The Volokh Conspiracy
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Mikhail Baryshnikov on Russian Invasion of Ukraine: Choosing "a Russia of Pushkin" over "a Russia of Putin"
From TrueRussia.org, founded by Baryshnikov, prominent Russian writer Boris Akunin, and economist Sergey Guriev (all expats):
The "Russian Federation," which has been taken over by a dictator, has unleashed a criminal war.
This is a blow to all of us who belong to the Russian culture and who speak Russian. The very word "Russian" has become, in the world's eyes, toxic.
But a thousand times worse is what is happening to our close kin, the Ukrainian people. Before our eyes a true humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding. Many hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have lost everything: their homes, their livelihoods, their property.
And the number of refugees will grow, the situation will only get worse. Most of us are far from where this is happening, many very far. We have no power to end this nightmare. But we cannot, we do not want to, we do not have the right to do nothing. The least that we can do is to help people who are fleeing the Russian—no, the Putin—army.
Let all of us in the Russian world help Ukrainian refugees.
The dictator is waging war not only on Ukraine, but also on his own country, denying it its future, stamping out and destroying all that is living, replacing it everywhere with death. But the true Russia, is bigger, stronger, and longer lasting than Putin's "RFia." It lives and will remain living.
Let us prove this to ourselves and to the whole world. Please, contribute to help Ukrainian refugees.
Russians of all countries, unite against the war!
The "There is a Russia of dictatorship, and there is a Russia of culture, a Russia of Putin and a Russia of Pushkin" quote is from Baryshnikov in a Vanity Fair article. I learned of the project through a video by Andrey Makarevich, a prominent anti-war Russian singer.
You can contribute here; the funds will go through the UK-based Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC). I asked DEC whether they have a US-tax-deductible affiliate, but they told me no; I also have a query in to TrueRussia. TrueRussia's appeal has apparently raised over $1M at this point.
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The lawyer will not understand. $trillion in breakage. Tens of thousands dead on both sides. Destruction of 2 economies. Worldwide recession, causing millions in deaths from starvation.
That is not preferable to the eradication of a head of state, his oligarchs, and their heirs. This is a third grade word math problem involving only addition and subtraction. This is way beyond the ability of the lawyer to understand.
TBF Russia has had strongmen since pretty much its foundation and absolutist leaning leaders have seemed to be the rule rather than the exception. So is there really a Russia besides the Russia of dictators?
That may be Russian culture, and none of our business. True. When they invade other nations, the head of state and their oligarchs should forfeit their lives. To deter.
I hope there is a "true Russia," as described, that differs from and is better than the Russia currently operated by Mr. Putin (and the Russia/Soviet Union I have observed for more than a half-century).
Countries and cultures are complicated things. The notion that there is a "true Russia," like a "true America," is silly. Each carries its own historical and cultural forces.
The history of Russia is not one that would make anyone sanguine about its respect for human rights, democracy or its neighbors.
Artie. Do you support or oppose the eradication of Putin, his oligarchs and all heirs?
I hope Russians rid themselves of Putin without delay; diminish or eliminate the wealth and privilege of oligarchs who plundered Russia and frustrated social improvement; and generally and substantially improve their country's government, economy, and culture.
I believe inheritance should (beyond a modest exemption) be taxed at least as much as are most earnings in all contexts. That standard would be at least as appropriate in Russia as it is in the United States. If Russians decided to tax inheritance from oligarchs more aggressively, particularly for a generation or two, that likely would be a reasonable judgment.
"rule rather than the exception"
Kerensky, Gorbachev, Yeltsin
That's it.
To some extent, I think you could even make the argument for Khrushchev. I think given the times, he went as far as he could before they removed him.
I had the same thought. Pushkin lived from 1799 to 1837. Russia was then an autocracy, and remained so for some time after. Tyranny and cultural achievements in the arts are not contradictory.
I have come to the conclusion that most "cultural achievements" are figments of elitist imagination. Why else would Hitler and Nazis be so condemned, even at the time, while Lenin/Stalin/Mao and Communists get a free pass from everybody, including a lot of conservatives, in spite of Communists having murdered 5-10 times as many civilians as Nazis?
I think it is because Germany was considered a "civilized" nation, even after WW I, and Hitler was seen as a wrecker, a spoiler, a destroyer. While Russia was seen as a backwards impoverished backwater, in spite of world famous authors and composers. Even its alphabet is mysterious. It still had slaves in all but name. And in spite of having rebuilt its navy from scratch within a decade after Japan had destroyed it in the 1905 war, it was seen as an agricultural nation, so Lenin and Stalin were lauded as having industrialized it.
Russia's culture meant nothing as far as being civilized by the standards of the day. Thus I think culture is overrated as a means of measuring "civilized".
It's my thesis, and I'm sticking with it.
Faulty thesis, please modify it. Hitler is hated because he had suckered half the intelligentsia of Europe into agreeing with him, especially as an alternative to the rabble of communism, only to backstab them. It was easier to hate him for being a deplorable, a Corporal, than it was to see Stalin leading grubby serf-people into the light of industrialization as you point out. That the core of Hitler's 'philosophy' was little different than communism didn't matter, he was not one of the Enlightened and exposed himself in the worst way.
