Should Paying for Sex Be a Crime?

A debate between Melanie Thompson and Kaytlin Bailey.

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Should Paying for Sex Be a Crime?

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Melanie Thompson of the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women and Kaytlin Bailey of Old Pros debate the resolution, "Paying for sex should be a crime."

Thompson is arguing in favor of the resolution. She is the chief advocacy and outreach officer at the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International, an organization working against the trafficking and sexual exploitation of women and girls.

Bailey is arguing against the resolution and is the founder and executive director of Old Pros, a non-profit media organization that uses storytelling to advocate for sex workers' rights. She is also the host of The Oldest Profession Podcast.

The debate is moderated by Soho Forum director Gene Epstein.

Comments

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

Everyone pays for sex in some way.

[NoVaNick]

^This^. And if you’re married, you really pay.

[Rick James]

Wait'll you get divorced, then you pay even more to stop having it.

[JohnZ]

If there are children present, then you'll pay and pay and pay and pay and....
Living in some run down singlewide ain't so bad with a fresh coat of roof seal .

[Chumby]

Sarc moved to a cardboard box in an alley after his wife left him.

[Chumby]

Unless you get free tickets to a WNBA game and are lucky enough to win a fan giveaway of Dunker, their new mascot.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Hey in CA purchasing a minor for sex is a low level misdemeanor

[Rick James]

Progress!

[JohnZ]

How much did Jimmy Saville pay for his little romps with children?

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Probably too many California assemblymen getting pinched for paying to fuck underage teen boys.

[Eeyore]

If you are paying someone like Epstein to broker the sex, then probably.

[Rick James]

Kaytlin Bailey of Old Pros

For someone who sucks dick for a living, she talks too much.

Oh, "oldpros", again I have to give credit to Ms. Bailey-- at least she calls things what they are.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

I wouldn’t pay either of them for sex.

[mad.casual]

For someone who sucks dick for a living, she talks too much.

Kaytlin Bailey is the "comedian" with a biology lecture about how women's clitorises are actually the size of a human palm. This factoid is 'revealed' vis-a-vis her blaming society for her getting to 30 yrs. old and not having had an orgasm. Imagine complaining that for 30 yrs. you couldn't breath underwater and the problem was that half of society secretly had gills on their necks and no one told them (including clitoris-havers who love other clitoris-havers).

Awful AWFL as a description doesn't do it justice.

[Rog1]

We currently have many angry young men in this country, some of them acting out in dangerous ways because no woman with any sense will engage with them. Legal prostitution would very probably lower the anger level, providing women could engage in that profession without being forced into it, and their resulting income falling into someone else's pocket.
This was not my position for most of my adult life, but I sat next to an attractive, mid-30s businesswoman on a flight to Europe who admitted she was an Amsterdam prostitute but also a wife and the mother of three children. She cared for the kids during the day, while her husband cared for them during the evening. She was pretty clear that there's a substantial difference between "having sex" and "making love," and that division was critical to her marriage. Her income enabled her husband to pursue a university program, which led to a successful profession. Her income now allowed them to live in a lovely home and allowed her children to attend private schools. She also pointed out that most of the time spent with a client was listening to them complain about their job, their spouse, their kids, etc. She laughingly pointed out that she was also more expensive than an appointment with a psychologist.

[JohnZ]

"I get no respect! I tried buying a hooker one time. After we got undressed she laughed and then gave me my money back. she told me she liked me as a friend."

[AT]

providing women could engage in that profession without being forced into it

And that's where your plan falls apart.

Every single one of them is forced into it. Nobody - except maybe ENB - grows up thinking, "I want to make my living on my back." And the only reason she thinks that is because she's literal evil and trying to corrupt others (the younger the better).

but I sat next to an attractive, mid-30s businesswoman on a flight to Europe who admitted she was an Amsterdam prostitute but also a wife and the mother of three children

Did you ask her the critical question: if you could do literally anything else and achieve the same goals, would you?

Did you ask her the secondary question: do you tell your children that?

