The Volokh Conspiracy
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"Petitioner's Second Amendment Rights Are Not Dependent on Her Spouse's Acquisition …
of an unrestricted concealed carry pistol permit," says N.Y. appellate court.
The case arose before Bruen, when New York required a showing of special need to get a license to carry a gun for self-defense. The petitioner had argued that she needed a gun because she and her husband would often carry substantial sums of cash for business, but the New York licensing authorities responded that she "failed to explain why her stated self-defense needs were not already adequately and independently addressed by her husband's recent acquisition of an unrestricted concealed carry license."
The New York intermediate appellate court rejected that logic (Matter of DiPerna-Gillen v. Ryba, decided Thursday in an opinion by Justice Stan Prizker, joined by Presiding Justice Elizabeth Garry and Justices Michael Lynch, Molly Reynolds Fitzgerald and Eddie McShan). The court's main point was that, given the decision in Bruen, which came down while the appeal was pending, petitioner had a constitutionally protected right to carry, even without a showing of special need. But the court added:
To the extent that the Attorney General attempts, inexplicably, to justify the determination based upon petitioner's "fail[ure] to explain why her stated self-defense needs were not already adequately and independently addressed by her husband's recent acquisition of an unrestricted concealed carry license," we note that this was not a basis for the denial of this application and "judicial review of an administrative determination is limited to the grounds invoked by" respondent.
More to the point, the statutory framework contains no such required showing and, suffice it to say that petitioner's Second Amendment rights are not dependent on her spouse's acquisition of an unrestricted concealed carry pistol permit.
Here's more of the state's argument, from its brief:
[P]etitioner stated that she was seeking an unrestricted carry license to use for safety purposes when assisting her husband in his hobby of refurbishing woodworking equipment, explaining that picking up products to refurbish and delivering finished products involved traveling "usually out in no-man's land" and she and her husband "may have several thousand dollars on us …." … And petitioner further disclosed, but only when asked by respondent, that petitioner's husband had recently been issued an unrestricted carry license that he could use for these activities….
To [get an unrestricted carry license under the pre-Bruen scheme], petitioner was required to show proper cause for the significant expansion she sought for the use of her license. Yet the only evidence she submitted to make that showing was her testimony that she sought to use a firearm for safety purposes while assisting her husband with a hobby that often involved driving to unfamiliar locations with large sums of cash….
[P]etitioner failed to explain why her stated self-defense needs were not already adequately and independently addressed by her husband's recent acquisition of an unrestricted concealed carry license. As respondent's questions to petitioner suggested, petitioner's husband would now be able to bring his firearm when he and petitioner engaged in his hobby together. This fact alone refuted petitioner's claim that her participation in her husband's hobby presented "a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community or of persons engaged in the same profession."
Congratulations to Joel E. Abelove, who represents petitioner.
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Here is a far more important development with respect to America's progress toward sensible gun safety laws (but one the gun nuts at a white, male, right-wing blog would prefer to ignore).
Become part of the solution to this problem, gun fans, or get overrun by the culture war's winners in ways you likely will dislike.
Francisco Oropeza, a Mexican national.
So, first question is was he in the country legally?
from NPR "Morning Edition" earlier today
"Oropeza, who is originally from May-he-co (OK, NRP says "Mexico") is now surrounded by Police"
so who gives a fuck if he's legal or not? Obviously an "Hombre" with "Mucho Probleme"
Frank
One might expect that the nation's most popular firearm would be used in the largest number of shootings, but this isn't the case. In fact, it's so rare for AR-15 style rifles to be used in crime that leftists triumphantly preen and display the few solitary incidents that do occur -- as they do with the vanishingly rare instances of genuine racism. Regrettably for their misguided policy preferences, their demand for AR-15 spree killings simply obliterates the miniscule supply.
Remember when Saturday Night Specials and Uzis were the big fear.
"Saturday Night Specials" AKA guns the Hoi Poloi could afford, still have a few "Raven" 25acp Pistols, Gun Store in Alabama used to throw one in for free if you bought a handgun over $300 (not for rifles for some reason) I love S&W revolvers, so every time I bought one I got one of these stupid "Raven"s
actually not a bad pistol if you allow for the shortcomings of the 25acp, never jammed, and fits in a pants pocket, with your wallet,
Technically I think the "Son of Sam" and the A-hole who shot John Lennon's Charter Arms Revolvers were "Saturday Night Specials" seemed to function pretty well for those 2 (and I thought there was some "Code of Honor" among Criminals (Help us out here "Reverend"!!!!!!!!!!) how the eff are Son of Sam and Lennon's killer still alive??