Seemingly half of academia is Marxist today, either openly or subconsciously.
Treating Stalin as less grubby than Hitler is a laugh. Stalin was a known bank robber. Hitler won the Iron Cross.
For better or worse, humans think about starvation through gross neglect as different from intentional gassing.
Plus, the documentation. The Iron Curtain covered a multitude of sins while the Allies worked very hard to document what Nazi Germany had wrought.
One of the things that angers Putin is that America has seemingly suffered no negative consequences for our asinine foreign policy of this century. Trump surrendered to the Taliban and yet America isn’t about to fall like the Soviet empire!?! And it’s all thanks to our magical printing press that solves all problems. Btw, our magical printing press also allows us to bestow largesse on our NATO partners which also angers Putin.
Sigh. Oh, sure.... Let's point out the difference, just using one example.
In 2001, terrorists hijacked 4 aircraft in the United States, and used them as weapons to kill nearly 3000 US Citizens in New York City and Washington DC. This is considered an act of war under most common definitions. US authorities found the leaders of this terrorist organization, and that they were hiding in Afghanistan. The United States demanded the Taliban hand over Bin Laden. The Taliban said "eehh, no." So, the United States responded accordingly.
Now, if a Ukraine was hiding a terrorist leader who had just detonated a few hundred tons of TNT under the Kremlin and killed a few thousands Russians in Moscow, and said "No Russia, we won't hand him over, what you gonna do?"....then it might be a different situation. But that didn't happen.
"Yugoslavia (1991), Kosovo (1999)"
No it didn't. The reason no one is "scandalized" by those is that you, when bringing it up, is seemingly incapable of actually arguing honestly. Citing those is completely dishonest.
This is a war that at least appears to be the attempted conquest of a neighbor.
I don't love a lot of the US adventurism you pointed out, but those are not the same as what Putin is doing here.
Nato did not seek to subjugate, and demand territory or else to protect ethnic Germans, sorry, ethnic Russians who desired the Fatherland, sorry, Motherland.
I will not draw parallels, ignoring who is on which side. Dictatorships have no legitimacy. Having to deal with them in practice, sure. Not wanting to risk lives and national treasure, sure, again. But no dictator has legitimacy, and so their security concerns aren't just null, they are negative.
And AQ was degraded by December 2001. And yet we orchestrated some false flags in order to perpetuate the asinine War on Terror/Bush re-election campaign. We will liberate Muslims by slaughtering Muslims.
And keep in mind Putin can’t afford to get stuck in a quagmire because he has a budget and a certain amount of savings. Getting stuck in a quagmire is a luxury that only America can afford…but $2 trillion for a Muslim girls robot team was well worth it. I only lament that had we stayed longer maybe a little boy on hormone replacement therapy could have made the Muslim girls robot team…so sadz.
Btw, if you Google “Afghans with purple fingers” one of the first links is to the Bush library—poor Laura Bush is going to have to change her exhibit at the Bush library. Double sadz. 🙁 🙁
If you read the 2014 Torture Report it concludes torture didn’t lead to actionable intelligence…but only because the detainees had no actionable intelligence to offer. So AQ was degraded by December 2001 and all that was needed was a police operation to arrest the stragglers. Nation building was mission creep and it was done at the behest of the Military Industrial Complex. After reading about NATO expansion and sending lethal aid to Ukraine I believe in the MIC more than ever…it’s not a conspiracy theory.
Women are getting more rights under the Taliban, who recently passed a law allowing any person to fill traditional men-only jobs .... if they have enough facial hair to shave. Shoving it in the face of the Woke.
"support for Ukraine in this situation just as silly"
Poland was basically a military dictatorship in 1939. Was support for Poland also "silly"?
"Hiding a terrorist leader? He was in Pakistan."
To pick out just one error, OBL was in Afghanistan when we invaded:
"After the September 11 attacks, US President George W. Bush demanded that the Taliban hand over Osama bin Laden and expel al-Qaeda; bin Laden had already been wanted by the FBI since 1998. The Taliban declined to extradite him,..."
I don’t necessarily believe support for Ukraine is silly, I do believe that a diplomatic solution couldn’t have been orchestrated is silly because Ukraine is essentially if not in fact a failed state that would probably be better off with fewer people and would definitely have been better off with American and Russian $$$$ for infrastructure improvements instead of $$$$ for death a destruction.
"annexing into NATO "
They wanted to join. They can leave at any time.
Time to stop doubling down on stupidity.
"The United States has extended its sphere of political and military influence to almost all the satellite states of the former Soviet Union, even recently, annexing into NATO ..."
Or to phrase it differently, the countries that had been seized by the USSR at the end of WWII and ruled by force from Moscow, jumped at the chance to join an alliance that might protect them from reconquest by Russia.
"Practically speaking, the Russian Federation is under military threat – from weapons and missile bases – just a few miles from its borders, ..."
