The Volokh Conspiracy
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SCOTUS Still Has PTSD From The 2020 Election
The Court will likely find standing in Bost to avoid the "nightmare scenario" of cancelling votes after they are cast.
Yesterday I wrote about Paul Clement's "Article III of the Deal" in Bost v. Illinois State Board of Election. It seems that the Court will find that a member of Congress has standing to challenge a law that permits the counting of absent ballots that are received two weeks after election day. Before the election, the law does not operate directly on candidates. And even after the election, the late-arriving ballots may have no appreciable impact on the outcome of the race. But during oral argument, several justices were mortified by the prospect of funneling these cases to post-election litigation. Specifically, the Justices worried that if the court finds that the Constitution prohibits counting these ballots, then judges would have to disqualify ballots. Indeed, the Supreme Court in particular might have to decide the outcome of the election!
It seemed clear that the Justices still have PTSD from the aftermath of the 2020 election.
Paul Clement, counsel for Representative Bost, spoke to these fears during his opening:
That decision is not only wrong but dangerous. It needlessly injects federal courts into the role of political prognosticators. It risks denying judicial access to minor party candidates, and it shuffles election disputes into the closest races and the worst possible context: Election disputes after the election, where federal courts are in the uncomfortable position of having to pick the political winners.
Justice Kavanaugh asked what would happen if this challenge was brought after the election. Paul Clement described throwing out votes as the "nightmare scenario."
JUSTICE KAVANAUGH: If it were after the election, how would that play out? In other words, if the litigation over issues like this were funneled to post-election? . . . So let's say the losing candidate sues, challenging this rule, and let's say the Court finds it --post-election, finds it illegal. We faced this in 2020 in some of our many cases pre-election. What's the remedy? . . . Do you throw out those votes? Because, if you do, some of those voters might say: Oh, I actually would have voted earlier if I had known. I'm just trying to figure out how that would play out.
MR. CLEMENT: So I think that would be the right remedy. And I think that's kind of a nightmare scenario for exactly the reason that you point out. And I don't think there's any reason for the standing rules to basically say that you have to decide all these issues in those nightmare scenarios or even in the very closest districts.
Later, Justice Kavanaugh reiterated that it would be the Supreme Court, in particular, that would have to decide these contests:
Kavanaugh: You've mentioned the word "chaos" a few times. I guess I'm worried about the chaos of post-election litigation and how would that play out in a circumstance like a challenge to this particular ballot-counting rule. In particular, let's suppose post-election challenge; therefore, no real issue of standing in a real close election, and the rule is found invalid. Have you thought about what the remedy would be in that circumstance? And it presumably comes to this Court. Maybe the House elections ride on it, so we know --we know which way we rule what the impact will be, which is never a good position.
Chief Justice Roberts, who is usually very reserved, seemed agitated by the Respondent's rule. He described Illinois's position as leading to a "potential disaster."
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: I'm sorry. Look, what you're sketching out for us is a potential disaster. In other words, you're saying, if the candidate's going to win by 65 percent, no standing. But, if the candidate, you know, hopes to win by a dozen votes --and there are places in the country where that happens over and over again --then he has standing. But we're not going to know that until we get very close to the election, right? And so it's going to be in the middle, the most fraught time for the Court to get involved in electoral politics. That's when you say we should jump in, as opposed to the more general, broad rule, Mr. Clement's broadest rule, I guess, is, look, he's a candidate. He's challenging a rule in the election. You know,-isn't that enough? And one reason, as I say, we'll be deciding that case then, you know, six months, nine months, maybe two years before the election, as opposed to the day after the votes have been counted.
Chief Justice Roberts, more than any member of the Court, wants to keep the judiciary out of post-election disputes. Then again, Roberts and Kavanaugh did not vote to grant cert in Republican Party of Pennsylvania v. DeGraffenreid (2021). This case would have decided the power of the state supreme court to alter deadlines for mailed ballots, outside the context of a pending election. The majority found the case was moot. Justice Alito, in dissent, aptly stated, "Now, the election is over, and there is no reason for refusing to decide the important question that these cases pose." He was right.
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Roberts doesn’t want the Court to be involved in post election disputes? He might want to have a word with all the lower court judges furthering the democrats’ post election obstruction. And he also might want to let federal law and constitutional concerns govern the Court’s practices, not his personal views.
Ahh, grasshopper, you have forgotten that common law judges discover the law. They don't just blindly interpret the Constitution and statutes handed down from on high by Congress. They look in the penumbras and emanations for those little troubly bits which have dropped through the cracks.
Roberts is merely saying that he would rather discover laws when they have a year to think and ponder and debate, because that is what wise men do, not rush through in a blind panic because the votes have to be decided now, before Congress is seated and begins their session.
Lower court judges are discovering many new executive powers the Constitution doesn’t allow them. Sometimes they even discover that they’d rather not follow inconvenient S.Ct. precedent.
And if Roberts wants to discover the Constitution, I’m sure he could find a copy or two somewhere. He could even run over to the National Archives Building to take a look. You should take a gander yourself, Stupid whatever (rather fitting alias). You’d find that the Congress is the law making branch, not the Judiciary. If Roberts wants to discover new laws he should resign and run for election. By the way sport, federal common law doesn’t supersede the Constitution.
It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.
Could the asshole embarrass himself further? I always think he can’t but then he surprises me.
Bot programmed to just repeat nonsensical talking points. The topic is election results, not all litigation relating to federal action.
You’ve certainly proven that you know a thing or two about nonsensical talking points. But understanding basic constitutional principles? Not so much.
