Brendan O'Neill: The West Went Insane After October 7

Brendan O’Neill discusses his new book, After the Pogrom: 7 October, Israel and the Crisis of Civilisation.

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Brendan O'Neill: The West Went Insane After October 7

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Today's guest is Brendan O'Neill, chief political writer for Spiked and the author of the bracing new book, After the Pogrom: 7 October, Israel and the Crisis of Civilisation.

O'Neill and Reason's Nick Gillespie talk about the response in the United Kingdom and the United States to Hamas' attacks last year, Israel's ongoing military actions, and what's likely to come next in a postwoke world. "On October 7," says O'Neill, "the progressive left went from 'believe women' to 'believe fascists.' They took Hamas at its word over the testimonies of raped women."

They also discuss whether O'Neill's politics have changed over the years. At the start of his career a quarter-century ago, he was an unapologetic man of the left—a self-declared Trotskyist, in fact. But these days he seems to make more common cause with conservatives and libertarians. "My rallying cry remains the same," O'Neill insists. "Increase the power of man over nature and decrease the power of man over man."

0:00- Introduction

1:16- O'Neill's new book: "After The Pogrom"

5:48- Hamas is religious extremist movement

11:10- Islamism as extreme rejection of modernity

16:57- Is being anti-Zionist punk?

18:40- The 'cultural appropriation' of the Keffiyeh

21:17- Is Israel a white settler-colonialist state?

24:28- When did the left turn against Israel?

28:53- Is antisemitism connected to anti-capitalism?

32:30- The demonization of Israel

33:40- Palestine as the Omni-cause

35:34- The madness of Queers for Palestine

39:29- The catastrophe of post-Oct. 7 progressivism

43:34- Did Oct. 7 accelerate the collapse of wokeness?

46:40- How much should the west be supporting Israel's war effort?

51:28- O'Neill's political evolution

53:21- How gay liberation differed from the trans movement

58:22- Today's young activists seek institutional approval

1:00:50- How Marxism & Trotsky influenced O'Neill

1:04:14- Critics of Zionism in 1930s-40s Europe

 

Previous appearances:

"A Heretic's Manifesto: Spiked's leading polemicist defends J.K. Rowling, Brexit, and Enlightenment values of free speech and pluralism," June 21, 2023

"'The Real Threat to Free Speech Now Is Conformism and Cowardice': Spiked's Brendan O'Neill on free expression, environmentalism as 'an apology for poverty,' and why he is 'a Marxist libertarian,'" December 23, 2015

• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

Comments

[Rick James]

Wow, after the "her penis" debacle, I didn't think he'd be asked back.

[Rick James]

24:28- When did the left turn against Israel?

Started in the 1960s.

28:53- Is antisemitism connected to anti-capitalism?

Tends to be.

35:34- The madness of Queers for Palestine

Her penis, bruh.

43:34- Did Oct. 7 accelerate the collapse of wokeness?

Her penis, bruh.

51:28- O'Neill's political evolution

Last time he was asked this, he said, "I didn't leave the left, the left left me." I'll be curious to see what his answer is today.

53:21- How gay liberation differed from the trans movement

Oh let me count the ways...

[Rick James]

53:21- How gay liberation differed from the trans movement

Oh let me count the ways...

They're not just 'differing', they're entirely different movements, so different, in fact, many gay people argue that 'T' doesn't even belong in the LGBTQI2MAP+ alphabet soup.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

It's right there on the keyboard! LGBTQWERTY even shows it twice!

[Rob Misek]

This video proves that Israel, funded, coordinated and enabled the October 7 attacks.

https://richardgage911.substack.com/p/new-documentary-on-gaza-october-7

It shows that Israel opened the gate to welcome trucks carrying Hamas through the wall.

It shows how Israel not only ignored repeated warnings from their many surveillance sources but withdrew all defences from the wall and emptied their military bases just hours before the attack

It shows that Israel didn’t respond to the incursion for more than 6 hours. Allowing the few Hamas attackers free access to concert goers, kibbutz members and young women IDF surveillance operators.

It shows and proves that after that 6 hour window the IDF attacked the concert goers and the kibbutz’s with Apache helicopters and tanks to blame Hamas.

It shows that Netanyahu sacrificed dozens of IDF forces to blame Hamas.

