The Volokh Conspiracy
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Court Blocks Impending Firing of South Dakota Art Professor for Vulgar Tweet Calling Charlie Kirk a "Hate Spreading Nazi"
From today's decision by Judge Karen Schreier (D.S.D.) in Hook v. Rave:
Hook is a tenured Professor of Art at the University of South Dakota. He has taught at the University since 2006.
In the late afternoon on September 10, 2025, while at home and off work, Hook posted the following message concerning the recent shooting and killing of Charlie Kirk to his private Facebook account:
Okay. I don't give a flying f*** [the original reads "fuck" -EV] about this Kirk person. Apparently he was a hate spreading Nazi. I wasn't paying close enough attention to the idiotic right fringe to even know who he was. I'm sorry for his family that he was a hate spreading Nazi and got killed. I'm sure they deserved better. Maybe good people could now enter their lives. But geez, where was all this concern when the politicians in Minnesota were shot? And the school shootings? And Capitol Police? I have no thoughts or prayers for this hate spreading Nazi. A shrug, maybe.
Approximately three hours later, while still at home and off work, Hook removed the above message and made a second post. The second post stated:
Apparently my frustration with the sudden onslaught of coverage concerning a guy shot today led to a post I mow [sic] regret posting. I'm sure many folks fully understood my premise but the simple fact that some were offended, led me to remove the post. I extend this public apology to those who were offended. Om Shanti.
Around noon on September 12, 2025, South Dakota Speaker of the House Jon Hansen [and] {also a 2026 candidate for South Dakota Governor} shared a screenshot of Hook's first post and included the following message:
Yesterday, I was made aware of these hateful and vile comments made by a University of South Dakota professor regarding the death of Charlie Kirk and Charlie's family. I am disgusted by his remarks, and think they are unbecoming of someone who works for and represents our University. Yesterday, after seeing the post, I immediately reached out to USD President Sheila Gestring and called on the professor to be fired. I understand that the professor is likely to be terminated from his position. I will keep you posted on the final decision. That kind of disgusting rhetoric from an employee and representative of our university directed toward a good man's family who was recently assassinated will not be tolerated.
A few hours later, South Dakota Governor Larry Rhoden also shared a screenshot of Hook's first post and included the following message:
When I read this post, I was shaking mad. The Board of Regents intends to FIRE this University of South Dakota professor, and I'm glad.
This individual stands in front of South Dakota students to educate them. We must not send the message to our kids that this is acceptable public discourse.
We need more Charlie Kirks on campus and less hatred like this.
Around the same time, Hook received a letter from Kelley notifying Hook of Kelley's "intent to terminate [Hook's] contract as Professor with The University of South Dakota." The letter explained that the reason for Hook's termination was due to violations of SDBOR Policies 4.4.8 and 1.6.1. SDBOR Policy 4.4.8 provides:
Neglect of duty, misconduct, incompetence, abuse of power or other actions that manifest an unfitness to discharge the trust reposed in public university faculty members or to perform assigned duties.
SDBOR Policy 1.6.1 provides:
Faculty members are members of a learned profession. When they speak or write as private citizens on matters of public concern, they must be free from institutional censorship or discipline, but their special position in the community imposes special obligations. As learned people and as educators, they should remember that the public may judge their profession and their institution by their utterances. Hence, they should at all times be accurate, show respect for the opinions of others and make every effort to indicate when they are not speaking for the institution.
The court concluded that Hook had a "fair chance" of prevailing on his First Amendment challenge to the impending firing, and therefore issued a temporary restraining order reinstating Hook from administrative leave (and blocking his firing for the next two weeks):
Because Hook spoke as a citizen and on a matter of public concern, [his speech protected unless] defendants have "produced evidence to indicate the speech had an adverse impact on the efficiency of the [University's] operations." If the court determines there is an adverse impact, then the court applies the balancing test laid out in Pickering v. Board of Education (1968). But "[w]here there is no evidence of disruption, resort to the Pickering factors is unnecessary because there are no government interests in efficiency to weigh against First Amendment interests."
