Max Abrahms: Historic Escalation in the Israel-Hamas War
Abrahms holds that Hamas' brutal attack on Israeli civilians is not only immoral but "a major strategic mistake" for the Palestinian cause.

This is the audio version of The Reason Livestream, which takes place every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern time.
Hamas stunned the world last weekend by launching a brutal terrorist attack on Israeli civilians and posting their crimes on social media. Israel's government responded with a sustained bombing campaign and a total blockade of the Gaza Strip. Why would Hamas provoke what was certain to be a devastating response from the powerful Israeli military? What is likely to happen next in an Israel-Hamas war that threatens to spill far beyond the region? And what, if anything, should be America's involvement?
To explore these questions, Reason's Liz Wolfe and I spoke with Max Abrahms, a political science professor at Northeastern University and author of Rules for Rebels: The Science of Victory in Militant History, a lengthy study of terrorism and insurgency.
"The first thing smart militants do is recognize that civilian attacks are a recipe for political failure," writes Abrahms. "You might say that the first rule for rebels is to not use terrorism at all."
While he's called Hamas's attack a "major strategic mistake" for the Palestinian cause, he told Reason that their objective might not be to secure autonomy for Palestine at all in the near term but rather an attempt to position "itself as a leader in the larger global Sunni terrorist movement" by provoking a violent response that will galvanize jihadists from around the world to join them.
We analyzed the likely outcomes of Israel's response to the terrorist attack, reacted to statements from GOP politicians like Lindsey Graham who has called for America to bomb Iran if U.S. hostages are killed in Gaza, discussed the principle of US military noninterventionism as articulated by Ron Paul in clips that have circulated social media in the wake of the attack, and the, frankly, insane reactions from American leftists who celebrated Hamas' violent attack as an act of "decolonization."
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https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1712706967423042018?t=pH-pBwujx934KXWWrQ5XJQ&s=19
London looks like Islamabad.
Europe is subject to internal pressure by groups of people “of totally different culture and religion” because of the “grave mistake” of admitting too many foreigners, Henry Kissinger said of the phenomenon of demonstrations across Europe in support of Hamas terrorists this week.
"Mistake" wrongly implies that it was unintentional.
Challenge your bigotry and watch the three minute segment of the video I’ve presented below. After all, it is a prominent Jew speaking.
Israel is a xenophobic stolen apartheid state. Jews have oppressed and terrorized Palestinians since they stole Palestine and started the Middle East conflict in 1948.
What business do we have promising unconditional support for a satanic religious cult? What do we get out of it?
I would prefer to hear from both sides before making a decision.
Which mainstream media outlet is interviewing the Palestinians in Israel, particularly the West Bank who have experienced 75 years of Jewish terrorism, apartheid and oppression while their homes and communities are bulldozed and new Jewish ones are built in their place?
Let’s hear from the Palestinians to recount what Jews have done since they promised to bring the US into WW1 in exchange for the British promise of Palestine via the Balfour Declaration.
Hell, since that won’t happen in our environment of propaganda and censorship, listen to an uncommon Jew tell the truth.
Miko Peled is an Israeli, an author, a public speaker and the son of a famous Israeli general.
He is also opposed to Israeli apartheid of Palestinians.
In the following video he puts into perspective what you won’t see in our western propaganda.
Between 40:40 and 43:45 in the video he describes Israeli terrorism.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
And if you'd lived in Germany in the 1930s, you'd have agreed with everything Hitler said, because it appealed to your bigotry. So, what?
Is telling yourself lies about others how you justify your own bigotry?
You certainly can’t respond to the speaker’s description of Israeli terrorism.
You certainly can’t respond to accusations that you’re an unrepentant Nazi.
Because they’re 100% true.
How’s this?
Prove it. You can’t, you lie.
You literally prove it with almost every post you make. You praise and defend Nazis and you hate Jews. This isn't hard math.
But like I always tell you, if you don't like being called a Nazi, stop being one.
“Praise Nazis”
Cite required.
Your lies are only proof that you’re a lying sack of shit.
You rave about getting rid of the Jews. You also won’t condemn Hitler, or the Nazi regime, or basically anything nazi.
