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Second Amendment Roundup: Bruen Was Right
Joel Alicea’s defense of originalism demonstrates broad applicability of the text-history method.
J. Joel Alicea, "Bruen Was Right," 174 U. Pa. L. Rev. (forthcoming 2025), sets forth a comprehensive defense of the text-history approach and rejection of means-scrutiny set forth in Justice Clarance Thomas' opinion in Bruen. A professor at the Columbus School of Law, Alicea is the director of the Center for the Constitution and the Catholic Intellectual Tradition.
Some scholars argue that Bruen was a mistake. An exception Alicea cites is William Baude & Robert Leider, "The General-Law Right to Bear Arms," 99 Notre Dame L. Rev. 1465 (2024). My own humble defense of Bruen is set forth in "Text and History, Means-Ends Scrutiny, and the Second Amendment," 24 Fed. Soc. Rev. 54 (2023). Alicea's article deserves a deep read about which I can only skim the surface here.
As Alicea explains, the larger significance of Bruen "is in its rejection of tests like strict or intermediate scrutiny that have loomed large in rights jurisprudence since the 1960s. In their place, Bruen substituted a text-and-history-based test for evaluating the constitutionality of arms regulations that, if successful in the Second Amendment domain, holds out the prospect of displacing the tiers of scrutiny and other judicial balancing tests elsewhere in constitutional law." But if this "most thoroughgoing attempt by the Court to do originalism in the area of constitutional rights" fails, "it calls into question originalism's capacity to transition from a critical posture to a governing one, at least in the rights space."
Before outlining the article, I'll mention two cases citing Alicea about which readers may already be familiar. In NRA v. Bondi (11th Cir. 2025) (en banc), Chief Judge William Pryor sought to justify Florida's law subjecting persons aged 18 to 20 to imprisonment for purchase of a firearm based on this supposed analogue: "Founding-era law precluded individuals under the age of 21 from purchasing arms because they lacked cash and the capacity to contract."
But Alicea added to the above quote: "That being said, … I have not come across evidence of a principle that was generally held to be part of the Second Amendment right but that failed to make its way into some form of positive law." In fact, neither the common law nor Founding-era statutory law made it a crime for a minor to buy a firearm, and indeed the Militia Act of 1792 required every male citizen 18 and over to "provide himself with a good musket or firelock." By relying on civil laws involving the capacity to contract, Chief Judge Pryor "view[ed] a tradition at too high a level of generality," as Alicea would say. Bruen's Footnote 11 cautions against this type of reasoning when it said "[t]o the extent there are multiple plausible interpretations of [the scope of our Second Amendment rights], we will favor the one that is more consistent with the Second Amendment's command."
Alicea was more appropriately cited by Judge Ryan Nelson, dissenting in Duncan v. Bonta (9th Cir. 2025). As I explained in a post, the majority upheld California's ban on possession of a magazine holding over ten rounds on the basis that a magazine is a mere "accessory," not an "arm" under the Second Amendment's text, and that plaintiffs had not shown that such magazines are in "common use" under Bruen's Step One, the textual analysis. But as Judge Nelson cites Alicea as clarifying, "Conducting the common-use inquiry at the first step 'would be at odds with the fact that the common-use test is not about the semantic meaning of the Second Amendment's plain text.'"
That's a good lead in to Alicea's analysis of Bruen's Step One, the textual analysis, which first asks whether the persons are part of "the people," whether handguns (or magazines, in Duncan) are "arms," and whether carrying handguns for self-defense in public constitutes "bearing arms." Second, Bruen assumes that Heller conducted all of the historical work at Step One. Third, Step One covers whether the Second Amendment is implicated (similar to asking whether "speech" is being regulated under the First Amendment). And fourth, if successful under Step One, the burden shifts to the government to prove the constitutionality of the restriction.
A consequence of the above is that, "if the common-use test applies at Step Two, the government would have the burden of proving that an arm is not in common use, rather than the burden being on the challenger to prove that an arm is in common use." This becomes clearer under Bruen's analysis of the operative clause. "At Step One, it does not matter whether the person in question is a law-abiding citizen or a felon, whether the object in question is a handgun or a machine gun, or whether the conduct in question involves bearing an arm for self-defense or bearing an arm to commit a crime." One must go to Step Two to determine if there is a historical tradition of banning violent persons from gun possession, of prohibiting dangerous and unusual weapons, and of carrying arms for criminal purposes.
