The Volokh Conspiracy
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"Hamtramck Council Approves Banning LGBTQ+, Other Flags on City Property"
Actually, the resolution just dictates what flags may be flown on city flagpoles; and that, I think, is constitutionally permissible.
So the Detroit News (Shawntay Lewis & Mark Hicks) reported yesterday:
City officials said the resolution was not rooted in division.
"It basically is council's attempt to keep the city's flag poles neutral," City Manager Max Garbarino said Tuesday.
"Last year there was a pride flag up there, and there was a dust-up in the community in regard to that. There was a lot of the community that was for it. There was a lot of the community that was against it.
"The thought process, I believe, is that it potentially could go up here again this summer. And this is basically a resolution specifically just saying these are the only flags we want in an attempt to stay neutral on the topic." …
[Garbarino] added he has "received some verbal requests from people representing some religious groups, and I expect more requests if we allow the flag of one group to be flown."
In 2022, Hamtramck seated its first all-Muslim city council and mayor. The council raised eyebrows in January when it approved updates to the city's ordinance outlining how residents can perform religious slaughters privately.
Here is the resolution:
RESOLUTION TO MAINTAIN AND CONFIRM THE NEUTRALITY OF THE CITY OF HAMTRAMCK TOWARDS ITS RESIDENTS
WHEREAS, the City of Hamtramck is one of the most diverse cities in the United States, in which we should proudly promote and embrace its diversity; and
WHEREAS, the City must and will serve and treat its residents equally, with no discrimination, or special treatment to any group of people; and
WHEREAS, the City has authorized in the past, the Human Relations Commission to install nations flags on the City flagpoles to represent the international character of the City, Resolution 2013-102: and
WHEREAS, each religious, ethnic, racial, political, or sexually oriented group is already represented by the country it belongs to; and
WHEREAS, the City does not want to open the door for radical or racist groups to ask for their flags to be flown; and
WHEREAS, this resolution does not in any way, shape or form infringe upon the fundamental right of an individual or business in the City of Hamtramck to engage free speech. Nor does this resolution limit speech by public employees provided that such employees engage in such speech in a protected time, manner and place.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of Hamtramck, Wayne County, Michigan, that the government of the City of Hamtramck does not allow any religious, ethnic, racial, political, or sexual orientation group flags to be flown on the City's public properties, and that only, the American flag, the flag of the State of Michigan, the Hamtramck Flag, the Prisoner of War flag and the nations' flags that represent the international character of our City shall be flown.
This seems to be constitutional, and I wouldn't even describing it, as the article title does, as "banning" certain flags "on city property." The resolution is limited to "City flagpoles"; if a private person wants to carry a flag on a city street, or display it at some booth at a festival in a city park, the resolution wouldn't forbid that. Nor is it really a "ban" in a meaningful sense: Rather, it's the city defining the content of its own speech. Whenever a government entity decides what to say, it has to decide what not to say, but that isn't generally a ban, just a deciding to put up a permanent monument to the Union dead in a city park isn't a "ban" on monuments to the Confederate dead or the Soviet dead or the French dead.
To be sure, in Shurtleff v. City of Boston (2022), the Court held that an unusual flag-raising program created a "limited public forum" for private speech, from which the government couldn't then exclude certain flags. But note how the Court described the program:
This case concerns a flagpole outside Boston City Hall. For years, Boston has allowed private groups to request use of the flagpole to raise flags of their choosing. As part of this program, Boston approved hundreds of requests to raise dozens of different flags. The city did not deny a single request to raise a flag until, in 2017, Harold Shurtleff, the director of a group called Camp Constitution, asked to fly a Christian flag. Boston refused. At that time, Boston admits, it had no written policy limiting use of the flagpole based on the content of a flag.
It was this general allowance of a vast range of flags that made this, in the Court's view, a forum for private speech. But the Court stressed that other cities need not do the same:
Boston could easily have done more to make clear it wished to speak for itself by raising flags. Other cities' flag-flying policies support our conclusion. The City of San Jose, California, for example, provides in writing that its "'flagpoles are not intended to serve as a forum for free expression by the public,'" and lists approved flags that may be flown "`as an expression of the City's official sentiments.'"
All told, while the historical practice of flag flying at government buildings favors Boston, the city's lack of meaningful involvement in the selection of flags or the crafting of their messages leads us to classify the flag raisings as private, not government, speech—though nothing prevents Boston from changing its policies going forward.
