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Stossel: NYC Government Traumatizes Gun Owners

New York City arrests people who travel with guns–even when they notify and follow all TSA rules and have a valid gun license from their home state.

If you have a gun, don't fly out of New York with it! Almost every week, New York City arrests someone who brings a gun to the airport–even when the person has a gun license from their state, notifies authorities about the gun and follows TSA procedures for flying with it. John Stossel interviews people who were arrested and confronts the assistant district attorney who prosecutes them.

In its battle against guns, New York City traumatizes law-abiding gun owners who pass through New York and its airports with guns. One man was even arrested for traveling with an empty magazine.

Bills have been filed in both chambers of Congress to make gun permits valid in all states, which would prevent cases like these.

Stossel interviews Patricia Jordan and Avi Wolf, who were arrested at the airport. Patricia had tried to declare her gun, which was unloaded and in a TSA-approved case. Avi was trying to declare an empty gun magazine–essentially a piece of metal with a spring in it.

For their effort they spent a day in jail. They were threatened with three years and six months in jail–the mandatory minimum for having a gun in New York. They spent months worrying about how to beat the charge. Each spent more than $15,000 in legal bills.

Eventually the government let them off with a violation–"public disorder."

Stossel says: Give me a break. He confronts the Queens District Attorney's office that prosecutes such cases.

Produced by Maxim Lott. Edited by Joshua Swain.

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Read your Constitution. New York and New Jersey (among other places) are Second Amendment-free zones.

  • Hank Stamper||

    They actually aren't covered by any part of the constitution as they are in the border zone.

  • Tionico||

    if they are within the boundaries of the USA, they ARE covered by the Constitution. Last I checked, New Yawk had not yet seceded from the Union. That stinking state, and every city and county within it, ratified the US Constitution, with that Second Article of Ammendment exactly as written today, agreeing to abide by it and uphold it. Else they never could have become a state.

    I'm waiting for the day multiple victims of thus abusive tyranny file a common cause lawsuit against the City and/or State and/or Port Authority for the egregious and repeated violation of their civil rights. New Jersey and Massachussetts are as bad, Maryland is stinky, California is as well. And don't forget the District of Criminals....

    NRA? 2AF? NAGR? CKRKBA? State and local organisations?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    These areas will be some of the first places to lose in the civil war.

  • some guy||

    Once you pass a bar exam you learn the true meaning of the word "infringe". It's not in any of the dictionaries.

  • Tejicano||

    This is how I understand they think about the 2nd amendment. They don't think anything in the constitution covers "bad" behavior (as they define it) so there can be no right to own a gun, thus no infringement since the right doesn't exist.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Another reason why progressives need to be rounded up and deposited face first into landfills. Rinse and repeat until my rights are properly safeguarded. Especially New Yorkers. Complete scum of the earth.

  • BambiB||

    I recall thinking (and saying) on 9/11, "Well, the New Yorkers finally got what they've been asking for."

  • Jerryskids||

    Be interesting if you weren't flying into New York but your flight got diverted - does the pilot get charged? Air traffic controller? You weren't the one trying to bring the gun into New York, they forced you to go.

  • Rat on a train||

    It has happened. You get arrested.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    Ditto for New Jersey; does not matter what your intent is, it is malum prohibitum and you are guilty as such.

  • Cyto||

    Yeah, there really should be Federal action on this. They've skirted the whole thing with certain language about immediately transiting the state, but you should be able to freely move legal goods and services throughout the country without getting arrested in every little Podunk jurisdiction that wants a cut.

    New York and New Jersey are big port states. They could easily outlaw all sorts of things and confiscate them through asset forfeiture at the port as a revenue raiser. This isn't much different.... it is just a matter of the magnitude of the offense and the number of people affected. The legal principles are the same.

  • Cyto||

    Following on this - a good way to get a test case would be to drive to LaGuardia from a nearby state with a CC license and fly out west, loudly declaring your weapon at the counter. If they take the bait, you've got them pretty tightly by the short and curlies. The federal courts would not likely look kindly on a case where someone is unambiguously transiting the state from legal jurisdiction to legal jurisdiction and is stopped in such a manner.

  • DaveSs||

    The Federal courts did look kindly on it, ruling that FOPA does not protect you when transporting through an airport.

    FYTW

    On the other hand, the DOJ seemed to be of the opinion it does protect you

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Any person arrested there should spe d the rest of their life suing everyone involved. Enough lawsuits and it starts to sting. Although personally I think we need a revolution to wipe out the slavers.

