The Volokh Conspiracy
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S.C. Bill Would Apparently Outlaw News Sites' Writing About Legal Abortion Clinics in Neighboring States
The South Carolina state Senate is considering a bill that would basically ban abortions, with no exception other than for abortions "designed or intended to prevent the death of a pregnant woman" (though even that's uncertain, given the sentence that "The provisions of this section must not be construed to authorize the intentional killing of an unborn child"). The bill wouldn't prohibit adult women from traveling to another state to get an abortion, though it would prohibit "transport[ing] a pregnant minor who resides in this State to another state to procure an abortion.".
The arguments for and against the prohibition on abortion are obvious, so I won't focus on them. (I oppose such prohibitions, but I have little useful to add about them.) Instead, I thought I'd flag something that's more within my area of expertise, and that others might miss: The law's ban on "knowingly or intentionally aid[ing or] abet[ting]" an abortion "includes, but is not limited to knowingly and intentionally,"
(1) providing information to a pregnant woman, or someone seeking information on behalf of a pregnant woman, by telephone, internet, or any other mode of communication regarding self-administered abortions or the means to obtain an abortion, knowing that the information will be used, or is reasonably likely to be used, for an abortion; [or]
(2) hosting or maintaining an internet website, providing access to an internet website, or providing an internet service purposefully directed to a pregnant woman who is a resident of this State that provides information on how to obtain an abortion, knowing that the information will be used, or is reasonably likely to be used for an abortion.
Say a news site writes a story, "North Carolina Abortion Clinic Near S.C. Border Targeted for Protests," and identifies the clinic. (Assume the clinic is legal in North Carolina.) It seems to me the elements of the crime would be met:
- The story provides "information … regarding … the means to obtain an abortion," or "information on how to obtain an abortion," because it provides information about a clinic that could conveniently perform abortions for South Carolina women.
- The author surely must know that some readers will use that information to figure out where to get an abortion, or at least are reasonably likely to so use it: It might be only one in a thousand readers, with the remaining readers reading the story simply for the information it provides against the protest, but that could still be tens or hundreds of women. And indeed the story might, in the normal course of things, mention things about the abortion providers that paints them in an especially good light ("Harvard Medical School-trained Dr. Jane Schmane, who practices at the clinic, said …."), which would end up drawing patients to that particular clinic.
- The author's employer is hosting or maintaining an internet website containing the story.
- The story may well be seen as being provided "to a pregnant woman" or "purposefully directed to a pregnant woman," because pregnant women will surely read it, and of course the author wants pregnant women (alongside other women) to read it. To be sure, it doesn't seem to be directed to an identified pregnant woman, the way an e-mail to a particular person might be—but subsection (2) obviously contemplates sites published to the world at large, since an "internet website" would basically never be purposefully directed to a particular identified reader.
- The news site may well be headquartered in South Carolina, or have a branch or office in South Carolina, and would thus be subject to the jurisdiction of South Carolina.
- The law appears not to be limited to information about abortions that would be (illegally) performed in South Carolina. Perhaps one could argue that the law as a whole doesn't ban abortions performed out of state, and thus the aiding-and-abetting provision applies only to aiding and abetting in-state abortions. But the text of this section seems to cover in-state communication of information about abortions generally, and not just about in-state abortions. (Moreover, the law would clearly cover stories written about companies that are mailing abortion pills into South Carolina, if the law mentions the company's name or gives enough information based on which a quick Google search can identify the company.)
That seems pretty clearly unconstitutional to me, since it doesn't fit within the narrow Brandenburg v. Ohio First Amendment exception for purposeful incitement of imminent, likely unlawful conduct, both because (1) the conduct that the speech might facilitate would be lawful, since it would be an abortion lawfully performed in North Carolina, and because (2) the bill isn't limited to publications written with the specific purpose of promoting abortions. But such speech seems like it would be covered by the bill.