It shows that only handfuls of Hamas soldiers wandered for hours through the evacuated areas looking for soldiers to fight but finding none.

It shows that the hostages that were taken by Hamas said they were treated well.

It shows that Israel/Netanyahu has funded Hamas with billions in cash in suitcases in the backs of cars for many years.

With all this evidence you’d have to be a willfully ignorant idiot or lying Kol Nidre boy not to recognize it as an inside job.

This is what Jews have brought with them everywhere they’ve ever lived throughout history.

No civilization can exist with a business model of lying.

When the liars agenda and evil practices are exposed, they are hated and persecuted.

Queue the violins, “the pooor persecuted Jews” who are right now committing a holocaust in Gaza with warrants for their leaders arrest.

[Commenter_XY]

Go join your hamas homies in gaza, dirtbag.

[Rob Misek]

Don’t you mean YOUR Hamas homies who your criminal homie Netanyahu sneakily gave billions in untraceable cash in suitcases in the backs of cars for years before October 7.

I never gave Hamas billions in cash.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Refuted.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Refuted.

[Social Justice is neither]

After you get beyond the B it is all entirely different. They are no longer sexual orientations but kinks, mental disorders and a collection of utterly superfluous and often nonsensical intra-category slices within gay/straight/bi.

[Zeb]

I don't know why the LGBs put up with that shit (I know many don't, but a lot seem to go along just to be nice and supportive I guess). Their interests really don't overlap at this point.

[Vernon Depner]

It's worse than that. Transgenderism is a genocide against homosexual kids. It's mostly gay kids who are being "transitioned".

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Her Penis Bruh could be a good band name.

[Minadin]

Did I miss the 'her penis' debacle?

[Dillinger]

the weirdest parties I've attended didn't achieve her penis debacle

[Dillinger]

>>Is being anti-Zionist punk?

I dunno ask Jello Biafra

[mtrueman]

The West may have gone insane after Oct. 7th, but the Western Left came to its senses.

Probably the biggest divide between the Western Left and the global south comes in the issue of identity politics - questions of gender, race etc. The West has embraced these issues, which is not the case elsewhere. Uganda, for example, has recently made acts of homosexuality a capital crime. After Oct. 7, the Western Left re-ordered their priorities so that anti-colonialism came first and foremost and other issues were back burnered. Hence the movement of 'Queers for Palestine.' The Left adapted to changing developments in other words. The mainstream West, the uniparty in the US and Europe continue to carry on as though nothing changed on Oct. 7. Only the money and lies keep flowing at an even greater pace. Money and lies are no treatment for insanity.

[Commenter_XY]

misconstrueman, you're a leftist, antisemitic POS.

Fortunately, your sick and immoral view has been rejected by the electorate, and your hamas friends are going to die, one by one, being hunted down like the human animals they are. Go join them.

[mtrueman]

"misconstrueman, you're a leftist, antisemitic POS. "

A good example of the insanity of the mainstream West. Support for the Palestinian is routinely and unthinkingly smeared as antisemitic even though the Palestinians are Semitic through and through, even more so than Israelis like Netanyahoo who come from European stock. Oct. 7th did nothing to cure Commenter_XY of his insane determination to repeat Zionist lies.

[Marshal]

Support for the Palestinian is routinely and unthinkingly smeared as antisemitic

Note the sleight of hand where he pretends his antisemitism is merely support for Palestinians. In reality he explicitly stated he does not care about the Jewish civilians murdered by Palestinians. Anyone demonstrating this level of indifference while crying so intently about Palestinians has proven their antisemitism.

even though the Palestinians are Semitic through and through,
More word games. The term antisemitism was created to describe Jew-hatred. Whether Palestinians are Semites or not has no bearing on the issues. It's an embarrassingly juvenile distraction technique.

[mtrueman]

"Note the sleight of hand where he pretends his antisemitism is merely support for Palestinians. "

I have nothing against Semites, I promise you. In these pages I've supported the Palestinians over and over again. I support the occupied, the underdogs, those seeking justice and dignity over those commit heinous crimes to deny justice. There's no reason for me to apologize for this.

"The term antisemitism was created to describe Jew-hatred"

If you mean hatred of Jews, say so. Your muddled thinking isn't helped by your muddled words. I have nothing against Jews. It's zionism I don't like. It's the colonialism, stew pot.

