Louisiana Town Admits It Was Wrong to Block Flying "Fuck Biden" / "And Fuck You for Voting for Him" Flags

The Town of Grand Isle just settled Ross Brunet's lawsuit against it, agreeing that

1. Plaintiff was wrongfully cited for engaging in constitutionally protected speech of flying flags with political messages.
2. Defendants … agree to cease interfering with Plaintiff's right to fly flag(s) with the word "F**k" on them.
3. Defendant, Town of Grand Isle agrees to repeal Grand Isle Ordinance 1012 by October 20, 2023.

The ordinance, which I think was clearly unconstitutional under Cohen v. California (1971) (which reversed a conviction for wearing a jacket that said "Fuck the Draft"), provided, in relevant part:

Signs on vehicles shall not contain language deemed offensive and vulgar nor obscene in nature and cannot contain language that describes a sex act. It shall be unlawful for any vehicle to operate on Highway 1, any public roads or public areas and the Grand Isle Beach that bears a temporary sign described above herein.

It also agreed to pay $40,000 in damages and attorney fees. You can see the Complaint here; plaintiff is represented by Katie M. Schwartzmann, Virginia Hamrick, and students Elana Beiser and Gabriela Chilingarova, all of the Tulane First Amendment Law Clinic.

Comments

[Magister]

There was such a flag near me; the greatest merit of it seemed to be that it conceded that people did in fact vote for Biden.

It alternated with Trump flags saying "The Rules Have Changed" and "Take Back America". Nobody else in the area has expressed similar sentiments since the insurrection.

[Life of Brian]

the greatest merit of it seemed to be that it conceded that people did in fact vote for Biden

I feel like I’m about to learn something new and interesting about the universe. Who has ever actually said that nobody actually voted for Biden?

[Magister]

One would have expected "Trump won!" or "Fuck the rigged voting machines!" or "Fuck whoever put in fraudulent ballots!" or something consistent with the Big Lie. It is perhaps interesting that the flag presupposes that the only people who would read both lines would be Biden voters; it's not even "And fuck you if you voted for Biden".

That Life of Brian is a pedantic ass is both uninteresting and already well known. "People did in fact vote for Biden" should be taken as "Biden won the election through actual votes in contradiction to the Big Lie".

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

“People did in fact vote for Biden” should be taken as “Biden won the election through actual votes in contradiction to the Big Lie”.

Only if you're a slow 3rd grader with the reasoning skills of a rotting stump.

[Michael P]

Well, he apparently did vote for Joe Biden.

[Estragon]

Seems right. Personally, I prefer it when the huckleberries self-identify with their flags.

[Life of Brian]

Personally, I prefer it when the huckleberries self-identify with their flags.

Oh, come on -- finish the thought. Don't keep us hanging!

[Estragon]

I guess I’m not sure what you’re asking here

[Doug Heffernan]

He is probably wondering if you mean the state fruit of idaho, or the twain books. Or maybe "huckleberry" is just slang for ordinary yokels? I don't know, I'm not from the south.

[Estragon]

I guess we don’t have many Yankee fans around here.

[Life of Brian]

The part of your thought that follows the word "because"

[Estragon]

I like it when people let me know who I’m dealing with up front

[Longtobefree]

I'm Your Huckleberry
The etymology of the phrase is traced back to Aurthurian Lore. Huckleberry Garlands were said to be given to Knights of the Kingdom for coming to the service of a damsel. They would approach the lady, lower their lance, and receive the small branch as a symbol of gratitude; much like a medal.
Therefore, "I'm Your Huckleberry" literally means "I'm your Hero."
In current adaptaions, in reference to the movie Tombstone, it means "I'm your man." as an affirmative response to a challenge.

[Estragon]

I mean it in the Phil Rizzuto sense

[Doug Heffernan]

You mean like "holy cow"?

[Bob from Ohio]

"Phil Rizzuto sense"

Ok grandpa.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Ok grandpa.