I should note that a law likely could ban providing specific information to a particular woman about where she could get an illegal in-state abortion, with the intent that she use the information to get an abortion [UPDATE: I originally inadvertently omitted the "with the intent" clause]. That would likely fit within the "speech integral to criminal conduct" exception, by analogy to solicitation of a specific crime (see U.S. v. Williams). Just as telling a friend where she can illegally buy drugs is aiding and abetting illegal drug sales, so telling a friend where she can illegally get an abortion would be punishable aiding and abetting. But this bill appears to me to go considerably beyond that.
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One might hope that legislators would have a firmer grasp on the constitution. But hope is not change, and politicians will never change.
Several times a week our elected betters demonstrate that the oath they took upon being sworn in might has been written in Sanskrit. They give precisely zero shits about honoring them. A third grader would recognize this as unconstitutional.
South Carolina is a poorly educated, backward, bigoted state. A South Carolina college graduate probably operates above the level of an advanced state’s third-grader . . . maybe at the level of a better state’s middle schooler.
Rev. Lawyer question. The law rovides for civil liability for wrongful death, loss of licensure, and prosecution of a criminal enterprise. What does that last remedy mean? I would like to see an analysis of that last threat.
Tough call. Feminists vs dipshit lawyers drafting lawless statutes.
While I agree that there are some real dumba$$es in SC (having spent 16 years living there), and that many of the state's politicians fall into that category, I have to say that you have drastically overstated the situation.
This is a bad piece of legislation; but there is no guarantee that this will go further than being used as a subject of a campaign commercial.
A lot of legislation get proposed. Few bills get passed, let alone signed.
Sometimes, a hopeless bill gets allowed to go as far as committee, or even the floor. Often, it dies in committee.
The whole point of this is to grab the votes of a constituency that would support such legislation. I feel pretty confident that this won't pass.
Now, there is equally, if not MORE dumb legislation that is proposed by Leftists on a regular basis. Such a$$hattery doesn't become law.
What DOES affect us is regulations or interpretations by agencies, that is truly pernicious, but that is extremely difficult to uproot. And, that is the Left's specialty.
And people on either side pretend like their side is actually the 'good' ones.
They don't seem to notice that it's bullshit all around.
I'm a conservative. These laws being proposed by SC are every bit as unconstitutional as nearly all of the gun laws that exist in blue states and the ones that are being further proposed.
You're not a conservative, you're an atavistic bigot first and foremost.
Thanks for the new word, Sarcastr0.
(atavistic)
I sometimes fantasize about treating all politicians' public statements, especially campaign speeches, as being under oath, with any voter in their jurisdiction being able to sue them for perjury for blatant lies. Or if they are warned by lawsuits brought against unconstitutional bills which pass unchanged and are later found to be unconstitutional just as claimed before passage; they had their warning, they persisted, and they deserve to be held accountable.
But it's just a fantasy. Our betters will never let mere peons hold them accountable for their actions.
You support the end of all self dealt immunities as I do. Unconstitutional laws are below the standard of due care for a legislature. All damages from personal assets. Malpractice is not part of the job. Let them buy insurance.
Immunities come the psychotic delusion, the Sovereign speaks with the voice of God. That's crazy.
That is a nice fantasy...
The immunities are from a psychotic delusion, and fully justify violence as a recourse in formal logic. Formal logic is supreme over all rules of man. The only thing preventing the return to reality are men with guns imposing the sicko tyranny of the lawyer. They are as delusional as Commies, and just as rent seeking, just slicker.
Remember, we love to make it illegal to go to foreign countries for legal things there. I guess the difference is mmmmany people want that illegal.
Oh oh.
Other than having sex with minors, that's not generally true.
The difference, of course, is that there is no constitutional right to leave the United States. So leaving is conditioned upon not having sex with children.
I think there might be an international treaty involved in that one, too.
I imagine the 9th covers that. Or are we one of them commie paradises that you have to be mentally ill to want to leave?
"we love to make it illegal to go to foreign countries for legal things there"
We do? Please cite examples.
Unfamiliar with this, perhaps?
