The Volokh Conspiracy
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Grand Jury Nullification in the District of Columbia?
Grand jurors in the District of Columbia thrice refuse to indict a defendant for felony assault of a federal officer. And it happened again and again.
Last week, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia sought to indict Sydney Reid on felony charges of assaulting an FBI agent, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 111.
Here are some of the allegations in the criminal complaint:
4.ERO Officer Vincent Liang gave instructions to REID to step back and allow them to complete the transfer of the two suspects. REID continued to move closer to the officers and continued to record the arrest. Officer Laing reiterated to REID that she could not get any closer. REID got in Officer Laing's face, and he could smell alcohol coming off REID's breath. After multiple commands to step back, REID tried to go around Officer Laing by going up the side steps and attempted to get in between the FBI Agents and the second suspect being transferred into their custody.
5.As REID was trying to get behind Officer Lang and impede the transfer of the second suspect by inserting herself between the second suspect and the agents, Officer Lang pushed REID against the wall and told her to stop. REID continued to struggle and fight with Officer Lang. Agent Bates came to Office Lang's assistance in trying to control REID. REID was flailing her arms and kicking and had to be pinned against a cement wall.
6.During the struggle, REID forcefully pushed Agent Bates's hand against the cement wall. This caused lacerations on the back side of Agent Bates's left hand as depicted below.
A federal magistrate found that there was probable cause to support the charge. Yet, on three occasions, a grand jury in the District of Columbia declined to indict. Instead, the U.S. Attorney filed an information for a misdemeanor violation of Section 111. A writer at MSNBC suggests that the grand jury's refusal to indict may be due to a weak cases being brought by the U.S. Attorney.
Since the failed indictment for Reid, there have been two more grand juries that failed to return a true bill.
It is possible that these juries are carefully attuned to the gradation between felonies and misdemeanors. May I suggest another possibility? Federal grand juries in the District of Columbia, made up (almost) entirely of critics of President Trump, are engaging in nullification of the Trump Administration's law federal enforcement efforts. I imagine this sort of active resistance will increase as more federal officers are fanned throughout the District of Columbia. The Capital likely seems something like this to D.C. residents:
Historically, at least, the concept of jury nullification was viewed as a popular check against tyrannical governments. I imagine an average D.C. resident who can take time off from work to serve extended periods of federal grand jury duty may see himself in that fashion.
During the Jack Smith saga, Trump argued that he could not possibly get a fair jury pool in the District of Columbia. I wonder if the same is true for cases brought by the Trump Administration?
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Josh is out here lighting a candle for the poor, abused federal law enforcement apparatus.
Who deserve our respect more than some woman beating addict, Floyd George, or that POS Michael Brown in Ferguson, or Barry Husseins boy Tray-von, Biggy Smalls or 2-pack
Frank
There are so many pick me boys and girls out there who figure that if they just MAGA hard enough, they can get a federal judicial appointment or a promotion in the federal judiciary. Josh isn’t doing anything that Emil Bove, James Ho or Aileen Cannon aren’t doing. I wonder though if this blog has enough reach to get him what he’s after.
Prosecutors who overcharge ridiculously in an effort to curry favor with Trump are unlikely to convince jurors that assault with a deli weapon is an aggravated felony. That’s not jury nullification, it’s being over ambitious in order to please the White House and getting righteously slapped down when the jury finds you don’t have probable cause.
Unfortunately for Josh, he’s not in a position to actually hurt people.
This will impede his chances.
Maybe he can beat up some minorities in his classroom.
I do wonder how minorities do in his class. The Penn professor comes to mind.
Gangstapumpkin fails to realize that this is how you have people dying in police custody.
It is possible that these juries are carefully attuned to the gradation between felonies and misdemeanors. May I suggest another possibility? Federal grand juries in the District of Columbia, made up (almost) entirely of critics of President Trump, are engaging in nullification of the Trump Administration's law federal enforcement efforts.
Say it loud and proud. Isn't that the purpose of jury nullification? Thwarting an asshole government on charges, in spite of everything else?