Among the hayseeds, a 36-year-old can be a grandparent . . . and get kicked out of a theater for handjobbing her date in public while he samples her wares . . . and still be a beloved "family values" representative.

[Dr. Ed 2]

And???

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Among the clingers, "OK grandpa" has little sting, because (1) many of them possess the level of judgment that produces 36-year-old grandparents and (2) many of them don't make it to old age, again consequent to bad judgment and poor character.

[Estragon]

An A-10 strafing the border says what? Can you post it on 4chan please?

[Doug Heffernan]

Ah, I get it now. The "Huckleberry (disambiguation)" page on wikipedia should include all of this additional parlence. I was completely "Huckleberry" ignorant, I'm ashamed to admit.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"Huckleberry Garlands were said to be given to Knights of the Kingdom for coming to the service of a damsel."

I thought it was a garland of herrings. I may have my lore mixed up, though.

[Krayt]

“My Huckleberry Friend” lyric suddenly makes more sense, though I still wonder if it isn’t a double entendre as a synonym for yokel.

Wait, was it such a synonym? That would come from Huckleberry Finn, but did Twain use the name as the hero?

[Noscitur a sociis]

Huckleberry Garlands were said to be given to Knights of the Kingdom for coming to the service of a damsel. They would approach the lady, lower their lance, and receive the small branch as a symbol of gratitude; much like a medal.
Therefore, “I’m Your Huckleberry” literally means “I’m your Hero.”

Since huckleberry plants are endemic to North America, this seems a bit unlikely.

[grb]

(just to keep this huckleberry subthread going)

[Estragon]

It was a terrible huckleberry year in my area, sadly

[Bob from Ohio]

"The name 'huckleberry' is a North American variation of the English dialectal name variously called 'hurtleberry' or 'whortleberry' (/ˈhwɜːrtəlbɛri/) for the bilberry."

[Noscitur a sociis]

Okay?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

My prominent memories of a five-day visit to Jackson Hole were

1) hitting Dick Cheney's house with a golf ball . . . and being told by a government security agent who emerged when I went to fish it out of the yard, "consider that one lost, sir"

2) the cascades, thermal pools, and other remarkable natural features of Yellowstone

3) watching a dumbass dangle body parts over a brightly hued thermal pool that seemed to approach scalding

and

4) observing that every meal or snack seemed to involved huckleberries . . . huckleberry glaze, huckleberry pudding, huckleberry beer, huckleberry taffy, huckleberry sauce, huckleberry oatmeal, huckleberry ice cream, etc.

[grb]

Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland : “every meal or snack seemed to involved huckleberries . . . huckleberry glaze, huckleberry pudding, huckleberry beer, huckleberry taffy, huckleberry sauce, huckleberry oatmeal, huckleberry ice cream, etc”

I had a similar experience hiking the Kungsleden Trail in Sweden except mine was eating reindeer stew, reindeer pasta, reindeer burgers, reindeer jerky, and reindeer-flavored cheese.

All well and good, but I advise against bringing up the subject around children at Christmas time….

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I didn't mind the huckleberry (I still purchase huckleberry tea once a year or so).

[Life of Brian]

[misthreaded]

[The Margrave of Azilia]

I question the idea there's a right to say f___: the criticism I've heard of this idea is that it puts the First Amendment into protecting self-referential self-expression for its own sake, outside the context of republican (small r) self-government.

I could be fucking wrong, of fucking course. It's fucking possible that the government may use fucking words like this to suppress legitimate fucking dissent.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

By “question whether there’s a right,” I necessarily question whether the Supreme Court was correct in Cohen v. California.

I say this to pre-empt the positivists who will reply “the Supreme Court said it, I believe it, that settles it.”

[VinniUSMC]

I question the idea there’s a right to say f___:

Why? Because it's currently a "naughty" word? Should the government maintain a list of "naughty" words that you have no right to use?