  • Robbzilla||

    Meh, if they win, New York just raises the tax rate a little more. It's not like it's the politicians' money at stake. We need to jail these fuckers and confiscate all of their stuff... In the name of civil asset forfeiture of course. Put enough of them in prison, and the rest will slither away. (Non libertarian rant /off)

  • Henry||

    This has happened so many times that the subject is taught in many concealed carry classes. If your flight is ever diverted to any "second-amendment-free zone" (NY, NJ, CA, HI, MA, others), DO NOT take possession of your luggage. Make loud noises to the airline that you have checked firearms in your baggage which you are not allowed to possess in this state, and demand that they take custody of your baggage until you leave the state. What you do for underwear in the meanwhile is an open question, of course, but at least you'll be worrying about it in a hotel room instead of a jail cell.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Oh, damn. Stossel fires a truth projectile right in the direction of that DA.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Lefties are still upset that Stossel eventually learned his way out of lefty group think.

  • some guy||

    Zealots always hate apostates the most.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    That is why the punishment for treason and heresy are so severe.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Kill a traitor first.

  • SQRLSY One||

    What fascist shit will these fuck-sticks come up with next? ANYTHING to bring more power and money to the prosecutors and lawyers, I suppose, goes...

  • Henry||

    I once had an authoritarian whiner ask me how I would like it if terrorists detonated a nuke in NYC, or LA, or DC, or Boston. I told him, "Throw in Newark and Chicago, and I'm on board."

  • Bubba Jones||

    These examples are why I support federal recognition of carry permits. Normally I would prefer to leave that to the states. And they should amend current legislation to include air travel.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    The 2nd Amendment should cover this and would apply to all states but since judges do not do their jobs then federal law preempting NY state laws will do the trick.

    Imprison any NY judge or politician who commits contempt of court, like Sheriff Phoenix got.

  • some guy||

    This. The word "infringe" has a very clear meaning and it doesn't change just because you went to law school.

  • Tejicano||

    Yeah, FOPA and the Heller decision were supposed to make interstate transit clear sailing for gun owners but the state never got around to digesting the legal outcomes from them.

    I love how, when a higher court rules in favor of something the left likes all action counter to that issue comes to a full stop in all circumstances across the land. But when SCOTUS rules in favor of gun owners it takes years and decades (if ever) for local jurisdictions to be brought in line.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    IF another USSC Justice or two retires, or dies.
    IF Trump stay in office until and through that event.
    IF he appoints another judge or two like Gorsuch.

    THEN will be the time for this issue to be granted cert. And that may settle it, until progressive legislators and DAs and judges connive more ways around the Bill of Rights.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    It isn't going to stop them and their 'activism'. They already don't follow the law when it suits them. It's going to take a lot more than judicial or legal procedure to put an end to progressives.

  • Griffin3||

    Crap. And I'm going to NYC this December. I *THINK* a polycarbonate walking cane is still legal, but who can tell what the laws are in that hell-hole?

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    Why on earth would you go to NYC?

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I can't vouch for him, but I go there to complain about how uncouth the rest of the country is.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    Good food. It's the only reason to go to NYC. There are no other valid reasons.

  • Robbzilla||

    You can get better food (sans Italian) in Dallas. We have steak houses that are easily on par, we have much better Mexican, Tex Mex, and BBQ, we have very good seafood, and we have a rich diverse population full of all sorts of interesting places. Oh, and we have more restaurants than NYC. Hell, even Houston has better food than NYC, as a whole. And all in a place that doesn't hate freedom so much.

  • Henry||

    And if you really need the Italian, there's Federal Hill in Providence. A Democrat ghetto to be sure, but not yet a tyrannical hellhole. Mangia!

  • Cyto||

    Nice piece. Too bad only libertarian nutters are going to see it.

    I would have liked to see the DA given a little more rope to hang himself. He did a good job of keeping his comments closely guarded, but he did manage to let a few moments of fascism slip. And he had the money quote of the piece: "take it up with the legislature".

    The bit about "together = loaded" was pretty spectacular. It would have been nice to hammer the details with him.... in separate locked cases is "together" under your definition? How far apart do they have to be? Are they together if they are 2 feet apart? What if they are in two bags that are right next to each other, but owned by two different people? Is 20 feet apart still loaded? If i have a gun in my checked bag, and bullets in my purse, is it loaded? What if I have a gun in my trunk, and a box of ammunition in a Walmart bag in the back seat? How about a gun in the bedroom and bullets in the garage? Still loaded? If I bring an unloaded gun to the gunsmith, does it magically become loaded when I enter the store where he is selling bullets?