Wouldn't that be a reason for a court to strike down the law as unconstitutional on the freedom of speech ground? Or will the typical action to just stop this one provision of the law?
Even if the court concludes that this speech restriction is unconstitutionally overbroad, that would only justify striking down the speech restriction, not the other provisions that actually ban abortions and other non-speech conduct.
Change the context from speech to publishing. Can a newspaper publish an article identifying specific places to get an abortion if abortion is illegal in that state?
It seems the 1st amendment should protect that.
It should, but the current SCOTUS is itching to scrap the first amendment, and speech restrictions on abortion will be their vehicle to do so.
That's a silly fantasy. The 1st amendment is the most secure of the Bill of Rights, and the only one the Court really takes fully seriously.
Telling the government that, if they give somebody money to buy some product or service, they can't demand that the money not be spent getting it from a religious institution, is hardly establishment of religion.
The Court takes the 1st amendment really seriously, except when religion is involved, as we saw in Kennedy just the other day.
Free exercise is included in 1A too.
So is the establishment clause. Remember that one?
Brett - Genuine innocent question. The idea that a newspaper could be stopped from publishing abortion services addresses in another state naturally affronts me. But can a newspaper now be prevented from publishing the address (out-of-state or otherwise) of something we'd all agree was criminal, like location of a riot, or burning a temple or mosque, or where Jeff Bezos will be at 5 on Friday if someone cared to off him? What's the legal/constitutional difference?
Setting aside advocacy of criminal acts, I would say not. And I mean criminal where they happen, not criminal if they happened someplace else.
Newspaper publishes an article reporting on rumors that a mob is going to attack a Justice's house that evening, here's where they live? Eh, I think they could get away with it. (Though I suppose judges might have some personal interest in disagreeing that could sway their opinions.) They publish an article suggesting you might want to join that mob? I think they're in trouble at that point.
re: "the current SCOTUS is itching to scrap the first amendment"
I am really curious what evidence you have to support that claim. According to - I was going to say "most scholars" but I think the true answer might be "all" - this is the most speech-protective Supreme Court in history.
But it's not the most hostile to religion Supreme Court in history, which is their complaint.
SCOTUS should be exactly as hostile to religion as demanded by the establishment clause.
This week we had decisions in favor of Christian prayer in public schools and mandating public financing of Christian schools. (I use the term "Christian" here because everybody knows that the decisions would have gone the other way had it been some other religion).
Thomas is very clear about wanting to erode press freedom by overturning Sullivan and freedom of expression on the internet by railing against "big tech". Not sure how much support that has among the other eight justices, but Thomas is clearly hostile to 1A rights. (the right to contraception, same sex marriage, or "sodomy" are not 1A issues, but Thomas is also clearly hostile to those too)
Basically, the Supreme court has devolved into reflexively ruling in favor of "whatever Fox news is angry about this week" and are willing to twist facts, logic, and jurisprudence into pretzels to obtain the result they want. i.e. Gorsuch's laughable claim that the football coach praying on the 50 yard line with dozens of his charges circling him is somehow "private" and "quiet". Or they just refuse to give any reasons for their decisions via the shadow docket.
Recall that the very first SCOTUS ruling overturning a law under 1A was Stromburg in 1931 (although Gitlow a decade earlier established that 1A applied to the states, the court didn't invalidate or overturn anything in that case) The idea that the court can uphold 1A rights is fairly new (i.e. less than 100 years old), and arguably not "deeply rooted in the nation’s history".
I wish you were right about the current court being "the most speech-protective Supreme Court in history." Can anybody claim with a straight face that Texas v Johnson would go the same way with the current court?
Compare it to publishing names and addresses of legal pot dealers in a neighboring state, where pot is illegal in the newspaper's state. Would that be legal?
I thought about that. Let's take a not so hypothetical where businesses in states with legal recreational cannabis by billboards in neighboring states where it is illegal directing them to cross over and smoke up. I've seen them in Kansas and New Mexico on roads to Colorado. Can a state prevent that?
