The Volokh Conspiracy
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Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Gorsuch Walk Back Bostock
Justice Sotomayor is right. The majority cannot just wish away Bostock.
A lot can happen in five years. June 2020, or Blue June as I called it, was one of the most depressing periods in recent Supreme Court history. After Justice Kennedy retired, Chief Justice Roberts became the new swing vote, and swung to the left in nearly every case. Perhaps the most confounding decision was Bostock. Justice Gorsuch, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, ruled that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 all along prohibited discrimination against gays, lesbians, and transgender people.
The decision was profoundly wrong. Yet, I think Bostock can be understood, at least in part, as a reflection of the zeitgeist. June 2020 was close to peak woke. The pandemic combined with #MeToo and the George Floyd "racial reckoning" created a perform storm for progressivism. All of the trend lines seemed to be moving towards the acceptance of what is often described as transgender ideology--the argument that biological sex and gender identity were distinct, and that irreversible medical treatment should be provided to minors to conform biological sex sex to gender identity.
But over the past five years, those trend lines reversed. This reversal was due, in part, to new medical information about how puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones affect minors. It was also due to revelations that public schools were secretly transitioning children without their parents' consent. And perhaps most critically, people became no longer afraid to criticize the orthodoxy. The left's most powerful tool was censorship--on social media in particular. But boycotts against Target and Bud Light, as well as demonstrations about biological males competing in female sports, shifted the Overton Window on what could be discussed. (I worry that Justice Barrett would see these movements as "animus.")
Supporting these shifts were state legislatures that passed laws restricting providing medical treatment to minors, and barring transgender athletes from sports. Were these laws clearly constitutional under United States v. Virginia? I'll just say that Justice Sotomayor's dissent was more persuasive than I expected. Were these laws consistent with the "because of" analysis under Bostock? Again, I think the dissent made the case more persuasively than I expected. Chief Justice Roberts gave us yet another Houdini opinion: focus on the exceptions for the medical treatment, and ignore the necessary role that biological sex plays in the regime. The man is a master of misdirection. Don't be fooled. I think the Sixth Circuit and Justice Alito got it right.
So what changed between 2020 and 2025? In particular, what can explain the votes of Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Gorsuch. In fairness, I'm not sure the Chief ever fully bought Gorsuch's position. As the sixth member, he had a free vote, and he could cast it to help create the appearance of bipartisanship. I would like to give Roberts the benefit of the doubt, but he surrendered the presumption of regularity after NFIB.
What about Justice Gorsuch? It is difficult to describe how much anger Gorsuch received within conservative circles for Bostock. That decision gave Adrien Vermeule the perfect opportunity to advance common good constitutionalism. Bostock also opened a window for the James Wilson Institute to promote the study of natural law. For many people (not me) Bostock was the first hint that something was wrong with the Trump appointees. At a Federalist Society Convention, Gorsuch joked that he doesn't care what we think about his decisions. But that isn't true. One doesn't become a Supreme Court justice unless one deeply cares what members of his community think. Noscitur a sociis. Judge a judge by the company he keeps.
I remain convinced that the full court press placed on the conservative Justices helped grease the skids for Dobbs. And I think that pressure had an effect on Justice Gorsuch as well.
For example, during oral argument in Skrmetti, Justice Gorsuch did not say a word. He did not open his mouth once. Even as the word "Bostock" was uttered more than twenty times, Gorsuch said nothing. He gave the Wall Street Journal editorial page nothing to scrutinize.
What about during the opinion hand down? Mark Walsh offered this account:
As she discusses her view that the majority is trying to distinguish "away" Bostock v. Clayton County, the 2020 decision that said Title VII covered sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, Justice Neil Gorsuch, the author of Bostock but a member of today's majority, turns just to his left and looks at her intently, with his hand to his head.
The sound of silence.
(I am grateful that SCOTUSBlog-Dispatch is re-investing in this valuable feature.)
In Skrmetti, Roberts and Gorsuch walked back Bostock. That much is clear. Will it be overruled? Justice Alito said he would sail under that pirate flag as a matter of statutory stare decisis.
I dissented in Bostock, but I accept the decision as a precedent that is entitled to the staunch protection we give statutory interpretation decisions
But it will not be extended a single league further.
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Imagine thinking that not being an asshole to gay people is "peak woke"...
Imagine thinking that rewriting the English language is required for "not being an asshole".
All PC is case. Woke is 100% the fault of the lawyer profession. It is to plunder the assets of our productive parties for the enrichment of the profession and of its tech bro sponsors. Today, it is the tech bros, yesterday, it was the whatever bros, railroad, phone, oil, the oligarchy. It is an attack on nation and on Western Civilization. To save both, the lawyer profession must be crushed. Then self help must visit the bros enemy. They give no quarter.
Josh says the same. To end the woke attack, find the lawyer profession.
Justice Gorsuch, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, ruled that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 all along prohibited discrimination against gays, lesbians, and transgender people.
The decision was profoundly wrong. Yet, I think Bostock can be understood, at least in part, as a reflection of the zeitgeist. June 2020 was close to peak woke. The pandemic combined with #MeToo and the George Floyd "racial reckoning" created a perform storm for progressivism. All of the trend lines seemed to be moving towards the acceptance of what is often described as transgender ideology--the argument that biological sex and gender identity were distinct, and that irreversible medical treatment should be provided to minors to conform biological sex sex to gender identity.
LLMs are going to end the careers of many lawyers.
It should be written by the legislature, owned by it, and held liable for any wrongful damage.
As a matter of logic, Bostock was right. Anti-gay prejudice is founded on the sexist notion that men are expected to behave in one way and women in another. If it's OK for a man to sleep with a woman, but not with another man, that's sexism. I understand that most people don't think of it in those terms, but sexism really is at the root of anti-gay prejudice.
That and the justices seem to just plain dislike trans people. Most of them clearly don’t like gays (although they maybe somehow separate gay “people” from gay “acts”), but they don’t like trans people even more.
The sexual selfishness of the gays and of their lawyer enablers killed 20 million people the rough way. Imagine being punished for failing to report tuberculosis, a rare condition today. but severe ruinous punishment for reporting AIDS by doctors. Imagine preventing the the quarantive of the early gay patients after its viral cause was found by that Washington DC fuck Fauci. The white parts of Washington are gayer than San Fran. That fuck should have been hanged for mass murder. To deter. He is totally protected by the lawyer profession.
This is what Trump and Blackman supporters actually believe. Cesspool of pure hate and malice.
No. It's disgust. A scientifically valid humanist response.
And if you ask a racist or an anti-Semite why they hate blacks or Jews, you'll likely get some variation of "It's disgust. A scientifically valid humanist response"
If, instead, you asked an anthropologist or any other smart person they would tell you disgust is an evolutionary protective mechanism.
