Arrests at Stanford for Trespass and Vandalism

From today's statement by Stanford President Richard Saller and Provost Jenny Martinez; Newsweek (Jesus Mesa) reports that the graffiti include "FUCK AMERIKKKA," "DE@ATH 2ISR@HELL," "Kill cops," and "PIGS TASTE BEST DEDAD":

Dear Stanford community,

We are appalled and deeply saddened by the actions that occurred on our campus earlier today.

As you know from earlier alerts that were sent out, a group of protesters broke into and occupied Building 10 early this morning until they were arrested and removed by law enforcement. A public safety officer was injured by protesters as part of the response to the occupation.

In addition to damage done inside the building, protesters committed extensive graffiti vandalism on the sandstone buildings and columns of the Main Quad this morning. This graffiti conveys vile and hateful sentiments that we condemn in the strongest terms. Whether the graffiti was created by members of the Stanford community or outsiders, we expect that the vast majority of our community joins us in rejecting this assault on our campus.

Thirteen individuals were arrested inside Building 10 this morning. In addition to going through the law enforcement process, any arrested individuals who are students will be immediately suspended. Any who are seniors will not be allowed to graduate. These actions are necessary based on the public safety threat posed to our campus community.

The Department of Public Safety is continuing to investigate all of the unlawful actions that occurred on our campus this morning. We encourage you to reach out to DPS at [phone] with any information you may have.

The university also has removed the encampment at White Plaza. As you know, the encampment has violated a number of university policies since its installation. While students have been sent to the Office of Community Standards disciplinary process for those policy violations, until today we have allowed the encampment to remain.

The situation on campus has now crossed the line from peaceful protest to actions that threaten the safety of our community. This began with the recent attempted occupation of Building 570 and has now escalated into today's deeply unfortunate events. In the interest of public safety, the encampment has been removed.

There continue to be many ways for members of our community to engage in the peaceful expression of diverse viewpoints on important global issues, in a manner consistent with our university policies. We value that continued peaceful and reasoned debate but forcefully condemn any actions like those that were taken today.

Comments

[dwshelf]

Well, good.

[Jerry B.]

Hope no fire extinguishers were injured during the protest.

[MatthewSlyfield]

He vandalized my fire extinguisher by headbutting it.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It sounds like some of the protesters are no better than the people whose conduct they are protesting. Fewer casualties and war crimes, of course, but that doesn't redeem boorish, unlawful, counterproductive, stupid conduct.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"the people whose conduct they are protesting"

I wasn't aware they were doing a sit-in at the Israeli embassy. I had been under the impression they were targeting their protest at a university in the United States.

[John F. Carr]

There was a protest at the consulate in San Francisco this week. The article I read did not say that there was or was not any overlap in membership of the two groups of protesters.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I sensed they were protesting the conduct of a bunch of violent, superstition-addled, bigoted, right-wing belligerents afflicting Palestinians (Gaza and perhaps West Bank).

[kkoshkin]

Now, do Gaza and its governing body.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Hamas is terrible. So are the war criminals killing thousands of civilians and leveling entire communities as part of a plan to steal land and displace a people consequent to selfishness and bigotry.

[Frank Drackman]

Enough about Ham-Ass, let's talk about the Jews.

[Bored Lawyer]

RAK believes the Jews are special. They are the only ones who are not permitted to defend themselves. An odd way to define "Chosen" but there you are.

[Scooter]

Apparently, the University isn't 'Judenfrei' enough to suit Kirkland and his fellow brown-shirts.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

People are entitled to defend themselves. They are not entitled to conduct terrorism in the West Bank or to engage in war crimes in Gaza. I especially dislike violent wrongdoers who are bigoted, superstitious, corrupt, right-wing criminals; Netanyahu, Ben Givr and Smotrich check all of those boxes.

You conservative assholes try to ignore the point that many of those who oppose the unlawful, disgusting right-wing belligerence of Israel's current government are Jewish.

Disdaining Israel's Likud assholes isn't antisemitism; it is common decency.

