How Closed Borders Helped Facilitate the Holocaust
A new PBS series by Ken Burns argues xenophobia, the Great Depression, incredulity toward the media, and State Department antisemitism combined to keep Jewish refugees out of America.
HD DownloadTwo-thirds of European Jews were killed by the Nazis during World War II in a systematic, relentless process that still exceeds our ability to comprehend its origins and consequences. The Final Solution, which was the Nazi plan to exterminate all European Jews, wasn't implemented until 1942, but Hitler's government had begun openly dehumanizing, harassing, and attacking Jews upon taking power nine years earlier.
Even when the Nazi death machine kicked into high gear, America kept its doors mostly closed to Jews, as filmmakers Ken Burns, Lynn Novick, and Sarah Botstein recount in The U.S. and the Holocaust, a new three-part documentary series on PBS.
Some lobbied to open the country to refugees in the run-up to war, but anti-immigration legislation, the economic devastation of the Depression, incredulity toward a press that had trafficked in false atrocity accounts during World War I, and deep-seated antisemitism, especially in Franklin Roosevelt's State Department, combined to thwart those efforts.
Reason talked with Burns and Novick about why a nation of immigrants remains so deeply ambivalent about newcomers and the lessons that 21st-century America should draw from our country's response in the lead-up to the Holocaust.
Photo Credits: Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-R69919 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 DE, via Wikimedia Commons; Bookofblue, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons; China Crisis, CC BY 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons; Grillo assumed (based on copyright claims)., CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons; Prelinger Archives; Newspapers; Internet Archive: Takkk, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons; The U.S. and the Holocaust / Florentine Films and WETA.
Music Credits: "Emanuele Errante," by Altered Communications via Artlist.io
Interview by Nick Gillespie. Video editing by Regan Taylor and Adam Czarnecki.
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No offense, libertarians, but you either want us to solve the world's problems or you do not. Stop straddling the middle ground.
"Do not get involved...but pay through the nose to mitigate all of the negative repurcussions for this problem" is not a viable option.
Maybe if you want to lecture Libertarians about moral choices, you could go somewhere other than REASON.
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Trot that bogeyman story out to scare the bigoted fuckwits for whom not a shred of physical evidence is necessary. Textbook propaganda.
Me, I like feeding bleating trolls what they can’t refute and laughing at them as they choke.
The following points refute key elements of the holocaust with logic and science. This is because all stories creating the holocaust narrative defy logic and science.
There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence. Any activity that demonstrates and shares evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.
The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.
Jews wrote books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens.
But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it years later.
And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.
Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.
The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.
The story is told by one Jewish
survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.
She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad. The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.
They were stripped naked to leave no evidence. Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.
Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence. Oops, rookie move. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them on gravestones and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.
There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.
There are military aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.
Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school
Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines? It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.
Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support the holocaust narrative of which there was also no mention of.
Are you willingly performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their top secret enigma machines?
The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.
The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps. It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.
Are you performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe that the Red Cross were so incompetent that they were completely unaware of 95% or 5,629,000 deaths?
Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save lives by preventing deadly typhus. The system used for years before the war employed heating to release cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle.
Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings with clothing racks still exist in Prison camps. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred. In fact, the story has changed to that they just threw the heat activated pellets onto the cold drainless floors in rooms full of people.
Such an inefficient method would have taken too long to kill the required number of Jews. The pellets couldn’t be spread evenly in rooms full of people. The cold drainless floors would have delayed the release of cyanide from the pellets that people would have swept away from themselves. Any dead would have released all their bodily fluids and their bodies covering the pellets. Vomit would have been added to the floor prior to entering such a room.
According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.
Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel. Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours. Far too long to support the narrative.
If Germans had used gas engines, death would have been in a few minutes. But in the holocaust narrative for treblinka diesel was used even though they had plenty of gas for their tanks. Nuremberg still recorded that they were “steam chambers”.
Which stupid lie is more believable? You have to perform some feeble mental gymnastics to buy that.
Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945. Only to coerce sympathy to raise money. Like the wastes of skin who fake cancer on go fund me pages.
The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russia because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany to drive Germany to war.
There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the “gassing Jews“ propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.
The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.
These Jewish leaders are admitting it. Are they lying?
“We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.
“The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”
Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.
The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.
I'm curious, what is the upshot of Holocaust denialism? Is it to restore the good name of the Nazis? To warn us to get those deceitful Jews before they get us first?
You Nazi assholes are batting 0 to 0 with this copypasta bullshit that has already been addressed? Does it take a lot of Aryan Pure Superman brain cells to do that?
Fuck Off, Nazi!
Solving the word's problems is simple, prohibit government from initiating force.
Ha. Problem is, a lot of people out there desire strong governments.
