The Volokh Conspiracy
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Revisiting the First Trump Impeachment
New article in symposium on the law and politics of impeachment now available
Missouri Law Review just released its new issue featuring a symposium on the law and politics of the impeachments of President Donald Trump. It includes an all-star cast of contributors, including Frank Bowman, Rep. Jamie Raskin, Sen. Dick Durbin, Michael Gerhardt, Gene Healy, Brian Kalt, Michael McConnell, Victoria Nourse, and me.
My article in the symposium is focused on the first impeachment. From the abstract:
Measured by any yardstick, it is hard to think that the first impeachment of President Donald Trump was particularly successful. But there are important broader questions raised particularly by the first Trump impeachment that have significance for how we think about the impeachment power moving forward. If future impeachment efforts are to be more successful, or even useful, Congress will have to understand the nature of the constitutional task that it is undertaking.
As the House contemplates making use of the impeachment power and the Senate contemplates whether to convict an officer in an impeachment trial, there are some basic questions that must be asked in any impeachment episode. What is an impeachable offense? Is this kind of behavior impeachable? Does this instance of misconduct justify impeachment? It should not have been hard for the House to answer the first two questions in regard to the first Trump impeachment. The third question was the more challenging to answer, and the House struggled to answer it.
This essay argues that abusing the powers of the presidency for the sake of purely personal interests is well within the traditional scope of the impeachment power. In order to assess whether an officer has abused power in that way, members of Congress must take care to deliberate across the political aisle so as to identify and resolve possible good-faith explanations for an officer's behavior. A House that does not bother to curb its own partisan instincts risks abusing its own constitutional authority by rushing headlong into an impeachment that does not meet the constitutional standard of high crimes and misdemeanors. Even after the House and the Senate have come to an understanding of the scope of impeachable offenses and each has satisfied itself that an officer has committed deeds that fall within that scope, they must still decide whether an impeachment and a conviction and removal is warranted. Those decisions are necessarily political judgments about what risks the country faces and how they are best navigated. If Congress is to contemplate pursuing an impeachment, it should have a clear view of what it is trying to accomplish and why impeachment is the best path to getting there.
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We will have a bumper crop of impeachments in the spring...
And unlike the last two impeachments, these will have a basis in fact.
Real facts, not like transcripts or tapes, not staff testimony, but real fact from the internet.
Biden BRAGGED about his quid pro quo.
Biden spoke about it because he could defend it. He has witnesses he can call. He will also be able to call some of the pro-Putin people who weaseled out of testifying at the Trump impeachment. Waiting to hear Guiliani and Manafort deposed on Ukraine.
"Biden spoke about it because he could defend it."
No, he really couldn't. He was going to withhold funds passed by Congress for Ukraine if they did not fire the prosecutor investing the guy paying his son tons of money.
"He has witnesses he can call."
The other witness said it was a quid pro quo and he was pressured to fire the prosecutor.
"He will also be able to call some of the pro-Putin people who weaseled out of testifying at the Trump impeachment. Waiting to hear Guiliani and Manafort deposed on Ukraine."
Sure. And they can bring out Hunter, Shokin, and Petro Poroshenko. I bet that would go well. Zelenskyy already said he was not pressured by Trump.
Biden wasn’t and couldn’t do shit. It shows this is a smear that it gives the Vice President the power to make spending decisions somehow.
"Biden wasn’t and couldn’t do shit."
Biden told Poroshenko the billion in loan guarantees will not be given if he did not fire the prosecutor. A position he, literally, had zero power for. And the claim that "Obama told him to do it" is immaterial as Obama ALSO could not do it.
This is from Biden's own mouth. You can dispute it all you wish, but what he proudly said he did is out there.
"It shows this is a smear that it gives the Vice President the power to make spending decisions somehow."
...you're aware that the first Trump impeachment was over far less than this, right?
Why do you think that?
Executive cannot override legislation passed by Congress.
I know. Now cite the statute you think Obama overrode.
You're woefully ignorant of the facts. There were no funds appropriated by Congress which Biden withheld. That was Trump. Congress had authorized loan guarantees, and the President had the discretion under the law authorizing the loan guarantees to set the conditions for providing them to Ukraine. Biden delivered those conditions to Poroshenko.
"There were no funds appropriated by Congress which Biden withheld."
Sheesh. That's only because the Ukrainians caved. If the mob enforcer gets his "insurance payment", your store doesn't catch fire, either.
Basically you're pushing the limits on excusing what Biden did, and not expending even a minimal effort at seeing how Trump could legally do what HE did. And transparently so.
Biden openly pushed to get rid of a corrupt prosecuter, Trump secretly wanted them to create headlines that smeared his political opponent on the eve of an election.
No. Basically, you're not a lawyer and also didn't read the post, or the previous ones that I posted that explained this. These sorts of programs (both the loan guarantees and the military aid) are always conditioned by Congress on certain conditions having been met.
In 2015, the conditions hadn't been satisfied, so the administration was not legally obligated to issue the guarantees. In 2019, the conditions had been met — that had been certified (and Trump never claimed otherwise) — but he invented his own personal conditions involving doing him political favors.
You mean how a military subordinate didn't agree with his commander's foreign policy (the guy who actually makes foreign policy) so he subverted his commander and didn't face any accountability at all but instead became a Democrat hero?
No one subverted Trump's authority, and certainly not Vindman.
Bullshit. Vindman testified he disagreed with Trumps Ukranian policy and even inserted his own.
Then impeach Vindman!
Bullshit is right. Why do you lie like this? I mean, someone like Tucker Carlson makes millions of dollars for doing so, so it's understandable. But what do you get out of it? Vindman did not "subvert" anything. This is complete gibberish.
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2019/11/02/alexander-vindman-troubled-trumps-attempt-subvert-u-s-foreign-policy-thats-big-problem-n119189
Vindman testified the President was "subverting" US Foreign Policy and then implemented his own.
This is testimony on the record, maybe that's why Democrats have never heard of it. It's reality and their mind masters ordered them not to believe what they hear with their own eyes.
So this is where to you get your awful takes.
There is nothing in the article about any policy getting set. The main thing is fainting couch level horror at anyone thinking anything the President does could subvert foreign policy, and whistleblowing about it.
It’s ridiculous. We don’t worship our President as always right in this country.
You seem to have real trouble with that bedrock anti authoritarian concept.
I get my awful take from Vindman's own testimony and from knowing that it's the US President who sets Foreign Policy.
Apparently, you don't think the US President sets foreign policy, but some unelected government officials do.
And you seem to believe having unelected civil servants dictating foreign policy is "bedrock anti-authoritarian".
What a stunning and revolting belief that is.