Linguistically, fuck is probably the most powerful word in the English language. And the majority of its usage isn't even profane/vulgar.

[santamonica811]

From a legal standpoint, a pretty obviously-correct result. White Trash absolutely have (and should have!!!) the same free speech rights as you and I share.

(I'll note that the shitty new Reason pop-up ads are in full force today. Today, it's for an acne cream, for some bizarre reason...I haven't had acne in multiple decades and have never had cause to search on the internet for anything remotely acne-related.)

[Bob from Ohio]

Its cute you think you are not trash.

[santamonica811]

Thanks. (By the way; the word is spelled "it's" rather than 'its,' for what that's worth.) Using correct spelling is not an indication of trash vs non-trash. Merely an idle observation on my part.

[I will, of course, accept a 'grammar Nazi' appellation.]

[grb]

Which begs the question : Is it possible to live one's life year-to-year without screwing up an occasional "its"? (or they're, their, there)

Is human perfection attainable ?!?

[santamonica811]

LOL. I think: of course not. Not with normal typing. And definitely not with these speech-to-type apps on smartphones. The occasional spelling and/or grammar error will invariably crop up. I do tend to be really tough with my fellow lawyers on briefs where they should have been subjected to multiple editing reviews--ideally, by at least two pairs of eyes. But I do try to be very charitable for informal communication.

In my ideal world, even White Trash, and far-Left socialists, and fascist sympathizers, etc, would express their nonsense using nothing but the Queen's English.

[Dealing with these god-awful pop-up ads is maybe putting me off my feed, and so maybe I'm more surly than usual?] 😉

[grb]

santamonica811 : "In my ideal world, even White Trash, and far-Left socialists, and fascist sympathizers, etc, would express their nonsense using nothing but the Queen’s English"

Preferably together, having a genial tea with their pinkies' extended...

[VinniUSMC]

the Queen’s English.

I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but Her Majesty is no longer with us. It's the King's English now.

[David Nieporent]

Dude, the Queen's dead.

[Nige]

Ripley blew her out an airlock.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Or without screwing up, "begs the question," for that matter.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

"Which prompts the question" works for me...

[Krayt]

Ads
Fire TV
Eureka mini-vacs
Pampers with “Blow-Out Barrier”, I’m reaching the age I might need that, but not for a bebby.
Camera
Fetal surgery wtf

A moron wrote this comment system. I edit, it inserts .lt br’s, then I save and it deletes them, not inserting the br, so all my items run together on a single line.

Do you guys need a hand? I can fix this. It’s all scripting and database work, and you just need a few tweaks.

[Bob from Ohio]

Huckleberry [used incorrectly] and White Trash

The tolerant left!

[Estragon]

The tone police!

[grb]

Snowflake Bob!

[Bob from Ohio]

Oh, hypocrisy doesn't matter anymore. Convenient.

[Estragon]

“Hypocrisy”

So rich. Can I refer you back to that Buckley thread or do you want to slink away quietly now?

[Estragon]

Nothing to say! Shocker. You are a coward

[grb]

See, Bob, in a forum like this the charge of “hypocrisy” is way too easy to throw around. It really only gets traction if it’s super-colossal gargantuan-style monstrous mega-hypocrisy.

You know, like a Trump supporter talking about “Biden corruption”

(of course it doesn’t have to be that ludicrous)

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Boorish, antisocial culture war casualties have rights, too.

Part of what makes America great is that disaffected losers like Ross Burnet get to complain as much as they like about progress, modernity, reason, and Trump's failures. Ross Burnet is no problem replacement will not solve.

[TwelveInchPianist]

I see you managed a comment without dropping an n-bomb. Nice work!

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

How do guys like you square your bigotry with your walk with Christ?

In any event, open wider, clinger. More progress on the way!

[TwelveInchPianist]

My bigotry? Don't you mean our bigotry? I mean, since we both use racial slurs and all.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Getting the bigoted shit kicked out of you in the culture war has made you cranky and disaffected.

