What's the Root Cause of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?
Eli Lake of The Free Press debates author Jeremy Hammond at The Soho Forum.
Reporter and podcaster Eli Lake and author Jeremy Hammond debated the resolution, "The root cause of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the Palestinians' rejection of Israel's right to exist."
Taking the affirmative is Lake, the former senior national security correspondent for The Daily Beast and Newsweek. He is currently a reporter at The Free Press and host of The Re-Education podcast. He has also contributed to CNN, Fox News, C-SPAN, Charlie Rose, the I Am Rapaport: Stereo Podcast, and Bloggingheads.tv.
Hammond, an independent journalist and author, takes the negative. He is the author of several books, including Obstacle to Peace: The US Role in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
- Video and Audio Editing: John Osterhoudt
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Palestinians.
Palestine was every Zionists wet dream since the late 1800s.
When WW1 was close to completion in 1916 rich global Zionists, who had been more accepted in Germany than anywhere else, made a deal with Britain to bring the antiwar US into the war in exchange for the promise of Palestine via the Balfour Declaration.
That stab in the back and the resulting suffering in German from the treaty of Versailles gave rise to anti Jewish sentiment and with it Nazism.
Once again global Zionists boycotted all German trade, promising to bring another world war to Germany successfully resulting in WW2.
Meanwhile Zionists had claimed that Jews were the victims of genocide holocausts in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945. To raise money like liars on go fund me websites do today.
In 1948 with allied weapons and support Jews declared the apartheid state of Israel beginning the Middle East conflict. They have occupied and terrorized Palestinians for the last 76 years with more US weaponry and aid than any other nation.
Now Jews are on trial in the international court of justice for committing genocide in Gaza. They promised to and have actually slaughtered over 20,000 non combatant Palestinian women and children.
That is the story of Palestine and Israel.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Not only did Jews have a presence in what’s called The Holy Land since after The Diaspora with the Roman destruction of The Temple in Jerusalem, (it wasn’t a complete dispersal of the Jewish people,) but the Hebrew Israelite Jews were originally a separate group of Caananites who came there from another part of Caanan in the 1200s BCE, and not from captivity in Egypt.
Hence, the Jews were always in the region. Also, there is no archeological or anthropological evidence that the Israelites massacred Amelekites or anyone else to get the land.
Fuck Off, Nazi!
Read these two books:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/019513088X/reasonmagazinea-20/
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0199731691/reasonmagazinea-20/
Lose your antisemitism and repent.
Wrong, they came from Egypt.
AND they were always in the region too.
This is the present state of a large part of the scholarship.
Think what you imply
All the takeover accounts are just fabrications
There is no Hebrew kinship either (remember they were also Hebrews and that is the connection with those who stayed in Canaan)
And if we take your route we get MORE lawless. The law gave the land rightly or wrongly to the Jews and if you have a complaint it is with the Balfour Declaration or the UN
Creating an Eastern European Country based on German Nationalism of the mid 19th century in an Arab land based on some questionable appeal to “God” was probably not a great idea to start with. I think the US State Dept felt this way when we had some Catholics and other Christians actually running US foreign policy.
You.
Are.
Also.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
One, the Zionist movement founded by Theodor Hertzl wàs a Secular movement founded by largely Secular Jews. “Zionism” has an entire entry in The Encyclopedia of Unbelief Edited by Gordon Stein. Any good library should have the two-volume set or can get it via Inter-Library Loan.
Two, so you’re actually saying the the Catholic/Christian appeal to “God” is better than anyone else’s equally bogus claim to support from a nonexistent Supernatural being? That it would have been better if The Deus Vult Crusaders still ran the so-called The Holy Land? Cite?
Fuck Off, Pope Worshipper!
Chaing the subject? So, Zionism was a secular and largely socialist movement. Ok..then why Palestine? How often the pro Israeli folks including evangelicals claim God gave Israel the land. Which it sounds like you disagree with. As for my point on Catholic, you missed the point. Our foreign policy elites to a great extent today are overrepresented by people who have personal affections towards Israel. Having better representation by people who have no “past” with say Ukraine or the Israel is a good thing as duel citizens of any kind shouldn’t be overrepresented in running policy with regards to the other country. I don’t care if they are from Germany, Italy, France, India or China.