Setting foreign policy doesn’t mean the President is kind and overrides Congress’ appropriation power.
Walk me through how any civil servant dictated anything here?
Vindman confessed to it in his testimony.
The confession is referenced in the RedState article provided earlier.
Apparently you think the president is a dictator rather than the head of one branch of government, and you think Congress is "unelected government officials."
I read the article. Confessed to what? What policy did Vindamen make?
His link is also idiot rightwing propaganda. It actually makes people more stupid, as you can see.
I have no idea what "then implemented his own" even means, and nothing in your link actually supports any such claim.
Trump was indeed subverting U.S. foreign policy. Congress legislated aid to Ukraine, and then Trump illegally refused to provide it.
When Biden threatened to withhold $1B of foreign aid, as he bragged about doing, what would you call that?
The same thing as Trump or something different than Trump?
Something different than Trump. First, of course, is that Biden was just the messenger. You understand that he was just the Vice President at the time, and as the Vice President, he didn't have the legal ability to withhold complimentary peanuts on Air Force One, let alone $1B in loan guarantees, right?
Second, you understand that each statute enacted by Congress is different, right? Some statutes unconditionally appropriate money for a particular purpose. Other statutes impose conditions, or provide some discretionary authority to the executive as to how the money will be spent.
(I'll give you a Trump-related example: Congress passed a law a long time ago ordering that the U.S. embassy to Israel be moved to Jerusalem, and appropriating money for that. But then it authorized the president to waive that requirement if he issued a formal determination that it was in the nation's interest to do so. Before Trump, every president had periodically issued such determinations. Trump declined to do so, and allowed the move to go forward. (Neither Trump nor his predecessors did anything wrong in this regard; they all complied with the applicable federal law. What would have been unlawful would have been to fail to make that determination, but then shrug and say to Israel, "I'll only move the embassy if you do something for me in exchange."))
JFC the President SETS US foreign policy. To argue against this as you do is pure idiocy.
The constitution assigns to the president
(a) the role of CinC of the armed forces (but not the power to declare war or to make rules for the armed forces);
(b) the power to negotiate treaties (but not the power to unilaterally make them); and
(c) the power to receive ambassadors.
It does not assign to the president the power to "set foreign policy," a nebulous phrase to begin with.
The bullshit is on you. Vindman testified he agreed with Trump's official Ukraine policy. He even praised the decision to provide lethal aid to Ukraine. What he disagreed with is Trump's surreptitious sending his personal attorney to conspire with an associate of the Russian mob to extort Zelensky into announcing a pretend investigation of the Bidens and Crowdstrike. Which wasn't Trump's foreign policy.
Both of Trump's impeachments were well grounded in fact. The fact, corrupt moron confessed to the underlying conduct in public, after all.
Try being less stupid.
If what Trump did was corruption, what do you call what Biden is doing to Trump and DeSantis?
Anyone have any idea what on earth BCD is pretending to refer to?
You havent' heard about the federal investigations into Trump and DeSantis?
Do you live on planet Earth?
You didn't say "federal investigations into" them. You said "what Biden is doing to" them. Although Trump thought that the AG was supposed to be his personal lawyer, that is not actually correct. The AG represents the government, not the president.
And, no, what "federal investigation into" DeSantis?
Biden isn't doing anything to Trump or DeSantis. Trump has done to himself what's happening to him. Same with DeSantis. Trump kept documents which, by law, belong to the National Archives (even if declassified), and DeSantis is the one who decided to engage in human trafficking.
If Biden is to be impeached it will be without Republican support. Who wants a President Harris? If she does move into the White House the only way she can ensure that she is not deposed herself is to pick a VP even less able than she. Perhaps Masie Hirono?
Welcome back Dr. Ed 2.
Hope the sanitarium stay worked out well.
One observation I had from listening to NPR reporting / interviews with the players during the week of hearings was that was a behind the scenes turf war between the state department and the trump administration as to which Ukranian group to support, partially associated with the firing of the state departments preferred ambassador. Hints that the Trump administration was killing the state departments golden goose.
Based on the NPR reporting, indications of broader / deeper corruption than just the Hunter/Bursima issue that the state department and NPR were trying to hide.
I can't imagine any "good faith explanations" for what Trump did. Can you?
There was probable cause for an investigation.
There wasn't. But if there were, then why didn't Trump, you know, order an investigation? Why did he keep his AG out of the loop? Why did he use his private attorney to make unofficial back channel contacts with the Ukranians rather than going through the actual formal process set up by treaty for international investigations? And why did he care only about having Ukraine announce an investigation rather than having Ukraine actually conduct one?
David
Care to explain why Hunter Biden's corruption did not rise to the level of probable cause warranting an investigation
He just did, genius,
Sarcastr0 23 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"He just did, genius,"
Care to show us where he explained why Hunters' corruption did not rise to the level of probable cause warranting an investigation.
Fake genuis - Try to base your response on actual facts, not fake partisan talking points you always rely on
I'm curious, what evidence did Trump and/or his unofficial back-channel personal representative present to Ukraine that would have constituted probable cause?
perhaps the $83k monthly payment from Bursima or his Dad claiming in interview that he got investigation of bursima corruption shut down/ got prosecutor fired.
The actual timeline - not whatever you have in your head - is messed up for the implication you are trying to make.https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/1/20891510/hunter-biden-burisma-ukraine-shokin
Where and when were these allegations produced as evidence and as probable cause?
The corruption happened in Ukraine so the Ukrainian authorities have primary jurisdiction
It's adorable to watch you squirm around under questioning and throw out phrases you've heard before in hopes that you come off looking correct.
The laptop had more than enough evidence to support probable cause.
How do you have any idea about that?
How could the alleged Hunter hard drive image revealed in 2020 have provided probable cause in support of an investigation in 2019?
Someone obviously time traveled backwards and told Trump there would be evidence in the future so that's why he wanted the investigation to start.
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. Either
1) Hunter Biden (or Joe) broke U.S. law in some way, in which case it is the job of the U.S. government to investigate it; we might ask for assistance from a foreign country in gathering information, but we do not outsource the investigation. There's no "you investigate and then we'll prosecute."
Or
2) Hunter Biden (or Joe) broke only Ukrainian law, not American law, in which case it's none of the U.S. government's business in the first place, and the U.S. government has no business pressuring them for an investigation at all.
I see.
So Americans can not report foreign crimes to foreign authorities.
Via the President of the US?
What a fool you have made of yourself in this thread.
What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody, least of all Trump, reported any crime to anybody. Trump asked Ukraine to announce an investigation of Biden.
What evidence did Trump have that Hunter Biden committed corruption in Ukraine?