Maybe one day you'll run into a smart person and you could ask them.
And since you consider yourself a smart person, tell us which logical fallacy you just committed.
OK, doesn't look like Magnus is coming back to tell us about his logical fallacy so I'll just have to do it for him. It's called undistributed middle, and it works like this:
Dogs have four legs
Henry's pet has four legs
Therefore Henry's pet is a dog.
Not necessarily. Maybe Henry has a cat. Or a ferrett, Or a hamster. Or, maybe it is a dog; we just can't tell from the information we have.
Likewise, Magnus say:
Disgust is a protective mechanism that nature gave us
I feel disgust toward homosexuals
Therefore nature says homosexuality is a bad thing.
Well, not so fast. That disgust is "sometimes" a protective mechanism doesn't mean it is always a protective mechanism. I'm disgusted at the thought of eating raw oysters but I don't make moral judgments about it. Some disgust is cultural or religious, some of it is nothing more than personal discomfort. So, the fact that *sometimes* it is a protective mechanism tells us nothing about homosexuality.
Magnus, consider this a learning experience.
Homosexuality has broad disgust geographically and temporally.
I think Judge Scalia exposed how juvenille your argument really is by pointing out that in the most homoesexually tolerant ancient civilizations they never dignified 'gay marriage', it was recognized as a perversion and that was it.
The sexism card is as overplayed and bankrupt as the racism card.
I’m squeezing my pee pee between my thighs…that makes me a pretty lady!! Happy birthday Mr. President, happy birthday to you!
I'm surprised that you didn't say that we don't know how men should behave until we make sure they don't need trans-ing 🙂
But it simply is not. And that is the flaw of Bostock. If I don't like homosexuals, I don't hate men, and I don't hate women. I dislike homosexuality. That's the stubbornness of the decision that is profoundly wrong.
No, that is the flaw with your reasoning. Hatred and animus are not required to show discrimination. If an employer discriminates against anyone it matters not if he loves or hates them.
But discrimination requires discrimination. If I choose an inordinate amount of men over women then it could be plausibly said that I discriminate based on sex. If I discriminate against homosexuals equally among men and women then whatever discrimination I am doing is not based upon sex.
A contrary position is facile and results oriented.
That makes the words mean nothing. You don't discriminate to show love, and you don't not discriminate to show hate.
wvattorney, you're missing the point. Take the case of three people, Adam, Steve, and Eve. Adam is allowed to have sex with Eve, but not with Steve. Why? Because Adam is male. If Adam were female, or if Steve were female, then they could have sex with each other. So it is sex discrimination. If I am, or am not, permitted to do something based entirely on my sex, it's sex discrimination.
Sure. You are making the crazy hyper literal Bostock argument. But it is silly. If I fire Adam, it is not because I discriminate against MEN, it is because I discriminate against homosexuals which is a different category.
If you are in good faith trying to ferret out discrimination you look for the actual quality that one is discriminating upon. And in your hypo nobody would say that I dislike Adam because he is a man. I dislike him because he is a man who has sex with other men. The last part of that sentence is the clincher, it doesn't stop with "man."
And it gets to my true motives. Why shouldn't the law look at true motives, especially in discrimination cases, and not invent pretend ones.
Especially if you consider that I would fire lesbian women. Under Bostock that would mean that I discriminate against BOTH men and women, which is to say that I don't discriminate based on sex at all. And all the heterosexual ones stay employed. After all of the semantics it is clear what quality I use to discriminate, and it is not sex.
The court should look to true motive, when the motive is one of the elements of the law. But motivation often isn't one of the elements. And that's the case here.
Correct.
Incorrect. If I fire men but not women who have red cars, I have discriminated against men. If I fire women, but not men who have blue trucks, I have discriminated against women. If I do both, I actually have discriminated against both men and women.
Motivation is the key element in the law. One discriminates BECAUSE of sex. That is motive based.
In your example, it is clear that you are discriminating based on vehicle choices, not sex. By definition, I cannot be biased against both men and women. That proves exactly that I am not discriminating based upon sex.
If you dislike (or fire) Adam for having sex with Steve, you are firing him for being a man who does what you think only women should do, namely have sex with men.
In your opinion, does gender stereotyping violate Title VII? If I require female employees to wear makeup but have no such requirement for men, is that illegal discrimination? (I'm not asking if you think, as a matter of policy, that it should be illegal; I'm asking if you think that under a fair reading of Title VII that it is.) Because as a former EEOC hearing officer, I can assure you that gender stereotyping had already been held to be illegal long before Bostock.
Bostock simply went the next logical step and held that anti-gay prejudice is based on the sexist idea that men and women are to be sexually attracted to different things based on sexist ideas about what men and women should find sexually attractive. If you're a man, you're supposed to like pussy; if you're a woman, you're supposed to like dick. In other words, it ultimately is sex-based discrimination.
"who does what you think only women should do, namely have sex with men."
Right, I'm not firing him because he is a man. I'm firing him because of this quoted part which is contributory of him being a man---it's an added category which is the real reason I am firing him. Not because he's simply a man.
Your second part proves the point. I have a belief that each sex should be attracted to opposite sex partners. That's not a slam on men, nor women. It is discrimination based upon sexual orientation, a wholly different type of discrimination than what we've agreed to is equal treatment between the sexes on that point.
I disagree that Price Waterhouse banned sex stereotypes.
In that case you had a situation where the company said two things:
1) In order to be a partner, you must have quality X.
2) If any woman has quality X, she is a bad employee unfit for partner.
The Court took the logical deduction and saw that was discrimination because of sex. How people take that case and say that there cannot be hair style rules and restroom rules is beyond me.
Suppose you fire a woman for not being sufficiently deferential to men; another sexist stereotype. She was not fired for being a woman; she was fired for being insufficiently deferential to men. In your opinion, does she have a case as Title VII is currently written?
I think the whole point of Title VII is not just to let women and minorities in the door, but to put them on an equal footing once they're there. And that includes wiping out all stereotypes that stand in the way of achieving that goal, even if, as in Bostock, there are unintended side effects.
Would you extend it to its logical conclusion? More bathrooms for women than men is a violation? (The idea that women pee more often then men is sexist socially induced behavior, right?). Different kinds of bathrooms for men and women is a violation (the idea that men pee standing and women sitting is sexist social-induced behavior, right? Women are biologicallt capable of peeing standing, so it’s the moral obligation of the federal government to eradicate their sexist preference not to, right?) Disciplining white students for wearing blackface is a violation? Gyneocology as a distinct discipline is a violation (isn’t all this biology nonsense just a social construct anyway?)