That the jury system is about more than proving crimes to simpletons? That removing decision of guilt from government, so it isn't prosecuting and deciding guilt at the same time, is more than just a theoretical proper process but rises to practical purpose from time to time?
Then why does the left argue in favor of minutiae and technicalities in order to prosecute and convict Trump, his associates, and J6 rioters over the preceding 8 years?
Grandmas got jail time for just walking around on J6. I can guess there was a practical purpose for that: DC is Democrat territory, and Republicans are not welcome there.
What part of ignoring a subpoena, stealing government documents, conspiring to overturn an election, or breaking into a government building seems like "minutiae and technicalities" to you?
John Adams said, "Facts are stubborn things."
The MAGATs seem to prefer Ronald Reagan's twist: "Facts are stupid things." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHeNMLeahTk
bobsnort presents items not true or not found in a legal setting. Thus, they are not facts, but rather distortions and false claims. That's false as in never proven in a legal setting. I present facts, not you nor bobsnort.
And the fact is that your pounding the table about "Rule of Law" was just another lie.
What you actually meant to say was "Rule of Democrats."
What part of Dems twisting statutes to go after political enemies is so difficult for you to understand?
Ya'll trumpeted a crocked up interpretation of 1512 that got tossed by SCOTUS and a half-billion dollar fine that just got tossed on appeal. You got there by idiot lawyers relying on hypertechnical reads of the statutes that was focused on achieving a political outcome.
All of you noble, anti-tyranny patriots sure are ready to lube up your assholes and bend over for Uncle Sam when it comes to innocent shlubs simply walking into a government building or septuagenarians peacefully praying outside an abortion clinic.
“innocent shlubs simply walking into a government building”
Jimmy the Dane- is that you?
Are you really tying to rehabilitate the thug Smith and his lawfare? Ah, democrat "principles," what are they again? Do they actually exist or is that just another myth, like the J6 "insurrection"?
I can't speak for the left, but the sane center has not argued in favor of minutiae and technicalities in order to prosecute and convict Trump, his associates, and J6 rioters over the preceding 8 years. Instead, we've argued that his/their crimes was major and serious. To be sure, some of Trump's crimes were just things like private fraud, but others went to the heart of liberal democracy.
No grandmas — I am not clear why one's children having reproduced has any bearing on one's crimes or punishments — got jail time for just walking around on J6.
There were, to be sure, more and less serious crimes committed by J6ers. There were people in the first ranks of the mob who smashed windows, attacked cops, etc., and people in the second ranks who didn't come into direct contact with the cops and instead just provided mass to the mob. That second group — who fascist apologists have laughably dubbed "tourists" — were correctly prosecuted but generally did not actually get jail time.
Cindy Young was sentenced to 4 months of jail. Government wanted 10 months + 1 year of supervised release.
She walked around the rotunda. Didn't break anything. Didn't hurt anyone. Didn't steal anything.
'Sane' isn't the word I'd use to describe you. 'Rabid' is more accurate.
Have you fantasized new ways for Trump to die recently? Any new insights you'd care to share with the rest of the class?
Given your past callous comments here, I didn't think you had the capacity to be even worse than you have been. Yet you've surprised us today. You've dug just a bit deeper while highlighting just how heartless and spiteful you could be.
She walked around the rotunda.
Looks like she wasn't just in the rotunda.
https://www.justice.gov/d9/signed_cindy_young_statement_of_facts_002_redacted_0.pdf
YOUNG was again interviewed on February 11, 2022. Young admitted to going onto the Capitol grounds where “things got crazy.” YOUNG again admitted to going inside the Capitol Building and herself in Image 8 saying “That is me standing near the hearing doors!”.
The hearing doors in question were reached by the pro-Trump crowd after bashing through doors and windows. She didn't just walk in and act like a tourist taking selfies. (Although she did do that as well.) She was part of a crowd where at least some people were chanting "break it down", referring to the doors that members of Congress had, at one point, barricaded themselves behind.
"Given your past callous comments here, I didn't think you had the capacity to be even worse than you have been. Yet you've surprised us today. You've dug just a bit deeper while highlighting just how heartless and spiteful you could be."