At this stage, defendants have failed to put on evidence that Hook's "speech had an adverse impact on the efficiency of the [University's] operations." Defendants allege that in the days following Hook's post, "hundreds of calls and message were made to the Board of Regents and/or the University of South Dakota commenting negatively regarding the comment or calling for the removal of Professor Hook." But "[m]ere allegations the speech disrupted the workplace or affected morale, without evidentiary support, are insufficient." See also Melton v. City of Forrest City, Ark. (8th Cir. 2025) (finding insufficient evidence of disruption where defendants only alleged that "'several' police officers and city-council members were upset and 'phone lines [were] jammed' with calls from concerned citizens"). Defendants have not demonstrated that there was any disruption to on-campus activities, Hook's teaching lessons, or the University's operations. And without more, "such 'vague and conclusory' concerns … runs the risk of constitutionalizing a heckler's veto." Thus, because defendants have failed to demonstrate any evidence of disruption, the court need not consider the Pickering factors at this stage….
Defendants are required to temporarily set aside their determination to place Hook on administrative leave. Defendants shall reinstate Hook's position as a Professor of Art at the University of South Dakota, retroactive to September 12, 2025, to remain effective until the preliminary injunction hearing on Wednesday, October 8, 2025, at 9:00 a.m. in Sioux Falls Courtroom 2.
Here's a similar, though not identical, analysis from the Third Circuit two weeks ago in the Jason Jorjani case (though at a different stage of that lawsuit), which I blogged at the time:
New Jersey Institute of Technology declined to renew a lecturer's contract based on his private comments about race, politics, and immigration. But NJIT's regulation of speech outside the classroom and off the campus is subject to the restraints of the First Amendment, and the school documented no disruption to its educational mission….
NJIT hired Jason Jorjani in 2015 to teach philosophy, and twice renewed his contract in 2016 and 2017. During this time, Jorjani "formed the Alt Right Corporation," to "widen the message of his philosophy, which he describes as an affirmation of the Indo-European Tradition" and "the idea that European cultures are intimately related to those of Greater Iran and the Persianate World, Hindu India and the Buddhist East and are the sources the [sic] world's greatest scientific, artistic and spiritual developments." He spoke at conferences and published an essay titled "Against Perennial Philosophy" on "AltRight.com," a website he helped found. In the essay, he argued that "human racial equality" is a "left-wing myth" and that a great "Promethean" "mentality" rests on a "genetic basis" which "Asians, Arabs, Africans, and other non-Aryan peoples" lack.
The essay also argued that, through "genetic engineering" and eugenic "embryo selection," Iran could produce great philosophers by "restor[ing] the pre-Arab and pre-Mongol genetic character of the majority of the Iranian population within only one or two generations." Jorjani did not discuss these outside associations with his students or colleagues, nor did he disclose them as required by NJIT policy.
Then, in 2017, a person posing as a graduate student contacted Jorjani to discuss "how the Left persecutes and silences Right wing thought in academia." But he was working with a group called "Hope Not Hate," whose goal is to "deconstruct[ ]" individuals it deems "fascist" or "extremist." The two met at a pub where the undercover operative recorded their conversations, at first with Jorjani's consent. But later, apparently assuming the recording had stopped, Jorjani commented on matters concerning race, immigration, and politics.
The meeting became a piece published by the New York Times featuring a video excerpt from Jorjani's remarks at a conference characterizing "liberalism, democracy, and universal human rights" as "ill-conceived and bankrupt sociopolitical ideologies," before cutting to the secretly recorded portion of Jorjani's conversation where he predicts "[w]e will have a Europe, in 2050, where the banknotes have Adolf Hitler, Napoleon Bonaparte, Alexander the Great. And Hitler will be seen like that: like Napoleon, like Alexander, not like some weird monster, who is unique in his own category."
The day after the Times piece was published, NJIT's President emailed all faculty and staff, denouncing Jorjani's statements as "antithetical" to NJIT's "core values." NJIT's Dean of the College of Science and Liberal Arts sent a separate email echoing those sentiments. In the following days, NJIT received some unverified number of calls and, at most, fifty emails expressing concern about Jorjani's recorded comments and his membership on the faculty. Faculty chimed in too, highlighting the content of Jorjani's "Against Perennial Philosophy" essay.
Six days after the New York Times posted the article, NJIT sent a letter to Jorjani placing him on paid leave, explaining the article 1) "caused significant disruption at the university" that NJIT believed would "continue to expand," and 2) revealed "association with organizations" that Jorjani did not disclose on his outside activity form, despite prior direction to fully update the form the preceding Spring. The letter advised Jorjani that NJIT planned to investigate whether he had violated university policies or State ethics requirements.