Hamtramck seems to be following the Court's advice, and limiting its program to flags representing American government (national, state, and city) and the American military (the Prisoner of War flag), as well as to other national flags representing a particular city message, which is of ethnic diversity. This formal policy may have been prompted by a desire not to fly a Pride flag; but the City is entitled not to convey such messages on its flagpoles, as well as other messages that might (whether rightly or wrongly) be seen as controversial (or for that matter other uncontroversial messages as well). And to the extent people disapprove of this policy, the solution on such government speech questions must generally come from the political process, not from courts.
For more on the legal background on this, see this post (which discussed a city's choosing to allow "Black Lives Matter" and "Defund to the Police" to be painted on city streets, but not other slogans). Thanks to Wayne Smith for the pointer to the Hamtramck story.
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It sounds simple. If they allow Pride flags, they also have to allow MAGA flags.
As Eugene explained in the OP, in most cases they could fly a pride flag without a MAGA flag (except how Boston did).
I'm not sure -- at what point are they creating a public forum?
In any case, I think it is a *wise* decision because flags declare ownership of territory and you are inherently going to offend people flying *any* flag other than the standard three.
Yea, in terms of the actual legal issues this isn't very interesting.
You're moving the goalposts, Josh. If they allow Pride (or MAGA) flags, it's inherently the speech of others that they are allowing. That is legally and morally very different than the government choosing to fly a flag in its own name.
It isn't necessarily the speech of others any more than flying international flags is the speech of others. If the international flags represent the international diversity of the city, the Pride and Progress flags could represent other aspects of city diversity. The city is capable of expressing official support for its LGBT citizens or any other aspect of its diversity in the same manner it uses international flags.
I don't disagree with Eugene's general premise that the city can choose to not honor that diversity in the same way it honors the flags of residents with ties to other nations. I only disagree that allowing Pride flags is "inherently the speech of others."
If "allow" means no meaningful involvement by the city in the choice of flag or its message, sure. But, I interpreted "allow" to be broader than that.
and not just "Pride" but all varieties of "Pride" Gay Pride, Straight Pride, Black Pride, White Pride, ummm
never mind
Frank
If they allow Pride flags, they also have to allow MAGA flags
Why? This is a false equivalence.
These represent different sorts of viewpoints.
A MAGA flag endorses a specific politician.
A pride flag does not.
The government gets to choose its message. Unless they allow anyone to lift a flag (or rent out flagpole space, as with sides of city busses, I wouldn't put that past a politician) then they can only put up flags for approved things.
They could have left out the list of flags they don't like. The effective part of the resolution is the exhaustive list of allowed flags. You can't fly an Anheuser-Busch flag because it isn't on the list, not because the company is perceived as taking a stand on a controversial issue.
Would the Confederate flag be considered a flag from another nation?
"WHEREAS, the City of Hamtramck is one of the most diverse cities in the United States,"
Of course, this is total BS. Most cities are actually more diverse than Hamtramck, which is mostly notable for having a majority of Muslims; When a majority of your population is from a particular group, that implies that you're LESS diverse, not more.
"Diverse" just means "not white people." The town could have a population of only black men that were cloned from the same person and they would still say it was "diverse."
Well, it's at least straw from a bunch of different types of plants, all bound together in a single, human-like shape...
The Court's free speech jurisprudence is a non-Originalist mess.
What, should we go back to trying to decide if the First Amendment only covers prior restraint?
I'm sure Thomas is up for that!
"*I'm* obsessed? You're the one with all the pictures of Clarence Thomas!"
https://netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/91q4/dirtypic.html
"obsessed?"
One need not be obsessed to be concerned about the intellectual and ideological bent of our supreme court justices.
And yes, I get the joke. Amazing as it may seem, it's not terrible.
Eth? We’re facing an eth here? We’re being ethed off? The folks in our dental fricative department have had to deal with a thorn in our sides for some time. But we haven’t yet had to deal with an eth.
Muslims . . . gays . . . this blog couldn't resist, even if it weren't desperate to divert attention from prominent current events.
