Open Thread

What’s on your mind?

Comments

[Kazinski]

Interesting observations now that Elon has started posting location of Twitter accounts:

"Seeing the sheer number of people on the 'American online right' exposed to be foreigners is frankly relieving. Given many of these accounts have been actively stoking the flames of the little civil war we are having on the right at the moment, their locations being posted is huge.

Go into any hot topic political conversation on twitter right now. Go into the comments. Find the most inflammatory comments pushing the hardest and the strongest on the most radical position.

You'll find them filled with people from Europe. India. The Philippines. The Middle East. Australia. Nigeria. Malaysia.

I'm batting about 75% in being able to guess who is American and who is not."

I spend some time on X, bit generally only follow people I know, and I don't spend much time on the "For You" curated feed, so I haven't seen much of this.

https://x.com/MichaelFKane/status/1992408403981824095

I don't have any problem with people commenting on US politics, bit its nice to know where they are actually from.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Ummmmm -- just because someone has an overseas IP address doesn't mean the person is.

"[Eastern] Europe. India. The Philippines. The Middle East. Australia. Nigeria. Malaysia." -- countries not known for overly aggressive regulation of the internet...

Well I don't know about Australia, but the others....

[Riva]

And who is paying them? What “nonprofit” or NGO do we thank for their contributions? Well probably all from American taxpayers anyway, or Soros.

And I wonder how many trolls here match the same profile as the trash commenting in the new Twitter cesspool?

[Malika la Maize]

Yes, X, that hotbed of leftism! Lol

[Riva]

It's a cesspool wherever leftists congregate. They corrupt everything. And paid or voluntary, most leftists activists don't do it for free. I wonder if democrat operatives get discounts from the rent-a-mobs given their long term relationship?

[Malika la Maize]

X tilts very right now bot, update your programming!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/10/29/elon-musk-x-republican-democrat-twitter-election/

[Riva]

Just curious, is anyone paying you for the voluminous bullshit you're throwing around here today, imbecilic second string parrot troll? The bullshit is quite prolific today.

[Riva]

And you might want to address your reading comprehension in your next remedial class imbecilic second string parrot troll. I never wrote that X was "tilting" one way or the other, simply that leftist shits corrupt every space they occupy. Like you here. Although maybe the money is good? I imagine you don't merit much pay for anything productive.

[jb]

Why do I have the feeling that if Reason posted locations, Riva's would probably not be in the US?

[Dr. Ed 2]

AGAIN, just because someone is coming from an IP address registered in a specific country, *any* specific country, neither means that the traffic originated there nor that the person physically is in that particular country.

That was true thirty years ago -- and definitely true now!

[jb]

Lucky for all of us, IP geolocation doesn't just rely on where addresses are registered.

[Voize of Reazon]

The latest wrinkle in this saga: The X location feature also revealed that the DHS account was based in Tel Aviv.

[DDHarriman]

The US Government has been MIGA before MAGA for over a generation now.

[DDHarriman]

I love how 'American online right' when scores of Democrat influencers and organizations are also getting exposed. It's hilarious.

Pajeet grifters are a pox on all of humanity, not just the Right.

Also, even cherished organizations like the Democrat Socialists of America are based out of Portugal. Which is pretty weird and questionably legal.

[Krayt]

I remember when twitter cancel storms started. Some idiot of the week shot his mouth off and a huge twitter storm started. Someone looked into it and found it was kicked off by the same seven or eight accounts.

People are whining about the news channels and their evening talking head shows, but that's so 10 years ago. Who needs rabble rousers in crowds, and confederates saying, "He's right, you know."? They can lead entire conversations on both sides, back and forth, over a preprogrammed hour or two.

[AmosArch]

Most people are looking at Ukraine in a very localized context. Is it worth it, spending a ton of money to throw the dice for a victorious Ukraine as a bulwark against Russia vs not spending money and possibly have an emboldened Russia at Europe's doorstep?

The Trump Admin on the other hand is looking at things on a more globalized context. Trump's gambit, which I don't see taken into account by most commentators is try to woo Russia away from China's orbit. For them the question is not just Ukraine vs Russia but how would China and the overall balance of power be shifted depending on how we react?

Sure it might feel good to spank Russia completely but it could come at the cost of driving them further into China's arms in addition to all the resources we'd expend to do it. With this calculation in mind I think the Dem/EU argument to stay the course and spend untold billions more in the gamble that Russia somehow is completely defeated, which nobody is sure what it will look like, becomes much more questionable.

Possible objections:

1. Russia is an existential thread to the US
I don't think Russia is a conventional existential threat even if they somehow conquered the whole of Ukraine, aside from their nukes of course which would be a bigger threat if we took the Dem/EU path of attempting total Russian annihilation. Frankly I'm not even sure they're a conventional threat to the EU at least if the EU ever decides to get its act together they should easily spank Russia in a conventional war.

2. Russia and China are natural allies
Russia and China are actually more naturally rivals of each other with plenty of behind the scenes tension. Russia would benefit far more with a weakening China than one gaining strength and vice versa. And this is what the Admin is trying to exploit.

3. Putin and his gang are on the way out. We just need to kick in the door to make a western aligned Russia pop out from his downfall.
Could be an interesting premise but unfortunately there is not much evidence that this would happen. Even if you ignore internal polling, anecdotal reports and indirect measurements like approval for Trump appear to indicate Putin's regime maintains a base of support. Anything could happen and Putin can be overthrown tomorrow but there isn't enough evidence to go the other way of attempting total Russian humiliation in the hopes that the new regime with thank us for it.

4. A Russian total defeat would be the best option from a global balance of power perspective.
Not so sure about that. Maybe if this led to the collapse of Putin and a emergence of a strongly proWestern competent Russia but as I have pointed out above this is far from certain. Its very possible even a defeated Russia will remain hostile. So even if we fulfill Reddits wildest dreams and completely spank Russia with no face saving whatsoever what do we get out of it? Possibly just an emptier wallet and a pissed off Russia who is more of a threat as an even closer geopolitical vassal of China.

Now I am not saying we should let Russia win from all of this. In a way they've already lost big time and its deserved. Just maybe tone things down and bit and let them slink off saving a bit of face like for example through a timely peace process might be a bit more profitable than the HOORAA total undisputed 10 billion to zero humiliation blowout some people claim to want.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Which is why I ask the question below.

[AmosArch]

btw this is presuming the Ukraine situation is a quagmire with no end in sight as it appears. If the Ukrainians are able to completely defeat the Russians without the US blowing out its bank account. They should be allowed to without interference.

[Commenter_XY]

UKR is not, and never was, a vital US national interest.

UKR suffers from endemic corruption (only Russians are more corrupt, and that is saying a lot). UKR is neither a member of the EU nor NATO. We have no agreements with UKR (as in, a treaty obligation). Ukrainians have imbibed antisemitism from the cradle, like mother's milk (Shamir was right about this, vis a vis Poland, and UKR is no different). There is no shared history btwn UKR and America.

If UKR disappeared tomorrow, would America be affected? No, not really. When RUS takes over the east region, they will inherit even more corrupt bureaucratic functionaries; they can have them.

UKR is a European problem. People like Eurotrash can address it. Then again, people like Eurotrash will lie supine before the RUS bear instead of addressing it.

[Malika la Maize]

Is Israel a vital US national interest?

[Commenter_XY]

No.

[Malika la Maize]

So should we quit, say, the diplomatic support (sometimes the US is the one of a handful of nations supporting Israel)?

[Commenter_XY]

No.

[Malika la Maize]

Why, if they’re not a vital national interest? Why be on the wrong side of most of the world for a country that isn’t in our national vital interest?

[Poxigah146]

So if something isn't a national vital interest, we should go along with the opinion of the rest of the world, no matter how stupid?

[Malika la Maize]

If vital national interests is the criteria why would we waste diplomatic capital and create ill will with many of the nations in our vital national interest to symbolically stand with a nation that is not?

[Poxigah146]

Who cares if we create ill will with other nations? In the past 50 years, that just means "not letting them run roughshod over us."

I know liberals like yourself probably think forfeiting our sovereignty to snotty Europeans and tin pot dictators in the Middle East and Africa to be a positive thing, but I don't.

[Drewski]

You think foreign policy should be restricted to vital interests? That was Maoist isolationism, and it. . . didn't work out incredibly well.

[Malika la Maize]

I don’t but XY seems to think so, albeit selectively.

[Jmaie]

Not to speak for him, but I see a difference between providing diplomatic support to Israel and providing weaponry for Ukraine.

I personally think we should stop providing any military support to Israel.

[Sarcastr0]

Not to speak for Malika, but pulling back from the world except for everything in the vital national interest is not a good requirement for a foreign policy.

It's pretty subjective, it doesn't describe our current posture, and not keeping a hand in means you're gonna get blindsided one way or another.

[Frank Drackman]

It's the only Middle Eastern Country your "kind" would be safe in.

[Malika la Maize]

People who can write basic English?

But I imagine they take your kind too.

[Frank Drackman]

You're so proud that you can write your native language better than I can my second one, maybe skip going to Israel, while your Skin Color wouldn't matter your Ass-hole-olic-ness would, Oh, and they right from Right to Left (Proof that J-hovah's a Southpaw) with writing that looks like small Rorschach blots, and Hebrew??? it's like they have a different word for everything!!!!!
Like for you, it's "מְטוּמטָם"

Frank

[Malika la Maize]

Your second one? I thought your character’s story was your mother was German but you were raised and educated here. Most immigrants’ kids raised here learn English.

[Bwaaah]

It does look like he spelled your name correctly, though.

[Malika la Maize]

lol, more white knighting from our recently disaffected liberal character actor. I guess performance artists stick together!

[Frank Drackman]

I did, probably speak it better than you.

[Malika la Maize]

You just can’t write it?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Yes, Israel is a vital US interest -- it's an unsinkable aircraft carrier in a place where we may need one. We have a lot of "stuff" stored there.

[Malika la Maize]

We have bases all over that area.

https://www.americansecurityproject.org/national-security-strategy/u-s-bases-in-the-middle-east/

[Bob from Ohio]

In Islamic nations where the government and much of the elite are favorable but the populace hates us.

[Frank Drackman]

You're like the Bizarro Congressman Hank Johnson, you remember, the one who was worried Guam might capsize. Yes, Israel is "unsinkable" so is Australia.
I'll defer to your comment on "stuff", that's certainly your area of expertise.
Now I'm going to ask a question I already know the answer to.
Ever been to Israel?? (New York doesn't count)

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

I'm old enough to remember the Cold War when Israel was a damn valuable and quite strategic ally and that alone means we owe them, big time, because the Cold War was real.

We may have bases all over the region, but we had bases in Iran and how'd that wind up? We had bases in Afgainstan and what happened there? Israel is one of the few places where our servicemen are SAFE on leave.