Fallout continued with NJIT's Department of Biology penning a statement published in the student newspaper asserting "Jorjani's beliefs, as revealed by his remarks, cannot help but produce a discriminatory and intimidating educational environment for [NJIT's] diverse student body." The Faculty Senate followed suit, releasing an "Official Faculty Senate Statement," explaining that "NJIT is a university that embraces diversity and sees that diversity as a source of strength. The NJIT Faculty Senate finds racist pronouncements made by University Lecturer Jason Reza Jorjani to be morally repugnant. Hate and bigotry have no place on the NJIT campus." The Department of History also joined the fray, demanding Jorjani's termination and asserting his "published beliefs create a hostile learning environment for students of color in particular." …
Jorjani was eventually fired, and the District Court "conclude[d] that Jorjani's speech was not protected by the First Amendment because 'Defendants' interest in mitigating the disruption caused by Plaintiff's speech … outweighs Plaintiff's interest in its expression.' Seeing error in that conclusion, we will vacate and remand."
The Court of Appeals in Jorjani articulated the legal standard for when the government may discipline or fire employees based on their speech (even if it couldn't imprison or fine ordinary citizens for their speech), pretty much the same standard as the one the District Court just applied in Hook:
"[T]o state a First Amendment retaliation claim, a public employee plaintiff must allege that his activity is protected by the First Amendment, and that the protected activity was a substantial factor in the alleged retaliatory action." If those two requirements are satisfied, the burden shifts and the employer must show "the same action would have been taken even if the speech had not occurred."
A public employee's speech is protected if 1) "the employee spoke as a citizen," 2) his "statement involved a matter of public concern," and 3) "the government employer did not have 'an adequate justification for treating the employee differently from any other member of the general public' as a result of the statement he made." In assessing the third prong, we "balance … the interests of the [employee], as a citizen, in commenting upon matters of public concern and the interest of the State, as an employer, in promoting the efficiency of the public services it performs through its employees." Pickering v. Bd. of Ed. (1968). So "the more substantially an employee's speech involves matters of public concern, the higher the state's burden will then be to justify taking action, and vice versa." …
This standard leaves considerable room for a version of the "heckler's veto," under which someone's speech may be punished because it causes a hostile reaction by offended listeners. (So does the District Court's opinion in Hook, since it prevents a "heckler's veto" only if the hecklers are heckling only slightly, and thus in a way that doesn't cause "any disruption to on-campus activities, Hook's teaching lessons, or the University's operations.")
When the government is administering the criminal law or civil liability, such a "heckler's veto" is generally not allowed: The government generally can't shut down a speaker, for instance, because his listeners are getting offended or even threatening violence because they're offended. But in the employment context, the Pickering balance often allows government to fire employees because their speech sufficiently offends coworkers or members of the public. Perhaps this stems from the judgment that employees are hired to do a particular job cost-effectively for the government, and if their speech so offends others (especially clients or coworkers) that keeping the employees on means more cost for the government than benefit, the government needn't continue to pay them for what has proved to be a bad bargain.
Still, when it comes to public university professors, especially as to their off-the-job speech, courts have often applied the Pickering balance in a way that deliberately offers more speech protection (though perhaps not the same speech protection as ordinary citizens enjoy when it comes to the criminal law). That is what the Third Circuit did in Jorjani (though the District Court didn't see the need to formally consider any possible special rule for university professors, since its holding as to lack of disruption would prevent the firing of pretty much any government employee). To illustrate the Third Circuit's reasoning, I underline the passages supporting such extra protection, and italicize the passages that seem to leave open room for some sort of heckler's veto:
NJIT's actions do not pass the ordinary Pickering analysis on this record. The parties agree that Jorjani spoke as a private citizen on a matter of public concern. So we consider only whether the distractions NJIT identified as flowing from Jorjani's speech outweigh interest in his discussion. They do not….
Begin with interest in Jorjani's speech, which cannot "be considered in a vacuum" as "the manner, time, and place of the employee's expression are relevant." Jorjani's speech occurred entirely outside NJIT's academic environs. His theories, even if lacking in classical rigor, remain of public import. It matters not that his opinions do not enjoy majoritarian support, since "the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express 'the thought that we hate.'" Matal v. Tam (2017)….