Aren't you the one who said you had no sympathy for the Jews after some were coercively built V-2 Rockets that hit England? Even though the Jews were clearly coerced and the first V-2s were defective and blew up on the landing pad?
Go review the NAP/NIFF and get back with us on that.
"Don't block the fire exit from the outside." is not "getting involved. "Don't violate the rights of those persons to relocate and settle in the U.S.A.: is not "getting involved."
Hate to break it to you, but there is precisely zero rights to relocate and settle in the USA.
There is a right to try. And if refugee outsiders are peaceful, honest, not carrying deadly communicable diseases spread by casual contact, and are either self-supporting or voluntarily sponsored, I see no reason for keeping them out.
And if any Hans-Hermann Hop-Heads have a problem with it, then they can practice what they preach, "physically remove" themselves, and Get The Fuck Out.
From the Librtarian Party Platform = Immigration
We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual preference.
Holy Shit. This is a real article.
Dunno. I only come here for the comments.
Ken Burns is a bigoted, racist Donkey. But that’s redundant.
Ken Burns, nuff said. Gillespie seems to be missing the mark on 60% of the pieces he writes lately.
Misek says it never happened.
Most of the Trumpistas on this forum say the same thing is happening here in America except instead of Jews its conservatives who are being rounded up and sent to camps. Am I exaggerating? A little. But not much.
Poor sarc.
You mean poor persecuted conservatives. They're so sad.
At least they weren’t homeless.
Unlike you….
Even been camping? It's like that. But not on purpose. Great learning experience. Really makes you appreciate the little things that you take for granted, like having your own refrigerator. Or a couple grand liquid for emergencies.
It just amazes me youre such an asshole in real life nobody let you bunk up for a few months. Not shocked you had no savings.
Next sarc tells us how great of a learning experience it was losing his family.
Are they happy fun camps like the ones you defended in Australia?
Mainstream journolisming vs some Trumpy commenters on Reason:
I believe black Americans face a genocide. Here's why I choose that word
The ruling caste views blacks as blacks view their pitbulls
You mean the way the 25-Point Nazi Party Platform views you and every other German and Non-German alike?
Remember, their motto was: "The Common Good Over The Individual Good."
Now enjoy your kibble, Siegfried!
Idiots abound. What's your point?
There is always at least one wherever you go. Probably makes it seem like a lot.
He won’t get it.
Probably not.
Ten stages of genocide. We are at stage 8. Persecution.
Politically targeted warrants, raids, and arrests is persecution. Take a step outside your biases and really look at the current situation. We've seen this before, dozens of times.
When people are targeted for being conservative, as opposed to doing stupid shit while also being conservative, then you might have a valid point. I'm sorry but "They did stupid shit but they didn't get punished because they're not conservatives, which means we're only in trouble because we're conservatives not because of the stupid shit we did" argument sounds like a bunch of whining to me.
Stupid stuff like having a non government approved opinion.
How are you being persecuted for a non government approved opinion. Did something on Facebook get deleted? Did your favorite news outlet fail to do a story on something you think is important?
Getting raided by the FBI for wrongthink, isn’t persecution according to sarc.
You've been raided? When?
So you assertion is nobody is raided by the FBI. Don't tell people like PV or the random conservatives reported by their neighbors. Ignore the J6 protestors who committed no violence. Ignore the IRS leaks of conservative donors.
Basically just be a leftist shit and roll around in ignorance.
Yes. The J6 committee targeting people not involved with J6 is just a lie. Keep defending political attacks buddy. I can give you many examples. But we know you prefer to remain ignorant.
I knew you'd justify all of it. History repeats.
The Red Speech wasn't about J6 rioters...it was directly aimed at trump supporters, and republicans specifically.
It was also criticized by his own team and has been backtracked on more than a few levels. Even NPR said he went too far.
That's not justifying anything. Just pointing out that the speech wasn't very rousing. Didn't connect. These political enemies of yours, the people those who want a civil war want to kill, aren't that into it.
Defend and deflect.
Umm hmm, sure. The Republican voting base is about the same size as the Democratic voting base. The President is from the Republican Party about 50% of the time. We're not sure who is going to control Congress after the next election. About half the states are red, and about half are blue.
So, what is different. Republicans have really learned to whine and play the victims in the past ten years or so.
I've been digging into the archives of The Political Orphanage and I'm currently listening to an interview with George Will. I like him. He described the-president-who-shall-not-be-named, the role model for his party, as "the crybaby in chief." So apt.
Note how he doesn't dispute discrimination and weaponization of government against opponents of leftism. His only assertion that those being targeted should simply accept it.
May he get what he wishes on his enemies.
Weaponization? You mean when your hero Alex Jones got hauled into court?