You know the stuff we gave Israel for Gaza -- it was already there....

No, I've never been to Israel. Are you offering to pay for me to go?
(I've often said that the Birthright money would be better spent sending PROTESTANT teenagers to Israel as American Protestant (Christians) support Israel more than American Jews do. (Remember that it's our Holy Land, too...)

[Frank Drackman]

Most of our Strategic Allies don't sink our Navy's ships.
OK, there's England, Japan, and Germany, I said "Most".
And for you Dim-Bulbs out there (Queenie, Hobie-Stank) it was the USS Liberty, June 1967, during the "6 Day War"
Israel did admit Guilt, saying "My Bad" "Mistaken Identity", "Fog of War" and
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$30.1 million in 2024) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($30.6 million in 2024) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($22.9 million in 2024) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest.

Frank

[David Nieporent]

We may have bases all over the region, but we had bases in Iran and how'd that wind up?

We did not have bases in Iran.

[Riva]

Is helping an ally avoid the nightmarish scenario presented by “from the river to the sea” at least of some interest?

[Malika la Maize]

Poor bot can’t register the same could be said of Ukraine.

[Riva]

Not really you fucking imbecilic second string parrot troll. Actually not at all. And maybe we should add antisemitic to the above list?

[Malika la Maize]

Ukraine is an ally facing a bloodthirsty enemy too, bot.

[Dr. Ed 2]

They're not having "Death to America" rallies in Moscow...

[Riva]

The geopolitical, national security and historic/cultural differences between the two matters is beyond the capability of the fucking imbecilic antisemitic second string parrot troll to understand. And he’s not being paid to try to understand, if he had the capacity. He’s just here to troll.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Alexis Tocqueville in Democracy in America predicted:

"There are now two great nations in the world, which starting from different points, seem to be advancing toward the same goal: the Russians and the Anglo-Americans. ... Each seems called by some secret design of Providence one day to hold in its hands the destinies of half the world."

The "vital national interest" in my mind includes controlling the dangerous ends of Russia. Supporting the liberty of Ukraine is in our overall interests, too, but partially because of the dangers of Russia.

As to Israel, the Middle East is a vital national interest overall, and Israel plays an important part. Our unbalanced (imho) stance regarding Israel harms our overall national interests.

[Dr. Ed 2]

China is more of a "Great Nation" than Russia, and I really am surprised that China hasn't had a revolution yet. They have been on the verge of one for about a decade, if not longer.

[Frank Drackman]

Be careful what you wish for. Iran and Roosh-A had "Revolutions" also.

[Dr. Ed 2]

White Russians are more than a drink.

Russia had TWO revolutions....

[not guilty]

". . . I really am surprised that China hasn't had a revolution yet."

WTF??

[Dr. Ed 2]

China is so corrupt -- so corrupt -- that prevents things from getting done and interferes with the quality of life. It's not that the government is unfair or undemocratic but that it is INEFFICIENT to the point where getting rid of it for that purpose seems attractive.

It's been speculated that a lot of the Covid lockdowns were actually riot control.

Peoples economic aspirations were raised in the 90s but they haven't seen any of the economic benefits themselves yet. And then they have a real estate mess you won't believe.

And they have so much off-the -books debt that I don't think they know how much they have.

I state as a fact -- and neither good nor bad but a fact -- that I really am surprised that they haven't had a revolution yet.

[David Nieporent]

Ukrainians have imbibed antisemitism from the cradle,

They have a Jewish president.

[bernard11]

Ukrainians have imbibed antisemitism from the cradle,

I don't know about Ukraine, but Poland certainly has. Yet we regard them, probably rightfully, as a staunch ally.

XY has often expressed hostility towards Ukraine because of their antisemitic behavior during WWII. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Germany, though, whose behavior was, shall we say, somewhat worse.

[Armchair]

The objection I've seen to this from the left is that "Putin cannot be trusted. No peace with Russia where they have any armed forces left to attack is valid. There can be no peace with Russia so long as they have an army left".

[Malika la Maize]

Cite?

[Riva]

He's paraphrasing common themes among leftist clowns you fucking imbecilic second string parrot troll.

[Malika la Maize]

If so common cite some, bot.

[Riva]

Look up paraphrase in a dictionary fucking imbecilic antisemitic second string parrot troll. Surely you can afford one with all the bonuses you must be stacking up with all the shit you’re throwing about here today. Although maybe better to save your money. With the low caliber of your bullshit today, you might have trolled your way out of new work.

[Armchair]

Armchair 2 days ago
Another foolish post from a foolish person who basically says "No peace is possible, because Russia could just attack again!"

bernard11 2 days ago

No negotiated peace is possible, because Putin will not honor any agreement that doesn't give him what he wants, or makes it possible to seize it later."

[Josh R]

I have seen no one call for the dissolution of the Red Army.

[Armchair]

"David Nieporent 2 days ago
Correct. No peace is possible as long as Russia is able to attack again"

Technically they don't need an Army to attack...

[Josh R]

Perhaps not "able to attack again" means Ukraine joins NATO. That is, attack is all but out of the question.

[Sarcastr0]

Armchair, you pulled this strawman shit in the last thread as well.

As I said then:

Armchair's strawmen in this thread, so far:

"it's war eternal"

"you just insist on permanent war"

"That's the sign of a warmonger"

"Russia must be utterly destroyed, man woman and child for there to be peace."

You know, I don't think he's listening very well...

[Josh R]

Trump's gambit, which I don't see taken into account by most commentators is try to woo Russia away from China's orbit.

Trump doesn't play 1D chess, let alone 4D chess. He wants a Nobel Peace prize.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

How about the Fifa Peace Prize?

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/who-wont-win-fifas-peace-prize

[Josh R]

Didn't Trump end 9 football riots?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Well El Salvador and Honduras once went to war over a championship game. I am not making this up...

[MoreCurious]

Didn't Spain and Great Britain once go to war over an ear belonging some guy named Jenkins?

[David Nieporent]

Trump doesn't play 1D chess, let alone 4D chess. He wants a Nobel Peace prize.

That, plus I have no idea what "woo Russia away from China's orbit" even means. What would Russia be doing differently vis-à-vis China in Trump's world than in the world where we actually stand up for American interests and oppose Putin?

[Michael Ejercito]

Russia has no way of winning the IED-dodging phase of the war.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Just maybe tone things down and bit and let them slink off saving a bit of face like for example through a timely peace process "

Ukraine "supporters" want to fight to the last Ukrainian.

My plan would be to have the less insane parts of the EU and others draft a plan that recognizes that Ukraine will never get back all its land, and is moderately favorable to Ukraine but accepts some Russian demands.

Then get the Italian PM to go to Trump with it and flatter the heck out of him. He likes her. Make it his plan.

[Josh R]

What part of your plan insures that Russia does not invade again?

[Bob from Ohio]

Nothing of course, it just ends the current war. Your comment is silly, no treaty can insure further behavior.

[David Nieporent]

You're being disingenuous. Nobody is claiming that the abstract notion of a treaty can ensures that Russia doesn't invade again; it's the changes made on the ground pursuant to the treaty that can ensure that.

As brought up in the other thread, it wasn't the armistice that kept North Korea from invading South Korea over the last 70 years. It was the American commitment to defend South Korea, made concrete by the presence of a substantial number of American troops — as well as defense cooperation, arming them, etc. — that did so.

[Bob from Ohio]

"presence of a substantial number of American troops "

Think that is happening here?

[David Nieporent]

If Russia truly had no intention of attacking again, why should anyone object to that?

But since they do have such intention, no, I don't think that's happening.

[wvattorney13]

Does anyone propose putting American troops in Ukraine even if Russia does not object?

[Dr. Ed 2]

No David, it was STALIN'S DEATH that stopped the Soviets from invading again.

[Absaroka]

????

The Soviets didn't invade South Korea.

The Soviets supplied material, but generally didn't participate in combat directly other than pilots. IIRC Soviet KIA in Korea were a few hundred. The Chinese and NK casualties were in the hundreds of thousands.

[Josh R]

This treaty, unlike the Budapest Memorandum, Minsk I and Minsk II, must make it very unlikely that Putin invades again. What's your execution plan for that?

[Bob from Ohio]

I suggested a plan be drafted and presented, I really did not make any suggestions other than recognizing that Russia need to get some land in order to agree and the agreement must have some things for both sides.

[Josh R]

Perhaps you should consider that Russia needs to get some land and Ukraine needs to get concrete security guarantees (rather than just "some things for both sides").

[David Nieporent]

Ukraine "supporters" want to fight to the last Ukrainian.

Ukraine supporters want to fight as long as Ukraine wants to fight. You couldn't give a shit what happens to Ukrainians, so don't pretend that you're motivated by concern for their well-being.

[Bob from Ohio]

You "supporters" need to encourage Ukraine to settle then, but you have a fantasy that Russia can be defeated and Ukraine get every inch back. So you encourage to keep endlessly fighting.

[David Nieporent]

Once again: it only takes one side to fight. Russia isn't looking for a negotiated settlement. There is nothing Ukraine can do to "settle" at this time other than surrender.

[Krayt]

Fortunately, your attitude did not rule the day in WWII.

[hobie]

I still don't see what Ukraine got for signing over it's minerals to the Trump Family. Complete capitulation to Russia doesn't seem like a good bargain.

[Dr. Ed 2]

There is another side of Ukraine that no one is mentioning -- Yugoslavia & Chechnya.

What is Europe going to do if this becomes a racial guerrilla war? Between what Putin has done here (e.g. the kidnapped children, the war crimes) and what Stalin did in the 1930s, there is enough animosity to generate terrorism, which a corrupt government (Putin) is particularly vulnerable to.

For example, how effective would the TSA be if they were routinely being bribed to let people carry prohibited items onto planes, etc.?

Is Trump failing to listen to the one wise thing that Woodrow Wilson said -- that an unjust peace treaty will lead to another war in a generation...

[Dr. Ed 2]

And how bad is China's economic mess?

If Evergrande is only the tip of the iceberg, which I was led to believe it was, then what's become of everything else?

[Commenter_XY]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/418110

Nothing to see here...

Park East Synagogue Cantor Benny Rogosnitzky told the Post that demonstrators shouted explicit calls for violence against Jews, including "Kill the Jews," as well as "Destroy Israel" and "No Jews in America."

[Dr. Ed 2]

I ask again: Exactly what part of "Kill the Jews" do American Jews not understand?!?

[Frank Drackman]

אני שואל שוב: איזה חלק בדיוק ב"להרוג את היהודים" יהודי אמריקה לא מבינים?!?
גָלוּי לֵב

[Dr. Ed 2]

Some variant of English, please.