If you want peace Israel needs to leave all occupied lands per the 67 war. With serious ramifications of the Palestinians Govt if they attack. Or you have permanent occupation which historically eventually the occupiers are ejected (Afghanistan, Vietnam..ect.)
In the end peace for Jews, Christians and Muslims would be a good thing..
My support for Israel, unlike your opposition to Israel, is not based on religion or belief in a God. My support for Israel is because it is a multi-party parliamentary form of government which can be made closer to Libertarian than the Dictatorships, Monarchies, and Theocracies of it’s Arab/Islamic enemies.
Duel citizens are perfectly legal under U.S. Immigration Law as long as the U.S. is not Constitutionally at war with the other nation. Since Vatican City is recognized by the U.S. as a sovereign power, (which it shouldn’t under Amendment 1, but anyway) it wouldn’t be surprising if there were duel citizens of the U.S. and Vatican City.
I wouldn’t object to Israel giving up Occupied Territories if they weren’t attacksd moments afterward, but we know thst’s simply not happening.
I know peace would be a good thing, but as long as Israel’s neighbors continue to support Israel’s destruction, that’s not happening either.
You can’t even get your history correct–many in Herzl’s movement were religious–the Zionists had both secular and religious people that wanted a Jewish state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Zionism
This group of men considered as proto-Zionists includes Rabbi Judah Bibas (1789–1852), Rabbi Judah ben Solomon Hai Alkalai (1798–1878), Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Kalischer (1795–1874), and philosopher Moses Hess (1812–1875).
“Proto-” means “preceding the proper beginning,” in this case, the proper beginning provided by Herzl.
Proto
https://www.wordnik.com/words/proto
And in any event, there is no good thing thatca Believer can do that an Unbeliever cannot.
Oh, and I still don’t repent for calling mad.casual a “Rain Man fart breath,” though the admonishment was quaint.
Uh oh. Fart. (Rain Man)
https://youtu.be/F3dRH9RMZDY?si=LVi0kabkhzGFmDHx
🙂
😉
Always you show no command of facts. I might show my class your childish reasoning ,which must be either faith or reason, unknown to you !!!
IF it is reasonable that there is no God , show us.
And if it isn’t and that is just your faith , why is your faith superior.
But you never analyze what you say.
BTW the history of Western Civilization is that knowledge of a CREATOR is logical. You always confuse the two, the Creator and a religious revelation. But that suits your terror about actually arguing your point.
One final annoying thing about your attempt to speak for all other folks
The PEW survey of atheism showed that
” 23% say they do believe in a higher power of some kind,”
Palestinian Arabs in particular, Arab-Muslims in general, yes.
Survey says! The #1 answer on the board.
An overturned game of chess leading to an argument between an Imam and Rabbi circa 1500.
As good a reason as any – – – – – –
Zionism. Duh.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Also.
There are two short answer to that question:
– Jew-hatred
– Islam
Islam is of course the root cause inasmuch it is an all-encompassing tyrannical ideology that doesn’t accept anything that is not itself: it either destroys all others, or enslaves them. Anything other than these are just steps to reach either of these goals.
Since Islam is a bastardized fanfic of Judaism, the original monotheism of the region, they hate Jews more than any other ethnic or religious group. In fact, Islam is one of the main reason why Jew-hatred became the no.1 type of hatred on this planet.
There’s also the concept of Dar-al-Islam which pretty much states that “any land that had ever belonged to Allah will belong to the him for all eternity”. Ironically, this includes half of Europe, and we have seen this on ISIS’s map which planned to take over (first) all former Islamic lands, and of course, everything else afterwards.
That’s why there’s no “palatable” solution to this conflict. You cannot reason with Islam, you cannot negotiate with Islam, you can only persist beside Islam, or destroy it altogether… just as the West destroyed Nazism or Japanese fanaticism in WW2. (Note: Palestinian Arabs are literally worse than Nazis, yet they also contain the same level of fanaticism that we have only seen in Japanese kamikaze. They’re the worst concoction imaginable, the worst group of people in all history.)
Fuck you!
Jew hatred isn’t why Jews are committing a genocide.
“Hatred” does seem to follow Jews EVERYWHERE they go, throughout history.