DMN is an attorney. You are not.
Your whining and crying about decisions you can't completely understand is just noise.
Correct, but irrelevant. DMN doesn't practice criminal law, much less Federal criminal law in DC. We both have that in common. If I need advice on corporate law in NY State, he's probably going to be knowledgeable.
For the goings-on for the DC criminal justice system I rely on actual experts.
The decisions by the Biden Admin, DC judges, and DC juries are plain as day: they didn't just throw the book at the J6 rioters. They sought to bury them for the temerity for challenging a Democrat-won election.
If you disagree, perhaps you can explain why the Biden admin brought misdemeanor cases into District Court instead of DC Superior Court for other similarly situated non-J6 defendants who disrupted Congressional proceedings?
I ask this because you're clearly indicating some knowledge in the charging decisions made by the Biden DOJ.
Please inform me. Why would a chip bag be felony assault while a sandwich-to-the-face is not?
Who told you that a chip bag was felony assault? Because if you're relying on a cryptic comment from Shipley, that's not what it says. (Also, for the record, the sandwich was not "to the face.")
If you come to me and ask for a felony indictment for violent interference with law enforcement, you had better bring better evidence than a picture of the kind of minor lacerations I accidentally self-inflict from time to time while gardening.
Blackman, if Trump's military intimidation in blue cities needs grand jury cooperation to keep it going, I hope failed indictments become commonplace.
Also, on what basis does a lawyer assert that a federal grand jury's decision not to indict examples, "jury nullification." I thought that term and practice belonged to criminal proceedings featuring petit juries.
Federal grand juries are not even part of the justice system. They are tribunes of the jointly sovereign people. In that capacity, they enjoy complete independence of decision. There is no power over them which a grand jury need even attempt to nullify.
As always, you have a weird sovcit view of grand juries. Grand jurors are random individuals, they also take an oath, and it's not "to do whatever I feel like." Refusing to indict someone for improper reasons is indeed jury nullification and a violation of their oath.
(Of course, Blackman is full of shit here, because the far more obvious explanation is that the jurors concluded that these charges didn't fit the alleged crimes. Throwing a sandwich at someone isn't a felony.)
Nieporent — What government power constrains a federal grand jury? If a grand jury decides this way or that way, which government authority has power to set either result aside? You apparently do not understand that the federal grand jury is there to be the final judge of whether a requested indictment has been brought for a proper reason. It a federal grand jury decides not to indict, it is not for anyone else to decide otherwise.
The same is true if a petit jury votes not to convict, but that doesn't have anything to do with your weird sovcit theories. (The difference is that the prosecutor can keep asking a grand jury to indict, whereas double jeopardy prohibits that with petit juries.)
A federal judge has the power to set aside an indictment.
I mean, you ain't wrong.
I have no problem with this person being arrested and charged, but the actual injury barely qualifies - I wouldn't even bother to report that at work - and doesn't justify trying three separate times.
It’s the District of Colored People, what do you expect?
Josh, this is the only person who finds your theory plausible.
Truth doesn’t depend on popularity
Frank: Do you have the courage to let your friends and family know what a dreadful human being you are, or do you spread your filth only on the internet, where you won't have to personally face the disgust everyone feels for you?
Friends & Family? They kid me for being so “Woke”
Frank
Sounds as if the juries are doing what the FFs intended.
I guess the memo went out to Democrats:
The rule of law in DC is now on hold if you're on Team Blue and your offense was against Team Red.
If Trump said that 1+1 = 3, his cultists would say that everyone who corrected him had received a memo from the Democrats.
The idea that people might independently come up with a point seems alien to the cultists - because that's not how you work, so you assume the same of others.
The alleged offences were over-charged, and that is what the grand juries opposed.
https://x.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/1960762628080590924
If Trump said 2+2 = 4, you and your ilk would say that his conclusion is racially motivated obstruction of justice that also violates business records laws.
Yeah, not actually addressing my points
Sure. Shipley's lying by omission. Note that he doesn't say what the person was charged with, nor that this was the sole thing the person had done. (Obviously not; the person was part of the mob storming the Capitol.)
