Should Anyone Be Offended by Ye? Live with Eli Lake
The rapper is undeniably brilliant. And outrageous. But how seriously should we take any artist's politics? A conversation with the host of The Re-Education.
Ye—better known as Kanye West—is one of the great artists at work in contemporary America. But as brilliant as he is in a recording studio or on a fashion runway, he's equally prone to making outrageous, often-cryptic political statements—not to mention weird threats to ex wife Kim Kardashian's former boyfriend Pete Davidson. He has very publicly struggled with mental health issues even as he continues to produce highly praised music and clothing.
In 2018, he suggested that 400 years of African American slavery "sounds like a choice," and just this week his declaration that he was about to go "death con 3 on JEWISH PEOPLE" led to his Twitter and Instagram accounts being locked. In a recent, wide-ranging interview with Fox News' Tucker Carlson, Ye was personable, loquacious, and engaging, even as he suggested the fat acceptance movement was a type of "genocide of the Black race" and defended wearing a "White Lives Matter" shirt at his latest fashion show. He also talked about ideological orthodoxy in the entertainment industry, saying that it "drove me crazy not to be able to say I liked Trump."
Is Ye a victim of a woke culture that he says attacks anyone "presenting new ideas?" Or is he the latest in a line of major artists—such as Picasso, T.S. Eliot, Alice Walker—whose personal lives or politics are beyond the pale? Should audiences separate artists from their art or should audiences dismiss them if they hold repellent views?
Reason's Nick Gillespie and Natalie Dowzicky discuss all this and more with Commentary and New York Sun columnist Eli Lake, host of the podcast The Re-Education and a Ye superfan.
Photo: Illustration: Lex Villena; Cosmopolitan UK, Gage Skidmore
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No
"No."
I was planning on a slightly more expanded answer to the question posed by the title of the article, but yeah, that pretty much covers it.
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Agreed.
I don't even think most people are actually offended. At least not the people you're hearing from. I think it's the information brokers clutching their pearls and emoting greatly, like Kabuki theater players acting out overwrought emotions for the back of the room.
That's what sensationalist media and powerful racists in academia do. Prescribe the dogma then act it out. Don't worry about your own self, our downtrodden little brothers. We'll be offended for you.
One can be offended without necessarily being surprised.
That depends on how you view the relationship between blacks and Jews.
Nothing Ye said is new.
I don't even see why what he said was so outrageous. If I'm interpreting his statement correctly, he was threatening to release a Twitter tirade at Jews.
I think they've survived greater catastrophes than that.
I agree ... or maybe not!? I don't know, according to the "officially permitted" narrative, Hitler between September 1939 and end of April 1945, managed to gas, cremate and completely dispose of, upwards 6 million of them, a feat which ...arithmetically equates to about 2 per minute. Interestingly enough until today there are "survivors" who received monthly reparations money from Germany (but also from other sources, i.e. Switzerland, Sweden, even the United States!) and more interesting is the fact that the state of Israel is still receiving reparations for jews killed by the Germans but had no heirs to bequeath their money. But the final chutzpa is that the total number of payees (all jews of course) is slowly but surely approaching that mythical number of 6 million. I think we should take our hats off to (((those))) somehow perpetually persecuted people who have perfected the art of making an extortion racket look like ... a donation!
Hi, Misek!
Fuck Off, Nazi!
It’s either Misek’s sock or his identical twin. If it’s the latter, we need to schedule an appointment with Dr Mengele stat!
I’m sure Mengele would have dreamed of twin Miseks! If he could replicate the process, it would mean an automatic doubling of the Jackbooted Legions at least every 9 months!
‘Course it would strip the Lebensraum bare trying to make Sauerkraut, Wienerschnitzel, and Strudel for that big a crowd!
But like every other Social Engineering scheme, they just mean so well! 🙂
Those “catastrophes” as you euphemistically call them (as if they were an earthquake or a flood or another unconscious phenomenon) are always preceded by the kind of venom espoused by the likes of Kanye…and believed by the likes of you…even though you claim to know nothing of Nazi philosophy and claim to think that a phrase with “death” in it is somehow not threatening!
Fuck Off, Witch-Burinng, Bullshitting Nazi!
I agree completely. Nothing he said is out of the ordinary for him.
Do people forget him stealing Taytay's mic?
Or going on TV to ask for donations after the hurricane and instead saying that George Bush hates black people?
This has been Ye for 20 years.
Again, not out of the ordinary for Ol' Thousand Mile Stare, but still disgusting.
After what J.P. Morgan just did, emphatic no is the answer.
Jp Morgan should cut all of their ties with Berkley, and all of the ivys too
Who's offended? He's an entertainer, and I'm being entertained. I'm waiting for the next installment with bated breath!