[Frank Drackman]

You first

[Poxigah146]

This one is particularly stupid. At an event about how to make aliyah, that is, to leave the diaspora and return to Israel, they're protesting that Jews don't belong in America.

The event should have been exactly what these fools want.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's not stupid; These particular people don't want Jews out of America. They want them out of life, period, regardless of where they might live.

[Riva]

Maybe they’re just auditioning for a job in whatever new NY commission Mamdani plans to use to globalize the intifada?

[David Nieporent]

Remember when Mamdani said "globalize the intifada"? Neither does anyone else.

[Riva]

I never claimed he did asshole. While not specifically chanting the vile slogan, he has, however, equated it with “a desperate desire for equality and equal rights in standing up for Palestinian human rights.” The phrase actually has been employed by terrorists for years as a rallying cry for the destruction of Israel. Like most pseudo communist clowns, not to mention an islamist in his case, Mamdani is not exactly a model of honesty.

[Michael Ejercito]

It may have crossed the Brandenburg line.

[not guilty]

"It may have crossed the Brandenburg line."

Keep in mind that Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), involved a challenge (both facially and as applied) of an Ohio statute. Is there a New York statute that arguably prohibits marchers from chanting “Resistance you make us proud, take another settler out" and/or shouting "Kill the Jews," as well as "Destroy Israel" and "No Jews in America"?

These things are somewhat more provocative than what Clarence Brandenburg was arrested for saying to a crowd, but SCOTUS there approvingly quoted Noto v. United States, 367 U.S. 290, 297-298 (1961):

"the mere abstract teaching . . . of the moral propriety or even moral necessity for a resort to force and violence is not the same as preparing a group for violent action and steeling it to such action."

395 U.S. at 448. I'm not sure whether the New York marchers' speech reaches the "imminent lawless action" test of Brandenburg.

[BrotherMovesOn]

O Dr. Ed!

[Kazinski]

An article DN posted Friday on the Chinese Soybean purchases got me to look at the Soybean Commodity futures graph.

I had been hearing a lot this year about how farmers were being hit by lower prices due to Trump's tariffs, and I took it at face value. But it turns out to be all bullshit. Sure Soybean prices are low, but the market collapse was May-June 2024.

Here are the peaks and valleys of Soybean prices Soybean Prices starting with the post pandemic peak:
Feb 2023 - 1542.00
Then a steady decline until:
Feb 2024 1141.75
And then a modest rebound peaked
May 28, 2024 1248.00
Then the roof fell in and it hit a low down ~20% from the May high.
Dec 18, 2024. 953

Soybeans have traded in a fairly narrow range since July of 2024, never going above 1060, until Trump announced the China deal, and now they are at 1126, up about 10% from the average range over the past year.

And yet there are literally dozens of headlines blaming Trump tariffs for the Soybean slump that started more than 6 months before he took office.

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=2e41414a5e61d415&q=trump+tariffs+soybean+farmers&tbm=nws

Soybean data here:

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/ZSW00:CBOT

[Commenter_XY]

Don't confuse the uber-libs with actual numbers and facts, Kaz. They will be triggered.

[John 4]

Don’t worry. No one thinks he knows what he’s reading.

[ThePublius]

? Why the snide comment?

[Commenter_XY]

Evidently, Johns 1-3 didn't make the grade. Now on the 4th iteration. 😉

[Mr. Bumble]

Piker compared to Loki13.

[Drewski]

Look who's the tone police again. I give it a week before you're hurling vulgar insults again.

[Malika la Maize]

Look downthread!

[Mr. Bumble]

Uber "Libertarian" with metastatic TDS David Notsoimportant's
post:

David Nieporent 2 days ago
Flag Comment
Mute User

I'm shocked, shocked to find out how incompetent Donald Trump is yet again: US soybean shipments to China sit idle despite Beijing's pledge to buy big

Though I'm not sure this reflects incompetence so much as laziness and malice. Trump couldn’t give a fuck about Americans, let alone American farmers; all he wanted was a headline saying he had done something. He got that, so his work was done.

[Kazinski]

I'm not really blaming Dave, I fell for the line that low soybean prices were hurting farmers (true), and that it was Trump's fault (false), too.

The only reason I had taken a closer look is because so saw that the future had made a big move two weeks ago, so the headline didn't make sense, and I took a closer look.

But who knows maybe this will get him to not swallow every anti Trump headline hook line and sinker, but I doubt it.

[Commenter_XY]

Sadly, David went off the deep end after POTUS Trump won the 2024 election. David never expected that, despite being told that the race dynamics had changed in late September, and that PA had swung to POTUS Trump in early October.

It is tough being on the losing side, watching it all slip away.

[Malika la Maize]

We get the Sherrill election was tough for you.

[Commenter_XY]

Nah, Mikie the Money Hungry Honey will do herself in. We already know she is a dishonorable POS, just ask some of her classmates.

[Malika la Maize]

The businessman and former assemblyman has paid nearly $4 million in federal income tax, state income tax, and local property tax since 2012, according to his campaign. He’s made almost $14.9 million in income in that span, according to the New Jersey Monitor.
https://newjerseyglobe.com/taxes/ciattarelli-releases-tax-returns/amp/

[Mr. Bumble]

The information concerning his income comes because he released 13 years of tax returns.
Did Sherill do the same?

[Malika la Maize]

Don’t know how to click the link?

[Mr. Bumble]

Neither the original story you linked to or the internal links indicate how many years returns Sherill released.

[Malika la Maize]

It’s the number of years yore worried about?

[Mr. Bumble]

You're like a GPS. Always recalculating.

[bernard11]

Suddenly politicians releasing their tax returns is really important to you.

[Poxigah146]

Nobody on the right cares about New Jersey. Like New York and California, it's a lost cause.

[Malika la Maize]

XY does, he claims to live there and was giddy posting about Sherrill’s defeat when the polls weren’t great for her.

[not guilty]

"Sadly, David went off the deep end after POTUS Trump won the 2024 election."

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Projecting much, XY?

[Glaucomatose]

I know nothing at all about soybeans, but a quick look at the USDA shows that total US soybean exports were off about 40% year-over-year as of October. In particular, China went from about 6.9 million tons to zero, roughly accounting for the current 6.7-million-ton deficit.

https://apps.fas.usda.gov/export-sales/soybeans.htm

If your price stays low but your volume drop by almost half, that’s going to leave a mark.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If your TOTAL volume drops by half, your price will drop.

I somehow suspect Ukrainian wheat exports to Africa are down.

[Kazinski]

I am not sure what your link is telling us other than China wasn't buying Soybeans in September.

US soybean year is September-August, so that report is telling us what soybean exports were Sept 1 to Oct. 2.

China is buying Soybeans now, as the futures price graph shows, so it won't take take long to catch up if it continues.

[Riva]

Real men don’t eat soybeans.

[Mr. Bumble]

No tofu and soy milk for you.
Maybe some bio diesel?

[Malika la Maize]

Provincial Bumble never heard of edamame?

[Mr. Bumble]

So cosmopolitan.
Does it go well with feline fricasie?

[Malika la Maize]

You can get it at most Chinese restaurants, if that’s cosmopolitan to you…

[Frank Drackman]

Problem with the Kum-of-sum-yung-gai is an hour later you're hungry for more.

[Mr. Bumble]

@Qualika:
You're the one who referred to me a "provincial" for not being familiar with edamame. It's young soybeans and edamame only came into English usage within the last 20 years or so.
It's just a foreign name for pig and pajama boy food.

[Riva]

Edamame is a Japanese dish. It literally means "stem beans" in Japanese you fucking imbecilic antisemitic second string parrot troll

[ducksalad]

Another self-own by Riva.

Malika's point was that it's so normalized that it's not restricted to Japanese restaurants anymore, thus, one doesn't have to be cosmopolitan to know about them.

Everyone else in the thread is two steps ahead of you. And always will be.

[Riva]

Not really shithead. The fucking imbecilic troll thought he was referring to a generic soy dish but failed to understand (as you do because you’re equally an fucking idiot) that while soybean dishes may be part of Chinese cuisine, edamame is a Japanese dish.

And I suspect this will end this exchange because, in addition to being a fucking idiot, you don’t have the integrity to acknowledge your error.

[Bob from Ohio]

"tofu and soy milk"

Yuck and Yuck,

[Jmaie]

No and yes…

[Malika la Maize]

Real bots certainly don’t.

[Drewski]

The book "Real Men Don't Eat Tofu" was satire. Right-wingers never understood that.

[Dr. Ed 2]

QUICHE.

It was "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche" -- which is made from eggs, broccoli, and cheese.

It was 43 years ago, when we still had real men.

[Mr. Bumble]

Testosterone supplements will help you, Ed.

[BrotherMovesOn]

Don't give him any ideas.

[Kazinski]

No but pigs do, and China raises lots of pigs to feed its billion people.

[Commenter_XY]

Thanksgiving is almost upon us, and I know that pecan and pumpkin pies are in vogue. However, pound cake is also a tradition around this time of year.

https://myownsweetthyme.com/2021/07/a-basic-old-fashioned-pound-cake/

This is my basic 'go to' recipe. Very simple. Two enhancements you can do: Add 1 TBSP lemon juice, and 1 TBSP of baking powder.

Start with room temperature ingredients. I cannot emphasize this enough. And a KitchenAid stand mixer is your best friend.

[Mr. Bumble]

FWIW Elvis Presley's favorite pound cake.
https://www.food.com/recipe/elvis-presleys-favorite-whipping-cream-pound-cake-36806
Will have to talk my wife into making it again. When he was growing up it was my son's favorite dessert.

[Commenter_XY]

I am just getting to the point of being acquainted enough with my TN neighbors to trade a few recipes. Took a while.

[not guilty]

Several days ago I baked a pecan cream cheese pie. It was delicious.

The recipe is here: https://marketgrow.com/pecan-cream-cheese-pie/

What part of TN are you settling into, XY?

[Kazinski]

Speaking of Thanksgiving, I saw Turkey's at .99 at Costco yesterday.

Probably they're that cheap because China wasn't buying Soybeans.

[Brett Bellmore]

I just finished stocking up for the coming year, filled a freezer with 49 cent a pound turkeys. OK, more like 70 cents a pound, once you subtract all the ice that they count as part of the weight, but it's still a great deal when hamburger is running $7.50 a pound or so. (Actually more expensive than leg of lamb!)

Well, a couple of them only camped out in my freezer overnight, dropped them off at St Vincent DePaul this morning. It's still enough turkey to keep withdrawal symptoms at bay for another year.

Most of them are 12 pounders, the largest my wife will ordinarily tolerate me roasting any time besides Thanksgiving. Anything bigger I end up breaking up for parts. But one 26 pounder went straight to the cooler in the garage to thaw for Thanksgiving. Should be thawed by Tuesday, then I can dump it in the sweet tea brine until Thanksgiving morning.

