The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Justice Gorsuch Cancels Woodrow Wilson
The one President everyone agrees should be cancelled.
As a general matter, conservatives oppose cancel culture. They will defend to the hilt most historical figures who do not meet modern progressive standards. Washington, Jefferson, and Madison must be saved. But there is one President that conservatives, as well as liberals, are happy to destroy: Woodrow Wilson.
The first footnote of Justice Gorsuch's concurrence in West Virginia v. EPA opens fire on Wilson:
It is vital because the framers believed that a republic—a thing of the people—would be more likely to enact just laws than a regime administered by a ruling class of largely unaccountable "ministers." The Federalist No. 11 (A. Hamilton). From time to time, some have questioned that assessment. [FN1]
[FN1] For example, Woodrow Wilson famously argued that "popular sovereignty" "embarrasse[d]" the Nation because it made it harder to achieve "executive expertness." In Wilson's eyes, the mass of the people were "selfish, ignorant, timid, stubborn, or foolish." He expressed even greater disdain for particular groups, defending "[t]he white men of the South" for "rid[ding] themselves, by fair means or foul, of the intolerable burden of governments sustained by the votes of ignorant [African-Americans]." He likewise denounced immigrants "from the south of Italy and men of the meaner sort out of Hungary and Poland," who possessed "neither skill nor energy nor any initiative of quick intelligence." To Wilson, our Republic "tr[ied] to do too much by vote."
Gorsuch hits every note. Wilson rejected Hamilton. Wilson hated black people. Wilson hated Italians. (I bet Wilson supported the Blaine Amendment and the Sullivan Act.) Wilson hated democracy. But Wilson loved bureaucrats.
Was Woodrow Wilson at all relevant to the major questions doctrine, or the Clean Air Act. Of course not. But we should never pass an opportunity to dump on the former Princeton President.
Indeed, Justice Gorsuch links Justice Kagan's dissent with Wilson.
In places, the dissent seems to suggest that we should not be unduly "'concerned'" with the Constitution's assignment of the legislative power to Congress. Echoing Woodrow Wilson, the dissent seems to think "a modern Nation" cannot afford such sentiments. But recently, our dissenting colleagues acknowledged that the Constitution assigns "all legislative Powers" to Congress and "bar[s their] further delegation." Gundy (plurality opinion of KAGAN, J.).
Fighting words.
More recently, Judge Andy Oldham opened up on Wilson in Cochran v. SEC:
Wilson and Landis fundamentally disagreed with the Founders' vision. Wilson and Landis thought the accumulation of all powers into one set of hands was—far from a vice—a virtue. And they wanted those all-powerful hands connected to an administrative agency, far away from the three branches of government the Founders worked so hard to create, separate, and balance. And most of all, Wilson and Landis wanted power as far away from democracy and universal suffrage as possible. . . . .
Notwithstanding his reassurance that German political principles could be Americanized, Wilson elsewhere made clear that he would scrap the Constitution if he could. One of his most notable departures from the Constitution was his distaste for democracy and popular sovereignty—especially after the document was amended to allow for an increasingly diverse electorate.
#CancelWoodrow.
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Funny. Ivy indoctrinated scumbags criticizing an Ivy indoctrinated scumbag.
Any Ivy alum has to be excluded from all benches, legislative seat and responsible policy decision in the Executive. They are toxic traitors to the nation. I include the fake conservatives on the Court today.
Go to the jury pool to fill the proper 500 seats on the Supreme Court.
Josh Blackman is a complete and utter jackass. Conservatives oppose cancel culture? Please all they do is try to get people canceled through public ridicule. Do they not want to weaken libel laws which will essentially cancel people through expensive lawsuits. the way I see it liberal cancel culture involves public shaming conservatives attempt to use laws and government to cancel people.
which does the 1st amendment protect against? people stifling speech or government stifling speech
This is what happens when a Law Professor has spent no real-time actually practicing laws. If Blackman appeared in court lawyers would wipe the floor with him. Blackman is what he rails against this white educated elite that do nothing.
We're still in the world Wilson made -- a federal government which pervades the economy, and the United States as a world leader with a uniquely detached and safeguarded position from which to influence Eurasian affairs.
The Ivy indoctrinates students into this quack, mythical ideas elite can tell people how to live. They need to be put in their place. Their job is to get things done that people want them to, not the reverse.
