The Volokh Conspiracy
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Chief Justice Roberts Calls Out Counsel In Moore v. Harper
This opinion continues a trend where the Court faults lawyers for making certain arguments, not making other arguments.
In Brackeen, Justice Barrett repeatedly faulted counsel for Texas and the adopting families. She wanted a "theory for rationalizing this body of law," and was not willing to connect the dots plotted by the lawyers. In Moore v. Harper, Chief Justice Roberts found that counsel for the legislative defendants failed to adequately argue that the decision of the North Caroline Supreme Court violated the Elections Clause. And the failure to present this argument allowed the Court to avoid deciding what standard ought to apply to the Election Clause. Roberts wrote this argument wasn't in their briefs:
We decline to address whether the North Carolina Supreme Court strayed beyond the limits derived from the Elections Clause. The legislative defendants did not meaningfully present the issue in their petition for certiorari orin their briefing, nor did they press the matter at oral argument.
And the position was disclaimed during oral argument:
Counsel for the defendants expressly disclaimed the argument that this Court should reassess the North Carolina Supreme Court's reading of state law. Tr. of Oral Arg. 7 ("We're not asking this Court to second-guess or reassess. We say take the North Carolina Supreme Court's decision on face value and as fairly reflecting North Carolina law . . . ."). When pressed whether North Carolina's Supreme Court did not fairly interpret its State Constitution, counsel reiterated that such an argument was "not our position in this Court." Id., at 54.
Roberts even faulted counsel for pivoting to the argument during rebuttal!
Although counsel attempted to expand the scope of the argument in rebuttal, such belated efforts do not overcome prior failures to preserve the issue for review. See this Court's Rule 28 ("[C]ounsel making the opening argument shall present the case fairly and completely and not reserve points of substance for rebuttal.").
Talk about persnickety--knocking counsel for raising an argument during rebuttal. When the Chief wants to reach an issue, he will do pirouettes. When he doesn't want to reach an issue, he will don a straightjacket. The Court of late has had a very fluid approach to oral argument. Top-side counsel may hold an argument in reserve for rebuttal, or the seriatim round. But Rule 28 is still on the books.
I am going to make an unpopular prediction about the affirmative action cases. Counsel for Students for Fair Admission declined to argue that the Title VI standard was different from the Equal Protection standard. This decision was strategic. They could have argued that Title VI imposed a more stringent standard, and dicta from Grutter suggesting the standard was the same should be overruled. But they did not choose this path. I think the Court will rely on Title VI to (a) reaffirm Grutter and Bakke on stare decisis ground, (b) hold Title VI is subject to the Grutter standard because the parties did not ask the Court to apply a different standard, and (c) rule for Harvard and UNC. I know, my prediction is very uncomfortable, but there it is. I have seen far too many criticisms of prominent conservative lawyers in decisions by conservative Justices. If this outcome happens, conservative lawyers will need to have a serious moment of reflection. Having a "6-3" Court is not enough. Arguments must cohere at all levels, and more narrow relief must be sought. Yes, there is an asymmetry, but those are the rules of the road for conservative cases. Governor DeSantis is not wrong. And progressives should thank President Trump.
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Prof. Blackman,
Have you ever considered running these by a lawyer before you post them?
Didn’t he clerk? Wouldn’t he have at least drafted one opinion at one point faulting counsel for not raising or developing an argument? Or at least read one? Unless he doesn’t think this super common practice doesn’t apply to SCOTUS?
LOL. But someone on twitter called back to this Courts should not decide issues that are not there post by Blackman from several years ago, where he (a) admits making an error (!) while clerking, and (b) acknowledges that parties waive issues by not timely presenting them to the court.)
(Though his actual anecdote makes no sense. He claims that Party A moved for summary judgment and Blackman wrote a detailed memo recommending to his judge that it be granted; the judge granted it based on his recommendation, but then Party B moved for reconsideration, arguing that because the claim upon which the motion had been granted had not been raised in the complaint, it had been waived. Blackman checked, realized Party B was right, and the court withdrew the decision granting SJ. But that makes no sense. Why didn't Party B raise that waiver argument in its original opposition to the motion?)