“Getting rid of Jews”
Cite required liar.
I’ve demonstrated that the holocaust is just another Jewish lie, without it, what’s a Nazi or even Hitler?
Just combatants in a war, WW2, that I’ve demonstrated that Jews both wanted and initiated.
Fuck off and die, Nazi scum.
Tell that to your buddy the Jew Zelensky who is employing REAL Nazis in Ukraine with your tax dollars and approval to, of course, terrorize the citizens of Ukraine who don’t support his coup.
So he's a Nazi jew?
He demonstrates that,
JEWS NEED NAZIS
Rob, you are a democrat / Nazi. Only democrats are interested in your communist racist climate change welfare lazy covid unionized crap. STFU.
You’re an anonymous coward, afraid to be recognized and held accountable for the lies you tell.
You’re also a bigot. Choosing to lie to yourself and others,
by immaturely placing me in with the group of those whose arguments you ignore without consideration.
You neither prove what you claim or refute what you deny.
Oh look, the Nazi doesn't like Jewish people. I'm shocked, I tell you!
The United States has NO business promising unconditional support for ... ANYONE. Israel is not now and never has been a xenophobic apartheid state. Almost everything Israel has done has been in response to the unrelenting, unprovoked attacks of neighbors who have vowed to destroy the Jewish State of Israel. To put it into context there are about 15 million Jews in the world with about 7 million of them in Israel; the are over a billion Muslims in the rest of the world with a majority population in over 51 Muslim states. Why can't the Jews have just one Jewish state? Talk about "hearing both sides!" But, then, you already made up your mind or you wouldn't have posted this crap in the first place. The Jews didn't invade Palestine militarily and steal it - there have been Jews living there for over three thousand years; the Muslims in Palestine were barely occupying it, let alone using it and they were GLAD to sell their property to Jews. The Balfour crap is just that - CRAP! England was retreating from its empire and the Jews had to blow up a hotel full of them to get them to leave. The Jews have just as much right historically to that particular region as anyone else. You don't see the Christians trying to destroy the Jewish state just because their cult hero was born and died there - just the Muslims.
“ Why can’t the Jews have just one Jewish state?”
Uh, how about because of a little thing called the human rights of the non Jewish people who already live there.
There are no Christian or Muslim only xenophobic states as Jews want and are willing to terrorize and oppress the Palestinians to accept, leave or die for.
If the Balfour Declaration was considered “crap” why did Jews reference it in the fourth line of their declaration of the state of Israel in 1948?
The evil that Jews have done globally and in Palestine as the xenophobic and satanic “chosen people” makes them the worst group of people on earth.
The fourth paragraph of the 1948 declaration of the state of Israel,
“ This right was acknowledged by the Balfour Declaration of November 2, 1917, and reaffirmed by the Mandate of the League of Nations, which gave explicit international recognition to the historic connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and their right to reconstitute their national home.”
Here’s the Balfour declaration.
Specifically recognize the line,
“ it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,”
because that CERTAINLY isn’t what Jews have done or are doing.
“Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.
Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour
The Balfour declaration was an illegitimate deal between Jews, Britain and a treasonous US president to fool brainwashed Americans into changing their minds and entering WW1, securing the promise of Palestine for satanic Jews.
Samuel Landman, the Solicitior and Secretary to the UK Zionist organization between 1917 and 1922 wrote about American entry into WW1 in his 1936 published paper entitled “Great Britain, the Jews and Palestine” “that the best and perhaps the only way to induce the American president to come into the war, was to secure the cooperation of Zionist Jews by promising them Palestine…The Balfour Declaration in the words of professor H.M.V. Temperley, was “a definite contract between the British Government and Jewry.””
"You say you're in a state of delusion!
W-e-e-e-ell, you know, we've seen a lot of that and more!
You say you've got a Final Solution!
W-e-e-e-ell, you know, we've heard that one before!
And if you go carrying pictures of a man named Adolf,
All I can tell you, Herr Misek, is to Fuck Off!"
Fuck Off, Nazi!
(And apologies to The Fab Four.)
HK turning into Pat Buchanan. Now I've seen everything.
