The Volokh Conspiracy
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Should Universities Treat Discrimination against Zionists as Discrimination against Jews?
One response David L. Bernstein and I have received to our article on campus antisemitism and free speech is that we conflate antizionism with antisemitism. I think that is a misreading of our article; we discuss where University should do with regard to complaints about antisemitism without adjudicating whether the complaints are valid. We think that speech should be protected regardless of whether it is antisemitic, and disruptive, violent, harassing, and other illicit forms of protest should be punished regardless of whether it is antisemitic. So in most of the controversies that have arisen, the question of whether the speech or conduct is "really" antisemitic is not terribly relevant to our thesis.
However, the issue does arise when a student or professor is accused of illegal discrimination against Zionists. "Zionist" is an ideological position, and while university rules may prohibit ideological discrimination, and in some cases ideological discrimination at state universities may violate the First Amendment, Title VI does not prohibit discrimination against Zionists, as such.
Title VI does prohibit discrimination against Jews, and the question then arises as to whether discrimination that is claimed to be discrimination against Zionists can or should be deemed to be discrimination against Jews.
"Zionist" can sometimes serve as a proxy for "Jew." For example, when someone talks about the "Zionist-controlled media," or refers to Jewish students on campus as "Zios," or speaks of "Zionists" exaggerating the Holocaust, invoking classic antisemitism, the fact that they substitute "Zionists" for Jews does not make the statements any less antisemitic. A student who tells his friend, "I feel like punching a Zionist today" and then punches the first student he sees wearing a kippah can't get around a charge of antisemitic violence because he used the word Zionist instead of Jew.
A more complicated issue is whether Zionism is so closely connected to perceptions of Jewishness that for the purposes of antidiscrimination law discrimination against Zionists should be deemed to be discrimination against Jews.
If it were a matter of first impression, I would be inclined to say no. Banning discrimination against Jews does not ban discrimination against things that are associated with Jews.
That is not, however, how courts have treated the issue of sexual orientation discrimination. Several state courts and agencies have been confronted with the question of whether discriminating against people seeking services for same-sex weddings amounts to discrimination based on sexual orientation. To my knowledge, every court or agency that has addressed the issue has found that it does.
In other words, imagine the father of one of the two brides in an upcoming same-sex wedding tries to hire a photographer for the wedding. The father is not gay, and the photographer does not have a policy of discriminating against gay customers, and indeed did a photoshoot for the daughter a few months earlier, knowing that she was gay.
Even though the customer is not gay, and even though the photographer only objects to working on same-sex weddings for ideological reasons, courts and agencies have held that the photographer is guilty of discrimination based on sexual orientation. To the extent they have discussed the issue, the relevant judges have explained that same-sex marriage is so closely tied to gay identity that discriminating against those associated with same-sex marriage is sexual orientation discrimination. And that is true even though not all gay people desire marriage, and some are ideologically opposed to it.
Analogously, imagine a student group on campus that has a "no Zionist" policy. The group claims not to discriminate against Jews, and even has a few anti-Zionist Jewish members. Given the apparent consensus regarding same-sex marriage, it would seem that discrimination against Zionists amounts to discrimination against Jews because Zionism is so closely associated with Jews. And that would be true even though some Jews are ideologically opposed to Israel, and even though the group is admits other could prove that it admits other Jews.
It also seems inevitable that a student group that bans Zionists will discriminate against Jews in being much more likely to ask potential Jewish members if they are Zionists than to ask others. Students at encampments such as UCLA's not surprisingly singled out visible Jews, such as Jews wearing yarmulkes, to grill about their views regarding Israel before allowing them to traverse campus.
Imagine a campus group that says that they don't discriminate against gays, but only against those who favor same-sex marriage. Or a campus group in the south of the early 1970s that announced that it does not discriminate against black members, but does ban those who favor racial integration. Campus officials would have good reason to suspect that these policies would result in discrimination against gay or or black students, respectively.