It's funny that you claim there wasn't probable cause for an investigation, and then later a laptop comes to light that uncovers deep corruption and illegal activity involving both Hunter and Joe Biden.
But yeah, no probable cause at all ..
But...but...50 former intelligence officers swore that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation! All good citizens must trust the system!
Trump should never have investigated on his own, he should have resorted to the FBI! The same FBI that worked hand in hand with the dems to create and continue the Russian Hoax. The same FBI that had Hunter's laptop but did nothing. That is how the system is supposed to work! Anything else is illegitimate, illegal, and a clearly impeachable offense!
A supposed laptop — that nobody has ever seen — did not "uncover deep corruption" or "illegal activity." Quick, identify the crimes in Ukraine that this alleged laptop "uncovered."
There wasn't, but, assuming there was, why didn't Trump call for an investigation instead of sending Giuliani to conspire with Dmitro Firtash, an associate of the Russian mob, and push for Zelensky to declare an investigation instead of having an investigation?
A couple of days ago I linked to the call transcript in which Trump literally asked for an investigation. I was told it was irrelevant, essentially because the next time he called he asked that the investigation he had previously asked for be announced.
No; you were told that you were confusing two different things. We're talking about Trump demanding that the Ukrainians announce an investigation of Joe/Hunter Biden. The transcript involved Trump asking Zelensky to look into the batshit crazy DNC server conspiracy theory, which had nothing to do with the Biden, but was instead about Hillary.
What was the probable cause, and, if there was, why didn't he ask for an investigation instead of just Zelensky announcing one?
If there was probable cause for an investigation he could have had Barr coordinate with Ukraine's law enforcement to have an actual investigation done. One which didn't tip off the suspects with a press conference before it was even started. You know: the way actual investigations are done. Moreover, there's a federal law against breaking the laws of other nations, so it's not like Barr lacked the ability to open an investigation here on Hunter Biden if there was actually evidence to support probable cause.
You realize that this needs to be more specific, as it could actually be said pretty much every day about something, right?
No, it can't be said about anything. There is no "good faith" explanation for somebody strangling an infant in its crib, for example.
Trump held up previously appropriated military aid until Ukraine announced an investigation into Hunter Biden. It's on tape, couched in the nonspecific but definite language of a mob hatchet man. I don't think any other word applies here except "extortion".
What court ruled he had to release the military aid?
This is a pretty shitty game.
If a coup did rule that was wrong, you would just accuse it of hating Trump.
Your brain has bent so Trump can do so wrong,
That kind of worshipful attitude about our leaders is not how we roll in America. Quit being so divine right of Trumps and get with the times.
Red herring. There was no need for such a court ruling, once he released the military aid shortly after the whistleblower came forward about his alleged attempt at election-related extortion.
So no harm, no foul then.
Yes, go with that argument.
Your Honor, I released that baby I kidnapped. Why the witch hunt?
SCOTUS, when it held the idea of an inherent impoundment power unconstitutional.
Maybe that decision needs to be revisited (impoundment).
You probably know the case name, but that was when Nixon was in office, right? The SCOTUS decision you are talking about. I am curious how a POTUS declining to spend money appropriated by Congress is unconstitutional. How was that derived? I am just curious, not making a political thing out of it.
The president has a duty to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. While prosecutorial discretion has always been baked into the notion of the executive, the flexibility to decide whether to fully carry out other laws is not. If Congress appropriates $50 billion on a bridge to nowhere, the president can't say, "Nah, don't feel like it." That's the law.
Now, in fact, most federal laws expressly vest some discretion in the executive branch. (I've noted before — not in the context of Ukraine aid specifically — that Trump exposed the weakness in this approach. These laws are written assuming good faith on the part of the executive. Partisan politics, sure. But not the president simply saying up is down and black is white. An underlying core of actual truth, which Trump — unlike even our most corrupt past presidents — didn't possess.) So, for example, most foreign aid — and this does include the Ukrainian package Trump held hostage — is conditioned on a formal finding from the appropriate departments that various conditions are met: that past aid isn't being misused; that the country is making progress on corruption or whatever other issues we care about for a particular country. And again — despite what the Trumpkins and their scorn of the so-called Deep State want to believe — this is expected to be a technocratic decision by the appropriate unelected bureaucrats, not a political decision by the president and his advisors.
In the case of the Ukrainian aid package, it was conditioned on, inter alia, the State Department certifying that Ukraine was making progress in fighting corruption. But State had done that! (And Trump never tried to rescind that; he likely didn't even know about it. He just secretly tried to add his own private condition about announcing the investigation of Biden.)
David, this was a really great explanation that a guy like me could even understand. This was helpful. This part was hilarious (made me LOL), because I could picture a POTUS Trump actually saying it = If Congress appropriates $50 billion on a bridge to nowhere, the president can’t say, “Nah, don’t feel like it.”
One point I haven't really resolved in my mind. The technocrats (I am not saying that negatively, I mean they are the policy experts in their field) in the state department make their formal findings, and these findings guide the disbursement of money appropriated by Congress. All fine and good. Makes sense.
Now...They (technocrats) all work for the POTUS, as Executive branch employees. It seems to me the 'boss' can make a political call and upend the formal findings and institute something new. Is that wrong? Maybe. Could be. Is it illegal? Wow, that seems to go against the authority of a POTUS to direct his Executive Branch staff. Isn't the remedy that the Congress simply does not fund what the POTUS says is his alternative. At least, that is how I thought the system was supposed to work.
Appreciate the complete response. I learn, David. So thank you for that.
I think you missed my point, which was a statement about Trump, not about the world. On a regular basis, there is a revelation about Trump having done something. The MAGA two-step is "Trump didn't do it, and it was entirely justified that he did it." And I can't imagine that there are good faith explanations for why Trump did those things.
(As far as I know, he hasn't actually strangled babies in cribs. (Though he did deliberately steal them from their parents to punish their parents for sneaking across the border. And I can't imagine there are good faith explanations for that, either.))
I believe the Presidents argument was "I am the President, and I can do anything I want".
Or: I am the President, and in that capacity I am in charge of all foreign policy short of a declaration of war. So butt out, Congress.
False, unelected bureaucrats are in charge of all foreign policy. Like Ukrianian Lt. Vindman. He decides what the US FP is.
What policy did he make exactly?
That was the argument of some of Trump's supporters, yes.
(It's wrong, of course. The president is in charge of actual direct negotiations with foreign countries. That is not remotely the same thing as him being in charge of foreign policy, a much broader category.)
There was no subject to be negotiated.
"I'm the President and can do anything I want"
In many contexts, completely true.
Foreign relations, is largely true.
But not in the case of military aid approved by Congress, which he attempted to withhold for corrupt, election-related reasons.