Martin has no writing skill. Writes like little children speak, like you can see into his head what he really means. I've tried to tell him nicely that someone should look first at what he is posting....
bye desperately needs a mirror. Or, every accusation is a confession.
You'd do it for a cis woman. Don't be an asshole. Just pretend it's a popsicle or something.
Imagine being so stupid as to think that disagreeing with the deranged transgender ideology has anything to do with mistreating people.
This is, unfortunately, the level of discourse that people like MartinNed want to have. There are serious conversations to be had on the topic, but mn just wants to call people assholes.
There is no talking to deniers. There is only reporting deniers. Cancel them.
several people called me "tranny" the last time I discussed this case. some enlightened folks like yourself respectfully believe trans people are confused, but others harbor intense animosity towards our kind.
No one would give a shit if you people didn't demand so much from everyone else.
Every single normal person was drafted into being involuntary participants in transgender healthcare protocols.
Like many evil things it's an inversion of life. Mental health treatment for transes should be a private responsibility between the doctor and the patient. Transgender ideology demands mental health treatment for transes be provided society and thus a public responsibility on every single person out there.
The overwhelming majority have other mental health disorders. These should be fully treated before any trans treatment begins. Trans may be secondary to other disorders. In honest studies, trans treatment increased the suicide rate as other disorders went undertreated.
This is where a medmal lawsuit can help. It will have more influence over this industry than anything else. I would support one if started. The lawyer will file 100 such claims with no merit, but never help kids mutilated by these wokes.
There is something wrong with every tran I've seen or heard about. I don't hate them but generally they hate themselves.
but your kind has some super-disgusting examples
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/11/sam-brinton-005.jpg
NOt sure what you meant but it is illogical to say that when you disagree with non-trans there are an infinite number of reasons why but with a trans it must be because they are trans . Many trans are not right in the head...is that anti-trans? No,not if it is true
Imagine thinking that maybe the Iranians might be right.
I found Bostock to be exceedingly clear and straightforward.
JB reveals is outcome oriented “jurisprudence”.
An academic shouldn’t have emotional investment in SCOTUS decisions.
I found Bostock to be exceedingly clear and straightforward.
JB reveals is outcome oriented “jurisprudence”.
An academic shouldn’t have emotional investment in SCOTUS decisions.
But … finding a contradiction between not discriminating against gay people and allowing states to continue to regulate medical care for minors …
Ffs.
What is the frigging point of entrusting these clowns with a lifetime appointment if they're so weak they can be manipulated by public opinion? The judiciary is long overdue for some serious reforms.
It's not public opinion, as such. More like "social group" opinion.
There is no way to overcome local culture. That is why the Supreme Court must be moved to the middle of the continent, which is Wichita, KS. Move them out of Washington DC. Move to Iran, within a short time, you will become Iranian, even if you hate that at the outset. People imitate. There is no changing that.
Interesting. Not sure KS is as conservative a place as it once was though.
The middle of the continent is in North Dakota, so you can't even get your mentally ill idea correct.
Sorry to spoil your obnoxious trolling but the literal geographic center of the US is in S. Dakota. But more to the point, I take it he wasn't trying to be literal but was making a reference to a location outside the influence of DC politics and culture. Frankly a good idea at least for administrative agencies.
By my calculations, it's at the 39th parallel, just based the google AI claim that North America ranges from 7 to 71 degrees. That puts it closer to Wichita. How are you guys calculating it?
David is a prick but the original comment said "continent" not continental US.
Looking at a map and estimating, the geographical center of North America would appear to be somewhere in the Dakotas.
I don't think the original commenter was all that concerned with being that precise and probably meant to refer to the contiguous 48 states not the N. American continent. Unless crazy Dave was taking into account the interests of a possible Canadian 51st state, and throwing Mexico into the mix. More likely he just didn't know Canada and Mexico were in N. America.
Roberts voted with the majority so he could assign it to Gorsuch instead of having Ginsberg write the opinion
I’ve always thought the same thing.
This is the comment of the day, maybe the week!
I'm embarrassed this never occurred to me, while being surprised I've never seen this mentioned elsewhere before now.
It makes perfect sense, and if true is a reminder about how ridiculous it is that Blackman is so ungrateful for Roberts service as chief. He has never stopped to think how many worse opinions were avoided because of this. Yet the moron thought Roberts should resign and let Obama appoint his replacement after Obamacare as tax decision.
that irreversible medical treatment should be provided to minors to conform biological sex to gender identity.
To be clear, "irreversible medical treatment" was not involved here since "dispensing puberty blockers or hormones" is not "irreversible." [citing headnotes] As Sotomayor noted:
The use of surgery to treat gender dysphoria, which JUSTICE THOMAS addresses in some detail, see ante, at 11 (concurring opinion), is not at issue in this case.
Meanwhile, so-called 'censorship' [boycotts of Bud Light?] by non-governmental actors is not as strong of a tool as legislation and executive policies, which very well involve animus.
animus may well be back on the menu. Barrett would apply only rational-basis review. and in Scalia's dissent in Romer, he argued that societal animus against homosexuals was a legitimate rational basis, since legislating morality was a legitimate State interest.
I believe the evidence was starting to show that Puberty Blockers and such can have long term irreversible side effects while having little to no observed benefit.
"evidence was starting to show"
It remains true even if you repeat it, Sarcastr0.
It remains pretty meaningless.
Sotomayor is hardly a reliable objective science source.
None of them are. Let’s be real.
She is not a scientific source here.
She is stating as a judge what the dispute entails as a legal matter. She is a reliable source on that.
It is irreversible just not physically. Whatever happens with Dylan Mulvaney bodily he is a sick person with no future as a normal human being bar a miracle.
I actually agree with Josh for once. in 2020, Bostock was a 6-3 decision with Gorsuch writing for the majority. in 2025, the Overton window has shifted sharply Right, Bostock is "woke" and Gorsuch has to keep his mouth shut if he doesn't want to get cancelled.
what happened to Originalism, Josh? what happened to Textualism? what happened to applying the law to the facts, to calling balls and strikes? wasn't the whole point of Originalism to rip the bandaid off, reverse bad precedent set by judicial activism, and rule objectively?
but the same Court, with the same nine Justices, can't even stay internally consistent with *itself*, over the span of a measly five years! you have to be the kind of schmuck that believes pro wrestling is real to think the Court isn't working backwards to justify their desired outcome.
if they can't respect the precedent they themselves set, it shows they don't believe their own words. hacks, the lot of them.
Bostock was statutory construction, there's no grand constitutional theory at work there.
Congress should have passed a law either affirming the interpretation in Bostock or reversing it.
