Should Affirmative Action End?
Jason Riley and Paul Frymer debate affirmative action and the Supreme Court.
Princeton University professor Paul Frymer and Wall Street Journal columnist Jason Riley debate the resolution, "The U.S. Supreme Court's 2023 decision to dismantle affirmative action in American higher education marked a significant regression in the pursuit of racial equality."
Arguing for the affirmative is Frymer, a professor of politics at Princeton. He's the author of Uneasy Alliances: Race and Party Competition in America and Black and Blue: African Americans, the Labor Movement, and the Decline of the Democratic Party.
Arguing against the resolution is Riley, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. He's also the author of several relevant titles, including The Affirmative Action Myth: Why Blacks Don't Need Racial Preferences To Succeed and Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed, False Black Power.
The debate is moderated by Soho Forum director Gene Epstein.
- Post Production Supervision: John Osterhoudt
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Please to post comments
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes.
How about for the Jews, Nazi shit?
Yes
Yes, institutionalized requirements making hiring decisions in whole or in part based on race or sex should end. If it is not ended, the the influence of Nick Fuentes and his ilk will be boosted.
In all circumstances? Woman's spa needs to hire male waxers? Black lesbian bar has to hire straight white male bartenders?
Private businesses can (or should be able to) hire based on whatever they want.
Sure but I doubt there's a big customer demand for male bikini waxers. If that's the case I'd like to submit a resume.
No, and I think the market will deal with that just fine without legal or formal institutional requirements.
Agree completely.
Not as long as any form of anti-discrimination law exists. Sure demand for the job/characteristic mix may be low but the demand for ambulance chasing suits and a quick payday is high.
Hence "without legal... requirements".
You’re hired!
Your first two customers will be Katie porter and lizzo. Enjoy!
No, the 14th Amendment is about race only. Leave sex out of the legal analysis. If you want to drag sex discrimination in as some kind moral evil, then creech is right; you're begging for men in women's sports, bathrooms, and lives.
Affirmative action is based on race, it is racist by definition, and is just another example of amending the Constitution by reinterpretation.
And even if there wasn't Fuentes and his ilk, it would still be wrong, racist and counterproductive.
Which is odd because nick Fuentes is, by all accounts, a dei hire
Inconvenient truth:
"affirmative action" is racism.
^+1. As is DEI.
Libertarian answer: it should never have existed.
Whoa there buddy. Only jeffsarc and select others have been issued the decoder for libertarian answers.
BE-SURE-TO-DRINK-YOUR-KOCHVALTINE
JeffSarc takes their Kochvaltine as a foot long suppository.
Perhaps Chumby will illustrate.
Obviously yes. It's one of the biggest no-brainers out there.
Short answer: yes.
If ever there were a topic that needs no debate it's this one. But kudos to Reason for remaining irrelevant.
The U.S. Supreme Court's 2023 decision to dismantle affirmative action in American higher education marked a significant regression in the pursuit of racial equality.
Interesting phraseology. It paints the SFFA v. Harvard decision in a negative light. Why not word the resolution as saying the decision "marked a significant progression in the pursuit of racial equality"?
The statement is merely the topic to be debated. I don't see any problem with it. You propose a resolution, and then debate it. I'm not going to listen to this debate because nothing said here will change my opinion... it's on par with "children should be medically sterilized if a parent, school official or family therapist notes "gender non-conforming" behavior in a child".
The answer is "No" today, "No tomorrow", "No forever".
They may as well say niggers are to stupid and lazy to actually earn a spot so we need to just give them reserved spaces and grades. It's totally abhorrent.
At this point the failure to succeed isn't baked into the law or broader culture so there is no excuse for this but getting rid of it exposes cultural flaws in the sub-community that they want to leave unexamined.
niggers are to stupid and lazy to actually earn a spot
After decades of dysgenics through the subsidizing of the reproduction of indigent unmarried women, that is true of a large proportion of urban Blacks.
This is seriously open to debate?!
For some, it is not as black and white as it is to others.
Hands down, Jason Riley won this debate. I was not familiar with him before this debate. Paul Frymer strikes me as a Ivy Leaguer who believe in white liberals being the savior to black america.
Jason makes a great argument that affirmative action is counter productive and is more like a crutch for some people and an impediment and insult to others. It opens successful black people who have worked hard to be second guessed if they got there due to their merit or not.
Personally, I don't see the benefit of the Ivy League in regards to actual practical education, but see the benefits in "Connections". I would much rather hire a person educated in a fly-over school that a person who has all the "Connections" from their Ive League education.
Personally, I don't see the benefit of the Ivy League in regards to actual practical education, but see the benefits in "Connections". I would much rather hire a person educated in a fly-over school that a person who has all the "Connections" from their Ive League education.
I wonder when Ivy League schools came to be about "Connections" and not the rigor of the education.
About 200 years ago?
More like 400 years ago.
I was worried I didn’t go back far enough.
These are the oldest Universities in the country. They started out as clubs for rich influential families. The networking is still a prime reason to go to an Ivy League school. They also have strong research programs due to the $$ and people they attract from connections, reputation and alums (not just federal $$.)
Look at Harvard great streek!
At least a decade of medical fraud, and higher ING a pedofile as an ethics professor!
America's universities have become less than useless.
University of Michigan is now considered the worst university in America.
On the plus side, many young men are now seeking tech/trade schools and apprentiships instead of a useless college degree.
Ford recently stated they need 5000 new mechanics willing to work for $120,000/year.
Ever since Nazi shits like you started whining about the Jews. Fuck off and die, asshole.
Perhaps Hank can confirm. He was around at that time.
Affirmative Action was replaced by DEI or more to the point, DIE.
The results can be seen from one end of the nation to the other.
The worst example by far was the Los Angeles fires that was made all the worse by DEI hires ie" mayor, fire chief and worst of all, those who helped create the conditions for such destruction.
This experiment has been a dismal failure from the onset. It proves you cannot put incompetent people into positions of authority and expect anything other than outright failure. It's the reason why so many cities are nearing collapse.
The Nazi shit-pile JohnZ hopes to replace thinking people with is Sieg Hiel salute!
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
An equally pressing concern is: Has Christian National Socialism--especially in its Ku-Klux and Comstockist manifestations--ended? Comparing the GOP platform with the NSDAP, Klan and eugenicist formulae provides stark evidence that force-initiating racial collectivism is alive and well--albeit masked as usual.
LIBtranslator offers word salads and un-supported claims as LIBtranslator is a lying pile of TDS-addled steaming shit.
Fuck off and die, shitstain.
Wrong place.
NO. NO.
It should go in reverse. Preferential treatment to white, male, straight, Christians.
Middle finger to the women.
Middle finger to the blacks.
Middle finger to the gays.
Middle finger to the heretics.
And then when they all complain, we thump them over the head with the reality of the problem with Affirmative Action.
And by "thump them over the head," I mean literally. With a blackjack or something.
Negative Action
Remember negative action against Jews? It was promoted by the anti-Semite, President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Jews in law-schools, for example, should be limited to their percentage of the population. Jews of The Left, nevertheless, loved him. These were the same sort of Jews who voted for Zorhan Mamdani. Go figure!
https://www.nationonfire.com/jews-of-the-left/ .
Yes!
Affirmative Action is legalized racial discrimination.