The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
LA Mayoral Candidate Rick Caruso Mocked for Suggesting He is Something Other than Generically White
A Telemundo debate resulted in this colloquy between the moderator and mayoral candidate Rick Caruso:
"The next mayor of Los Angeles will be either an African American woman or a white man." Elvir said, referring to Bass and Caruso respectively.
"I'm Italian," Caruso shot back in apparent objection.
"Italian American," Elvir responded.
"That's 'Latin,' thank you," Caruso said in an apparent attempt to correct Elvir.
Caruso's reference to his Italian heritage was widely mocked, exacerbated by his apparent suggestion that he is "Latin," seen as a silly ploy to associate himself with Latinos who make up a substantial part of the LA electorate.
And yet… one reason that "Hispanic" was initially chosen in the 1970s as the government's official appellation for people of Spanish-speaking descent is that some people feared that Italian Americans would claim Latino status if that were the available option, given that they were traditionally considered to be "Latins." Caruso is 63, and thus grew up a time when referring to Italians as "Latins" was common.
Also, there seems to be some rather arbitrary distinctions being made by various pundits. In 2021, one of the two finalists in the Boston mayor election was Annissa Essaibi George. Ms. George is of half-Polish and half-Tunisian descent. She described herself, and was described by the media, as "a person of color," even though she was half-Polish and Tunisians are officially classified as white both by federal and state policy. While some would claim that Muslim identity has been "racialized" and thus Muslim Arab Americans should be considered people of color, Ms. George was raised Catholic.
Is there some objective reason why Mr. Caruso should be mocked for suggesting that his Italian ethnicity differentiates him from being described as generically white, but one should respectfully accept Ms. George's claim that she isn't white at all? Not that I can think of.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
The Democrats like to do whatever is most convenient for them when doling out racial spoils.
And Republicans tend to be bigots, or at least bigot-friendly.
Educated, reasoning Americans residing in successful, modern communities seem to disfavor the Republican approach.
You're a fucking moron.
Republicans are just honest and direct about their bigotry. They don’t couch it in Orwellian terms like “anti-racism.”
Oh, yeah, the Conspirators, their and other Republicans fans are scrupulously honest about their bigotry, and that of their fellow Republicans, conservatives, and faux libertarians.
They're "colorblind." Just ask 'em.
I don't think "color" is relevant to civil or political rights.
This shouldn't stop citizens from forming ethnic associations or groups to uplift their particular race, especially if it's a race which historically got the short end of the stick (or the wrong end of the lash).
The problem arises when the government promotes discrimination and racial sorting.
Voters will sometimes take race into account - probably not a good idea, even in modern up-to-date with-it cities, unless a candidate has experience, based on his experience growing up black, for instance, in such things as police abuse or bad schools, phenomena which seem to afflict these successful and progressive cities.
Like transgenders, Caruso self-identifies as a Democrat (or independent) despite being a Republican most of his life. And no surgery was required.
"Is there some objective reason"
Ms. George is a long-term committed Democrat. Mr. Caruso only started calling himself a Democrat this year and is a relative conservative running against a long-time Democrat.
Maybe not a good reason, but an objective one.
Hilarious.
For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard
If the guy had any guts, he would say, it does not matter whether the next mayor will be white or African American. It matters how he or she will run the city.
Yeah, I know that's passe.
They’re Democrats: race “not mattering” would be anathema and saying such would guarantee excommunication from their One True Church.
No, they're both white.
(BTW, anyone who claims that Italians "didn't use to be white" needs to account for the fact that Italians (such as Constantino Brumidi, the artist of the U.S. Capitol) could become naturalized U.S. citizens at a time when the law only allowed white people to be naturalized. And those who claim that Arabs aren't white need to explain how Marlo Thomas, Ralph Nader, James Abourezk, Najeeb Halaby, Helen Thomas, and John Sununu weren't white.)
Both white, but each with a distinct ethnic background, and not inherently less "minority" than being a mostly-European-heritage "Latino."
Those "mostly-European-heritage 'Latino[s]'" are also white. I will mock any of them for claiming to be non-white.
??
Exactly
Arguing about race is racist.
The belief that the race of a political representative matters is the real poison, but that is the water in which all of the Democrat-fish swim. It is a way to drive real demographic ghettoization and is a veritable boon for racialist politicians that choose to gerrymander constituencies in their “traditional” way.
He should insist everyone calls him "Ricardo." That approach seems to have worked okay for Robert Francis O'Rourke.
You figure people should stick with their given names, such as Rafael (also known as Ted, and as the guy who criticized Beto O'Rourke for using a different name), or Nimrata, or Piyush?
Arthur Kirkland's actually Serbian, and his real name if I. F. Jocic.
Government should stop trying to determine anybody's race. No good comes of noticing race.
" Caruso is 63, and thus grew up a time when referring to Italians as "Latins" was common."
Huh. I thought it was further back than that.
Yeah -- when I think of "Latin Lover" I am thinking more Rudolph Valentino.
Well, the Wikipedia entry for Latin lover includes as modern examples Al Pacino, Sylvester Stallone, and John Travolta.