[mad.casual]

You're generously assuming the entire conversation took place.

It's got all the "too convenient" "facts" with the specific omission of inconvenient ones, and nauseating glaze of obliviousness of all of it. You'll note that the conversation seems to conform to Rog1's take rather than what a woman would choose to reveal to someone she didn't know or what a wife or mother of 3 kids would say.

To wit; if she's having sex with her clients listening to their motivations and grievances better than a psychologist would, she's making love to them. At the very least, she's treating them in a way that I'm sure her husband would prefer she treat him if they could get the money any other way.

Also, even in Amsterdam the profession isn't without its opponents, shortcomings, and regulations that would never generally fly anywhere outside of Amsterdam. The vast majority of prostitutes are not from The Netherlands and aren't the "businesswoman" that Rog1 claims to have met. They're majority foreign-born and a larger majority of their pimps/handlers/facilitators are foreign born and this is complaints from people engaged in the trade who recognize the parts of it that are, e.g., being run by foreign gangs or are otherwise illegitimate.

[AT]

You're generously assuming the entire conversation took place.

Generously assume it did. It doesn't serve his overall argument at all. Let him have the falsehood, if that's indeed the case. His position still fails.

That way you defeat it on his terms.

[mad.casual]

There are multiple interpretations of "Thou shallt not bear false witness." Arguably the pride of having (supposedly) sat next to an Amsterdam prostitute and claiming the righteousness of it all is a greater affront to humanity and even secular, rational thought than the prostitution itself.

[mad.casual]

This was not my position for most of my adult life, but I sat next to an attractive, mid-30s businesswoman on a flight to Europe who admitted she was an Amsterdam prostitute

This story was more believable when I heard it from Lacy at Brad's Brass Flamingo 20 yrs. ago. or maybe when I read it in "Dear Penthouse"

LOL "Amsterdam prostitute" like they're a fucking baseball team.

[Uomo Del Ghiaccio]

There are many activities in life that a person can find repugnant and has a hard time comprehending how anyone could engage in.

Sex between willing legal adults for pay or not, should not be a crime. If one of the participants is not willing, it's a crime such as if a person rapes or forces sex, then it should be a crime regardless if it was "free" or not.

Should a woman marrying a man because of the size of his bank account be a crime? Should gay or lesbian sex be a crime? Should dinner, drinks, and a movie be considered payment for sex if it results in sec? How about a tennis bracelet or other jewelry?

Why should your morals be forced on others as long as the participants are of legal age and willing participants. Why advocate or a prohibition and create actual crime syndicates like we did with alcohol? Legalization or decriminalization with programs to control access to adults and zoning regulations to protect minors like we do with bars seems more prudent.

While the practice is repugnant, criminalization is not the answer.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Epstein better watch himself. Whoring is ENB territory.

[Vernon Depner]

As soon as it is legalized, guys who can't get laid will demand it be subsidized. Are you ready for Sex Stamps?

[Chumby]

Are those like tramp stamps?

[mad.casual]

As soon as it is legalized, guys who can't get laid will demand it be subsidized.

There might be an intermediate step or two of mandatory as long as she's in the business and they're paying, but yeah.

[Liberty_Belle]

This entire list could use sitting through a Ted Talk with an independent sex worker. The absolute drivel in this comment section is staggering.

[listentoreason]

I was there in person and really enjoyed this debate. Kaytlin Bailey was excellent, in my opinion, and after Melanie Thompson basically dogwhistled that the crowd should not believe Bailey cared about women and that “mutual” sex could only happen if somebody was in a woman’s exact sexual preferences, the audience shifted against Bailey. From that point it was hard to really hear her arguments, not because of anything lacking in her delivery but because the room had taken on an unconscious bias. Even so, Bailey held her ground and argued with clarity for freedom, safety, and dignity. She showed how criminalization makes sex work more dangerous, how decriminalization improves health and safety, and how trusting women’s choices is the only real path to liberation. Where Thompson leaned on fear and control, Bailey spoke for agency and the right to live free and happy.