Against that interest, we weigh NJIT's need "as an employer" to promote "the efficiency of the public services it performs." NJIT points only to the "disruption" that followed the publication of Jorjani's remarks consisting of certain students' disapproval of Jorjani's speech, disagreement among faculty, and administrators fielding complaints. We "typically consider whether the speech impairs discipline or employee harmony, has a detrimental impact on close working relationships requiring personal loyalty and confidence, impedes the performance of the speaker's duties, or interferes with the enterprise's regular operations." And we focus mostly on what happened, not what might have been, because although NJIT can act to prevent future harms, and need not "allow events to unfold to the extent that the disruption of the office and the destruction of working relationships is manifest," it must ground predictions in reason, not speculation. The minimal evidence of disruption that NJIT cites differs little from the ordinary operation of a public university and therefore cannot outweigh interest in Jorjani's speech.
First, there is no support for NJIT's contention that student disapproval of Jorjani's speech disrupted the administration of the university. Some students and alumni disagreed with Jorjani's views. But NJIT never identified the exact number of calls or complaints made in person or writing, nor any details about the students' concerns. And although Jorjani said that he perceived a "huge change in attitude toward [him] on the part of [his] students," NJIT points to no objective evidence that students questioned Jorjani's ability to teach, grade, or supervise his classes evenly, beyond one administrator recalling a student dropped Jorjani's class. Entirely absent is any evidence of specific student protests, upheaval, or unwillingness to abide by university policies. But "in the context of the college classroom," students have an "interest in hearing even contrarian views." Meriwether v. Hartop (6th Cir. 2021); see also Blum v. Schlegel (2d Cir. 1994) (explaining that "the efficient provision of services" by a university "actually depends, to a degree, on the dissemination in public fora of controversial speech"). NJIT's theory that student dissent rose to the level of disruption is simply speculative.
Second, the cited disputes among Jorjani and his colleagues are not disruption. NJIT cites the pointed letters denouncing Jorjani published by faculty in the pages of the student newspaper, but that is precisely the sort of reasoned debate that distinguishes speech from distraction. And there is no allegation these editorials, or Jorjani's belief they were defamatory and warranted suit, interfered with the ability of other faculty to fulfill their responsibilities in research, teaching, or shared governance, or otherwise thwarted the university's efforts to educate its students. So although challenges to "employee harmony" might pose disruption when disagreements disturb "close working relationships," that concern is irrelevant inside the university where professors serve the needs of their students, not fellow academics. {Bauer v. Sampson (9th Cir. 2001) ("[G]iven the nature of academic life, especially at the college level, it was not necessary that Bauer and the administration enjoy a close working relationship requiring trust and respect—indeed anyone who has spent time on college campuses knows that the vigorous exchange of ideas and resulting tension between an administration and its faculty is as much a part of college life as homecoming and final exams.").}
That leaves only NJIT's ordinary obligation to field calls and emails, routine administrative tasks that, conceivably, might become so overwhelming in number or nature as to disrupt. But not here. The record reveals that throughout this occurrence there were "[p]ossibly" fifty emails received about Jorjani. Calls were so few that NJIT's witness was "not sure what the number is," and only knew "by reading some emails that so-and-so called the mother, and so-and-so called, former student called, things of that nature." All a most minor uptick in communications, if at all, and one that required no additional staffing to support the single administrator who handled these inquiries.
While NJIT raises an "interest in providing a non-denigrating environment," and appeals to the notion that Jorjani's views could, theoretically, undermine the pedagogical relationship between a teacher and student, it has not pointed to anything in the record that indicates its determination was based on competence or qualifications. In essence, NJIT posits that because Jorjani offered views it disliked, the First Amendment should not apply, and it is entitled to summary judgment. We cannot agree, lest we permit "universities to discipline professors, students, and staff any time their speech might cause offense." {And this case does not implicate a university's "discretionary academic determinations" that entail the "review of [ ] intellectual work product" or "the qualifications of faculty members for promotion and tenure."}
Back in the South Dakota case, James D. Leach represents Hook.
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Pretty quick with the injunction. Does it matter if state law provides a meaningful appeal process?