Um, are you under the impression that attorneys filing briefs or otherwise arguing matters before a judge never make a mistake or discover they have overlooked a foundational principle that needs to be raised?
My experience (granted, now a couple of decades in the past) does not incline me to be surprised or mystified as to how counsel can make an error . . . 😉
No, but I am under the impression that if you lose a motion for summary judgment, you can't say, "Wait a minute, I just thought of a better argument. Please reconsider your decision."
In the scenario that Blackman describes, Party B forfeited the waiver argument by not raising it in its opposition papers.
Perhaps Party A forfeited the forfeiture argument in its response to the motion for reconsideration.
[deleted]
Or, the Supreme Court isn't the right place to press for legislation on conservative policy priorities.
This is in sharp contrast to Marxist policy preferences, which can be imposed by any district court in the country, often as a national injunction against following actual laws.
Yes, national injunctions are only being used by those Marxist courts, and then always to strike down 'actual laws' not those fake laws like a state's constitution.
I think Michael P's only goal was to use the word "Marxist" in a grammatically correct sentence.
The (previous) NC Supreme Court held, among other things, that a state constitutional amendment was invalid because the legislature that voted to send it to a referendum was unlawfully elected as a result of gerrymandering. No word on why this decision applied to a constitutional amendment but not to a statute. Something about the rule of law, etc., etc.
He knows this but doesn't care.
Um, OK.
I'm not up on the latest NC Supreme Court stuff, and I donm't much care.
I do know that doesn't really have much to do with this thread, which is about federal court stuff.
That fact was part of this case, that's what was being referenced in the opinion that Josh excerpted.
Being so ignorant is kinda rude, dude.
Comment threading is not that confusing, dude.
Mikey's comment was not a non-sequitor.
Gonna need to show your work on that one, chief. We were talking district courts and national injunctions before he came in.
Here is your comment:
"Yes, national injunctions are only being used by those Marxist courts, and then always to strike down ‘actual laws’ not those fake laws like a state’s constitution."
Notice where you say "not those fake laws like a state's constitution"?
Ok, holding that concept in the top of your mind, now read this:
"The (previous) NC Supreme Court held, among other things, that a state constitutional amendment was invalid because the legislature that voted to send it to a referendum was unlawfully elected as a result of gerrymandering"
See how you say "not those fake laws like a state constitution" and then he shows an example of a state constitutional amendment being struck down by a Marxist court?
See how "state constitution" and "state constitutional amendment" in both comments refer to nearly identical concepts, thus contextually binding the two comments together?
HTH
You are stupid. I didn’t think you were stupid, just lazy.
My comment was about federal courts striking down laws, and how there is no such thing as actual laws.
This was not a hard sentence to read. You tried. No laziness as an excuse, you are actually stupid. Makes some sense.
As George Orwell noted, a fundamental characteristic of totalitarian propaganda is the use of certain words as pure epithets, with no meaning other than to denote that the object of the epithet is an enemy of the Party to be attacked by any means.
Thus totalitarian propagandist Michael P illustrates his allegience to fundamentally Stalinist principles in the very act of using the communist-associated word “Marxist” as a classically Stalinist epithet. The specific words don’t really matter. Ideas in and of themselves are irrelevant. There is only power. Words are simply an instrument to power.
It is in complete accordance with, loyalty to, fidelity to, fundamentally Stalinist principles, that totalitarian propagandist Michael P characterizes every judge slightly to the left of Thomas as a “Marxist.”
It's funny to watch the Marxists scurry out of the shadows to demonstrate how bad they are at reading.
Liberals are Marxists.
Conservatives are half-educated, superstitious, disaffected bigots.
Where is the hope for America, Michael P., from your perspective?
The so-called ‘liberals’ don’t breed, AIDS. Theirs is an evolutionarily inferior meme. And, as the whole world can see their totalitarian, global imperialist ambitions and abuses clearly now, it’s rather for the best that the libtards fade from this world.
So, Michael P can have some hope based on that.