That leads to Step Two, the historical analysis, in which courts reason analogically to compare a modern restriction with the historical tradition of firearm regulation. This inquiry is originalist, but does not require the same historical law to justify the modern law, as long as consistent with the same principles. A good example of a historically-justified sensitive place is on board a commercial aircraft.
"Bruen's key move is to relocate who determines the appropriate means and end, largely taking this task away from judges and giving it back to the ratifiers." By contrast, under tiers of scrutiny, judges decide whether the state's interest is compelling and, for narrow tailoring, whether the means are proportional to the ends.
Alicea categorizes three principal criticisms of Bruen at Step Two. First is the Fallacy from Absence. Where there is historical silence, why should the state bear the burden to justify a restriction? For one thing, "putting the burden on the rights-claimant at Step Two would be asking the rights-claimant to prove a negative: that there was no historical limit on the right the claimant asserts." Moreover, the Second Amendment codifies a preexisting right, creating the presumption that the covered conduct is protected. Additionally, this is how other constitutional rights like speech are treated. "The difference is that Bruen—true to its originalist premises—requires historical support to overcome the presumption of unconstitutionality, whereas the tiers of scrutiny allow judicial moral and policy judgments to overcome the presumption."
Second is the Level-of-Generality Problem. This is presented in the "why" and the "how" of a historical tradition. In Rahimi, the majority decided that the surety and affray laws sufficed as analogues, while Justice Thomas in dissent thought they were at too high a level of generality.
Alicea distinguishes "substantive" from "incidental" features of the history, the former being the contours of the right understood at the Founding and the latter being facts that were not germane to those contours (e.g., that the supposed analogue and the modern law were both passed on a Tuesday). Whether an arm is dangerous and unusual or in common use is informed by the historical purposes of the right, including to enable citizens to bring arms kept at home for militia duty. "Thus, just as it is an error to incorporate incidental features into our description of a historical tradition, it is a mistake to efface substantive features in our description. The former occurs by viewing a tradition at too low a level of generality, while the latter occurs by viewing a tradition at too high a level of generality."
Third is the Administrability Problem. Some complain that the text-history approach is too difficult to administer, despite that that's what judges and lawyers typically do – they analyze the words of the Constitution and the original understanding thereof. Alicea suggests that it's too soon after Bruen was decided to make sweeping judgments about the precedent's viability. Some issues don't have a clear answer, such as the number of laws that make a tradition, but that's the case with other tests as well. As the Court resolves more cases under Bruen, uncertainty will diminish. Not to mention that "ideologically-divergent judging in highly controversial cases is not a phenomenon unique to Bruen."
Finally, Alicea analyzes Bruen's rival, tiers of scrutiny. First, without Bruen's historical approach, courts decide for themselves whether an interest is compelling. "But where does the positive law grant judges the authority to answer such political questions in the realm of constitutional adjudication, and when did the people decide to allocate that authority to judges?" Judges are able to manipulate outcomes by how they frame the questions.
Second, the same problem arises when judges determine whether a regulation is sufficiently tailored to achieve a government interest. Recall Justice Breyer's quip in McDonald v. Chicago about how judges must resolve complex empirical issues. Once again, judges shouldn't determine public policy.
And third, use of tiers of scrutiny allows judges to do the balancing. By contrast, Step One invokes the presumption of protection for conduct within the Second Amendment's original semantic meaning, and Step Two allows only restrictions with proper historical analogues. "It adds insult to injury for judges to first create a new legal standard without basis in democratically enacted positive law and craft a standard that grants broad authority to themselves to 'usurp[] the people's right to make major policy choices.'" (Quoting Justice Kavanaugh's Rahimi concurrence.)
Alicea concludes that if critics are right that Bruen is incoherent and manipulable, its failure will reinforce tiers of scrutiny in other areas of constitutional adjudication, reverting to the kind of judge-empowering interest-balancing inquiry that originated with the Warren Court. "The alternative future is one in which Bruen marks the end of one era of constitutional law and the advent of another, one in which history-based methodologies increasingly displace those created before the rise of modern originalism."
* * *
The Court has now relisted two Second Amendment cases fifteen times, in this instance for its conference on Friday May 29. They include Ocean State Tactical v. Rhode Island, which concerns Rhode Island's magazine ban, and Snope v. Brown, which concerns Maryland's ban on semiautomatic rifles.
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Would be nice if Bruen got rid of scrutiny, but I won't hold my breath.
