A Thought on Today's Events

If you encourage people in a false belief, then you bear some responsibility when they act as though it were true.

Comments

[Ben_]

Now do Russia collusion.

Now do "Hands up, don’t shoot".

Now do "15 days to stop the spread".

[Ben_]

How about "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Period."

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Getting bitch-slapped by your betters into cultural irrelevance has made you cranky and disaffected, Ben.

Good.

[Union of Concerned Socks]

As long as we keep the betters and the lessers straight (and segregated), it's all good.

[Ben_]

Leftist truth

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Whimper all you want. Cry a little,too. But toe the line, or you will wish you had.

[bevis the lumberjack]

As usual Kirkland has no hope of actually addressing a point he disagrees with, so he goes full personal attack with his usual meaningless schtick.

Virtually all of us are YOUR betters.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Democratic House. Democratic Senate. Democratic President. Liberal-libertarian mainstream majority.

You lose, clingers. You deserve to lose. You will continue to lose. Lose with dignity or without, but you will comply with the preferences of decent, educated, modern, reasoning Americans. Republicans and conservatives deserve everything that is coming to them.

[Union of Concerned Socks]

Yeah, you lessers! Listen to your better! Preach it, Rev! Nyah!

[y81]

Sachs doesn’t have either the moral courage or the intellectual coherence to do those ones.

[Ben_]

More like no social esteem available for those.

[y81]

That is covered by my imputation of moral cowardice.

[KevinP]

Black Lives Matter

[MoreCurious]

Which reminds me of something I was wondering about today: Assume the exact facts and the same players, but consider that 95% of the rioters were black, not white. How many would have survived the encounter with the police (who acted at times like they were breaking up a noisy frat party)?

[Ben_]

Capitol police have seen everything. They deal with protests every day. It would have been the same.

[chrisare]

How would the media usage of "mob" and "riot" and "violent" have changed had they been mostly black?

[Ben_]

Protesters would have been called heroes

[loki13]

It must be so very frustrating to continue to defend the indefensible.

You have my sympathy. You’re like the guy at Trump U who looks around and notices everyone else has left and says, “Wait ... are you saying that I’m the Mark?”

Best of luck when the mania fades, but I’d check your wallet.

[Ben_]

I mostly just like pointing out double standards. But pointing out shallow bandwagoneering is ok too. I don't think anyone is fooled by the pretense any more.

Trump accomplishments are all still accomplished, BTW.

[loki13]

You must be awfully proud of that! You seem proud.

I hope that works out well for you! ????

[Ben_]

I never once for a second thought any of it was about me.

I will guess you may not understand that idea because you never once thought something that happened mattered beyond what it means to you personally.

[loki13]

Huh!

You clearly have me mistaken for your narcissistic hero, Trump.

Honestly, I would be flattered, but it’s not like my posts are that banal. Maybe I should lie more?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I mostly like stomping on the aspirations and values of bigoted right-wingers. It is important and fun. You get to take it, Ben. Like it or not.

[Noscitur a sociis]

So the problem is that by defending this, you're applying exactly the same double standard.

People with a desire for morality and justice aspire to do better than their adversaries, not to outpace them in a race to the bottom.

[Ben_]

Standards are out the window until there's a reason to have them again. Cease fire agreements need to be agreed to mutually.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Cease fire?

Comply or get run over, you bigoted pussy. Hope we show some leniency.

[David Nieporent]

Trump accomplishments are all still accomplished, BTW.

True; NATO is weaker, Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran are stronger. Close to half a million excess American deaths have occurred, and unemployment is massive. All still accomplished.

[Michael P]

It's too bad that Democrats have been encouraging the indefensible for decades; otherwise, you might have seemed to have a point. The mostly peaceful protest today must not have involved enough punching back twice as hard, bringing a gun to a knife fight, shooting Congressional softball practices, assaulting Senators doing yard work, or trying to burn down occupied federal buildings to really get the endorsement of modern Democrats.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Keep clinging, bigot. But get out of the way, or get run over.

[starlord1988]

I am not defending those other things, but whataboutism is a terrible form of argument.

[Ben_]

It’s pretty good for pointing out when so-called standards only exist to point fingers at others and don't constrain the behavior of finger-pointers at all.

[Queen Amalthea]

Do you seriously think the damage of the 'Russia Collusion' and Trump's feeding of election conspiracies since his lost are equivalent? In the first some obvious foreign agents (and, ironically, uber-'Deep Staters' [if that term is to have any meaning]) were outed and punished. In the second...well, you say today, didn't you?

[Ben_]

Two things are not exactly equivalent so the one I care about matters and nothing else matters at all.