Perhaps Kissinger was bitten by a radioactive Pat Buchanan.
"...Leprechaun-Senses tingling!...Sensing agreement from the OG Culture Warrior!..."
🙂
😉
the Mayor and PM are thrilled. Erin go bragh.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1712886111775674564?t=xjDF1r_tVHf9ZwOOWYrdvw&s=19
"I come to you today as a transgender woman...My enemies, the enemies of the LGBTQ people, are right here, in these United States. They say that Palestinians are my enemy, but that's a lie.”
At a Palestine celebration rally on Oct. 8 in Asheville, N.C. following the Hamas terror attacks, a trans activist named Claire Clark speaks. Hamas governs under Islamic law, banning male same-sex activity in Gaza. Hamas has executed people accused of engaging in gay sex. The West Bank, under Israeli occupation, has laxer rules but LGBT people allege the PA government harasses and blackmails suspected homosexuals using dossiers.
Asheville Trantifa activist Claire Clark, who says her enemies are in the U.S. not Palestine at the Hamas celebration rally, used to be a redneck fisherman before being radicalized to the far left. She's now a member of the Party for Socialism & Liberation.
[Link]
The real story is how Mx Clark survived that much chronic inhalant abuse.
No brain to damage.
Sounds like not hormone blockers, but synapse-blockers.
Well, honey, you're welcome to go to Palestine if you wish. I'm staying where I can swing how I please without near as much to fear. Rest assured, the jihadis don't "stop before the chop."
>> objective might not be to secure autonomy for Palestine at all
circle gets the square.
Some " who celebrated Hamas' violent attack as an act of "decolonization." view tree planting as a call to war in the Levant.
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2023/10/urban-heat-islands-of-plain.html
Pitch your fake web site elsewhere, shitbag.
Fuck off and die.
https://twitter.com/Howlingmutant0/status/1712748760386707787?t=UK3yCTU1qqCvDQc609OUsA&s=19
Tfw you spend years stirring up anti white resentment only to realize the proles dont make any distinction between jewish and white
[Link]
Don’t you hate it when that happens?
Ben Shapiro needs to get the fuck out of my country
https://twitter.com/restoreorderusa/status/1712954326652424658?t=vQtBob5K4cxmuhPsql4-ww&s=19
“If Israel is forced to the wall, the possibility of nuclear exchange is extremely high.”
Today Ben Shapiro told his audience that unless the United States provides material aid to Israel, it could find itself in a scenario where it’s nuking its neighbors.
[Video]
He's just stating facts. Why does that bother you?
Ah, so if the US doesn't hold a gun to the heads of Americans' and take our resources for Israel's crusade, Israel will nuke the world.
Yea, you're such good guys.
Get the fuck out of my country.
https://twitter.com/theDutchMatrix/status/1713008747109593326?t=S5rqs5ivkybVnG4bQpg32A&s=19
“Give me everything I want or I’ll kill myself and possibly you too” is how abusers talk
That's not what Shapiro said.
nardz has a problem with anything that isn't twitter; he's about 15 or so (in mental age).
Syphilitic sqrlvo talking shit about anybody else's mental maturity is the height of comedy.
Die soon, cocksucker.
That's exactly what Shapiro said.
Shapiro didn’t say that, nor is he in a position to say that, being a political commentator and all that. You are shouting at a figment of your own imagination.
I don't know what you mean by "you". I disagree with Shapiro on many policy positions.
I probably will sooner or later. "Real Americans" like you will be losing a lot of tax revenue.
He can take his eyebrows too.
What scenario regarding Israel policy could result in the US's nuking Canada and Mexico?
don't you mean Iran and China?
Words and ideas are dangerous
What!? Israel has always denied having nuclear weapons. Liars.
“As part of the annual three-month “Israel-bashing” festival at the United Nations General Assembly, an automatic majority of 146 states adopted, on 7 December 2022, one of its annual resolutions calling upon Israel to renounce possession of nuclear weapons and to place its nuclear facilities under international supervision. Only six states voted against the resolution – Canada, the U.S., Palau, Micronesia, Liberia and Israel.”
Fuck off Kol Nidre boyS.
Liars.