Of course, they are driven by greed, and by rent seeking. So this is just another heist by scumbags running their con.
A heist this big fully justifies, arrests, brief trials, and summary execution.
Wilson was one of the founders of Progressive thought, including the Living Constitution so, yes, he is relevant.
Wilson was a creator of living constitutionalism, eh? That's a new one on me. Have a source for this position?
Even when his basic point is completely sound, Prof. Blackman managed to express it in the dumbest possible way.
Democrats use personal attack. That commits the Fallacy of Irrelevance.
Geez David, give your multiple posts and self replys a rest. It is tedious.
Put me on Mute User.
Then I would be deprived of some of your sometimes inciteful posts.
Do you suffer from ADHD?
I fairness I should have added insightful, also.
Your terms are acceptable.
(I've only muted one other user--that anti-semitic asshole whose name I forget--not so much because his anti-semitism was offensive (though it certainly was that) as because it was tedious and annoying. Like Behar's lawyer-hating.)
SeaSea. All deniers are invited to Mute User me. They do not argue in good faith. They are agenda driven, and the lawyer agenda is to take our $trillion and to return nothing of value. The only remedy for such a heist is violence.
Guess you'll never get concealed carry. At least not in NY.
A major depression and then WWII prolly had a lot to do with Wilson's approach.
WWII and the great depression was after Wilson left the presidency
WWII and a major depression? WIlson died 17 years before WWII began for the US and 5 years before the Great Depression.
I don't know about Wilson's actions leading to the depression (although it was a world wide event that may have had some cause as a result of WWI); however a stronger case can be made for helping to precipitate WWII.
By 1917/18 both sides in WWI had beaten each other to a pulp.
Millions of dead (thanks to modern warfare), economies wrecked and neither side any closer to victory.
Americans had no interest in this contest and were essentially isolationist. But, Wilson had a dream of a League of Nations (experts who would assure world peace) and therefore pushed for America to enter on the side of France and Great Britain.
This fresh cannon fodder insured Germany's defeat resulting in the vindictive Treaty of Versailles which imposed exorbitant terms on the loser and redrew the map of the world.
All of this led to the collapse of the Wiemar Republic and the rise of Adolph Hitler.
There was a significant depression in 1920-21.
Yes, caused by the Fed trying to prevent the normal post-war deflation. Luckily for everybody, Wilson had his stroke, everybody was scared to admit he was incapacitated, and the economy recovered fairly quickly, unlike the 1929 meltdown.
Google for "inflation 1800-present" and you will find numerous charts showing no discernible overall inflation until the Fed came into existence in 1913. Bumps during war, slides back to pre-war levels after the war. If the Fed had not tried to fight the normal deflation, there never would have been the 18 month downturn.
It was post WWI inflation, not deflation, that the Fed was trying to stifle.
No, the inflation was done. They were explicitly trying to prevent the normal deflation, and they mostly succeeded.
Try reading his comment again. Your response is inane. Wilson introduced a philosophy of government that remained influential long after he was gone.
FUCK! I read Wilson but was thinking Roosevelt.
It's was a great 4th!
Obviously. Personally me and Aardbeg An Oa and his buddy Arturo Fuente and his wonderful Opus X got to be really good friends.
Well don't beat your self up, Wilson envisioned the progressive administrative state, F. Roosevelt built it.
Woodrow Wilson: wasn't he the guy who appointed Louis Brandeis to the Supreme Court? And wasn't Louie the first Jew on the Court? Seems to me he was. It's true that Wilson was a racist. But it's also true that he didn't own people, the way the "Founders" did. Libertarians love to hate on Wilson. They used to love to hate on FDR, but somehow that never worked for them. Maybe because many of the "big government" ideas of both men turned out to be, you know, good ones!
Too much weed this weekend,
" many of the "big government" ideas of both men turned out to be, you know, good ones!"
Nope, absolutely not.
Hate? Wilson was an asshole. I disliked him before I knew what libertarian was.
"Woodrow Wilson: wasn't he the guy who appointed Louis Brandeis to the Supreme Court? And wasn't Louie the first Jew on the Court? Seems to me he was."
And therefore, what? Wilson is immune from criticism?
Presidents used to nominate SCOTUS justices for all kinds of political reasons.
No big government idea has ever been a good one no matter who it came from.
FN1] For example, Woodrow Wilson famously argued that "popular sovereignty" "embarrasse[d]" the Nation because it made it harder to achieve "executive expertness."