BIllboards don't cross state lines so there may be an argument that they are categorically different than electronic media (websites, email, social media, radio, TV, etc.) which do. My hunch is that restricting billboards this way would be a 1A violation, but given the current state of the court all bets are off.
This bill would apparently outlaw a google search for "Planned Parenthood clinics near me". Are we going to see an "abortion exception" to the 1A like we have a "drugs exception" to the 4A? Wouldn't surprise me at all.
I was thinking something along the line of a travel agency. Right to travel is allegedly a constitutional right.
"...Just as telling a friend where she can illegally buy drugs is aiding and abetting illegal drug sales, so telling a friend where she can illegally get an abortion would be punishable aiding and abetting...."
I have to admit, Eugene; I was surprised to read this. I didn't know that was the legal standard.
1. You say to me, "SM, I want to buy some meth. Where can I buy it?
2. You say to me, "SM, where can one buy meth?
3. "SM, I'm writing a book report on drug use. Here in town; where can I buy it?"
With 1, I can see liability...you've made it clear to a reasonable person (ie, me, in this case) that your goal is to go out and buy drugs, and my giving you the location info seems clearly to help you in that process.
With 2, I don't see it as nearly that clear. I know that I have, in my life, asked literally hundreds of questions where I was just curious about a subject. Is there some sort of reasonable listener standard, so that people innocently giving out factual information are not swept up in laws like the one you're discussion.
With 3, I hope you're gonna tell us that there's no way a reasonable person would have known the info would be used for an actual drug purchase, so there's no risk of being prosecuted. (Assuming good and ethical law enforcement, DAs, etc.) But maybe I'm wrong about that.
Going back to 1; if my response had been, "Oh, you can buy meth at 10th and Broadway. But, don't do it! Meth is illegal and *really* bad for you. If I ever find out that you're buying meth, I'm telling your parents right away!!!" I feel like it ought to matter, that I'm trying to turn you back to the straight-and-narrow. But I don't think that it does, in terms of my speech falling into unprotected status, yes?
I always thought if you stod on a corner and said, "You can buy drugs at that house over there." was illegal only if you were part of their operation, but not if you were a bystander pissed off at your neighnorhood.
That was how I saw it. Suppose I was upset at how bad it was in my neighborhood. Suppose I set up a table and a sign at an intersection and my sign said "This town is out of control. Across the street at 100, Main Street you can buy ANY drug you want, at any hour of the day, and the police will do nothing to stop you or shut them down!"
Is that abetting?
Would failure to employ GeoIP filtering to prevent access within the censoring state be just the same as purposefully directing the information to residents of the censoring state?
What if GeoIP filtering was deployed but it failed, or the resident of the censoring state used a method to circumvent it?
It doesn't even seem possible. There are plenty of cable internet providers where the service area crosses state lines, and what if my cell hits a tower across the same state border? I know for my own service anything that tries to determine my location by IP invariably choses a location over 50 miles from here. This doesn't even begin to address the issue of hosting. Suppose I decide to host outside of the state, or even the country for that matter. Estonia is making a killing now offering hosting for any information or service with no restrictions whatsoever.
South Carolina is in the 4th Circuit, which has a aomewhat broader definition of the solicitation to commit a crime exception to the First Amendment. Rice v. Paladin Enterprises, in an opinion by Judge Luttig (of recent January 6 hearings fame), concerned the book Hit Man, which contained both encouragement to join the exciting life of a contract killer and detailed information about how to prepare for, conduct, and cover up hits (as well as marketing, contract negotiation, and other aspects of the business). The 4th Circuit said that even though this book was directed at the general public and not a specific individual, the combination of encouragement to commit murder and very detailed information about how to do it and get away with it took the book outside the protections of the First Amendment. Judge Luttig held that a family of someone murdered by a reader of the book in a manner described in the book could sue.
Nonethelss, Paladin Enterprises requires considerably more than just a news report with some information anout how a particular murder was done.
