The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Odds Are Against TikTok at the Supreme Court
It seems unlikely that five Justices will buy TikTok's First Amendment arguments when neither Judge Douglas Ginsburg nor Judge Neomi Rao nor Chief Judge Sri Srinivasan did so.
The Supreme Court's decision to hear the TikTok divestment statute case is better for TikTok than the alternative: The D.C. Circuit had upheld the statute, and now TikTok has a chance to try to reverse that.
But it's not a high chance, I think, chiefly because the D.C. Circuit opinions on the First Amendment were detailed and careful, and were written by a highly respected and ideologically mixed group of judges: Douglas Ginsburg, a Reagan appointee; Sri Srinivasan, an Obama appointee; and Neomi Rao, a Trump appointee. Srinivasan took a different approach on the First Amendment issue than did Ginsburg and Rao, but he reached the same result: All three voted to uphold the law.
It seems to me a good bet that most of the Supreme Court Justices will take a view similar to either Ginsburg's and Rao's or Srinivasan's. It's hard to identify up front any Justices who, as a matter of their general jurisprudence or of their particular First Amendment views, are likely to be quite different than all three of the D.C. Circuit judges. There are certainly highly plausible arguments against the law, as well as in favor. It just seems unlikely to me that those arguments will persuade five Justices when they persuaded neither Ginsburg nor Srinivasan nor Rao.
To be sure, sometimes this rule of thumb doesn't work well. Sometimes, for instance, even a unanimous lower court decision by an ideologically mixed and broadly respected panel of judges might be based on Supreme Court precedent that the lower court had to follow but that the Supreme Court may overrule. But that seems unlikely here.
Likewise, sometimes the Court's decision to consider a case is a signal that the Court finds something wrong with the decision below—or else why not just leave the lower court decision standing? But I think the answer to this "or else" question is likely just that this is an important, high-profile case raising important constitutional questions. It seems to me likely that the Justices thought an issue of this significance ought to be resolved by the highest court in the land, not by an intermediate appellate court.
Of course, I may be wrong; perhaps the Court's decision to hear the matter did indeed flow from at least four Justices' skepticism about the D.C. Circuit decision. (It takes four Justices of the nine to agree to hear a matter.) And of course while the current Justices loosely fit into the same ideological wings as the three judges on the D.C. Circuit panel, they of course have their own views which may well differ from fellow conservatives' or liberals' views. But if I had to bet on the case, I'd pretty confidently bet on the government.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Imagine if Stalin had set up something like this in December of 1949 as the conflict in Korea was building, much as one in Taiwan is building now.
What would have happened to the career of any lawyer who defended StalinTock? Can you imagine any court saying that Stalin had First Amendment rights?
Read Lamont v. Postmaster General, 381 U.S. 301 (1965) you dip: American citizens have the First Amendment right to read foreign communist propaganda.
The case does not extend nearly as far as permitting an agent of a foreign government to own a business in the US.
My folks had a subscription to Soviet Life (or whatever it was called) in the early 1960s. I remember being fascinated by pictures from a foreign country, while also not believing a word of the text; it had an air of lies about it. And it might not have been a subscription; they might have just gotten hold of one or two copies and my kid brain assumed it was a subscription.
At any rate, anyone with half a brain gets more laughs from government propaganda than brainwashing.
I said it earlier in another thread. I'd rather the Chinese control TIkTok than the ideological Marxists operating in Silicon Valley.
Is there a difference?
Yes. The ChiComs are more honest about their intentions.
It's not a First Amendment case. It's a foreign control of a media corporation case. Which explains why the First Amendment argument has failed at every level to date.
Agreed. People keep trying to argue that it's about the First Amendment rights of the US user base. But I don't see how the user base is harmed by a compelled change of ownership.
I don't see how they're much helped by it either but legislatures are allowed to pass stupid laws. I don't like it but the alternative (unconstrained judicial second-guessing) is worse.
There's another alternative: butt out for being none of the government's business.
But is IS the gov't business.
That's the whole "Controlled by a foreign adversary" part.
Are you just really stupid, not to understand that?
Are you really too stupid to understand what a declaration of war is? Absent that, they are not an adversary.
Government is permitted to have a wide variety of foreign relationships. There is no two-category sraitjacket requiring choosing between either “best buds” or “worst enemies.” There are a lot of possible options in between. And the Constitution permits them. The United States has had adversarial relationships short of war since its founding.
Actually, dumbshit, "adversary" and "enemy at time of declared war" are NOT in fact equal statements.
But nice try
You're assuming, without evidence, that a change in ownership won't lead to censorship policies or other changes that will impact the customer base.
You appear to be assuming, without evidence, that the CCP does not have censorship policies on TikToc right now that impact the customer base.
Which is a really stupid assumption on your part, i must say
You "must" say, eh? You appear to be under the control of some nefarious schemer. Too bad you will never enjoy free will.
I didn't assume that at all. But a change in policies, whether "free" or not, still impacts the customers.
None of the people bitching about the CCP being forced to sell TikToc seemed to care at all about the Biden Admin forcing censorship policies on social media companies
And SCOTUS didn't seem to care, either
So it's a bit late in the day to be worrying about that now
"But I don't see how the user base is harmed by a compelled change of ownership."
Devil's advocate: how is a subscriber to American Rifleman harmed by transferring ownership from the NRA to the Million Mom March?
What if I, as an American citizen, want to get my news straight from the Kremlin or Beijing?
