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Stossel: The End of Tipping?

Activists want to increase minimum wage for tipped workers.

Celebrities, union activists, and politicians demand that the government raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers. They are upset that in 43 states, tipped workers can be paid a lower minimum wage than other workers. The logic behind the lower minimum is that the tips make up the difference.

That's not good enough for people like Buffalo University law professor Nicole Hallett. She tells John Stossel that, "the problem with tips is that they're very inconsistent." She wants to "require restaurant owners to pay the same hourly wage that all other employers have to pay."

But many restaurant workers like the current system. Waitress Alcieli Felipe tells John Stossel, "don't change the rules on tips.... If you raise the minimum wage, it'll be harder for restaurants to keep the same amount of employees." She works at Lido, a restaurant in Harlem, and says, with tips, she makes $25 an hour, "by the end of the year I made around 48 to 50,000 dollars."

Nevertheless, several cities and states have increased the tipped minimum wage. This had unintended consequences. Michael Saltsman, Research Director at Employment Policies Institute tells Stossel, "in the Bay Area you've got a 14 percent increase in restaurant closures for each dollar increase in the minimum wage." The year after New York increased its tipped minimum wage, the city lost 270 restaurants.

Many higher-minimum activists also say that tipping encourages sexual harassment. Sarah Jessica Parker, Reese Witherspoon, Natalie Portman, Jane Fonda, and 12 other actresses wrote a letter to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo urging him to increase the minimum, claiming, "relying on tips creates a more permissive work environment where customers feel entitled to abuse women in exchange for 'service.'"

But Saltsman says federal data doesn't support that. "Data shows some of the states that have gone down this path that the activists want, changing their tipping system, actually have a higher rate of sexual harassment."

When Stossel pointed that out to Professor Hallett, she replied, "sexual harassment is a very complicated problem, and no single policy is going to eliminate that problem."

Waitress Felipe resents the activists monkeying around with her wages—she doesn't want the law changed, "just keep as it is, we are fine. Who are those people, have they worked in the restaurant industry?"

Many haven't. Many have no idea how popular tips are with restaurant workers. When Maine voters increased the minimum wage, restaurant workers protested and got the politicians to reverse the decision.

Stossel asks, "Why should there be any minimum? Why can't the employer and the employee make whatever deal they want?"

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The views expressed in this video are solely those of John Stossel; his independent production company, Stossel Productions; and the people he interviews. The claims and opinions set forth in the video and accompanying text are not necessarily those of Reason.

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  • Longtobefree||

    She tells John Stossel that, "the problem with tips is that they're very inconsistent."

    Of course, the real problem is that good servers get paid more than poor workers, and that independence is unacceptable to socialists.

  • Longtobefree||

    Actually, I should have said "earn more than" not "get paid more than".
    Serving in a tip establishment is real close to running your own business.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Of course, the real problem is that good servers get paid more than poor workers

    Maybe on balance, but as a former server, I can attest that there are certain types of customers that servers fight over, and fight to avoid, due entirely to what they're known to tip.

  • Diversionary Maenad||

    Waitressed for several years and this is 100% accurate. There are, of course, exceptions, but the waitresses who made the most money were the best. Regular customers would request those servers. Why should I earn the same amount as someone who does a shittier job? I worked at a coffee shop once where there were no tips allowed but tons of customers would always try to give us a little extra, which sometimes added an additional 50% to the cost of their coffee. Am I supposed to literally turn down additional pay in the name of worker solidarity? Fuck that.

  • ||

    I give 18% to adequate pleasant service. I give 20% to someone we feel has gone a tad above our expectations.

    The server who rubs us the wrong way gets 15% and that's because my wife insists. She's one of those 'they may be having a bad day' type.

    I'm more of a 'yeh well, you still have to be professional. I had bad days and never lashed out my clients'.

    Hence, I'd have no problem not tipping or giving less than expected if I feel the server was not professional.

    Dems da consequences of your actions. You're not entitled to my tip.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I always tip at last a few bucks in a meal, even if it's cheap and that puts the percentage high. I also tend to tip closer to 20-25% consistently. But I also go to a lot of the same places every week, and as a decent tipping regular the staff and proprietors are usually friends of mine, and tend to throw me lots of little extras.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    The only customers that really frosted me were the ones who blatantly shoved their tip power in the server's face. One asshole I heard about liked to put down the tip money up front and then pull money away throughout the meal depending on how much he thought the server screwed up. I would have told the fucker, "Keep the money, you obviously need it more than I do." It's not worth running around like an idiot for one guy when you have other customers to take care of who may or may not tip as much in the end, but who definitely won't play those kinds of games.