Except for the ones who say what you want to hear. Those ones are telling the truth.
What are you babbling about fuckwit?
Does Israel deny it has nuclear weapons every year. Yes.
Did Israel just threaten to use nuclear weapons? Yes.
The two are mutually exclusive. They are LIARS.
As usual you have to distort things to fit a narrative. Why not just tell the truth? Israel practices a policy of ambiguity regarding its nuclear capability. Why not just comment on that reality as a criticism? Instead you want to paint them as liars – when their official policy is to neither confirm nor deny possession of nuclear weapons – as a form of deterrence and maintaining uncertainty in the face of their enemies. Seems like a reasonable policy to me given the situation, but reasonable people can disagree about the effectiveness and morality of the policy. However, you want to spin their policy to claim they are liars…I wonder why? Such hypocrisy that you regularly practice here in the comments, Mr. “lying should be outlawed”, and yet here you are lying about Israel’s communication practices around nukes. Typical.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
There is no ambiguity. They either have nukes or they don’t.
They lie to advance their interests.
I have no interest in mincing words.
Not confirming and not denying is not the same as lying no matter how much you want to make it seem that way. You aren’t just mincing words, you are spinning a narrative by lying. You are a liar. I won’t just call you disingenuous. You’re straight up lying. Liar.
Jews know if they have nukes or not.
Their silence when confronted is the same as lying.
Why can’t other states simply stonewall the world about their ownership of weapons of mass destruction without being sanctioned or attacked?
It takes a real clown to know how to backpedal with such grace. Now "silence.. is the same as lying", everyone.
The purpose of willful silence is the same as lying.
To coerce people to act in the liars interest instead of their own.
Instead of falsely claiming the authority of truth, the silent criminal obfuscates and interferes with it to prevent others from making decisions in their own interests.
Oh I see. Now silence is lying. Jesus dude get a fucking grip. Are all nations also required to divulge all defensive and offensive capabilities when asked? If they are silent about it, it’s lying? You are so completely disingenuous and dishonest. Should the US have disclosed the Manhattan project to Germany and Japan before having the weapons available too? I mean, if they had asked and the US had stonewalled, that would have been lying and wrong, correct? You are not a serious person…what a joke you are…assclown.
Secrets require lies and lies require secrets.
Silence, in exactly the same way is required for secrets.
Secrets are not good things. They exist where truth is oppressed. Truth, reality is a good thing, necessary for evolution.
The fact that our society doesn’t recognize that logically wilful silence is employed to achieve the same objective as lies simply demonstrates the intellectual shallowness of it, and you.
Why can’t other states simply stonewall the world about their ownership of weapons of mass destruction without being sanctioned or attacked?
Look how many innocent civilians the US nuked in Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a result of the secret Manhattan project.
Misek doesn’t understand what lying is. Which makes sense, because his tiny mind is a cross section of stupid and delusional.
Tell me all about lying Kol Nidre boy.
Like all politicians, Palestinian leaders care about power, not the “Palestinian cause”. Progress on the normalization of Israeli-Arab relations was a threat to their power, so they acted. It’s not rocket science.
It’s the same reason Democrats in the US create new racial conflicts, push LGBTQ+ ideology to absurd extremes, and aren’t fixing healthcare: they need these conflicts to be active in order to stay in power.
You make an interesting parallel, however there really can be no "normalization," what that would entail would just be other Arab states keeping pressure on Hamas and others not to act in any way...
It isn't the job of Arab states to deal with the Palestinians or exert pressure on Hamas.
Just because you think that all Arab nations are the same doesn't make it true.
Yeah yeah, middle east, conflict in Israel, blah blah.
Funny meme kicking around the internet
MTV turns 40 years old. Thanks for 14 years of music!
Video killed the radio star. MTV killed the video star.
Israel commits genocide again.
Nothing to see here folks.
It was worse than a crime; it was a blunder.
I expect that the next move for Hamas is to prevent Palestinians in north Gaza from moving south or into declared safe areas. They want their people killed by Israel and will kill them if they try to get to safety.