Who is being targeted simply because of their beliefs? That's what I thought. You read like a whining child pissed about getting busted for something their sibling gets away with.
Left wingers have weaponized government ever since their march through out institutions began. Capturing taxpayer resources ostensibly for common interests and redirecting them to support left wing activists is the primary tactic of the left so its not surprising sarc defends it. After all he supports any attack on the non-left.
https://thestarnewsnetwork.com/2022/08/31/project-veritas-connecticut-assistant-principal-shares-how-he-rejects-hiring-catholics-and-conservatives-to-allow-subtle-child-indoctrination/
The tactic has been so completely successful at the university level leftists outnumber the right 30 to 1 or more. With their growth thus limited they are now taking over the k-12 institutions (link above) and moving into the business world (as James Damore discovered). Revealingly sarc defends this practice by trying to convince those who don't pay attention that it isn't actually happening.
You read like a whining child
Show us on the doll where the conservative touched you.
Get back to me when you've got an example of "discrimination and weaponization of government against opponents of leftism."
That's what you were whining about, right. Comparing Facebook to the Stasi and all that.
You can't be this dumb. A year in solitary for non violent acts. Selective leaks by the IRS for conservative groups. Project Veritas being raided over a diary. General Flynn. The entire Russian Hoax and special counsel. J6 committee going after dozens of conservatives not even a part of J6. Democrats working with silicon valley to censor viewpoints. The Resistance and deep state.
I can go on and on. But you're such a leftist defending shit weasel at this point.
Get back to me when you've got an example of "discrimination and weaponization of government against opponents of leftism."
I've already provided it. Using control of government institutions to illegitimately discriminate against non-leftists. Your continued pretense it doesn't exist simply proves you support it. Your Sgt Shultzing doesn't change reality.
You act like we're a month away from people being hauled out of their homes for what was overheard at the dinner table.
Sure the left runs the institutions. That's what they do. Duh. Water is wet. Got any more epiphanies?
But that's not people being targeted for wrongthink. You guys are more dramatic than teenage girls.
As long as the government isn't venezuela, it is fine. Right sarc?
As opposed to Jesse = "Everything Team Blue does is equivalent to Venezuela"
You act like we're a month away from people being hauled out of their homes for what was overheard at the dinner table.
We're years past people not getting hired for what was overheard in the dorms. Sarc is fine with that so he tries to set the standard higher. He believes it's illegitimate for anyone to oppose leftists before it's too late to oppose leftists.
Where you been Lying Jeffy? Off on an adventure to the Amazon looking for a lie to get me with or something? Nice to see you back projecting about others being on teams by always attacking one team while defending the other team. I didn’t know fifty centers got paid vacations, but good for you.
Hey, just curious, why do you like to lie about Joe Rogan so much?
Defend this shit weasel.
NEWS & POLITICS
FBI: 'He Was on Our Radar.' No, YOU Are on Their Radar.
BY KEVIN DOWNEY JR. 2:49 PM ON SEPTEMBER 15, 2022
AP Photo/Patrick Semansky
It seems like every time a lunatic blazes up a classroom or a shopping mall, the FBI tells us, “He was on our radar.” Yet somehow, the shooter wasn’t stopped. Do you know who was stopped? The “My Pillow” guy, Mike Lindell.
The FBI apparently knew exactly where he was, and three of their cars pinned Lindell in at a Hardee’s drive-thru restaurant and took his phone. Do they watch the mass shooters “on their radar” this closely or just friends of President Trump?
The feds are passing out warrants and subpoenas to Trump’s associates and followers like those nasty circus peanuts you give to the neighborhood kids you don’t like on Halloween. It’s happening all over the country.
But the tyranny doesn’t stop there, my friends. As our own Matt Margolis wrote, the FBI buddied up with Facebook to spy on you:
According to Department of Justice sources, Facebook has been spying on the private messages and data of Americans who questioned the 2020 election results and reporting them to the FBI.
.
Since the election, Facebook has worked in conjunction with the FBI to report on “subversive” private messages, sending them to the FBI’s domestic terrorism operational unit, supposedly in redacted form, a direct violation of Americans’ First and Fourth Amendment rights.
.
“It was done outside the legal process and without probable cause,” one of the sources told the New York Post. “Facebook provides the FBI with private conversations which are protected by the First Amendment without any subpoena.”
The feds are probably worried lindell will deplete the nation's supply of aluminum making himself special hats. All kidding aside, he's a doofus, and this really does demonstrate the political bias within the federal agencies. If the manpower needed to surveil him and then take his phone was available, then actual crimes can be stopped.
Trump is putting kids in concentration camps on the border.
That's exaggeration.
"Am I exaggerating?"
Extremely so. Sure beats that whole "They are taking rioters off the street in unmarked vans" bullshit from 2020.