[Frank Drackman]

Who died and made you King of Anti-Semitism? Oh, Hey-Zeuss? Now who's the "Klinger"?

Frank

[Area Man]

So, you sensed they were protesting Hamas, the PLO, and Iran?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

They are protesting the Israelis who will face a reckoning when America stops supporting a rogue, bigoted, war-crimey right-wing military and government.

Get those cheeseburgers, seafood dishes, and candied bacon strips ready!

[Frank Drackman]

Ready? for who? I love a good Cheeseburger, and when they draw my blood I test + for Famer John's. Just because I'm a Hebrew doesn't mean I have to be crazy, and anyway, those dietary laws are supposed to apply to you Hey-Zeuss worshipers also.

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

"PIGS TASTE BEST DEDAD"

Am I the only one noticing that these people don't know how to spell? There are some words you kinda expect, but "dedad"?!?

HOW do you come up with that????

[John F. Carr]

Romanes eunt domus!

[Both Sides]

Such a great scene. . . .

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Illiteracy (random capitalization, misspelling, botched sentences, misuse of terms such as POTUS, etc.) has become depressingly common among some people.

[Frank Drackman]

Jame way Jesse Smollett couldn't spell the N-word. Or that stupid Nascar driver mistook a Garage Door pull down rope for a noose.

[Estragon]

“Am I the only one noticing that these people don’t know how to spell?”

Yes, Ed— you were the only one! You’ll go far in life with such a keen eye

[Kleppe]

More untreated mental illness on parade.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Are you referring to the Rev's comment?

That's pretty funny.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Is this the protest where they invaded a science building and made the scientists nervous because of all the research and delicate equipment?

[Longtobefree]

Heinlein wrote a good story about a small group of scientists left undiscovered after Japan took over America.
They weren't nervous at all.

(Sixth Column - check it out)

[Scooter]

To pick a nit, they were Chinese.

But, it is an excellent book!

[Longtobefree]

Oh, well.
I was young then - - - - - - - - -

[Don Nico]

"made the scientists nervous because of all the research and delicate equipment"
This is a new one by the same hooligan element of Hamas sympathizers

[The Margrave of Azilia]

?

[Don Nico]

What are you puzzled about. There were two separate events. This more recent one dared the Stanford President to take stronger action.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Got it.

[Mr. Bumble]

"Thirteen individuals were arrested inside Building 10 this morning. In addition to going through the law enforcement process, any arrested individuals who are students will be immediately suspended."
How about expelled? And, if they are here on student visas deported, immediately.

[John F. Carr]

Based on a quick look at DHS pages, when a student visa becomes invalid the main enforcement mechanism is denial of re-entry. Otherwise the former student is one of the possibly millions of people here in violation of immigration law. Agents could investigate if they didn't have better things to do.

[Rossami]

Suspensions can be immediate because they are temporary. Expulsions require investigation and due process. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. They probably deserve expulsion but they definitely deserve all the appropriate process protections before you get there.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Respectfully, I think you are confusing this with interim sanctions which is what I think they are referring to when they say "immediately suspended."

Interim sanction is punishment now, trial later.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

"They probably deserve expulsion but they definitely deserve all the appropriate process protections before you get there."

Much like Israel will deserve the predictable consequences when America stops providing the skirts Israel has been hiding behind for decades?

I would expect the International Court of Justice would provide appropriate process protections for Netanyahu, Hamas leaders, and the like, but I wonder whether Israel's military opponents would consider much process to be due after (1) observing Israel's conduct in the West Bank and Gaza and (2) learning that the United States will no longer provide military, intelligerence, or political backup to Israel.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Fuck You Kirkland!

Every time I think you MIGHT have something worthwhile to say, you don't,

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It's Israel's right-wing international pariahs who are fucked, clingers.

Their fuck-up seems existential. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of violent, superstition-addled, bigoted, parasitic right-wingers.