  • perlchpr||

    I'll swing between 10% and 30%, depending, with a "floor" of about $3. If I order a $5 meal, I'd feel stupid leaving a $0.80 tip.

  • Will Nonya||

    I have no problem not tipping if Im not pleased with the service. That's a pretty high bar to cross with me but it has happened. If I'm happy i generally go with 20+%, if its adequate I'll go 10%. I always try to leave the tip in cash even if i pay for the meal with my card.

    What irritates me are business where I have to wait in line to order, pick up my own food, set my own table and bus it my self that try to get a tip out of me.

  • TeamsterX||

    I bartended throughout college, I would make $100-400 a night working 6 hours...along with my $2.70 an hour wage....

    Apparently, everyone wanting minimum wage for restaurant worker's are lousy tippers.

  • phoqueue||

    The relationship between tip size and service quality is virtually nonexistient.

    ...the correlation between tips and evaluations of the service or dining experience had a mean of only .11.

    Lynn, M. (2001). Restaurant tipping and service quality: A tenuous relationship. Cornell Hotel and Restaurant Administration Quarterly, 42(1), 16.

  • JunkScienceIsJunk||

    New at Reason

    Correction: covered a month ago at Reason.

  • Cy||

    The same people calling for open borders are calling for higher minimum wages enforced by the government. What a bunch of fucking idiots.

  • Rhywun||

    That's because most of the people calling for open borders are fine having an underclass that is not subject to a minimum wage.

  • Rich||

    I knew I guy who always tipped $1. Usually the *coffee-server* was delighted.

  • Rich||

    *a guy*

    *** gets coffee ***

  • Praveen R.||

    I personally hate tipping. It's like this ego trip for the good tippers and a way to weasel out of paying a fair amount by the bad tippers. Some of the best customer service I have gotten in the food service business has been at Chik Fil A. I wonder what motivates them to serve well insspite of a lack of tipping. It's good management.
    A good manager who cna dole out good bonuses to the best servers and cooks and busboys is better than having a tipping system where the tip is a big chunk of the compensation. Tipping should be meant for rewarding someone beyond solid good service and you actually have a little extra money to do that.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Employees at Chick-Fil-A get fired if they are not cheerful and super courteous.

    Its your job to make every customer experience outstanding. If you cant handle that, work someone else.

  • ||

    I love going to Chick-fil-A for that.

    ZERO attitude.

    It's all about service.

    The other day my wife and I considered going to a restaurant. She has severe allergies and walked up to the hostess to ask some basic questions to see if they can accommodate. Most restaurants - a great many of them - are highly attentive and accommodating these days but this hostess couldn't be bothered. Let's just say we were perturbed by her curt response.

    So we walked out. Fuck that shit.

    Service or no money from us.

  • TeamsterX||

    if you get good service, tip 20%...lower it as service goes down...if it out right sucks...choose another restaurant.

  • Sedona Vortex Hunter||

    sorry to break the news to you, but no manager at chik-fil-a is doling out 'bonuses' to employees for doing a good job. If they do it is minuscule, for example something like 15 cents an hour if you have a good review after a year of service.

  • Will Nonya||

    "weasel out of paying a fair amount" what exactly are they paying for? Are you suppose dto pay the same for the waiter who smiles and keeps your classes full and dishes cleared as you do the waitress who snarls and leaves you waiting for attention for extended periods while she's nowhere to be seen?

    I'm a chronic over tipper but I'd be fine if tipping went away. If servers can average more money with it and less at a higher wage then the increase in cost to the restaurant should balance out and the check price would increase by the average. Having a clear price and less hassle is fine by me.

  • Weigel's Cock Ring||

    "The views expressed in this video are solely those of John Stossel; his independent production company, Stossel Productions; and the people he interviews. The claims and opinions set forth in the video and accompanying text are not necessarily those of Reason."

  • Rhywun||

    ?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Translation: Stossel is too libertarian for Reason.

  • Whorton||

    Well that stands to reason.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""Celebrities, union activists, and politicians demand that the government raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers. "'

    Probably poor tippers and thinks everyone else is too.

  • ||

    Jane Fonda shilling for Big Minimum Wage is rich.