    The DA was a pretty interesting functionary. He was all bureaucrat, all the time. Right and wrong are nowhere to be found in his lexicon. Just "can I apply this law to get a conviction?"

    Also missed in the DA discussion .... why are they focusing on people who are leaving New York? He talks about public safety, but they are leaving, not arriving.

  • ||

    Also missed in the DA discussion .... why are they focusing on people who are leaving New York? He talks about public safety, but they are leaving, not arriving.

    This is the part that gets me. This is blatantly Statist shit that a state or federal attorney should be feeding him his teeth over. He might as well be detaining journalists for the Chinese government under the pretense of stealing state secrets because they have photography equipment in their check baggage.

  • ||

    NYC is governed by people who do not like private citizens owning guns, so they are going to harass as many gun owners as they can.

  • ||

    Of course they won't realize it but he's wasting their money. As I said, the part that blows my mind is that with all the drop-of-the-hat boycott shit going on with anti-gay pizzerias and anti-tranny restroom bills, here we have an actual City/State defying federal law, defying other states laws, detaining private individuals only incidentally in the state...

    As others have pointed out above, these shitholes should secede and The Union should sanction them for their Human Rights violations or bring them to heel.

  • n00bdragon||

    I strongly doubt they are ignorant about how their money is being spent on these operations. As far as they are concerned they are likely extremely pleased with how it's being used. New York does not like people owning guns, period. So if you go there with a gun they are going hassle the shit out of you and be absolutely peachy with the amount of time and money wasted and trauma inflicted.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I wonder how much New York as a whole doesn't like it. I certainly know my Uncle and his friends are all hunters and gun nuts. Upstate's a different beast.

  • DesigNate||

    The same people boycotting pizzerias and restroom bills think guns are icky horrible things that should be collected by Superman and thrown into the sun. ie: Tony.

  • Gozer the Gozarian||

    "Also missed in the DA discussion .... why are they focusing on people who are leaving New York? He talks about public safety, but they are leaving, not arriving."

    THIS! -----^

    I would ask for data on how many people are arrested arriving at the airport with firearms versus those who are leaving. Then I would ask if the staff at the airline check-in or TSA were given instructions from the local PD to specifically arrest those people declaring firearms.

    Entrapment? Collusion?

  • Tionico||

    it works the other way round... the TSA goons and checkin creeps tell the coppers, who then make their move. It has also happened upon arrival... you head to baggage claim, TSA have sent word ahead as to WHO had checked arms, Port Authority goons make their move.

    Its pretty big money... each count is at least a grand, if you happen to have "standard capacity" magazines, each one is another felony. I know in New Jersey you cannot possess hollow point.. each round is a new felony. So you have a whole box of 50 Lawman JHP's for your XD.. that's fifty felonies, there, bucko.

  • Gozer the Gozarian||

    Fortunately for me (more unfortunately, but in this case fortunately) I live in NJ and have one of their NJFID cards. I can legally transport my boxed hollow points through the state. I also avoid incarceration transporting firearms throughout the state.

    This area of the country is horrible for 2A rights. I am aghast that legislators have no problem saying "fuck you" to 2A. Most abused right evar...

  • Henry||

    They're going to be very sorry when they finally realize that the second amendment is the only one that can say "fuck you" right back... and the proceeding isn't subject to lawyer-speak.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    These people love the power of the state. So I say oblige them. Trump should systematically put every major progtard metropolis in the US under martial law until removal of subversive elements and observance of the constitution can be restored.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    He was all bureaucrat, all the time. Right and wrong are nowhere to be found in his lexicon. Just "can I apply this law to get a conviction?"

    Clearly a sociopath. No empathy for his victims, just "the law is the law, period." I won't be the least bit surprised when this jack ass runs for Congress in the near future.

  • Wizard4169||

    Also missed in the DA discussion .... why are they focusing on people who are leaving New York? He talks about public safety, but they are leaving, not arriving.


    Because New Yorkers are so much more enlightened than the rest of us, clearly they must protect the entire nation. Who knows what we yokels might get up to without their guidance?