It is an asinine idea to adjudicate current laws based on what was or was not legal 250 years ago when the technology was vastly different. Judges are not historians. SCOTUS made up that test in Bruen out of nothing. Also note that the first line of 2A is "A well regulated militia...".
Article V, I believe, is the answer to your dreams.
On the other hand, if you believe your ideas should rule by fiat, Trump could use someone like you.
Just stop. "Well regulated" back then meant the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you define it as meaning now. It meant "regulars"; ie, regular people. NOT government regulation.
Using your logic about adjudicating current laws that meant something different 250 years ago: let's outlaw social media. I mean, the founding fathers couldn't have envisioned people using telephones to root for the overthrow of the government. If you want to spread news, stick to the printing press.
God, liberals are so painfully ignorant.
I Callahan, During his midnight ride, Paul Revere alerted the countryside that "the regulars are coming out." "Regulars" meant the British Army soldiers, not "regular people." To this day, "regular" still means soldiers, not "regular people." See 10 USC 7075.
I thought he meant they were just "Regular" and not Queer.
"Well regulated" has nothing to do with "regular people."
250 years ago the Founders had witnessed more revolution in technology than you have!!! Well regulated militia is a nominative absolute, a grammatical appendage that --unlike a participle in agreement with something --- does not affect the declarative sentence to which it is appended. And this goes back to Greek and Latin, where it is a Genitive Absolute or Ablative Absolute.
You should sue your history teacher and English teacher
It is asinine to think that a constitutional compromise can be overturned by mere statute regardless of how long ago that compromise was made. If you want to be able to pass any law you want, why bother having a constitution at all?
Well, of course, she doesn't want to have a constitution. Constitutions are highly inconvenient, in that changing them requires a formal procedure which is dependent on persuading the public to agree to the change.
When the changes you want are changes that could never get that agreement, either you give up, or stop treating the Constitution AS a constitution. And the left isn't big on giving up.
You're treating the Constitution like a statute.
That's not correct, legally. Hasn't been since basically the Founding.
Beats not treating it as binding law.
Brettlaw is not binding.
Neither is the Constitution if you or MolyGodiva get your way. You think you can just ritually recite, "the Constitution is not a statute", and suddenly it becomes as malleable as putty? It becomes legitimate to just say the meaning has changed, even though no amendment has taken place?
The whole damn POINT of writing a constitution down is to fix it's meaning until amended!
But we do understand, as I say, that having a constitution with a meaning that stays the same until amended is REALLY inconvenient, if you want changes that are too unpopular to get ratified as amendments.
Like dispensing with a pesky right that you think was a mistake.
re: "You're treating the Constitution like a statute."
I don't think I am but feel free to try to explain what you mean by that comment.
"Well-regulated" generally means something is organized, disciplined, and effectively managed according to established rules or practices. In the context of the Second Amendment, it historically referred to a militia that was well-trained, well-armed, and prepared for service.
yes - the right to maintain a regulated militia to the common defense
and the separate right of the individual to keep and bear arms for self defense. Two separate and distinct rights, both of which are protected by 2A
Asinine?
History and tradition often guide the Supreme Court in other contexts. See Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702, 710-719 (1997)
People define "a well-regulated militia" in various ways.
Just citing text only takes us so far.
Cowardly, depraved, degenerate concealed carriers keep telling folks that if concealed carry is allowed, then banning Open Carry is constitutional. They have been saying this ever since District of Columbia v. Heller said, "Likewise, in State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann. 489, 490 (1850), the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens had a right to carry arms openly: “This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations.”" And said, "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e. g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152-153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e. g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489-490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884)."
In the NYSRPA v. Bruen oral argument, Justice Kagan finally pressed the NRA lawyer, Paul Clement, to explain why Open Carry can be banned in favor of concealed carry.
Clement answered that Open Carry can be banned because people today are on a "different wavelength."
Fortunately, all nine justices in NYSRPA v. Bruen rejected Clement's "different wavelength doctrine of constitutional interpretation." Justice Thomas, in his NYSRPA v. Bruen majority opinion, expanded on Heller's citation to Nunn v. State, saying it was particularly instructive. The State of Georgia had banned the carrying of most handguns, openly and concealed. The Georgia high court upheld the ban on the evil practice of concealed carry and invalidated the ban on Open Carry.
Citing Bruen, the California Court of Appeals came to the same conclusion in a concealed carry appeal.