He shouldn’t hold his breath, though, since the US will most likely suffer ‘catastrophic implosion’ when its culture war turns hot, de-dollarization gets into full gear, and the empire crumbles.
Are the Marxists in the room with you right now?
'...of using the communist-associated word “Marxist” as a classically Stalinist epithet'.
The wonderful irony here, of course, concerns your own use of 'Stalinist'. Replace 'Michael P' and 'Marxism' with 'ReaderY' and 'Stalinism' and then your post would be true.
Furthermore, there's credible academic literature dating back to 2017 showing how 'liberals' and 'progressives' have disingenuously used the term 'far right' as part of a delegitimization strategy to shift the Overton window and politics.
But no bother. Keep telling people what words and thoughts count as 'politically correct', which pronouns must be used and when, and pretend like you're not yourself a totalitarian fuckwit of exactly the variety Orwell (a committed democratic socialist who nonetheless worried about the left's perennial tendencies towards both authoritarianism and totalitarianism) warned the world about.
" I think the Court will rely on Title VI to (a) reaffirm Grutter and Bakke on stare decisis ground, (b) hold Title VI is subject to the Grutter standard because the parties did not ask the Court to apply a different standard, and (c) rule for Harvard and UNC."
I fear that you are right, and am starting to wonder if Dobbs was worth it.
And I don't really see a 6-3 conservative court on anything other than abortion. I fear that the Fed Soc concentrated too much on that at the expense of conservative principles in general, and I'm still pissed at Roberts for the NoBama NoCare decision.
The only thing with stare decisis is that O'Connor said "25 years" and true stare decisis would include that.
All he's got to say is "That was just dicta", and he wouldn't even be wrong.
Dicta in the Bakke decision is how we got here.
And it's like Lincoln said, a house divided....
A house divided?!?
HA!
1. You don't have the balls to even try to divide the "house," and;
2. Even if you tried you would lose (again).
You guys wish sooooooooo hard to have - and win - a second Civil War.
Losers
Nah, I'm satisfied with the outcome of the first one, don't have any cotton worth picking, and I'd rather have Peoples like Al Sharpton Anti-Semiting up in New Yahk than Atlanta (sad when the Southeast is less Anti-Semitic than the Nawth East)
And if the current state of Chicago is "Winning!" I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill, umm, yourself.
Frank
1: The South would have won if the war had been fought in 1820, as it almost was.
2: New England would have won if *it* had fought in 1814 (making a separate peace with England).
3: You keep thinking Confederacy, I'm thinking Wiemar Republic.
4: A lot of the Nazis were gay.
5: The only thing worse than a one sided race war is a two sided race war, particularly when one side is only 12% of the population. Affirmative retribution has been maintained with the implicit (sometimes explicit) threat of violence. If SCOTUS yields to that, as I fear it will, it will legitimize violence on the other side.
It will also further discredit the imploding higher ed industry.
As Ahnold said in "T2"
"It is in their nature to destroy themselves"
OK, he said "yourselves"
1) No.
2) No.
3) Any post of yours with the word "thinking" is a no.
4) No.
5) No.
Do you even know what the Hartford Convention was?
Or "Madison's war"?
I do. Something that you dimly remember from 7th grade social studies but don't understand. Despite what you may have heard, secession was never on the agenda at the Hartford convention.
And you have a copy of said agenda?
The war ending also helped, but there was talk of secession in Massachusetts all the way back to Jefferson. And you do know where the Federal Armory was....
1. It's not 1820.
2. It's not 1814
3. It's not Weimar; and if you invoke Lincoln maybe realize the Confederacy is gonna come up.
4. A few were; weirdos try and exagerate that. And no gayness after those long knives!
5. There won't be a civil war, but there especially won't be a race war constituting everyone else versus African Americans over affirmative action, lol.
Even with AA the AA's suck (see what I did there?)