So while it may seem a simple matter to separate discrimination based on ethnicity (being Jewish) from discrimination based on an ideological position ("Zionist") that the overwhelmingly majority of the group hold and that is closely associated with that group, in practice it's not nearly so clear-cut.
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For most anti-semites today, the claim that they are only anti-zionists is only an attempt to present an aura of ____, in order to hide their anti-semitism. S
Similar to many leftists that claim to be offended by hamas 10/7/23 act,
For years, I have proposed that these treason indoctrination camp universities be de-exempted, defunded, and de-accredited. Then seize their assets in civil forfeiture.
The next step is being taken:
https://nypost.com/2025/06/04/us-news/doe-says-columbia-should-be-stripped-of-accreditation-over-indifference-to-antisemitism-on-campus/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alert&utm_content=20250604?&utm_source=sailthru&lctg=607d90f2373dd11b6ec10b87&utm_term=NYP%20-%20News%20Alerts
The analogy with same-sex marriage cake baking doesn’t quite feel right.. in that case, presumably the problem isn’t with marriage, per se, but rather that it’s a gay person getting married. Thus the discrimination is that person A getting married gets a cake but person B getting married doesn’t get a cake, solely because person B is gay. The idea that it’s discriminatory is dependent on seeing the relevant comparison class as “other people buying wedding cakes” rather than “other people buying cakes”.
The argument above makes it sound like gay people just REALLY REALLY like wedding cakes for some third reason and someone’s not selling wedding cakes AT ALL because they’re associated with being gay…
But (1) The baker assumedly doesn’t care if you are gay or you are entering a same-sex marriage for some other reasons, he’s against it either way; (2) It can’t be as simple as discrimination against gays if he bakes cakes for openly gay people otherwise, but not their weddings.
The cases of faux marriages is rare enough that a same-sex marriage is inextricably linked with being gay. In contrast, many non-Jews support Zionism.
I’d be surprised if the majority of Zionists aren’t non-Jews.
“In contrast, many non-Jews support Zionism.”
Counterpoint. Many non-gays support gay marriage. Support of gay marriage is not inextricably linked with being gay.
Support? Agreed. If someone refuses to service a meeting that advocated for support of gay marriage, that’s not discrimination against gays.
But, when someone refuses to service a gay wedding, which is conduct inextricably linked to being gay, that’s discrimination against gays. I’m not seeing analogous conduct associated with Zionism that is inextricably linked to being Jewish.
The baker refused to design a special cake for the gay wedding but was willing to sell a generic wedding cake. The question then becomes one of forced speech or free exercise if religion instead of merely providing a good or service ( this would also apply to the photographer as most photographers consider what they do as a form of artistic expression).
I may be missing something, but isn’t this just using a disparate impact theory? I’m personally fine with disparate impact theory when used intelligently, and I think your examples involve using that approach intelligently. There is, however, often significant opposition to the entire concept in conservative/libertarian circles.
Also, great point.
It is intellectually possible to be anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic. In fact, I agree that some who are vehemently anti-Zionist are not at all anti-Semitic. That said, those who are obsessed with the issue of Israel to all other international issues are almost always anti-Semitic. I should say that most spewing anti-Zionist rhetoric don’t understand the issues at all and are repeating anti-Semitic tropes and being used as pawns by anti-Semites who are also anti-Zionists. But some Jews are anti-Zionist??? Yes, but so what.
This is reminiscent of affirmative action. It is of course, intellectually possible to be against affirmative action and not be racist. In fact, I agree that some who are opposed to affirmative action are not racist. That said, those who are obsessed with the issue of affirmative action over all other domestic race issues are almost always racist. I should say that most spewing anti-affirmative action rhetoric don’t understand the issues at all and are repeating racists tropes and being used as pawns by racists who are also anti-affirmative action. But some blacks are anti-affirmative action??? Yes, but so what.
None of this is sarcasm but it’s funny that those on the right can’t see the obvious parallel. I agree with both.