And yet he supported direct election of Senators.
I was thinking the same thing. And look what has happened in the century+ since passage of the 17th Amendment. The country is governed by "executive expertness". I would argue the expansion of democracy in both senatorial and presidential politics is the reason.
And look what has happened in the century+ since passage of the 17th Amendment.
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. Yes it was a dreadful mistake.
Put Lenin first, the result of the Russian Revolution, in part successful because of WWI.
OK. Lenin.
I was trying just to hit the high spots.
Clearly the 17th was a disaster for humanity.
"High spots" is a poor choice of words for what those murdering thugs accomplished and yes the 17th was a disaster at least for the US along with the 16th which help fuel the unbridled growth of the Federal govt.
I don't blame the 17th Amendment, I blame the 16th.
Before the 17th amendment the Senate was chock full of state political bosses, who came to power via patronage and faction.
Whatever the golden age was in the US Senate, it certainly was not post-civil war to 17th amendment. I think we've had higher level of senators before and since.
As a general matter, conservatives oppose cancel culture.
Nothing that starts with such an obvious lie can be worth reading.
No one is cancelling Wilson; they are criticizing him.
I suspect Blackman knows the difference. He is just succumbing to his penchant for the gimmicky and dramatic. But words have meanings, and a lawyer's credibility is tied to whether he uses those words correctly. Blackman would benefit from choosing to write more like all the other Volokh Conspirators.
Thank you. I had the same thought. You said it well.
Everyone loves click-bait.
Wilson was without doubt a racist. The federal government was integrated from Reconstruction through the Taft Administration. Wilson segregated it.
...and it would remain so (at least in the military) until Harry Truman came along.
Critiquing someone where it's relevant to the discussion at hand is hardly "canceling" them. Canceling someone is shutting them down completely in all contexts, such as insisting that an author should no longer be read or an actor no longer get jobs because of a tweet not connected to their actual job. Saying "This person said this and here's why it's wrong" is normal discourse.
Lucky me. Back int he 60s I got to read the likes of Wilson, Locke, Burke in a HS English class focused on Ethics and Morality. Wilson lost all compare and contrast essays
You say that like it's a bad thing.
In an interesting side note, I read an opinion article today that suggested that the "major questions doctrine" would be a good reason to get rid of the filibuster. If only Congress can decide "major questions", and cannot delegate those decisions, then handicapping its own ability to make those decisions efficiently (or at all) is bad policy. Seriously, can anyone think of any "major questions" that have passed the Senate in the last 10 years, other than the pandemic measures? It can't effectively pass a fucking budget.
Nobody needs a reason to get rid of the filibuster, just the will.
You might also argue its better for major questions to be decided by a solid majority rather than 50 senators and a VP.
A solid majority of the Senate, or a solid majority of the country? Because those aren't necessarily the same thing with each state getting the same number of Senators.
Well we got the House to make sure the views of a majority of the country are taken into account.
The purpose of the Senate has always been to make sure we don't run into something half cocked. Which the CPP is. Germany is a great example of jumping into.the carbon elimination pool without testing the water. They gave up nuclear, started shutting down coal, but now they are subsidizing new coal plants to keep the lights on.
To go net zero they need 45000gw of electric storage capacity for no sun, low wind events. They have 8gw of storage capacity. So coal to the rescue.
Question for the younger people here.
When I was grade school in the late 60's / early 70's the "great" presidents the teachers focused on were Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt, and Kennedy.
I suspect (and hope) the list has evolved. Who did your teachers emphasize?
When I was in grade school, nobody described any President as "great." The administrations of Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, and both Roosevelts usually took more time up because important stuff happened in them and they seemed to have something to do with it. When important stuff happened that the President didn't lead on, we heard a lot about Webster, Clay, and Calhoun, not so much about the Presidents.
So when are people going to wise up and break ups the Civil Service system. We were SO much better off under the spoils system.
> "As a general matter, conservatives oppose cancel culture."
The Dixie Chicks would disagree.
Colin Kaepernick would disagree.
School librarians in Texas would disagree.
Disneyworld's Reedy Creek Special Improvement District would disagree.
Teachers threatened with termination or lawsuits for *accurately* teaching about America's historic (or current) racial inequality would disagree.
But it's only hypocracy when the other side does it.
Well I will point out that Kaepernick cancelled himself.