Huh? How exactly are these cases inconsistent? Bostock ruled that discrimination on the bases of sex is prohibited under the 1964 civil rights act. Here they ruled that states can ban genital mutilation of children. There is no inconsistency.
The inconsistency is applying the but-for standard in Bostock, but not in Skrmetti. To be sure, Alito gave a reason for why it applies to a statute but the EP clause: the latter requires men or women being favored as a group. But, that reason strikes me as weak.
There is no but-for causation in Skrmetti. It is illegal to mutilate a child’s genitalia regardless of sex. Bostock and Skrmetti aren’t related cases.
Surgery was not at issue in this case.
Or puberty blockers. Either way it applies to both sexes equally.
But for being a boy (sex), a trans girl could have gotten estrogen to affirm her gender identity. To be sure, Roberts argued the but-for case is different because the girl does not have gender dysphoria. But as Blackman put it, it was Houdini move to "focus on the exceptions for the medical treatment, and ignore the necessary role that biological sex plays in the regime."
Was it common for girls to go to the doctor and say " I identify as a girl, but am not, can you prescribe me estrogen so my physical appearance will ape that of a real girl?"
Still not seeing it. Neither boys nor girls can get hormones to affirm their gender identity, so there's no but-for causation.
A cis girl can get estrogen to affirm her gender identity. A trans girl cannot.
And, a cis girl can get puberty blockers if she has unwanted hair growth. But a trans girl cannot.
Normal girls do not go to doctors to get estrogen to affirm their personal belief they are girls.
No, a girl can't get estrogen to affirm anything. She will be given estrogen, if she gets it, to restore a normal biological state.
"And, a cis girl can get puberty blockers if she has unwanted hair growth."
Nope. A girl is not going to get puberty blockers if she doesn't like the fact that hair in certain places is a natural consequence of puberty. She'll get them if puberty starts unnaturally early, and that's it.
You're trying to pretend that female minors get get estrogen on a whim, and male minors testosterone on the same basis, but it's simply not true. They'll get them, if at all, to restore a normal biological state.
"No, a girl can't get estrogen to affirm anything. She will be given estrogen, if she gets it, to restore a normal biological state."
Yup. It's like arguing that threating a French person for amnesia, to restore memories of growing up in France, is the same as attempting to plant false memories of growing up in France in the mind of someone who is distressed because he didn't grow up in France.
Gender identity isn't a coherent concept. For most people, gender identity merely refers to their knowledge of their own sex. For people with gender dysphoria, gender identity refers to an ideation that they should have been a sex that they can never experience being.
So a girl takes estrogen to restore the characteristics of her sex, a boy with gender dysphoria takes it to try to satisfy a false ideation about his identity.
TwelveInchPeckerchecker, transgender identity and gender dysphoria are different concepts. They may or may not co-exist in the same person.
Gender dysphoria is the distress a person experiences due to inconsistency between their gender identity—their personal sense of their own gender—and their sex assigned at birth. Gender nonconformity -- that is, transgender identity -- is not the same thing as gender dysphoria and does not always lead to dysphoria or distress.
"Gender nonconformity -- that is, transgender identity"
Sigh. Gender nonconformity and transgender identity are different concepts...
We may be saying the same thing, but I would actually phrase it as for most people, "gender identity" doesn't exist at all. None of us can get inside anyone else's head — which is one reason I don't think gender identity is a coherent concept — so I can only speak about myself, but I know in discussions trans people (or their supporters) have tried to explain it by flipping it around and saying, "Just like you think of yourself as male…"¹ But I don't think of myself as male. (Yes, I realize I am teeing this up for riposte.) I know I'm male in the same way I know I have dark hair (not much of it left, though!), but I have no self-identity as a male any more than I do as a dark-haired person.
¹Analogous to the rhetorical question that gay people used to ask in rebuttal, "Well, when did you first decide/realize you were straight?" But that question worked because there was always a time for each straight person when s/he would realize s/he was attracted to the opposite sex.
Did you really have to decide or did your short arm let you know you liked girls?
If gender identity does not exist, what accounts for gender dysphoria?
"If gender identity does not exist, what accounts for gender dysphoria?"
Social pressure?
Agreed. Aside from folks with genuine delusions, all males know that they're male. Some may feel that they really should be female.
The fact that someone knows that they're male but feels that they really should be female doesn't place them in the same category or give them anything in common with people who know that they're female.
Hair color is a bad analogy, because nobody has a hair color reveal party for their baby (and hair color changes over one's lifetime anyway; my hair darkened through half my life and then started turning gray after that). From birth on, everyone is fed a lot of expectations for gendered behavior, both explicitly and implicitly, far sooner and more substantially than the stereotypes associated with various hair colors.
That doesn't rebutt the "but for" distinction. If neither surgery nor hormonal treatments were at issue, what exactly was the "gender affirming care" being litigated here?
I think, (but didn't check before posting) that hormone treatments WERE being litigated. In adolescents, those CAN cause sterility by interfering with the maturing of reproductive organs during a key phase, making that an irreversible harm.
In Bostock (with a different opinion) it could have been legal to fire a homosexual, regardless of sex. Equal treatment for the sexes all around.
I think the difference than can be justified is that Bostock was taking a literal statutory construction tack whereas applying sex discrimination to the Equal Protection Clause is done with a purpose and not for a literal result. The EP Clause deals with invidious discrimination whereas (per Bostock) the statute deals with what it hyper literally says.
cannpro, there was no issue of "genital mutilation of children" before SCOTUS in Skrmetti -- no matter how often the MAGA cult repeats that Big Lie in Goebbels fashion. The District Court had opined:
Plaintiffs do not have standing to challenge SB1's ban on "surgically removing, modifying, altering, or entering into tissues, cavities, or organs of a human being" when the purpose of such procedures is to "enable a minor to identify with, or live as, a purported identity inconsistent with the minor's sex" or to treat "purported discomfort or distress from a discordance between the minor's sex and asserted identity." Tenn. Code Ann. §§ 68-33-103(a)(1)(A)-(B); 68-33-102(5)(A)-(B). Accordingly, any relief provided Plaintiff pursuant to the Motion will not impact SB1's ban on such surgeries.
L.W. ex rel. Williams v. Skrmetti, 679 F.Supp.3d 668, 681 (M.D. Tenn. 2023) [footnote omitted], rev'd on other grounds, 83 F.4th 460 (6th Cir.). No one appealed that issue.
The term "mutilation" flags the animus involved here. It also generally assumes the premise while tossing around scare words. The fact that it is not present in the case underlines this.
The implication is that the surgery will destroy something that is not problematic. People usually don't talk about FGM, for instance, as a positive development. They suggest it is quite harmful.