[Frank Drackman]

Net & Yahoo has more character in one of his pubic hairs than dreamt of in your philosophy.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The difference between suspension and expulsion is rapidly vanishing -- increasingly a suspended student must reapply for admission (with no guarantee of re admittance) while an expelled student could always reapply.

As to student visas, a suspension itself revokes the student visa -- that's why MIT backed down on suspending students last fall. Most International students take a summer class or something to justify being here in the summer, and if Stanford reports them as suspended to the INS (like they are supposed to), they are supposed to go home.

[John F. Carr]

Students who lose visa status are supposed to depart immediately, whatever that means. Students on an F visa (not an M visa) who finish early are granted 15 days to depart. So immediately means faster than 15 days. In theory.

In reality buying a ticket home on the next flight can be quite expensive and possibly beyond the means of a college student. I helped somebody who was trying to get to China ASAP for a family emergency. She was looking at a web site that wanted to charge her like $8,000 to get her there on the next flight (with a few stops). I pointed her to a site that wanted less than $2,000 (with a few stops). Limited ticket availability may have been responsible for the price difference. When you are buying a few weeks out the prices should be more consistent. The students probably had a return flight booked for some time far in the future.

Does E-Verify update quickly these days? It used to be very slow.

[jimc5499]

So what about those who are NOT students?

[Don Nico]

They can look forward to jail time.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Maybe they can share cells with Trump and Netanyahu.

Who would be cellblock president?

[Frank Drackman]

Probably you, Jerry.

[Bwaaah]

Do they seriously prosecute property crimes in that jurisdiction?

In New York City, there would be little chance.

[Don Nico]

I have no idea what might be considered proper penalties in Palo Alto for misdemeanor trespass and vandalism. We'll see if and when Stanford presses charges.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Not in Massachusetts....

[John F. Carr]

Today is the last day of classes according to Stanford's online calendar. Finals begin Friday.

[Commenter_XY]

Perhaps one question on the final exam will be related to appropriate behavior one should exhibit while in a building.

[Dr. Ed 2]

One can only imagine what Leland Stanford would think of this...

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Another question could involve the menu with which one should celebrate the demise of a bigoted, superstition-ridden, violent, right-wing government and nation?

(Spoiler: Bacon cheeseburger, shrimp cocktail, crabmeat Hoelzel, candied bacon. Additional suggestions welcome!)

[Commenter_XY]

Arthur, are you following the Freedom Party of Austria too?! Really? = that right wing government and nation

Bless your heart. 🙂

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I neither know nor care much about the Freedom Party of Austria.

If they are right-wing assholes -- bigoted, violent, superstitious jerks -- hope they fail spectacularly, though.

[Frank Drackman]

Like your Butt Buddy Joe Paterno?

[Drewski]

And Kirk again admits he hates Israelis not for their nation but because they're Jews. Dietary laws are observed worldwide and have nothing to do with politics. Mocking them that way is the moral equivalent of blackface.

[Bwaaah]

When is it NOT appropriate to paint obscenities on the school walls?
1) When innocent Gazans are killed
2) When innocent Israelis are held hostage
3) F_ck the police and their white supremacist Jew handlers
4) Donald Trump

[Brett Bellmore]

"When is it NOT appropriate to paint obscenities on the school walls?"

Always.

[Bwaaah]

That would be independent thinking.

[Commenter_XY]

They don't want independent thinking, Bwaaah, that could be dangerous. I am thinking, specifically, of our recent national experience with a pandemic.

[Bwaaah]

Everybody stop working! We'll mail you checks and ballots. Except for Essential Workers (except for school teachers). Be sure to mask your children.

F.D.A. Advisers Recommend a New Covid Vaccine Formula for the Fall (NY Times, TODAY) All RESPONSIBLE people...single file line...no charge.

Donald Trump killed your grandparents.

What'd I miss?

[Sarcastr0]

Aren't you playing the part of someone reluctantly switching their vote to Trump?

Now Covid trutherism and J6 are political prisoners nonsense.

I become skeptical of your ideological shift.