I know you’re a bastard troll asshole, but do you have to be such a stupid bastard troll?
What post election obstruction? Provide examples.
Odd you're so befuddled by the comment. Some on this site celebrate the judicial insurrection almost daily. Is this more asinine sealioning?
"Justice Alito, in dissent, aptly stated, "Now, the election is over, and there is no reason for refusing to decide the important question that these cases pose." He was right."
That seems like a rationale for deciding abstract questions. Wouldn't it be easier to resolve an abortion regulation before someone is threatened with a potential denial of an abortion? But that ignores the standing doctrine.
I think the tension results from the fact that we know people ARE bringing abstract questions but creatively pleading facts to get standing. Nobody sues over $1 in damages but that gets you standing. However, "wanting to live in a world without gay marriage" is likely worth more than $1 to some people, but that doesn't give you standing.
It is random and doesn't map to real world harm. In this case, I doubt Bost is really worried about losing.
Professor Blackman may be too young to remember how much credibility SCOTUS once had, but foolishly pissed away by anointing George W. Doofus while the question of who won the most votes in Florida was still a disputed question.
I thought it was Ralph Nader who disrupted the outcome.
There's plenty of blame to spread around. Poor ballot design, Gore trying to get cute with his own lawsuits, Constitution running out of time. Blaming it all on the Supreme Court is just more partisan sour grapes.
Gore lost on election night, the only reason there was any disruption is that the state supreme court decided to let him keep flipping the coin over and over until he could get heads.
And it took more flips than there was time available for.
Gore lost on election night in that the actual votes were cast then. But as of election night nobody knew who had won or lost.
Technically, you're right: They didn't finish counting until early the next morning.
No, they didn't finish counting for a few weeks.
They finished counting the day after the election and did a recount the next day.
The issue was that the FL courts were going to keep selected counting going until Gore pulled ahead.
They did not finish counting the day after the election. Do you not remember that military ballots had not all come in yet? The Democrats' strategic position was that those ballots shouldn't be counted, but Bush was quick to seize on "Democrats want soldiers disenfranchised," and Lieberman on Tim Russert agreed that the ballots should be counted. A lot of Dems were privately pissed at him for giving up that position.
Al Gore filed his lawsuits seeking the remedies that Florida law authorized him to seek. One irony is that George W Doofus was elected President because thousands of elderly Jews in Palm Beach County mistakenly voted for a Nazi.
Another irony is that media reports after the fact suggested that Bush would have won a statewide recount if it had been permitted to go forward. So (five of) the Republican appointees of SCOTUS squandered the Court's legitimacy to no good end.
Calling Bush a Nazi is a pure ASSHOLE comment.
And being illiterate is a pure bookkeeper_joe comment. NG didn't call Bush a Nazi. He called Patrick Buchanan a Nazi. He called Bush a doofus.
That's assuming the liberal FL Supreme Court would have conducted the recount with fair standards. It had become pretty clear that they were going to keep the counting going until Gore took the lead then stop. They were partisan hacks.
But assuming that SCOTUS directly intervened and ordered the remedy, it would have pushed the vote counting past the safe harbor deadline and Congress could have tossed Florida's vote entirely. The Florida Legislature was in session to appoint electors.
During this SCOTUS ordered count there would have been new legal issues that arose that would be ruled for in Gore's favor in the Florida courts before going back up to SCOTUS. While legally it was a very questionable result, the Court did put an end to what would have been endless recounts.
ng has nothing *but* partisan sour grapes. We all know his actual track record on legal issues is awful. He'll complain about butterfly ballots but not about Florida being called for Gore while polls were still open in a conservative part of the state.
Called by private media outlets? Since you have such a better grasp on legal matters than NG, what should have been done about these private media outlets speaking in this fashion?
Ah NG, you bring up the good old days of Democrat election interference. Good times. They were cute back then when all the they did was infinitely recount paper ballots to reach the “correct” result. But that was before they discovered unverified mail in ballots, drop boxes, ballot harvesting, and that election day was really a month or two, and sometimes after the election.
Throwing a vote on a technicality is unfortunate. In a democracy the only objective legitimacy the government has is the consent of the governed and great deference should be given to get that consent.
It reminds me of old NWA wrestling where commonly the local or current top babyface would wrestle the heel Ric Flair and have Flair pinned, as the refs hand hit the mat for the count of three the bell would ring. The jubilation of the crowd suddenly ended when the announcer stated that the time limit had been reached a millisecond before the three count finished and the result was a draw. The entire show was meant to convey that the baby face was indeed shown he was the “better man” but a technicality had robbed him of his rightful win. This should be avoided in a democracy.
The root causes of the problem are allowing too many mail in ballots and counting any votes received after Election Day. Limit absentee voting to only those people who cannot physically make it to the polls and require everyone else to vote on the same day and the problem goes away.
Yes, I know that SCOTUS can't mandate that.
What is "the problem" that the two things you identify are the root causes of?
Post election vote disputes.
Washington, one of many states that do so, has 100% mail in voting. Tallies are usually available within a few hours, delays are only there in very close races where recounts are needed. The quantity of mail-in ballots is not the issue.
They did not. Why is a law professor so bad at even understanding basic procedural concepts? The majority denied cert. As is virtually always the case, they did not explain their reasons. The only thing that they found to be "moot" was a petition to intervene.
Voting laws need to be challenged before the election. The only challenges allowed after the election is to make sure the laws were followed. This should not be complicated.
If the right modern voting machines are used, there should be very little after the election challenges.