[ducksalad]

The supermarkets know that some customers (like me) buy by apparent size and total cost. Bought my usual package of three select chuck eye steaks, same place on the shelf as always, same appearance, and same price range ($10-$12). Got them home and realized they were a quarter-inch thick, used to be a half inch.

Oh well, it'll help hold off the gout.

[Josh R]

Indeed, the Thanksgiving meal really is cheaper this year (but not by the faux 25% Walmart figure trump repeatedly touts). But, it's almost all due to the turkey with the bulk of everything else being more expensive.

Or, perhaps not. Don't buy the ham.

[ThePublius]

Anti-Trump article, that is.

"This year, the price of Thanksgiving dinner is generally down compared to 2024, with the national average for a classic meal falling by 3% to 6%. For example, the American Farm Bureau Federation found the average classic meal was $55.18 in 2025, which is 5% lower than the previous year. This decrease is driven by lower prices for some staples like turkeys, which are down 16.3%, and dinner rolls, which are down 14.6%. However, costs for some items are still rising, and regional differences exist. "

[Josh R]

The article you quoted (my first link) is anti-Trump? Or, is it my second link? And why in either case?

[hobie]

I took my two Halloween pie pumpkins yesterday and turned them into eight loaves of pecan, chocolate chip pumpkin bread. One for me, the rest for the neegroes

[Frank Drackman]

No Brazil Nuts?
Not Bolsanaro, the actual Nut.

[Kazinski]

Here is Robby Soave, who writes for Reason and TheHill:

"I was reflexively disinclined to believe it was all foreign accounts promoting racism and anti-Semitism under the guise of the pro-Trump America First banner. That sounded too easy, and similar to the (now debunked) idea that all the Trump content on Facebook in 2016 was actually Russian bots.

But... this "account based in" feature actually has unmaked tons of groypers as Pakistani, as far as I can tell? Very useful feature, and kudos to Elon Musk and the X team for implementing it. The hate is not coming from inside the house!"

https://x.com/robbysoave/status/1992600174460362998?s=20

It does make me wonder when we get a rando newbie drop in here for a half dozen comments dropping Nbombs and then we don't hear from them again until they spin up another account, more than wonder.

[ducksalad]

(seven letters)(three numbers)

[Malika la Maize]

In an era defined by major political divisions and massive wealth accumulation for the richest Americans, billionaires are spending unprecedented amounts on U.S. politics. Dozens have stepped up their political giving in recent years, leading to a record-breaking surge of donations by the ultrarich in 2024. Since 2000, political giving by the wealthiest 100 Americans to federal elections has gone up almost 140 times, well outpacing the growing costs of campaigns, a Washington Post analysis found.

In 2000, the country’s wealthiest 100 people donated about a quarter of 1 percent of the total cost of federal elections, according to a Post analysis of data from OpenSecrets. By 2024, they covered about 7.5 percent, even as the cost of such elections soared. In other words, roughly 1 in every 13 dollars spent in last year’s national elections was donated by a handful of the country’s richest people...

Overall, billionaires have rallied behind Trump’s Republican Party. More than 80 percent of the federal campaign spending by the 100 wealthiest Americans in 2024 went to Republicans, The Post found.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2025/billionaires-politics-money-influence/

[Stephen Lathrop]

If political donations outpace campaign spending, who is getting the bribes?

[Riva]

And how many real charities do republicans contribute to versus democrats? Political gain is all the leftist trash really cares about. The thought of contributing to legitimate charities helping those in need never crosses their broken greedy little minds.

[Malika la Maize]

It doesn’t know how to make relevant posts, not programmed to do that.

[Riva]

Fucking imbecilic antisemitic second string parrot troll cuts and pastes a WP piece, literally parroting the words of others because the fucking imbecile is too stupid to craft his own argument. And then, unable to understand a counter response that points out a more telling distinction in the habits of wealthy donations than the thinly veiled WP attack on President Trump, makes even more of an ass of himself.

You're outdoing yourself today shithead. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for you.

[Drewski]

Democrats donate to non-political charities at almost 20 times the rate of Republicans. For religious charities it's only like 5x.

[Jerry B.]

Cite, please.

[Brett Bellmore]

I don't see how that could possibly be the case. I suspect he has a very eccentric definition of "political charity".

[Frank Drackman]

Ass, his, out of.

[Absaroka]

Do you happen to remember your source for the 20X claim?

I googled "charitable donations by political party" and the first</a and second hits say that charitable giving is a little higher on the red side, as opposed to 20X the other way.

[Mr. Bumble]

Radio silence.

[hobie]

A lot of politicians on both sides are now framing our division not as left v. right but rather the billionaires against everyone else. And I agree. The tech titans may be progressive on paper, but as we see with this last election cycle, they support whoever gives them the most money, power and deregulation. I think the big five will be unstoppable in 5-10 years

[BrotherMovesOn]

Who/what are the big five, equities or people?

[Mr. Bumble]

hobie isn't much for details.

[hobie]

Amazon, FB, Google, Microsoft, Elon. I doubt anything on earth will be able to surpass them and they are going to monopolize nearly all aspects of life

[Mr. Bumble]

Nothing lasts forever.
Think of Sears, GM, US Steel and any number of companies that were king of the hill.

[Commenter_XY]

Surprising no one, yet again, the human animals known as hamas are violating yet another ceasefire with Israel.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-874835

This time, there will be no quarter. The traditional rules of the neighborhood shall apply; submit, or die. And they (hamas) can all die; the world will be a materially safer place with all hamas members dead.

[Malika la Maize]

Well, it finally happened. As of Friday, Ford built the last Focus.

The news supposedly first came courtesy of the Blue Oval’s employees, after which the company confirmed to Motor1 that the final example was a white five-door hatchback.

Now, Ford hasn’t exactly been shy about its discontinuation plans for the model. Quite the opposite — it first pulled the Focus from the American market in 2018, and it later announced that electrification would eventually bring an end to the nameplate in Europe (targeting this year).

Still, even with the advance notice, the retirement of the Focus amounts to a great loss to the industry. It not only speaks to the state of the Blue Oval’s own lineup, but also to that of the automotive world at large.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/ford-focus-production-discontinued/

[Commenter_XY]

There are plenty of ICE (internal combustion engine) cars to replace the Focus. The industry is unaffected by the Ford Focus going away.

It was a car, with nothing particularly outstanding about it.

[Malika la Maize]

From the article:

Accordingly, the Focus made for a huge volume seller throughout its production life. During the car’s 27-year run, the Blue Oval managed to move over 12 million examples.

What’s more, even though Ford engineered the Focus as an economical compact, that’s not to say that the model was without its enthusiast appeal. Quite the opposite, in fact.

The ST first appeared in 2002 in the form of the ST170, bringing upgrades like stiffer suspension, revised styling and larger brakes. However, as much as it previewed the Blue Oval’s hot hatch intentions, the model’s bigger sibling is what really demonstrated the company’s capabilities.

That’s because the Focus RS gave owners rally car thrills for the road. Between a punchy turbocharged engine, a grippy AWD system, a manual transmission and some slick visual upgrades, it had all the makings of a proper slide machine (especially in tasty limited-edition RS500 guise). Ken Block’s endorsement didn’t hurt, either.

[Mr. Bumble]

All things must pass.

[Frank Drackman]

Back in the imaginary Summer on one of my imaginary medical assignments seeing imaginary Veterans I hit an imaginary Deer with my imaginary Rental Car, still drivable, but not safe, exchanged it for an imaginary 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage (an "Imaginary" Mirage, get it?), 4 doors, 1200cc 3 Cylinder engine, 75 HP(Hamster Power)
Actually got slightly worse mileage than the Altima it replaced, it was all those Hamsters could do to maintain 80mph (it's the speed limit in South Dakota).
There Queenie, that's your set up for your inevitable Hamster Joke.
Surprisingly everything worked better than most of the Amurican Cars I've driven.

Frank

[Frank Drackman]

UPS MD11 that crashed in Louisville had 90,000+ Flight Hours, time for a mandatory retirement age for Airliners?
OK, there might already be one, the Freighters operate under different rules.
And don't tell me about "100 yr old B52's" the remaining ones were built in 1962, so they're as old as me, but only average about 20,000 Flight Hours, as the "H" models didn't fly in Vietnam, and mostly sat Nuke-ular Alert through the 60's, 70's, and 80's. For a time in the 90's the USAF even bought some King Air Turbo Props so the B52 Pilots could get more flight time.
And it's not so much the Hours, but the "Cycles" Aviation-ese for 1 takeoff and landing, the UPS Jet had 21,043, only 1 of which where an Engine decided not to go along.
1 crash in 21,043 flights?? not too bad, unless you're on (or in the way of) that 1.

Frank

[ThePublius]

How much do you want to be that this is due to the same old improper maintenance of using a fork lift to put engines back on the pylon, as has been proven to be the cause of previous such accidents. If so, heads should roll.

https://skiesmag.com/news/ups-md-11-crash-preliminary-report-suggests-engine-pylon-failure/

[Dr. Ed 2]

It should have been able to fly on two engines.

I think it was the same thing as 1979 and maintenance damaging a pylon. FAA has grounded the model, it won't fly again, but I wonder about maint.

[ThePublius]

"It should have been able to fly on two engines."

Ed, it probably could have flown on two engines, if one wing pylon engine fell off when they were at cruising altitude. The recovery would have probably cost them a few thousand feet of altitude and soiled underwear.

Note that this incident occurred close to the ground, and there was literally no time or altitude to do anything about it.

[jb]

Also, it's not just like the engine quietly dropped off. It flew off the wing with power, went over the top of the plane, and lit the wing on fire in the progress. The pictures in the report make it pretty obvious that the plane wasn't going to be able to fly anywhere.

[ThePublius]

Yes, agreed.

[Zarniwoop]

Agreed. It also appears that the tail engine may have ingested debris from the wing engine, as video shows bursts of flame coming out of the tail engine. Per experts, this would induce compressor stall in the engine. So they were down to one engine, basically.

[Kenneth Almquist]

According to the preliminary report:

The airplane initially climbed but did not get higher than about 30 ft above ground level (agl) according to radio altitude data from the FDR. (Based on FAA-provided ADS-B data, the last data point showed 481 ft mean sea level and 100 ft agl.) The airplane cleared the blast fence beyond the end of runway 17R, but the left main landing gear impacted the roof of a UPS Supply Chain Solutions warehouse at the southern edge of the airport. The airplane then impacted a storage yard and two additional buildings, including a petroleum recycling facility, and was mostly consumed by fire.

So the pilots were able to get the airplane off the ground, but not very high off the ground. While the plane is surely designed to fly on two engines, two engines produce less thrust than three engines, so the loss of an engine would limit the ability of the plane to climb. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were other things that contributed to the failure of the airplane to gain more altitude. We will have to wait for the final report to get a full analysis, including a bit more clarity on just how high the plane did get.