[Estragon]

To be fair, this individual seems like a potential pro-brain worms vote. Which I encourage!

[Sarcastr0]

I thought that was Don Nico.

[Don Nico]

"I thought that was Don Nico."
What did you mean? If you are refering to a past statement that I will vote for RFK, then you are correct.

[Bwaaah]

I support the Party of Science!

(The method be damned, eh?)

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Virus-flouting, antisocial, disaffected right-wingers who believe in fairy tales while disdaining science, reason, and modern America are among my favorite culture war casualties. Those losers can't be replaced fast enough.

[Bwaaah]

I don’t think my sense of humor and your political sensitivities are compatible. I exploit ambiguities that cut both ways, but your sense of humor pretty much cuts only one way.

There’s nothing actually funny about the right (unless you're laughing *at* them). Ammiright?

[Don Nico]

"Finals begin Friday."
Finals did not stop disruption in exam rooms at MIT.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"graffiti vandalism on the sandstone buildings and columns"

Massachusetts averages four feet of rain a year, so we tend to use granite and marble as building materials, not porous sandstone. The White House is a form of sandstone, but it was coated, initially with whitewash and I presume now with more advanced things, to seal it.

Palo Alto is hot and dry, so that's probably untreated sandstone, and if it is, it won't be an easy job to get that paint off of it.

You clearly can't sandblast, and I'd be cautious with pressure washers. A lot of the paint solvents/removers that you'd otherwise use will cause the paint to bleed deeper into the sandstone.

So this may be permanent damage -- not that the university won't try to remove it but that evidence of their efforts may remain afterwards.

[Rossami]

People have been cleaning graffitti, dirt, algae and everything else off sandstone for hundreds of years. Stanford in particular has a lot of experience with it dating back at least to the anti-war protests of the 60s. It might cost a bit of money to fix but there's no way this is "permanent damage".

[y81]

And if it can't be cleaned, the individual blocks can be replaced.

[Brett Bellmore]

And if they had burned the place to the ground, it could have been rebuilt from scratch. Is there a point here?

[Rossami]

The "situation has now crossed the line"? That line was crossed long ago. Better to admit that you're just now working up the balls to do something about it.

[Krayt]

You can use it to direct anger at whoever's the president. Ohhhhhh...

[ScottK]

Check whether the Stanford Young Republicans and Project Veritas have paint listed in their inventory of supplies.

[Dr. Ed 2]

They don't, and you know it.

[Ed Grinberg]

And I suppose the 2020 "peaceful protests" in Minneapolis and elsewhere were all done by the local Republican activists... Those devious bastards!

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Is Mr. Volokh going to work pro bono for the pro-war criminal criminals who assaulted protesters at the UCLA campus?

Has he volunteered to promote pseudonymity of the jerk who sprayed protesters with noxious gas at Columbia?

Carry on, clingers. So far as better Americans permit, anyway.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

How many of these encampments are left?

As I said from the beginning, there was no need for anyone to lose their shit over them: Students lose interest quickly.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Apply the same standards to their rulebreaking which would be applied to a MAGA encampment of a Klambake of the Klan. In other words, no exemption from the rules, sanction them if them commit violations. If you bend the rules for one group, then in the name of nondiscrimination, the Klan will want the rules bent for them too, etc.

[bernard11]

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you talk about a "Klambake of the Klan."

There are plenty of commenters here who think the Jan. 6 insurrectionists shouldn't be punished - they were just tourists. Apparently they think violence, vandalism, and destruction are only bad when they don't agree with the reason for it.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. My call to enforce existing rules against encamping on the quad? To enforce rules against violent and disrupted behavior in general?

Apparently the term is "Klanbake," not Klambake -

https://daily.jstor.org/contested-convention/

(Since there have been jury verdicts against several Jan. 6. people, I'll assume that lawlessness was involved. I trust juries more than the media or random Internet commenters. That still doesn't mean I endorse pretrial detention without bail in noncapital cases.)

