "we oppose racialist thinking in all its forms".
Instead, we get this: "When I say I want to get rid of people, I don't mean people."
It takes a lot of education to be that simple-minded (and get away with it).
I shan't disagree with you there. I was friends with someone in a communications grad program.
I thought his final paper was satire, the jargon was so thick.
1: "My position on Jews is simple: whatever Harvard professor Noel Ignatiev meant by his call"
So, if what you're saying is "it didn't mean much", then you're agreeing that what the student said "didn't mean much."
2: In America "whiteness" means you get discriminated against and people act as if that's right. So Noel Ignatiev is is a lying sack of shit