"These citations are ultimately unhelpful to Miller's situation because Bruen did not suggest that where a state bans both concealed and open carry (or all carry), the concealed carry provisions are unconstitutional. Rather, Bruen quoted a Georgia case explaining that to the extent a statute that prohibited concealed carry also prohibited open carry, it was the open carry provision that conflicted with the Constitution and was void. (Id. at p. [142 S.Ct. at p. 2147], quoting Nunn v. State (1846) 1 Ga. 243, 251.) This conclusion controls the outcome of this case." People v. Miller, 94 Cal. App. 5th 935, 946 (2023).
You end up with the odd situation a state can ban open carry, but not concealed, or vice versa, but not both at the same time.
As for The People being on different wavelengths, well, a core design principle of the Constitution was not allowing weasel power mongers to arrogate more power at their whim.
"Attitudes have changed" means you should attempt the deliberatively laborious amendment process. I mean, if The People have changed their attitude, it should be clear sailing, right? They can look at the proposal, and, if they judge it sound, approve it.
Also, "attitudes have changed" clearly is true for a balanced budget amendment, but these attitudes-have-changed lying weasels won't dare let that get out to the states.
We love democracy! We love attitudes changing as argument to change the Constitution sans amendment.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, until we don't.
It seems rather uncomplicated to me. People have the right to carry. If a state wants to regulate that right (not ban, but regulate) and believes that a particular mode of carry such as concealed OR open carry offends some sensibilities then they can regulate carry to the extent that you must use the preferred method.
Note they cannot ban BOTH open AND concealed carry in a divide and conquer approach claiming that each is separately offensive. That destroys the right. But to ban ONE OR the other is a typical regulatory measure that does not infringe on the RKBA.
the evil practice of concealed carry
Oh, grow a set. Because you think guns are "icky" doesn't make the practice of carrying one "evil." Hyperbole much?
I Callahan, there is an old saying sometimes attributed to Mark Twain that one should remain silent and thought the fool than to open his mouth and leave no doubt.
Nunn v. State said that concealed carry is evil. I agree. I don't think that guns are "icky." I am the first and only person to file a lawsuit seeking to enjoin California's bans on openly carrying loaded and unloaded rifles, shotguns, and handguns outside of the home, for the purpose of self-defense, and for other lawful purposes.
I Callahan, there is an old saying sometimes attributed to Mark Twain that one should remain silent and thought the fool than to open his mouth and leave no doubt.
If you subscribed to that admonishment you'd have stopped commenting years ago.
Eh, he doesn't think guns are icky, he just is a bit obsessive on the topic of open vs concealed carry.
Brett Bellmore, I despise cowardly, depraved, degenerate concealed carriers. It's a moral thing. Cowardly, depraved, degenerate concealed carriers are unable to comprehend morality. That's why they are cowardly, depraved, degenerate concealed carriers.
Bruen is hopelessly vague and the Roberts/Kavanaugh concurrence and in Rahimi the Court showed its cards and said that they really didn't mean what they said. It seems that Bruen is an artifice to get a moderate-right NRA-lite position on guns enshrined into constitutional law.
Heller/Bruen will end up being our side's Roe unless we stop issuing ipse dixits and apply principle to it instead of "oh noes, we can't let wife beaters have guns" fear infest the plain holdings of the cases.
If there's one lesson I've learned from arguing with living constitutionalists, it's that EVERYTHING is hopelessly vague if it means something you don't like.
"Heller/Bruen will end up being our side's Roe unless we stop issuing ipse dixits and apply principle to it instead of "oh noes, we can't let wife beaters have guns" fear infest the plain holdings of the cases."
Pretty much, but Rahimi was 8-1, so you can figure out how likely it is we stop that.
I don't disagree with that, but Bruen is still hopelessly vague even if we try to apply it without an anti-gun bias.
Say a client comes into the office and wants me to litigate a case that he should be allowed to carry a gun on a commercial airliner. Let's put aside that John Roberts would never allow that and do law. What does Bruen tell me to do? Look at history and tradition--and since there were no airplanes at the founding, I must analogize.
So what do I do? Look for statutes that prohibited carrying guns on railroads or passenger ships? Is the absence of any such laws conclusive evidence (Bruen says "relevant") that my client should be able to carry on a plane?
Do I look at "sensitive place" laws like legislative assemblies and polling places? Is an airplane analogous to a polling place? I wouldn't think so.
Where does Bruen tell me to go with that question and what result should I reach?