Like Senescent Joe taking a $$10,000,000 bribe?? you'd think he could afford a little more secure place to keep his classified documents than his Garage. Oh, that's right, he's "Demented Joe" also, doesn't remember the $$10,000,000, doesn't remember the Classified Documents, doesn't remember the Garage, but does remember not to remember his Grand daughter....
Frank
Don't forget the non-partisan FBI hid the evidence for years. Don't forget that part.
They just have to say it's an open investigation and then they become immune to any and all sunlight.
It always works out good for the citizens when the governmental institutions get to exercise their power in secret. Historically speaking that is.
If this blog is the best that right-wing law professors can manage, I doubt the modern mainstream of legal academia has much to worry about with respect to a surge in conservative legal thinking (or hiring) at law schools (especially strong, reason-based instituitions).
Well, they do have the most (In)Famous Defensive Coordinator in Penn State Nittily Lion his-straw, the "Reverend" Jerry Sandusky.
These right-wing law professors want (and believe they deserve) to be taken more seriously by their employers and colleagues.
You are not helping them, Frank Drackman.
Actually, the resolution just dictates what flags may be flown on city flagpoles; and that, I think, is constitutionally permissible.
And the same goes for school libraries ? Just list the books that can be in there, and don't bother listing ones that can't ?
That is exactly what the town of Ludlow, MA is proposing -- that the Supt publicly list every proposed new purchase and then have the School Committee approve them a couple of weeks later.
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/education/ludlow-school-committee-taking-up-book-ban-proposal/
Does anyone else remember when VC poster Dale Carpenter wrote that post a while ago talking about how he wasn't worried about SSM and gay rights. You know, that society had gotten to the point where things were going to be okay.
I do. I also wonder if Prof. Carpenter ever wades into the toxic sludge that is the comment section on some of these posts, and questions that prior attitude.
Clearly, now that the city of Hamtramck has decided not to fly White Pride flags, they're going to start copying those other countries that throw people off buildings for being gay?
I think gay rights and SSM are completely safe. The anti-gay folks have turned their fire on trans people. At least for now, the majority agrees with them (but hopefully not into the future).
So you say. Just the trans people. But, as I'm sure you know, it isn't. Just like in Florida, where the bills that have been passed haven't just targeted trans people, and where numerous localities had to cancel any Pride parades.
The battle over trans rights is just the tip of the spear, and if you haven't been paying attention (or you live in a jurisdiction where it's not an issue) you probably aren't aware of the overall attack. Or, you know, just look at how people are so comfortable with their comfortable terms.
I see no sign of any pullback in support of SSM.
Well when Barry Hussein saw the SSM light….so strange, in 2008 Cranky John McCain was the SSM supporter, while “Progressive” Barry Hussein sucked up to those Saddleback Church Yahoos and was against it, pretty bad when it takes Senescent Joe to pull you on board…
Frank
How one squares the public approval for LGBT marriage with the Republican legislative attacks on LGBT citizens, I have no clue. The public elects and re-elects the legislatures that brand LGBT persons as pedophiles and then use that to pass anti-LGBT laws. There's a clear disconnect there.
What "legislative attacks on LGBT citizens"? What 'rights' do you think Trans citizens are losing?
The right to be sexual explicit with children in public?
The right to main and dismember children?
Making vague and terrible sounding accusations is all and good for politicians, but if you want to actually make an argument, you should try more facts and less hot air.
"gay rights" have become "gay access to other people's children's rights".
That's kinda problem for many people.
WTF is "gay access to other people's children's rights"?
That Prof. Carpenter continues to voluntarily associate his reputation and employer with this bigotry-infested blog is inexplicable.
Perhaps he might try to explain someday.
The POW/MIA flag is not and never has been content neutral. There may have been a moment at its inception when it represented good faith advocacy on behalf of POWs by their families.
To the extent that it is interpreted as permissible government speech now, it is government endorsement of what amounts to a long-standing and long-debunked politically partisan hoax—a hoax pursued by some for profit, and indirectly the source of the Rambo movies. When it was already long past time to get that ugly, divisive flag off the nation's flag poles, a craven congress instead acted to make it mandatory. Take it down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_POW/MIA_issue#:~:text=Considerable%20speculation%20and%20investigation%20have,the%20war%20concluded%20in%201973.
Since many people (rightly or wrongly) consider this flag to be a patriotic symbol, and since Muslims may still feel defensive on the subject of patriotism, we may have an explanation for the city government flying that flag.