You're johnny-come-lately to the whole 'lying by omission' party.
Where were your principles when the FBI was lying by omission to the FISC?
Except that's not how the statute was written. The other conduct charged should not matter if the text of the statute doesn't have an aggravated factors clause.
What statute? Shipley didn't cite any statute. All he said was that his client was charged with throwing a potato chip bag.
If you're driving and I throw a potato chip bag — or a Kleenex® for that matter — at your face in a way to distract you so that you crash your car and die, I can be charged with some form of manslaughter. Without knowing the full context his statement is meaningless.
"Except that's not how the statute was written. The other conduct charged should not matter if the text of the statute doesn't have an aggravated factors clause."
You were kvetching about sentencing, tylertusta. The federal sentencing guidelines are advisory now, but relevant conduct (including uncharged misconduct) still means a whale of a lot for sentencing purposes.
As Johnny Cash sang, I don't like it but I guess things happen that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpImlSRSTBQ&list=RDhpImlSRSTBQ&start_radio=1
Ba doo ba doo.
You're kvetching about sentencing guideline, Mr. Guulty. The guidelines have absolutely nothing to do with whether a crime is charged as a felony or a misdemeanor.
Nor does it have anything to do with whether a grand jury indicts a felony.
As the man said, it's not that our liberal friends knows so much that just ain't so.
It's always been that way.
If you are useful to the Democrats you get a pass - until you no longer are.
When I made my original post above, wondering aloud what's the problem, isn't this jury nullification working as intended, I hesitated. Jury nullification has historical examples use by various factions through history, including letting alcohol producers and sellers off the hook during probation, but also letting lynchers off the hook.
So Team ABC, for various definions of ABC, use the power. What's good for the goose is good for the thrower of a sandwich. We just went through 8 years of people faceting and hyperbolating crimes to get the hated opposition.
And you are shocked, shocked, they do it to you in return? That's my whole central thesis on situational ethics!
Felony assault? Get serious. Instead of biased grand juries maybe we have runaway prosecutors so eager to please Trump they lose sight of their obligations.
Since the failed indictment for Reid, there have been two more grand juries that failed to return a true bill.
One of these was for throwing a sandwich. Good for the grand jury. The case was an absurdity.
Josh seems to imagine that the grand jury is obligated to indict any time the prosecutor asks them to. I'm not a lawyer, or a law professor, or a "national thought leader," (can anyone type that about Josh without laughing out loud?) but I do know that's ridiculous, and that part of the purpose, too often neglected, is to prevent prosecutorial overreach.
Of course Josh thinks that's impossible when someone who doesn't like Trump is involved.
What a giant ass-kisser.
https://x.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/1960762628080590924
Find us a record of a J6 prosecution based on nothing but throwing a bag of potato chips.
I didn't see the part in the law where throwing a potato chip bag was felony assault but a thrown sandwich was not.
Could you point it out to me?
No, no - I was asking for evidence that the claim you posted was true.
And you know exactly the reason for that. They were over-charged with "obstruction of an official proceeding", which allowed corrupt prosecutors to threaten non-violent people with extremely long prison sentences to coerce them into pleading out.
Never happened. Non-violent people who were present but didn't do anything else were charged with and convicted of misdemeanors and got no jail time.
Cindy Young would disagree with that statement.
We agree on something. No way were these felonies. That is gross overcharging. They are better classified as misdemeanor, pick up trash alongside the highway on the weekend crimes. Our side is going too far in charging both of these incidents as felony crimes.
I agree. The problem here is that the other side charged similar acts as felonies without even batting an eyelash.
I’m not sure he’s an ass kisser. I think he’s just a disingenuous asshole in the vein of Stephen Miller who plays at stupid lawsuits and arguments. I’m not convinced he’s as mean and cruel as Miller yet, but I think he’s spiraling in that direction.