[Frank Drackman]

(Moe Howard Dope Slap)
You Im-be-cile, the debris from the "Departing" #1 Engine got, umm, what's that Engineering term??
"Sucked" into the Center #2 Engine, causing it to fail also, so they were left with only 1 Engine (advanced Engineering Math, 3 Rubber Duckies minus 2 Rubber Duckies equals how many Rubber Duckies???)
Trying to get 600,000 lbs in the air, 200,000lbs of which was fuel.
Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

Wouldn't the FDR record reduced performance from said Rubber Duckie, even if the crew didn't notice & comment on it?

[Dr. Ed 2]

We've gone from "Jewish Space Lasers" to "Kill the Jews" -- I think that ignorance is better than malice.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/22/trump-mtg-mamdani-maga-future-00666113

[Malika la Maize]

Haitians Rejoice Over Their First World Cup Berth in 50 Years

The national team’s success in landing a World Cup slot gave Haitians around the world a momentary reprieve from their country’s deep crises…

He said the celebrations after the win on Tuesday reminded him of those when Haiti qualified for its only other World Cup, in 1974, when he was 15. The difference now, he said, is the country’s deep “multidimensional crisis.”

Because of the violence, Haiti’s team has not played in its home country since 2021 — the national stadium was occupied by armed groups last year — and it has instead adapted to life on the road. Most of its home games have been played on the island of Curaçao, where Mr. Oslet lives and runs a Haitian food catering business.

Many Haitians expressed delight at the 2-0 win over Nicaragua that guaranteed Haiti a place in the 2026 competition, which will be hosted by the United States, Mexico and Canada.

Celebrations in Haiti, including the violence-ravaged capital, Port-au-Prince, stretched for many hours, Haitians said. “It was kind of like carnival,” said Jenel Loubeau, 27, a youth soccer coach in Les Cayes, a city in southern Haiti.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/23/world/americas/haiti-world-cup.html

[ThePublius]

"Most of its home games have been played on the island of Curaçao, where Mr. Oslet lives and runs a Haitian food catering business."

No more cats in Curaçao, I guess.

So, Hatians rejoice after their soccer team, who can't even play in Haiti due to the endemic violence and armed gang governance, wins a berth in the World Cup. Meh. They're not even really a Haitian team anymore, they're a Netherlands Antilles team, in my view.

I wonder how many Haitian players will remain in (defect to) the U.S. or Canada after the games?

[Frank Drackman]

Probably none, Curacao is pretty sweet.

[Mr. Bumble]

Will hobie be hosting the Haitian team at his mansion?

[ThePublius]

I don't think so. He's in Cleveland, no?

"The eleven U.S. venues for the 2026 FIFA World Cup are: AT&T Stadium in Dallas, Texas; MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey; Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, Georgia; Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Missouri; NRG Stadium in Houston, Texas; Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, California; SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California; Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Lumen Field in Seattle, Washington; Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts; and Hard Rock Stadium in Miami Gardens, Florida."

[Dr. Ed 2]

Schaefer Stadium.
F*ck Gillette.....

[hobie]

I'm up to my eyeballs in Neegroes, Bumble. I don't need any more.

[Frank Drackman]

That's a Jimmy Buffet song,
"Fins to the left, Fins to the right"

Frank

[Sarcastr0]

No more cats in Curaçao, I guess.

Fucking racist asshole whines about civility. This is why no one buys your 'you're being a jerk' bullshit.

[ThePublius]

It's a joke, directed at you and hobie.

Gotcha.

Lighten up, Francis.

[Sarcastr0]

Oh, so you were being racist ironically

Oh yeah, that's fine then!

Even if you're racist, you don't need to post racist shit.

It goes to the baseline hypocricy about how you don't want people to swear, and then you do this shit.

[ThePublius]

First, it's not racist. Many cultures eat cats, the Chinese most notably, but around the world, including Vietnam, Africa, Indonesia, the Philippines, India, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, and yes, even Switzerland and Italy. I never said anything racist or maligned the Haitians in racist terms.

Second, it wasn't irony, it was just humor, in the form of bait for you and hobie, which you swallowed, hook, line and sinker.

You often play the race card with absolutely no basis.

[Sarcastr0]

Claiming you got no issue with cat eating is a lie; don't be a fucktard.

As they say, if you fuck a goat, even if you say it's for the lulz, you're still a goat-fucker.

[Mr. Bumble]

Cementing his place as a Douche and a fuckwit.
Il Douche rules.

[ThePublius]

I never said I had no issue with cat eating, liar. I never said I condone it, or approve of it, or anything like that. I'm just pointing out that it exists, and that me pointing it out doesn't make me a racist.

[Sarcastr0]

I gave you too much credit, then.

The fact that some groups eat cats is not relevant to whether or not you're a racist.

[ThePublius]

Oh, so regardless, in your view, I'm a racist.

Il Douche rules!

[Kazinski]

I've lived in countries where dog eating is common, I'm supposed to go around looking down my nose at my neighbors, and not come by when they invite me over for deep fried crickets and beer.

They eat horse in France, which is illegal here, what's the difference?

[Malika la Maize]

Hobie and Sarcastro live in Haiti or Curaçao? Or was this an “I’m going to own some libs by echoing derogatory comments about Haitians my Dear Leader said” from our very own Captain Civility*?

* but not for his side!

[ThePublius]

"Hobie and Sarcastro [sic]* live in Haiti or Curaçao?"

Wow, you have a comprehension problem.

It's 'Sarcastr0.' Please try to respect the man's name.

[Mr. Bumble]

It's Il Douche.

[Malika la Maize]

Pile on your pathetic takeaways. Punching down, so much fun!

[Mr. Bumble]

Hahahahahahahaha.

[Bob from Ohio]

"It's a joke, directed at you and hobie. "

Despite his name, Sarcasto has no sense of humor

[Life of Brian]

It's become a real truth in advertising problem. For the past decade or so it's been more like Sophistr0.

[Mr. Bumble]

"Fucking racist asshole whines about civility."
Not kind and gentle Il Douche.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Fucking racist asshole" is civil, right?

[Sarcastr0]

TP doesn't like the swears.

It's me doing a funny joke, so it doesn't count.

[Bob from Ohio]

You have never been funny.

[ThePublius]

Eating cats is not unheard of.

"While the practice is rare or banned in most places, the consumption of cat meat occurs in some regions across Asia, Africa, and parts of Europe and South America, often driven by tradition, perceived health benefits, or historical famine.
Asia
The majority of cat meat consumption globally takes place in Asia, though it is not a widespread practice among most of the population in these countries.
China: Cat meat is not widely eaten, but consumption occurs in southern provinces like Guangdong and Guangxi, where some believe it is a "warming" food in winter. The city of Shenzhen banned the consumption of cat and dog meat in 2020, and the national government has reclassified dogs as companion animals, signalling a shift in attitude.
Vietnam: Cat meat, often referred to by the euphemism "little tiger," is consumed in some regions, particularly in the north. The practice was previously illegal until 2020, and the high demand has led to a trade in stolen pets and strays.
South Korea: Historically, cat meat was consumed as a folk remedy (often in the form of a tonic or "cat soju") for ailments like neuralgia and arthritis, rather than as a common food.
Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar: Cat meat consumption exists in parts of these countries, often as a niche business or traditional protein, though growing local opposition is present.
India: The Irula people in Southern India have a tradition of consuming cat meat, and cases of cat meat being sold as mutton have been reported.
Europe
Consumption in Europe is extremely rare today, generally a remnant of historical famine or a highly controversial local practice.
Switzerland: It is legal for individuals to eat their own cats or dogs, provided they are slaughtered humanely, but the commercial sale of the meat is banned. Animal rights groups have campaigned to fully outlaw the practice.
Italy: Cat stew was a known dish in some areas during times of famine, such as during World War II, but this is not a contemporary practice.
Africa and the Americas
Africa: In some cultures in Cameroon and the Volta Region of Ghana, a ceremony featuring cat-eating is thought to bring good luck, and cat meat is known as a local delicacy. In Madagascar, consumption is typically an opportunistic means to obtain inexpensive meat.
Peru: Cat meat is not a regular menu item, but is used in stews and other dishes during specific Afro-Peruvian religious festivals in certain towns, a practice that has faced legal challenges due to animal cruelty concerns.
United States: The commercial slaughter and trade of cat meat was federally outlawed with the Dog and Cat Meat Trade Prohibition Act of 2018, though consumption was legal in most states before this.
In many places where the practice occurs, especially in Asia, it is often tied to older generations, cultural beliefs about medicinal properties, or poverty-driven necessity. There is a growing opposition among younger generations who increasingly view cats as companion animals, and local and national bans are becoming more common. The trade also poses significant public health risks, including the spread of rabies and zoonotic diseases."

Check out this BBC story from 2017:

"But an estimated 30 million dogs across Asia, including stolen family pets, are still killed for human consumption every year, according to the Humane Society International., external

While not widespread, the charity says the practice is most common in China, South Korea, The Philippines, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and the region of Nagaland in India."

The countries where people still eat cats and dogs for dinner

[Sarcastr0]

Doing an AI-generated wall of text to take out a strawman is an asshole move as well.

[ThePublius]

You're the asshole. Can't take a joke. And can't refute anything in that "wall of text" I posted, nor the BBC article I linked, because it's all true. So you just project rage and accuse me of racism, which is the typical liberal response.

[Sarcastr0]

Person A doesn't care for racist jokes.
Person B made a racist joke.

Person B provided an irrelevant wall of text when called out.

Pretty sure it's well established who is the asshole in that situation.

[ThePublius]

It was not a racist joke.

Why do you lot always play the race card?

[Estragon]

Was it even a joke? What’s the punchline?

[Estragon]

LOL this copy pasta is kind of weak.
It does remind me of the original comment however, when many huckleberries (yourself included? I can’t remember) spent about a week frantically searching the internet for information about traditional Haitian culinary practices in an attempt to justify an admittedly false anecdote from JD Vance. As Scott Adams said, it was false but “directionally true.”

I took solace in the idea that however offense and untrue “they’re eating the dogs… they’re eating the cats” was the silver lining was that perhaps you people were actually learning something about another culture and expanding your horizons a bit. So I’m glad you’re still out there learning about how people outside the us live, even if it is only a pasted return of an AI prompt. Stay curious!!

As for “lighten up Francis” well, we’ve been over this territory before. Humor tips from the same people who laughed at the idea of Paul Pelosi being hit in the head with a hammer are always so enlightening. “Lighten up Francis” from the people who tried to get Kimmel cancelled is also very illuminating.

Finally I will just add here that making jokes and kidding on the square are not the same thing.