They probably don't want to be subject to Internet memes about "OMG Muslims banned the POW/MIA flag!" at the same time that they're dealing with gay backlash about the pride flag.
This has been another SL shit-take. Brought to you by a lifetime of mediocrity and diminished mental capacity.
Wow, laying shade (is that what the kids today say? "Laying Shade") on John Rambo! I'd watch out, Sly may be pushing 80, but bet he could still but his size 13 boot where the sun doesn't shine. Not so sure what the "Hoax" is about, scores of US POW's were taken to Roosh-a, in-terror-gated, tortured, and executed, it's not even recent "History" came out in 91 after the fall of the old Soviet Onion.
Frank
SL, not sure where the "ugly, divisive flag" aspect is coming from.
Sure there is some debate about "live prisoners" and how much Vietnam (and maybe other countries) has/is helping.
Just not seeing where this anti-POW/MIA passion is coming from.
apedad, it isn't anti-POW/MIA. It is anti-scam, and anti-partisan. And somewhat incidentally, anti-ugly. Did you read the link?
Tell us you’re on the other side without telling us you’re on the other side.
They're all dead now, but the real POW/MIA issue involved USAAC bomber crews shot down over over Eastern Germany -- land which the Soviet Army then liberated (which is why we were bombing it -- it's why we bombed Dresden, but I digress).
Stalin refused to release them, and Truman did nothing beyond denying their existence. But I don't believe we got *anybody* back from the East, and there were statistics of how many of the 10-man crew could be expected to survive when a bomber was shot down -- we had the statistics from the prior bombing of Western Europe and the prisoners we and the British liberated.
Eisenhower continued the silence into the Cold War and it's one of the thing that people couldn't talk about, but knew. So 30 years later when Vietnam ended and we didn't get an accounting of a relatively small number of people (1,587), it wasn't accepted.
FYI: There are still 72,598 MIA from World War II, 7,580 MIA from the Korean War, 126 MIA from the Cold War, and six from conflicts since 1991.
I can live with the black flag because it flies for ALL of these men.
Lot of red herrings here, Eugene.
Let's keep it simple. Before, as you note, components of city government could have flown Pride flags on their flagpoles, and rejected flying other flags, without running afoul of the Constitution. But in order to avoid "controversy," the city council passed a resolution that would no longer permit this, limiting city flagpoles to flying only certain flags representing city, state, or national government, or other international flags. But this is not a "ban" because, well, reasons?
The premise that this all constitutes "government speech" renders this observation somewhat beside the point, but I might note in passing that there isn't really a "content neutral" way to distinguish between a Pride flag and a city, state, or national flag, is there?
deleted
Certain flags - such as the American flag, or the state/city flags, are inherent to the business of government. Government flags being, you know, government flags.
Others - like those of activist organizations, political movements, or social groups - are not.
Since it's "Pride Month"
White Pride World Wide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We've got alot to be proud of, Einstein, Sandy Koufax, Neil Armstrong, Jesus,
Like driving your car? flying in a jet? playing your Stratocaster? Thank a White Guy
Frank
Oh cool, a place that thinks they should be "neutral" on whether or not it's okay I exist. And, of course, Volokh supporting their "neutrality".
"Volokh supporting their “neutrality”"
No, he is saying it satisfies the Constitution.
Where did he say it was a good idea or that he supported it?
You're so fragile that you need to fly a flag to validate your existence?
What was your view of the snowflakes who jammed superstition into our national Pledge of Allegiance, hoping to induce first-graders to mouth that nonsense?
I’m Shocked, Shocked! Shocked!!!!! “Reverend” Jerry Sandusky-Kirtland, you just made a funny, sun, a knee-slapper, a grin-renderer, “Superstitious nonsense into our national Pledge of Allegiance” I’m sure you don’t get the Irony of the “Reverend” “Arthur D. Kirtland” bringing up the Pledge, with it’s final 4 words. “And Justice For All!!!!” because that part’s certainly Bullshit, the BM’s matter crowd burns down Churches, nobody shot, nobody killed, Ashlee Babbit, just exercising her right to redress Grievances, gets popped a new A-hole in the forehead by some AA mongoloid… Hunter Biden leaves a 9mm in a trashcan, that he bought ill-legally, no charges,
Frank “”You’re out of order! You’re out of order! The whole trial is out of order! They’re out of order!”