  • TeamsterX||

    Well the Vietnam War is over.

  • Heraclitus||

    Stossel presents a very one-sided argument. Where are the voices of the cooks and dishwashers who do not get tips? How about the servers at non-fancy restaurants? They are not making $25/hr. What Stossel neglects to say is that the restaurant business would survive as long as they increase menu prices 15% and then pass on those prices to their workers. What he isn't saying is that owners will not pass on the extra money because that is what owners do. What he doesn't say is that the extra money will get shared with everyone - cooks, hosts, dishwashers - and that servers don't like this. That's understandable but an irrational quirk in our supposedly rational free market. Most servers in regular middle-class joints are not stepping up their game in order to impress you so as to get higher tips. They are robotically performing their duties just like everyone else. As one commenter above pointed out, tipping is just a way for people to massage their egos by giving out big tips and acting like big, important people. We don't tip nurses, sales people and many other helpful people in our business transactions. Why do I tip a person who merely transmits my order to the cooks? And before you go into a defense that includes knowledge about specials or something like this please spare me because 90% of us don't eat at joints where that kind of knowledge is needed. Most places suffice with a print menu anyway.

  • $park¥ The Misanthrope||

    Nobody should get extra money unless everyone gets extra money.

  • Happy Chandler||

    The government shouldn't choose who gets more money.

  • $park¥ The Misanthrope||

    When you posted below, I wasn't sure if you were serious. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • Whorton||

    Which is why all employers tell you not to discuss your wage with other employees, right?

  • Longtobefree||

    They all tell you that, but the NLRB has held that open discussion of wages, hours and other conditions of employment is a necessary first step in unionization, and that prohibiting discussion of wages is an unfair labor prictice.

  • TeamsterX||

    Grasshopper and the ants....you should go read that fable...grasshopper.

  • TechMagick||

    Cooks and dishwashers are not subject to the same minimum wage, because they are not considered tipped workers. So they are already getting more than the servers.

  • ||

    My nephew worked as a dishwasher guy. More often than not, they shared tips with him and did well. He never complained and used the experience to leverage into other positions.

    And he is 'socially awkward' and still manages to get by.

    Just saying.

  • Longtobefree||

    If you are willing to be a dishwasher in a restaurant, and show up for work on time, you will never get fired.
    It is a nasty, dirty job, and the turnover is very high. Even when 'dishwasher' means rinsing dishes and loading a machine, it is no fun. You usually get to take out the garbage as well.

  • mpercy||

    Tipped workers have lower minimum wage. Cooks, dishwashers are not tipped workers and get a substantially higher minimum wage. Here in Georgia, the tipped minimum wage is the same as the federal: $2.13. The standard minimum wage for non-tipped workers is $7.25 (3.4x higher).

    This is only talking about tipped workers minimum wage.

  • TeamsterX||

    Things not mentioned is that most restaurants have a share system also. As a waiter/waitress, tips go to busboys also, bartender pays waiters/waitresses....unless you are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez...she is a Socialist who apparently would routinely screw over her co-workers over tips.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Cooks and dishwashers often get higher wages and do frequently get a percentage of the total day's or shift's tips. So don't assume they make shit for money.

    At any kind of a decent restaurant, cooks in particular make more to much more than minimum. My schedule has me dining out at least once a day if not twice comsistently. I get to know the people at places I regularly frequent and lots of them end up telling me how the wages and tipping work for them. Plus a number of my friends own restaurants and bars. God knows I never would. Lots of risk for thin margins, and too many people problems for my taste.

  • Briggie||

    Don't tipped workers earn more than they would if there were getting a flat wage?

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Depends on the restaurant. Someone working at a high-end place, sure. If you're working at Denny's, no--a table of college students camping out for five hours trying to stave off a hangover, travelers, and low-income trailer park residents are not going to make up the difference.

  • Longtobefree||

    But us high-income trailer park residents tip like crazy, cuz we'uns ain't got no mortgage.

    But yes, it is very Darwinian. The better servers move up to serve in higher and higher class joints, and maybe all the way up to a 'restaurant'. Because it is no more effort to carry a fifty dollar steak than it is a ten dollar hamburger, or a 5.95 hamburger, but the tip is bigger.
    Server attitude, and atmosphere, is what makes dining out worth it.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Denny's varies depending on the crowd. The people at the two that I frequent say they do ok on tips. We have a less students nd a lot more retirees that have decent money where I live though

  • OGREtheTroll||

    Yes. I've spent 20+ years working in restaurants of all types, from a tiny little stand alone coffee shop to fine dining corporate hotel kitchens. In EVERY place the worst servers took home more than any of the non-management, non-server employees, and usually the only person taking home more than the best servers is the GM. Heck I started out waiting tables in high school at a Ponderosa (crappy steak + buffet bar) and would take home $10/hr just in tips when the actual min wage was just $3 something; with my hourly wage too I was making almost 4 times the min wage.