You have it backwards. Pro-AA = Racist, not Anti-AA. Why do you think that the Bondi DOJ is using the CRA to end AA in colleges and universities right now? AA is explicit discrimination on the basis of illegal criteria, such as race, ethnic origin, etc.
Why do you think that the Bondi DOJ is using the CRA to end AA in colleges and universities right now?
lol, you don’t really believe that, do you?
A libertarian would simply note that both AA and racism use race as a determinative characteristic, and would oppose both.
Actually… A libertarian would distinguish between AA and racism on the part of the private sector and government, because in the private sector discrimination, so long as it is limited to actions you can undertake for non-discriminatory reasons, isn’t a violation of the non-aggression principle. And so the libertarian is free to oppose, but not prohibit, private sector discrimination.
From a libertarian perspective, there’s no principled distinction between hiring, and deciding who you’re going to date. It’s ALL supposed to be fully voluntary!
While government, being a coercive organization, inherently in violation of the non-aggression principle, faces additional constraints under non-anarchist libertarian theory. There libertarians are free to both oppose AND prohibit.
You only talk about being libertarian these days when you can go after the Civil Rights Act.
Which was in response to a massively unfree regime in the south.
It worked. The south became a freer place in fact and law and by just about every measure.
Title VI also prohibits discrimination based on (real or perceived) national origin, and it’s fairly hard to distinguish “anti-Zionism” that crosses the Civil Rights Act line from more narrowly anti-Israeli discrimination that also crosses the Civil Rights Act line. I don’t think someone would escape legal liability by merely saying “oh, but I’m also produced against those other people who support Israel’s existence, not only people from Israel”.
“the question of whether the speech or conduct is “really” antisemitic is not terribly relevant to our thesis.”
And there you lost me, David. Of course it is relevant. Your antisemitic followers here in this blog have equated nearly all speech with antisemitic terrorism. They are using it and you to achieve political goals unrelated to Jews or Israel (both of whom they have historically disparaged for years here, but you are too blindly tribal to see it or, worse, just overlook it).
Next to Nixon, we have now the most antisemitic president in American history. But you just keep pretending that he and his followers are not so. They want Israel; Not you.
“have equated nearly all speech with antisemitic terrorism.”
Can you translate that into anything that makes sense in English?
I think he meant all speech critical of Israel.
I think the violence we’ve seen against Jews needs to stop — the firebombing in Boulder, the firebombing of Governor Shapiro’s home, the synagogue shootings. That needs to be suppressed as vigorously as necessary, and hamas needs to immediately release all hostages.
I am concerned that in some quarters, any disagreement with how the Netanyahu government is handling the situation are being labeled Anti-Semitic. And differences of opinion still need to be protected. Saying, i.e., that Israel is engaging in genocide, without more, does not make one a terrorist or even a terrorist sympathizer. There are legitimate quarrels with how Netanyahu has handled it, and they need to be aired.
Saying, i.e., that Israel is engaging in genocide, without more, does not make one a terrorist or even a terrorist sympathizer.
It makes one a propagandist for terrorists and a blood libeler. If the difference makes you comfortable, so be it.
No it doesn’t. That I am opposed to the death penalty does not make me pro-murderer; it means I think that’s not the right way to deal with it. It is possible to oppose both murder and the death penalty.
Likewise, that Hamas behaved abominably on October 7 does not give Israel the right to kill tens of thousands of civilians, starve them, drive them out of their homes, in revenge, and reasonable minds can well conclude that it’s looking more and more like genocide. If the difference makes you comfortable, so be it.
“Likewise, that Hamas behaved abominably on October 7 does not give Israel the right to kill tens of thousands of civilians, starve them, drive them out of their homes, in revenge, and reasonable minds can well conclude that it’s looking more and more like genocide.”
Which, of course they didn’t do. You are buying into Hamas (etc) propaganda. Almost every single claim of Israeli atrocities has turned out to be a flagrant lie, perpetuated at some point by Hamas (etc) and pushed by their supporters around the world.
Okay, so it’s just a question of fact.