Lets see, Barry Hussein and Ke-grungy Jackson Brown both Harvard Grad-jew-mates, "Law Review" which I think is supposed to be for top students, and one talks about 57 states, s-s-s-s-s-tutters almost as bad as Stuttering John Fetterman and the other can't tell a Schlong from a Gash,
But wait! there's more (HT R Popeil) other side talks just as bad about Clarence "Frogman" Thomas, (Real) Dr. Ben "Casey" Carson, and the late Herbert Cain (OK, maybe going to that Trump Rally in July 2020 wasn't a great idea)
Frank
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. . . .
The ancient lament of the Loser.
What war did you participate in faggot?
Ooopsie! that wasn't "Kind" or "Gentle"
and I don't mean the battle to pretend you're Heterosexual,
a "Battle of the Bands" or fighting the "War on Poverty" teaching
the Savages to throw Spears,
if there is another Civil Wah my money's on the side with more guns and people who know how to shoot them.
Frank "Whoever double crosses Frank and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Frank. Nothing!!!!"
My money would be on the smarter, more numerous, more skilled, productive mainstream rather than on the bigoted, half-educated, parasitic culture war losers.
Doesn't really hold up in Combat, dumb guy with a rifle beats the smart guy with a computer every time. Or almost every time.
First, who said the smarter Americans won't benefit from use of weapons? Plenty of weapons outgun rifles.
Second, people too dumb to know whether to capitalize a word such combat aren't going to be of much use in any context in the modern world.
"if (sic) there is another Civil Wah my money’s on the side with more guns and people who know how to shoot them."
At least we agree on something.
Dude, my gay marriage has lasted years longer then the confederacy did. It's a bigger part of the American tradition then your secession fantasies now.
That said, go look at county-level elecotral maps from 1860 vs. 2020. In the lead-up to the civil war, we really were divided along stark geographic lines. Now? We are not. A modern "civil war" would be less Union vs. Confederacy and more Irish Troubles.
Which, you know, we're alreayd seeing. The FBI has been banging the drum on the rise of right-wing domestic terrorism for over a decade now. That is the violence you're steering towards, not Gettysburg.
That said, go look at county-level elecotral maps from 1860 vs. 2020.
I had reason to do exactly that comparison a couple of years ago. I discovered that if you looked at the 1860 map in a particular way—with an eye to drawing the dividing line on the basis of the anti-Lincoln vote as one bloc, and the pro-Lincoln vote as another—your conclusion of stark regional contrast is surprisingly off the mark. And also surprisingly similar to more recent maps which relate to culture war contexts. For instance, there was more anti-Lincoln voting in the upper midwest in 1860 than you might suppose, and mostly in counties which tend toward Trumpsim now. Same with the middle of Pennsylvania. I was surprised to discover how durable those patterns have proved to be.
What are you talking about?
For any given county, you can answer "Lincoln or not-Lincoln" with >90% accuracy a single question: is it north of Maryland. There's a few exceptions and the waters muddy when you head into the mid-west, but that one geographic line will give the right answer in most cases.
If you distinguish between the other candidates it gets a little more messy in the South, but if you simplifiy it to Lincoln/Anyone-Else? Then it's more stark, not less stark.
Much like Pearl Harbor, a lot of attitudes changed after they fired on Fort Sumter. Also after Harper's Ferry in the south.
Remember that southern cotton was fueling the mills in Massachusetts and elsewhere. I forget who, but an abolitionist was nearly lynched in Boston, and remember the Copperheads.
Back then, folks on both sides were loyal to their STATE -- not the Federal Government. Robert E Lee is a good example of this, he was loyal to Virginia. Remember that Civil War units were STATE units, e.g. 54th Massachusetts, and it's been said that the reason why the NY, NH, & ME state flags are so similar -- a logo on a blue background was because they were battle flags.
Remember too that Lincoln didn't think he would get re-elected in 1864 -- nor did JFK think he would be in 1964. Assassination makes a President far more famous than they were when alive, it's true of all four.
What we have now is an even greater divide between urban and rural areas than we had back then, and we have our own President Buchanan.
Lee wasn't a Virginian first, he was a traitor. If people were loyal primarily to their state, there would have been no Civil War. That's after the fact lost causism.