Justice Sotomayor notes:
When provided in appropriate cases, gender-affirming medical care can meaningfully improve the health and well-being of transgender adolescents, reducing anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and (for some patients) the need for more invasive surgical treatments later in life.
Instead, we get scare language about "genital mutilation of children." Some people will have surgery because they and their doctors determine it is appropriate. Surgery is suitable in various instances for various reasons.
It is not by definition "mutilation."
"The implication is that the surgery will destroy something that is not problematic."
Not so much an implication as an explicit point.
For instance, there's a mental illness, "alien hand syndrome", where you become obsessed with the idea that your hand is some foreign growth, and want it removed. Even if you can find an unethical doctor to do that, it's still the fact you're having something healthy destroyed.
Similar with a guy who wants to pretend to be a woman, and has his genitals cut off/inverted. His mental illness doesn't change the fact that he's mutilating himself.
We let adults mutilate themselves, and do all manner of self-destructive things. Children? Not so much.
Brett, what on earth does that have to do with whether any issue involving genital surgery was before SCOTUS in Skrmetti? It plainly wasn't.
The MAGA cult's incessant talk about genital surgery for minors calls to mind Adolf Hitler's words:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_Nazi_Germany [footnote omitted.]
"Brett, what on earth does that have to do with whether any issue involving genital surgery was before SCOTUS in Skrmetti?"
Not this shit again. As you have said, the plaintiffs challenged the ban on genital surgery in the District court, and lost on standing. But the outcome is the same as if their claims hadn't gotten tossed. No genital surgery for minors.
But the literature is against Justice Sotomayor
The study, authored by Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy and colleagues and posted online before journal publication, found that depression symptoms in adolescents diagnosed with gender dysphoria “did not change significantly over 24 months” of being on puberty blockers.
"The term "mutilation" flags the animus involved here."
I remember people who wanted to replace the term "Female Genital Mutilation" with "Female Genital Cutting" making this argument.
At least no one tried to call it Female Genital Affirmation or whatever.
What a red herring you found.
I'm not the one that brought it up.
I'm shocked that you guys can't have a consistent position on FGM.
No, you are the one that brought it up.
Whatever people were trying to soften FGM have nothing to do with the language in the Supreme Court decision.
This subthread is not about the language in the Supreme Court decision.
Please try to keep up.
Squirrel!
I guess if one is being hyper technical, hormone treatments which suppress the development of breasts in biological females is not genital "mutilation", because breasts are not genitals.
One is left to wonder how exactly such hormone treatments ease a dysphoria patient's anxiety. It's quite the mystery. Lots of things here not being decided by this SCOTUS decision. It must be incredibly narrow, leaves me wondering why any trans advocate is even bothered by the result.
"People usually don't talk about FGM, for instance, as a positive development. "
And we rightly put doctors who perform it in jail.
Maybe the anti-FGM law is unconstitutional because it allows a baby boy to have a clitoris removed, but not a baby girl?
That decision about proper medical practice is one confined to a state legislature not a judge who has drank the Kool-Aid.
"cannpro, there was no issue of "genital mutilation of children" before SCOTUS in Skrmetti "
Sigh. As had been discussed ad-nauseum, the plaintiffs lost on the mutilation issue in the District court on standing. But the SCOTUS precedent still forecloses that issue. Ultimately it didn't matter that the mutilation claims got dismissed on standing.
I don't know what we've got to do to convince this guy. The plaintiffs lost on the small ask; therefore and by the words of the opinion, they lost on the big ask. Genital mutilation of children can be prohibited by a state just as if it was directly presented to SCOTUS in Skrmetti.
The rationale subsumes the mutilation question.
"Bostock ruled that discrimination on the bases of sex is prohibited under the 1964 civil rights act."
Which would never have been enacted if anybody had thought it actually implied Bostock.
At least Josh comes out of the closet and admits he is not, and never was a textualist. He thinks Gorsuch and Roberts should have ignored the plain text in Bostock and ruled that sex discrimination was not covered, despite it being black letter law.
I think Josh just has little interest in pretending the text actually forced the conclusion in Bostock.
If the text of the 1964 act had actually forced this conclusion, they would have noticed that in 1964, and it would have been amended prior to passage.
If the text of the 1964 act had actually forced this conclusion, they would have noticed that in 1964, and it would have been amended prior to passage.
Why would they have noticed that? Homosexuality was hardly widely accepted in 1964. Per wiki,
Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment or hard labor.
And Bowers was decided in 1986. So the the whole notion of anti-gay discrimination, and what the CRA implied about it, was probably not at the forefront of anyone's mind in 1964.
In the interim, both social and legal views of homosexuality changed dramatically, but the text remained the same, and its implications were due for re-examination.
In effect, you are pretending to know exactly what would have happened, and what people would have thought, under entirely different circumstances, and given entirely different knowledge and attitudes.
This, of course, is a major problem with originalism. "Well we know what they would have done/said, etc." But we don't know.
Legislatures pass laws all the time that force conclusions that were not anticipated. The 1964 civil rights act is so broad unanticipated consequences were inevitable. You can’t get around the unambiguous text of the law by claiming the drafters wouldn’t have foreseen all the consequences. Congress gets the law it wrote, not the law it wished it wrote had it spent more time contemplating.
Because for the reasons discussed in the dissenting opinions, this is not clear from the text. If Dave gets fired because he is gay, in no universe does he go home and tell his family that he was fired because he is a man. Everyone knows that he was fired because he is gay; many men work at his place of employment.
That was the flaw in Bostock; promoting hyper literalism under the guise of plain text reading.
It doesn't matter that other men work at his place of employment. SCOTUS has already addressed this: if an employer hires men and women but has different standards for each sex it counts as discrimination. So if the employer will hire fathers but fires mothers, it is discrimination against women even if she would go home and tell her family she was fired for being a mother, not a woman. After all, many women work at her place of employment.
Same thing with being gay. The employer will fire Dave for being a man who dates men, but not women with the same sexual orientation. Under the plain text discriminating on this basis is sex discrimination.
"The employer will fire Dave for being a man who dates men, but not women with the same sexual orientation."
Different sexual orientation and that makes the difference. The women are heterosexual not homosexual and that is the deciding factor, NOT sex. To hold as the Court did in Bostock one would have to conclude that the employer discriminates against BOTH men and women, which is to say he doesn't discriminate based upon sex at all.
If you hate everyone you might be a lot of things but discriminatory is not one of them.
When Somin argued that the but-for standard implied DOMAs discriminate on the basis of sex, I argued as you did. I reasoned that standard required you to change only the sex of the person and nothing else. And as you point out, you have to change both the sex and sexual orientation.