Have you got any other cards to play? The antisemitism card doesn't work. And no, joining in with a chorus of other idiots repeating it endlessly doesn't make your 'argument' any more convincing.

The fact remains that the West and the Rest are divided over issues of identity politics. But since Oct. 7th they have been brought closer as priorities shifted and anticolonialism has come to the fore. You haven't denied this but focused on inane charges of antisemitism. You're shooting blanks, reloading, and shooting more blanks.

[Marshal]

The antisemitism card doesn't work.

It doesn't work with you because your entire movement is antisemitic, but then my words aren't for you.

I have nothing against Jews.

Dead ones anyway.

It's zionism I don't like. It's the colonialism,

If this were true you would be able to explain why Jewish immigration to Israel is wrong but Muslim immigration to Europe and North America are fine.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Trying to make sense would help whatever your argument is, if you even have one. Were you Kamala's speech writer?

[mtrueman]

"Trying to make sense would help whatever your argument is"

It's not really an argument. I'm pointing out that Oct. 7th caused the Western left to put aside identity politics and prioritize anticolonialism which is more in line with Palestine and the global south in general. A move to international solidarity is absolutely essential if the Left is to have any success.

"Were you Kamala's speech writer?"

No, I was not. Harris has no interest in anticolonialism, No more than Trump, Biden, or you.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Is that what you claim your word salad was all about? I figured it could have been anything.

[mtrueman]

"Is that what you claim your word salad was all about? "

Yes. That is what I claim.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

The left has been pro "palestinain" since the 1960's.

[mtrueman]

I don't dispute that. The point I am making is that the Left in the West has been increasingly in thrall to identity politics since around the same time, while the global south has eschewed identity politics and continues to do so. Oct. 7th has brought the Western Left much closer to their brothers and sisters of the global south by prioritizing issues of anticolonialism.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Before 10/7: Leftists are in thrall to identity politics, and support Hamas, even though Hamas would kill them if they could.

After 10/7: Leftists are in thrall to identity politics, and support Hamas, even though Hamas would kill them if they could.

[mtrueman]

Both Leftists and Hamas are anticolonialist. I don't know why this poses such a problem for you. Are you insane? Having trouble accepting reality?

[Zeb]

Dude, Arabs are some of the nastiest colonialists and empire builders ever. The whole point of Islam is to subjugate the whole world under their belief system.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

trueman neglects the ottoman empire. Or he thinks colonialism is fine when his side does it.

[mtrueman]

"Arabs are some of the nastiest colonialists "

Palestinians are fighting colonialists in Gaza. Have been since Oct. 7th. Too insane to notice?

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

No, they’re not. They’re underfoot, as Hamas, who they support, is paying the price for what they did.

Case closed.

[mtrueman]

Palestinians are indeed fighting Israeli colonialists in Gaza. And have been since Oct. 7th. Your denial is just another symptom of the insanity that O'Neill has identified.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

I'm pointing out that Oct. 7th caused the Western left to put aside identity politics

The left has not put aside identity politics.

[mtrueman]

"The left has not put aside identity politics."

The Left of the global south never really took it up in the first place. Identity politics is more a thing of the West. Western Leftists have put the issue on the back burner and prioritized anticolonialism, which they share with the global south. You will see that if only you'd trouble to look at the composition of the demonstrations. Identity politics not been put aside, but de-prioritized. Western Rightists like yourself still put identity politics front and center. For you the conflict since Oct.7th is about the threat of Islam and hatred of Jews, ignoring reality. That's why it's insane.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Misconstrueman lives up to his name, with this little shell game:

The topic is Oct 7th.
Uganda, of all places, now puts gays to death.
Therefore, the left has adapted to changing developments.

But the "palestinians" have always killed gays, including Hamas's own commanders. So there's no fucking change by the left. You guys have always been supporters of the same sick shit.

[mtrueman]

"But the "palestinians" have always killed gays, including Hamas's own commanders. So there's no fucking change by the left. You guys have always been supporters of the same sick shit."

Killing gays is not unique to Uganda, the global south, or even the West. Western Leftists have put aside their objections to this sort of criminal illiberalism and focused on anticolonialism which they share with groups like Hamas which are conservative fundamentalist Islamists.