So if it is true that Israel has killed “tens of thousands of civilians, starve[d] them, drive[n] them out of their homes, in revenge,” then you would agree with AWoNI that “it’s looking more and more like genocide”. Good to know there is some common ground!
Nice snark. But you know it’s false. Israel has inflicted less damage on Gaza and its population than the Allies did to the Axis in WWII. See the bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, among others. Were the US and its allies engaged in genocide?
As for genocide, in WWII, the Nazis managed to eliminate one third of world Jewry. Within the territories they controlled, the percentage was much higher. THAT looks like genocide.
How would that be blood libel?
What if the group that has a no Zionist policy is Jews Against Zionism? At Harvard some of the fiercest anti-Zionists are Jews.
After 1933 would it have made sense to forbid a group from having a no Nazi policy? Harvard had a German Club at the time. Some of the most anti-Nazi students at Harvard at the time were German and could well have set up a club with an anti-Nazi policy.
Zionism even more than Nazism is an inherently genocidal ideology. There are troubling questions about the role of U.S.-based Zionist donors and Zionist advocacy organizations during a mass murder genocide that is reaching a rate comparable to that of the Holocaust. If U.S. citizens including college students are materially supporting or inciting Zionist genocidal acts, such material support or incitement can easily rise to the level of federal criminal conduct. It seems silly to worry about a college organization that has a no Zionist policy. We should ask why aren’t we seeing any federal investigations or accountability—particularly for prominent figures with outsized influence, like Miriam Adelson or Haim Saban?
“Zionism even more than Nazism is an inherently genocidal ideology.”
I can’t even imagine the thought process that would lead to that conclusion, it’s so deranged.
I would replace “genocide” with “ethnic cleansing” but with that tweak, allow me to explain.
1. Zionism demands a nation for Jews in Palestine.
2. Unfortunately Palestine is already occupied. In particular, there are still more Palestinians than Jews living there even after 80 years.
3. Additional axiom: Zionism imagines Israel to be democratic and free from apartheid.
4. Additional fact: Israel has always felt, and apparently will always feel, that it must control all of Palestine.
Those four principles mean that the Palestinians have to be either permanently subjugated as non-citizens or cleared out of Palestine. To the extent the former isn’t sustainable forever, which seems to be the case, then the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is implied.
It is of course possible to argue against those four principles, especially #4, but they certainly aren’t “deranged.” In fact they’re seeming increasingly plausible.
1. Yes, but a state for Jews does not mean one without Muslims or Christians. As far as I have been able to determine, the bulk of the large Muslim population prefers living in a Jewish Israel, than a Muslim Gaza or Palestine.
2. Except that the Muslim population in what is now Israel was a tiny fraction of what it is today.
3. Well, Israel is far more pluralistic than anywhere controlled by. Palestinians, or even most Muslims countries today.
4. Ok, if you define Palestine to include all the land controlled by Israel, and stop there.
This is Joachim Martillo/Jonathan Affleck/Thors Provoni. He has been an online troll going back 30 years to his Usenet days. He used to (pretend to) be rabidly anti-Muslim, but in the last 10-15 years has invented an entirely new persona/back story which makes him a virulent antisemite.
Amazing. David and I agree on something.
I don’t see the relevance of this argument. Zionism is certainly a political philosophy. Can universities discriminate on that basis?
What if a university discriminates against anyone expressing support for one of the major political parties? Or that abortion should be banned or should be made completely legal right up to birth? Or any other controversial political topic?
That kind of discrimination strikes me as the opposite of the “academic freedom” that has been touted so strongly of late.
Because the question is not whether universities should allow discrimination based on ideology (generally, no), but whether Title VI requires them to ban discrimination against “Zionists.”
I understand the legal point. But that avoids the point that universities are recipients of enormous largesse from the federal (and state) taxpayers. And they resist any conditions on it in the name of academic freedom. That argument is severely undermined when universities themselves engage in ideological discrimination.