Kind of a lull in witch-burning to entertain you since Germany banned profiting from their forfeitured property in the early 1800s, huh? Not to mention that damned ol’ ban on Bills of Attainder and the First Amendment in the U.S. Constitution, right?
You’d have to go to Africa or India to slake your love of burning witch flesh, not very popular iteneraries for Aryan Pure Supermen.
Guess you’ll have to be an Incel Sadist like Milo and content yourself with the venom of washed up pop stars.
Toodles and Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!
You can be offended by anything you want, that does not give you the right to silence them, or punish them for saying things you find offensive.
The same is true for Alex Jones
Who has called for Kanye or Alex Jones to be fined, jailed, tortured, or killed for their delusions and hatreds?
Somebody's deprived a lot of cattle to make some Straw Armies.
love Kanye.
Is that a command or a swooning sweet nothing? 🙂
his declaration that he was about to go "death con 3 on JEWISH PEOPLE"
He's releasing an update of his Gold Digger video?
"when he get on he'll leave your ass for a Goldberg"
Goldberger?
He said white lives matter and abortion kills too many black babies. He needs to be canceled.
There was also the stuff about the Jews.
Why do you want to cancel American universities?
So many reasons.
And he was absolutely right about both. If you have a problem with that you can always see your psychiatrist
😉
Any shrink you'd recommend who gets less than two arm's length from me will get his calipers and brain scramblers straightened and shoved up his nose!
Fuck Off, Nazi!
I still don't get why "White lives Matter" is a controversial statement outside of certain organizations and talking heads telling me it just is.
Because they all agree with nick cannon who said there should be a white genicide
Please learn how to spell, do not just rely to your phone dictation; it makes you look like an illiterate m-0-R-o-N.
Then you and your shrink will have to take this "Untermenschen" and "get his mind right", huh?
I may not always agree with Rev. Kuckland, but he has more brains with bad spelling then you do even if you seamlessly spoke all the languages of Lou Reed's "Warrior King!"
Fuck Off, Nazi!
Eichmann called. He wants to hang out with you.
Maybe they'll go someplace where they can give an order.
Because skin color is the most important thing
It's controversial for the same reasons why 'Black Lives Matter' is controversial. It's about race, a perennial issue dividing Americans.
Did you come up with that one while rickshawing between Beijing and Xinxang?
Because it is a response to "black lives matter," which is short for "black lives should matter as much as white lives," which is a reference to the ignominious fact that white lives matter more than black lives in America.
If you're going to pretend to be naive about all this, why jump into the conversation with a t-shirt?
is not the 1900s anymore
So what you're saying is that all the black people protesting for better treatment in this society need to stop being so uppity and listen to you and a bunch of white dudes with podcasts who know better?
I kind of object to people using BLM to defraud people.
You be you though.
When you say these things, are you referring to anything specifically, or are the words enough?
I'm saying you and everyone else stoking racial hatred should try harder to be happy. There's no fucking racism anywhere except in your minds.
They’d probably be better off if they did. What has the grievance industry given them recently? Police reform? Nope. Reparations? Nope. Affirmative action? Whoop de do.
If you’re waiting for the government to make you happy, I hope you enjoy waiting.
Saying that black lives matter doesn't take anything away from the fact that white lives also matter. Saying white lives matter doesn't take anything away from the fact that black lives also matter.
Who is currently suggesting that black lives don't matter? No one, to my knowledge.
"Saying that black lives matter doesn’t take anything away from the fact that white lives also matter."
No, but people got upset anyway. It's race, and this is America, after all. White lives matter is a response by resentful people who were angered by the black lives matter slogan.
I’m sorry, but I care about real problems, like our oppressive federal government. Who told you to care about a black entertainer liking white people too much? Is twitter abuzz or something?
Nope! White lives do not matter more than other lives in the same way black lives do not matter more than anybody else’s life. Etc. Grow up, get over it and move on!
Hey, Tony! Since you love stirring pots, maybe you, Mtruman, Misek/Roadster, and Nemo could all form a WWII Da Big One Reinactment Group.
You and Mtruman could be the Proletarian Vanguards protecting Mother Russia and The Worker’s Paradise and Misek and Nemo could be the Aryan Warlords storming The Western Front after You Know Who Else two-timed People’s Champion Uncle Joe!
And maybe you all could use live ammo and vehicles too while the rest of us all make and take bets. Beats Time-Life Books any day!
Because it's a tone deaf response.
5 people have houses. Someone says "Steve's house matters" because it's on fire. Now sure, so does Bob's house but saying "Bob's house matters" or "All houses matter" really is ignoring the point that it's being said because one is on fire and the other isn't.
The chair of the 1/6 committee has announced that their predetermined conclusion is the conclusion that they have concluded is the conclusion. Conclusively.
Lamest October surprise ever.
I thought the hearings were concluded.