[Commenter_XY]

Interesting how history rhymes, isn't it? A century ago, America was coming out of the aftermath of war and pandemic. A time of unrest. A century later, a vaguely similar set of circumstances. Even though things changed in a century, people and their motives stayed the same.

Interesting article. There might be contested conventions this year, who knows.

BTW, I agree with your original premise, one standard applied to all in the same manner.

[bernard11]

I trust juries more than the media or random Internet commenters.

Good for you. Lots of people here seem not to.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Why are you replying to them instead of to my comments?

[Bwaaah]

And what punishment would you find appropriate for people who were not tourists, nor committed any act of violence, nor any act of vandalism, nor any act of destruction? Like what punishment would be appropriate for most of the people?

[Sarcastr0]

Ever read some of the charging docs? What you describe does not fit 'most of the people.'

[bernard11]

what punishment would be appropriate for most of the people?

Depends what they did, I'd say. Did they trespass? Did they enter buildings they plainly shouldn't have entered? ( By which I mean, did they enter through doors or windows that had plainly been broken in?) Were they cheering on the more violent among them? Once they entered did they threaten anyone, etc.

And let's leave the law and questions of punishment aside for a second. Were these people even remotely rational? In a moral, not legal, sense did they behave appropriately, or did they commit, or support, violence in the name of an obvious lie?

You know, I have more sympathy for some of those gullible fools than I do, in general, for their defenders. They should have known better, true, but they are, after all "the common clay of the new West. You know, morons." Their defenders should know better, and disgrace themselves with every word they write.

[Bwaaah]

Interesting disposition page here from NPR. They show about 1400 people charged so far. About 845 have pled guilty, and 200 have been convicted at trial.

I reviewed a few dozen cases. It looks like if you entered and left the Capitol fairly quickly, had no aggravating factors, no prior record, and plead guilty with full acknowledgement of your crime, you could get away with a conviction for Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building, 12 to 18 months probation, 40 to 60 hours community service, 10 to 30 days of home confinement/monitoring, and around a $600 in fees/restitution. That looks approximately like your best possible outcome so far.

The most common aggravating factors included posting anything on social media, boasting, dressing in any aggressive fashion (like fatigues), touching anything, loudly declaring anything prideful or aggressive toward law enforcement. Those factors would increase probation time and community service time substantially.

More aggravating was being near, showing any sympathy for, or having any friends associated with Proud Boys (either at the Capitol or in prior or subsequent communications). That seems to get you incarceration. Any property damage or non-compliant encounter with law enforcement also seems to get you incarceration.

I understand how symbolically offensive were the actions of the January 6 people to so many American citizens. I don’t understand why so many other symbolically offensive actions associated with other political actions are so untroubling and unthreatening to so many of the same people. Many of the January 6 Capitol rioters pled guilty with contrition and received prison sentences. They had no practical organization nor plan to actually stop the transfer of power of the Presidential election. It was three hours of about as rag-tag a group of activists as you’ll find anywhere. And yet, there are daily organized protests, on campuses around the country, calling for genocide of Jews by people who engage in repetitive acts of vandalism, intimidation of innocent people, and rejection of authority, and are routinely dismissed as acceptable political expression.

I just don’t understand the ethical judgements at play here.

[Brett Bellmore]

“to my friends, everything; to my enemies, the law.”

Clear now?

[Bwaaah]

Clear, always.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The Klanbake was the infamous 1924 Democratic Convention.
The Klan would march on DC in 1925 and 1926 -- there are movies of this.

A Clambake consists of a wood fire under a steel plate, with clams, lobsters, and corn buried in wet seaweed on top, with an old tarp over the top.

[Buddy Bizarre]

Is it possible to sentence them to a course in remedial English?

[Estragon]

Yes, but Drackman has to go too

[Frank Drackman]

Engrish is my second language Dickhead, how many do you speak?

[Gasman]

Stanford's open letter should simply drop the word 'protestor'. It still reads grammatically clearly. It also avoids appearing to validate the actions of those who committed burglary and vandalism by naming them as anything but burglars and vandals.