" You guys have always been supporters of the same sick shit."

Of course we have always been anticolonialist at heart, It was Oct. 7th that brought the issue to the forefront, ahead of issues of identity politics like gender and race. Don't believe me? Take at look at the composition of the Palestinian demonstrations in your neck of the woods. You're likely to find Jews, Queers, Muslims and normal people marching together, arm in arm, under banners of Palestinian solidarity. It's only your insanity that's preventing you from digging what's going down here, man,

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

So, the change after 10/7 was the same sick fucks who already supported slaughtering jews continued to support it.

This is not a change.

[mtrueman]

The change is Western Leftists putting anticolonialism as a priority over identity politics. That happened after Oct. 7th.

"same sick fucks who already supported slaughtering jews continued to support it"

To be fair, they will support the slaughter of goyim who advocate apartheid, starvation, genocide, torture, collective punishment, forced population transfer and other zionist crimes. Don't think your nihilism will protect you.

[Zeb]

Why is anticolonialism necessarily a good to be pursued? You can't undo the past. Shouldn't we consider what will actually make people's lives better in the future? Anti-colonialists like Hamas don't seem to be doing much to make life less miserable for anyone.

[mtrueman]

"Why is anticolonialism necessarily a good to be pursued? "

Are you American? You really need to ask me? It's about self determination.

"Anti-colonialists like Hamas don't seem to be doing much to make life less miserable for anyone."

Sometimes it's necessary to make sacrifices to see that justice is done. It's not an attitude that Libertarians put any stock in, but the Americans of 1776 certainly understood it.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

apartheid, starvation, genocide, torture, collective punishment, forced population transfer and other zionist Hamas crimes

Fixed your bullshit for you.

[mtrueman]

Bertram Guilfoyle, insane since Oct. 7th.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Awwww.

[Commenter_XY]

Yet you support the palestinians who throw gay men off rooftops, and hang their bodies from cranes, so the vultures eat their flesh. And you are evidently good with persecuting trannies, too.

Just shows that antisemites are pathetic, lying hypocritical POS.

[mtrueman]

No, I do not support the palestinians or anyone else who throw gay men off rooftops. We are both Westerners and find such crimes abhorrent. Where we differ is our attitude toward colonialism. I'm against it, you're for it. I oppose apartheid, starvation, genocide, torture, collective punishment, forced population transfer and other zionist crimes, you support it. That's where we differ. As Westerners we agree to oppose ill treatment of gays, women, blacks, religious minorities and anyone else who isn't normal.

For me it's a matter of priorities, as I've stated repeatedly. I urge you to read my comments if you want to understand. I'll answer any questions you have.

"Just shows that antisemites are pathetic"

Again, I don't get the feeling you know what a Semite is. Or antisemite, either.

[Think It Through]

identity politics - questions of gender, race etc. The West has embraced these issues

Who has? I haven't. All rational people I know haven't. I guess a lot of insane leftists have.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Okay, who's the person at reason that left the door open and let in a libritarian? Daddy Koch will be angry

[Kungpowderfinger]

1. Towelheads hate the west
2. We hate the west
2. The towelheads must be our friends

Leftist logic, it’s that simple

[mtrueman]

" it’s that simple"

It is that simple. The insanity comes in with people who refuse to accept the reality of it.

[Zeb]

Sometimes spouting bullshit is an end in itself. Right, buddy?

[mtrueman]

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's a way to make a point. Just ask if you're confused. Fact remains that identity politics doesn't inspire people of the global south as it does in the West. And until Oct. 7th, anticolonialism didn't inspire Western Leftists as much as it did the global south. That changed, whether or not you want to acknowledge this reality could be a measure of your sanity.

[JFree]

21:17 Is Israel a white settler-colonialist state?