The only threat to Russia is China.
I rather expect my neighbor the cop has a gun. That doesn't mean he is a threat to me.
The first part of your name is apt today.
We should spend $2 trillion so women can have rights in Assghanistan!! Remember when you wept for poor little Elian Gonzalez and then you wept at the sight of Muslims with purple fingers?? Oh, and you nitwits called me a traitor for opposing Iraq and daring to be critical of Bush?? And now you casually call people like Lez Cheney and Hitlery war criminals that belong in Gitmo.
WW II proved that the problems of Europe have bad effects on us too.
"people I love dearly"
So much you'd condemn them, and their parents and grandparents before them, to slavery and death.
FDR didn't ask Congress to declare war because most Americans believed as you do now. Wrong then, wrong now.
This is from third grade. I agree.
Sebbie. 2008. Caused by Iraq invasion. That was pretty bad.
Natos invasion isn't capable to this one. At all. Either your misinformed or actively spreading wrong information ... or your a Russian nationalist. In which case ... I mean ok, whatever.
It isn't comparable. We invaded to stop an active genocide occurring of the Bosnian people. Anyone who keeps citing this invasion is weirdly unwilling to acknowledge this, and there appears to a lot of rewriting history by Russian nationalists as to what happened. The invasion also occurred with the blessing of international institutions, the Serbian president was tried before the ICC.
At the end of it, they worked out a government structure. NATO didn't "annex" land.
In Iraq for as much of a mistake that invasion was ... Sadam Hussein was a murdering psychopath. He deserved what he got. Ukraine is a democracy.
People who keep making comparisons with the Russia invasion to NATOs appear unwilling to acknowledge basic reality. Conservatives used to fight for freedom. It might have been a mistake in many cases to impose western values on others but those values are, and always will be, far superior to that of Russia.
NATO is not an offensive military alliance.
Russia's protests are not legitimate, they're an after-the-fact excuse.
This is RT nonsense. Next you'll be calling this 'more of a Civil War within Russia, really.'
Oy.
This again? Prior to the war no one, except maybe Putin, believed that Ukraine would join NATO. No one. That Putin believed it is ... so we are supposed to base everything on his delusions?
Putin said himself his goal is to recreate the Russian empire. And Putin has repeatedly violated pretty much every recent agreement in relation to Ukraine so going back to 1997 for some treaty is irrelevant.
Your argument basically amounts to, we should just let Ukraine become what Belarus became. That's not what the Ukrainian people want. Neutrality is one thing but Putin has violated the neutrality of every country not under NATO protection ... it is naive to think he will respect it here.
The years 1945-89/91 in those nations is pretty strong evidence as to why you would seek out protection in a defensive alliance from Russia. Small countries in Eastern Europe tend to become Russian satellites without outside protection.
A pretext for what?? This war really is about spheres of influence and it’s not about oil or enriching the MIC or helping a re-election campaign after the president stole an election as Iraq and Assghanistan were about.
We have been sending Ukraine NATO compliant weapons for years—this is really about NATO and Western influence over Ukraine. That said, after the invasion we have more justification than ever to continue to expand NATO and increase Western influence.
"That's not what the Ukrainian people want."
That's the key thing. I don't care what Russia wants, or what NATO wants. The Ukrainians should get to decide what they want. If they want to reconstitute the USSR and become the Ukrainian SSR again, that's their business. If they want to join the EU, that's their business.
The Ukranians don't want to be in the Russian "sphere". Don't they count at all?
"Conservatives used to fight for freedom."
We still do. mad speaks for a tiny fringe
"about it not being our problem"
The American people {Dem, GOP and no party] overwhelmingly favor supporting Ukraine with arms and sanctions.
But we are closer to nuclear war than we have been in a long time because we are aiding Ukraine.
"Dick Cheney wannabe on this topic of Ukraine and Russia"
Giving arms to Ukraine and imposing sanctions is not US intervention. Its the least we can do.
the anti-war left is today being shouted down.
You think the Dems are all in for war with Russia?
"sending Ukraine NATO compliant weapons for years"
Not until after Russia invaded in 2014.
US and Europe policy in Ukraine is just reaction to Russian aggression.
Putin is angered by our magical printing press that allows us to cover up all mistakes and shower our partners with largesse. So if America agrees not to show Ukraine with largesse as we have been doing for years then Russia and the West can compete for Ukraine’s hand on even ground.
So let’s look at Assghanistan—after 2001 their economy experienced a “miracle” because America created a socialist economy based on handouts from Uncle Sam. So Assghanistan doubled in population as Assghanis called up cousins in Pakistan to come home and meet their new sugar daddy and Assghani couples had babies based on their new wealth from American largesse. Obviously doing that in Ukraine would be much more expensive as they have a higher standard of living but that is a legitimate concern of Putin’s.
But sending aid has prolonged a war Putin believes should have ended years ago. Once again, how is my life improved by weakening Putin?? How does NATO expansion improve my life??
Tucker Carlson is not the fringe.