    Something none of the proponents wants to mention is that servers DO NOT have an hourly wage less than minimum wage. Its not a separate min wage here, its a TIP CREDIT that the employer can take if the employee earns enough in tips to cover the tip credit. The servers are guaranteed at least min wage if their tips don't cover the difference; the employer can't take the tip credit unless the server actually earns said tips. So its all a big hubbub over something that isn't even true in the slightest, because no server is taking home less than min wage unless their tips are that bad AND their employer violates the law.

    I think the national avg is that tipped servers earn about twice min wage, and thats been my recent experience. The servers would earn about $15-20/hr in tips + wages when the min wage was $8. That goes up drastically for the more expensive restaurants though.

  • Happy Chandler||

    The government chooses certain workers and says you are the tipped class. Special rules for you. Why should we stand by while the government picks winners and losers?

    Until you can convince people to reject the minimum wage, and it passes just about every place that people can directly vote on it, you shouldn't be for government making exceptions and picking winners and losers.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    The government chooses certain workers and says you are the tipped class. Special rules for you. Why should we stand by while the government picks winners and losers?

    This argument would actually work if the tipped class was universally destitute. But there's a pretty significant difference between a server who works at Ruth's Chris and the one who works at Denny's. The former is going to be less likely to support a standard wage because they're making bank on a nightly basis, and would hardly consider themselves "losers," contra your definition of them. Workers in Vegas receive both standard wages and tips, but places like that are a unique economic ecosystem.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Of course the server at the high end restaurant gets paid more than the one at the low end restaurant. But, they also make more than the cooks who actually make the food, and this difference is because the government has chosen winners and losers and designated certain jobs that play by different rules.

  • SimpleRules||

    Uh, no. The difference is the servers picked a better profession. Stop trying to fix a bad idea; eliminate the minimum wage.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Of course the server at the high end restaurant gets paid more than the one at the low end restaurant. But, they also make more than the cooks who actually make the food

    And at many restaurants, the cooks often make more than the servers due to the massive amounts of overtime they work. Servers often pick up multiple shifts to make more money--I knew plenty that worked 10-12 a week in the middlebrow strip mall franchises because they were, by their own admission, "money hungry pigs". That has nothing to do with the government "picking winners and losers."

    Serving, ironically, is one of few the professions where you have a great deal of control over how much money you make simply based on how often you want to work.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    The real issue of tips vs. a standard wage is the actual cost of your meal. Nominally, you're only paying $15 for a meal from the average restaurant, but the reality is that the "real" cost of the meal is going to be around $18 if you tip 20%. Notice how the economics of tipping have changed over the years as well--it used to be that 10% was considered sufficient (and why most servers today don't like waiting on old people, since they still tip under this paradigm), but the effects of inflation have kicked that up to 18-20% over the last 20 years.

    If restaurants got rid of the tipping model and paid their workers a regular wage, it's likely that the average "real" cost of your meal would be about the same, relative to today's tipping practices.

  • OGREtheTroll||

    the real cost should actually come out to a bit less without the tipping system. If we consider tips to be a market distortion, which it is, such that servers are generally being overpaid vs what a market wage would be, removing the distortion would result in a lower overall cost. If you factor in the tips paid into the total revenue of a restaurant (treat all the money the customer spends as hypothetical revenue), then the largest expense aside from food costs becomes FOH wages. So if tipping is removed, we would see FOH wages go down and menu prices go up but not to the full extent of 18%. Id guesstimate that menu prices would probably go up about 10-12% and server wages would fall to about 125% of min wage instead of 200%.

  • CE||

    I remember when the expected tip was 10%, and you tipped a little more for great service. When I graduated 15% was standard, but people didn't have calculators on their phones (or carry phones at all), so it was easier to calculate 15% on the after-tax amount. I think that's where the 18% expectation came from.

    Now restaurants are starting to put 18/20/22% tip amounts on the check, pushing the expectation to 20%. And even counter service places have a tip line on the receipt, when you're not getting any personal service at all.