Frank
Worth pointing out that the term "Saturday night special" was originally "niggertown Saturday night special" when the Democrats in the postwar south coined the term to scare voters into supporting victim disarmament statutes. The implication was that guns that freedmen could afford were inherently dangerous.
-jcr
'the few solitary incidents that do occur'
One or two massacred families won't hurt anyone.
Actually, the number of white Amuricans "massacred" by blacks is several thousand. The number of black's "Murdered" by whites is a fraction of that. There's a reason peoples who have a choice don't live in inner city D.C.(and I mean the real Inner City, not Georgetown or NW), Baltimore, Chicago, Atlanta)
Edgebot's stuck in Daily Stormer mode.
Nige is just (as always) stuck.
Bumble's just bumbling.
Like Hairy Truman said, I told the truth and you think it's Daily (it was "Sturmer" dumbass) Sturmer mode.
edgebot's edgey racism.
I am gratified by your choice not to engage with the substance of my post and instead rely on empty cynicism.
I think ignoring the massacres is the more cynical approach.
I didn't ignore them, I referred to them explicitly. You even quoted the portion of my post where I did so.
You downplayed them nicely.
We have laws providing for the prosecution, trial, and punishment of those accused of massacring families.
And these laws are cobstrained by the United States Constitution.
The arms industry keeping the carceral industry and the undertaking industry supplied.
Nige-bot showing off his vocabulary
edgebot knows imitation is flattery.
Uh, yeah. What do you think the 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th Amendments do? Almost half of the Bill of Rights deals directly with the prosecution, trial, and punishment of the accused.
History shows the real massacres happen once citizens are disarmed. 262 million citizens killed by their own government in the 20th century.
20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
You would think that ALK, who is quick to complain about traditional views and mores, would be troubled by the government trying to deprive a woman of a constitution right because based on the assumption that her husband ought to be able to protect her.
Apparently he would like to go back to those halcyon days when a woman's rights were entirely dependent upon her husband's situation.
the "Reverend"'s not really interested in the women
Does your husband permit you to post here?
the "Reverend" Sandusky is in the "Special Custody Unit" you know, even common criminals have a thang about Child Rape-ists...
One of your Victims with a firearm would have ended Jerry Sandusky's reign of terror pretty quickly
Hey Jerry, I followed your link, surprisingly not a NAMBLA dating site,
and wow,
One of May-He-Co's "Best & Brightest" (How do habla that in S-pan-yawl? don't know, don't care)
Murdered a bunch of Amuricans,
tell me how "45" was wrong again??
Frank
These are your fans, Volokh Conspirators.
And the reason your colleagues disrespect you and conduct office pools concerning your departure dates.
Carry on, clingers.
C'mon (Man!) I mean "Arthur"
you're stuttering worse than your State Senator, S-s-s-s-s-s-s-tuttering John Fetterman, who's looking much better after getting the Ready Killowatt treatment at Walter Reed...
Of course those Killowatts could have been used on someone who actually earned them, you know, a Veteran, but what the Hey, RHIP (I'd tell you what that means, but then I'd have to kill you(figuratively of course)
And since the Military's "Woke" I'm sure the Electron's that jolted the S-S-S-S-enators feeble Brain were obtained without the harm of any animals ....
C'mon (Man! I mean Coach) tell us how the Mexican who murdered Amuricans demonstrates how Amuricans don't need guns...
Frank
Frank Drackman is the defender and audience this blog courts and deserves.
Thanks, I guess
Thank you, Frank Drackman. You help make this blog what it is.
Re: Frank Drackman: I thought that was pretty good! I'd never say stuff that way...you're kind of picking at wounds and not giving back, doctrinally, to those who need (to get it back, doctrinally). (They hate your kind of stuff.) But your words are thoughtful, connected to real things (if in ugly ways), and no less than a few cuts above any of the trite, unoriginal, repetitive crap talk that's endemic these days.