Are you dumb?*
Surely you can see that people compare the treatment of conservatives to that of Jews in Deutschland, they mean the "disparagement, demonization and dehumanizing" phase. You know, the run-up TO the boxcars and the camps. This is that famous devious lefty technique that combines gaslighting and strawmanning, isn't it?.
*-A.) He's lying, but he's stupid too!!
People are in jail for trespassing. So, yes, conservatives are being targeted.
You ought to take a more even handed approach if you want to have credibility.
It's quite impressive how Koch-funded libertarians find new and exciting ways to promote our billionaire benefactor Charles Koch's demand for cost-effective imported labor. A few years ago I wondered if this form of open borders advocacy peaked with Shikha Dalmia's magnum opus linking supporters of "border enforcement" to slaveowners. But linking them to Nazi death camp guards who murdered millions is equally compelling. 🙂
#OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch
#CheapLaborAboveAll
Related!
Reason.com benefactor Charles Koch's net worth change during the last full year (2020) with a President who insisted on enforcing a border: minus $5.17 billion
Reason.com benefactor Charles Koch's net worth change so far in 2022 with a President who explicitly refuses to enforce a border: plus $4.28 billion
#NumbersDontLie
OMG! He’s still a billion behind!
Better start a go fund me.
In the interest of brevity I omitted the fact that Mr. Koch also gained over $4 billion in Biden's first year (2021). It's safe to say he's fully recovered from the draconian anti-billionaire polices of the Drumpf Era.
#BillionairesForBiden
Whew!
*wipes forehead with back of hand*
I'll just say that this is Buttplug level of using (abusing) 2020 numbers.
I take that as a compliment.
Mr. Buttplug has convincingly argued that 2020's abysmal economic performance was 100% Drumpf's fault — and that the pandemic and lockdowns provided a weak excuse for GDP decline that was going to happen anyway.
#LiberalCapitalism101
OBL, that is some of the dumbest shit I have read in a long time.
And the Democrats in congress have raised the minimum wage by 0.00 fedbucks per hour!
Yes, let’s congratulate them for doing something right when we see it.
Sooo...Siefried Wolsing, Geiger Goldestadt, Rob Misek, and Hans Hermann-Hoppe.
Sounds like ya'll ain't from aroind here, are ya, boys? 🙂
Prima Facie, Ipso Facto, A Priori, before Misek or any other Holocaust Deniers even shows up...
Fuck Off, Nazi!
FWIW my mother and her parents managed to get US immigrant visas but couldn't get direct transport from Italy (where they were staying after they'd fled Germany) so they decided to try to get to the UK and from there to the US. They asked the UK consulate in Naples for tourist or transit visas. When the consulate said, "how do we know you won't just stay in Britain?" my grandfather responded, "why would we stay in Britain when we have US visas?" They got the British visas, and arrived in Britain...on 9/3/39. No ships to the US, and so they stayed in Britain after all.
Your word is worth nothing
"So they stayed in Britain after all." Looks like we dodged a bullet there. Damn country's overrun with wops as it is.
I don't think Polish/Ukrainian Jews are wops.
They're Jew-Wops! The worst kind. And they made that awful Jew-Wop music that was so popular in the 50s...
Jew-wop jew-wop
Be my bay-beee
Jew-wop jew-wop
oooh-ooh-ooh
Jew-wop jew-wop
don't say maybe
wop! ooo-000-OOO-oooo!
like that
And don't forget songs that refer to the new Jewish experience of changing our names, e.g.,
"Well now they often call me Speedoo
But my real name is Mister Spiegelman"
Why were you defending nazi gun laws then?
I wasn't.
So you're saying in Democrat administrations, nothing has changed. The media still traffics in false stories, Democrats are still racist and anti-semitic and prone to creating economic devestation. Good to know what good governance looks like to you, also what you're capable of actually learning
Closed borders helped make the holocaust a realty? Well, then we should allow more people in. In fact, we should HELP them out by spreading out the immigrants as much as possible, you know to help stop the holocaust from happening again.
Oh wait, doing that is also similar to the holocaust. https://www.thewrap.com/ken-burns-compares-desantis-migrants-holocaust-cnn-video/
I guess there just isn't any winning this.
Pretty sure Germany crossed borders just fine. So did Russia.
Seriously. Why are lefties so terrified of brown people?
https://thefederalist.com/2022/09/15/left-wingers-melt-down-over-diversity-brought-to-marthas-vineyard-as-migrant-sanctuary/
Sending individuals who have illegally crossed our borders to one of the wealthiest sanctuary cities on the planet is indeed strikingly similar to sending trainloads of citizens to certain death and starvation in concentration camps. Why can't you see that?
Martha’s Vineyard is a stinking shithole where racists go to avoid the common scum. See Obama, Barack and Michelle.