Fuckwit Jews don’t get it. Nobody gives a damn that you think you’re “gods chosen people”. Your religion advocates lying.
The facts demonstrate that you’re genocidal terrorists.
“…Jew hatred isn’t why Jews are committing a genocide…”
Which they are not, Nazi shit.
Yet If I disagree with you , you want to kil me.
That is you on a billboard 🙂
This is accurate. I’m not going to read what it wrote, of course, but I presume Misek the Nazi did not concur with you.
Hahaha
Fucking bigot admits it doesn’t consider counter arguments.
Accused Jews of committing genocide again. Woefully droll, to be totally honest.
Yes, he’s clinically insane so of course he just keeps spouting his Nazi nonsense. Misconstrueman is similar, albeit with a different style. He’s just as much of a Jew-hater as Misek is.
*DING! DING! DING! DING!*
Winner, Winner! Chicken Soup Dinner!
🙂
😉
It’s even worse than you describe. Islam also thinks all human beings are born in a state of Islam (submission to Allah) and that unless raised in Islam, humans become Kuffir (“Unbelievers”) by a process of forgetting.
Hence, by wanting the whole Planet under Islam, Muslims are not only in a state of perpetual childhood, but they want to drag everybody else back to that state as well!
Islam is the worldview of Totalitarian Boss Babies!
The irony is ISIS never needed to plan some hostile takeover of Europe–the Eurocuck Soros/Schwab thralls are doing a great job of making it happen all by themselves by encouraging mass third world migration to the continent.
ISIS’ mistake was not calling themselves “refugees” back in 2014 and waltzing in to Europe along with everyone else being displaced.
Root cause in one sentence: The international community’s decision that non Jews in the holy land should pay the price for the crimes Westerners committed against Jews in WWII.
Of course, misconstrueman managed to misconstrue the entire history of the conflict, lying through his teeth, omitting such well-know facts as:
– Muslims had been killing Jews and other non-Muslims since the founding of their totalitarian ideology
– The international community’s unanimous decision to allow the indigenous Jews to re-establish their sovereignty over their ancestral homeland was DECADES before WW2. The Balfour Declaration was 1917, the San Remo Conference was 1920, the League of Nations decision for Mandatory Palestine was 1922.
– No, the international community didn’t want anyone to “pay the price” of the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty, in fact it was the exact opposite: Jews were buying largely uninhabitable land in pre-state Israel from absentee landlords mostly. They literally had and still have the fund to buy and conserve lands in Israel through the JNF, which often resorted to crowdfunding by asking for small donations from individual Jews. Jews also brought expertise, medicine, infrastructure, agriculture, and every other instrument of civilization to that desolate land. Which is yet another important fact, since Jewish presence in the land restored the economy over there which was obviously beneficial to the Arabs too, to the point where Arabs started to illegally immigrate to the land for new opportunities.
– Lastly, even if what you said were true, and it is not, it wouldn’t have much explanatory power. Why would Arabs still be killing Jews in 2023 because of something that happened in 1922? Of course, the answer is Islam. There are various different ethnic and religious conflict all around the world, yet none of it as irrational as the Islamic desire to destroy all Jews and Israel. You want certain past decisions to serve as an excuse for the Arabs’ fundamentalist behavior, but this simply does not make any sense. No, Jews building farms on former swamp lands does NOT constitute as an excuse for Arabs to keep massacring Jews 100 years after the fact. That’s such a blatantly ridiculous supposition that only retarded Jew-haters can make it. Add to that the fact that Arab-Muslims are invaders and conquerors everywhere outside of Arabia, meaning that they’re certainly not in any position to complain about conquest, even if it did take place (and it didn’t). Lastly, let’s check out the numbers: Jews rule over some 0.6% of the entire ME, where Arabs rule over the other 99.4% landmass. No reasonable person would ever claim that “Arabs doesn’t have enough land” and therefore “it is understandable that they are willing to die for even more land”. The population density of Jordan is 1/4th that of Israel’s. Clearly, if they cared about reason then they would have already resettled in “Arab Palestine” which is of course (Trans)jordan, as it was the landmass that was cut off from the original Mandate of Palestine to accommodate Arabs. The rest, the remaining land of Mandatory Palestine – which was some 21% of the original – was allotted to the Jews.