I agree that there will be modern circumstances that have no historical analog, but analogizing between aircraft and ships does seem perfectly reasonable. You might even note that aircraft were around for a very long while before anybody thought to ban firearms on them, not until the 1960's.
But it does seem pointless to complain about Bruen being vague, when we agree that even to the extent it isn't, the Court isn't really going to be following it.
On the subject of air travel and guns in the 1960s, I recommend The Skies Belong to Us: Love and Terror in the Golden Age of Hijacking, by Brendan Koerner. It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt. By the early 1970s people started getting hurt.
And you think people weren't being hurt on ships and stage coaches in the founding era?
What you're looking at is a changing view, largely on the part of government, as to the appropriate balance between an explicitly guaranteed constitutional right, and public safety. And a lot of what has been driving that shifting view of the appropriate balance is that the people doing the balancing didn't LIKE that liberty, wanted to minimize it.
So anywhere they could come up with an excuse for infringing it, they did.
the 9-11 Terrorists didn't have guns, alot of people got hurt when "They did something" (HT Rep Mulla Omar (D, MI))
The 9-11 terrorists were using an approach which was critically dependent on passengers having been trained to just let the hijackers do what they want, and worst case you'll just get a free trip to some exotic location. The moment people realized that the hijackers might want to just use the plane as a weapon to attack some location on the ground, (Part way through 9-11!) anybody who tried hijacking a plane ended up being attacked by the passengers and subdued.
There have been multiple hijacking attempts since 9-11, and they all tend to end pretty quickly with the passengers attacking the hijacker. As would have happened on 9-11 if people hadn't been told so often to just let them hijack the plane!
High school students in my area had a lockdown drill. They were told to passively wait to be shot. Some of them figured it would be better to throw things at the shooter. If a student is told to resist and dies it's the school's fault. If a student takes it lying down it's the shooter's fault.
And the judge will come back at me with a couple of things, not insignificant in my opinion:
1) Those modes of transportation are ground based. You can simply throw a rabble rouser off the coach. An airplane is 35,000 feet in the air. Are we unable to take those differences into account?
2) The fact that airline travel was unregulated until it was regulated is unsurprising. The people start out with no regulations until problems arise. Then they regulate those problems. Must the government pass a regulation on day one of new event X lest they be forever barred from regulating it?
For example, we went almost 100 years in cars before New York passed the first seat belt law in 1984. Does that mean that there can be no seat belt laws since we did just fine without them for all of those years?
You may object that going without a seat belt is not a fundamental right, but that just begs the question. Assuming a robust right to KBA, why can't the government ban them on planes? They can do legislative assemblies but not planes?
Halbrook's book on the history of gun rights has a case where a person was waving the gun in a threatening manner and was thus barred from carrying a gun. The case was mid 1700's. Thus, there is historical events that justified denying the gun ownership or gun carry for individuals behaving in certain manner during colonial times/pre ratification times. As such, Rahimi should be barred from gun possession based due to behavior.
The question is whether he was afforded proper due process to establish that he should not be in possession of a gun.
If the DVP hearing in Rahimi required a finding that he brandished a gun in an offensive manner then I might agree with you. But the finding was one that did not require the presentation of a gun, but disarmed him nonetheless.
It is as if Rahimi walked into the prohibition by accident and the court said that was good enough. Might as well had a hearing to see if his name started with "R" and since it did, and he pulled a gun, the law is valid. It does not follow.
"But if this "most thoroughgoing attempt by the Court to do originalism in the area of constitutional rights" fails, "it calls into question originalism's capacity to transition from a critical posture to a governing one, at least in the rights space.""
Bruen has already failed in Rahimi. The rest of the Court lacked the courage of Thomas' convictions, and refused to genuinely apply Bruen's standard. They'll manipulate levels of generality to arrive at a conclusion they're comfortable with in any given case, regardless of the historical record.
Here is an ugly abomination of a sentence !!
' But if this "most thoroughgoing attempt by the Court to do originalism in the area of constitutional rights" fails, "it calls into question originalism's capacity to transition from a critical posture to a governing one, at least in the rights space."
I could red-pen about 7 major grammatical FAILS
cant, argot, jargon, lingo, slang just wretched. Critical posture in the rights space ... ugliness on stilts
Can't argue with that. But I was still able to get past all that to what he meant.
If the Court can't bring itself to actually PRACTICE originalism, in cases where they've already gone into excruciating detail about how it's done, just because the outcome in a particular case upsets their modern sensibilities a bit, then originalism as a judicial mode, rather than just a mode of criticism, is dead. Because they'll only engage in originalist reasoning when doing so is redundant, never when it determines the outcome.