Your argument for people to agree to be bound by double standards is unpersuasive. Cease-fire agreements need to be mutual.

[Queen Amalthea]

Er, if two things are not equivalent then it's not a double standard to see them differently...

[Ben_]

It’s a double standard to ask for better behavior from one side than you allow on the other.

BLM and Antifa "mostly peaceful protests" killed a several people and went on for months. BLM and Antifa get rewarded by people like you.

[Mike Adamson]

Truth

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

How long until at least one Conspirator faults Twitter and Instagram for declining to publish Trump's dangerous nonsense for 24 hours?

[Dr. Ed 2]

You mean like his "please go home" post?

[MoreCurious]

You mean like his "please go home" post, delivered with his fingers crossed behind his back?

[Ben_]

Clearly your understanding transcends facts

[Queen Amalthea]

Where, much after the fact, he called them Patriots, expounded on the nonsense that inflamed them yet again and then told them to go home? Wow, that's leadership in a time of crisis....

[Ben_]

Did that make you feel bad?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Wiping my political shoes on your tongue makes me happy, because I can’t stand bigots. Want to cry about it, or just pull a Ted Cruz and pretend it isn’t happening?

[Jimmy the Dane]

Or if you tell people with strongly held beliefs that they are stupid then censor dissent, you might be fomenting and reinforcing that belief but limiting their outlet to the extent where they have nothing left but taking to the street. Insert something about glass houses and throwing stones.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I much prefer to quote Yeats -- the middle shall cease to hold...

[Noscitur a sociis]

You might want to read the poem at least once before trying to quote it incessantly, you illiterate, treasonous imbecile.

[Queen Amalthea]

Indeed, Dr. Ed 2 is the furthest thing from Yeats center that can be imagined.

[Ridgeway]

He is full of passionate intensity, though.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Dr. Ed, you failed to quote Yeats.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Your beliefs are a childish mix of ignorance, bigotry, superstition, and lies. Neither they nor ,you deserves respect from competent adults. So stand aside and let the adults handle this. Or you will wish you had. Your call, clinger.

[Queen Amalthea]

What if their beliefs are stupid? Creationists are many and hold strongly held beliefs, should they get equal time and consideration in biology class? If biology teachers dismiss the idea as stupid and not worth time in class should the creationists in the class rush up and knock over the lab equipment?

Also, this idea that Trump supporters have been the victim of 'limiting their outlet to the extent where they have nothing left but taking it to the streets' is, well, you'll forgive me on pain you're going to riot here I guess, stupid. Trump and his supporters got to take their case to many places, including many courts with very favorably situated judges. It went nowhere because the claims were...again, I guess you're going to have to riot,...stupid. Trump's claims have, from the outset and until now been of the quality of someone who screams a soccer game is rigged because the winning goal is scored in the 90+2 minute ('the game is composed of two 45 minute halves, where is this point dump after that point coming from, Stop the Steal!!!).

He pushed such dumb claims, many of his supporters are dumb enough to buy them, to what ends are the rest of us to go to placate this dumbness? I ask you that in seriousness. Many people have taken the time to, calmly and respectfully, explain to him and them that, well, extra time is part of soccer games, nothing unusual and nefarious. But he and they don't buy it, they just hurl the same or another equally dubious charge. There's no way to placate that kind of thing.

[Ben_]

Oppressing people because they are not like you and you look down on them. Hmm....

Nope. Can’t possibly have any negative consequences.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Democratic House. Democratic Senate. Democratic President. Liberal-libertarian mainstream. Liberal-libertarian majority. Liberal-libertarian American future. More conservative failure in the culture war. Pick the way you will accept this. But you will comply, clinger. Try to ditch the bigotry, superstition, backwardness, and belligerent ignorance. Try to develop some reason, some character, some decency. Or remain a deplorable clinger, knowing I look down on you will enjoying a nice beer, and victory in America.

[David Nieporent]

Did you ever consider that you're not oppressed, but instead you're just a loser?

[Union of Concerned Socks]

Helluva column. Why don't you just give up actual writing and join the peanut gallery?

[Jason Cavanaugh]

Having continued to watch the livestream since the House and Senate resumed session, the Trumpers may have committed the ultimate political irony:

Most of the Senators are pissed. None have voiced objections from either side. Most of the Representatives are similarly unhappy, though a few batshit insane ones have railed onwards (Hey Mo!).

Trumpers storming the Capitol may have just united Congress long enough to realize the cancer which has been growing with every breath of Trumpism, and they may have just signed their political death sentence. Congress won't have any more of their bullshit after having their own lives put at risk.