[ThePublius]

"as for “lighten up Francis” well, we’ve been over this territory before. Humor tips from the same people who laughed at the idea of Paul Pelosi being hit in the head with a hammer are always so enlightening. “Lighten up Francis” from the people who tried to get Kimmel cancelled is also very illuminating."

Except I did neither of those things.

[Estragon]

Wow, gold star for you

[Malika la Maize]

Yeah, you just echoed a derogatory slur of a long suffering people while resenting this moment of good news for them.

[ThePublius]

I take your point, I honestly do. But the suffering of the Haitian people is at the hands of Haitian people. I don't know what's going to happen to those poor people and that country, but the outlook is grim. Note that the national football (soccer) team can't even play or train in their own country, as the stadium has been taken over by a gang. I don't think there's a functioning government. It's like the Somalia of the Western Hemisphere.

[Estragon]

One further comment here. Racist jokes have a long and colorful history. I am always reminded of Fuzzy Zoeller for some reason. And it’s not as if these “jokes” about Haitians eating pets and floating garbage patches did any lasting political damage to the party centering them. If you want to tell racist jokes— anonymously on the internet by the way— I don’t see why you should be shy about that. It just seems to me that we doth protest a bit too much when we tell the joke, and then start claiming it’s not bigoted because people in Korea eat dogs and actually it was REALLY an 8-d chess trap designed specifically to ensnare hobie and Sarc, demonstrating THEY’RE the real racists. I mean— can you get any more beta-cuck than that?

You want to tell bigoted jokes about Haitians eating pets. Fine! Why be such a pussy about it? We’re living in Trumps America now. EV will let you continue posting here to your hearts delight— I assure you!

[ThePublius]

Explain to me how it's racist.

[Estragon]

Explain to me why the “joke” is funny.

[ThePublius]

It was a jab at Sarc and hobie referring to an open thread thing from long ago.

[Estragon]

Again. Protesteth too much. I bet this “joke” sounded a lot more clever on your head.

[Kazinski]

I'm not a bot, I can give you directions to the food cart that sells dog meat in Phnom Penh, its on the corner of Highway1, right past the wet market on the east bank of the bridge over the Tonle Bassac river.

I don't know if they have a cat meat special, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Malika la Maize]

“If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that’s what I’m going to do.”

[John 4]

This is fucking hilarious.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Switzerland has banned the eating of lobster but allows the eating of cats & dogs -- and considers itself civilized?!?

[Estragon]

“banned the eating of lobster”

False, unsurprisingly.

[ThePublius]

"No, Switzerland has not banned the eating of lobsters, but it has banned the practice of boiling them alive without stunning them first."

There's more, about transporting them on ice, etc. Tree hugger bullshit.

My brother used to insist that I pith lobsters before I dropped them in the boiling water, but I just ignored him.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Interesting -- last I heard they'd banned them outright -- I was considering exporting them to Switzerland.

I don't understand the "in their natural environment" requirement -- stagnant salt water will kill them, it's got to be circulating or they will suffocate. WTF???

[ThePublius]

"Yes, Switzerland allows the eating of cats and dogs, but it is not explicitly permitted to sell the meat. "

[Mr. Bumble]

What's next? Dead clams and oysters on the half shell?

[Malika la Maize]

Christ, what an asshole. I’m not sure if you’re more resentful of their current joy or reveling in their usual misery.

[Frank Drackman]

Christ was an Asshole??
Talk about butchering the language! I get that maybe he (I mean "He") was a bit sanctimonious and "Holier than Thou" and thought He walked on water, but (if you buy the story) he, I mean "He" WAS Holier than Thou (Thou-est??) and did walk on Water(I always picture Him doing it like one of those Water bugs)

Frank "Let's eat, Mom"

[Mr. Bumble]

Two days in a row with three Open Threads.
Has HAL 9000 taken control?

[Sarcastr0]

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2025-11-22/la-man-was-detained-in-immigration-raid-no-one-knows-where-he-is

Witnesses saw a man get detained by DHS six weeks ago. A friend detained with him saw him have a medical incident while detained and get taken out by an ambulance.
︀︀Then he disappeared. DHS says they have no record of him. No hospital either.
He’s just… gone.

One might be forgiven in making an adverse assumption as to what happened to this guy.
DHS fucking sucks, man.

[ThePublius]

So, he was put into an ambulance, and hasn't been heard of since. How is that a DHS issue? Do they run ambulance services or hospitals? Did he give his real name to DHS and the ambulance and hospital? (He didn't have his wallet.)

Why so quick to malign DHS?

[Mr. Bumble]

Because he's Il Douche.
Douche
someone who is more than a jerk, tends to think he's top notch, does stuff that is pretty brainless, thinks he is so much better than he really is, and is normally pretty good at ticking people off in an immature way.

[BrotherMovesOn]

Do you think that the VC readers are too dim to understand that you dislike Sarcastr0's politics, and you call him a douche even when you're not involved in a conversation, on a daily basis?
Do you think that the VC readers will forget that you dislike Sarcastr0's politics, and call him a douche, unless you remind them on a daily basis?
If the answers are 'no' then why do you do it?

[Mr. Bumble]

Because I can, fuckwit.

[BrotherMovesOn]

So you're a 7 year old. Got it.

[Mr. Bumble]

You get 1/2 credit for getting one number right.

[Stella Link's Ghost]

[hobie]

Because he was technically in DHS custody?

[ThePublius]

You don't know that to be the case. He was supposedly transported in an ambulance to a hospital. I don't know either, but I assume that would break DHS's custody, and put him in the ambulance's and hospital's custody.

"The Department of Homeland Security said 73 people from Mexico were arrested in the Los Angeles area between Oct. 7 and 8.

“None of them were Ventura Aguilar,” said Tricia McLaughlin, the assistant Homeland Security public affairs secretary."

That could be because he didn't identify himself. Who knows?

There are just too many questions and unknowns here to start blaming anyone.

[hobie]

"...and put him in the ambulance's and hospital's custody."

Oh brother...where to begin

[Mr. Bumble]

What's stopping you?

[ThePublius]

O.K., begin - what is it?

[ThePublius]

crickets...

[ducksalad]

Pub, just admit you were confused about what "custody" means.

[ThePublius]

I'm not at all confused about what custody means. In this case, there is not documented chain of custody of this person, and a report that he was taken by ambulance to the hospital; and we don't know how that happened, and whether he was consigned by DHS to the ambulance and hospital staff or not. I assume so. Do you think an DHS agent accompanied him to the hospital? If so, why do you think so?

So, tell me, what do you know about this case that I do not?

[Sarcastr0]

documented chain of custody of this person

1. Chain of custody is not for people, it's for evidence.

2. Do you think DHS put them in the ambulance and then were like 'OK, our job is done. Vaya con Dios?'

[ThePublius]

"1. Chain of custody is not for people, it's for evidence."

Bullshit.

"A "chain of custody for persons" refers to the documented, chronological record of who has had control over a person who is a subject of a legal or official process, such as a defendant, witness, or victim, from the time they are taken into custody until they are released or presented in court. This documentation is critical to ensure the person's rights are protected, and their presence or testimony remains authentic, untampered with, and un-coerced. It tracks their movement, location, and handling, and is maintained to prevent claims of improper treatment, substitution, or falsification."

"2. Do you think DHS put them in the ambulance and then were like 'OK, our job is done. Vaya con Dios?"

Sure, why not? Could happen. DHS has limited resources, and they may just have cut him loose given the medical issue, and that they probably didn't have the resources to have an agent accompany him.

[Sarcastr0]

Relying on AI is not the same as knowledge.

they may just have cut him loose given the medical issue

Yeah, you're in bullshit country now.

[ThePublius]

"Relying on AI is not the same as knowledge."

What about that quote is wrong? I think you are wrong.

[ducksalad]

What do I know about this case that you don't? I know that you're badly confused about what "custody" means and you're trying to bluff your way out of it.

[ThePublius]

You don't understand custody of detainees, I see.

[not guilty]

Whether a person is or is not in custody at a particular time is relevant as to some legal issues (such as whether an interrogation was custodial or whether a search or seizure of the person was lawful), but I have never before heard of "chain of custody" being used in regard to a person.

[ThePublius]

How do you know he didn't just escape? Because you don't know. You don't know what happened to this guy, so you just assume the worst on the part of DHS.

One narrative that's plausible is that he didn't give his real name, faked an illness, and when the ambulance took him, he got away.

Isn't that plausible?

I mean, was he in DHS custody when the ambulance took him away? In whose custody was he?

Lots of questions.

[DDHarriman]

Woah, an anecdote! That's powerful stuff. DHS should be dismantled!!! Now, mind you, DO NOT, apply this same standard to the rest of the government. ONLY to DHS and ICE.

The rest of the government are Gold Hearts, not Black Hearts.

[ThePublius]

Yea, I looked into it, and the only 'story' out there is the one as prepresented in the LA Times article Sarcastr0 linked. No other information available, that I could find. He was here illegally. He left home without his wallet (i.e., I.D.). Was picked up, had a medical event in custody, an ambulance took him away, and that's the last he has been seen or heard from. So, how is this DHS 'disappearing' him? I don't get it. My assumption is that he escaped and is on the lam. If he's still alive and wanted to be found, he would be found.

[Sarcastr0]

What are you talking about? I looked into it before I posted it. I'm not fan of single sourcing.

Turns out there's a Congressional letter of inquiry to Bondi, and plenty of other stories from other outlets as well. MSNBC picked it up and did some independent reporting. Some Spanish outlets as well.

Did you just not check, or are you terrible at Google?'

My assumption is that he escaped and is on the lam
And then DHS lied about having any record of him at all? Do you really think that poorly of DHS?

Or do you not think much at all and only log on here to defend this regime?

[ThePublius]

So, tell me something we don't know from the original story you linked to. Fill in some of the gaps, the details.

Remember, he had no I.D. on him. How is DHS to track him, or his whereabouts if they don't know who he is?

[Sarcastr0]

It's corroborated.

Your theory here is that DHS cut corners on keeping an illegal in custody, and then still lied to cover it up. You do see that's what you're saying, right?

[Mr. Bumble]

"It's corroborated."
?????????
By whom? Your vibes?

[ThePublius]

"It's corroborated."

Oh, really? Can we see the evidence of that?

"Your theory here is that DHS cut corners on keeping an illegal in custody, and then still lied to cover it up. You do see that's what you're saying, right?"

That's not my theory, no.

[ThePublius]

Still waiting on that corroboration.

I searched, the only stories I can find are dupes of the LA Times article on other sites, and variations of it, and something from a congresswoman. No additional facts or other illumination.

I'm still betting on "on the lam."

[ThePublius]

And, still waiting....

[Dr. Ed 2]

Gaslight0 --

Perhaps if DHS wasn't under siege, if they weren't literally being shot at, they might have the time to be more transparent.