And that's where I think we are now, frankly: They will pretend to engage in originalism for public consumption, (But even Stevens did that much!) but it will never be allowed to dictate the outcome of a case, because they're simply not going to let "The Constitution actually means this according to original understanding" force them to adopt any position they're uncomfortable with.
So, if we want to predict the outcomes of cases, we need to know their comfort zones, not their interpretive approach, because whatever they claim to be doing, they're actually just arriving at a conclusion they like, and rationalizing it afterwards.
The other side would say that we practice selective originalism BECAUSE it gives us the results we like. Gays, guns, abortion--all of them come down on our side when we look at what the founding fathers did.
We are just charlatans of a different breed but instead of being honest with our bias, we clothe it in principle.
I used to disagree with that until I see things like Rahimi.
My perspective on this is that since at least the FDR administration, judges, and especially Supreme court justices, have been chosen for their ability to rationalize what the federal government wants to do. You can't run a leviathan government with a limited government constitution, if you have a judiciary that isn't made up of charlatans.
People honest and principled enough to practice principled originalism won't be nominated the the bench in the first place, let alone to the Supreme court. It doesn't mean they don't exist, but you'll never see them on the Court.
Thomas is something of an outlier here, the ordeal they put him through during his confirmation hearings basically purged him of any interest he'd had in pleasing people, so he just rules as his principled dictate even if it means he's on the wrong end of 8-1 decisions.
1. You have any proof of your theory for how judges are chosen other that Brettlaw isn't being instantiated?
2. You should look into what Hobbes meant by leviathan. You're just using it to mean 'big and scary.' That's wrong.
3. Your take that Thomas' jurisprudents flows from his anger at his nomination is a pretty big slam on Thomas.
1. You want to pretend that "The Switch in time that saved Nine" never happened, I gather. That there was interpretive continuity before, through, and after the FDR administration. That is, frankly, nuts: Constitution interpretation at the Supreme court changed wildly in favor of more powerful government, mostly as a result of FDR's nominations to the Court, and a huge range of what the federal government today does would have been starkly unconstitutional under pre-New deal understandings of the limits of federal power.
2. Possibly fair.
3. Yeah, it is. I think if he'd had a conventional nomination hearing, he'd probably be about as much a squish as the rest. What they put him through may have steeled his spine, but it also left him a bitter, angry man, who doesn't care what people think even when he should, like with the ethics complaints.
1. Scholarship differs as to what happened there.
2. Read your Baude. I may not agree, but he believes the Warren Court was a discontinuity.
3. Changes in the prevailing judicial philosophy over time does not establish a nearly 90 year long conspiracy to hire judges who don't agree with Brett Bellmore's Constitution.
There is not platonic truth we moved away from; there are lots of reasons why culture, including legal culture, changes.
4. I think Thomas's worldview is crazy and bad for America. I find in interviews he seethes with resentment against liberals. He takes money in amounts and with failures to report that evince a contempt for any oversight, like he's some aristocrat. And, most importantly to me, his contempt for precedent means he's failing to do the job of a judge, as the institution now and founders back then intended.
Somehow for all that I think Thomas is more of a professional than you do. His opinions do not show signs of being driven by his resentment. His wife seems to have come by her crazy nonsense honestly, why not him?
Maybe you're right and the hearings broke his desire for collegiality or caring about others and that's why he takes the positions he does. But absent telepathy, I see no reason to make that negative assumption about him.
And here's my favorite primer on Hobbes:
https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/history-of-ideas/hobbes
YOu think you got past it !! You see what he meant but the Constitution about which he speaks is 'unclear" ??????????????
The original understanding was not the work of those with no knowledge of history or of the developments of progress. Things are different now but unalienable rights are unalienable. I don't argue with anyone that say what was once a right is not now (in some form) also a right
“the government must demonstrate that the regulation is consistent with the Nation’s historical tradition.” Thomas in Bruen.
Does Mr Volokh not see that 'unalienable principles' can't survive any other approach ? This is like Lincoln , who clearly agrees with Thomas, when he said that the Founders put slavery on the path to eventual extinction. They couldn't see the future but they knew that if future law were consistent with the Nation's historical tradition it could not survive.
IN the most rigorous Catholic Bible tradition of interpretation this is the exact method. You can read An essay on the development of Christian doctrine. John Henry Newman and see Thomas's thinking !!!