The composition of units continued through WWI; it was not reflective of anything more than transportation tech at the time.
What we have now is an even greater divide between urban and rural areas than we had back then, and we have our own President Buchanan.
No, what we have is YOU feeling alienated and assuming everyone feels like you do. In fact, you are a far outlier, even among us outlier Internet political commenter types.
Correct enough.
Which is why you're not getting the Civil War 2.0 you want. That kind of state-loyalty just isn't there. You're not going to get California and Texas marching regiments on each other and having bloody conflict in Arizona or New Mexico, you're going to have domestic terrorists going and bombing other places in their own state.
We're just a lot more mixed up then we were a hundred and fifty years ago.
It wasn’t even dicta. It was just musing about a prediction.
My fear with Students is that the middle ground doesn’t actually make any sense, just like with Dobbs. Sotomayor kept pressing this at oral. What’s the point of requiring race-neutral means if you can still have race-conscious ends? It’s pretty retarded. And if Sotomayor succeeds in making it unbearably retarded, will the justices back down or just go all the way and ban race-conscious ends? I worry.
Dr. Ed, there is conservative, and there is batshit crazy. The current court is conservative but not batshit crazy.
I think ultimately Dobbs will inflict significant damage on conservatives. It will likely help the Democrats keep the White House in 2024 -- those suburban voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida are pro-choice -- and I'm not even sure it will remain good law all that long. Whatever one thinks of abortion, as a political matter Dobbs will be a loser for Republicans for a long time to come.
What's batshit crazy is thinking that you and the Rev. Kirkland have a constitutional right to consummate your "love" with your butt buddies.
You sure do obsess about gay sex a lot.
The straightest people in the land
Protest, methinks, too much
For in their closets you will find]
They're either butch or such.
These are the Volokh Conspiracy's fans and its target audience . . . and the reason these right-wing law professors and other conservatives will continue to get stomped into irrelevance by better Americans in the modern American culture war.
Bigotry, superstition, and ignorance have consequences.
Apparently post-Dobbs, more people not only support legalization of abortion but also think that it's morally acceptable to have one:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/roe-v-wade-abortion-views.html
The fact that Republicans continue to double down on abortion restrictions including in the Presidential race is definitely going to help the Democrats politically.
Decreasing the # of Colored People Abortions in SC, FL, GA, AL, MS, LA, TX, TN, isn't going to help either. And no, they're not just going to go to VA or IL to get one, its all you can do to to get these people..
Ooops, forgot I'm supposed to be Kindler/Gentler Frank
Another day at the Volokh Conspiracy, another day of bigotry at the Volokh Conspiracy.
Just as the proprietors intend and enjoy.
Carry on, clingers. Within reason.
Where reason = the limits that continue to be established by the culture war's victors.
What's not being said is what the Black population would be if there hadn't been all these abortions -- do not forget that Planned Parenthood came out of the Eugenics movement with the goal of eliminating "inferior" races. That was their explicit goal.
Now the problems caused by a 76% illegitimacy rate would be exacerbated but abortion has changed the racial demographics in this country.
I don't believe any poll on abortion -- the opportunity cost is too high for many to tell a stranger they oppose it. The left is going so far on this that it will backfire -- UMass Amherst went so far as to use student money to buy an abortion pill for every female student on campus, all 15,000 of them. And that's the least of the insanity in Taxachusetts.
Are there any fewer abortions than there were two years ago? I don't think so -- and while women may have had to travel further, that's increasingly true for all surgeries. Morbidity and mortality rates are a LOT better in larger hospitals where they have specific surgical teams repeatedly performing specific operations daily, and a lot of community hospitals are either closing outright or becoming satellites of these larger medical centers.
The rural Texas clinic that has a MD fly in once a week is not a place you'd want *any* operation, be it an abortion or an appendectomy. It's like having a patent lawyer do criminal defense -- yes, he legally can but he probably wouldn't have the best outcome.
With all the rich rabid activists, I can't believe that any woman who wants an abortion can't get one -- that there aren't people donating to cover her travel and lodging expenses. So is there any credible research from someone like the Joint Commission or NIH on the actual number of abortions performed pre & post Dobbs?