This is such spurious, cranky logic. DC is too biased against this government and that's why it probably cannot produce a Grand Jury pool that agrees with it - the argument goes. So what? As you yourself provide the answer: "the concept of jury nullification was viewed as a popular check against tyrannical governments." I'd say it IS STILL VIEWED by the denizens of DC as a popular check against this tyrannical government. And unlike legislatures, the justice department cannot gerrymander itself out of DC when it purports to control their police. Popular sovereignty is a thing Mr. Blackman. Sorry this causes you such worry.
You realize that DC does not have "sovereignty" in the same way other American cities do, right?
You can decide whether or not this is on-topic, but I noticed that the officer's name is spelled three different ways: Liang (Chinese), Laing (Scottish), and Lang (German). One of those three is the least common spelling, and is also my last name. People are always getting it wrong.
“It is possible that these juries are carefully attuned to the gradation between felonies and misdemeanors.“ Josh, grand juries sit for lengthy terms, usually around a year. They likely have more criminal law experience than you do. It’s not fantastical to think that a jury, when instructed on the elements of a crime, manages to know the elements of a crime.
I’m probably the only Physician here, but puncture wounds on the Dorsum (Latin for “back”) of the hand are no joke, Infections can spread rapidly between the fascial planes with resulting disability, too bad the cops national guard can’t just beat the shit out of these (redacteds), nobody remembers, but the “Silent Majority” was on the Soldiers side at Kent State
Frank
> Infections can spread rapidly between the fascial planes
Too bad the DC police can't afford iodine. This tragedy could have been averted.
Too bad Floyd George couldn’t afford Narcan
Once again, Mr Blackman has shown himself to be an avid bootlicker and sad hack of the highest order. I am sorry to tell you, though, that you're going to need to broadcast your fealty with a much bigger platform if you hope to get appointed judge in the next three years. No one in Trump's orbit reads your little blog.
Josh is craven and subservient enough to get a job in the Trump administration, but I've seen videos of him speaking and he just doesn't have the pizzazz.
“need to broadcast your fealty with a much bigger platform”
I disagree. Josh has amply demonstrated his MAGA bona fides. Plus I’m certain Alito and Thomas are aware of the yeoman’s work Josh has put in around here in re: the Crow affair and defending Martha Ann (she’s spittin mad!).
Not to be too catty but I think Josh’s hopes for advancement in MAGAworld may be hindered by something else entirely. This is a regime that has given birth to the phenomenon of “mar-a-lago face” and has as its leader a man who appears overly fixated on appearance and who looks as if they are from “central casting.”
Meanwhile if I were to identify a celebrity lookalike for Josh I think I’d have to go with the pigeon lady from Home Alone 2. Josh is never getting his promotion in magaworld without a makeover. I suggest starting with a trip to Supercuts, some Botox and and ditching the ill fitting suits…
...or a chubby Weird Al Yankovitch?
I'm opposed to any and all juries, but what happened to juries being a voice of the people, speaking common sense to evil prosecutors? Or is that only when juries say things that Josh agrees with?
Jury nullification is like democracy: It's not a guarantee of good results, it's a way to rule out a particular class of bad results. While maybe getting a different, and hopefully milder, class of bad results.
I wasn't on the jury, and, yeah, maybe this was a really weak case. Or maybe it's just that the jury pool consists of 92% Democratic voters, and assaulting police enforcing laws Democrats really dislike is getting the same treatment lynching a black man did in some communities in the South during Jim Crow.
Happily, there's a solution: Congress can, by law, establish a larger area from which to draw DC juries, producing a jury pool that isn't quite so outrageously biased. That's constitutional thanks to DC not being a state.
Oh stop with this nonsense, Brett.
If Democrats on a jury would always decide against Trump, why wouldn't Republican jurors always decide in his favor?
Given the cultishness surrounding Trump I'd say the latter is more likely, but I don't think either one is true. If they were, how would you ever get a conviction in a case involving a politician? Menendez and Blagojevich come to mind immediately.
No, it's not that at all. If for no other reason than that the grand jurors would not even know what laws the cops were attempting to enforce in this situation; that wouldn't be part of the information presented to them.
Look, I realize that petite jurors are, by modern tradition anyway, "mushrooms". (Kept in the dark and fed BS...) But I really doubt that grand jurors are quite as ignorant.