  • lap83||

    Sadly, a lot of liberals I know here in flyover country would probably love that. It would give them extra opportunities to reference their trips to the coast. "Now where did I put my Big Gulp? Oh, that's right it was confiscated the last time I left New York!"

  • Tionico||

    in NYC loaded or empty is the same thing.. you HAVE it. NYC forgot they are part of the US of A. Per these eedjits, you can have a gun but no ammo whatever, and you're still charged. You didn't get their Mother May I Card... never mind it taks six to eight weeks to get it, the city can tell you NO because they can, and they NEVER issue said Mother May I Cards to non-residents.

    And the concealed carry reciprocity won't help this garbage, as the guy was not carrying it concealed, was he? THink I'm kidding? That's precisely the way they WILL see it and run it.

  • Tejicano||

    I wonder if the gun would still be loaded had the owner put the gun in the locked case, the bullets in a proper box away from the gun, and mailed all the magazines to her home address the morning before heading to the airport. Would they still contend that the gun was loaded if there were no magazines with it?

    You know what answer my money would be on.

  • Cyto||

    I still have a hard time with things like magazines being illegal. How can a simple shape be illegal? It can't do anything to anyone.

    It reminds me of the "obscenity" witch hunts of the 80's. Prosecutors kept raiding places like "Adam and Eve" and carting out boxes of dildos, saying they were obscene. I couldn't wrap my head around the notion that a solid piece of rubber could be illegal. It seemed like a farce. And the prosecutors did inevitably lose. But they got more than a pound of flesh along the way.

    In this case we have a piece of steel bent into a box shape. With a spring!! That's a felony? It isn't even an illicit lower receiver.

  • Radioactive||

    ADA's= idiots from second and third tier law schools too stupid to make it in private practice operating without supervision since the DA's are all looking to get elected to higher office...only form of lawyer dumber than a public defender

  • Longtobefree||

    If a machined piece of metal is a gun, then a metal box with a spring has no rights.

  • Tejicano||

    I noticed that they didn't show exactly which magazine was confiscated - but had it been a normal capacity (30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo) AR-15 magazine and had I been caught with it I would have said it was for my 50 Beowulf AR in which case it only holds 10 rounds - and I can declare that I never load more than 7 rounds which is what NY state requires.

  • Radioactive||

    I guess if you have a day to spare and an extra $15K, you don't need to take reasonable precautions about your fire arms when visiting the various sanctuary cities around the country...you can be right and still be sitting in some city jail eating a cheese sandwich...

  • Ride 'Em||

    John Stossel, please, please, they are cartridges not bullets. When I hear people say bullets when they mean cartridges it is like chalk sqeaking on a blackboard.

    The biggest takeaway is that NYC government and officials are idiots who are power drunk. They just want to harass law abiding citizens.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    "John Stossel, please, please, they are cartridges not bullets"

    This is why there are no female libertarians.

  • Ride 'Em||

    Not female.

  • ||

    QED

  • GroundTruth||

    How bout a dead one? Virginia Heinlein was apparently responsible for converting her husband from progressivism.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    Where is zombie Virginia Heinlein when we need her...

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    I am sure someone is about to release a 10 page manifesto about how we shouldn't try to force women into libertarianism against their biological proclivities.

  • Robbzilla||

    If they do, Google'l fire 'em.

  • Jalestra||

    I'm a woman, but I suppose it could depend on what definition you use....

  • Ron||

    the general public may not know what a cartridge is while they do know what a bullet is. those of us who do know can look past that issue

  • Ride 'Em||

    But that is the problem, the public not understanding firearms. The left I able to use incorrect words to inflame the public. It is like the term high powered assault weapons. I have lever action rifles that fire a higher powered cartridge then an AR-15. It is also fun to point out to others how dumb gun control advocates don't know what they are talking about. My other excuse is that I come from a profession that stresses accuracy because of legal reasons.

  • $park¥ leftist poser||

    Because smugly correcting people is a good idea and always works.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    Not it's not and you should know better.
    [smells own smug]

  • ||

    My other excuse is that I come from a profession that stresses accuracy because of legal reasons.

    A duty-bound professional internet grammar Nazi?

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Put the bullets in the clip and get over it.

    /not a pedant

  • Kandralla||

    Francisco, Francisco, Francisco... it's 'splody nubs in the shoot loader.

  • Datrebor||

    I've seen and posted on FB about a regular looking hunting rifle that shoots the same ammo, has the same rate of fire, and the mag holds the same amount of ammo. But one looks scary (AR-15 and the AR does not stand for Assault Rifle) and the other is just a rifle which no one is seeking to ban. Go figure.