It might well address a web sight that provides both encouragement to and detailed information about how to do or obtain an abortion analogous to the book Hit Man regarding murder for hire. And that’s a very likely scenario, so the difference between the 4th Circuit definition of the exception and Professor Volokh’s is probably going to be important But it clearly wouldn’t address Professor Volokh’s news report hypothetical.
If South Carolina wants its law to pass muster, it might want to read Paladin Enterprises carefully and perhaps quote its language in arriving at its definitions. Paladin Enterprises found that the crime solicitation exception requires that one have “the specific purpose of assisting and encouraging commission of such conduct and the alleged assistence and encouragement takes a form other than abstract advocacy.”
In Professor Volokh’s hypothetical news report mentioning the existence of an abortion clinic, the scienter (specific intent) requirement would be completely missing, and the encouragement requirement would be missing as well.
The 4th circuit quoted United States v. Barnett, a 1982 9th Circuit case, where the defendant had published a pamphlet with detailed instructions on how to make illegal drugs. So it’s not just the 4th Circuit.
“Other than abstract advocacy” is a bit vague. But the cases appear to involve detailed and specific instructions about how to commit the crime.
I haven’t seen the HBO documentary this Atlantic article describes. The Atlantic article certainly encourages forming underground abortion groups, but doesn’t contain a lot of specific details about how to form or operate one. If the HBO documentary itself both contains more details and describes them in a manner encouraging people to imitate them, then it might fall within the Paladin Enterprises crime solicitation exception.
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/06/the-janes-hbo-max-review-abortion-roe/661446/
I really wish Paladin Press hadn't been publishing that book; They ultimately went out of business because of it, and they published a lot of good books that didn't put them in legal jeopardy.
We swing from the left overreaching on abortion to the right wasting no time to show they are just as accomplished at overreach and willing to throw away what they have gained.
At least both sides are consistently stupid and equally willing to trample on peoples rights. Makes it easier to choose neither
I have to say that, as a pro-life South Carolinian, I'm finding myself somewhat embarrassed by the state legislature. I kind of doubt that they're genuinely unaware this law is unconstitutional; They have to KNOW that parts of it will be struck down. If only because they have staff who would be checking things like that.
So the unconstitutional parts are just theater.
But I don't just want my legislators to be pro-life. I also want them to respect the Constitution and the rule of law. I find this display rather disgusting, actually.
The unconstitutional parts may well torpedo the entire thing.
And that might even be the intent. As I said, this bill looks to me like pro-life theater.
Much like anti flag burning laws, it's outrage theater, politicians doing what they do best to get re-elected. They know it's unconstitutional but do it to make a point. A bad, unconstitutional point, but for outrage, the downside is minimal.
I'm sure some who actually care about the constitution vote for it in a cynical, utilitarian way, knowing it will get tossed out.
So what happens when the court *doesn't* toss it out?
Like the dog that caught the bus, they might not be so happy with the results.
Seems to me that's about where we are or will be soon. How would Texas v Johnson be decided today?
Bellmore, the unconstitutional parts are not theater. They come wrapped in a two-fold purpose. First, to use them to raise money for politics. Second, to scout the Supreme Court, prospecting for constitutional change. You do not get to dismiss that.
It’s theater, exactly like he said. They know it’s flagrantly unconstitutional because even if they’re too stupid to understand it on their own they’ve got staff who are telling them that. So they are almost certain it’ll never have effect. But maybe they fire up their core and pick up more votes and contributions.
Instead of theater you could also call it legislative virtue signaling.
Wasn't that more or less the conventional wisdom on overturning Roe? How did that turn out?
Good point. I just read the dissent summary in Texas V Johnson:
Dissent
Justice Stevens
Writing for the dissent, Justice Stevens argued that the flag's unique status as a symbol of national unity outweighed "symbolic speech" concerns, and thus, the government could lawfully prohibit flag burning.
What a load! Shocking that four justices actually claim to believe this crap. Be very afraid.
That also goes for the idea of a federal abortion ban. The Commerce Clause doesn't grant Congress the right to ban abortion any more than it gives Congress the right to force people to buy health insurance, to regulate guns in schools, or 90% of the things it is used to justify.
