Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible

Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff discuss their new documentary about the family separation policy implemented during Trump’s first term.

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Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible

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In late 2017, in the name of "zero tolerance," President Donald Trump introduced a policy of separating parents and children who crossed the Southern border and requested asylum in the United States. In all, an estimated 5,500 children were taken from their parents and many were held in detention facilities, some of which had been constructed by the Obama administration. Over 1,000 children are still unaccounted for by the federal government. The policy ended in 2018 after massive public outcry. The zero tolerance policy is the subject of Separated, a new documentary by Academy Award–winning filmmaker Errol Morris. It has aired on MSNBC and will be available for streaming on December 17.

Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with Morris and journalist Jacob Soboroff, whose book on the controversy inspired the film. They discuss how family separation became policy and whether it acted as a deterrent, America's long and ambivalent relationship with legal and illegal immigration, and what Trump's second term will mean for immigration policy.

0:00- Introduction

2:15- Trump's 'zero-tolerance' immigration policy

5:33- Jacob Soboroff's book

9:33- Who was really behind the child separation policy?

13:09- State-created orphans and the asylum process

15:04- Immigration policies through U.S. history

18:31- American attitudes towards immigration v implemented policies

21:21- Ad: ZBiotics

23:07- Anti-immigration rhetoric escalated during the 2024 election

29:15- 'Border Czar' Tom Homan

32:15- Stephen Miller, Elaine Duke & Kirsten Nielsen

37:35- Nielsen's replacement, Kristi Noem

39:42- The Dunning-Kruger administration?

40:57- Expertise vs. disruption

44:43- How to change attitudes toward immigration

 

Previous appearances:

• "Errol Morris on Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Theranos, and Cancel Culture," November 8, 2019
• "Errol Morris on Donald Rumsfeld, The Unknown Known, and Evidence-Based Journalism," April 12, 2014

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• ZBiotics. ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by Ph.D. scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Make ZBiotics your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Get 15 percent off by going to ZBiotics/TRI and using the code TRI at checkout.

• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

Comments

[sarcasmic]

Democrats did it first, that makes it ok.

[Don't look at me!]

Ideas™ !

[VULGAR MADMAN]

More deep thoughts from drunky.

[sarcasmic]

Is that why when anyone complains about Trump separating families, his defenders attack the person claiming it's ok because they didn't complain when Obama did it? (which is false by the way, we did complain)

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

They don't have to be separated. They can chose to leave together. Now, take your phony grievance mongering and stuff it up your ass.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Look at the liberal use an appeal to emotion lol. Nothing is stopping the family from leaving together dumdum.

I'm sure you cared about all those families of J6 protestors you cheered the 5 year sentences for.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

The Democrats didn't do it first, Drunky, and that is the problem.

Instead your psychopathic party paid hundreds of billions to foreign scofflaws to become welfare leaches, in some warped cockamamie scheme to replace the electorate.

Now that Trump has to come in to clear up your lunacy and ship the scofflaws back home, you Democrats are lying about what is being done.

[sarcasmic]

Did you start drinking your maple whine early, or are you still drunk from last night?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Can't come up with an answer retard?

(Also, "maple whine"? that doesn't even make fucking sense. Not only can lefties not meme, angry alcoholic trolls can't either).

[sarcasmic]

No, I do not have an answer to arguments you make up and attribute to me. Perhaps I would answer if you'd respond to things I actually say, instead expecting me to respond to your angry and hateful rants after a breakfast of cereal and maple whine.

[Don't look at me!]

Poor sarc.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yes, pour Sarc.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

He just did. Except you’re a stupid, lying drunk.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

"No, I do not have an answer to arguments you make up and attribute to me.

You just made up and argument and attributed it to everyone here. Self-awareness is not your superpower, is it?

"if you'd respond to things I actually say"

Earlier... "Democrats did it first, that makes it ok."

Then, "hateful rants after a breakfast of cereal and maple whine"

I don't even know what you're trying to babble about, here.

[sarcasmic]

People have defended this policy by saying Obama did it first. While I'm being snarky most of the time when I say "Democrats did it first, that makes it ok", in this case people have literally said exactly that.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Really? Who? Cite?

Stop making up bullshit to defend your retarded lack of criticism of the left.

[sarcasmic]

I criticized this policy when Obama did it, as did Reason. Who knows, you might have as well. But only because he's a Democrat and you hate Democrats. I will also criticize this policy when Trump does it. You sure as hell won't. Because, unlike you, I don't decide right and wrong based solely on the politics of the person doing it.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Pour Sarc.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Notice sarc doesn't actually deny that's his argument. He just pretends it is made up while refusing to say what his actual belief is. Because it is open borders into a welfare state no matter how often he denies it.