Gorsuch got around that by claiming only sex had changed because sexual orientation isn't same-sex versus opposite-sex attraction, but rather attracted to men versus women. And in that case, only sex did change.
It's not good that such wordplay controls the analysis. And in this case, the majority used wordplay (the diagnosis changed) to get a different result. As such, neither side has an airtight case.
Imagine if the law did not exist and there was nothing riding on the answer. Imagine any 12 people in groups in conference rooms deciding why Dave got fired. Not one of those groups would say it was because Dave was a man---it was because he was a homosexual.
It only becomes an issue because the law does exist and LGBTQ people wanted the law to apply to them. And the results are ridiculous because they are outcome oriented.
If my son wears a dress and I am upset by that, is it because I hate men? Hell, I am a man. I don't hate myself. The argument is so juvenile.
If the text of the Second Amendment actually protected automatic weapons, they would have noticed that in 1791, and it would've been amended prior to passage.
(Whether that's true or not, you would never accept that form of argument. The text is the text, regardless of what anyone was anticipating about its application when it was enacted.)
But the point is , IT ISN"T . This goes back to Obergefell
"Due to Obergefell, those with sincerely held religious beliefs concerning marriage will find it increasingly difficult to participate in society without running afoul of Obergefell and its effect on other antidiscrimination laws." JUSTICE ALITO
Just change it to "Bostock"
Bostock shows the limits of a too clever textualism shorn of all cultural and historical context. Bostock is an abomination, and no one who voted for Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act would recognize the rule Bostock announced. It is nonsense on stilts.
Accounting for “cultural and historical context” is inconsistent with textualism. If you are a textualist it doesn’t matter what the congressmen who voted for the Civil Rights Act wanted. It only matters what they enacted. If you want the court to rewrite the Ciivil Rights Act to achieve what you think the original voters would have wanted then you aren’t a real textualist.
I don't think certain members of the Court had thought through the full implication of Bostock. Trump v. Orr is probably where it dies.
Orr v Trump reveals the lie at the base of all the early transgender arguments.
They have long argued that sex and gender are separate. Sex is an immutable fact, gender is a cultural concept they argued.
In Orr v. Trump they demand sex and gender be munged back into the synonyms they always had been. They now argue that your cultural role preference dictate your biological sex designation on your passport.
Did you know a trans individual already won an Olympic gold medal in a women’s event?? Yep, a nonbinary individual is considered trans and the gold medal winning Canadian team has a player named Quinn that isn’t a woman. So how did the IOC determine whether Quinn participated in the male or female division?? The IOC looked at her sex at birth! Apparently Quinn was fine with that even though Quinn isn’t a woman. Hmmmm
Yes, this is my original grievance with all this trans stuff. The situational argument that they are distinct and separate, or exactly overlapping, depending on which is more useful to obtain the trans advocate's policy preference.
We segregate private spaces (locker rooms etc) and sports according to sex, not gender. So it really shouldn't matter how a person self-identifies. Those reasons do not apply to the disputes in Bostock, which is why its "but for" analysis is defensible. It would not, and should not, apply to biological males competing in women's sports. In fact, that should be a violation of Title IX. Your biological sex (absent or because of a sex change surgery) is a physical characterustic just like hair or eye color. Things on a passport are observable traits. Wearing a dress or having long hair doesn't make you a woman. There's no way customs officials can scan your brain to obtain your gender identity.
The but-for analysis applies to all men (cis men and trans women alike) who want to compete in women's sports. But, each of these interpretations is plausible even though but-for being men, they could compete in women's sports. Title IX 1) permits schools to deny all men access to women's sports, 2) requires schools to deny all men access, 3) permits schools to deny cis men access, but requires trans women access, or 4) requires schools to deny cis men, but permits trans women access.
That's sort of where I am. If you are a man who wants to live as or identify as a woman, then I don't care. Have surgery or take medication. That's fine.
But when you come into the public sphere, want to use our restrooms, have your gender on our passports and such, demand that I use certain words, then WE do have a say.
It's not a privacy issue any longer. You've made it a forceful and in your face confrontation to demand that I agree with you. I decline to participate in that exercise.
Ahem.
You are hereby challenged to quote the portion of the text of "Title IX" ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/chapter-38 ) that allows, much less mandates, the existence of sports teams that exclude male athletes on the basis of sex.
Yes, I know that the executive and judicial branches have long interpreted Title IX as requiring the existence of separate-but-equal sports opportunities. The fact remains that the actual language of the law bans any "program or activity" that excludes persons on the basis of their sex, except as explicitly enumerated.
As sports programs are not among the enumerated exceptions, all single-sex sports at educational institutions have been outlawed by Title IX for more than half a century.
I'm confused by this, because I never said that Title IX requires the exclusion of male athletes. The regulations, as currently written, protect the opportunities of WOMEN to participate and compete in athletics. My point is that biological males are not women for the purposes of the statute. Maybe you are engaged in begging the question here. I feel like I'm being gaslighted with your response by your misconstruing my point to deflect against reality.
It's not my imagination that we have women only sports categories that are being protected by enforcement of Title IX in collegiate athletics. To comply according to regulatory enforcement, and because of the large number of men on a football team roster, many universities were forced over the past 25 years to discontinue other men's sports, such as gymnastics, to achieve an equitable participation balance and avoid discrimination lawsuits. (I know a guy who was on the Ohio State men's gymnastics team who was sad to see it ended.) Every female athlete displaced by a biological male in what is supposed to a women's sports category works against that math.
Unless of course one insists, against all logic and reason, that a trans woman is a woman for the purposes of athletics. It's why I said originally that we segregate sports according to sex, because the highest performing female cannot on average compete against the lowest performing male (who has gone through puberty) in most sports. If such things like physiological competitive advantage do not matter, then we should abolish the sex categories and let all sexes and genders compete against each other.
Yes, you live in a society that has repeatedly propagandized you with the Orwellian claim that Title IX is being enforced by government action to protect women's sports.
Thus my pointing you at the actual text as amended and codified ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/chapter-38 ), and asking you to cite the portion of it that supports that claim.
If the women's volleyball program at San Jose State does not qualify as a Federally-funded education program or activity, it is not covered by Title IX at all. If, on the other hand, it is a Federally-funded education program or activity, then it is prohibited from excluding anyone from participation on the basis of sex, unless it falls into an exception.
So, go ahead, follow the link above, read the law for yourself, look at the list of exceptions.
The proposition that actually defies "all logic and reason" is the claim that a law that enacts nothing but a prohibition on excluding participants from programs on the basis of their sex somehow requires that a man be excluded from the San Jose State women's volleyball team on the basis of his sex.
I think the most important opinion in Skrmetti was Justice Thomas's.