Did you just fucking Godwin's Law immigration????
You know who else Godwin's Lawed open borders and immigration?
Sikha at least 47 times
>secure borders contributed to the six Holocaust
You aren't helping the open borders argument as much as you think you are.
why a nation of immigrants remains so deeply ambivalent about newcomers
Maybe because free association demands that xenophobia is, in fact, just as valid an opinion as "all are welcome"?
Maybe because there exists no obligation of previous immigrants to extend what they got to others?
Maybe because open borders is truly a fringe belief?
You'd think a libertarian rag would think about these things.
My ancestors weren't immigrants, they were settlers. If you insist on referring to them as "immigrants", perhaps you can tell us what country they immigrated to? Given that at the time there was no USA, that might be a bit of a challenge.
Also would point out that when a British citizen moves to a British colony, he hasn't "immigrated" anywhere. He's still in Britain.
America is a nation of conquerors
America is a nation of conquerors living in a world of conquerors.
Every nation is a nation of conquerors. There is not a nation on this planet whose jurisdiction was not obtained by forcefully usurping it from another. And in pretty much every case, the losing jurisdiction had taken it from others who had taken it from yet others, and so on.
Yes, and the “nation of immigrants” and “huddled masses” schlock elides this fundamental truth.
When the original people came to N America over the Bering Strait there were no humans for them to conquer.
I don't insist on referring to all crossers as immigrants. I'm throwing their own words back at them.
"Maybe because there exists no obligation of previous immigrants to extend what they got to others?"
Never mind that extending to other what you would yourself like to receive is the basis of all ethics.
Show your receipts weasel
It’s really rotten for an immigrant to bend over backward to escape the dysfunction in their own country and associate with a new country only to be called xenophobic dipshits for not wanting open borders that allow the worst of what they were attempting to disassociate with to come and go as they please.
There is a right to free association and representative immigration control is how the nation, as a whole, chooses who to associate with.
Property rights.
Would really love to see Gillespie's face if Gov. DeSantis decides to drop a few busloads of immigrants in front of his house. Holocaust, my ass.
I know somebody who needs to stay off my lawn who's probably been here all of his life.
Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!
Witch burning is underrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvggevL_1OE
I thought it was going to be the Witch-burning scene from Monty Python and The Holy Grail. Those guys had your illogic and irrationality pegged to a T. 🙂
Instead, you have to repeat your elementary school-level insults from a guy named Dave RUDOLPH! I guess that's about the speed of juvenile Nazi bullies who posture as Aryan Pure Supermen! 🙂
Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!
If South American refugees are facing extermination from their governments, then perhaps we might deal with that.
For what it's worth, I think what FDR did to those Jewish refugees on that ship was damn near a war crime... but what's never explored is the fact that... how many countries were their in the world at that time... the [insert number of other countries in the world] didn't take them either is definitely something worth exploring.
Perhaps the reason FDR was reluctant to take them was because we didn't have a comprehensive medical welfare state. "Next year" was possibly what he was thinking.
Canada was worse.
The old TV movie about that travesty is available on YouTube
https://youtu.be/y1RxVTBWKrw
Voyage of the Damned. Awesome cast!!
Maybe FDR was afraid he’d have to lock them in camps like he did the Japanese.
The monument to FDR on the Mall is a disgrace and it should be defaced daily until it is removed.
It’s not enought that we spend trillions subsidizing the world’s sole permissible ethnostate. We must also surrender any claim of national sovereignty to ensure the Chosen Ones are able to come and go at will.
It’s almost like the last seven decades of western foreign and domestic policy have disproportionately benefited a small and influential group…
Jews were mistreated by the FDR administration during WWII and the holocaust, and *turns page* this rather reminds me of the DNC offering free healthcare to the World and then wondering why the southern border is slammed.
And yet they still convinced FDR to sacrifice 407k whites for their war.
Misek, is that you?
Nah, I’m just semi-Misek
Tojo and Hirohito were Jewish? They sure didn't look it.
It's not called Jewpan for nothing.
GROAN Let’s nip this in the bud quick fast!!
Yep! Say "Sayanora!" to that spilling of guts!
A must addition to all Reason columns on immigration:
"We know they are lying. They know they are lying, They know that we know they are lying. We know that they know that we know they are lying. And still they continue to lie."
—Alexander Solschenizyn
The man had some spicier takes than he is usually credited for.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/25/russia.books
One reason he isn't credited with spicier takes is that the book in question has never been translated into English, for reasons that will be left as an exercise to the reader.
There were Jewish collaborators?
Of course, there were collaborators of all types. Humans are weak, and will often go with the flow to avoid problems. Some will take the lead.
Just look at our media, NYT, university admins, even industry who bow to CRT, antifa, BLM, LGBTQABCDEFG, and other bullies.