Biden's impeachment is going to be a grand old party....
Do your damnedest, clingers.
Then, prepare for the fate of all disaffected, bigoted, worthless, ignorant Republican culture war casualties: Replacement. By your betters.
And you think you’ll be one of the “better”?
Everyone in my family has at least one advanced degree. I live in a properly educated, skilled, successful, modern community. I am not a racist, immigrant-hating, gay-bashing, misogynistic, Islamophobic culture war casualty. I attended no nonsense-teaching religious school. I prefer reason to superstition, progress to backwardness, inclusiveness insularity, education to ignorance, science to dogma. I have never attended a NASCAR event, a country music concert, a faith-healing event, a rattlesnake-juggling exhibition, or a revival meeting. I have never owned a pickup truck, chewed (or smoked) tobacco, worn a cowboy hat for more than a minute, watched an episode of Blue Bloods, or waved a Confederate flag.
What do you think of my chances in the settled-but-not-quite-over modern American culture war?
"has at least one advanced degree..."
So you are confessing that you are easily conned and then even after getting defrauded did it some more? And who is supposed to be the "better" here?
All family members have been thoroughly indoctrinated.
Why are education-disdaining losers fans of a blog operated by professors (some of whom are associated with legitimate schools)?
Clingers gonna cling. White, male, bigoted clingers in particular. Good luck with trying to wipe that stain off, Conspirators.
Education is a conspiracy. Resist!
Based on this list, you’ve had a pretty narrow range of life experiences, there, Rev. It would do you some good to go live in a place where you actually need a pickup truck. Stacking a cord of wood in the back seat of your Prius gonna get reaaal messy!
Even with a tarp, you're not going to get a full cord in the back seat of a Prius. Maybe a face cord, if you're really good at stacking, and don't mind the suspension bottoming out.
One of my BMWs is a GT -- plenty of cargo space.
One of my BMWs is a GT — plenty of cargo space.
For an educated person, you are too stupid to understand the response you provided is irrelevant. This is a weight issue, not volume issue.
People with marketable skills generally can afford delivery of appliances, cordwood, safes, mulch, and other heavy items. A 5-Series GT is at least as handy as needed by most people, and I am fortunate to have one. It is a magnificent vehicle. It might surprise some readers of this blog that plenty of wealthy Americans do not own automobiles, let alone pickup trucks.
Other than that, though, great comment!
A cord is -- by definition -- 128 cubic feet. It weighs a ton or more.
It ain't fitting in a Prius.
I confess I have no idea how much wood is in a cord, as I have no need to burn trees or spread carcinogens throughout my home on a regular basis. Why is this relevant?
Oh, now I get it: It's prepper talk.
From people who have convinced themselves that shooting a few squirrels for dinner is the best way to live.
You sound like a boring asshole.
Minorities are fleeing your awful ideology in droves.
A total waste of time if it's done. To date no President has been removed and impeaching Biden would only bring a certain amount of sympathy toward him. Most importantly if he was impeached and removed we would be in deeper shit with a President Kamala.
Fyring pan, meet fire.
No, it will be chaos. The current Republican leadership doesn't have the discipline to run an investigation. Right now, Thompson and Cheney are model for running an investigation and there is no Republican to match them.
BWA HA HA.
Hilarious. You're the funniest.
Wait and see. Bengasi 2.0 and what did the original Bengasi come up with, nothing.
Bengasi used the old rules of decorum. Now that Pelosi has removed all guard rails, things get easier.
Subpoenas for sitting congress critters, confiscating phones, subpoenas for congressional aides and any advisors and legal counsel.
The new rules are going to be fun.
I forgot, The speaker will hand pick all the members of the committee.
What Speaker Pelosi did was put together a very focused group to investigate. What you saw was methodical investigation. I doubt that a Republican Speaker could put together such a group. It is not the ability to appoint members or to subpoena records or subpoena testimony it is the ability to do it in a focused manner. The Bengasi hearing showed that Republicans lack the ability.
"What you saw was methodical investigation. "
...with no access to the actual testimony. Just incredibly edited clips of testimony.
"I doubt that a Republican Speaker could put together such a group."
They might include competency, which would be a massive change from the circus in there now.
I do hope to see the members of the committee subpoenaed and having their communications seized.
It's taken a long time and a TV producer to develop evidence that nothing happened and the ONLY person calling for violence or storming the Capitol is the ONLY person who is totally innocent for real.
So actual proving doesn’t matter, you just want state power used for revenge.
This is telling.
The 1/6 Committee has not spent any effort in proving shit. So, it's time to figure out why they did not even try to do so. And investigate them as harshly as they investigated others.
The rules have been set. Do not whine about it now.
I saw a lot of effort in proving stuff. I don’t know what you watched.
The rules have not been set, and I’ll call you out if you just want retribution as being for tribe before nation.
They've proven a lot of shit. You should have watched instead of relying on idiot rightwing media.
They've proven jackshit and, again, do not whine when the rules Democrats set get used against them.
It was successful at least one regard: it helped starkly render the distinction between the GOPers who truly didn't support Trump from the ones who did but were just embarrassed to say it.
And it also enabled Trump's unique achievement to become the only US president to be impeached twice.
Which amounted to one insofar as federal elected offices go.
What a pathetic fucking party.
Honestly, I can't remember even one article from either impeachment trial. It just seemed like "politics" to me. I wonder how many other normies feel the same.
Good point. But there aren’t a lot of “normies” in this comment section.
Are they normies or partisan activist leftists? I see a lot of hyper invested activist leftists here.
There are come liberals here, and a few leftists. But if the main thing you see is leftists, that's kinda amazing.
If you can't remember the events of 1/6, that says a lot more about you than about impeachment.
"Revisiting the First Trump Impeachment"
Sounds like fun.
In other news that is not so much of a *yawn* as rehashing Dem hissy fits from a few years ago, it took 12 hours for the corporate owned leftist media to transform a hippie crackhead nudist activist into a right wing white supremacist while framing the attack on Pelosi as the collective result of GOP rhetoric. Even for the professional scam artists that run this con job that is an impressive turnaround.
It illustrates that it's really not much of a stretch to believe other conspiracy theories, once you've breached the logic barrier over the first one.
This will not age well, I hope.
He was, like you, a Qanon nut turned Trumpist.
It's been hysterical watching you MAGAt morons disavow your own "walkaway" bleating points.
The attack on Pelosi seems to be getting stranger by the day.
I have to say as a somewhat regular guy I have video cameras on my back and front porch as well as inside my condo that make my cell phone beep when someone comes too close. Not to mention the condo's HOA has video cameras on 24/7 that will capture any vehicle entering or leaving the complex. It is hard for me to understand how a couple worth $US200,000,000 living a shithole city like Frisco with real crime problems does not have some type of security.