And as to Batshit Crazy, Sotomayer, Jones, and to a lesser extent Kagan come to immediate mind. Or is it only conservatives who can be "crazy"?
Yeah, this kind of logic has never made sense.
"Oh, actually the majority totally supports X, but they're so scared of being outted as part of the majority that they lie about it!"
There are reasons to take polls with a grain of salt. The "people lie to pollsters because they're afraid of retribution" idea is not one of them.
It must suck to be Prof. Blackman.
What's really going to suck is being Black because this will create a presumption of incompetence. The secret is out, regardless, and without a ban, woe to the qualified Blacks.
Dr Ed isn't a racist. He just assumes black people are incompetent.
It's Affirmative Action doing the assuming, not Dr. Ed.
Affirmative Action was intended to help the victims of the segregated K-12 schools of the 1950s. But that was four generations ago and now it's become an entitlement.
But how do you tell the AA engineer or MD from the competent one? You can't -- so you instead go with a White one. That's logic, not racism -- racism would be rejecting the Black one if you knew he met the same standard....
IIRC this was even covered by Freakonomics a decade ago.
1) The 1950s are not "four generations ago."
2) Segregated schools didn't end in the 1950s.
Baby Boomers entered college until about 1978.
Gen X entered college until about 2005.
Millennials entered college until about 2017.
Gen Z is entering college now.
That’s four — and affirmative retribution in college admissions started in the late 1960s.
And when was Brown v. Board????
Check out the late John Lewis's Shithole District in Atlanta, schools are as segregated as they've ever been.
Like this beauty, "Carver High School"
African American:98.1%
Hispanic:1.7%
Two or more races:0.2% (the guy who gets beat up everyday)
ranked 413th out of Georgia's 429 Schools
Yay Intergration!!!!!!!!!!!
Frank
It's called "Colored People Time" for a reason
Where is it called that (other than in our bigoted rural and southern stretches and at a white, male, faux libertarian, Federalist Society blog operated by disaffected right-wing law professors)?
Only everywhere (OK, probably not where you’re currently “Confined”)
Colored people’s time (also abbreviated to CP time or CPT) is an American expression referring to African Americans as frequently being late. It states that African Americans can have a relaxed or indifferent view of work ethic, which leads to them being labeled as lazy or unreliable.
According to NPR’s podcast Code Switch, the phrase has variations in many other languages and cultures, is often used as a light-hearted comment or joke regarding being late, and may have first been used in 1914 by The Chicago Defender newspaper.
In popular culture The expression has been referenced numerous times in various types of media, including the films The Best Man, Bamboozled, Undercover Brother, Let’s Do It Again, House Party and several television series: The Mindy Project, Prison Break, The Boondocks, The Wire, Weeds, Where My Dogs At?, Reno 911!, 30 Rock, Everybody Hates Chris, A Different World, The PJs, Bridezillas, Mad TV, Cedric the Entertainer Presents, In Living Color, Empire, F is for Family, and reality series The Real Housewives of Atlanta.
In the Maude episode Florida’s Problem (season 1, episode 18), which aired on February 13, 1973, Henry Evans (who later becomes James Evans Sr. on Good Times) says to Florida, “I’m coming back at 9:00, and I mean 9:00 WPT.” He leaves and Maude asks Florida, what’s “WPT”? Florida responds “White People Time. If he didn’t mean 9:00 sharp he would have said CPT. That’s Colored People Time. Which means ‘shuffle on in when you feel like it'”.
In The Wire season 3 episode 8 “Moral Midgetry”, when Devonne asked Marlo Stanfield when he wants to meet, Marlo responded, “Five. And five mean five. I don’t truck CP Time. Five and change; I’m gone.” The mention of “CPT” in the television series Prison Break was by the white supremacist character Theodore “T-Bag” Bagwell.
Frank
That presumption has been there for a long time, and Black folks have spoken about it for a long time. It won't change or create anything as far as that's concerned. The presumption will die out over time as younger generations become the majority of the population.