That quote becomes more relevant with every passing day.
Oh, and I know that this is not really on-topic or topic-related, but turning the scope towards WWI, despite what open borders advocates will tell you, it was globalism that caused WWI, not "closed borders".
I don't think you can call the patchwork of restrictionist, protectionist, mutual defense, cats paw, proxy bullshit treaties anything close to "Globalist".
It's what 'globalist' inevitably looks like, as opposed to the ultimate centralized state that globalists actually want.
It turns out that a planet-wide micromanaging nanny state is actually kind of hard to manage, so they rig it with a 'patchwork of restrictionist, protectionist, mutual defense, cats paw, proxy bullshit treaties'.
Here's a pretty good summation of what caused WWI. The "nationalism" (which I'm using as a facsimile for "closed/zenophobic borders" didn't "cause wwi".
Short version:
Mutual protection pacts.
A bunch of interconnected countries (ie, governments)
Russia with serbia
Germany with Austria
Ottomans with Austria and Germany
Italy with England
etc. etc.
Those are the agreements. Look at who they were against. That’s what causes people to fight. A lot of bigotry underneath.
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well.
...? I find that highly implausible. Proof definitely required.
There was a huge push for globalism pre ww1 which many countries bouht into. Gilespe wrote an article about how the 1910s was the leading decade for global immigration and trade.
Seemed it was Imperialism that caused the war. Four empires vanished at the end.
""Some lobbied to open the country to refugees in the run-up to war, but anti-immigration legislation, the economic devastation of the Depression, incredulity toward a press that had trafficked in false atrocity accounts during World War I, and deep-seated antisemitism, especially in Franklin Roosevelt's State Department, combined to thwart those efforts.""
Well if FDR didn't want it, is that a good thing? He was the best president ever so I've been told.
No, it was the people around FDR who tricked him into bad policies. If only he'd known he'd have done something about the problem.
LOL, so would Joe Stalin, if he'd just known how badly the kulaks were being treated and been told of the famine (Holodomor).
Don't forget Mao. He would have stepped in if he had known.
He only read the NYT. Seemed to be working out pretty well.
So we should inter the japs. Okay problem solved
A couple of observations to make:
Mr. Gillespie must have owed the website an article for today and found himself completely out of good ideas. If national borders "facilitated" the Holocaust, should not the universities that trained the chemists that made Zyklon B also be considered as facilitators? What about the chemists' parents? What about the truck drivers who delivered it; in fact why not manufacturers of the trucks that did the hauling and the vendors who provided the raw materials for the manufacture of Zyklon B? When you start chasing "facilitators" it just means you need somebody to blame to signal your virtue and you're out of reasonable "suspects", or perhaps you're using pseudo-logic in attempt to advance an agenda you are concealing. While we're at it, some tell me how far the chain of responsibility for "facilitating" can go back, i.e., how many generations back from the actual perpetrators?
Reason started of as a forum for libertarian thought, but somewhere it was captured and metaphorically imprisoned andvbforced to flack Republicans/conservatives and be a flack sheet for Democrats and guilty liberals.
You are still guilty for slavery. So cough up those reparations!!
Wow...what an argument: If you think the nation has a right to control its borders, you support Hitler.
OTOH, if Germany had controlled it's border with Austria, Hitler would have died frustrated in a country with about as much military might as Italt.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/09/trump-republicans-incitement-violence-threats-stochastic-terrorism/
Here's interesting commentary to compare to Gillespie's. According to Mother Jones Trump incited violence by vilifying those he disagrees with because this could lead to violence, and current Reps are following that.
From the article:
experts call “stochastic terrorism,” whereby a leader vilifies a person or group in ways likely to instigate random supporters to attack those targets, while the instigator maintains a veneer of plausible deniability. Trump made this form of incitement a hallmark of his presidency, galvanizing extremists by railing against and dehumanizing his “enemies.”
Meanwhile the left, including many who call themselves libertarian, has called any deviation from their preferences racist for decades. Biden himself said Republicans want to return black Americans to slavery, before upping himself to claim they are fascists. The fascism charge mirrors academic and media accusations going back decades. Today Gillespie links opposing illegal immigration to Nazis mirroring Biden's upgrade from racist to fascist. (You have to wonder if a general alert went out or if they just know to take their lead from Biden).
Will this accusation be leveled at leftists who use their institutional control coordinate their message of hate and pair it with employment and other discrimination such as deplatforming? Where does Gillespie come down on demonizing people? Will politicians who supported rhetoric which led to James Hogdgekiss, attempted murders, the BLM inspired murders of 5 LEOs in Dallas, or the many murders which occurred during BLM riots (and attempted murder of Rittenhouse) be held responsible for these acts?