If Hamtramck doesn't fly the fruit flag, it negates your existence?
Strictly the complaint was not that his/her/its existence was being denied – a strange idea popular with trans activists – but that one should not be neutral about whether the existence of gay people is OK. (I assume EscherEnigma is identifying as gay rather than trans.)
Obviously there’s a difference since not being OK with someone’s existence is somewhat severe.
On the other hand, few people would say they were “OK” with the existence of rapists, or pedophiles or people with serious congenital diseases etc. Which doesn’t necessarily mean that we all wish to squish such folk out of existence, but that we wish such people were not rapists, pedophiles or people with serious congenital diseases, but instead were, well, normies. So not being “OK” with gay people does not necessarly connote a desire to exterminate them (which would be difficult since they are brewed afresh daily) but may be no more than the preference that they were straight.
Flying a flag makes a difference over whether or not you exist?
Damn, talk about fragility…..
Who told you the rest of the world was required to cater to your whims?
If you can’t exist without everyone catering to you, then don’t.
Well, that ruffled some feathers.
First-up: Volokh has shown that they read these comments. If he feels my characterization of his support is wrong, he can correct me himself. He does not need any of you helping him.
Second-up: if you read "whether or not it's okay I exist" and somehow conclude I'm making a statement about how I can only exist with a flag, you're an illiterate moron.
Third-up: Y'all are calling me fragile? Seriously? That's hilarious. If I were fragile, I wouldn't be here.
Did EV ever claim "they" as his pronoun?
To the best of my knowledge, EV has never put their preferred pronouns in their bio.
That said, it's hilarious the things y'all pretend to be offended about.
Then why do you feel free to use "they/their"?
Because your concern trolling boors me.
Volokh doesn't need your help.
...and yet you respond. Validating your existence?
EV's existence is being erased!!!!
Where are you getting "offended"? He was asking a question.
"If I were fragile, I wouldn’t be here."
Come now, this is hardly Bile Central. This is a forum for very mildly expressed diagreements, on the whole.
Dude, I can't tell if you're sincere or a Poe.
Thou-eth Doth Render-eth Thou-eth Garment- too much-eth. I’m all for the Turd Burglars existing, gets rid of all those turds lying around. Funny that San Fran-sissy-co has such a big problem with people stepping in all the turds lying around.
When gay people have historically been hit by vigilante violence, up to and including murder, as well as police shakedowns, then we’re getting far away from the loving “go and sin no more” attitude of Christ.
But the pride flag goes way beyond this – it says “go and sin *on* more, and keep engaging in physically and spiritually dangerous sex acts” [and yes, straights do it too, etc. etc.]. The pride flag has also come to represent negating the existence (if we go by your histrionic standards) of Christian (and Musilim) bakers, tour guides, wedding venue owners, etc.
The pride flag proclaims “my sexual and political proclivities are good, and public policy should promote them.” I’m afraid I can’t agree with someone who equates that with a mere affirmation of existence. Gluttons exist, this doesn’t mean flying a fat pride flag over the hospital.
"Nor is it really a "ban" in a meaningful sense: Rather, it's the city defining the content of its own speech."
So many people don't understand that. I just read an article about a public school deciding not to teach a certain text in AP English and people calling it an "outrageous act of government censorship". What?
Don’t bother with facts.
I mean, by Brett’s logic, if a city in the United States has a majority of self-identified Christians, then it can’t possibly be diverse.
Oh, wait, that’s different, because Brett understands that Christianity isn’t a monolithic whole.
ETA- that said, WHEREAS statements in municipal resolutions are always kind of stupid.
more like a large perverse religion, try being your "Queenie" self in Raqqa Syria, Khorramshahr Ear-Ron, Tikrit Ear-Rock, and those are some of the more "Tolerant" cities.
Frank "Khorramshahr, 200,000 people and not one decent Kosher Deli"
Correct me if I am wrong, I am sure you will, but I somehow I believe that every one of those variants of Islam has pretty much the same attitude toward the Gay Pride flag.
It’s the same “Thou Shalt Not” except Islam is somehow much more serious about it.
Is that a joke?? I'll play,
One has a flying flag,
the other has flaming fags!!!
Frank
Queenie : I wonder if a municipal flag pole and a municipal library might serve different purposes?