Yes. A 250 year trend.
No, a 50 year trend.
Title VI and Title VII are both unconstitutional under the Equal Protection Clause. Conservative lawyers lack the cojones to make this argument. Failure theater, indeed. The deep state is very deep.
Lets assume you're right (you're not, per originalism, textualism, Constitutional liquidation, precedent)
You want to take what would be a very unpopular stand that would garner perhaps 3 votes.
There's cojones, and there's political malpractice.
The courts aren't supposed to be political, Sarcastr0.
Conservative lawyers are.
Yet you're bothered by a random commenter and not by the actual post, which reads:
"I have seen far too many criticisms of prominent conservative lawyers in decisions by conservative Justices. If this outcome happens, conservative lawyers will need to have a serious moment of reflection. Having a "6-3" Court is not enough."
Why do you suppose you chose to criticize a fair assessment of law as partisan, while ignoring a literal call for more partisanship? Is it because you're obsessed with Sarcastro? I think it is.
Two points.
The first one isn't a call for more partisanship. But a call for better and stronger arguments. The premise is that many conservative lawyers can read the room and understand SCOTUS, like most courts, is a political creature that bends towards the State and State preferences. So they generally make the weakest, most polite arguments possible, lest they get their lives and careers ruined by State affiliated activist groups like Project 65.
Secondly, someone has to police the Tone Police. It might as well be me.
Blackman's courts are. He's written before about his judicial philosophy being merely a means to an end. If some other philosophy would achieve that end, he'd switch philosophies.
Originalism - Equal rights means equal, not favoring some races over others. The 14th Amendment was to give freedom slaves and blacks (men, btw) the same rights as whites, not preferences.
Textualism - Equal means, you know, the same.
Constitutional liquidation - requires textual indeterminacy, which is not present. Plus, requires a Court that feels free to disregard the text, a recipe for judicial tyranny.
Precedent - see, Plessy and Dred Scott, along with Koramatsu and many others.
You are, in essence, arguing for judicial supremacy, along with Roberts and Kavanaugh. That is neither a democracy or a republic.
Originalism – The 14A was used in the same era it was passed to create programs accessible only be freedmen, who were all blacks. And other programs specifically targeted at blacks.
Textualism – Equal protection does not mean identical protection of peoples who are in different circumstances.
Constitutional liquidation – you have textual indeterminacy, even if you can't see it.
Precedent – may not be a slam-dunk by itself, but is also at the very least something you should pay attention to before you blithely declare longstanding laws unconstitutional.
Judicial supremacy - you are the one insisting the Supreme Court should overturn longstanding laws.
And here I was, thinking the phrase was "equal protection of the laws."
That equal rights amendment is still looking for votes.
Another good point. Area Ghost and attorney passionate defender of what he believes the Constitution says.
It was in fact the plaintiffs’ legal atrategy, their intent, to argue the independent state legislature theory. If they had attempted to argue that the NC Supreme Court was wrong on state law, they wouldn’t have been able to present that theory. They knew Justice Roberts, if he was going to rule for them, would have done so on the less earth-shattering ground. They deliberately wanted the independent state legislature theory tested, and avoided obstacles that would have kept it from being tested.
It’s what you get when you have litigants who are activists seeking to get a doctrine adopted, not just to get a win for their clients.
It doesn't really matter, given that the left-wing majority on that court is gone now.
It has?
To be fair, lots of litigation brought by AGs these days is dogmatic in nature. It's probably been that way for a long time, but I'm not expert in legal history.
I don’t understand your complaint. The government does this sort of thing often, no? Its also the entire premise behind Lawfare. Look at all the extraordinarily creative legal theories they are using to Get Trump. One of their legal theories is that it's illegal to have an unsavory legal theory about elections and their certifications.
Nobody thinks it illegal "to have an unsavory legal theory." The issue is whether it's appropriate to employ utterly frivolous legal arguments for an illegal goal.
It’s illegal to believe you unlawfully lost an election and to seek redress in court?
That’s absurd.