"Does Mr Volokh not see that...."
This blog post is by Stephen Halbrook. How does Prof. Volokh enter here?
Bruen said that "the government must demonstrate that the regulation is consistent with this Nation’s historical tradition of firearm regulation." Roberts stealthy downgraded this in Rahimi:
"As we explained in Bruen, the appropriate analysis involves considering whether the challenged regulation is consistent with the principles that underpin our regulatory tradition."
It now must only be consistent with the "principles that underpin our regulatory tradition." Roberts did not acknowledge that he changed the test, but merely cited Bruen in an attempt to fool the reader into thinking that's what Bruen said all along.
As the late great Mao Tse Tung said, “Power comes from the barrel of a gun”
The Second Amendment is there to protect all the others, just look at what the Government does WITH(breaking my “No All Caps” rule) a mostly armed populace, can you imagine what they’d do with an unarmed one.
And this whole (redacted) about “unattended” guns, how am I supposed to carry 65 guns instead of my usual 2?
Ever wonder why Marshall Dylan didn’t just arrest the various bad guys who wandered into Dodge for “Felon in possession”??? Because it wasn’t against the law in the 1880’s, only “Gun Control” there was was directed at the freed Slaves and various immigrant groups (who some 150 years later are finally figuring out who it is (redacted) them. “45/47” carried border counties in Texas (with May-He-Ko, not Just the Oklahoma ones)for the Repubiclowns for the first time in a 100 years
Marshall Dylan? Marshall Bob Dylan?
I think you meant Marshall Matt Dillon.
Matt Dillon is a fictional character featured on both the radio and television versions of Gunsmoke. He is the U.S. Marshal of Dodge City, Kansas, who works to preserve law and order in the western frontier of the 1870s.
I know, I know, I've seen almost every one of the original 30 minute "Gunsmokes" and "A Complete Unknown" (much better with the German dubbing)
I was making a funny, a knee slapper, a pun, a punny, and the thought of a Marshall Bob Dylan is pretty funny (not as funny as his "Jews for Jesus" phase) as is imagining James Arness playing the Dylan role
I don't think that's correct. My old man, a New Yorker, always told me that gun control started in the West.
This, from Smithsonian Magazine:
"The laws of Tombstone at the time [1881] required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office. (Residents of many famed cattle towns, such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood, had similar restrictions.)"
About NYC:
"The Sullivan Act was a gun control law in New York state that took effect in 1911.[1][2] The NY state law requires licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Private possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, and carrying them in public is a felony. The law was the subject of controversy regarding both its selective enforcement[3] and the licensing bribery schemes it enabled.[4] The act was named for its primary legislative sponsor, state senator Timothy Sullivan, a Tammany Hall Democrat."
"Lawman Bat Masterson, a friend of Sullivan's, criticized the law as "obnoxious" and said that he questioned Sullivan's mental state of mind over the law."
(wikipedia)
(Masterson was a boxing referee, and was disarmed in NYC under the Sullivan Act.)
The 2nd Amendment was about preventing the newly created federal government from disarming the local militias. The British has disarmed the militias by disarming the individual people.
It has nothing to do with personal self defense and cramming this square peg in a round hole is pretty typical legal sophistry.
It's why we can't have nice things.
If the Founders wanted to limit the 2A to protection of state militias, they clearly knew how to write such a clause. They didn't.
We also have all the external writings of the Founders before, during and shortly after the drafting of the 2A explaining what they actually meant. To the best of my knowledge, precisely none of those writings support your cramped interpretation of the 2A.
Finally, we have a century of judicial history that there was no such limitation on the 2A. That interpretation was only invented in the early 20th century and is the example of legal sophistry, not the reversion from that interpretation.
Yes, of course it had nothing to do with self defense, which is about as classic an example of an unenumerated 9th amendment right as you could produce. It was about securing the militia system against federal interference.
It did so not by specifically protecting the militia, but by protecting the right of the People from which the militia would be drawn, to own and carry arms. This was deliberate: If the right were protected only for militia members, the right would cease to serve any purpose were the militia discontinued, and you'd open the door to turning the militia, (Which is the People armed.) into a 'select' militia, functionally indistinguishable from a standing army.
By protecting instead the right of the People themselves, regardless of whether they were actually serving in a militia, you guaranteed a pool of armed people from which a militia could be drawn, even if the militia system had been deliberately discontinued.