Universities obviously discriminate based on ideology. Naziism, cannibalism, anti-intellectualism, intelligent design, and the rantings of worm-brained health secretaries are all appropriately disfavored. The question is just where to draw the line. Where does sociopathy end and academic freedom begin?
Counterpoint. Bob Jones University didn’t discriminate when it banned mixed-race marriages and dating. African Americans weren’t discriminated against, they were free to attend the university. It was only a certain viewpoint/action that was discriminated against.
Of course the IRS didn’t see it that way.
When the government outlawed mixed-race marriages that was discrimination on the basis of race (Loving). Do you think if the government conditioned a benefit on not being in a mixed-race marriage, that wouldn’t be impermissible discrimination on the basis of race?
I think of Zionism as Jewish nationalism and not really Jewishness. The problem is that we generally don’t approve of nationalism in this country and that creates certain reservation. I don’t think nationalism is altogether bad but if nationalism causes a country to lash out at others it is wrong. I think French nationalism is ok if it means being proud of your country, but not if you want to kick every nonFrench person from France. Likewise being proud of Israel and your Jewishness is acceptable, trying to create an only Jewish Israel is un acceptable.
I think French nationalism is ok if it means being proud of your country…
Well, that’s not what it means. That’s patriotism. Patriotism good, nationalism bad.
Good point. Maybe nationalism is never good.
I’ll try to make the best argument I can in favor of Professor Bernstein’s position.
Suppose a student group has nothing at all against Indians. It merely opposes Indians misrepresenting themselves as “Native Americans” and attempting to set up their own independent tribal lands and governments on American soil. It thinks that doing so is racist. And moreover, it thinks that Indians ahould go back to India where they belong.
But it has nothing whatsoever against Indians as such. It merely disagrees with racist settler-colonialist Indians who falsely claim to be native to America, as well as Indian hypernationalists who think Indians ought to have their own government on American soil. It has no problem with Indians having their own government in India, where they belong. Just not in America.
It starts holding massive Indians Go Home rallies encouraging Indians to be
Discrimination against Indians or not?
After all, the ideas that Indians are “Native Americans” and/or should have their own government is just a political philosophy.
In which David Bernstein discovers disparate impact. Congratulations!
That said, I think the problem with the argument is that Indians and their governments exist here in America, while Israel and its government exist outside it.
There are many nationalist movements in the world. Does a student group that favors Spanish unity discriminate against Basques? Does a student group that supports a united Ireland discriminate against Ulster Unionists? One could come up with many more examples. Each could argue, with considerable basis, that their claim to a certain territory and political arrangement is an integral part of their identity.
Nor does the fact that Jews intertwine religion and nationalism strike me as making much difference. Lots of peoples do the same. For example, are people who think Vatican City shoild be part of Italy and its inhabitants subject to Italian law discriminating against Catholics? Are people who think England should be a republic discriminating against Anglicans, since they are calling for the abolition of the head of their church? Are people who oppose Sharia discriminating against Saudi Arabians? Are people who support an independent Ukraine discriminating against Russians or vice versa? Again there are many many examples. It’s quite common for multiple groups to believe a particular piece of turf is such an inherent part of their identity that denying their right to it is denying their right to exist. American courts would be flooded if they had to adjudicate these claims.
In general, foreign disputes, and Israel’s existence is a foreign dispute, do not give rise to discrimination claims unless there is concrete action against the civil rights of people in America. There simply isn’t a civil right to not have ones sense of national identity threatened.
In the context we are discussing, being a “Zionist” doesn’t mean philosophically being a Jewish nationalist. Relevant student groups or excluding students because they believe Israel should exist, regardless of their underlying philosophy, and it’s a position held by well over 90% of Jews. Also, it’s not “my position.” As I tried to make clear I would not conflate discrimination against a group with any ideological position related to that group. But as I also noted, this seems uncontroversial In the courts with regard to homosexuals and same-sex marriage, and I certainly don’t think Court should hold that Jews should have a different standard than other minority groups in this regard
Also, the relevant issue is and whether it illegal to have one sense of national identity threatened, it’s a question of whether it illegal to discriminate based on someone’s sense of national identity.