The Court itself has an institution has been prone to falling in love with experts and I think Justice Kennedy/O'Connor and the more Liberal Justices really drove the court in that direction.
What happened with WPATH I think has definitely altered a majority of the court's thinking with regards to experts, and I don't think Bostock will be extended past title VII
I know its odd to have such microscopic attention to legal matters. but the expert thing was fully on display in the
Philosopher and classicist Martha Nussbaum was called as a witness for the plaintiffs, while John Finnis, a law professor, drew on Aristotle, Plato, and Plutarch to argue that homosexuality, and indeed all forms of non-procreative sexual activity were at their core nothing but “the pursuit of an illusion,” the instrumentalization of one body by another.
Appareently Nussbaum lied to advance the gay agenda. She was universally condemned by some of the most unbiased folk I know
In the 1996 Supreme Court case Romer v. Evans, Martha Nussbaum was a plaintiff's attorney who argued against John Finnis's claim that natural law theories condemned gay and lesbian relationships as immoral.
Plato and Socrates were as rationally and sensibly anti-homosexual as could be (cf Gorgias) and Nussbaum twisted that.
What a bunch of hooey from the professor. Bostock is plain reading of a text - to read it otherwise is to let your hatred of transgender people override legal common sense. To his credit, Justice Gorsuch didn't let that happen. To no surprise, Thomas and Alito didn't let legal principles get in the way of their prejudices.
Contrast Skrmetti, which, to put it politely, out of step with the current zeitgeist to rein in an out of control equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. Only fanatics like Blackman, matching the fanaticism on the left at the ACLU, think these two cases are inconsistent.
to say Thomas principles would accept Bostock doesn't make sense
No originalist would ever vote for Bostock It's literally the opposite. whether your original intent or original meaning.
I understand Bostock as viewed purely textually. Now if we were talking about Scalia who never considered congressional intent, then yes, but Thomas has always considered what the words meant at the time they were understood and written.
"No originalist would ever vote for Bostock It's literally the opposite. whether your original intent or original meaning."
Since originalists don't care about congressional intent, but original public meaning, they would favor Bostock because it's based on the actual meanings of the words, and not implimenting a policy the drafters would have "wanted".
Yeah - I think Bostock's logic gets absurd but Gorsuch the Justice-tron isn't wrong in his textual analysis.
Do you agree with Alito that the but-for standard doesn't apply to the EP clause?
More like the butt-more standard!
If you were to literally follow a "but for" application of the 1964 act, an applicant for a job could outright lie about their sex, nationality, and so forth, and the employer would be forbidden to take that into account.
After all, but for your nationality, the lie that you were born in Canada when it was actually China would be the truth!
But in CFPB proceedings against banks that happens ALL THE TIME. Discrimination cases built on the false nationalities assigend by loan applicants. I once tried to find the real identities for those who refused on their application and was told that CFPB would come after us if we did that.
This is why "but for" causation is disfavored in the law or at least extremely scaled back. I mean, taken to its logical conclusion, my mother is responsible for everything I do because "but for" her giving birth to me I would not have committed a tortious act.
The law typically looks at proximate cause (which is just as ill-defined) instead of a but for cause.
Hugh make a huge mistake because you haven't checked what they actually said.
Just read your and other comments here and then this :
"Due to Obergefell, those with sincerely held religious beliefs concerning marriage will find it increasingly difficult to participate in society without running afoul of Obergefell and its effect on other antidiscrimination laws."
Skermetti was a huge win.
Do REASON Folks still care about Federalism ???
"Skrmetti sends a message that the twenty-five states with similar laws are standing on solid ground, absent state law or other challenges, protecting thousands of children from serious harm. That’s a win. "
And what these people choose to do for themselves is any of our business...how, exactly?
Do you think there is a State interest in protecting children? Or is that something states should opt out of and leave to parents?
Bostock, meet Bivens.
Indeed. That seems to be where it is headed. Applies to the civil rights act and nothing more. Make no mention of its name.
Baude's got a podcast on the opinion.
https://dividedargument.com/episodes/low-horse
Summary:
Roberts' opinion - Bostock doesn't apply for abstruse and sometimes wordplay reasons.
Barrett's concurrence - I dunno about Bostock's analysis...trans is not a suspect class, as they're too fuzzy a group and also there's no formal de jure discrimination in their history.
Alitos' concurrence - I hate Bostock. Also, under a purposivist view of suspect class analysis, being trans isn't enough like being black.
Thomas concurrence - relying on experts should not be part of our legal analysis. But so long as Sotomayor brought us here, I will yell about the experts.
Sotomayor's dissent - Yo, this is the Bostock fact pattern. Also the experts say this law is bad.
Kagan's dissent - This is Bostock, but this law may survive intermediate scrutiny so I'd just remand.
That's a pretty good summary, but I would add (in my opinion, not Baude's) that Alito thinks the but-for standard doesn't apply to the EP Clause. Instead, he believes men or women as a group must be disfavored.
It's even funnier when liberal decisions are similarly "incoherent" but nobody cares because there were 5 votes for the preferred policy result (the Josh Blackman standard).
It seems this is mostly a problem on the right, because originalists try and ground decisions in particular legal principles based on the text, about which they can reasonably disagree because all agree deciding the other way would not satisfy with ANY original meaning justification.
The liberals have it much easier, being free to be untethered from any textual limitation, and can philosophize to their hearts content expanding substantive due process for the little guy. Competing concurrences being an exercise in demonstrating how compassionate and enlightened they are, almost never articulating a competing interpretation of the law text... unless they would have gone even farther.
(I have no doubt Alito hates Bostock, and thinks it wrongly decided. This is not an explosive revelation. It doesn't happen on the left of late because there are not many cases where a liberal decision does not get extended in a way that leaves the lib justices disappointed. The Burger Court ended a long time ago.)
It is legally and logically not true that if you disagree with a trans it is because they are trans. Employers hire trans because the idea that a non-trans is better for other employees, preferred by customers, and not subject to immediate inspection--- is the opposite of discrimination. I am running a business not a trans halfway house.
In the not-so-long-run any other view will increase trans dislike by the general population.
Daring people to discriminate against you is discrimination.When two trans have a fight of course neither makes trans insults
No one should think that Sotomayor would accept overturning Bostock, which is the basis of her complaint, yet Bostock is exceeding wrong and I am sure she knows that too.
Lincoln's statement about slavers applies to homosexuals and Sotomayor : They don't want you to say it is legal, they want you to say it is a social good
Jim Obergefell: We Still Don't Enjoy True Marriage Equality
To which mainstream America says 'you are destroying society be glad you are allowed to exist at all"
Late comment. A few concluding thoughts.
JB is a major Roberts critic. His reasoning is often bad. But Roberts is an appropriate subject of criticism here.