Yes, both a federal abortion ban, and a federal law prohibiting state abortion bans, would be outside the lawful authority of Congress.
The most Congress could do would be things around the edge, like the Hyde amendment.
Then why is the federal partial-birth ban still in effect almost 20 years after it was enacted?
Well, for starters, you didn't have 20 years of a Court which actually took seriously limits on federal jurisdiction.
Courts are supposed to read a law narrowly if the broad reading would be unconstitutional. As a judge hearing the case I would first rule "purposefully directed to a pregnant woman who is a resident of this State" to require intent rather than negligence or even reckless disregard. The information or service has to be targeted at pregnant women in South Carolina. A service like Uber or Airbnb, pretending to be a middleman between suppiers and consumers, would be covered by the law but a medical journal or a newspaper would not be. Now we are applying the law to persons whose intent is to facilitate illegal abortions and the First Amendment defense is a much closer call.
Is it an undue burden on speech to require checking the IP addresses of customers and legal research of each IP address' location's laws? It used to be an undue burden to require companies to know the complicated sales tax laws of their customers' jurisdictions but now it is not. In my robe as a judge hearing a challenge to this law, I'm tempted to punt and leave it to Congress to decide if a California company is required to know which abortions that are legal in California are illegal in South Carolina. Except deep down I know that the company has actual knowledge, because it was set up with the purpose of thwarting other states' abortion laws.
Even if you can somehow imagine a CA company has a duty to know that SC makes something illegal, does that really give you a duty to discriminate against South Carolinians? Can it give such a duty. I'd argue the dormant commerce clause protects the free flow of information.
Also, not all such websites will be run by companies with significant resources. Some might be blogs of private individuals. Why should they know or care what SC's law says? What possible duty could they have.
If it's legal where the server is, then it should be legal, period. That someone can navigate to a webpage outside their home area doesn't suddenly bring that webpage into their home area's jurisdiction. Just like they could physically travel across a state border, navigating to a webpage not hosted in your state is traveling across a state (or even country) border.
(And that's ignoring any 1st amendment issues).
Federalism is a complete joke because it flies directly in the face of human nature. Everyone wants their own views to be the law, not just where they live, but nationwide. Pro choicers will not be happy unless abortion is legal everywhere, and pro lifers will not be happy unless abortion is illegal everywhere.
Back when gay marriage was still being debated, a conservative Christian blogger posted that one of the reasons it shouldn't be legal is that bakers and florists would ultimately then be obligated to provide services for it even if they believed homosexuality was morally wrong. I asked in the comments section why we can't live in a world in which gay marriage is legal but no one is required to bake a cake for it. The answer I got is that that's just not the way humans do things; it's all or nothing. At the time I thought he was wrong; I'm now starting to think maybe that really is the way humans work.
Federalism is a bulwark against the 'everyone wants their own views to win nationwide' thing, though - that's arguably it's main strength.
In fact, I'd say a lot of what the Constitution does well is set up a system that has a lot of checks on the excesses of human nature.
Yeah, we broke a few of those checks along the way, on account of the average person not understanding them. But the Constitution was actually a pretty good design for government, not perfect, but pretty good. I could identify a few things in retrospect that could have been improved on, but it was a remarkable document.
A pity we're unlikely to ever get most of those checks back.
I like the Constitution as it is, a scaffolding upon which is a hodge-podge of reasoning and nonsense and progress and regress.
You like the Constitution as some kind of consistent ideological edifice you believe it to be.
I'm actually fine with reasonable checks and balances; I just think that what we actually got is completely unreasonable.
Think of it this way. There is agreement that speed limits save lives. You want to set it at 35 which, while that would save lives, is also completely unreasonable for conditions on the interstate. I'd like to set it at 70. We both agree with reasonable limits; we just disagree as to what's reasonable.
Related thought.
The Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act was predicated on Congress' Section 5 enforcement power, which gives Congress the power to enforce, through appropriate legislation, the protections set forth elsewhere in the 14th Amendment. One such was, until last week, a right to get an abortion under Section 1.
City of Boerne made clear that only the courts could define the substantive rights guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.
Does this all mean that the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act must also fall? Presumably, under current jurisprudence, Congress could rewrite the statute to prohibit interfering with people getting abortions on the grounds that they affect interstate commerce. But I don't see there being the appetite in Congress for this.
Abortion might not be a constitutional right, but that wouldn't mean that entering an abortion clinic wouldn't be a constitutional right. That's because freedom of travel is a constitutional right. One of the few unenumerated rights that gets much judicial respect.
So the act would be upheld, not as a defense of the 'right' to an abortion, but as a defense of the right to go where you please unmolested.
Actually, technically speaking, it's undetermined whether abortion is still a constitutional right. The previous decisions all dealt with substantive due process, but there are other theories -- privileges and immunities, equal protection, Ninth Amendment -- that to my knowledge have never been litigated. So it is theoretically possible that abortion might still be a constitutional right under one of those other theories, though I suspect the practical reality is that the current Supreme Court is unlikely to find a constitutional right to abortion under any theory. Though if I were representing Planned Parenthood I might try one of those other theories since what would there be to lose.
Dobbs said there is "no federal right" to an abortion and returned it to the states.
I don't think any of those lawsuits could be filed in good faith.
PP has filed several state suits [blood money must flow] so I think they agree.
But that sentence from Dobbs is dicta unless those theories were specifically being litigated. They can't say there's no federal right under a theory they never decided.
Roe was a equal protection case ["ordered liberty"] as well as [oxymoronic] substantive due process.
9th in Griswold [penumbras!] was abandoned in Roe because it was widely mocked.
You have to have a good faith for extension of law. So long as the current lineup exists, there are no theories that will work.
Right, but the freedom of travel is only between states, not specifically to enter the clinic, is it?
The law also prohibited using force against the clinics themselves. It's provisions like those that I am curious as to whether they'd survive Dobbs.
Well, it might be a little bit of an infringement on the first amendment, but it seems a common sense exception.
Maybe they should just prohibit pregnant women from accessing the internet or other sources of information. And since some women may not know they are pregnant, prohibit all women from accessing the internet. And to avoid gender discrimination, prohibit everyone from accessing the internet.
Am I doing slippery slope right?
It was. But is the First Amendment crime solicitation exception different for criminal cases than for civil ones? In any event United States v. Barnett, a 9th Circuit case involving a pamphlet with detailed instructions on how to make illegal drugs, was a criminal case.
Those constitute less than .01% of abortions.
Hi, Rhoid. What a tremendous point, bruh.
Hi, Rhoid. Great comment, bruh. What does it mean?
Agree completely, but unfortunately on both sides of this issue sanity, common sense, and reason seem to be completely separated from legislation.
"why not an exception?"
Because the a-holes on the Roe court stupidly removed it from politics so extremists gained traction on both flanks.
Not just among pro-lifers, extremists on the left got abortion until crowning in NY and California.
Touché, bruh.
Roe permitted the prohibition of abortion in the third trimester, so good try.
"Abortion, also known as pregnancy termination, was legalized up to the 24th week of pregnancy in New York (NY) in 1970, three years before it was decriminalized (then criminalizeable) for the entire United States with the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade in 1973. The Reproductive Health Act, passed in 2019 in New York, further allows abortions past the 24th week of pregnancy if a woman's life or health is at risk or if the fetus is not viable. " wikipedia
So it was only extended past 24 weeks in 2019. So good try.
What? New York elected to permit third-trimester abortions in 2019, consistent with Roe allowing, not requiring, the prohibition of third-trimester abortions.
Roe:
For the stage subsequent to viability [i.e., roughly the second of the second trimester], the State in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.
They waited 46 years to take advantage. That is completely consistent with my original comment about extremists.
It took several turnovers of leadership before you got people that radical in charge.