Although person disappearing in an ambulance tells me that said person "disappeared" from DHS custody and is very much alive because medical personnel have to document fatalities. You do know that, don't you?

[Bob from Ohio]

"adverse assumption as to what happened"

C'mon dude, just say it, you think ICE/DHS killed him and got rid of the body.

Its crazy talk, but your descent into madness is worse everyday.

[Sarcastr0]

You think I am thinking ICE *killed him?* That would make the ambulance just for show, I guess?

You're a bit off your rocker these days, eh?

[ThePublius]

Well, what are you thinking, and what are you implying? You said "DHS fucking sucks, man," which implies you think DHS did something wrong here, without evidence, I might add. So, what is it?

[Sarcastr0]

My speculation is not worth much, though I'd wager it's a bit better than your flailing.

I think he died from the medical incident while under their control, and they dumped the body and erased their records thinking they could kill the story.

I think they did a coverup. Certainly dishonesty seems their watchword these days.

But note that unlike some posters on here, I'm not going to post like I *know* that's what happened.

[ThePublius]

Ha, ha, ha, that's pretty dark conspiracy thinking, Sarc. Are you serious?

[ThePublius]

Who said the know what happened?

[Bob from Ohio]

"they dumped the body"

Hardly more rational than my take on your initial comment.

[ThePublius]

Sarc:
"I think he died from the medical incident while under their control, and they dumped the body and erased their records thinking they could kill the story."

Also Sarc:
"You think I am thinking ICE *killed him?* That would make the ambulance just for show, I guess?

You're a bit off your rocker these days, eh?"

No, it appears that you're the on off your rocker, Sarc.

I mean, really. Ambulance. EMTs. Dispatchers. Records, records, records. And DHS just 'disappeared' the body? Are you serious?

[ducksalad]

My theory is not as dark as Sarc's.

Step 1. They arrested the guy.

Step 2. He had a medical incident and was sent to the hospital.

Step 3. Because DHS is incompetent and/or setting their arrest-to-officer quota too high, they lost track of him. Competent law enforcement agencies who have someone in custody (you really need to learn what that means, Pub) work with the hospital, either by keeping an officer outside the hospital room, or by asking the hospital's security staff to manage it.

Step 4. Because DHS now has a culture of lying, instead of admitting they lost track of someone, the officers just erased the record. BTW, I don't think it was case of DHS not wanting to look bad to the public. It was a case of the arresting officers not wanting to get disciplined for screwing up.

Postscript: What happened to the guy? Probably checked himself out after he recovered and went into hiding. That's what I'd do.

[ThePublius]

"in custody (you really need to learn what that means, Pub)"

I know exactly what that means. Just as DHS can take someone into custody, they can release them form custody. Just like that.

[ducksalad]

Nice try. They can indeed release someone from custody.

However, that was not your mistake. This was your mistake: there's no such thing as being in "ambulance custody" or "hospital custody". That's why you can check yourself out of the hospital or refuse to get into the ambulance. Unless...you are still in police custody, in which case the cops can tell the ambulance or hospital to give them a call before they let you go.

Summary:
1. You may be right that the DHS officers decided to just release the sick guy. If so they should have recorded it instead of erasing the records.
2. You're tripling down on custody and looking more foolish every time. I thought you were the guy who admitted when you were wrong?

[ThePublius]

I'm not wrong in this case. DHS can just let a guy go with the wave of a hand, especially if he hasn't been 'processed,' and in the case of someone with a medical issue, it's expeditious for them to do this - just release him. I mean, after all, they don't even know who the heck he is, since he had no I.D. on him, Just let him go and be someone else's problem.

[ducksalad]

Since you brought it up, this is another thing on which DHS appears to be cutting constitutional corners.

When they screw up and make a wrongful arrest, or just change their minds about keeping someone, they erase the records and claim the arrest never happened.

The BS about not yet "processed" is an old illegal dodge that got struck down decades ago. LEOs would question someone without a lawyer and then claim the person wasn't arrested - they were merely handcuffed, taken to the station, and grilled for hours, but not arrested! The courts wised up to that quickly. You can't transport someone involuntarily in handcuffs and then claim it wasn't an arrest because you didn't do some magic processing.

I believe the reasons for erasing the records are: (a) to minimize their false arrest statistics, and (b) to eliminate any records that could be used against them in a subsequent complaint or lawsuit.

It is - literally, I believe - partly so that Brett Kavanaugh can continue his fiction that citizens are instantly released after answering a few questions, rather than shackled and driven all over the place. That was part of his justification for allowing ethnic profiling.

[Sarcastr0]

DHS can just let a guy go with the wave of a hand, especially if he hasn't been 'processed,'

This is from criminal law long ago, but if they had a medical incident when in custody, no they cannot. That would be deliberate indifference. There's an affirmative responsibility there.

I mean, what you're arguing for is MASSIVELY fucked up. You do see that, right?

[ThePublius]

I'm not saying it's a good idea or not "MASSIVELY fucked up," I'm just saying it happens.

[Magister]

in the case of someone with a medical issue, it's expeditious for them to do this - just release him. I mean, after all, they don't even know who the heck he is, since he had no I.D. on him, Just let him go and be someone else's problem.

So the concern over the government having to pay for illegal immigrants getting medical care at emergency rooms was entirely performative outrage, like the disease carrying terrorist caravans that only exist just before elections.

[ThePublius]

"Postscript: What happened to the guy? Probably checked himself out after he recovered and went into hiding."

Yes, I think that's what happened, too. Except maybe not "checked himself out," but just walked away. If he checked himself out there'd be a record of that.

Why is that so crazy to think? I mean, Sarc thinks he croaked and DHS 'dumped the body.' Ha, ha, ha.

[ducksalad]

If he just walked away the hospital would have recorded it as a self-discharge against medical advice. If for no other reason, to protect themselves from liability.

It's very possible they did record it, but it's under a different name. People avoiding law enforcement do that.

[ThePublius]

I think we agree, 'though we don't know if it was against medical advice, since we don't know if he was really sick. But yes, he could have walked away to avoid law enforcement, detention, deportation (as he was present illegally).

[ducksalad]

Allegedly present illegally. If anything, releasing him is evidence on the other side.

[ThePublius]

His family says he is here illegally; or, at least, hasn't refuted it.

From the LA Times article:
" A witness told his brother and attorneys that the 44-year-old Mexican immigrant, who doesn’t have lawful immigration status, was taken into custody by immigration authorities on Oct. 7 in SouthLos Angeles and suffered a medical emergency."

That's good enough for me.

[ThePublius]

Yes, Sarc thinks "ICE/DHS killed him and got rid of the body."

Ha, ha, ha.

[Sarcastr0]

I think that. I don't know it; it's idle speculation, and I've been clear about that.

Unlike you, I'm quite open to some other scenario being what happened. ducksalad has a good one. Others might suggest themselves as well.

Your scenario where they just let him go because of resources shortages seems ridiculous to me given DHS's current culture, but hey it could happen.

None of these scenarios reflect well on DHS at all, though. You do see that, right?

[ThePublius]

Of course I'm open to some other scenario, I made that clear. I don't think DHS allowing him to walk reflects poorly on DHS, given resource constraints. Do you know any cops? You can't catch everybody.

[Sarcastr0]

Of course I'm open to some other scenario, I made that clear.
Where did you do this? You've posted a lot on here.

You are now arguing it's legal and even fine for DHS to just release someone having a medical issue and walk away.

You don't know the law. You don't know basic morality.

[ThePublius]

"You are now arguing it's legal and even fine for DHS to just release someone having a medical issue and walk away."

What are they supposed to do? Once they turn him over t medical responders, why can't they just decline to pursue the illegal presence charge?

[ducksalad]

What are they supposed to do?

Record both the arrest and the release. If they'd done that none of this would be under discussion.

[ThePublius]

1. maybe he was never placed under arrest. Law enforcement needn't arrest someone to detain them, or even transport them. The only need reasonable suspicion;

2. maybe they did record it, we just don't know yet;

3. nobody's perfect.

[ducksalad]

Your first sentence is completely wrong. If they put you in restraints and take you away, it's an arrest and requires probable cause.

Maybe you mean it all happened while they were still at the scene, and they called an ambulance.

[ThePublius]

"Your first sentence is completely wrong. If they put you in restraints and take you away, it's an arrest and requires probable cause."

That is not true! You can be detained and transported on reasonable suspicion without being arrested, though there's a time limit on that.

[ducksalad]

"One of the restrictions the Court noted in Dunaway is that the police may not move a suspect from the place of the stop to a police station on the basis of reasonable suspicion without the stopped person’s consent. The Supreme Court has made it clear the transfer of a stopped person from the scene of the stop to a police station requires probable cause."

https://barkanresearch.com/terry-stop/

[wvattorney13]

" maybe he was never placed under arrest."

That's my thought as well. Detain a bunch of people with the intention of sorting it all how and figuring out who is who. In that process, this dude has a medical issue and is sent to the hospital.

We could peel off some agents, pay for his care, document all of this. Or, you know it is almost beer thirty. Forget about that dude.

[not guilty]

"That is not true! You can be detained and transported on reasonable suspicion without being arrested, though there's a time limit on that."

Detention plus transportation merely upon reasonable suspicion? Do you have any authority for that proposition?

Detained in the sense of a Terry stop and frisk? Permissible if the officer had reasonable grounds to believe that the suspect was armed and dangerous. Sibron v. New York, 392 U.S. 40, 63 (1968), citing Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968).

In construing the demands of the Fourth Amendment, courts have recognized three distinct types of police-citizen interactions: (1) a full scale arrest which must be supported by probable cause, see Brown v. Illinois 422 U.S. 590 (1975);  (2) a brief investigatory detention which must be supported by reasonable suspicion, see Terry v. Ohio, supra; and (3) brief police-citizen encounters which require no objective justification, see Florida v. Bostick, 501 U.S. 429, 434 (1991).

“In order to determine whether a particular encounter constitutes a seizure, a court must consider all the circumstances surrounding the encounter to determine whether police conduct would have communicated to a reasonable person that the person was not free to decline the officer's request or otherwise terminate the encounter.” Bostick, 501 U.S. at 440.

"The application of the Fourth Amendment's requirement of probable cause does not depend on whether an intrusion of this magnitude is termed an 'arrest' under state law. The mere facts that petitioner was not told he was under arrest, was not 'booked,' and would not have had an arrest record if the interrogation had proved fruitless, while not insignificant for all purposes," are not dispositive of whether a seizure of the person requires probable cause. Dunaway v. New York, 442 U.S. 200, 212 (1979).