Congratulations Trumpers. 🙂

[Jimmy the Dane]

No one's life was at risk. Unlike when race mobs were ready to lynch a US Senator. Or a guy shot up the Republican baseball team.

[Angammus]

Tell that to the dead woman.

[Jimmy the Dane]

Yeah why did the police shoot an unarmed protester? That is a good question.

[MollyGodiva]

She was trying to break into an area that was being protected. You storm the Capital you risk getting shot.

[Dr. Ed 2]

MAGA Lives Matter.

We start burning buildings tomorrow.

Oh, wait, we don't do that...

[MollyGodiva]

Yes, the Trumpers do, not with fire today, but yes, they are as bad as we all knew them to be.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Trumpers burn buildings? Doesn’t help your argument to make shit up

Jimmy, we’re up to 4 dead, so some lives were at risk.

[MollyGodiva]

I said not fire today.

[Jimmy the Dane]

Oh OK. Glad to see you being so accepting of police action.

[Ben_]

Now do sneaking across a national border with a minor child.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It is unfortunate she was killed. It also is unfortunate that she was a belligerently ignorant, gullible, superstitious, deluded, bigoted, QAnon-steeped, Trump-loving, conservative dumbass.

[Jason Cavanaugh]

Sorry my disaffected, delusional friend. I can't hear you over the facts of today's events.

All of which prove irrefutably that you are wrong.

[Brett Bellmore]

This was so obviously contrary to Trump's own interests, that the term 'agents provocateurs' comes to mind. Not "irony".

Who knows, in a few years we may be talking about this as a Reichstag fire, not insurrection.

Now, I'll admit that some evidence may come out that Trump was, secretly, behind the break in. But I do object to just assuming it, and proceeding as though that evidence were not needed.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"If you encourage people in a false belief, then you bear some responsibility when they act as though it were true."

That is the most disgusting thing I have seen in a long time -- what you are saying that anyone who disputes the prescribed facts (i.e. every defense attorney that exists) bears "responsibility when [anyone acts] as though it were true."

Do you have any idea of the implications of that statement?!?

Let's say you are defending an accused rapist. Let's even say you genuinely think that he is innocent. And then some third pasty burns down the alleged victim's house, with her and her three children inside it.

Should you be responsible for this?

May I suggest you reconsider your initial dtatement?

[bevis the lumberjack]

Your mouthpiece that was giving us just the dirty facts about voting problems told us that the Chief Justice is part of a pedophile and that Pence should be arrested for, well, something.

I’d be wondering about his mental stability if I were you.

[Queen Amalthea]

A pasty burns down the house?

[Krayt]

He has a beef with detractors.

[David Nieporent]

It was a typo, dummy. He meant "pastry."

[David Nieporent]

Why on earth would someone burn down an alleged victim's house because you defend the accused rapist? Your analogy makes no sense.

Also, defense attorneys do not in fact "dispute prescribed facts."

And if you "genuinely think that he is innocent," it has even less relevance to the principle that he's mentioning.

[AmosArch]

As a person who does not believe that there was any grand coordinated attempt to 'steal' the 2020 election, at least in the crude direct way of stuffing fake ballots. It is still obvious to anyone without partisan blinders that this theory still has as much merit if not more than many of the theories that the Dems parrot without controversy many of them election related and linked to violence as well.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Exactly -- but I think a simpler analogy is every criminal defense attorney that ever existed. Why aren't they willing to simply accept the police/prosecutor's version of the facts and call it done?

[Queen Amalthea]

"this theory still has as much merit if not more than many of the theories that the Dems parrot without controversy many of them election related and linked to violence as well."

Such as?

[AmosArch]

Everyone of the below is even less supported than the idea that there was 2020 election malfeasance.

Russia 'hacked' the 2016 election in any significant manner.

There is a grand conspiracy by the male/white/christian/heterosexual/cisgendered establishment to keep women/nonwhites/atheists/homosexuals/transgenders down.

White supremacists, (as in real ones, not just conservatives twitter labels as white supremacists) are one of the most powerful interest groups in the contemporary West and not just a boogeyman for the Left.

White supremacists are a relevant and powerful group in the contemporary West.

You can change from a boy to girl by lopping off your penis and issuing life affirming tweets.

Men and women are identical down to the the last proton in every aspect and believing otherwise is a delusional social construct.

I can basically go on and on through the progressive platform.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

The Ballad of the Vanquished, Impotent Clinger.

Deplorable, too.

[Krayt]

Boys, boys! Both sides suck and our constitution struggles to stop the aggregation of ever more powers by the power hungry, whose spouses are all mysteriously stock picking geniuses.

[Aktenberg78]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You push ordinary Americans enough, eventually they bite back.