I'd wager that those entries were made by reps for Messrs. Pacino, Stallone and Barbarino.
Barbarino
What?
Where?
When?
Yeah, I'm old.
I prefer "chronologically challenged".
Considering some of the dumber things I did in my youth I like to think of it as, "Beating the odds".
Also, at that time (pre-Vatican II), white Catholics attended "latin mass" and Catholics in general were not treated as well as Protestants regardless of both being white. I've always thought, possibly wrongly, that "latin" in the context of some Europeans had a tangential link to the faith as well as their slightly darker skin color. This would apply mostly to Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Romanian immigrants.
America has encountered successive waves of ignorant and intolerance, often related to skin color, religion, immigration, nationality, or perceived economic pressures.
Those targeted by America's lesser elements have included Italians, Jews, gays, the Irish, agnostics, women, Asians, Catholics, women, eastern Europeans, Blacks, Hispanics, atheists, other Asians, Muslims, other Hispanics, Germans . . . most of America, at one time or another.
The beauty of America is that our bigots don't win, not over time. And this latest batch of bigots seems nothing special, its reliance on the charms, integrity, and talents of Donald J. Trump and evangelical churches notwithstanding.
Just ignore the bigotry on full display in the LA City Council. After all, they are Democrats.
Probably not the best zinger to whip out at this point given that Biden has come out and recommended resignation and some of their fellow Democrats on the board are not attending meetings in protest. If you want an example of a political party willing to deal with its own occasional ugliness in a transparent way, the LA City Council is just one of many you could point to.
Whereas, if you want to see what it looks like when a party is willing to tolerate all manner of abhorrent behavior in the name of achieving power, the GOP is generating eye-popping, scandal-worthy examples on the daily.
It’s almost like different regions of the country think about these things differently.
Why? Aren't these people all from Los Angeles?
So... what was the question Elvir was trying to ask? All the clips I see online end at the "Latin" exchange, and the news coverage says she went on to finish the question without (in what I can see) specifying what it was.
I think I see the problem here.
Well yes there is an objective reason of sorts, it's that this racial categorizing is just done according to whatever is politically expedient. The issue of how much needless enmity and strife gets created out of nothing as a result, is not just disregarded, it is a calculated benefit and aim.
It's almost like constructs like the "one drop" rule or refusing naturalization to "non-white" people, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and Japanese internment camps, created all sorts of unintended and enduring issues regarding race.
But sure, let's continue to pretend the "effect" is actually the "cause" so that we can reverse the responsibility as a means to extend political power based on whiteness.
Does a contemporary example of “extend[ing] political power based on whiteness” (excepting Los Angeles Times attempt via labeling Larry Elder the “black face of white supremacy”) actually exist?
My Grandmother would be shocked if someone suggested a person from a Southern European country like Italy or Greece was the same as say Germany, France, UK, or Norway. But, who cares about things like history...
Also, isn't race supposed to be some sort of social construct? Why can't this guy just say his is a space alien from Wakanda and the left has to not only agree with it but use whatever title he dictates he be called as....
There has been NO greater winning election strategy for Democrats than fomenting racial hatred -- they will push it to the detriment of the entire country -- destroying everything in its wake.
Returning to their roots, as it were.
If Jesse Helms were still alive he'd be guest-blogging at the Volokh Conspiracy.
And yet the old bigot did MORE to alleviate slavery in Africa than Obama!
Always wondered who your bigot heroes were -- thanks!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/12/opinion/columbus-day-italian-american-racism.html
Let me get this straight (if you will excuse the expression). Somebody mocked, yes mocked, the concept of “Itialian”, but nobody mocked the concept of “Generically White”?
How does one distinguish between Generically White and Brand Name White?
When is it OK to say that someone is “Generically White”, but not OK to say that he or she is “Generically Human”.
It seems like this “Generic White” construct has the potential to create confusion. What are the pro-noums associated with a person who is “Genericly White”?
What if someone started moving concepts from Trade mark law into identity law?
What if no one ever registered the trade mark for “Genericly White”?
My grandfather came here in 1922 from Tuscany when he was 12. He started on the Pennsylvania Railroad the day he got thrown off the train for running out of fare money when he volunteered to pick up the severed legs of a brakeman who had just been run over. By the outbreak of WW2 he was the track laying foreman for the entire Conway Yard and was considered so critical he was exempted from the draft because getting war material through was so crucial.
The town I grew up in was almost exclusively made of of Italian railroad workers. I never knew we were on the outs until I went to a local Catholic high school that drew students from all over the region.
So Italians will become the new “Jews.” Of course, it used to be that Jews in movies were played by Italians (Sal Mineo in EXODUS) and sometimes Jews played Italians (James Caan in THE GODFATHER).
Luckily, he didn't move to Nevada and try to pass himself off as a decent American....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wtFKXaltKY&ab_channel=Statebusters
If the Biden Administration success in adopting a new MENA classification, and it gets used for affirmative action purposes, I expect a lot of people who now consider themselves white will suddenly recognize their MENA roots, and how broadly those roots branch out will be interpreted (by the beneficiaries) liberally.
And Italians played Native Americans in spaghetti westerns.