[ThePublius]

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this guy, this story. The most likely outcome is that the story just goes away - he re-emerges with his family, and that's not noticed or reported on, and, of course, the mainstream media will ignore it even if they do. Or, we re-emerges and is again taken into custody by ICE and is ultimately deported; but I'm not confident the press would report on that, either. But, we should stay tuned, just to see who's closest to the truth here on this forum. Did DHS dump is body? Did he just walk away from the hospital? What happened?

Vicente Ventura Aguilar. Remember that name.

[ThePublius]

I wish there was some kind of "saved search" thing for google, or whatever, that would notify me if this guy's name comes up in the news again. Like the eBay saved search feature. Is there such a thing?

[Kazinski]

Doesn't make sense, ambulance trips are logged, and probably GPS monitored, shouldn't be hard to figure out what ambulance, and where they took him.

Wouldn't surprise me if the guy decided he was OK, and "discharged" himself at the hospital or enroute, and is now laying low.

Or it never happened.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

The Svengoolie (a national treasure) film yesterday was Curse of the Undead. This is a horror Western, a mini-genre that warrants more attention. Another potential landmine: the sci-fi Western.

This 1959 "B" film with various familiar faces (including one of the 12 Angry Men) concerns a vampire on the loose in the old West. The hero is the local reverend, who strictly upholds his principles.

There is a reference to a "Spanish land grant," and an old diary is dated with the rather recent date of 1860, which would be over a decade after the Spanish no longer controlled the area.

It is a pleasant enough time-waster, though it ends a bit abruptly. This vampire can also handle the sunlight for a significant amount of time.

[hobie]

Legit question for the rubes:

Turns out there's concrete proof Trump diddled trafficked girls. Do we rationalize it away like everything else, or are you cutting him loose?

[ThePublius]

Where's the proof? Or is this a hypothetical?

[hobie]

Hypothetical.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Turns out that there's also "concrete proof" that Elvis went to Orgy Island, even though he's been dead for 48 years...

Sec with a promiscuous, sexually active 15-year-old is merely malum prohibitum -- a century ago, before abortion & birth control, she'd be a married mother at 15. And what's the difference between her having sex with a dozen 17-year-olds and older men?

If she were a virgin, saving herself for marriage, then malum in se. But these girls were sluts, and there was a time we could call them that.

[hobie]

You should petition to go on Laura Ingraham's show. But I somewhat agree with you. When I was 15 I had sex with 15 year olds...it was great! Heh...I remember with Clinton all the hyseeds were referring to Lewinski as 'a child'. And I thought to myself, 'Jeez, she's 23 years old. What's with the child shit?' Seems our morality differs depending on who's in office...wouldn't you agree, Ed?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Legally, she was 23 years old, an adult.
My bigger issue at the time was the adultery.

[not guilty]

Bill Clinton got a lot of mileage out of the proposition that "Eatin' ain't cheatin'."

History might have turned out differently, though, if he had held out for a girlfriend who swallowed.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

This is sort of old news, as seen from this 2016 article:

At least four women who competed in a Miss Teen USA beauty pageant told BuzzFeed News that Donald Trump walked into their dressing room while the contestants as young as 15 were undressing.

Mariah Billado, the former Miss Vermont Teen USA, tells Buzzfeed that the now 70-year-old Republican presidential candidate caused a panic in the dressing room of the 1997 pageant when he barged in unannounced as the young women were changing.

However, she says Trump shrugged off the intrusion, saying something along the lines of: "Don't worry, ladies, I've seen it all before."

https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-walks-in-miss-teen-usa-contestants-changing/

Also ..

In a different interview, Trump boasted about using his power to sleep with contestants in the Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants, which he owns. When Stern’s co-host Robin Quivers asked if it was a conflict of interest to sleep with pageant contestants, he replied, “It could be a conflict of interest, but, you know, it’s the kind of thing you worry about later, you tend to think about the conflict a little bit later on.”

Trump continued by revealing he would sneak backstage at Miss Universe.

“Well, I’ll tell you the funniest is that before a show, I’ll go backstage and everyone’s getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said. “You know, I’m inspecting because I want to make sure that everything is good.”

https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-howard-stern-interviews-crude-comments-women/

I don't know what "concrete proof Trump diddled trafficked girls" would entail, exactly, but if there is evidence in the Epstein files that he did something inappropriate regarding underage girls, it would not particularly shock me or anything.

Likewise, people have rationalized away fact-based allegations for years now. It might turn on other factors, including Trump's overall political decline in his lame duck years.

[ducksalad]

It might turn on other factors, including Trump's overall political decline in his lame duck years.

This is it. I think it hinges on November 2026, if his endorsement doesn't seem to make much difference he'll get underbussed. If he's still able to name winners he'll keep getting cover.

[Frank Drackman]

There's concrete proof you're a fucking Idiot.

[not guilty]

"Turns out there's concrete proof Trump diddled trafficked girls. Do we rationalize it away like everything else, or are you cutting him loose?"

With the understanding that this is a hypothetical, I would expect the MAGAts to cut their cult leader all the slack he needs. They love it that he hates the same folks that they hate.

Trump would theoretically be at risk of criminal prosecution after he leaves office, though, in the case of victims who are still living. According to 18 U.S.C. § 2323(b):

A person who travels in interstate commerce or travels into the United States, or a United States citizen or an alien admitted for permanent residence in the United States who travels in foreign commerce, with intent to engage in any illicit sexual conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Aubsection (f) there provides that attempts or conspiracies to violate subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) shall be punishable in the same manner as a completed violation of that subsection.

The statute of limitations is tolled during the life of the child by 18 U.S.C. § 3283.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Gigi was on TCM yesterday.

The "Thank Heavens for Little Girls" song is a bit creepy.

[Frank Drackman]

Not nearly as creepy as Klaus Nomi's Cover of "You Don't Own Me"

[not guilty]

Then there's the song that Woody Allen and Soon Yi danced to at their wedding: Thank Previn for Little Girls.

[Michael Ejercito]

https://www.threads.com/@mejercit/post/DRZ74u8iRtX

I find it wild how someone can claim that they object to murdering homeless people, yet refuse to provide a home for them? At that point would they not just be trying to have control over women versus actually caring about these homeless?

[ThePublius]

What on earth are you talking about? This doesn't even make nonsense!

[Brett Bellmore]

So, you're suggesting that, any time you propose to murder somebody, and I tell you not to, I'm suddenly obligated to support that person?

No, I only believe in negative rights. Including positive 'rights' in an ethical theory is like allowing division by zero in math, it opens the door to contradictory and absurd conclusions.

Like your suggestion above that objecting to murdering somebody might obligate you to provide them with support.

[Sarcastr0]

If you click through, he's using it as an analogy about abortion.

It's...not very good.

[Michael Ejercito]

Yes, that argument in favor of abortion has never been good.

I found that argument very flawed at least thirty years ago.

It still persists, as if these people take it as an article of faith.

[Sarcastr0]

It's not really an argument for abortion, it's an argument for the hypocricy of pro-lifers.

It's a fine argument for that thesis, and your counter of an analogy to solving homelessness ignores all the funding the left spends on getting people homes, as compared to conservative politicians not making adoption a cause much at all.

[not guilty]

The late George Carlin said it best:

Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They are all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own.

Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you -- no, nothing! No neonatal care, now day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're pre-born, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked.

Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach military age. Then they think you are just fine -- just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers.

. . . These people aren't pro-life; they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? They'll do anything they can to save a fetus, but if it grows up to be a doctor, they just might have to kill it.

* * *

And speaking of my friends who are Catholic, when John Cardinal O'Connor of New York and some of these other cardinals and bishops have experienced their first pregnancies and their first labor pains and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion. I'm sure it will be interesting, enlightening. But in the meantime what they oughta be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the altar boys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZdRMBTF-hQ

[Michael Ejercito]

Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They are all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own.
Of course, today he would say,

Boy, those liberals are really something. They will let a girl kill her baby, but they would force her to take a vaccine that might eliminate her ability to have babies.

[Magister]

Given what Carlin did say quoted above, it seems far from certain that he would say such a thing; his comments about challenging the immune system suggest that he could easily advocate challenging the immune system by being vaccinated; like his childhood of swimming in the Hudson River, those who survive would have better immune systems. None of the hypocrisy he pointed out among anti-abortionists was involved in vaccine mandates (some hypocrisy in not abiding by shutdown rules, but not unique to people who advocated for vaccines) because the vaccine mandates weren't solely directed at people other than those who advocated them. (And COVID vaccines did not carry a risk of infertility anyway.)

[ThePublius]

Do you think Michael Skakel killed Martha Moxley? And if not, any idea who did?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kennedy-cousin-tied-martha-moxley-case-breaks-silence-50-years-later-murder-remains-unsolved

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Life still has some constants.

NY Giants blowing a 4Q lead and finding a way to lose is one of them.

[Jmaie]

I’m not a sumo fan, but I know there are some here. Just read a story about a Ukrainian refugee in Japan winning the Emperor’s Cup and being on the version of promotion to second rank.

[Sarcastr0]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cp84m625d33o

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"Sue more wrestlers" would be a good name for a law-review article.

[ReaderY]

A federal bankruptcy judge for the Western District of Kentucky has held that the City of Oakland’s attempts to use its regulatory and political persuasion powers to stop a politically unpopular coal terminal in Oakland’s port represents tortious interference with a contract.

In holding that attempts at government regulation of a business constitute tortious interference with it, this judge effectively grants the company involved a kind of title of nobility. It has a sort of laise majeste that the little people and their little government interfere with at their peril. If you attempt to mess with a corporation, if you even bad-mouth it, you can be held liable for any damage it suffers.

I think this ruling is completely contrary to a number of constitutional provisions, not least the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. It grossly interferes with the right and power of the people to have a government. Government may not have the power to issue a particular regulation. But discussing the matter and attempting to regulate can never be tortious interference, just as saying a particular business activity is bad for the public imterest can never be libel.

Given the obvious publc health, safety, and environmental implications of storing and transporting large amounts of coal at a single location, there was an obvious rational basis for Oakland’s actions, whether or not one agrees with the policy , and whether or not state or federal law preempted the City’s efforts to regulate based on it.

Indeed, a case like this richly illustrates the problems with the Court’s animosity jurisprudence. ANYTHING anyone disagrees with or finds inconvenient can be characterized as anomosity. The fact that a judge could be persuaded by a coal company that the City of Oakland acted against a coal terminal because it had irrational and inexplicable animosity to coal - “I do not love thee, Dr. Fell, the reason why I cannot tell” - well illustrates why courts need to be vigilant against the natural human tendency that, as Upton Sinclair put it, it is hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

It is a characteristic of dysfunction in a democratic republic that each side of an issue is quick to accuse its political opponents of having the opinion they have only because they are full of irrational hate. It is the job of judges to temper these tendencies. It is a betrayal of their role to constitutionalize and put their imprimatur behind them.

I think this case illustrates this as well as any other.