[sarcasmic]

Oh, my. You were honest for a half a second there. It's true that I don't say what my actual beliefs are much of the time. You said something truthful there. But then you had to go and say that the reason I didn't say what I believe is because I believe what the voices in your psychotic head tell you.

I'm kind of proud of you though. You actually said something that wasn't a lie. Did it hurt? Are you ok? Did you have a recent head injury that caused that momentary lapse in mendacity?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

You don't have beliefs. You have what you heard on MSNBC or CNN the prior week. Always in flux.

Not of what you say here is intelligent or thoughtful out. 90% it is completely wrong and moronic.

Ironically you realize that which is why you get so angry when your past statements are posted word for word.

The problem is sarc, behaviors don't only have to be defined with affirmative consent. Seeing who and what you choose to criticize gives us a lot of information on your belief system. You choose to criticize one side yet lie and claim you criticize them all the time. You defend one teams narratives constantly pushing every lie while rejecting facts and information against your biases.

You see sarc, not everyone here is as stupid as you are. They don't lack your self awareness or terrible cognitive abilities. They don't flutter to whomever is giving them head pats to blindly repeat bullshit from the one giving head pats.

[sarcasmic]

You really need to take some medication for those voices in your head.

[Bananas]

Your only principle is to oppose the people you hate. So you have given up whatever principles you used to have in order to heckle anonymous people on the internet.
I actually feel sorry for you.

[Rick James]

FYI, for the last time, it's not the Democrats did it first, it's that it's standard fucking procedure.

Do you know many times I got pulled out of the line when I traveled to Canada with my daughter after my divorce? I had documentation and the Canadian border control didn't like that I was traveling alone with my daughter and subjected me to a half an hour of questions every second time I went into Canada. And now some dude shows up at the border with no documentation, no passport, no ID, traveling with a small girl and insists she's his daughter and we're supposed to just shrug and say, "Awesome, finally two people to do the work that Nick Gillespie won't do!"

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Man. Why do we have to see the same bitching by the same people in every thread every day?

[Rick James]

Commentary on Errol Morris's Elizabeth Holmes work...

The Inventor chronicles the countless high-profile people captivated and drawn under the spell of Holmes, but its handling of Errol Morris’s duping is among the most brutal to watch. Not only because he’s a famous filmmaker, but because Gibney’s decision to include frame after frame from Morris’s footage so mercilessly implicates the very idea of seeking truth. Interviewing subjects about explosive subject matter and searching for some moment of honesty are endeavors familiar to Gibney. Maybe that’s why Morris’s inability to see through the veneer of Theranos stings that much more.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

If separating families is indefensible, then we'd better shut all the prisons.

[Spiritus Mundi]

And import all the family members the illegals left behind in their home countries.

[Ron]

THIS, comit a crime and you become separated from family that is a part of the punishment and no reason why illegals should have different rights because they have a "family"

[Kungpowderfinger]

Emptytheprisons and open borders go together like bread and butter with the globohomo crowd.

[sarcasmic]

Because not having papers is equivalent to murder. Yup. Sure it.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Another retarded liberal argument from sarc lol.

Murder is the only crime people are locked up for huh? Remember cheering all those J6 convictions buddy? For parading on 60% of them?

[Michael Ejercito]

Do any of you remember Tom Fallon?

https://lbpost.com/news/crime/tom-fallon-embezzle-workers-comp/

How could it have been okay to separate him.from his family?

[Social Justice is neither]

First, you'd have to prove they're actually family and not unrelated criminal invaders. Second, we could always throw whole families in prison together if that would make the liberals happy.

[Rick James]

"Racism sells". You bet it does, Morris. Why do you think the left went full critical theory?

[Rick James]

Tangential: Kier Starmer backs away from open borders SO hard, that he's now blaming the Tories for running an "open border experiment".

Sir Keir Starmer has accused the Conservatives of using Brexit to run a “one-nation experiment in open borders” after eye-watering migration figures revealed that more than 900,000 people entered the UK in 2023.

The prime minister described the figures as “shocking” and pledged that his government would bring the numbers down with “hard graft” and by taking a tough approach with businesses.

Sir Keir made clear his view that voters had been betrayed after they were persuaded to narrowly back Brexit in 2016 with a promise that it would bring down immigration. He accused the Tories of deliberately pursuing the opposite policy.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

He's not wrong. The Tories kept crying "something must be done" as they opened the gates wider.