Why would that make a legal difference ? I appreciate that if we were into an abridgement of free speech which required this or that level of scrutiny, the difference might be relevant.
But is EV suggesting that – or is he saying that the government’s decision that only this or that flag goes on the government’s flagpole is just government speech ? ie we’re not into balancing tests and levels of scrutiny we’re into government speech. Why would the rule be different as between government flagpoles and government libraries ?
...as we celebrate Fag Day (renamed from Flag Day) during Pride Month.
Can this white, male, right-wing, faux libertarian blog get through any discussion without an exhibition of bigotry?
Does it want to?
This is utterly insipid, but I suppose it reflects more on the inanity of the diversity argument in the first place. The fundamental issue revolves around discussing the diversity of what exactly which category ? This allows the usual dishonest Motte and Bailey where the term diversity is defined depending on the narrative being pushed and it is generally used as a rationalization to allow post-hoc discrimination.
Loki's argument used in its generic form is simply demonstrates that any bozo can choose a subgroup, feign outrage and claim that subgroup is diverse. It is entirely subjective criteria that says nothing. I could just as easily argue that a group of white, Lutheran males from a specific prep school are diverse because we have a diversity of names, birthdates and hair colors. You just need the proper outrage and disdain to push the narrative.
I like how you use race-mixing as an insult.
What is it about race-mixing that you find repulsive?
they could even have Barney Fag as guest splooger.
"Cretin"??
because you're obviously the grad-jew-mate of an Intergrated Pubic Screw-el you probably have no idea, that "Cretinism" is a real thing, caused by congenital Hypothyroidism, and where you end up looking like Barny Fag, and sounding just as stupid.
Congenital iodine deficiency syndrome is a medical condition present at birth marked by impaired physical and mental development, due to insufficient thyroid hormone (hypothyroidism) often caused by insufficient dietary iodine during pregnancy. It is one cause of underactive thyroid function at birth, called congenital hypothyroidism, historically referred to as cretinism (obsolete).[2][3] If untreated, it results in impairment of both physical and mental development. Symptoms may include goiter, poor length growth in infants, reduced adult stature, thickened skin, hair loss, enlarged tongue, a protruding abdomen; delayed bone maturation and puberty in children; and mental deterioration, neurological impairment, impeded ovulation, and infertility in adults.[4]
In developed countries, thyroid function testing of newborns has assured that in those affected, treatment with the thyroid hormone thyroxine is begun promptly. This screening and treatment have virtually eliminated the consequences of the disease.[5]
Frank
Whatever else people say, Queen, you've definitely mastered fourth grade writing.
I was going to write that Frankie doesn't have much to be personally proud of so that's why he had to list other white people.
But then I didn't.
"So much white fragility"
He's just mocking the concept by pointing out its absurdity.
I think the fragile one is the one calling people names for just listing off facts.
Isn't "White racist" redundant in your world, since you believe that whites and only whites can be racist?
...and fourth grade put downs.
Umm, lets see, I've
1: Anesthetized (some of them actually for Surgery) 1,000's of patients with only a few "Bad Outcomes" (for the Patient, I'm fine)
2: Have a whole 0.3 (that's 18 minutes) "Pilot in Command" time in an FA-18 Hornet, would have been more, but I "Overstressed" the Air Frame (that's a bad thang)
3: Was the "6th Man" and only White Boy (that was my Official name, "White Boy" I'd report to the Scorer Desk "White Boy in for #24") on my 7th-8th grade Hoops teams, (I was the only one who could shoot free throws better than 60%)
4: Started an IV and re-hydrated a popular singer who's name rhymes with Sheryl Crow, still have an autographed album as payment for my skills.
5: Have 2 hot daughters who both happen to be Engineers and Military Pilots, Looks and Brains, good thing my wife cheats on me...
Frank
Just the customary -- everyday -- bigotry encountered at this white, male, disaffected right-wing blog.
(If the Conspirators want me to refer to this blog's bigotry less frequently . . . operate a blog with less bigotry?)
Really? “I fuck your Mom” jokes?
When do you finish high school?
Fourth grade humor, too.
What catalogue do boys like you jerk off over these days? Do the bully football players still give guys like you flushies?
Fag is an awful epithet? You are also fragile. Pity.