Or course not, because while the left has been engaging in demonizing their enemies for decades along with openly justifying violence (By Any Means Necessary) the left is never judged. But the second someone on the right adopts their tactics they transform into a Danger to the Republic.
So can we blame the shooting that nearly took out the Republican baseball game on AOC? Asking for a friend...
If anything, Republican 'assassins' trying to take out the Democrats have really nothing going on for them at all, whereas the Democrat 'assassins' trying to take out Republicans have almost succeeded at least once.
If anything, Republican 'assassins' trying to take out the Democrats have really nothing going on for them
That may be a matter of relative competence. No Democratic supporter has tried to take out the entire GOP leadership.
Not completely wrong.
Antifa, the military wing of the Democrat party, is a highly organized and effective force. The unruly mob who attacked the Capitol were unarmed and had no plan.
The Heffalump activists need to step up their game if they are not going to be eliminated.
The nation of immigrants silliness is way over done and stupid on its face.
Many Americans could trace their ancestry back many years in this country until LBJ destroyed this country with unbridled third world immigration. Those people have not assimilated and are the cause of the downfall of this country.
We have become an idiocrasy.
Wonder what that R stands for that you don’t want to share: Reardan? Rosen? Rodriguez?
I really don't understand how anyone with sincere brains and eyes, libertarian or not, can possibly say that open borders or a facsimile thereof is a good thing with today's reality. The sheer footage of our border towns in the US - this is real, not made up - and all the misery it shows should be all the fucking evidence you need to see it is not at all good.
Those defending or supporting the open borders we have today are either fucking idiots, making a buck off of it (Ken Burns, with his tortured simile, for example) or enjoying the chaos that is not in their yard (Democrats, apparently). Libertarians should know better. It's important to remember that, sometimes, a high minded principle does not carry into reality - and there should be no shame in admitting that, Reason Staff.
The USA does not have Open Borders, voter. The USA will never have Open Borders because you liberals love taxing imports too much in order to keep America's Standard of Living low enough that we have to depend on Mommy government for part of our sustenance
A new idiot emerges!
US entry into WWII helped facilitate the Holocaust. FDR's guarantee of support to Chamberlain might as well have been a knife to the throat of every Polish Jew.
Bottom line: Liberals do not care about human life, not even Jewish lives which they appear to value above others. They only care about power
Chamberlain stepped down in May 1940.
Meanwhile, explain your reasoning. You're obviously unaware that the Nazis didn't look at killing Jews as part of WWII but as a necessary though parallel activity. There's a reason that even as the war was being lost on the front lines, the Nazis were still devoting resources to, e.g., the deportation and mass murder of Hungarian and French Jews.
If the Americans hadn't entered the war, the Nazis would just have killed more of us, and earlier.
It's a very shitty thing, to feel you have to lie about history just to score cheap political points on an anonymous forum.
And, yet here you are, supporting fascists and Nazis again, having learned nothing from history.
Did you just ****ing attempt to godwin us?! JFC
There are clearly a few issues Reason feels strongly about, it's just really interesting how every one seems to align perfectly with elite and progressive orthodoxy of the day. hmmm
Good god, you're grasping at straws. Disgusting.
To document what the U.S.A. public was told, I set up a website at https://the-holocaust.info
You know what was a greater effect? Being jailed for political opposition.
Just dumb as crap.
That, and the 3rd Reich policy of exterminating the Jewish people. Burns is reaching, because it is in activists' nature to tie everything to their pet grievance.
Ken Burns lost all credibility to me when he claimed Donald Trump called for the Central Park 5 to be executed. He did not even call for ANY rapists to be executed let alone these rapists. And yes they're rapists.
It is reasonable to expect a country to let in 0.1 % to 1 % of it's population each year as new immigrants. The USA already does this.
The USA didn't open it's immigration policy until the 1960's. Jews kicked out of Arab countries couldn't come to the USA. Israel welcomed them.
The US Border are not close, you just need to cross them legally. That should not be a problem or a comparison with the Holocaust. I Germany the border was closed for Jews getting out, which is not the same as the US, were anyone that wants to leave can go.
No, Nazi Germany tried to drive the Jews out for more than six years, while the USA, the UK, and other nations kept sending Jewish immigrants back to Germany. No plans were made for extermination until it became clear that WWII had made it impossible for the Jews to leave.
This is straight out of a Remy rap. Why is it that the comedy videos are the most prescient and insightful products of this web site?
This is almost as ignorant as SRG claiming the Nazis weren't gun control and him linking to the nazi policies that disallowed jews to have weapons.
This guy gets it
So what'cha gonna do? Use your calipers? Better get some big orderlies to do the job.
I didn't solicit your psychoanalysis, so don't expect payment. Chalk that billable hour as a loss.