No coincidence that Davos educated presidents and prime ministers all across the Western world did this all at the same time.

[Rick James]

No he's not indeed. The Tories became "labor light" after Tony Blair. What makes it interesting is how Starmer is now trying to claim that Labor is suddenly the border hawks.

[Truthteller1]

Sure. Derp goes the regime cucks.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Honey! Get muh pearls! I need something to clutch!

[Matthau]

Happy to hear the arguments from these guy’s perspective.
I do wish there appeared to be the same energy that people like these two guys put into making this documentary, would also get serious about understanding why middle America feels the way it feels by ASKING them and making a documentary about that and all it nuances.

Does that sound fair?

[Uncle Jay]

Laken Reilly is unavailable for comment.

[One-Punch_Man]

Is anyone stopping the family member from leaving to? You are only separated if you aren't willing to go with the illegal person.

[Chocolatejeebus]

Oh no! The consequences of breaking into someone else's country! Consequences are indefensible now, apparently. I always hear that the dildo of consequences seldom comes lubed.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Is that a reference to JeffSarc?

[MWAocdoc]

The level of stupidity in the comments section always skyrockets when the issue is immigration.

[MWAocdoc]

To be fair, the excuse used at the time was that it was impossible to verify that the children actually belonged to the adults they were with when they arrived in the United States. Of course, the excuse falls apart rather quickly when you compare it to people arriving legally in the United States; and with measures available to prevent the abduction of children from the United States by, for example, an unauthorized parent in a custody battle. And most of the problems associated with illegal immigration, including determining the relationships of children arriving illegally, disappear almost like magic if we had a sane immigration policy. There is no evidence of any pre-existing problem with child trafficking from Latin America before the most recent crisis from crackdowns and controversial immigration policies, but never mind ...

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Define sane immigration policy. Please note the actual costs of your preferred policy. Please also understand how much fraud they commit now with even multiple paths to immigrate.

[MWAocdoc]

Sane immigration policy: allow anyone who wants to visit the United States or live here for a month or a decade into the country legally with a simple background check for previous crimes committed in the United States. Track all legal visitors while they are here and allow them to earn a living at any job they can find at any wage that is mutually agreeable. Zero fraud and zero cost compared to massive costs of attempting and failing massively to stem illegal immigration currently and forcing illegal immigrants to hide below the radar screen, easy prey for criminals.

[sarcasmic]

You're wasting your time saying that, because tomorrow Jesse will again tell you that your preferred policy is open borders and welfare. You'll respond by telling him what your preferred policy really is, and the next day he'll tell you you prefer open borders and welfare. See a pattern?

[MWAocdoc]

I don't think it's a waste of time to place on public display xenophobic frothing at the mouth which is empty of factual or logical content for others who might yet be dissuaded from joining these idiots.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You’re wasting your time trying to reason with a drunken leftist retard.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Doc is another leftist retard screaming xenophobia because he lacks intelligence.

It his go to when asked basic questions.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Look at the liberals always screaming xenophobia despite none of the arguments they are against being about foreigners or based on race. Lol.

Fucking sad and pathetic clowns.

Why do you and sarc rely on utter appeals to morality? Why not form an intelligent argument. You're a fucking moron lol.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

A recently banned commenter would often say Republicans need to agree to some level of gun control. If they don't, the eventual Democratic anti-gun crackdown will be that much more severe.

Well, maybe if Biden had been more serious about border control, voters wouldn't have put the "build a wall" guy back in the White House.

#BillionairesLikeLooseBordersButRegularFolksDont

[MWAocdoc]

Neither political party has been serious about border control at any time in the last century or so. Before Latin America, it was European Jews, Catholics, Italians, Irish, Japanese and Chinese. There is no hot button more likely to be pushed by rabid demagogues than immigration to advance their agenda and gain power.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Define serious border policy. You keep using general euphemism to criticize. In the past you have tacitly admitted to being for open borders. Which two thirds of the country does not agree with.

[MWAocdoc]

I have no intention of suffering from writer's cramp to attempt the impossible task of penetrating your massive cranium. You clearly have no intention of actually debating issues so there would be no point, although witnessing you frothing at the mouth xenophobically might be instructive for others reading these pages who might yet be swayed back away from the dark side. Also, the number of people who are wrong about immigration policy in the United States is irrelevant to the issue.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

So you will continue to make vague statements, as opposed to clarifying exactly what you want?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

So no actual intelligent arguments. Just screams of xenophobia. You're as pathetic as sarc. Two idiots that can't define their beliefs past bumper stickers.