  • Tionico||

    and my BAR, chambered in .30/06, has FAR MORE range and downrange energy than any AR 15.... yet no one ever looks askance at that monster, capable of dowing any game animal in the Americas with one well placed round at some pretty long ranges... ranges and hit power the AR 15 utterly lacks.

    But then, when one is crazed with panic over the mere fact "dey gots GUNNNNnnnnnnnnzzzz" its not reasonable to expect reasonable discussion.

    Somethings the copper coated lead capsules need to do the talking.

    But not yet...

  • Robbzilla||

    I know guns. I don't get bent out of shape when someone calls a cartridge a bullet. I save my anger for the people who call magazines clips.

  • ||

    John Stossel, please, please, they are cartridges not bullets. When I hear people say bullets when they mean cartridges it is like chalk sqeaking on a blackboard.

    Some of us dispense shells from a hand cannon thank you very much.

  • Ride 'Em||

    Huh?

  • ||

    You're attempting to enforce a consistent/formal grammar on inconsistent/informal language *and* subject matter (on a presumably non-expert no less). You're hardly the first and probably the main thing that prevents you from being the least intelligent about it is that most of the formal nomenclature was composed at a time when the majority of users couldn't read or write.

    Most dumb hicks with even a passing familiarity with the firing line will correct anyone who calls a shotgun a rifle. They will frequently do so under the justification that the barrel isn't rifled, even if the barrel is rifled and despite the fact that we call other firearms with rifling as guns. Additionally, the formal definition of a shell comes from artillery and refers to the projectile, frequently charged with explosives and as separate from the propellant. However, a wholly-integrated shotgun shell is not improper nomenclature and the term shell is frequently used even for hard-cartridge rounds with the informal distinction being merely/largely one of caliber.

    Stossel's on your side and there's actually little indication that he's not saying what he means or that there's a marked difference in the larger point (even the cartridges themselves are exceedingly benign).

  • Domestic Dissident||

    At least he didn't say "semiautomatic assault weapon".

  • Rat on a train||

    A crowbar? No, that's lever action. An alligator!

  • Tejicano||

    Yeah, an ASSAULT WEAPON!!! As opposed to a weapon which has no capacity for assault, like a... hm... well,...

    It's just like we talk about "round wheels", and "air fans", and "hot flames" because without the modifier people might get confused.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Have I mentioned I like Stossel?

  • Tom Bombadil||

    Holy Shite, how many months have you been lurking for this "mention"?

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    Since The Glibening.

  • Arizona_Guy||

    What, may I ask, is "The Glibening"

    I keep seeing references to some event with that name.

  • Robbzilla||

    Isn't that when Andy Gibbs grew to gigantic proportions and terrorized Albuquerque?

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    Not recently.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    I feel bad about that.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    "You're a sadistic bully"

    Damn... The 'Stache bringing the heat! Next time don't hold back though. Personally, I hope that fucker gets raped up the ass with a rusty chainsaw.

    I'm enjoying some of these new videos where Stossel interviews the statist fucks behind some of this shit and you get to watch them try and justify their horseshit. It's fun to watch them twist, but terrifying at the same time that shitheads like this Jack Ryan douchebag exist and that these are the kinds of people that have power over the rest of us. Government work attracts the worst kinds of people.

  • DaveSs||

    What is really surprising is the statists are actually sitting to give an interview

    Usually they refuse when they know the interviewer is going to grill them.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    Some of them might not be familiar with Stossel. They'll catch on eventually and he won't be able to get them to talk to him publicly embarrass themselves.

    Or maybe they figure since this is for an internet video that's only going to be seen by "extremist" libertarian wackos they don't care. No one that matters will see it.

  • ||

    I think, especially in some places like NYC there is a distinct element of "I know my constituency." The felons in lockup were incredulous that the guy got locked up for an empty magazine but I bet a decent percentage of the people in line behind him were on the NYPD's side. If only for creating a hassle and slowing down the line.

    Don't wanna go for a ride downtown like a thug? Don't keep an empty magazine in your check baggage like a thug.