While I get the fog of being early in the investigation means not all the facts have been released, or are even known, there is so much strange stuff I am reading about the incident that so far it does not pass the smell test for me. What does seem to be known is the attacker is bonkers and a card carrying member of the unorganized crime syndicate. Breaking into a house at 2:00AM with a hammer is not the work of a criminal mastermind. While I have seen reports of other things that paint the guy as really crazy it is not clear just how accurate they are.
One of the strangest things to me is that a 40 year old guy could attack a 70 year old guy with a hammer and not seriously injure him. I know even at my advanced age if I bopped anyone in the head with a hammer it would be lights out with one blow. From supposed accurate reports Pelosi is said to be expected to make a full recovery.
Bottom line for me is there seems to be more to this story than has been revealed so far.
No the story isn’t getting stranger. The lies you MAGA idiots keep telling yourselves are. And for what little it’s worth to you, Paul Pelosi is 82. He had a successful surgery addressing his skull fracture and had unspecified injuries to his right arm and hands.
It is suspicious that the hammer assault did not kill the victim? Furthermore, you find the security measures to be suspicious, because SF is 'a shithole?'
Jesus Christ, your Internet sleuthing will uncover Obama's real birth certificate next.
Just loathsome victim blaming partisan assholery.
It's all about the votes.
Pro-impeachment has the votes, impeach.
Conviction has the votes, convict.
The constitution will follow along like a puppy dog.
When the legislative makeup changes I hope they CENSURE Biden for his heinous Afghanistan debacle and leave it at that. Biden wants to play the martyr. His whole career has been like that: Propose something preposterous, and if it goes through claim victory (Brady Gun Bill , completely useless) or when it gets struck down say "I wanted to give all Chinese trans activists $100 000 dollars but those evil Judges kept me from it"
Biden removed American forces after his predecessors had botched the situation thoroughly (an overmatched Bush pulled the wrong triggers, Obama let it linger, Trump lingered and then surrendered).
What? Are you a retard?
Is it your claim that the withdrawal from Afghanistan wasn't a fucking disaster?
Miles better than Obama and Trump keeping is there.
sarcast0, you used to be fact based.
What did I say here that wasn’t factual?
Do you wish we were still in Afghanistan?
you were always into partisan revenge and delusion.
Iowatwo can’t respond just now. He is cleaning his septic tank with a spoon and turkey baster, thanking his lucky stars no one forces him to pay a government sewage bill every month.
You're just more afraid of a President Harris...
Well, the English language is in abject terror of her abuse of it.
Expected speaker McCarthy has already stated that there will be no Biden impeachments
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/politics/mccarthy-rejects-biden-impeachment-calls
This should disqualify him for speaker. The Hunter Biden coverup is an obvious impeachable offense.
Absolutely biden should be impeached, if for no other reason than the dementia, especially as the risk of war increases. Alternatively, use the 25th amendment.
However, there is little evidence that Kamela has the mental capacity to perform the duties of the president. As such the dangers/risks of leaving dementia Joe in office vs dangers / risks of having Kamela assume the presidency are similar levels of danger.
What "Hunter Biden coverup"?
Indeed. Hunter is being investigated by his father's DOJ. We did not hear about him being investigated by Trump's DOJ.
If there is a “speaker McCarthy” the only way he gets to remain “Speaker McCarthy” is if he serves the will of the monkiest monkeys in the MAGA monkey house. When they say “impeach” he will get out of the way or be rudely pushed out of the way.
Ultimately the first Trump impeachment was pretty much like the Clinton impeachment.
Did the President screw up? Yeah.
Was it impeachment worthy? Arguably
Do the people think he should be impeached? No, not really.
So there’s nowhere to go with it.
Yeah, you're not here speaking for 'the people' with that opinion.
What does that mean?
Extorting a foreign government for dirt on your political enemies is, of course, impeachment worthy. A Republican President's "Fifth Avenue immunity" against anyone in his party voting against him does not change that fact.
Pretty much nobody but you thought so. The public didn’t care, just like they didn’t care about Clinton’s perjury. Without pretty strong public support an impeachment isn’t going to happen, no matter what a close minded progressive like you thinks. So sure of yourself that you call your opinion a fact.
Almost 70% of the public thought Nixon should go. Even 60% of Republicans. That’s a mandate to impeach. That wasn’t there with trump, no matter how many of your days that ruins.
“Pretty much nobody but you thought so” is the [citation needed] of [citation needed].
A much higher percentage supported Trump's first impeachment than supported Clinton's.
Sure, whatever. Less than half wanted to impeach both. The point is that there wasn’t enough public support to impeach either one. And you can grumble “Republicans, grrr” but 60% of them supported Nixon’s impeachment. So it’s possible for a president to sin enough to build a public consensus. Trump and Clinton didn’t.
Trump's second impeachment should have garnered support comparable to Nixon's impeachment (see for example, Mitch McConnell's floor speech explaining his acquittal vote strictly on the technical ground that Trump was no longer president). But, it did not because we live in a more polarized time and Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue without affecting his popularity. Therefore, we don't know what kind of support the first impeachment might have had is times similar to the 1970s.
I agree with the part about Trump’s second impeachment. My guess (and that’s all it is) is that people (general public) figured he was gone already so whatever. Even though performance wise I think Biden has been the worst president of my lifetime (LBJ maybe) I’ve said that Trump demonstrated himself to be unfit to be president with his post-election behavior.
And ultimately, the support level on T and C was what it was for whatever reason. You just can’t impeach a president with the polls saying less than half of the country approves of doing so, no matter how bad you think what he did was and no matter how intensely disliked he was
Politically you are right. But for the good of the country, perhaps it's important to go against the wishes of half the people.
From “Captcrisis was the only person who thought Impeachment I was a legit matter” to “Pfft, less than half [of americans] thought so” in two short hours. Above-It-All Bevis is dancing as fast as he can.
Presidential impeachments and the subsequent senate trial have always been an exercise in politics, nothing more. Since the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, the whole thing has been a farce operating under the guise of a legal proceeding even as the rules of legal procedure are ignored.
It is my contention that the parliamentary method of removing a head of government is something of an improvement. At the very least, it is a recognition, barring criminal conduct, of the fact that removing a head of government is ultimately a political decision rather than some made up BS with rules established by partisan hacks developed to give themselves a patina of legitimacy.
At the rate we are headed, we might have an impeachment every 15 years followed by a Senate acquittal and we will have seen the act of impeachment for what it truly is: like labeling everything as racist, it detracts from true racism. The same holds true for the impeachment. When everything is impeachable, that which is truly impeachable becomes rather benign.