[sarcasmic]

In the past you have tacitly admitted to being for open borders.

The fact that you never once said that making soup out of aborted fetuses is wrong means you tacitly admitted to wanting fetus soup to be a mandated part of every public school lunch.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You’ve said many times you’re for open borders. Are you now going to say that you’re not?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

No no. He just believes I'm every fact or argument for open borders into a welfare state. He just denies the term for his beliefs.

[Brett Bellmore]

Actually, they were pretty serious about border control roughly a century ago, up to about the 60's.

[Rick James]

A recently banned commenter would often say Republicans need to agree to some level of gun control. If they don't, the eventual Democratic anti-gun crackdown will be that much more severe.

I never said that...

[Dillinger]

>>President Donald Trump introduced a policy of separating parents and children

first fucking sentence has failed premise, Nick.

[Rick James]

It's true though, there were very fine people on bowf sidez.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

As if: "OK, we want to separate parents and children. How can we do that?"

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

From now on it’s NG;dr.

[Dillinger]

I made it through part of the first sentence.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

If this is Nick’s level of writing going forward, he might as well retire now.

[Nobartium]

Omegalul, MSNBC carried it first.

Here's a better system: stay out, you aren't welcome.

[The Mysterious Edwin Dunkel]

Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible

That's funny, I feel the same way about theirs.

[Bowerick Wowbagger]

Im not a fan of Trump’s rhetoric or policies on immigration, but his positions are hardly indefensible. They are pretty much run of the mill in regards to where world policies are.

[DesigNate]

Are they all that different from a regular 90’s Democrat?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Didn't the Biden regime lose like a few hundred thousand unaccompanied minors? Is that a better border policy?

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

That’s (D)ifferent.

[TJJ2000]

Ya know like when US citizens are in foreign countries and give birth so the foreign country 'owns' their children??????

Oh wait. Nope; only the Open Borders crowd follows that BS.

This is complete utter BS of kicking one's own held ideas problems down the road. There is no US Constitution provision for foreign 'born' citizenship. It's right there in the *jurisdiction thereof* exception.

[Vesicant]

Oh, well, if some miscellaneous left-wingers named Morris and Soboroff say so, who are we to argue? Everybody knows filmmakers and journalists are the best and brightest. But I do have a question: If all those 'immigrants' are simply fleeing problems in their home nations of Honduras or El Salvador or wherever, why don't they seek asylum in Mexico? No sugar teat like in the U.S.?

[Uomo Del Ghiaccio]

The reality is that we have an illegal immigration problem, have had one for many years, and has gotten much worse with the Biden regime.

To stop the unprecedented flow, there has to be tough talk. The actions that actually occur will in most probability not be the alarmists worst nightmare, but something much less.

Personally, I would like to see legal immigration fixed and illegal immigration stopped. Unfortunately, for many leftists they fail to understand the difference. There is a very clear difference and one is desired and the other not.

Illegal parents should have custody of their underage children, and we should not be separating children from their parents. The truth is that they should remain together, but not on US Soil. Apply to immigrate legally is the solution, although like every other government process it is overly complicated, expensive, and time consuming.

The answer is not be become Open Borders especially considering the expense, the strain on services, the opportunity for the criminal element to come. We want to know who is entering into the country and we want to vet them first. This being said, the legal process is in serious need of an overhaul.

Effectively, crackdown on illegal immigration and streamline the legal immigration process. Stopping all immigration is not the answer and neither is allowing all immigration.

[Peter Kreeft taught me LOGIC, BEWARE !!!!!!!]

At least we would not see unaccompanied 2 year olds

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[With Trump in, "now Lord you can let your servant go in peace"]

This is all said by people whose daughters were not raped and killed, whose apartment doors were not knocked down by hooded Tren de Aragua and then they were murdered.

I disregard just about this entire thread for its callousness.
No point to jumping on Trump if you didn't jump harder on Kamala ---AND YOU DID NOT

[With Trump in, "now Lord you can let your servant go in peace"]

The DUnning - Kruger comment is absurd in its consequences.
What he should have said ----though it amounts to the opposte !!!-- is the Peter Principle.
How can Trump be DK when that must imply that 80 million people elevated him to his level of incomptence (the Peter Principle) a mindless misuse of DK . He knows he can't oppose him substantively so he descends to psychological bullshit.

Just the other day saw someone say that this outrageous snow and coldness was caused by global warming. But if something is the cause of X and not-X (exterme cold and exterme heat) it can't be the cause of either !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At best it would be Global Osciallation and --- bear with me --- that would argue for something like the theory that this is due to solar activity