  • Longtobefree||

    Blame the computers - - - - -

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I don't tip unless it's full service, with the exception of coffe bars. If the girl has a juicy set of tits amd flirts with me, I tip extra.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Ending the tip exemption doesn't mean the end of tipping. There shouldn't be government rules enforcing the tip system. Make servers work under the same rules as everybody else.

    Many restaurants, especially high end restaurants, practice tip pooling anyway, where all tipped employees pool a portion or all of their tips to be spread equally. There are rules that regulate who can receive money from the tip pool (generally it's not allowed to give tips to back-of-the-house workers). So, it's not even a reward for the best servers.

    The end of the tip credit does not end tipping. The tip credit has been gone in California for a while, and most restaurants keep tips because the tax laws are based to support it.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Many restaurants, especially high end restaurants, practice tip pooling anyway, where all tipped employees pool a portion or all of their tips to be spread equally.

    In places where tip pooling takes place, the restaurants typically set the standard at 10 percent for bartenders and 10-20 percent for bussers. Implying that the practice of taking ALL the server's tips every night to give to the pool is something common is disingenuous on your part.

  • Happy Chandler||

    That's tipping out, not tip pooling. Tip pooling means all the tips get shared among the servers. This incentivizes teamwork (why should I help you serve your big table when I can refill glasses at mine?). The owners know the good servers, and can reward them with pay raises to keep them happy.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Tip pooling means all the tips get shared among the servers.

    No, tip pooling means that servers provide a share of their tips up to a certain amount. From the DoL:

    "As noted above, the requirement that an employee must retain all tips does not preclude a valid tip pooling or sharing arrangement among employees who customarily and regularly receive tips. The FLSA does not impose a maximum contribution amount or percentage on valid mandatory tip pools."

    That means that "tip pooling" does not necessarily mean that "all tips get shared". It means that a restaurant sets its own level.

    Your "many restaurants" assertion requires a citation, by the way. What percentage is this actually practiced in?

  • Happy Chandler||

    Sorry for not repeating my initial post (some or all tips).

    Can't find a specific poll or percent about how many restaurants pool tips, but I did find references to "many".

    Any counter service restaurant with a tip jar pools by default.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Can't find a specific poll or percent about how many restaurants pool tips, but I did find references to "many".

    Which is meaningless.

    Any counter service restaurant with a tip jar pools by default.

    Oh good lord--you mean the jar that typically has about $5-10 in singles and some change in it? That's utterly meaningless and whatever is spread from there is essentially a rounding error on their daily pay.

  • Happy Chandler||

    You haven't been to San Francisco, have you? Those jars fill up, and with the POS systems now encouraging 18-20% tips after tax on counter service, that money adds up.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    You have no idea how laughingly provincial you sound.

  • CE||

    The owners know the good servers, and can reward them with pay raises to keep them happy.

    So tips aren't needed at all.

  • Happy Chandler||

    You can tell when a restaurant pools their tips or not. Ask a server who is not your server for a drink. If they jump on it, they get pooled tips and benefit even if ever so slightly. If they pretend they don't see you, it's probably not pooled tips.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Ask a server who is not your server for a drink. If they jump on it, they get pooled tips and benefit even if ever so slightly.

    That's a mighty big assumption. I've worked in plenty of restaurants where it's not a big deal to get a customer that's not in your section a drink refill if they ask, and the tips weren't pooled.

    The main reason a customer is going to ask the person who's not their server for a drink is because the one who's section they're sitting in isn't on the ball to begin with.

  • brady949||

    No such luck Stossel. The tipping plague is never going away.

  • CDRSchafer||

    Tipping is so far down the list of anything that needs solving. People who work in restaurants and bars for a living don't want it changed. Another solution without a problem brought to you by idiot "progressives".

  • Happy Chandler||

    Tipped workers don't want it changed. Non-tipped workers do. Why should tipped workers have special rules?

  • ||

    Jesus Christ.

  • Happy Chandler||

    So equal rules for everybody is now communist, and government picking winners and losers is freedom?

  • ||

    Instead of using the distorting warped coercion of the state to force change, let the damn industry and their workers work things out.

    How about that?

  • Happy Chandler||

    Exactly what I'm saying. End special rules for protected classes.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Your "protected classes" assertion only works if one class always makes more than the other class. If you actually worked in restaurants across the economic specturm, you'd know that isn't the case.