Perhaps my disgust with presidentialism biases my opinion. I will admit to it. But let us be honest with ourselves about the true nature of impeachments.
Which “rules of legal procedure” were ignored?
Be specific, and include with your evidence whatever link or proof you have that what you complain about is actually relevant to the “rules of legal procedure” for Impeachments.
When the WaPo admits that due process is not even a necessity in an impeachment, I think we have at least one endorsement of what i assert: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/11/02/trumps-defenders-need-stop-pretending-impeachment-is-criminal-trial/
Since when is due process only applied in criminal matters, I wonder?
As I suspected, you have no idea what you’re whining about.
You should start by reading your own link more carefully. Follow that up with a brief investigation into what the “rules of legal procedure” are for impeachments.
The Senate decides how to run an impeachment. Period. They do not have to follow any rules other than what they decide upon for the process.
You need to re-read that. It does not say that due process is not a necessity. It says that the process that is due is not the process of a criminal trial.
As the Supreme Court has observed many times, due process has two fundamental elements: notice, and an opportunity to be heard. Trump had both of those.
The specifics of how a given set of proceedings operate are different depending on the context. Suspension from public school, public employee termination, civil trial, criminal trial, impeachment. Each has different requirements. Impeachment does not have the same rules as a criminal trial.
+1 Insightful
MD, I am not so sure about the parliamentary party removing the titular head (like we see in UK) being an improvement over impeachment. That said, I totally agree that impeachment is a political act, in it's very essence. It is dumb to pretend otherwise. I do tend to agree that the 'impeachment genie' is now out of the proverbial lamp and we'll see more impeachments over time.
When you say 'presidentialism', what do you mean? Unitary Executive kind of thing?
The problem here is you take “impeachment is political” and interpret that to mean it is a tit for tat rubber ball that political parties bounce of each other. That’s not what it means. It means “Impeachment is conducted by congress, not under civil or criminal codes.” It doesn’t mean “Hey, they impeached our guy so we’re going to impeach their guy! It’s only fair…”
So if I understand Prof. Whittington, by using U.S. influence (albeit ineffectively) in an attempt to persuade the Saudis to hold off on reducing oil production, and by selling off oil from the SPR in a frantic attempt to lower gasoline prices in the runup to the election, Biden has "abus[ed] the powers of the presidency for the sake of purely personal interests," and has therefore committed an impeachable offense.
Although I'm not sure what the word "abuse" is doing in that sentence. Is there a distinction between "using" the powers of the presidency for personal interests, and "abusing" them for that purpose? Maybe it's "use" (good, lawful) when a Democrat does it and "abuse" (ack!) when a Republican does it?
IIRC Trump threatened to hold up a delivery that had already been authorised and mandated by Congress for evident personal gain, not just for a policy from which he would garner political advantage. That's the difference.
Really.
Which court said that Trump had to make that delivery?
The Supreme Court, when it ruled in the 1970s that the president has no power to impound funds appropriated by Congress.
Do you suppose your excellent response will change Michael Ejercito's opinion? I suspect not...
The Supreme Court obviously could not have enjoined Trump to deliver this aid to the Ukrainians way back in the 1970's.
Nor is this a case that even falls under the Court's original jurisdiction,. Had the House gone to the Supreme Court to force Trump to deliver the aid, the Court would have told them to refile at the district court.
Are you people this daft?
Since the case was never adjudicated (Trump quickly released the aid following the whistleblower's complaint), all we can do is look to Supreme Court precedents. What do you do?
Ejercito: “Where is the case that says that Alabama can’t forbid black people from going to this high school?”
Me: “Brown vs. Board of Education, in 1954.”
Ejercito: “The Supreme Court obviously could not have enjoined Alabama to integrate this high school in 2022 way back in the 1950s."
Precedents. How do they work?
"The Supreme Court, when it ruled in the 1970s that the president has no power to impound funds appropriated by Congress."
...yet Biden openly threatened to do just that to Ukraine if they did not fire the prosecutor who was pressuring the guy who was paying his son numerous thousands. Weird.
And we have Biden boasting of doing so, so it's not like he did not do it or there is any dispute of it.
What funds appropriated by Congress were at issue there?
The billion dollars in loan guarantees that Obama had no power to offer or withdraw. You know, that.
Weren’t those EU not US?
No, they were U.S. But damikesc doesn't know the law or the facts.
'And we have Biden boasting of doing so'
It's like he knew he wasn't doing anything wrong.
What was the personal gain? I thought it was to create troubles for the Bidens, his political opponents. Just like lower gas prices, if Biden could achieve them, would create troubles for the Republicans.
The personal gain was his reelection prospects. If Biden could lower gas prices, it would benefit Americans, not "create troubles for the Republicans."
It would also aid FJB.
All good things are just Dem pandering!
Are you really this daft?
As I said, "for evident personal gain, not just for a policy from which he would garner political advantage"
Even so, so what?
It is not a crime.
You keep hiding behind that. You have not established why that matters.
It may be an impeachable offence nonetheless
Even though both may be motivated by personal, political gain, there is a big difference between using the powers of the presidency to impact gas prices versus smearing your political rival.
Like the Mar a Lago raid?
Or the prosecution of Rick Perry?
I don’t know about the Perry prosecution, but the Margo Lago raid was not motivated by smearing Trump nor to advance personal, political gain.
Yeah, it was motivated by probable cause that Trump would destroy the documents whose possession was in dispute- or so they say.
Oh stop repeating the Trump talking points. Do you even care what the truth is, or are you content to be some Trumpsucking lackey, spreading Trumpaganda?
It was motivated by him signing an affidavit that he had handed all the documents over even though he didn't.
If y’all want to impeach a president for trying to keep gas prices low in the US, have at it.
The Author wrote: "This essay argues that abusing the powers of the presidency for the sake of purely personal interests is well within the traditional scope of the impeachment power."
How does one "prove" that someone is acting "purely" from personal interests when performing their job? Does the president have no interest, apart for purely personal interest, in rooting out corruption?
The author may as well have written that killing unicorns is well within the traditional scope of the impeachment power.
This one certainly didn't. Trump has long opposed anti-corruption legislation, including his infamous calls to repeal the FCPA. "Rooting out corruption" in foreign countries is explicitly not one of his concerns, and never has been.
Knowing that, what do you suppose he was trying to do?
"This one certainly didn’t."
And you "know" that how? The same way 50 former intelligence officers knew the laptop was Russian dirty tricks?
You "know" what you want to believe. That is the same flaw that the essay rests on.
So there were facts in the above post. Your reply is like to a different post.