What if Jewish Voice for Peace announces that it will not accept Zionist members? (That isn’t quite their position, as I understand, but close enough.) That is, imagine a group which limits its membership to Jews but is anti-Zionist. (Depending on the university, they might be required to announce that membership is open to all who share the goals of the organization.) Or what if Eve Tushnet and her lesbian conservative Catholic friends form a group Lesbians Against Gay Marriage? Or a group of black students, inspired by Jason Riley et al., forms “Blacks Against Affirmative Action.” Can a group which is explicitly or tacitly composed of an identifiable protected class be guilty of discriminating against that class?
To be clear, Jewish Voice for Peace is currently banned at Columbia, but for having unauthorized demonstrations, not for discriminating against Jews.
It seems rather clear to me that under the relevant precedents, a gay photographer who was ideologically opposed to same-sex marriage who declined to photograph a same-sex wedding would be guilty of discrimination based on sexual orientation. the identity of the person engaging in the discrimination is irrelevant.
But I am talking about membership in a group, not provision of a commercial service. If your analogy holds, a considerable number of political positions cannot be espoused on campus. For example, it seems that the affirmative action bake sales must be banned, because a group that opposes affirmative action cannot operate any more than a photographer with a policy against photographing gay weddings or the Jewish Students for Peace (assuming that they advocated a single binational state, which isn’t quite their position, as I understand).
You can “espouse” anything you want. the question is exclusion or discrimination against those who don’t share what you are espousing. You already can’t discriminate in the most universities based on ideology, i.e. most universities have policies that require student groups to be open to all comers. the only question is whether title VI also comes into play.
How are you even a lawyer? Did you pay someone to take the bar for you?
Under relevant precedent, 303 Creative LLC, the first amendment allows the photographer to decline.
None of your analysis even makes any sense. It would be illegal to decline working with the Democratic and Republican parties because each organization’s membership is correlated with race? What?
As usual David, you’re allowing your stupidity to cloud your judgement.
When a cakeshop discriminates against gay weddings, they’re discriminating against people who wish to perform the act of getting gay married. They’re not discriminating against people who support gay marriage. Lots of straight people support gay marriage, but the cakeshop isn’t discriminating against them. (And of course, some gay people oppose it.)
If universities were discriminating against people who had performed some Zionism-related act, such as people who participate in Birthright Israel, that would be a closer comparison. But just “thinking Zionism is a good/bad idea,” like “thinking gay marriage is a good/bad idea,” isn’t nearly so closely related to being Jewish / gay.
Speaking of stupidity and ignorance, Those who are discriminating against Zionists on campus means anyone who thinks Israel should continue to exist, which is in fact very closely related to Jewish identity. In fact, not only do the vast majority of Jews think Israel should continue to exist, a recent poll showed that 78% Jews say that thinking Israel has the right to exist is antisemitic. Interestingly, almost the same percentage of non-Jews agreed
Again, no. That’s an ideological opinion which is held by scads of goyim. In contrast, entering into a same-sex marriage is conduct which is almost exclusively engaged in by gay people.
If instead someone refused to service a meeting that advocated for gay marriage, a position held by scads of straights, they would not be discriminating against gays. Perhaps there is an example of Zionist conduct that is almost exclusively engaged in by Jews. But, I can’t think of anything.
I’m reasonably confident that in the relevant jurisdictions if a Baker or photographer or whatnot have refused services to an organization or individual advocating same-sex marriage, the result would be exactly the same, i.e. it would be deemed discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Ok so much pure ass-hattery going on here but let me just ask, what are the “relevant jurisdictions” lol?
I think your confidence is misplaced. But, if that ever happens in some jurisdiction, then I will agree (only in that jurisdiction) discrimination against Zionism would be discrimination against Jews.