I think of this as a "bad Roberts" special. The "Houdini" comment is fair. He wanted a result, but the result was not to go too far, and he "crafted" an opinion to do that. Judges on multimember courts often will do this. It's a question of how convincing it is.
[The job of papering over disputes is flagged by the lengths of the separate writings. There are ultimately 118 pages, and the majority opinion is only twenty-something pages.]
I don't think it is that convincing here. The opinion has language that can be used by lower court judges (and SCOTUS itself) in various ways. It also purposefully limited its scope, though some on each side will exaggerate ("LGBTQ rights are done!" etc.).
What about the "walk back Bostock" part? I think it limited its potential scope. How much? That probably can be exaggerated, but probably somewhat.
The fear of engaging with the opinion is not a great sign. Overall, I think Sotomayor had the better argument.
The two opinions can be differentiated. But at some point, limiting Bostock (which itself dealt with a limited subject) is probably what happened. Consider this:
"We have not yet considered whether Bostock’s reasoning reaches beyond the Title VII context, and we need not do so here."
What about "Bostock's reasoning" specifically should be so limited? The reference is especially notable given the stance of the current presidential administration. The reference is sort of a JAQ type of reference. It's an invitation for those who want to take it. Others will use it to emphasize that this specific opinion is limited.
Bostock invited Gorsuch textualism. I don't think we have to talk about "wokeness" here. The opinion did not apply constitutional text. There is significant overlap (see, e.g., Sotomayor's FN9). Also, Bostock has overall principles with a wide breadth. This makes it all the more strange that Gorsuch was so silent during oral argument and here. There's probably a story to be told there, though I won't guess on it.
The Roberts special can also have some benefits. Again, the opinion is limited in scope, including its artificial avoidance of the trans discrimination question. The artificiality can be used for and against trans people. Small favors, I guess.
This issue is far from new. I was watching an Australian television series entitled Newton's Law, which has a subplot involving puberty blockers, and it took place almost a decade ago.
Trans people are not "newer than cell phones," to quote Alito. Someone posted a video of an episode of the original Love Boat with a trans subplot. Parents dealt with the needs of trans children long before then.
I am sorry their work is harder now.
One more thing, ma'am, one more thing ...
Bostock was 6-3, but it is far from clear how much Roberts was gung-ho about the whole thing. Gorsuch + the liberals, for somewhat different reasons, were more supportive.
Now, we have a 6-3 Court, and the dynamic has changed. Various precedents will be "walked back." The same would apply if the ideological dynamic went the other way.
"Someone posted a video of an episode of the original Love Boat with a trans subplot. Parents dealt with the needs of trans children long before then."
Really? Was the trans character in the Love Boat someone who made the decision as an adult after years of therapy and tests, or as a child after the parents were told that they could have a dead son or a live daughter?
Are those the only two possibilities?
There's only one possibility.
"What about "Bostock's reasoning" specifically should be so limited?"
Putting aside that it was just flat out wrong, it interpreted a statute by its text. When applying that logic to the Equal Protection Clause about sex/gender, a step unsupported by the text, its hyper literal application does not seem proper.
The heightened scrutiny for women in the EP decisions were ones that had a stereotype against women as being the fairer sex and unsuited for managing estates, getting preferences in the drinking age, and too soft for military academies. It just doesn't translate well into transgender issues. The principle is what is important in EP issues over the plain text.
Bostock can be distinguished on its own grounds in this context.
Do you agree with Alito that the EP requires either women or men as a group to be disfavored? If so, do laws that prohibit inter-racial marriage violate the EP only if they are motived by white supremacy? Or perhaps Alito is wrong, and such laws violate the EP even if they disfavor no race.
I think an anti-miscegenation law, although facially neutral, has the purpose of white supremacy and is an unlawful discrimination based upon race.
The old Pace argument---that it applies equally, a black can't marry a white, nor can a white marry a black---is too shallow. The purpose of all such laws is to not sully the white race with "inferior" genes.
I think judges can take notice of that underlying purpose when reading what looks like a neutral text.
I am posing a hypo that the law exists without the purpose of advancing white supremacy.
I'm not trying to fight the hypo but we would need to travel to that alternate universe and analyze this mysterious non-racial purpose underlying the law. It would have a lot of work to do to keep people from marrying one another.
interpreted a statute by its text
And, if its text arises in another context, it would logically apply there too. I noted there are some differences depending on the context, including citing a footnote that touched upon the constitutional issue.
OTOH, if the same language arises in another statute, e.g., other than assuming the (wrong) premise that Bostock is wrong, so we should limit it to its facts, the quoted passage is dubious.
U.S. v. Virginia notes that "Parties who seek to defend gender-based government action must demonstrate an "exceedingly persuasive justification" for that action."
It is not just "stereotypes against" for a specific reason.
If there were an assumption that women were better than men in raising children, so men should not obtain custody, such a "gender-based" assumption would be suspect.
Regardless, "denying rights or opportunities" to trans people based on sex and gender stereotypes, including the allegations that they are morally unfit to be in the military, often arising from stereotypes of their "natural" state (familiar concepts, e.g., the concurrence in Bradwell) is quite translatable.
I disagree. You are shifting gears on the fly.
A law which discriminates against women (or men) is qualitatively different than whatever confused idea some people have about gender identity.
For whatever merit those arguments have---in my opinion, none---they are not the same as saying that my aunt is a sweet little woman who cannot manage an estate, best to leave it for men's work.
How providential to see this minutes after several objected to my sane replies
"One reason why you hear young people, millennials calling, for instance, someone transphobic, is because it is an easy, simplistic, superficial judgement of another. It is a judgement made by someone who has a very narrow conception of human motive, who doesn’t have any room for ambiguity, ambivalence, or irony. That’s someone who hasn’t done a lot of reading. Someone who hasn’t thought about human beings in a deeper way. The quick labelling of someone is an anti-intellectual sign. It’s a dumb move."
Conservatives' rejection of Bostock is (yet more) proof that they don't really care about Originalism, just outcomes.
Bostock is perfectly Originalist. The analysis would've been correct even in th '60s. That might not have been the analysis in the '60s in practice, but Originalism doesn't say that we have do analysis as if we were living in the time. That's ridiculous. If the legislators didn't fully comprehend the implications of the law they were passing, that's on them. Originalism doesn't require playing dumb. It's original meaning, not original interpretation or original application, and Bostock correctly understood what they law has meant all along.
It's super common for legislators not to fully comprehend the implications. In fact, it's impossible for them to. Laws always find novel ways of interacting with reality. That's what judges are for. The rule for Originalism is absolutely not "if the legislators didn't think of it then the law doesn't apply."