1. OK
2. "think about what the First Amendment’s function is and what a library and flag pole does, could one be more valuable or central to that function? "
OK I've thought about it. The 1st Amendment's core function (leaving aside the core functions related to religion) is to prevent the government (initially federal) abridging the freedom of speech. That seems quite straightforward. It seems to have nothing to say about what the government itself might choose to say, and in particular there's no hint - and it would be daft if there was - that the 1st Amendment imposes some duty on the government as to what it may, may not, or must say.
I appreciate that one could come over all psychic and postulate a grand purpose of promoting the free flow of ideas, and from that construct a whole array of idea-spreading policies that the government should - and maybe should be legally obligated to - pursue. Such as creating universities and public libraries, creating newspapers and TV channels, stopping private internet channels from censoring users cotributions and so on. But that would belong to the world of fancy. The actual 1st Amendment's not that airy fairy. It's pretty specific and it's got nothing to do with what the government chooses to say.
Do you think a municipality is endorsing or making the speech in each and every book it carries in a library in the same way one might think it does so with the flag flying outside city hall)?
Not in precisely the same way perhaps, but generally government neither writes books nor designs flags . The creations are originally someone else's, but it's reasonable to believe that the government may or may not (according to its policies) be saying "We are the government and we approve this message." Or "we are the government and we do not strongly disapprove this message."
And whether the government chooses to endorse what someone else writes in a book, or not, has no connection with abridging the author's free speech. Unless the government buys up all the publishing houses, book shops and Amazons, of course.
If you had kids you'd know it's not an obsession
Epithets are always welcome at the Volokh Conspiracy -- well, if aimed at gays, Blacks, women, Muslims, immigrants, or other targets of right-wing bigogry.
But this blog censors commenters who make fun of conservatives, or criticize conservatives.
As it is entitled to do -- the Conspirators' playground, the Conspirators' rules. Partisan hypocrites have rights, too.
Shut up nigger. It's only OK when you use it when you're with your friends over a Bud Light?
They're my daughters, they're hot, in fact, if they weren't my daughters, they're the exact type of chick that wouldn't give me the time of day, actually even as my daughters, they barely give me the time of day. The older one, for her 18th birthday, I bought her an AR-15, she got me a shirt with a bullseye on the back. The younger one, in highschool she was voted "Most likely to Conceive", and my wife, she put superglue in my Preparation H!!!"
Frank
Wow, I''ll start posting links to paysites to prove my point,
Here's one with the Turd/Burglars/Rug/Munchers upset that Barry Hussein invited Rick Warren to his Iniguration, it's from National Pubic Radio, so its free (unless you pay taxes)
https://www.npr.org/2008/12/18/98453190/what-obamas-choice-of-rick-warren-really-means
here's the money shot
"This time around, Obama is the one who is catching grief. Certain critics on the left do not think Warren is the right spiritual leader to set the tone for Obama's presidency. And to the gay and lesbian community, the choice of Warren is seen as a symbolic slap in the face. In an open letter to Obama, Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, wrote, "By inviting Rick Warren to your inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table."
Frank
Question for Francis Mengele:
Metaphors: how do they work?
When the word is used to describe those, like Francis, who are willfully stupid for any reason, it's a double metaphor as the use of the word "cretin" to describe those suffering from "cretinism" was itself metaphorical. Literally, the word cretin means xtian.
Long before our Francis was spinning fabulist tales, some states in the midwest, including Wisconsin, worried that children would suffer the affects of iodine deficiency and iodine tablets were administered to children in grade school. Every school day, each of us received a "goiter pill." I'm not sure when this practice stopped -- probably third or fourth grade -- and it's not clear to me if we aged out of the requirement or if the practice stopped entirely at that time.
"Prior to the 1920s, endemic iodine deficiency was prevalent in the Great Lakes, Appalachians, and Northwestern regions of the U.S., a geographic area known as the “goiter belt”, where 26%–70% of children had clinically apparent goiter"
Iodine was added to table salt -- i.e. Iodized Salt.
What I never understood is why regular salt -- which is mined from ancient ocean deposits -- didn't have the same Iodine that the ocean has in it (which gets into the fish and then us when we eat them). Mercury does too, but I digress...
Sure. Now be a good Queen and go back in the closet.
None of the above.
Will make an exception for you.
In other words, that gays cease to exist.