What in the world was the purpose in writing this screed? And by a professor! Perhaps things have changed but once upon a time, law professors taught that decision making ought be based upon thorough research of the facts, determining the applicable law and apply one to the other to come up with an appropriate judgement. This little piece you present proposes to base a conclusion of bias upon innuendo, supposition and unsupported assumption of facts. Seems to me that is the exact opposite of good lawyering. Professor, you didn’t even attempt to ascertain the facts. Missing from your piece of fantasy are the facts that DOJ policy does not favor repeated attempts at obtaining an indictment. After receiving a No Bill the assigned attorney must submit a request to resubmit a case to the Grand Jury. That request must include a discussion about why the assigned attorney believes the first Grand Jury declined to indict as well as a description of the additional investigation undertaken to cure the original presentation’s shortcomings. In almost 25 years as an AUSA I never even heard of approval being given to present a case to a different Grand Jury panel. Forum shopping for a more favorable panel simply is not permitted. Contrary to your assertion, I have yet to see any allegation that such forum shopping occurred. I have found no news article which supports your claim that, “Since the failed indictment for Reid, there have been two more grand juries that failed to return a true bill.” The news reports are consistent that three attempts were made. I have seen nothing which indicates the presentations were to three separate panels. That appears to be just a bit more of your supposition. I encourage you to in the future exercise a bit more self control and professionalism incumbent to a law professor in forming your submissions.
Where were you when hundreds of non-violent defendants were over-charged with "obstruction of an official proceeding" for actions that would normally be non-felonies?
Wait, when and where is this mythical time period and place where breaking into the seat of government to steal an election would normally be a non-felony?
The same mythical time period and place where people actually tried to steal an election.
I you don't think J6 was an attempt to steal an election you are a hopeless fool.
It was a response to various local governments looking the other way during BLM. Trump took advantage of it, "You must do the same thing."
It was no serious attempt to overthrow anything. You needed to hyperbolate it way up so as to get rid of your political opposition, as you had been trying in 37 other initiatives the past 5 years by that point.
He's horrid. So are you, goal-oriented, faceting hyperbolator.
At common law there was a privilege to resist an unlawful arrest. See, John Bad Elk v. United States, 177 U.S. 529 (1900) (even though the wisdom of doing so is highly dubious.) Recording a police officer in performance of his duties in a public place is not a crime. Indeed, it is First Amendment protected activity. American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois v. Alvarez, 679 F.3d 583 , 596 (May 8, 2012) ("The act of making an audio or audiovisual recording is necessarily included within the First Amendment's guarantee of speech and press rights as a corollary of the right to disseminate the resulting recording.")
The First Amendment right to record government officials engaged in their duties in a public place, including police officers performing their responsibilities, is clearly established. As the First Circuit has opined:
Glik v. Cunniffe, 655 F.3d 78, 82-83 (1st Cir. 2011).
I recall that in the wake of the Rodney King beating there was a joking reference to an all points bulletin put out by the LAPD including the warning: THIS SUSPECT IS ARMED AND DANGEROUS. HE HAS A CAMCORDER.
The truth is dangerous to bad cops !
But, does one camera capture enough information to be foolproof ?
In the course of journalistic practice I was not infrequently ordered by police to cease photography. My response to the officer was always the same: "Please speak to your supervisor about that, and I will comply with whatever is required by law." It never failed to produce prompt permission to continue photographing, sometimes accompanied by admonishment to try to stay out of the way. So sometimes I stepped back a few steps, and switched from a wide-angle lens to a zoom.
"Not infrequently"
Oh, you mean like "frequently"??
Medicine uses the similar "Not Uncommon" all the time, still sticks in my Craw (anyone know a good Craw Un-sticker??)
"(Insert Arcane Medical Condition/Symptom here) is Not Uncommon"
"Oh, so it's "Common"??
"No, it's just not "Uncommon"
You know what's "Not Uncommon" and happens "Not Infrequently"??