The NRA is an American organization, with 1st Amendment rights
The CCP is not
I am a human being with human rights. You appear to assume you have the right to tell everyone else what they can do.
That's nice
You don't have a "human right" to have your speech carried on and manipulated by a company controlled by the CCP
Too bad, so sad
Congress shall make no law...
But the Biden Admin can "jawbone" companies into censorship, and that's just fine?
yeah, GFY
I am not the Court watcher that Prof. Volokh and the bloggers here are, but I certainly agree with his prediction. Though, like many, I am surprised four justices agreed to hear this case. Why? The appellate court opinion (both the majority and concurrence) is well written and thorough. I'm honestly not sure which justices would have an issue with any particular part. Would they take a case just to summarily affirm it? I see no "important questions" that seem likely to recur very often. The facts seem peculiar to this case. I just really don't know what the Court's game is here.
I can certainly agree that Judges Ginsburg, Srinivasan, and Rao are a respected and diverse group of judges, but I guess I also found the majority’s incarnation of strict scrutiny rather different from how I usually see it applied by the Supreme Court. (E.g., the government's purported justifications for the forced-sale-or-ban struck me as either speculative or lacking meaningful specificity, and the court seemed pretty uninterested in probing their weaknesses. And although I'm not an expert on the topic, the Chinese propaganda justification also struck me as difficult to reconcile with Lamont v. Postmaster General.)
Setting aside how the justices are likely to rule, I was curious if you had any concerns about how the DC Circuit applied that strict scrutiny analysis?
In a prior post titled “Protecting Speech Against Governments” ( https://reason.com/volokh/2024/12/06/protecting-speech-against-governments/ ), you mentioned that - rightly or wrongly - the heart of the DC Circuit’s majority argument was its conclusion that the ban could be conceptualized as serving - rather than clashing with - the First Amendment. (I.e., The court reasoned that since the First Amendment doesn’t permit Congress or state governments to influence editorial control over social media, a foreign government shouldn’t be allowed to either. Hence, a risk that China might exert such control over TikTok is sufficient to justify the ban.)
I guess this struck me as a pretty novel conception of the First Amendment not previously endorsed by the Supreme Court. (At least to my knowledge - perhaps I'm missing something.) I was curious if you found it persuasive, and perhaps also if you think the Court is likely to adopt it.
Recognizing your comment is directed to Professor Volokh, I’ll mention I don’t find it persuasive. The reason is that our government could just as easily prohibit control of American media by companies that protect free soeech rights. Our government’s power to act arises solely from the fact that the entities are foreign, not whether judges like them or not. So for a judge to say this is Ok because the foreign government involved is bad risks either the judiciary intruding on foreign policy by imposing its own opinions about foreign governments’ moral worth (you can do this for governments we judges think “bad” but not governments we judges think “good”), or it risks whitewashing realpolitik American foreign policy which might be based on tit-for-tat retaliation etc. with a bogus patina of high moral principle, the way Stalin’s propagandists used to ground his every double-cross in the phraseology of Marxist theory (and George Orwell satirized in Animal Farm). Either way, I think its an improper rationale. It’s within Congress’ foreign policy and international commerce powers, wise or unwise, moral or immoral, based on high moral principle or realpolitik strategems. And judges should leave it at that.
I suspect a majority of the Court will build on Agency for International Development vs. Alliance for Open Society and clarify that the case controls the outcome of this one. Foreign government-controlled entities have no First Amendment rights. And while Americans have a First Amendment right to receive foreign propaganda sent to them directly from foreign governments or entities, this does not give foreign governments or entities a derivative right to own or control American companies or corporations.
The problem is that one of the governmental interests found to support this law was the fact that people were receiving foreign propaganda.
And?
How far would you extend the Lamont v. Postmaster General principle? Would you say the United States can’t go to war with a foreign country because doing so it would disrupt the mails and hence interfere with Americans right to receive foreign propaganda? Would courts strike down a declaration of war as impoper if was motivated in part by stopping foreign propaganda from reaching US citizens?
If American citizens’ First Amendment rights trump general foreign policy powers, why don’t they also trump the war power? And if they don’t trump the war power, why should they trump other foreign policy powers?
It seems to me that the better reconciliation is to treat Lamont as very limited, and not implyimg a whole series of limitations on how the United States can relate to foreign powers. Lamont addressed a law directec solely to US citizens. It held that If the country sends mail to the post office, American citizens can pick it up. But Lamont doesn’t even interfere with the United States’ right to prevent mail from entering the country! It doesn’t prevent the US government from boycotting the country in whole or in part, including not extending its postal service to it or not letting it or its citizens own US corporations. It addresses only prohibitions directed at US citizens, at the destination, not laws directed at foreign countries, citizens, and entities, at the source.
That is, Lamont establishes that American citizens WHO RECEIVE MAIL have a right to pick it up from the post offices. But it doesn’t establish any limitation on the American government’s power to prevent foreign powers from SENDing mail in the first place. In prohibiting foreign powers from sending mail, the federal government is regulating foreign powers, not American citizens.
Lamont only applies to laws that actually regulate American citizens. It is triggered only once mail reaches the recipient’s post office. If it is never sent in the first place, Lamont is irrelevant. So the US Government can prohibit foreign powers from sending mail without triggering Lamont.
Can anyone speculate on why SCOTUS would take the case and not just let the lower court rulings stand?