Vulgar words lack enough substance to have meaning and therefore do not convey ideas or thoughts the public will find useful. Sure, there's free speech, but make it worthwhile, please.
At least the above person removed his initial post and regretted those words.
The Pickering balancing test is hopelessly vague and results oriented. I think these matters should be resolved by the idea that in this context the government is not acting as a sovereign but as an employer.
This professor has not been fined, jailed, or otherwise criminally punished for his speech. Any employer has an interest in his employees acting responsibly and in this position promoting meaningful discourse and serving as an example to students on how to act appropriately.
Screeching "Nazi!" does not comport with that. How many conservative students in his class, some of whom liked Charlie Kirk, would fear that they were unable to express themselves in class or feel as if the professor wouldn't care if they were killed?
That being said, I don't know that I would have made the same employment decision, especially given that he retracted his statement rather quickly. But I think that South Dakota should be able to manage its employees without a veto by the federal courts.
I don't think we're really looking for sober common sense and a shrewd understanding of history from art teachers. Which is not to say that art teachers are incapable of being sensible - just that it's hardly required.
Cut him some slack. He doesn't need to know what a Nazi is. Let's hope he knows something about art.
None. That doesn't even make sense. "I'm afraid that if I speak up my professors won't care if I'm killed?" Why would a dead person care if professors cared? At least make the hypothetical somewhat plausible, with students worrying about retaliation by the professor.
You don't think that if a professor doesn't care if a student is killed, he also might not care if the student receives an unfair grade?
Screeching "Nazi!" does not comport with that. How many conservative students in his class, some of whom liked Charlie Kirk, would fear that they were unable to express themselves in class or feel as if the professor wouldn't care if they were killed?
Heckler's veto again...
And it becomes clear that a fundamental pillar of the modern GOP is absolute hostility to the first amendment. But only for speech they disagree with.
Why anyone who professes to be a libertarian is going along with this is a mystery.
Perhaps you didn't read the second case in Prof. Volokh's post.
GOPers haven't been doing great on free speech the last few weeks, but I'm not sure that immediate reaction to the assassination of someone apparently for being a free speech proponent and practitioner represents "a fundamental pillar" of their party. One might still recognize more of a systemic First Amendment problem within the other major party which still has many leaders who cheered proxy censorship through social media corporations, and sometimes even equate words with violence.
I think that South Dakota should be able to manage its employees without a veto by the federal courts.
That's a rather broad statement, WVA. This ruling is not a generalized ban on SD managing its employees. We are talking specifically about firing a tenured faculty member for a personal post, simply because some idiot MAGA politicians didn't like what he said.
No doubt we will soon hear defenses of that action by the usual suspects here.
In my view, this isn't about MAGA. If someone on the left had died and the professor made a comment of this type, I would support a university's right to fire him.
The problem is not the political context but the manner and style of reacting with glee or disdain when someone is murdered for their speech. That shows a tremendous lack of professionalism on the part of the professor.
If someone on the left had died and the professor made a comment of this type, I would support a university's right to fire him.
Sure you would.
And what do you mean by "glee or disdain"? All he did was call Charlie Kirk a Nazi, which seems fair enough, and wonder why his violent death is so much of a bigger story than all the other violent deaths in the US every day. The fact that you don't like it if Kirk (or, by extension, you) is called a Nazi speaks for you, because it reflects an understanding that being a Nazi is bad, but that doesn't make the reference any more inaccurate.
To claim that epithet is "fair enough" and imply its accuracy might reflect on your ignorance in accepting received mischaracterizations, or dishonesty in taking words out of context. No fair interpretation of CK's statements supports the characterization. I hope that I would be more charitable in trying to interpret the words and intentions of others.
In what way is Charlie Kirk a Nazi?
Let's see... he's a white supremacist, anti-gay, antisemitic, anti-feminist nationalist. He sure checks a lot of the Nazi boxes.
Churchill checks all of those boxes except the anti-Semitic one - though white supremacist would be a lazy sloganizing summary of his views on race. Churchill is an unconvincing Nazi don’t you think ?
Kirk was not anti-Semitic either, you probably missed the NYT’s belated correction of its hit piece on that score. Moreover at the time the Nazis were about, anti-semitism was as common everywhere as it is now in the Middle East, or on college campuses. Mere anti-semitism was hardly a Nazi standout. That was more the extermination thing.