  • Tionico||

    thugs don't keep empty mags in their checked baggage because they're "thugs" . IF they happen to have one lying about in there, it would be for the same reason any of the rest of us would... forgot the dumb insignificant hunka steel was in there from the last time I used the bag. Ya know, when guns are a part of your life, guns, gun stuff, gun parts, tools, accessories, consumables, all find their way into strange places, unbeknownst to the owner. I've had opportunity to drive my big van across the boundary into Canada... and chose not to. Why? There are about 3500 cubic feet inside that big breadbox..... I've owned it for twelve years. Gone everywhere, done everything in and with it.... for years I was involved in teaching rifle marksmanship, had spare guns, mags, targets, target backers, staples, ammunition, slings, etc etc that likely have wandered into some hidden places inside that tin can. Did not feel like doing full interior detail job before venturing across their madjicul line.... they WILL make big trouble for you if they find even ONE round undeclared (and with good purpose) if they search.

  • Tejicano||

    I loved (not really) how that statist fuck was sitting there wearing an AMERICAN FLAG NECKTIE - like that somehow justifies all the Gestapo BS he perpetrates on the citizens under his gaze.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    Eventually the government let them off with a violation–"public disorder."

    I was curious what the penalty for "public disorder" is in NY - I was guessing a fine, which was probably the real point of this shitshow: to make money off of people traveling through NY.

    I couldn't actually find a specific offense called "public disorder" but this is the definition of "disorderly conduct" under NY law:

    A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause
    public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk
    thereof:
    1. He engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening
    behavior; or
    2. He makes unreasonable noise; or
    3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an
    obscene gesture; or
    4. Without lawful authority, he disturbs any lawful assembly or
    meeting of persons; or
    5. He obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or
    6. He congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to
    comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse; or
    7. He creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act
    which serves no legitimate purpose.
    Disorderly conduct is a violation.
  • Cynical Asshole||

    In what way does carrying an unloaded gun (I don't give 2 shits what that fuckwit DA says) in a locked case meet any of those definitions of disorderly conduct? I suppose in the mind of an anti-gun statist fuckwit maybe number 7, since in their addled mind carrying a gun itself is "hazardous or physically offensive" and "serves no legitimate purpose" but to any normal person that's complete bullshit.

    The gun would be locked away in a case, an no other passenger would even know it was there, so it's clearly not creating "a hazardous or physically offensive condition" and traveling with a gun does serve a "legitimate purpose," specifically self defense. The more you look at this, the worse it gets. I think I'll stop now before I put my fist through my monitor.

  • Tom Bombadil||

    Are you claiming that a cockhead shitting his pants doesn't create a public disturbance?

  • ||

    In what way does carrying an unloaded gun (I don't give 2 shits what that fuckwit DA says) in a locked case meet any of those definitions of disorderly conduct?

    IANAL, but aren't these cases plead down and, as such, the actual charge doesn't have to meet any sort of reasonable scrutiny or whatever? 5 and 6 together pretty much sound like 'not going where the police tell you to go or *expect* you to go'. Also, no indication of to whom the public inconvenience or annoyance is caused. One TSA agent and one person in line behind you would seem to be more than sufficient to meet the need.

    Not that I agree with any of the farce, just that the vague law vaguely applies.

  • Ska||

    Dis con is what you plea to so that you can pay the court $500 and not have a criminal record. It's what you go for if you're attempt at an ACD goes south.

  • Cyto||

    This is the same format of "disorderly conduct" the frat boys taking the pledges to the toga party a while back got. They had the pledges tied up with bedsheets in the back of the pickup truck - sorta Togas - when the deputies passed them.

    Thinking a kidnapping was underway, they called out the entire force to catch the dangerous perps. After figuring out that it was just a rush party, they arrested everyone and charged them with kidnapping, reckless endangerment, anything they could think of. Eventually the DA settled for "disorderly conduct", because of all of the commotion and panic caused by the police pulling out gun and threatening to shoot everyone.

    I once agreed to pay a $110 "civil penalty" to clear a bogus traffic ticket. The DA basically knew he would cost me way more than that to come back and fight it, so it was basically a convenience fee to make it go away without a fight. As he put it "I have to get something for my client".

    In this case the "something" is a face-saving conviction.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an
    obscene gesture; or

    That's illegal in NY?

    5. He obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or

    I'M WALKING HERE! I'M WALKING HERE!

    6. He congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to
    comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse; or

    So much for occupy wall street.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    And that pesky 1st amendment.

  • Wizard4169||

    4. Without lawful authority, he disturbs any lawful assembly or
    meeting of persons


    If the "assembly or meeting" is lawful, then just how could anyone possibly have "lawful authority" to disturb it? Seems that kinds of runs into that whole First Amendment thingy....