Now do that in one sentence.
Muslim Arabs spent well over a millennium treating Jews as third-class citizens or worse, committing pogroms, stealing their property, in places ethnically cleansing thhem, so it was not unreasonable and certainly morally fair for Jews to seek a homeland free of Muslim Arab oppression in a small corner of the Middle East that was not only our traditional homeland but where we’d maintained a continuous existence for at least 2,000 years; but the Muslim Arabs are unable to tolerate the new status of Jews distinct from the oppressed communities that Muslim Arabs were used to and probably deemed a legitimate imposition by Allah himself.
“Muslim Arabs spent well over a millennium treating Jews as third-class citizens or worse, committing pogroms, stealing their property, in places ethnically cleansing thhem”
Don’t you mean Christians? Aren’t you familiar with European history, even fairly recent history? If Jews were so mistreated by Muslim Arabs, why did they flee Europe in droves to make a home there, in Israel, among hundreds of millions of people whom you claim desired nothing more than to murder and enslave them?
“but the Muslim Arabs are unable to tolerate the new status of Jews distinct from the oppressed communities that Muslim Arabs were used to and probably deemed a legitimate imposition by Allah himself.”
I’ve heard it all before. Jews are the victims. The true, original and righteous victims. This status as permanent victim means any atrocities perpetrated by Jews against non Jews is perfectly justified and sanctified by god. I don’t buy it. Say what you want about the Nazis, but at least they cultivated a strong self image
I am familiar with the history of Jews in Christian lands. I am also familiar with the history of Jews in Muslim Arab lands, You’re not.
” I am also familiar with the history of Jews in Muslim Arab lands, You’re not.”
Please explain why the Jews of Europe preferred to live among Muslims over staying put among Christians. What was it about Muslim pogroms, ethnic cleansing, property theft and intolerance that European Jews found so attractive? More opportunities to revel in victimhood?
not only our traditional homeland but where we’d maintained a continuous existence for at least 2,000 years;
We can argue until the sun goes supernovae about which group has the ‘most valid claim’ from 2000 years ago. Genetically – the Samaritans (another ethnoreligion) have the best claim to ‘ancient Israel’ DNA. The various Xian groups (Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, etc) are second. The Druze (another ethnoreligion) are third. The various Sunni Muslims from southern Levant are fourth. The fifth are Iraqi Jews slightly ahead of pretty much all ethnicities grouped within 5000 miles.
Course I’m more a fan of Thomas Jefferson’s way of settling land claims:
The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water. Yet it is a question of such consequences as not only to merit decision, but place also, among the fundamental principles of every government. The course of reflection in which we are immersed here on the elementary principles of society has presented this question to my mind; and that no such obligation can be transmitted I think very capable of proof. I set out on this ground which I suppose to be self evident, “that the earth belongs in usufruct to the living;” that the dead have neither powers nor rights over it. The portion occupied by an individual ceases to be his when himself ceases to be, and reverts to the society.
the Muslim Arabs are unable to tolerate the new status of Jews distinct from the oppressed communities that Muslim Arabs were used to and probably deemed a legitimate imposition by Allah himself
What do you mean by ‘new status of Jews’? Do you mean the land that HaShem himself set aside for the exclusive use of rabbinic Judaism where the PM is now talking about Amalek? There has been no movement within Zionism for a multicultural ‘Israel/Palestine/Mandate’ since the Biltmore conference. And I’m pretty certain that the US is the only other country in the world that sees our mission as perpetuating and advancing a 3000 year old land feud over ethnicity 6000 miles from the US.
I’m pretty certain you’re a long-winded, antisemitic shit pile.
LOL, you’re not going to go up in flames if you type out “Christian,” dude.
Hey I gotta balance between being terse and pithy or being fully explanatory.
No. Read it all or shut your antisemitic drivel.
Yes, that is so, that person almost never has facts
the book
Icon of Evil: Hitler’s Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam
confutes everything he bases his stance on
“In 1921, the beneficiary of an appointment the British would live to regret, Haj Amin al-Husseini became the mufti of Jerusalem, the most eminent and influential Islamic leader in the Middle East. For years, al-Husseini fomented violence in the region against the Jews he loathed and wished to destroy. Forced out in 1937, he eventually found his way to the country whose legions he desperately wished to join: Nazi Germany.”