Even in Kentucky, refusal to print T-shirts for a gay rights organization was deemed discrimination based on sexual orientation, the store ultimately won first amendment and grounds. https://reason.com/2019/11/01/kentucky-printer-wins-fight-to-refuse-to-print-pro-lgbt-shirts/
The Kentucky Supreme Court disposed of the case for lack of statutory standing without reaching the question of whether there was discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. An earlier ruling by a Kentucky court of appeals held there wasn’t discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
The court of appeals also said, “A shopkeeper’s refusal to serve a homosexual, not because the person is homosexual, but because the shopkeeper disapproves of homosexual intercourse or same-sex marriage, would be the legal equivalent of sexual orientation discrimination.” So “A shopkeeper’s refusal to serve a [Jew], not because the person is [Jewish], but because the shopkeeper disapproves of [Zionism], would be the legal equivalent of sexual orientation discrimination.”
Still no. Same-sex marriage is conduct. Zionism is not. But as Randall pointed out, if the shopkeeper refused to serve someone because they participated in Birthright Israel, that would be discrimination against Jews.
Wow, how would you grade this sloppy analysis if it came from a student? F-
You’ve abandoned the whole gay-marriage comparison entirely. But leaving that aside…
All of the cases you’ve brought up so far have been won by the bigot. Not great when your argument is about why your purported bigot – the anti-Zionist – should be found in violation of antidiscrimination laws.
But you’ve failed to wonder why that is. All your analogies so far have the bigot declining to do something on behalf of LGBT ideology. In the case of gay marriage, as Josh and I pointed out, that directly impacts the gays who are wanting to get married. It’s not just an ideological thing. In the case of printing t-shirts, it impacts the gay community not to be able to get their message out, even if the customer actually asking to print the t-shirts isn’t even gay. Same as if a newspaper refused to carry ads for moyles or announce Jewish weddings, you’d probably say that newspaper was antisemitic even if protected by 1A.
You need to find a case where the discrimination truly rests solely on ideology and doesn’t involve roping the purported bigot into advancing the cause. For example, consider a coffeeshop that asks their customers to affirm their disdain of gay marriage (anyone who declines isn’t served). Do you think a court would judge that coffeeshop to be discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation? I don’t.
But, I can’t think of anything.
It’s in my post! Consider a college which declined admitting anyone who had participated in Birthright Israel.
OK. That would be discrimination against Jews.
Thanks for admitting your analogy is bunk by failing to defend it. Your whole post falls along with it.
Thanks also for revealing your true opinion, proving the results-oriented nature of your original, flawed argument. In other words, we now know this was bullshit:
You’re clearly inclined to say yes, based on the above.
But even as you beat this hasty retreat you can’t help but allow your underlying stupidity to shine. This observation completely undermines your backup point!
That is, someone who as you say is “discriminating against… anyone who thinks Israel should continue to exist” is predominantly discriminating against non-Jews.
Oh what a sad hack you are.
I think it’s hilarious that you can’t distinguish between explaining how precedent suggests courts will rule, and one’s personal opinion. But yeah, I’m not going to like down with dogs and pretend I can have a useful discussion of legal issues with you. But it is kind of fun to see you reduced to your default, sputtering insults.
explaining how precedent suggests courts will rule
Lol, you just admitted to Josh above that courts haven’t actually ruled on an analogous question, you just have a hunch. In other words, it’s all “personal opinion!” Personal opinion clothed in legal jargon, aka hackery.
Oh one other observation I can’t resist.
I think it’s hilarious that you can’t distinguish between explaining how precedent suggests courts will rule, and one’s personal opinion
This in reponse to:
Not even your insults survive scrutiny! Oh man it must be hard.
Once again, Bernstein is wrong – the issue is super clear cut. If banning Zionist were discrimination against Jews then banning Nazis would be discrimination against Germans.
That might be correct if Zionism were to Jews as Nazism is to Germans. But it isn’t.
Do go on.
Zionism is to Jews what Nazism is to Germans.
Out of curiosity, can you identify a single German political movement that doesn’t think there should be a German state? That doesn’t think that ethnic Germans from outside Germany should have a claim to citizenship?