Far from it. They're planning to subpoena Trump.
Talk about entertainment....
I thought they were occluded from day 1.
You skipped over the part where they presented a bunch of video evidence.
Actually I skipped over everything that came after my soup and sandwich and return to the office.
Yeah I guess if you plug your ears and cover your eyes you can remain as ignorant as ever.
It's a tactic.
Normal people don’t care about 1/6. That’s so over.
Normal people are complete fucking idiots.
Maybe they'll care when the next coup actually succeeds. But by then it'll be too late.
You’re a fucking idiot.
What he does affect me how?
I keep waiting for Reason to make a statement... hell, even a Brickbat on the great COVID/Pfizer scandal currently making global news.
Oh, and by the by, there’s a new covid variant making the rounds that the press describes as ‘immune-evasive’.
XBB.1
But a paper mask will save you.
It gained some function did it?
But how seriously should we take any artist's politics?
Especially the black ones, amirite?
Because we didn't have 400 years of slavery!! Even if it started in 1619, it was abolished about 246 years later in 1865. So yes, if you are still claiming there was still involuntary slavery after that, you are wrong.
His use of "Death Con 3" [sic] seems to me a threat of violence against Jews. Not a true threat under the law, but stronger than mere hatred. I will not ask an employer to fire Kanye or a platform he's on to silence him, but I will not consume his work again.
His use of "Death Con 3" seems to me more akin to "aks [sic] me no questions".
*** rolls eyes ***
I was offended by his threat to go def con 3 against the Jews. I saw people react against it and quote it in my Twitter feed. I didn't know about any of his other comments, because I don't follow him.
You're not missing a thing. Kanye needs to have been selling pencils from a cup a long time ago.
“Should audiences separate artists from their art or should audiences dismiss them if they hold repellent views?”
Both. Love the art, hate the artist.
Why should people cut themselves off from great art simply because the artist himself isn’t worthy of his own work?
I don't know if the artist formerly known as Kanye West is any good, so the above may not apply to him.
If I thought he was doing it on purpose, I might applaud being able to piss that many people off at once. But I think he's a wackadoo. So no, I just ignore him.
Who gives a shit? Is this a slow news day?
” … Should audiences separate artists from their art or should audiences dismiss them if they hold repellent views? …”
With all due respect this is a stupid question: First because, it’s not of any material interest whether audiences separate artists from their art, and quite frankly there’s no legitimate way to measure that. Second because, who is going to and by what gauge, declare one’s view repellent while the other acceptable. The very essence of free speech is: You have the right to be offended. If someone calls you out about anything and you feel you’ve been wrong there are ways to defend yourself or simply …get back at them. So, stop writing useless/nonsense articles that offer zero meaningful insight to our everyday ongoing problems, such as how to deal with our oppressive government as someone correctly said earlier, and try to be more helpful and above all productive in what you do. There is a revolution coming and it will be very bloody; but there is still time to avoid it; can you help, or you’re making your salary from the usual media bosses by stoking the fire ?!
With all due respect this is a stupid question: First because, it’s not of any material interest whether audiences separate artists from their art, and quite frankly there’s no legitimate way to measure that.
Uh, yes there is a measure. You could ask the audience. But of course, free inquiry is not a stong suit with your ilk.
Second because, who is going to and by what gauge, declare one’s view repellent while the other acceptable.
Uh, people with rational minds do this all the time. It’s called judgement, something that goose-steppers don’t tend to exercise.
"Here Come Da Judge! Here Come Da Judge!"
https://youtu.be/iMJOdLZaKE0
The very essence of free speech is: You have the right to be offended. If someone calls you out about anything and you feel you’ve been wrong there are ways to defend yourself or simply …get back at them.
What do think people like myself, Utkanos, and others do whenever people like you post Nazi drivel?
So, stop writing useless/nonsense articles that offer zero meaningful insight to our everyday ongoing problems, such as how to deal with our oppressive government as someone correctly said earlier,
I’m taking a stance against a would-be oppressor right now.
and try to be more helpful and above all productive in what you do.
Oh, Nazis love the “helpful” and “productive,” as long as everyone else proposes and the Nazis are the ones who dispose.
There is a revolution coming and it will be very bloody; but there is still time to avoid it; can you help, or you’re making your salary from the usual media bosses by stoking the fire ?!
So you’re wanting your own “Death Con 3,” huh? Well, the U.S. has more guns than people, so Beer Hall Putsch 2.0 might not end so well for Putsch-ers and Sons-Of Putsch-ers if they want to go beyond mere hate rants.
Oh, and, as always, Fuck Off, Nazi!
Oh but, much like his bff Hermann Göring, he’s actually quite skilled at separating artists from their art….
And separating artists plus a whole lot of other people from life. Talk about art imitating life and life imitating art!