But once you've guaranteed an unqualified right of the people, not the militia, to keep and bear arms, those arms are available to be used for any lawful purpose, and self defense is about as lawful a purpose for arms as you could ask. So there IS some relevance.
There are two big reasons that Heller and Bruen talk about the self defense aspect.
The first, innocently, is that the parties involved were asserting their right to keep and bear arms in the context of self defense. And since service in the militia isn't a right, in what other context COULD they assert it?
The second, less innocent reason, is that the Court is really nervous about the militia aspect of the 2nd amendment, both because the government HAS largely abandoned the militia system, and because of its revolutionary implications, the right being guaranteed against the government because the militia and the government might actually be at odds.
Whatever it "was about," a general understanding existed that people had a right to own weapons for self-defense. The right could be expressed in many ways, including a separate common law right. Even if not expressed as a Second Amendment right, it would be a type of "liberty" that the courts would have to interpret.
The ultimate problem is determining the reach of such a right & proper regulation. For instance, it was strongest in your home at the farm. OTOH, if you lived in a crowded urban area, it could be much more restricted. Likewise, more regulations were allowed in public places and in other contexts.
But the regulations they allowed back then were much less onerous than you see today. The most restrictive ones had to do with storage of powder, as it was an explosive hazard, unlike today's ammo.
"For instance, it was strongest in your home at the farm. OTOH, if you lived in a crowded urban area, it could be much more restricted."
What founding era urban arms restrictions are the best example of that?
(and in modern times, I have lived in high crime urban areas where I was a lot more interested in bearing arms than in a lot of rural areas (but perhaps not all, e.g. fairly frequent bear encounters at our cabin make carry a pretty universal thing in that vicinity))
I think a good argument can be made that the original understanding provided a limited reach to the Second Amendment.
A lot of scholarship covered the ground. The concern was federal control of state militia, which, like juries, were governmental bodies. Juries were still fundamentally important to the Framers.
There is a lot of division in the scholarship. I have read books from a variety of viewpoints. Various results can be reached using various arguments. On some basic level, it's a moot point.
Over time, there was a broad understanding that the Second Amendment protected an individual rights view. That won out in the Supreme Court. If not the Second Amendment, the individual rights view could be seen as arising from multiple other constitutional provisions.
An understanding was reached that people have a right to own weapons. The real debate is over the reach of appropriate regulations.
The final answer requires various types of analysis, including weighing state interests vs. individual rights. "Read the preamble" doesn't settle the question.
"The concern was federal control of state militia"
The numerous state constitution analogues to the 2A seem to point to a reluctance for governments at any level being able to disarm the populace.
Roughly half of the contemporary state constitutions had language similar to Pennsylvania: " That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state;"
That is to say, they explicitly included self defense in the right.
As I said above, the right to self defense is about as good a candidate for an unenumerated 9th amendment right as there is, and once you have the right to be armed, that you could use those arms for self defense was considered obvious.
"that you could use those arms for self defense was considered obvious."
Moreover, the converse - the modern notion that the best self defense is using a cell phone to call 911 and having a radio dispatched patrol car arrive in a few minutes - might seem a bit less optimal before phones, 911, radios, cars, and indeed even organized police forces.
Heh. Not that responses today are guaranteed. Fifteen or so years ago my FiL and I were in a rural Montana county and had a (fortunately minor) reason to contact the local police dispatch center (which did double duty as the sheriff's kitchen) and talk to the on duty dispatcher (who doubled as the sheriff's wife) who told us she was ever so sorry, the sheriff would have gladly helped, but he was away to the state capitol on an overnight trip. In fairness, since we were on a paved road in summer, if it had been an axe murder the State Patrol could have probably been there within an hour or two; those folks have pretty fast cars.
"Moreover, the converse - the modern notion that the best self defense is using a cell phone to call 911 and having a radio dispatched patrol car arrive in a few minutes - might seem a bit less optimal before phones, 911, radios, cars, and indeed even organized police forces."
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
I think this is part of the reason that each side talks past each other. The founders were not concerned with the government disarming individuals for crime prevention purposes. They were particularly concerned with their recent experience with the British.
It was simply unfathomable at the time that you would tell an individual he couldn't carry arms because "only the police" should carry guns. That wasn't even on the political radar at the time.
As such, any attempt to shoehorn the 2A into the personal RKBA must fail. I agree with you in that it is a preexisting right, a P or I of citizenship, substantive due process, or the 9A-- there is a bunch of support there.
But the principles problem is that we are trying to use the 2A for a purpose that was never intended.
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