Do you think the facts posted are false? Or immaterial to the thesis? You can’t pretend the post was pure speculation; it wasn’t very long, everyone can tell you are dissembling and then trying to bring up some other random issue.
Is it really a fact that the rooting out corruption in countries receiving foreign aid is no concern of the president? Doesn't sound factual to me but I open to your arguments. Why would it be a concern of the VP but the not the P?
Is calling for repeal of FCPA proof that the president had no concern regarding corruption? Is it proof that the president had no concern regarding corruption in this instance (Biden crime family allegedly selling office of VP using Hunter s bagman)?
The random issue you allude to is the nature of proof, how one knows what is a fact. You can believe if you wish that the president acted "purely from personal interests" but you have not offered any proof.
Maybe not proof but circumstantial evidence that the possibility that Trump was on an anti corruption kick is less in his character than a usuing the power of the President to try and smear his opponent trick.
I wouldn't go as far as "purely" personal interest (overwhelmingly, with only the slightest amount of a legitimate interest sounds right to me), but no matter what the standard, we judge based on the evidence. In Trump's case, I found that evidence very compelling in support of his impeachment.
The question is, what did you think of Trump before hand?
My general rule of thumb here is that, if the only people who find the prosecution's case persuasive are people who already disliked the defendant, the prosecution doesn't actually HAVE a case.
In Trump's case, various figures on the left were discussing impeaching him, literally before he secured the nomination.
Could Trump Be Impeached Shortly After He Takes Office?
This was long, long before anybody had identified even a semi-plausible charge, and certainly before he'd actually DONE anything.
A formal campaign to impeach him started, literally on January 20th, 2017. By late February, polls were showing majority support among Democrats for impeaching him, even though no charge could be identified. (Basically, the support was there the first time they bothered asking the question.) He started out his administration with Democrats intending to impeach him, it just took them a while to settle on a charge. More a matter of lowering the bar than accumulating evidence, actually; The longer he went without giving them a good excuse, the less of an excuse they demanded, until they settled on utterly BS charges that persuaded nobody who didn't already hate the guy.
I was no fan of Trump, believing he cared only about himself and would do anything - no matter the cost to institutions, the country and others - for his personal gain (I was proved correct). I opposed impeachment prior to the Ukraine scandal.
But everyone found the prosecution's case persuasive. Not a single person said, "I don't think Trump did that." It was essentially uncontroverted. It's just that MAGA didn't fucking care. As Trump said, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and it wouldn't cost him support. That doesn't mean that it's not impeachable for him to shoot someone on 5th avenue; it means that MAGA are intellectually dishonest and un-American.
There is literally no such thing as a "formal campaign to impeach" him, so, it literally did not start on January 20th, 2017. An actual formal congressional inquiry into impeachment started, literally, on September 24, 2019, after Trump's corruption related to Ukraine was publicly revealed.
Not sure how you define "everyone" but obviously not everyone found the prosecution's case persuasive since Trump was not convicted.
Truth be told everyone with an IQ above room temperature knew that both the Trump and Clinton impeachments were a joke since there was no way the Senate would convict either one.
Johnson was the president closest to being convicted falling only one vote short. Clinton was next closest but it was not really even close 55-45 while Trump was in last place never getting more than 53 votes to convict.
55-45
Nope. 45 to convict, 55 to acquit on one count. 50-50 on the other.
"Not a single person said, “I don’t think Trump did that.”"
For a trivial value of "that", maybe. Everybody agreed Trump had visited the bank, half the population thought he hadn't robbed it while he was there.
This isn't like Clinton, where everybody agreed he'd lied under oath, that he'd had his staff obtaining perjurous affidavits, and Democrats "didn't fucking care", and said so. Basically only Democrats and NeverTrumpers look at what Trump did and even see the 'crime'.
Nope. Even here, where the loons and partisan trolls are at their apex, nobody is saying, "Trump didn't do that." They're saying, "Shrug. I don't care, and/or it was justified."
The actions, people agree on. How they're characterized, nope.
The campaign to impeach President Trump has begun
"The effort to impeach President Donald Trump is already underway.
At the moment, the new commander in chief was sworn in, a campaign to build public support for his impeachment went live at ImpeachDonaldTrumpNow.org, spearheaded by two liberal advocacy groups aiming to lay the groundwork for his eventual ejection from the White House.
The organizers behind the campaign, Free Speech for People, and RootsAction, are hinging their case on Trump’s insistence on maintaining ownership of his luxury hotel and golf course business while in office. Ethics experts have warned that his financial holdings could potentially lead to constitutional violations and undermine public faith in his decision-making.
Their effort is early, strategists admit. But they insist it is not premature — even if it triggers an angry backlash from those who will argue that they are not giving the new president a chance."
I didn't say it was a legal campaign, but it wasn't informal, either. It was an organized push to get him impeached.
As usual, you're focusing on your imagined motivations, and thus ignoring anything else.
Fringe activists in 2016 don't prove shit about actual Democratic plots.
Because unlike the GOP, the Dems have sidelined their fringe activists.
No, it was not an organized push to get him impeached. It was a ploy for attention by a couple of supposed advocacy groups that nobody has ever heard of, before or since. This had nothing to do with the Democratic Party, and had no connection to the actual impeachments of Trump down the road.
Ever notice how you keep posting the same link over and over again because you don't have anything serious to offer on this topic?
Why should I dig up more links to prove what I've already proven?
Democrats were talking about impeaching him before he even got the nomination, and polls showed they wanted him impeached in late February, before you had anything to impeach him for.
All that happened is that you got more and more frustrated over the lack of any basis for impeaching him, until you guys broke down and impeached him over something nobody thought anything of unless they already hated the guy.
I have always said (albeit not here, as I was not here) that the whole "emoluments clause" action against Trump was bullshit.
I took a different view of his impeachment for his corrupt actions in Ukraine.
The two are unrelated, apart from the fact that they both involved Trump.
The first impeachment's biggest shortcoming was its failure to include articles for the obstructions of justice contained in the Mueller Report.
Because there wasn't any obstruction of justice on Trump's part. He never did anything he wasn't legally entitled to do.
You don't understand the law.
The "obstruction" consisted of his firing somebody he was entitled to fire, over a policy disagreement where he was entitled to have his subordinates carry out his policy preferences.
The "policy disagreement" was whether Trump should be immune from investigation for law breaking.
And what you fail to understand is that a particular act can be legal or not depending on motive. I am free to walk into my office right now, empty out the filing cabinets into a box that I then put in the fireplace, and light it on fire. Entirely legal.
If I'm clearing out space, or trying to heat my home, or I'm just bored. But not if I'm trying to destroy evidence before the police get here to serve the search warrant.