Syntactically, grammatically, and phonetically, Frank's freestyle is downright sophisticated. If anybody enjoys some good old insults, Frank is practicing the art. Kudos.
A worthless mestizo illegal alien killed five equally worthless mestizo squatters? That's your idea of evidence as to why white men should be disarmed?
The solution lies in prosecuting the killer gor multiple murders.
Oh Artie, that is weak sauce, running away from YOUR BETTER's decision that a woman should just rely on her man to provide all the protection she needs!
No, no, no, you can't run away that easily.
Right you are. The government won't be able to fix this by micromanaging. When it comes to managing details, the government, frankly, sucks. What the government should do is something it has done quite well in the past: DELEGATE the problem to private individuals and groups - to the great, creative people of the USA. In particular, delegate the responsibility to the folks who understand guns and gun-safety and gun-ownership best.
The folks who understand guns and gun-issues best are gun-makers and gun-sellers. Second-best are the gun-owners (some of them). How can the government motivate these folks to solve the mass-shooting gun-problem? There is a simple answer.
Make them an offer they can't refuse.
The government should implement the following policy: if you sell a gun, and that gun gets used in a crime, or kills someone by negligence, then you suffer the same penalty as the criminal, regardless of all other circumstances.
They'll say "Hey, I can't read my customers' minds! How am I to know he's gonna use the gun in a crime?" The answer is: that's YOUR problem. You are the expert on guns. YOU figure out a way.
And, (word of advice) the first thing you need to do is stop thinking like a loser. "The problem is hard, how am I supposed to solve it?" That's how losers talk. No one ever accomplished anything that way. Be a winner. Be an American. Figure out how to solve the problem yourself.
Now apply that to automobiles.
Or anything else. A bunch of bank robbers coordinated their crime using cell phones? The Verizon employee goes to prison. As does the gas station employee who sold them the gas in the tank of their getaway car. Ad infinitum. A deeply unserious proposal by a deeply unserious person.
Actually it probably should apply to cars too. There are ways a car could be secured from theft and even from criminal abuse, if the owners and manufacturers could be motivated to develop them.
I believe they have these things called "Keys" and "Locks"
Your original comment was bad, but this one is worse.
The only way to prevent your car from being stolen is to not have one in the first place. Any physical system can be modified, any electrical one shorted, any electronic one hacked. Even ignoring that, you cannot prevent someone from just using a tow or lift truck and carrying your vehicle away - sometimes in less than 60 seconds.
And then, secure a car from "criminal abuse"? If it functions as a car - to mean that it transports people and things from place to place - then it can be used to transport criminals and illegal goods, too.
As Kleppe said: "A deeply unserious proposal by a deeply unserious person."
We could just pun8sh the thieves.
Like "Lance" in Pulp Fiction said about the dickless POS who keyed Vinces Malibu,
"They should be fucking killed. No trial, no jury, straight to execution."
Frank
I would love for the auto industry to directly bear the cost of the thousands of people they kill every year from air pollution alone.
Welcome to a horse drawn world. Nige will be the designated horse shit picker.
Yes, those are the two choices.
I'm guessing you'll pick the one involving horses
edgebot has never seen a real horse
So you don't own a car? never driven one? how much do you owe (OK, you're seriously making me reconsider my stance against Aborting Mongoloids)
Frank
Careful edgebot, your data centre is overheating.
Careful Nigebot, your lack of balls is a fatal flaw,
so let me guess (I'm a "Bot" so I'm just randomly generating vehicles)
Of course it's a SUV of some type ("I like the visibility) probably 2, because your husband needs one too, ("we'd like to take Pubic Transportation but it doesn't meet our needs (no blacks))
Seriously, you're like Mortimer Snerd with a Brain, or without a Brain, you're so stupid Mongoloids say "Duhhhhhhhhhhh, you're Stupider than me!!!!!!!" Your mom's so ugly, 2 black guys broke in to her bedroom, she yelled "Rape!!!!!" they yelled "No!!!!!!!"
Frank
Edgebot doesn’t know which defunct 4chan forum to scrape from.
Niges feelings hurt
edgebot has heard of these things called 'feelings.'
"The government should implement the following policy: if you sell a gun, and that gun gets used in a crime, or kills someone by negligence, then you suffer the same penalty as the criminal, regardless of all other circumstances."
What makes guns special in respect of this policy?
Guns are kryptonite to communists.