Which is great. Guys like you deserve every sadness and indignity modern America will inflict on you.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Arthur, there was a time when you would have responded to a comment like "We both use racial slurs" by saying, "I do not use racial slurs"

But I don't hear anything like that coming from you now. What happened?

[TwelveInchPianist]

It's been one (1) day since a comment authored by Arthur Kirkland containing a vile racial slur was posted to this blog.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Do you think Prof. Volokh likes it when you draw attention to his and this blog’s bigotry? Do you think this is related to his departure from UCLA?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Again, Arthur, don't you mean "our bigotry". You use the same vile racial slurs that you have spent years commenting here and lambasting Prof V. for.

And I notice that neither UCLA nor the Hoover Institue seems to be jumping through hoops to hire you, either. I don't know what institution you work for, but I guess they're OK with racial slurs. Or perhaps they don't know that you like to drop n-bombs on the internets.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I will remember our conversation as I am pissing on the graves of your -- and Prof. Volokh's -- deplorable right-wing political preferences, remembering fondly that it was your gay-bashing, superstition, Islamophobia, racism, hatred of immigrants, disrespect for legitimate education, misogyny, and un-American tendencies that doomed your conservative thinking in modern, improving, great America.

[Super Scary]

"I will remember our conversation as I am pissing on the graves of your "

Lol, you're an old ass man. You'll be dead long, long before any of that.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

The grave for conservative preferences not only has been dug (by better Americans) but is already substantially full (consequent to decades and decades of liberal-libertarian progress, arranged over conservatives' objections, efforts, and wishes).

[Daddyhill]

OK, this seems fair enough. At least the allegedly offensive displays contained a coherent, consistent message conveying actual meaning. I might not appreciate that meaning, but that's irrelevant, yes? In any case I'm planning to avoid going anywhere south of Lexington KY (sister there) and east of the TX/NM line during the remainder of my lifetime. So far people where I live seem to hate each other a lot less than they do down there.

I'd like to make a suggestion though. An expression like "Fuck you for voting for Biden" may be crude, it does convey a message with enough meaning to make it understandable by anyone over the age of 12 (OK, it might be 14 down there in the Bible Belt). But what about Joseph Frederick's large banner reading "Bong hits 4 Jesus" (see Morse v Frederick 2007)? Was there really a coherent message encouraging dope smoking in that? SCOTUS said yes, there was, so the principal of Frederick's high school wasn't violating the First Amendment when she suspended him for 10 days for violating the school's zero-tolerance policy.

What interested me most about the case was the relative certainty the Court (5-4) felt that the message was clearly an exhortation to smoke marijuana or the glorification of the practice. Huh? Numerous academic linguists argued at the time that the expression was nonsense devoid of meaning and hence not really a "message" at all. Others pointed out that the expression could be interpreted in so many different ways that it was practically meaningless. My favorite is the one I contrived (blushes): Bottom of the ninth, Angels vs Demons, Demon shortstop Manuel Jesus at bat. But now there's a change fans, the Demon's manager is sending in the designated hitter Dick Bong, yes fans, Bong hits for Jesus!

The other thing that interested me about this case was the way Clarence Thomas (in the majority of 5) spoke about it. He said that as a matter of law school-age children have no First Amendment rights at all. He also said that in his opinion public schools would be better managed nowadays as they were in, say, 1825, when children were seen and not heard and spoke only when spoken to by a teacher. Of course, he seems to have missed the irony there: in 1825 Thomas might have been owned by Frederick's father; or by Harlan Crow for that matter. Good times! MAGA, baby, MAGA!

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Conservatives are better understood if you recognize they are flailing -- they know they have the weaker positions in modern America, so they lurch toward doing or saying that might buy them a few more years of relevance -- and focused mostly on flashing middle fingers toward the culture war's winners.

[Toranth]

This may be one of the stupidest, most bigoted, rambling and idiotic comments I've seen from a non-spammer here.