BravoCharlieDelta : “It’s illegal to believe you unlawfully lost an election and to seek redress in court?”
Maybe not, but it’s downright imbecilic to think Trump “believes” whatever scam he’s peddling at any given moment – and that includes his election fraud crap. Do you think Trump “believed” in his phony university or fraud charity? Do you think he “believed” he won the popular vote in both presidential elections? Do you think he “believed” that hurricane was gonna hit Alabama? Do you think he “believed” he had a right to steal those documents?
You must be the most gullible person on the face of the earth! Here’s a hint, BravoCharlieDelta : If Trump “believed” he won the election, he probably would have developed a story to support that belief consistent from one audience to the next. Instead, he improvises with all the flair of a true bullshit artist – each crowd gets a new virtuoso performance.
Kinda makes me wonder, BravoCharlieDelta: How many Nigerian fortunes have you tried to recover from those princes down on their luck?
“It’s illegal to believe you unlawfully lost an election and to seek redress in court?”
It should be, after the election has been certified, and the results formally accepted to complete the transfer of power. To do anything else is to enter into a competition for sovereignty, in an attempt to replace the People, with yourself as the new sovereign. It does not make it better to try to do that via the People's courts, it makes it worse.
It's of course not illegal to "believe" anything, no matter how crazy. One can believe in Xenu or UFOs or Jesus or 2000 mules or 5G causing autism or that the sitting vice president can simply pick whatever election winner he or she wants. All perfectly legal.
It is not lawful, however, to attempt to overthrow the government or steal an election based on those crazy beliefs.
Haha yeah, people try to overthrow the government by going to court and pressing their claims!
Good one.
I don’t read Chief Justice Roberts’ comments as “chiding” the appelants. Or as being critical in any way. He simply acknowledged the reality of their strategy. They wanted an up-or-down decision by the U.S. Supreme Court on the Independent State Legislature theory. They didn’t want a decision on other grounds. They got it. In that respect, Chief Justice Roberts is merely acknowledging their litigation strategy’s success.
It’s true they had wanted an up decision and what they got was a downer. But they got a merits decision on their legal theory. They successfully manouvred a reluctant Supreme Court majority into deciding the case on the theory they had used the case as a vehicle to consider.
So, questioning the Justices' ethical choices is the Left trying to obliterate the Court... but Blackman is fine criticizing the Justices' "persnickety" approach to oral argument and accusing them of "donning a straitjacket" when the litigants selected other arguments for strategic reasons.
It's only histrionics when the other side is speaking.
"conservative lawyers will need to have a serious moment of reflection. Having a "6-3" Court is not enough. Arguments must cohere at all levels"
Can you imagine? Requiring lawyers make coherent legal arguments when they bring cases to the Supreme Court, instead of just appealing to naked policy preferences? What's next, expecting some analysis of relevant precedent? Intolerable!
Now do all those gay marriage and tranny cases.
The gay marriage plaintiffs were fortunate to have been represented by some of the best litigators in the country. Had they been represented by Josh Blackman or counsel of similar caliber, they probably would’ve lost.
Haha yeah, I like all the relevant precedence of state licensed gay marriages and government assignments of dignity to romantic configurations. And how men have ALWAYS been viewed as real authentic women whenever they put on lipstick and a dress!
That happened all the time! So much precedence! And no policy wrangling!
IANAL, but it seems like there have been several cases of the Supremes instructing the Red State AG plaintiffs to do their homework. “We want to give you the result we want, but you lazy a-holes have to give us something to work with.” It’s sort of like the Geology professor telling the Rocks for Jocks class, “I want to give you Bs on your paper, but you have to hand in a paper.”
Professor Blackman’s ability to trigger the Conspiracy’s band of basement-dwelling wannabe-Marxist commenters into impotent apoplexy reliably delivers a chuckle.
What's a wannabe-Marxist?
A Marxist with a capitalist millionaire Daddy.
Where does one get one of those?
Marx himself had one of those (Engels). Nothing wannabe about it.
That's quite the assortment of words you've got there. Are you one of the professor's students?