They have been replaced by third worlders, and you expect them to not be angry about it.

[Dr. Ed 2]

What white shoe lawyers fail to realize is that there is a populist belief that the attorney who defends a murderer should *also* be executed.

Just sayin....

[Aktenberg78]

I've never heard anyone argue that, but I have heard them argue that they're scum for doing so.

[Dr. Ed 2]

You've never driven a truck...

[StellaLink_the dog]

Where do you get all this trucker knowledge? Have you been hanging out at truck stops supplementing your income?

[David Nieporent]

Neither have you.

[Queen Amalthea]

"They have been replaced by third worlders, and you expect them to not be angry about it."

Trumpism, folks.

If only we had an election integrity commission this fellow would be satisfied!

[David Nieporent]

I mean, since you're just a troll — whether a RW troll or a left-wing provocateur remains to be determined — this question is pretty wasted as directed at you, but maybe someone else can answer: who are these people who think that what you mean by ordinary Americans are being pushed?

[Dan Schiavetta]

PLEASE, Eugene, take your blog out of Reason. The commenters have become 95% hateful kooks. The VC'ers are wasting their time here.

[AmosArch]

A so called 'libertarian' on a 'libertarian blog' is essentially arguing for the concept of a thought crime and you think the commentators are kooks. lmao.

[Queen Amalthea]

Yeah, a private blogger moving his blog away from a private blog because he doesn't care much for the riff raff it attracts there is 'thought crime.' At some point silly hyperbole suggests ignorance (in this case of libertarian principles).

[AmosArch]

No I don't care whether or not Eugene moves this site off the silly faux libertarian Reason broken website. I'm just pointing out the poster is essentially calling for impeachment based upon Trump simply holding and expressing a particular belief.

[David Nieporent]

No. For deliberately inciting a coup attempt.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Wrong. This blog belongs here. Wishful thinking does not change that point. Lathering these goobers is all this blog has.

[MollyGodiva]

YES!!
VC was so much better when it was a stand alone blog.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

And some mill towns, mining towns, and buggy whip manufacturing centers were worthwhile communities before economic decline, bright flight, poor decisions, substandard people, and the progress of better communities turned them into decaying pools of economic inadequacy, indolence, disaffectedness, ignorance, bigotry, superstition, and Republican Party voters.

[Don Nico]

What is the story concerning the white woman who was shot and died?

[Jimmy the Dane]

According to the media she deserved it. So there you go.

[Aktenberg78]

She was white, so obviously she did.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

The video and photographs are readily available.

[Dr. Ed 2]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/6/woman-shot-us-capitol-dies/

The Dems have now created a martyr -- not unlike the woman who died in Charlottesville.

I fear that this is going to get even uglier...

[Noscitur a sociis]

Okay, I give up.

How is the fault of "The Dems"?

[Queen Amalthea]

Everything is the fault of the Dems (who are just the puppets of the Chi-Coms, of course).

[StellaLink_the dog]

"I fear that this is going to get even uglier…"

Bullshit. You fantasize about it getting uglier.

[Aktenberg78]

I do. I would love the country to descend into chaos so that we can have the cleansing we so desperately need.

[MollyGodiva]

She was trying to climb though a window inside the capital where the police were protecting members of congress on the other side. There is a video but the like that I saw it on is not removed.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Every single fucking Marxist academic, every single Gender Studies academic, every single Socialist.

Every cotton-picking statist who promises government is the solution.

[A Guy]

You are all responsible.

[M L]

Wow so true. Like the tenets of black lives matter. Russian collusion. "They're gonna put y'all back in chains!!!!" Or most of what the mainstream media does day in and day out.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/06/08/USAT/ff2dfc92-6442-4ab3-aee5-ef54abf01fd2-AP_America_Protests_Congress.jpg

[AtR]

The dogma be strong with this one ...

[Raul M. Nunez Sheriff, Esq.]

We should say her name; Ashli Babbit, 14 year USAF veteran with 4 tours of duty in the Middle East, shot and killed in a crowd, sight unseen by Capitol Police, through the frosted glass door to the legislative chambers (there are pictures of the perpetrator online).

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

So . . . Loser in the military, loser in politics, loser in life, loser in death.

[Aktenberg78]

I hope you get a tumor

[John F. Carr]

I have heard of a few cases in Texas where a guy shot somebody who was apparently raping or about to rape his wife or daughter, but the dead guy turned out to be a secret boyfriend. In one case the wife was convicted of manslaughter on the grounds that the husband's reaction to her false rape accusation was foreseeable. As far as I know all the shooters were excused, but I could have missed a followup story.