  • I can't even||

    This will continue until somebody doesn't cave and the case makes it to the Supreme Court and New York (and NJ, CT) gets a massive slap-down.

    Unless and until one these makes it all the way to the top, the 2nd Amendment won't exist in these states.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Perhaps the ACLU might take an interest in these cases.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    SARC intended, I'm sure. The membership of the ACLU isn't exactly represented in the NRA.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    And that's tragic.

  • Robbzilla||

    They've gotten slightly better in the last decade or so, but I still wouldn't pin any hopes on them.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    I'm going to sign up for the legal defense coverage, either NRA's or US Concealed Carry. At least if you find yourself in such a situation as these hapless persons did, you will have some legal representation without having to fork out $15+K.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Remember: the law is the law, and if you break the law, you deserve to be punished.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    Yeah: If you don't like it, "take it up with the legislature" cause their ain't gonna be no judgement calls round here!

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Wisdom.

  • DRM||

    Darn straight. And the relevant law is 18 U.S. Code § 242 , "Deprivation of rights under color of law". For which the ADA should be indicted, tried, convicted, and imprisoned.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Stossel missed an opportunity to grill the prosecutor.

    If the gun and the ammunition are "together" it's loaded.

    Define "together".

  • BYODB||

    I prefer my prosecutors deep fried. Now defense attorney's are excellent grilled!

  • Robbzilla||

    You should try both blackened with Cajun spices.

  • BYODB||

    This is especially fucked because it's a crazy type of entrapment that could even be a precursor to what we see when they make a true grab for people's guns at the Federal level.


    These people are following the letter of the law when they self-report and jump through the myriad hoops required to fly with their firearm.


    Then, when these people follow the law they are arrested and harassed.


    Thus the only way to follow the law without being arrested is to break it.


    Thanks, New York.

  • Curtisls701||

    Let's face it, while NY loves its gun control, the real purpose here is a revenue stream. If it weren't, they would stop people on the way in, instead of the way out. NY is using this much like speed traps are used.

  • ||

    Let's face it, while NY loves its gun control, the real purpose here is a revenue stream.

    I don't know this to be the case. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it were a wash and this was pure theater. Sending a clear "Don't bring your guns, Bibles, and/or bitter clinger culture to NYC." message.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I would sue the living shit out of the airline for their involvement.

  • Tionico||

    the airline is NOT involved... its all Port authority coppers, dirty TSA goons, and such. They do the same "job" for anyone no matter what airline they fly. TSA are the ones regulating, inspecting, securing, warting about, etc, arms. Once its in the hold, the airlines don't give a rip. It doan mayk no nemmine no how.

  • SFC Steven M Barry USARET||

    What is the name of that sit-eating prosecutor?/ S//

  • SFC Steven M Barry USARET||

    Sorry... "Shit-eating."

  • Bruce 6225||

    Is it Sodom or Gahomora, this New New York city. It shall be corrected for its attacks against America.

  • Datrebor||

    This is another reason to boycott NY and NJ. If all these people would sue NY there might be a chance of changing this. BTW isn't the airport itself Federal property? Or does the state govenment control them?

    Infringe: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another.
    Legal definition: The encroachment, breach, or violation of a right, law, regulation, or contract.
    Although this is used more for Patent, or Trademark.
    trespass, encroach, infringe, invade mean to make inroads upon the property, territory, or rights of another. trespass implies an unwarranted or unlawful intrusion.

  • John B. Egan||

    Well..... If every state has to honor every other states laws about gun ownership, then I guess it's only fair that all states honor other states' laws about underage sex, speed limits, marijuana, abortions, etc.... Sounds OK by me! I don't smoke pot, but I'd be more than happy to sit outside Jeff Session's office window and light up a doobie!

  • jonnysage||

    These people got what they deserved...for visiting New York. Hopefully they learned a lesson.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    So remind me what NYC does for the rest of the country, besides that whole global finance thing (trigger: fond memories of 2007).

  • burgess4321||

    As a none American, from the UK living in Aus, I simply don't understand this debate. Like most rational people in the non-American world, I don't want a gun, I don't want to live near people who have guns, and I would like to tell someone whose tailgating me to back-of without the fear they might sudden pull out a firearm or even an intercontinental ballistic missile from their back seat and fire away. The whole gun thing is simply an example of collective madness along with the lack of universal health care. Reason is about learning from others experiences when they do things better. And on these two issues the US is the dunce of the class.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    An "intercontinental ballistic missile from their back seat and fire away?" Hyperbole much?