He was originally signed until 2020, but he reworked his contract to let him opt out early left on his contract, but he thought he could get more as a free agent and opted out of his contract because he wanted more.
NBCSports:
"Kaepernick signed a six-year, $115 million extension in June 2014. In reality, he served three years and earned approximately $39.3 million on the contract. Kaepernick signed a contract restructure in October which gave him the freedom to opt out of his contract to void the remainder of his deal."
Glenn Beck should get the credit for canceling Wilson. He had many shows on why Wilson was the worst President.
Because like FDR prior to WWII Wilson was supporting the French and English with supplies and munitions (it took decades for the Brits to admit that the Lusitania was carrying munitions).
Also, as always this was supported by the press who can't resist a good war to increase circulation.
I think the Zimmerman Note was the primary reason.
Come on, you're better than that. The idea was that the Senate would represent the interest of the states as sovereigns. Senators would be selected by state legislatures, democratically elected by the people of each state.
No system is perfect, but I would argue that direct election was a bigger factor in creating career politicians.
The whole point is they aren't supposed to be "our" Senators, they're supposed to be the State's Senators. Our representation is supposed to be through the House, the State's interests are in the Senate. Yet another Check and Balance that was broken.
That would be Bill Clinton to Monica.
Great Comment, Bro. You really nailed it, Queenie.
State legislatures are not democratically elected by the people of each state.
They will inevitably pick one of their own clique.
Why would the Senators "represent the interest of the states as sovereigns?" And why should they, if that is contrary to the interests of the people of the state? They shouldn't.
All the pissing and moaning about the 17th Amendment is ridiculous.
"There were a lot of voices calling for us to intervene, "
Maybe, but it was surely from those who would not be called upon to fight and die.
Would you be kind enough to send me your instruction booklet detailing how and what to post?
You self important twit (twat?).
Show me.
I would think propping yourself up on the Resolute Desk would make things a lot easier.
I suspect Kamala could explain it better.
The government was not set up, nor was it ever intended to be a vast apparatus all intended to legislate and carry out everything simply based on popular will. Had that been the case we'd have had a unicameral legislature from day one. We are a mass of many differing and varied interests all competing to be represented, and government was designed so that no one group gained dominance over another. People have interests, States have interests, Washington has interests. Generally speaking none of these are in alignment with one another, yet each are legitimate, and each needs to have a voice on an equal basis with one another. This is why each branch and each level of government was designed to be a circular firing squad on the other, not a totem pole of hierarchy. It only works when we are in a perpetual state of Mexican Standoff.
"Even that’s probably not really correct."
Pretty weasely.
Heck, about 100,000 Americans traveled to fight in the war before we entered it!
Source please. I know that many traveled to England and France
to seek fame and fortune as pilots in the then new field of flying machines. Not so sure the same would apply to the infantry and being cut down by machine gun fire before you even got out of a trench.
So laugh and shut up.
Unfortunately he's right about the results of the 16th and 17th amendments. The 16th fueled the explosive growth of the Federal Government and the 17th removed the ability of the states to influence it.
You've got a dick?
That sounds backwards to me. I seem to remember a mention of Presidential Kneepads.
The whole point is they aren't supposed to be "our" Senators, they're supposed to be the State's Senators. Our representation is supposed to be through the House, the State's interests are in the Senate. Yet another Check and Balance that was broken.
When did a state become a person? About the same time corporations did? States do not have interests, people do. The people of my state are perfectly capable of voting directly for Senators that will represent their interests without having to first vote for state legislators that will choose the Senators.
Oh, so you're a closet queen who swings both ways?
Sorry, but the states are supposed to be in charge of the Federal Government, and the people in charge of the state governments. The 17th Amendment was one of the worst things we ever did. It was the biggest power grab ever to come from Washington. It made Washington the most powerful government in the country when it was intended to be a relatively weak one, with very limited and clearly defined powers, powers that were granted, and tightly controlled by the state legislatures. The whole point of the Senate was to prevent Washington from dictating to unwilling states. Frankly the country has been irrevocably broken from the day of it's adoption.
You are the "queen" of obfuscation.
Sure you realize Mr. Bumble, from Dickens was wise enough to know "the law ia a ass- a idiot". Like so many lawyers
The 17th Amendment was enacted because Constitutional-amendment sized majorities in a Constitutional-amendment sized number of states wanted it that way. These arguments were available, and made, at the time, and the sovereign people rejected them.