Guns are fondled by disaffected, on-the-spectrum, right-wing culture war casualties.
Until the culture war sifts this in relatively predictable ways. After that, the clingers will still get to whine and whimper about it.
the "Reverend" Jerry Sandusky ladies and gentlemen, expert in "Fondling"!!!
So since Hunter Biden's illegally purchased pistol was illegally possessed by a "minor", Hunter Biden should be charged with illegal possession of a pistol?? How about just charging him with the felony of lying on the form 4473(It's a felony, says it right there on the form 4473)
Frank
Sure!
says right there on the form "Punishable by up to 15 years in jail (that's alot) and $250,000 fines (not alot, for Hunter anyway, (probably what he spends on blow in a month)
Frank
They'll consult the experts in not getting sued, who will advise them to go into the knife business.
Until there's a law punishing knife manufacturers for crimes commited with knives, then they'll go into the chainsaw business...actually, never mind.
If a loyal Party member demonstrates a need for a gun he should be able to buy on at the Party-members-only store.
Your user name appears to be ironic. I suppose pharmacists should be responsible for when opioids are used in an overdose?
"The government should implement the following policy: if you sell a gun, and that gun gets used in a crime, or kills someone by negligence, then you suffer the same penalty as the criminal, regardless of all other circumstances."
This takes "stupid" to a whole new level.
Just for the sake of clarification: You mean that gun dealers should bear the responsibility for someone passing the background check system - run by the GOVERNMENT - and then later in life, perhaps even decades later, deciding to commit a crime?
Your moniker is highly inappropriate. You shall now be known as Idiotic Mr Toad.
I concur.
His proposal defies centuries of custom, tradition, and precedent.
You're an idiot. By this standard, anyone who supports integration and "civil rights" should be criminally liable for the actions of all black males. Game?
Suppose they make this counter-offee.
If any coo or prosecutor tries to enforce this onane law, not only do they die, their families die too.
Woyld you refuse that offer?
"For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" -H. L. Mencken.
You're an idiot.
-jcr
In my experience, a lot of problems have answers that are clear, simple, and right, but fairly unpleasant.
Like, want to lose weight? Eat less and get more exercise!
It's quite common, however, to confuse "unpleasant" and "wrong".
So the government should delegate things like nursing home care to people like the Carlyle Group, which do it so much better if freed from government imterference?
The Carlyle Group was extraordinarily efficient at its business. The problem is providing nursing care – indeed any services or value at all – is a very inefficient way of making money, especially from vulnerable populations.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/opinion/private-equity.html
All of this and not a mention of Matt Hoover.
"Hmmmmm...if this were insurance, it'd be wildly wrong to tell the wife she couldn't use her employee insurance, but rather must use her husband's. But I must weigh this against guns.
"To hell with it! Sexism wins!"
New York, a state inching closer to restoration of Human Rights. Who would have guessed?
No, what the legislature did was say "if the Supreme Court insists, you can have your permit... but you can't use your permit." The old permit available only to important people allowed carrying in more locations than the new permit.
And the 2nd Circuit is intentionally slow walking the case. Justice delayed is justice denied, but only if it comes to killing your unborn babies and "marrying" the man you like to erupt into.
Ok. Good. It's a start, but when will the unelected New York licensing authorities, and NY's elected AG be CRIMINALLY charged, fined, or imprisoned, for egregiously and aggressively denying this woman's civil rights?
If you or I egregiously and aggressively denied another their civil rights, that punishment would surely be visited upon us. Until these politicos are PERSONALLY punished with CRIMINAL prosecution, it's all a recipe for tyranny in *clown world*
The statute is on the books to charge them, but it requires a President who actually opposes gun control, and gets ticked off enough over stuff like this to force the DOJ to apply it. Which is going to require a LOT of force, because the DOJ, institutionally, is anti-gun.
Even Trump was only pro-gun because it was politically necessary to him, and when the NRA gave him a pass, he went for that stupid bump stock ban. To seriously accomplish what you're proposing, (And I agree that it's needed!) we'll need a President who isn't just 'conservative' out of political expediency, we'll need something we haven't seen in the modern era: A President who actually IS a conservative.
The Attorney General of New York must be taking lessons on marriage from the Dowager Countess:
https://youtu.be/uSZpYRqVszQ