  • AlgerHiss||

    But you're perfectly fine with government employees having a gun.

    Along with your moaning about a lack of "universal health care", who in God's name changes your diaper for you?

    I suppose you'd try and claim you're not a sheeple.

  • MacDaddy81||

    And you are also fine being a serf. Your choice. I really don't give a damn what disarmed and browbeaten people think. You don't want a gun, that is your right. Owning guns to protect myself, my family, and my rights is mine. I don't care what you think about me exercising my rights. Go be a good little subject.

  • Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting||

    As a none American, from the UK living in Aus, I simply don't understand this debate. Like most rational people in the non-American world

    I'm not sure how versed you are in UK history, but the colonies fought and won a revolution so we wouldn't have to listen to you fuckwads on any social or economic issue.

    The whole gun thing is simply an example of collective madness along with the lack of universal health care

    LOL, there's nothing insane about supporting the right to defend your family and your loved ones. We aren't interested in your little fantasy of progressive feudalism.

    Reason is about learning from others experiences when they do things better

    Violent crime has been on a 20-plus year decline in this country. Clearly the fact that people own firearms is not hindering this.

  • burgess4321||

    Compare gun deaths in America with the UK/Australia and the rest of the civilised world and then tell me how safe you feel. Are you people really that stupid. Well Trump did get elected and the back-ups are crazies like Pence and Cruz - so I suppose yes.

  • AlgerHiss||

    And then you have NRA board member...Tom Selleck...starring in that wretched piece of CBS propaganda "blue bloods".

    NRA should order Selleck to make a choice: You're on our board, or your on that awful pro-nypd show, but not both.

    Selleck should be ashamed of himself.

  • gphx||

    New York City is like the Middle East - anyone dumb enough to go there deserves what they get. We could probably add airports in general to the list too.

  • burgess4321||

    Get rid of your guns, get universal health care, ditch religious fundamentalism, take soccer seriously, and finally join the civilised world.

  • Deviant Ollam||

    While this will surely get plenty of people jumping all over me, I would like to point out that the air travel element is not the issue here... it's merely what triggers these citizens' interactions with law enforcement. The actual crime (which is goddamn stupid, i'm the first to claim, very loudly) for which they are being rolled is possession of a firearm in New York.

    Meaning every last one of them admits to having stayed in New York overnight with their gun or gun parts.

    I have flown into and out of LGA and JFK multiple times with my firearms. There are even photos on twitter and elsewhere of me getting the guns screened by officers at these airports (which, again, is a total waste of everyone's time) so I can assure you it's absolutely possible to do.

  • Deviant Ollam||

    The magic words are as follows...

    Officer: "Where are you coming from today?"

    Citizen: "I was in Pennsylvania [or any place that is not New York] and came straight here this morning with my unloaded firearm in a locked container."

    Officer: "So, you weren't staying in New York with this?"

    Citizen: "Not at all. I am just transiting through."

    Officer: "Is there any ammunition?"

    Citizen: "In an entirely separate case, also locked. The gun and the ammunition are in totally separate cases, each of which is separately locked. They have been and will be for the duration of this entire journey."

    Officer: "OK, well, i just have to make up a report then we'll get you to TSA for screening of the luggage."

    I am not saying that I support this bullshit in any way, shape, or form. But what i AM saying is that if you MUST fly out of NYC, the above conversation should keep you clear of any legal hassles. If you are asked "why fly out of New York when you were staying in New Hampshire last night?" or anything similar... you have the right to not answer or simply say "that's the way my workplace booked this itinerary... must have been a better ticket price" or whatever other excuse you want to make.

    Let's all keep fighting for better laws. Let's end this bullshit at the NYC airports.

    And, in the meantime, let's keep ourselves and our associates out of jail so we can continue to have that fight 7 days a week, 365 days a year. You don't do anyone any good being stuck behind bars.

  • burgess4321||

    Why on earth would you want to travel with guns to a city never mind own them in the first place. Try reading a few books and watching something other than Fox News you might then not be such as redneck and menace to society.

  • JonBog||

    This mornings NRA-ILA email update mentioned Stossel's report but linked the original story to the "Washington Free Beacon". It would be nice if they attributed it to the ACTUAL original source. UUUGH.

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