Sure, you could put it that way. Though it seems to me that there would be something of a risk of misinterpretation. Thus :
(a) "It'd be so much better if children with leukemia ceased to exist"
(b) "It'd be so much better if children with leukemia were healthy"
I'd be inclined to avoid (a) when talking to the mother of a child with leukemia. A matter of taste I suppose, but you go right ahead.
Is that the royal "we" or have you been designated to speak for all twinkys?
I know why you don't want MY flag up, you're a sad bigot (and a Fag) If it sucks like a Fag....
You're a Dude?? I use my daughters HS yearbooks (have you seen HS girls these days?)
My Bad, it's MEGHAN McCain who was for SSM (you seen Meghan lately?? she's for "SSM" the Lesbians are like "No!!!!!")
but stand by my statement that Barry Hussein was against it, that's why the Homos got their panties in such a knot in 2008,
and this is from CBS News 2012, https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-apologized-to-obama-over-same-sex-marriage-comments/
"Cum Shot"
"On Sunday, Biden said he was "absolutely comfortable" with the prospect of people of the same gender getting married. At the time, Mr. Obama's official position on same-sex marriage was that he opposed it, though he was "evolving" on the issue. Biden's comments generated headlines and prompted a fevered damage control effort by the White House and Obama campaign, which insisted that Biden had not broken with the president."
Frank
Who do you think invented the Internets?? It wasn't "Darnell" (AlGore says it was him)
Frank
Or you could just make like dog shit, dry up and blow away in the wind.
Simple Supply and Demand, there's a finite supply of vaginas, and unfortunately for my daughters, no shortage of Peni trying to fuck them (not mine) On the one hand they've taken my advice and avoided Doctors, Lawyers, Indian Chiefs, (preferring the Firemen, Cops, Military, these stupid guys with their bravery, muscles, personalities) but ignored my advice to take the Lesbian Lane, what can I say, they love the Sausage.
Frank
Actually, I *have* -- the "Freshman 15" came early and with avengence. The local newspaper prints pictures of them in their prom dresses -- or in some cases, tents...
Yes -- and look at who Meagan married.
Says a lot, doesn't it...
https://people.com/tv/meghan-mccain-wedding-exclusive-photo-details/
1: How did a flight surgeon get to fly?
2: How did you "overstress the airframe" -- I believe this is a plane designed to land on carriers and that's a controlled crash.
3: Consequences?
Loki's argument just applied Brett's logic. If you think it's insipid, blame Brett, not Loki.
You read the words, but understanding eludes you. Let’s put it in simpler terms for the dim.
Brett argues that a city that is majority muslim is not diverse. This is an objectively true statement for some category of “diverse”. Loki argues that Brett’s argument is silly because he can choose a different category of “diverse” and subdivide an existing category calling the whole diverse. This is trivially true as well.
I note that the entire argument is vapid. You cannot take Loki’s position without accepting that the fact that claims of “diversity” themselves are utterly idiotic. Just describing something as diverse while avoiding specifying exactly which metrics are being used is simply driving a narrative and is utterly uninformative.
Milking the #ragefarm for meager ad revenue does seem kinda distasteful. But hey, reason.com can now boast that they're 4chan-lite with the added livery of a few Federalist law professors as window-dressing.
Navy/Air Force Flight Surgeons not only "Get" to fly, its required, they get Flight Pay, and when I went through the program, got a few months of Flight Training alongside the "real" flight students.
And if you're lucky enough to fly in a dual control aircraft, you'll usually get some "Stick Time" (I still get "Stick time" almost every day) which is how I got my glorious 0.3 hrs (there were only 2 dual control FA-18's, I know AF Flight Surgeons who have hundreds of hours in F-16D's which are all Dual-Control)
"Overstress" means exceding the G-limit. which I think was around 6-7 G's and occurred when I was a little too enthusiastic trying to get the nose on the "Bad Guy" Problem is jet gets taken out of service for inspections to make sure nothing got broken.
"Consequences" ?? That's why I only have 0.3 Hours (got close to 200 just going along for the ride)
Shouldn't have to say this, but Military Fighters aren't Southwest 737's making the CIncinnati/Atlanta Milk run, they're constantly turning/burning, diving/climbing and every Marine Corpse/Navy landing is a controlled crash, even on a 12,000 foot long runway
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BRgF4XjcVww
Frank "Call Sign "Doc"