  • ||

    Your latter statement is correct, the former is incorrect. You don't need to have the government step in to make 'rules right'. If I understand your assertion.

  • Happy Chandler||

    The government rules treat different employees differently. Is that okay? Why?

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    The government rules treat different employees differently. Is that okay? Why?

    Are these rules causing actual economic harm, or is it just a means for you to bitch?

  • Happy Chandler||

    I don't think government should be singling out classes of people for special rules.
    Some restaurateurs tried different models, but had to abandon them because the rules protect the special class of workers. That's an economic harm. If a restaurant owner wants to go to an all-inclusive model, or a service charge model, or just pay their employees, they face higher taxes. That's economic harm caused by special government rules.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    I don't think government should be singling out classes of people for special rules

    How exactly are they "singled out?"

    Some restaurateurs tried different models, but had to abandon them because the rules protect the special class of workers

    Assertion without evidence.

    If a restaurant owner wants to go to an all-inclusive model, or a service charge model, or just pay their employees, they face higher taxes.

    *Shrug*. Places in areas that aren't chock-full of proglydytes don't seem to be suffering from it.

  • CDRSchafer||

    Why don't the non-tipped workers become tipped workers if that's what they want?

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Heh, during college, my best friend declined moving from back of the house to the front of the house specifically because he was making so much money in overtime as a prep cook.

  • Sedona Vortex Hunter||

    when I was delivering pizza sometimes some of the inside workers would talk about getting another job because they wanted to earn more. I would ask if they had a car and were 18, and if they said yes I would ask them why not become a driver (we always needed drivers). I told them most drivers earn at least 15 an hour, and the good ones and the ones willing to be closing drivers earn 20-22 an hour.

    Almost none of them liked the idea for some reason. Maybe a couple became drivers in the years I worked there, but most did not and did not seem interested. I had no idea why, and still don't. Their job was way harder than mine, but outside the GM nobody made more there than the drivers.

  • CDRSchafer||

    Some people (me included) don't like dealing with the general public. Which is perfectly fine but there's a cost for that.

  • Sedona Vortex Hunter||

    yeah but most of them had to answer phones as part of their job which seemed to me to be the absolute worst part of working there. Although I guess its true, the more shy or quiet types were able to just make pizzas and do the other side chores while the more people friendly people ended up answering most of the calls.

  • ||

    Hallet is precisely the sort of individual who is a sower of discord and chaos sticking their noses in places they shouldn't.

    I've been hearing her BS since the 1980s. You could earn a good living as a waiter. My buddies were earning serious coin when they worked in restaurants while they studied in school. One earned 70k.

    Yes, we've 'rejected' it for 100 years and we now have 100 years of data that show minimum wage (people really need to brush up on WHY MW was first introduced. Hint: It had squat to do with *helping* those poor immigrants) HURT low income people. We have 100 years of results and we're discovering the progressive agenda ain't what it's cracked up to be.

    Last, the 'they always close' is the mindset of an unimaginative, stagnant, left-wing ideologue who never ran a business. I had a bureaucrat once say to me, 'it's okay that we forced him to close. Another person will take over'.

    It's amazing how they completely ignore the 'unseen' and don't consider the unintended consequences of their interference.

    And what of those people on social assistance? How do we know it's not because they're, for example, living beyond their means? As a former broker/financial planner, I can tell you that happens. A lot. Until you point it out to people.

    'Hey. It's not your salary the problem. It's your spending habits.' /slap!

  • mpercy||

    Some waitstaff likely under-report their tip income and get a tax-evasion benefit, too. Eliminate tips and now all their wages show up on W2.

  • CE||

    Ya think?

  • Longtobefree||

    All their on the clock wages - - - - - -

  • Jack Gritt||

    Americans tip way too much as it is. Dummies believe that 15%, 18% or 20% tips are appropriate.

    But paying someone at the rate of $120 an hour for thoughtless manual labor is the height of retardation. See the numerical facts:

    HERE IS A TIP. AMERICANS ARE THE MOST GENEROUS TIPPERS ON EARTH. FOREIGNERS WHO COME TO AMERICA DON'T UNDERSTAND TIPPING. | TRUE DOLLAR JOURNAL

  • Happy Chandler||

    Other countries don't have rules singling out servers for special benefits.

  • Sedona Vortex Hunter||

    I see, so a lot of these people bitching about tipping are doing it not because they think tipped workers are suffering, but because they have a strict idea what every person 'should' make, and if somebody they believe should be making less is making more, well damn it, they won't stand for it...