As for anti-feminism, you’d have to look pretty hard to find a pro feminist government anywhere in the 1930s or 1940s, ditto gay.
The Fuhrer himself was hardly a “white supremacist” since he regarded the very white Slavs as Untermenschen.
You also missed out some other key Nazi features. Including loathing of Christianity, and loathing of capitalism and the profit motive. Not unique to Nazism of course but that is true of all the traits you mentioned too. Also the dictatorship thing.
In short you’re just sloganizing, lazily.
If someone on the left had died and the professor made a comment of this type, I would support a university's right to fire him.
Don't make me laugh! Oh, but you did. You guys have been bawling about cancel culture for too long now to be able to say stuff like this with a straight face.
I don't think it is appropriate to fire a tenured professor because he makes a comment that some deem "unprofessional."
That's a rather subjective determination, so it pretty much means that he can be fired for any non-anodyne comment. And since there will always be some idiot legislator who is offended it means that any liberal professor is at risk of being fired for speaking his mind.
I seem to recall a discussion a week or so ago about a physical education teacher being disciplined for calling BS on an implicit bias / mind your privilege struggle session.
“Unprofessional” was much bandied about. I agree that “unprofessional” is rather vague, and liable to abuse in hostile hands. But I think it is a real concept. The problem is taking the vast expanse of discretion out of it.
FWIW I think both this case and the PE teacher’s case are equally abuse of discretion.
The big question is why any self respecting institution would have granted this idiot tenure in the first place. If he represents faculty standards, I recommend students find a new school. Or better yet, just leave and learn a trade.
Seems protected by the first amendment, the state should not be able to fire him. Nothing is stopping the governor from sharing his home address and picture. Fight speech with speech.
Nothing is stopping the governor from sharing his home address and picture.
Are you sure about that? Even the US has some legal protection against doxing, and an employer doxing their employee must raise all sorts of legal issues.
Just like the prof, do it on his own time with a persnal account. Any doxing law that prohibits sharing addresses and pictures is probably quite vunerable to a first amendment challenge as well.
Overturning on appeal is insufficient. Suspend (aka Pauline Newman-ize). Impeach.
Pickering might give enough of a fig leaf to save the state, but the state/university should not fire somebody over that single, quickly deleted, twit. The prof realized he crossed a line and owned up to it. It should have been a learning experience for everyone that social media is mistake-prone and that people should be graceful about mistakes -- both their own and others'. Now it's a lawsuit, that the state should probably lose, over a dumb personnel decision.
The prof realized he crossed a line and owned up to it.
Well, the professor realised he was in South Dakota and that that tweet would get him yelled at IRL. I don't know that that's the same thing.
But we're talking about people that will use a deleted tweet from 10 years ago to get you fired today, so why should they be offered more grace than they will give?
An underlying flaw in cases like this, perhaps supported by faulty precedent, is the conclusion (almost an assumption) that these comments were on a "matter of public concern". I do not believe that the celebration of an assassination should qualify.
One particular bad precedent I had in mind was Rankin v. McPherson, 483 U.S. 378 (1987). In that case, the Court overturned the dismissal of a constable who said, after the attempted assassination of President Reagan, "If they go for him again, I hope they get him." It was a 5-4 decision along roughly ideological lines. Justice Marshall, joined by Brennan, Blackmun, Powell, and Stevens, wrote the majority opinion. Justice Scalia, joined by Rehnquist, White, and O'Connor, wrote the dissent. Powell wrote a separate concurrence.
The fired constable was a young black woman. To bring the comment, "If they go for him again, I hope they get him," into the realm of "public concern", the Court suggested it was a criticism of Reagan's policies. Justice Scalia seemed to find this risible.
Id. at 398 (Scalia, J., dissenting) (citation omitted)
In sum, I believe the definition of "speech on a matter of public concern" should be severely circumscribed and not be merely synonymous with "speech touching on something in the news".