While it’s true Nazis thought this, it’s hardly the whole tuth, because it doesn’t distinguish them from any other German political movement. The right of Germans to have a German state on historically German land, and automatic citizenship and a right to move to the German state for ethnic Germans, is the policy of every current German political party.
In other words, Zionism is to Jews what EVERY German political party is to Germans.
It isn’t what you call yourself or what you really are, it’s that the university is for students and studying. And whatever disrupts, it shouldn’t be allowed. Reason keeps saying “what about X?” “what about Y?” but it is the disruption that is wrong and whoever causes it should be BARRED
This is why at Catholic Mass we don’t argue about “Does Limbo exist?” that isn’t the place for that
So opposing tens of thousands of women and children being starved and bombed to death is discriminatory because such conduct is so inextricably intertwined with Jewish identity? LOL
You can oppose whatever you want, Including by giving events a ridiculously tendentious interpretation. You just can’t discriminate based on identity. in the relevant cases, no one is asking the relevant students when they support any or all of Israel’s particular actions, just whether they think Israel should cease to exist.
It is hard to be more loathsome than a Zionist.
Zionism is an outrageously extremist ideology that postulates a Palestinian is a subhuman placeholder that must yield his place and vanish when a white racial supremacist Zionist colonial settler appears to claim the Palestinian’s place. Because Palestinians have refused to vanish as the Zionist belief system requires, Zionists have whipped themselves into increasing hatred that has in the Gaza Holocaust now reached the level of mass murder genocide that was seen in the European Holocaust of Jews.
From Haaretz.
Yes to Transfer: 82% of Jewish Israelis Back Expelling Gazans
Next time my college students get on Logic I might trot out this utterly stupid excerpt
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In other words, imagine the father of one of the two brides in an upcoming same-sex wedding tries to hire a photographer for the wedding. The father is not gay, and the photographer does not have a policy of discriminating against gay customers, and indeed did a photoshoot for the daughter a few months earlier, knowing that she was gay.
Even though the customer is not gay, and even though the photographer only objects to working on same-sex weddings for ideological reasons, courts and agencies have held that the photographer is guilty of discrimination based on sexual orientation. To the extent they have discussed the issue, the relevant judges have explained that same-sex marriage is so closely tied to gay identity that discriminating against those associated with same-sex marriage is sexual orientation discrimination. And that is true even though not all gay people desire marriage, and some are ideologically opposed to it.
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Just on logic grounds this says 4 Beyond-Stupid things
1) It says a certain kind of bigotry is now required to accomadate homosexuals. Homosexual behavior is filthy perverted lust-driven perversion And in view of the courts
“Obergefell enables courts and governments to brand religious adherents who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman as bigots, making their religious liberty concerns that much easier to dismiss,”
2) “for ideological reasons” here is the real stupidity and hypocrisy of the writer: Supreme Court has allowed avowed atheists to take a conscientious objection based on CONSCIENCE !!!!!!
3) Another mind-boggling stupidity : A photographer can’t object to gay marriages because one of the gays might be Black and it could just be racism !!! If a child rapist is a Catholic do we ever say such stupid things as this writer said. Will you peer into consciences now ??
4)Worst of all, the stupid writer doesn’t know he’s wrong on the facts. The Masterpiece Cake case was totally against writer’s view. This is the Supreme Court writing okay :
” elements of a clear
and impermissible hostility toward the sincere religious beliefs motivating his objection. As the record shows, some of the commissioners
at the Commission’s formal, public hearings endorsed the view that
religious beliefs cannot legitimately be carried into the public sphere
or commercial domain, disparaged Phillips’ faith as despicable and
characterized it as merely rhetorical, and compared his invocation of
his sincerely held religious beliefs to defenses of slavery and the Holocaust. No commissioners objected to the comments. Nor were they
mentioned in the later state-court ruling or disavowed in the briefs
filed here. ”
This is by far the most ignorant article I’ve seen on REASON in over a year