    Why should some loser make as much as you, the guy who sits in an office all day commenting on YouTube videos?

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    But paying someone at the rate of $120 an hour

    WTF? You do realize that you only see something like that in the most high-end places, right?

  • Plow Horse||

    Minimum wage laws are an infringement of personal liberty. Why should government get between two private parties negotiating a pay for work arrangement?

    Entry level jobs have a training value that's not baked into the wage. Also consider internships--working under the tutelage of an expert has tremendous value, even if you are not paid. Heck, students pay for the privilege of working on class assignments in order to learn something.

  • Longtobefree||

    Ending tipping will end good serving.

    Table service is brutally Darwinian. Poor workers starve to death or quit. Good servers get better and move up to higher priced places, and make even more money.

    When tipping is eliminated, the good servers will change professions rather than carry the slackers on their backs.
    I have seen that in more than one restaurant just from management imposing tip pooling. Within two weeks the good servers were working elsewhere, the poor servers were complaining about how they actually had to work now, and the customers left for good after the first meal following the change.

  • tommhan||

    Leftists trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Servers would rather things stay the same because higher wages would be followed closely by abolution of tips by restaurant. Competent servers do well financially.

  • Longtobefree||

    Actually, to a leftist there IS a problem. Since good servers get more money than poor servers, that trade encourages individualism. The definition of a problem if there ever was one.

  • Sedona Vortex Hunter||

    Man, this annoys me. I was able to make 20 an hour delivering pizzas in college, and we were paid like $3.15 an hour or something when we were out on delivery. That job allowed me to devote more time to school than I would have otherwise been able had I had some flat 10-12 an hour rate.

    I know a girl who was a cocktail waitress at the Mirage in Vegas while at UNLV. The amount she made would shock people. She ended up a lawyer, but I would not be surprised if she made about the same amount as the cocktail waitress job. The amount she pulled in was staggering. Same with a Valet guy I knew at Bellagio. These 'activists' are going to ruin a great thing, and a legitimate avenue of escape that people have been using for years. Who is pushing this? Servers and Delivery drivers and other tipped employees't want this.

    Many Euro's will often go on and on about how sorry they feel for tipped American workers. They have no idea what they are talking about. This whole topic pisses me off.

  • Tionico||

    Sarah Jessica Parker, Reese Witherspoon, Natalie Portman, Jane Fonda, and 12 other actresses wrote a letter to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo urging him to increase the minimum, claiming, "relying on tips creates a more permissive work environment where customers feel entitled to abuse women in exchange for 'service.'

    What real world experience do ANY of these celebrity wonks have any authority to meddle in this issue? NONE!! That's what. Tell these harpies to keep their noses in their OWN business. Most of them are wealthy enough to buy outright any restaurant they feel does not treat their employees well, and then change the rules in their OWN business.

    Dont these troublemakers know the definitioni of 'FASCISM? Its government control of private means of production. When gummit steps in and mandates what a business owner must pay his help, and on what terms. THAT is the fascism named above.

  • Longtobefree||

    Exactly. Sort of like what happened to healthcare and health insurance under Emperor Hussein.

  • ||

    I work as a prep cook for a Washington state applebees and I started at 14(minimum in Washington is currently 11.50)and now make 15.50 after 9 months on the job. Our line cooks make between 15 and 20 an hour. We are well paid for foodservice work, they used to start back of house workers at minimum wage but had problems keeping quality employees so they raised wages and it's been successful as we have a strong team and are a successful restaurant. That being said the ANY of the servers easily make the most money in the restaurant of hourly employees(they make 11.50 plus tips) and the top servers and bartenders make more than anyone but our GM. We back of house employees generally view them as being overpaid divas lol but they do have to deal with customers which is why we work in the back we don't like people lol! It's a trade off. NOT AT ALL on board with the no minimum wage idea that's so popular on this page. Prepcooks for applebees average 11 an hour nationwide, I make 15.50. You do the math....

  • MDP||

    "relying on tips creates a more permissive work environment where customers feel entitled to abuse women in exchange for 'service.'"

    Yeah. Or the tip functions as an incentive for the server to be diligent, attentive and courteous. It's a great functioning system that works every 999/1000 times but they're going to use the gross outlier as justification to end the whole system which we can say pretty conclusively is not going to end the harassment by the occasional perv.

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