Poltroons molesting the language
Frank
An examination of the purported sandwich thrown may indicate something more deadly than usual. Might a ham sandwich thrown at those who claim pig meat comes from a dirty animal and thus would cause emotional distress too ? So, maybe the contents of the purported sandwich thrown were a further offense to the officer based on his religion or creed ?
Simple assault is not enough these days. Inviting people into the Capital on 1/6/21 became a crime for those invited in.
Pigs may be dirty but they got personality
Emmett Louis Till (July 25, 1941 – August 28, 1955) was an African American youth, who was 14 years old when he was abducted and lynched in Mississippi in 1955 after being accused of offending a white woman, Carolyn Bryant, in her family's grocery store
Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam were indicted for murder. The state's prosecuting attorney, Hamilton Caldwell, was not confident that he could get a conviction in a case of white violence against a black male accused of insulting a white woman.
Only three outcomes were possible in Mississippi for capital murder: life imprisonment, the death penalty, or acquittal. On September 23, 1955 the all-white, all-male jury (both women and blacks had been banned) acquitted both Milam and Bryant after a 67-minute deliberation; one juror said, "If we hadn't stopped to drink pop, it wouldn't have taken that long."
Yay "Jury Nullification" !!!!!!!!"
You don’t have to be all that carefully tuned to realize that throwing a sandwich at someone likely isn’t done with an intent to cause them harm.
Maybe the DC grand juries are just smarter than Josh Blackman.
I don't think grand juries are "finely attuned to the difference between misdemeanors and felonies", I think grand juries have an approximately average level of bullshit detector and when prosecutors tell them throwing a sub sandwich at a guy is felony assault, they say "get the fuck out of here".
Like I'd say for charging Derek Chauvin with murder for having the misfortune to be present for Floyd George's Fentanyl Overdose
Except that’s not what happened, which everyone here knows - even you - so why do you think saying this strengthens your argument instead of weakening it?
You're right, I forgot to mention Floyd George's Hypertension, Coronary Artery Disease, and "Crack Lung", that contributed to the lethality of the Fentanyl he took, did Chauvin give him those conditions also??
You forgot mitochondrial challenges
A trust in a non-professional "average level of bullshit detector" sounds like why we have juries.
People with knowledge about what reasonably warrants an indictment have offered an educated opinion that overcharging was present.
Jurors have the duty and ability to determine if the law requires indictment and (later) conviction.
The jury system rests on this principle. The issues here are less complex than for other crimes.
Looking at a New York grand jury handbook, jurors are guided on what is required to indict. That determines if they "may" indict.
They are not required to indict. There is also a prosecutorial discretion component. The Constitution provides for a local jury to provide a local sense of justice.
That factors in. You can argue that some grand jurors will "nullify" by not prosecuting when the evidence allows or even compels it.
Did that occur here? Local juror sentiment might factor in, just as it might factor in against certain people (some accounts state D.C. juries are traditionally strict against certain criminal defendants).
It's part of the nature of the system. OTOH, as noted, there was overcharging, so how much this was involved is less unclear.
I think that deciding that throwing a deli sandwhich was not a sufficiently severe action to support aggravated felony charges is well within the purpose of what a grand jury is supposed to be for.
Professor Blackman does not call it prosecutor nullification when prosecutors exercise prosecutorial discretion. He calls it prosecutorial discretion. Professor Blackman, meet grand jury discretion. It’s a thing. And not only is it a thing, it’s every bit as legitimate as prosecutorial discretion. It’s particularly legitimate when prosecutors insist on maximally charging in the face of both traditional prosecurial norms and the community’s sense of right and wrong, their common-sense ideas about what’s really serious and what’s a heat-of-the-moment gesture that doesn’t actually cause anyone any lasting damage.
The grand jury here did its job and legitimately represented the sense and conscience of the community. As it should. This is what a grand jury is for.
Every now and then, it’s a grand jury’s job to say that indicting a ham sandwich just isn’t kosher.
What would be the result if a right winger threw a sandwich at law enforcement?
Gulag.
The same thing.
In the other hand, if a right winger beat a police officer with an iron bar, the result would be a presidential pardon.