The question and answer here are complete twaddle. Gillespie citing 'Exodus' as evidence of anything other than he's an idiot who buys propaganda. O'Neill pretending that it was 'the independence struggle' against the Brits - where the Brits are the colonizer and Ashkenaz are the colonized - that was the main element in creating Israel (vs say Zionism). A strawman redefinition of 'white supremacism' as if the issue is between Ashkenaz (the only 'whites' or 'Europeans' and also the only original Zionists) v everyone else (who all - including Sephardim/Mizrahi - identified culturally as Arab Jews not Zionist). The notion that it was Arabs who 'expelled' the Jews who lived there as opposed to the reality that it was EUROPE who 'expelled' the Jews who lived there - most of whom came to the US, many of whom went to Israel as part of the Zionist (meaning romanticized ethnonational) aspiration of Ashkenaz who were NOT accepted as 'white' by Europeans. Nor are they accepted as 'white' by the Charlottesville MAGAMises commentariat here - but that crowd strongly supports the ethnonationalism of Israel - just as they support ethnonational restriction on immigration here to the US. Arab Jews went to Israel mostly via Mossad operations not Arab govt expulsions.

Worst of all - the completely ludicrous notion by Oneill that 'the Jewish people have a profoundly legitimate claim to that part of the world. They fought for their independence from the British. And they've demonstrated that they are more than capable of governing in that part of the world.'

Ignoring the last sentence (a different set of issues which deserves its own argument), that just shows how stupid we have become. Making legal claims to land on the basis of 2000+ year old books is total insanity that was invented not by those old texts but by 19th century people. Doesn't surprise me that various Europeans who feel guilty about one thing or the other re their own treatment of Ashkenaz Jews over the centuries will pawn that off and stick that responsibility on Palestinians to recognize land claims from 2000+ years ago.

The US should have gone beyond that. Even with our own colonial-settler history. Jefferson wrote - I set out on this ground, which I suppose to be self evident, ‘that the earth belongs in usufruct to the living’ that the dead have neither powers nor rights over it.. 2000 year old 'claims' by the dead are worse than fucking meaningless. They are the dead taking from the living.

[Rick James]

I just find it fascinating how the left occasionally rediscovers borders, cultural claims and that the "free movement of people" sometimes results in some nasty outcomes.

[Peter Kreeft taught me LOGIC, BEWARE !!!!!!!]

But they don't result 'of necessity' so your own point is what you are arguing against.
3 thigns
1) There is no perfect solution. ANY view will have nasty outcomes.
2) If a thing is right and moral and rational , it is immoral to retroactively call it evil just because of an outcome that depends on many many uncontrollable factors
3) IF we are always discovering and re-discovering and forgetting, then there are practically speaking no First Principles, no absolutes, no culture.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM Are "all men are created equal" -- is that true or not.

[Rick James]

After the "pogrome"? How did Gillespie pronounce pogrom?

[Rick James]

Hey Nick, perennial mask-wearer, Taylor Lorenz quit the Washington Post to go Influence full-time! Translation: She's unemployed and looking!

[Peter Kreeft taught me LOGIC, BEWARE !!!!!!!]

Okay, when you say 'moral failure' what do you actually mean?
Is it a statement that "all men are created equal" is true and that we must reject the voluntarism and nominalism and utter rejection of human rights that Islam represents ?
I would think that if one thing remains core to the entire West it is the idea of the LOGOS, that God and the universe are rational.
But you never say anything like that. Israel even when odious holds the right view and its enemies even when not odious hold the wrong view.
Go ahead ! Say it out loud : There is a right and there is a wrong.
To declare that your life's mission is the obliteration of Israel makes a nation)s) the enemy of mankind.

[Rob Misek]

If Palestinians, who Israel is murdering in a holocaust right now, were actually Jews mortal enemy, why did your criminal homie Netanyahu sneakily give Hamas billions in untraceable cash in suitcases in the backs of cars for years before October 7?

Seems like an odd way to treat your enemy. What Jewish lie could possibly logically explain it?

Payoffs to control the Hamas military, control the narrative and plan and implement October 7.

[LIBtranslator]

Nuclear reactors are the safest and least expensive generators. Communist countries do not want their adversaries to have that, so getting rid of American nuclear energy became a Democratic plank. Hamas attacked and kidnapped a country communists dislike. So, licking the rouge off of Hamas rapists' curly shoes became Job One for the Democratic Party. I wish none of this were true, but ever since the Nixon-Humphrey-Wallace race, communist control over the entire Democratic Party is as good an explanation as Nazi Klavern control over God's Own Prohibitionists.

[Vesicant]

>Increase the power of man over nature and decrease the power of man over man

Just like a lubbertarian to get it backwards.