I would also note, relevant to discussions from yesterday, that the judge purports to order the reinstatement of the professor, something I believe he has no authority to do. Even if he was wrongfully discharged, his only remedy would be monetary damages. See, e.g., Baker v. Carr, 369 U.S. 186, 231 (1962) (decisions that “held that federal equity power could not be exercised to enjoin a state proceeding to remove a public officer” or that “withheld federal equity from staying removal of a federal officer” reflect “a traditional limit upon equity jurisdiction”); Walton v. House of Representatives, 265 U.S. 487, 490 (1924) (“A court of equity has no jurisdiction over the appointment and removal of public officers.”); Harkrader v. Wadley, 172 U.S. 148, 165 (1898) (“[T]o sustain a bill in equity to restrain... the removal of public officers is to invade the domain of the courts of common law, or of the executive and administrative department of the government.”); White v. Berry, 171 U.S. 366, 377 (1898) (“[A] court of equity will not, by injunction, restrain an executive officer from making a wrongful removal of a subordinate appointee, nor restrain the appointment of another.”); In re Sawyer, 124 U.S. 200, 212 (1888) ("It is equally well settled that a court of equity has no jurisdiction over the appointment and removal of public officers.")
An underlying flaw in cases like this, perhaps supported by faulty precedent, is the conclusion (almost an assumption) that these comments were on a "matter of public concern". I do not believe that the celebration of an assassination should qualify.
Of course you don't. Fortunately under US law it doesn't matter.
Agreed. It is as if because there was an assassination attempt against Reagan that gives a person license to make the statements at issue.
Had there been no assassination attempt and the same death wishes were made, then the comments are no longer on a matter of public concern.
So the lesson for government employees is that if something bad happens to your political enemies, then don't miss the opportunity: get your fill of the most terrible things you can think of to say about it because you have a limited immunity.
...you know better.
Charlie Kirk was a public figure before he was killed. Are you seriously arguing otherwise? And his killing is most certainly a matter of public concern.
I think that there are norms regarding holding your tongue after someone dies. But that's all they are- norms. You might view Charlie Kirk as a saint- but he also hurt (yes, HURT) a lot of people. That's something you might not want to hear, but it's true.
I'm going to key on this-
"So the lesson for government employees is that if something bad happens to your political enemies, then don't miss the opportunity: get your fill of the most terrible things you can think of to say about it because you have a limited immunity."
What? Really? If you're a government employee, you should be able to (in a private capacity) talk about your "political enemies" (public figures, matters of public concern) all you want without fear of the government acting against you. That's ... the whole deal. It's part and parcel of the American experience. It's not a question of getting a pass- it's the exercise of free speech rights.
I will repeat the same point that I keep making- if you only invoke the FA to protect the speech you like, and then manage to always find exceptions to punish the speech you don't like- you are no friend to the FA. You're just another tool for authoritarianism.
Show us on the doll where Charlie Kirk "hurt (yes, HURT)" you.
I'm serious here. What did Charlie Kirk do that was less constitutionally protected than this professor's twit? Weren't the comments about Kirk's friends and family also hurtful by your logic?
"I think that there are norms regarding holding your tongue after someone dies. But that's all they are- norms. You might view Charlie Kirk as a saint- but he also hurt (yes, HURT) a lot of people. That's something you might not want to hear, but it's true."
Can you give specific examples of Charlie Kirk HURTing anyone?
Or do you mean he just HURT their feelings?
Racism is per se hateful, harmful and hurtful. Kirk gave voice to racism, regretting passage of the Civil Rights Acts of '64 and '65, which countered Jim Crow laws and guaranteed the vote to those who had long been denied it on the basis of race; he said seeing a plane's pilot was an AA pilot made him feel insecure; he attacked AA women specifically Joy Reed, Justice Ketanji Jackson, and Michele Obama, as intellectually inferior; etc. That was reprehensible before he was assassinated, and it remained so after he was assassinated, his killing having done nothing to purge that ugliness.
You gave voice to terminal stupidity, by conflating opposition to particular laws with racism. Also by conflating opposition to particular laws with hurting anyone.
"You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously."
It doesn't get much more racist than that.
Sure it does. Hiring incompetent fools just because of their skin color is one example. Being Randal is another.
So you see a principled basis for lamenting the Civil Rights Act; for the disparagement of those AA women, including the former First Lady and a SCT Justice?: for slandering AA professionals as of uncertain competence? Any possibility that you Michael P are yourself a racist?
I do not believe that the celebration of an assassination should qualify.