Israel has non-Jews of all faiths and none of many “ethnic” backgrounds, including Muslims and Arabs and all are equal citizens.
Fuck Off, Watermelon Rickshaw Nazi Boy! And savor the flavor while it lasts!
actually that is the one answer that can be shown to be silly.
You pit the ‘international community’ against non-Jews in the Holy Land
That is easil a 1000-to-1 disagreement on principle with your premise !!!
So the whole world isstupid except you. See a doctor
Don’t overthink it, Gene.
Careful with that ax, Eugene.
And I’m looking for the Purple Banana whether or not the truck arrives and the flaming truck will make a great Bananas Foster!
THE UN and the whole world knows it.
Ragheads
Root cause: Muslim Arabs accept only two statuses for Jews in the Middle East – subservient or dead.
Benny Morris: https://quillette.com/2024/02/27/the-nyt-misrepresents-the-history-of-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict/
Arab refusal to accept that Jews would be among the various ethnic groups to have their own nations carved out for them from the losing empires of WW1, in this case out of the Ottoman Empire. That’s the same way Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yemen, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, and Armenia came into existence or re-existence. When mtrueman and others say that Israel was created out of guilt over the Holocaust, that’s not really correct. The Holocaust was what made the UN get off its rear and do what the League of Nations was supposed to have done 30 years prior, but which had been delayed first by Arab stalling and then WW2. With WW2 over, they could afford to give the matter their attention.
And it should not have taken the UN. Some portion of that (then-unincorporated) area was the Jewish homeland long before Islam was a gleem in the eye of some self-appointed ‘prophet’.
Correction: forgot Yugoslavia on that list.
This is the blind spot of Libertarians. Let’s take an analogy:You have a load of money, or not, and a ridiculous tax break is known to you, maybe one you don’t approve of. Do you take it? OF COURSE YOU DO
Israel was constituted by world legal rulings. If they are wrong, the error is with them and not with Israel.
And on that topic, did the UN do shtall to stop 800 000 dying in Rwanda ? So many times in my life the existence of a world authority that did not use its authority , resulted in death and destruction.
Is Israel legally Israel ? Yes, of course it is. You might not like it — but so what!!
For a different perspective. Which Muslim country would a Palestine look like? Yemen, Syria, Lebanon?
What is the benefit of creating another kleptocratic, authoritarian, Islamist theocracy called Palestine, which would quickly be taken over by Iran or its proxy. What would such a country contribute? They have none of the cultural, social or political institutions to maintain a constitutional democratic state with human rights.
The world needs more Israels and less Islam.
I am biased in favor of Western, Judeo-Christian civilization, and I have no regrets that we colonized America and conquered the native population. If we hadn’t, we would have missiles incoming from the Ohio Valley.
The way for peace is total victory.
Yet what Musllims hate about America is in fact hateworthy,.
Last night our stupid and lazy President, who promised to be the unifier, was just a supernova of hate and destroyer of the unborn. Muslims would kill him on sight and who could say ‘nay’
But until you speak of the TRUTH and what is RIGHT, anybody can fear that the next terrorist door-to-door saleman will hook your enthusiasm to an evil project
hamas televised their civilian killing and vows to never stop until Israel is annihilated. So they must be annihilated. Really, it’s pure logic informed by a humantiarianism that can distinguish defense from a pogrom
Biden is fueling unlimited killing by taking the Hamas side.
I might have missed it, but wasn’t Hammond simultaneously claiming a right of self-determination for every “people,” including presumably Jews, and claiming that the Palestinians should have a “right of return” that would mean that Jews would be a minority in Israel. What is the meaning of a right of “self determination” in an area where, demographically and democratically (which Hammond also supports), a people (since Hammond starts off by saying that there is no such thing as a collective right of a state, that rights only attach to individuals, but then he claims a collective right of a people to “self determination” – another contradiction) would not be politically capable of “determining” anything?
A two-state solution would give both the Jews and the Palestinians the right of “self determination” but a two-state solution with a right of return would mean only the Palestinians would be able to self-determine.
When I want the opinion of someone who wants to criminalize lying and is a Holocaust denying Nazi fuck, I’ll keep you in mind.