Luckily, we have planned parenthood to slow the growth of that demographic in particular.
/sarc
And all that while also saying Jews in particular are a pretty scummy bunch and should give all their land to the group of people launching rockets into their suburbs, and everyone should refuse to do business with Jews.
Seems legit. I see no issues with believing both those things at the same time...
The Weimar Republic had strict gun control for everyone. The Nazis loosened it for whites.
So you ignored the important part of my most. On who they added restrictions. You know the ones they wanted to oppress.
What is this apologist shit coming from some of you.
Ackshuyally, The Third Reich even discouraged "Aryan" Germans from private gun ownership, telling them that if they wish to keep and bear arms, they should join The Military, The Gestapo, or the SS.
Everytjing in the Nazi State was supposed to be fkr the benefit of Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer." But, of course, you should know this.
My ancestors did the conquering. I do what I can to defend their legacy.
His Act Blue application.
The thing that amuses me is that all these groups are so damn racist, yet only white people ever get called on it.
Which is more than a little perverse since the politicians are usually white, so this really is a white savior narrative.
I think Malcolm X actually called this one a pretty long time ago now.
Agreed, but what does this analysis imply about the normie “right” and its fantasises of racial harmony?
The fuck do they have to do that? They say vote for me and I give you free money
It’s telling that you assume I am using the word “conqueror” as a pejorative. I am as far from the Act Blue set as it gets.
Just setting the record straight. History is a war between tribes, not policies.
Paying African Americans to genocide themselves is just a business decision.
That's not sarcasm. That was Sanger's intent and now it's the Democrat's.
or they could just move to Marthas Vineyard with DeSantis' busload of immigrants. What could possibly go wrong?
The claim to a nation, as with any other possession, passes down through the generations. Obviously I am much softer than my 17th century forbears. I imagine the same is true of you, barring the possibility that you are ackshually a super elite navy seal sniper badass.
So you ain't done shit
I’m not going to write an essay detailing my life’s accomplishments (talk about grandiosity). In general, I think the best course of action at this stage is to pursue self sufficiency, raise a family, and prepare for the violent struggles ahead. Agree regarding the dangers of laurel resting. I think we are basically on the same page.
But you didn't. You glossed over the primary aspect of the nazi regulations. Intentionally or through ignorance.
Oops, wrong spot. You guys are so inscrutable like your Japanese "Honorary Aryan" friends.. 😉
Sooo...Siefried Wolsing, Geiger Goldestadt, Rob Misek, and Hans Hermann-Hoppe.
Sounds like ya'll ain't from aroind here, are ya, boys? ????
Wasn’t funny the second time either.
Just throwing their own sentiments against them. It's about damn time Libertarians start using Saul Alinsky to advantage.
I’m not going to write an essay detailing my life’s accomplishments
But I bet you can't hold a "Waelse" as long as Lauritz Melchior.
What sentiment by Hans Hermann-Hoppe are you referring to? Or are you to stupid to understand his arguments?
I know enough to know that Hans-Hermann Hoppe wants "physical removal" of people from a libertarian society who have more Goddamn right to be here than he does.
I also know that Ludwig Von Mises wouldn't want anything to do with this asshole Hoppe or anyone in the Mises Caucus or the Lew Rockheads who attaches his name to Authoritarianism, Mysticism; and Irrationality.
What people? What society? Please explain.
Would be remiss not to point out that your irrational dislike for the religious, and this smearing of a group w/ similar names, does not demonstrate that you are a good fit for libertarian society. Perhaps more 'cogitating' and less presumption of guilt based on your biases.
You know Mises? Did he tell you this?
You sound like a religious person with all the things you “know” without explanation.
“My ancestors did the conquering.”
VIKING GO HOME!!
He wants to remove "Hedonists," people with "non-traditional families," Heterosexual couples without children, Homosexuals, and others he thinks are incompatible with his idea of "covenant communities."
And since this self-proclaimed Anarcho-Capitalist believes in the State enforcing borders, presumably, he'd do the same in today's society if he could.
Clearly, Hoppe slept during Ludwig Von Mises' lectures and never heard that Von Mises and his wife Margit barely escaped with their lives from the Nazis while they didn't have children.
Hoppe can hop his ass down The Road to Serfdom for all I care.
His works say all that needs to be said.
I was throwing their own anti-immigrant sentiments back at them. With smileys to indicate humor.
And my dislike of religion is perfectly rational given its record on government and it should have no part of governing a free society. It's rules should go no further than consenting adult adherents.
Oh, and disliking religion does not necessarily equal disliking the religious. Individuals have rights and deserve a measure of respect, ideas such as religion or politics do not.
Saying that griloups are racist is itself racist. Hasn't the spectacle of CRT made that clear?
Yeeeeep!