Exact same act. Different motive. Different mode of legality.
"And what you fail to understand is that a particular act can be legal or not depending on motive."
And this is exactly why Democrats almost uniformly think Trump guilty: Because they presume he's doing everything on the basis of corrupt motives, and then demand that we prove otherwise in order to clear him. They operate on the basis of a presumption, not of innocence, but of guilt.
On this basis they think they have one iron clad case against him after another, and are infuriated when people who aren't operating on the presumption of guilt think they've got squat.
He admitted it, Brett. Bragged about it might be more accurate.
As posted earlier impeachment has reached the point that it is meaningless. Clinton lied under oath in a court of law; something that is a crime and he got a slap on the wrist by losing his law license. It definitely is an impeachable offense but not one the Senate was willing to convict him of. Trump tried to get an investigation into shady dealings by the former VP's son (seriously how does a meth head with a sex problem get paid a quarter of a million a year to sit on a board). Is it impeachable, yea since the House defines what is impeachable but again the Senate was not willing to convict. Second time for Trump was after he left office, but what is the point of having a dead horse if you are not gonna beat it. Again the Senate would not convict.
Point is that now it seems the House feels free to impeach a prez knowing that the Senate will bail them out by not convicting.
Until they don't = Point is that now it seems the House feels free to impeach a prez knowing that the Senate will bail them out by not convicting.
Longer term, that doesn't bode well for us, does it? Michael D (above) posits we will see more impeachments over the short term (15-20 years), and not less. Let's see what happens between now and and 2040 (I sure plan to be around then!).
Especially now that Pelosi has made impeachment an excuse to go after the entirety of the opposition party with no privlege anywhere in order to use the "fact finding" against them in unrelated ways.
Yup, they will not like the rules they set. Just as they disliked Reid's watering down of the filibuster. Advance thinking is not a strong suit.
It's funny how the Repubs could not manage to re-instate those precious Senate rules once they gained control of the Senate. It's almost like they didn't want to?
Why the hell would they? You're asking them to voluntarily subject themselves to rules that would go away whenever the Democrats were in power.
That would be monumentally stupid, even for "the Stupid party".
Test
Nope, still shadowbanned and cancelled. Try again tomorrow.
Not what I was testing, but thanks for the confirmation anyway.
Both of them should have been convicted. The evidence was sufficient to do so in each case, but the process of impeachment is simply not a legal process--it is a political one--so it was not surprising that they were all decided along political lines.
Why does that matter?
Criminal intent.
Was there sufficient probable cause for an investigation? An affirmative answer is dispositive.
Mar-a-lago? Russia hoax investigation?
Do any of those ring any bells?
It's criminal intent to investigate a Biden's corruption!
He wasn't investigating Biden's corruption. He was engaged in his own.
There wasn't any investigation, and the answer is "no," there wasn't sufficient evidence for probable cause of Biden corruption.
It’s a negative answer.
Because no one in the US opened an investigation based on probable cause.
Instead Trump went for strongarming a foreign government.
It’s not hard to put together.
By "Mar-A-Lago" do you mean the fat fuck unlawfully keeping documents which belong the National Archives?
The "Russia hoax" was proven by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Mueller investigation.
MAGAts are seriously stupid.
Investigating corruption of a Biden is corruption itself!!
"The “Russia hoax” was proven by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Mueller investigation."
lol wtf are you a bot?
Don't confuse BCD with information that differs from what he gets from One Reich News Network or Gateway Pungent.
Stop.
They bought a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of Facebook ads. That was literally the extent of it.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with requesting that a foreign government investigate an allegation of violations of its own laws.
What matters is if there was probable cause to request an investigation.
Did he actually present forged evidence?
Or solicit the forging of evidence, or the hiding of exculpatory evidence?
asking someone to investigate a crime can not be wrong, absent these sort of things.
Investigating the corruption involving the VP and his son (big fish in the corruption pond) certainly deters the lesser corrupt players
Ah yes,
It’s not agains the law so it’s cool and good.
These are the people who also think it’s totes no big deal to lie on a FISA warrant.
To them it's criminal to want to investigate a high level Democrat but totally okay to lie on spy warrants to investigate Republicans.
No galloping, BCD. Failure to keep on topic is a tell you have no response.
Abuse of power may not be illegal, but it is wrong.
Why didn’t Trump investigate using US investigators, Mike?
He didn't request a foreign government conduct any investigation. He just wanted the announcement.
There was no probably cause.
There was Trump going outside the country he is responsible for and pressuring someone else to make a politically damaging announcement.
This is clear to everyone. The work you put in to make that not clear to you is considerable.
It was not abuse of power.
Conservatives did not directly blame Bernie and the Dems for his supporter trying to assassinate Republicans.
But they should have, given the 100% direct ties involved.
100% direct ties, eh? How do you track that causal connection?
Also, as to the OP, what are your thoughts about the recent incident regarding Pelosi’s husband?
I mean, Bernie isn't even a Democrat!
They certainly tried to blame Bernie.
Do you MAGAt bastards ever tell the truth?
Dangling foreign aid to make an investigation of your opponents kid sure is abuse of power.
But my point is more your ‘it’s not abuse of power so long as there is no crime’ is nonsense.
As you see to have just admitted by implication.
There were several abuses of power, including unlawfully impounding appropriated funds.
The cowardly shitstain didn't even have the balls to just say he wanted someone differrent than Yovanovitch as Ambassador- something fully within his power to do. Instead, he tried to surreptitiously trash a dedicated civil servant's career.
You clearly know less than nothing about all of this.
Nope, but you'd have to have something more than "a Biden got a job" to predicate it.
You guys have shit.
No, I'm someone who isn't brainwashed by idiot rightwing propaganda like you are. Volume V particularly.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures
Volume I of the Mueller report lays out numerous instances of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, particularly Manafort and Gates sharing internal campaign information with Russia's Information Operations to support the Trump campaign.
"100% direct ties, eh? How do you track that causal connection?"
Volunteered for the Bernie campaign. Direct association. That should be closely investigated.
"Also, as to the OP, what are your thoughts about the recent incident regarding Pelosi’s husband?"
Drug-addled Green party supporter committed a crime. Truly an unexpected event in life.
Only works with them exclusively, votes for them for leadership exclusively, ran for President repeatedly under their banner.
Yup...not a Democrat.
They specifically did not.
Not sure you're a great source for arguments involving truthfulness.
Apparently you missed the hacking of the DNC.
Apparently you missed that the DOJ considered it such an important national security matter that they blew off investigating and took the DNC's own paid contractor's word for everything. So about all we know about the matter is what the DNC wanted people to know.
No, that's not what happened.