They would be hailed as heros and get a presidential pardon.
The Ashli Babbit treatment, she didn't throw anything
Every now and then, it’s a grand jury’s job to say that indicting a ham sandwich just isn’t kosher.
Good work, Y.
Well, Jeanine Pirro's mistake was apparently to not indict a Ham Sandwich...but instead, to pursue charges against a Subway Turkey Club.
I’ll put the matter more strongly. As an original matter, the prosecutor had no role. People would take their complaints directly to the grand jury, which would take testimony and decide whether or not to indict, and prosecution would come in only after that. The constituional responsibility remains the grand jury’s, with the prosecutor merely an advisor.
Professor Blackman’s post is just as nonsensical as a whine about “Congressional nullification” if Congress declines to pass one of the “President’s” laws. Just as the President doesn’t make the laws in our constitutional system, he merely makes recommendations to Congress, the prosecutor doesn’t charge people with crimes, he merely makes recommendations to the grand jury. In our system of government, a grand jury’s discretion over whether to accept a prosecutor’s recommendation and indict is every bit as broad over Congress’ discretion whether to accept the President’s recommendation and pass a law.
No amount of toadying to an over-aggrandizing President, no amount of accusing those who disagree with the Executive Branch and its boss as engaging in “nullification” as if they were and the constitutional bodies were in charge of the matter, changes that.
In the sandwich throwing case: unless that was actually the first case presented to the grand jury , it had probably already seen and indicted on incredibly serious felonies. So when a prosecutor shows up saying sandwich throwing is also a felony, that will probably raise some eyebrows.
Good point. Grand juries, unlike petit juries, handle multiple cases.
I find it sort of hilarious Josh focuses on grand jury composition (with all the unstated implications there, which we saw in the J6 prosecutions) and completely ignores one very obvious factor:
The person pursing the indictments. Maybe, just maybe, could Jeanine “Jeroboam” Pirro be part of the problem? To borrow the words of an unnamed Fox producer in the Dominon lawsuit she’s a “reckless maniac.”
Did she swear off booze like Hegseth when she took this job?
ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ,
versus
CABLE NEWS NETWORK, INC.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/26079252/dershcnnca11opn082925.pdf
Competing concurrences regarding current doctrine. Josh Blackman is cited. Dersh is seeking SCOTUS review.
Gorsuch/Thomas dissent from denial forthcoming?
Lagoa correctly concluded she was bound by NYT v. Sullivan, but wrote a cert petition as a concurrence. Starting with an obvious lie:
What Dershowitz is complaining about is that after CNN showed exactly what he said, they commented on it in ways he didn't like. That's not defamation.
"There can be little dispute" is typical online commentary that often involves something at least disputable.
There’s a certain irony in a judge claiming that Dershowitz was defamed because they might have been uncharitably hyperbolic in describing what he said and its legal implications. Judges do this to other the positions of other judges and lawyers all the time!
D.C. residents know a fascist pig when they see one. Waiting for Blackman's tortured justification as to why the 6th amendment doesn't apply to D.C.
Sure, the fact that Jeanine Pirro couldn't convince a grand jury that throwing a sandwich is felony assault definitely proves that Trump couldn't have gotten a fair trial in DC. Unassailable logic.
"an average D.C. resident who can take time off from work to serve extended periods of federal grand jury duty" - As usual, Professor Josh is either a liar or an idiot, or both. Federal grand jury duty is mandatory for those summoned. Excuses can be granted for "undue hardship or extreme inconvenience," as determined by the court.
Josh Blackman thinks DC grand juries three times refused to indict “sandwich guy” because DC grand juries are overwhelmingly biased against Trump. No doubt that’s part of it.
But could DC juries also feel disrespected because they indicted over 1000 people for Jan. 6 offenses, saw that nearly all were convicted, and saw the ringleader pardon (or commute) all of them?
I was looking for Josh's post expressing concern about the pardoning of Jan. 6th criminals who injured law enforcement officers with a lot more than a scratch on the hand, but just couldn't find it. I guess it was accidentally deleted. Josh, could you please re-post?