But nowhere in what he posted did he celebrate the assassination. Failure to mourn, and describing the victim as a Nazi, is not celebrating.
That is beside the point. If someone had said, after the assassination, of Martin Luther King, Jr., "I don't care that he's dead. He was a communist who agitated race relations," I would argue that was a fireable offense, unprotected by the First Amendment. If the crux of a statement is, "I don't care that [x] is dead," with or without appended reasons, then that will not, in my opinion, ever rise to the level of "a matter of public concern", regardless of who the individual was.
The professor (or other public employee) in such a case might have other protections against being fired, be they statutory or contractual, but the First Amendment is not one of them.
1: South Dakota has a University with an Art Department?
2: Why?
3: I've been to South Dakota, I know South Dakota, South Dakota was a friend of mine, You Suh, are no South Dakota!!!!
4: Except for the Black Hills, South Dakota is about as beautiful as Newark NJ, when we moved there from Omaha, for miles we saw the signs "500 miles to Wall Drug!" "350 miles to Wall Drug!!" "50 miles to Wall Drug!!"
then we get there and it's a Drug Store.
At least "South of the Border" has Pedro, and an Observation Tower (With a Sombrero on top) you can go up in
OK, I guess now it's been made into sort of a "Cowboy" theme park, I haven't been there since 1974
Frank
This highlights the problem with public-private institutions. Because the institution is "public", courts believe they can second-guess hiring and firing decisions which are obviously subjective (and which the judge is himself entirely unqualified to make in any event). But because the institution is also "private", any employee who is fired can make a First Amendment claim which the court is bound to take up.
The result is a case that is neither fish nor fowl. You can't "win" such a case because there's no limiting principle, the decision comes down to the person who is acting as the judge. If the judge is friendly to you, all hail; and if not, automatic appeal.
I used to be a fan of public-private partnerships, but no longer. Such institutions are just too easy to be corrupted and co-opted. One of the great benefits of having to raise your own sustenance is it forces you to stay in your lane to survive. You literally don't have time to wander into someone else's garden patch to steal their potatoes.
It's not a matter of being "part public, part private." The institution is entirely public. That makes it a government actor for the purposes of the Constitution. More specifically, for around 60 years, the Supreme Court has been clear that public employees cannot be required to waive their Constitutional rights as a condition of employment.
But here's where the "neither fish nor fowl" part comes in. The constitutional rights that public employees have vis-a-vis their employers are more limited than the rights that citizens generally have against the government. That's because the government has rights/legit interests as an employer that go beyond their rights/interests to govern the populace generally. So, as a citizen, I could stand outside a post office and say, to passers-by, "the post office sucks! Don't use it." And (assuming I'm behaving peacefully and not actually blocking people going in and out) the government could not prosecute me for saying that. But if I'm a post office employee doing exactly the same thing, the post office / government as employer could likely fire me without violating the First Amendment.
Now, this concept of limited Constitutional rights of public employees has caused the Supreme Court to create various "balancing tests," as Con law often does. Such tests don't always lead to clear answers, and folks can debate what the outcome should be based on particular facts. Here, given that Rankin is still controlling precedent, I think the court got it right. But in any case, this isn't a matter of mixed public-private partnerships.
What? First, this institution is public, full stop. Not public-private. Second, the second half of your claim is entirely wrong; the guy can make a 1A claim only because it's public, not because it's "private."
One reason we shouldn't want to chill the speech of professors (or anyone else) is that displays of ignorance, bad faith, bad judgment, and bad manners are instructive. Leaders should also be more courageous in differentiating the personal sphere from official duties and representation.
I don't see any mention of Hook's tenure. Did that set a higher bar to overcome before he could be fired on account of his outside, non-job-related speech?
Suppose Hook was a physics professor rather than an art history one, so what he said on his FB would he clearly outside the subject matter he taught. Would that make a difference?
Suppose Hook wasn't teaching faculty, but rather a groundskeeper? Would that make a difference, or is every employee of the school subject to the same limitations on their private speech?
Side note, Kirk was a moderate mainstream conservative Christian.
So the conservative Christian mainstream is now Nazi-adjacent? That's a bad sign.
2 Weeks, and the (redacted) who murdered Charlie Kirk is still alive.
Why?
I'm really disappointed in the Utah Prison System.
Frank