The only solution is to do a slow sift of 5,000 at a time, establishing identities and histories carefully. Innocents and most women and children in a mandated diaspora to various taking countries. Hamas operatives and supporters extirpated. The optics are terrible but the alternative, — bombing and casualties, with no solvable endgame (in fact a demographic losing game), — is untenable. Note the quiet preparation and opacity while consulting many diplomatic contacts. Not known fact, but the other options are DOA.
"most women and children in a mandated diaspora to various taking countries."
I hear Oklahoma is always a welcoming destination when it comes to forced population transfers.
The CCP has a real estate crisis now Apparently, due toe perverse in incentives, they have overbuilt up to one billion housing units. Apparently, it is one colossal Ponzi scheme. There are entirely empty cities in China.
What better use of this opportunity to relocate the Palestinian people to a free nation.
Win-win for all.
Fiona, please write this article now .
You are talking about an ethnic cleansing.
That's not quite as morally abhorrent as a Hamas's recent massacre, but it is up there. This would require uprooting 2 million people and dumping them in countries where they have few ties, where they are unwelcome, and where the local regime lies somewhere between dictatorial and murderously awful.
Israel cannot become morally monstrous, even if it's enemies are worse, and shame on you for suggesting they should.
"Why would Hamas provoke what was certain to be a devastating response from the powerful Israeli military? "
It seems evident that Hamas spent years in preparing for the attack. They over ran a few bases, roamed freely in large Israeli towns with impunity, took hostages, inflicted casualties and destroyed or captured equipment and tech. But nothing to seriously damage Israeli military capabilities or resolve. Maybe they're saving that for the ground assault which they intended to provoke. They enjoy a home ice advantage and it's likely they planned, equipped and trained just as hard and long for the ground as they did for the initial attack a week ago.
Or they're primitive idiots and were unable to predict the obvious response from a much more powerful adversary.
"Or they’re primitive idiots "
This has been the assumption the IDF has been operating under for decades. It has not served them well. Always underestimate your enemy is arrogance not strategy.
We can only hope the Israelis exterminate every last one of them.
Certainly Hamas has prepared for the Israeli attack.
Likely they have also planned for expanding their crimes to the USA by sending terrorists over Biden’s open border. So SloJo funded Hamas and invited them here.
Let’s go Brandon!
"Certainly Hamas has prepared for the Israeli attack."
But of course not until Trump was out of office. You're not just another partisan stooge trying to make hay out of the attack, are you? Maybe I was wrong to expect more from you.
The planning may have started any time, but it’s unarguable that getting terrorists into the US has been much, much easier after Jan 2021, and the moron in chief funded them. That’s not partisan.
The Hamas attack seems almost like a group suicide attack. With the severity of the atrocities they committed, they invited a disproportionate response from Israel, most likely meaning Hamas will be wiped out forever. Maybe they are banking on other nations to attack Israel afterward, but no one from Hamas will be around to see how that turns out.
Hamas' leadership live in Qatar.
And the last World Cup was in Qatar… coincidence?
We'll have to ask the North Korean slave laborers if they know anything about that
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1712948697032511929?t=gZpIxwJChu6pL00NuyKGqw&s=19
Breaking: Pro-Palestine protesters shut down a Chicago City Council meeting to try to stop a proposed resolution declaring Hamas "terrorists" for their massacres in southern Israel starting on Oct. 7. Police removed all of the public.
[Video]
That seems pretty insurrectiony.
Did they not support Biden?
That seems to be the insurrectionist tipping point.
Lol. As if all of Chicagoland was breathlessly awaiting a proclamation from the fucking city council on…. anything.
The self importance. I can’t even….
Stanford lecturer suspended for calling Jewish students "colonizers," and saying "only 6 million" died in the Holocaust, while "colonizers" are responsible for far more deaths.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/13/stanford-teacher-suspended-for-singling-out-jewish-students/
https://twitter.com/Border911Live/status/1712969544438780156?t=mPEAaAbxEvthkUcfKV-Q4g&s=19
Total known 'gotaways' since Biden took office =
Over 1,700,000
The term "got away" means an unlawful border crosser who:
(A) is directly or indirectly observed making an unlawful entry into the United States;
(B) is not apprehended; and
(C) is not a turn back.
Another democrat success story!
They are calling it their Pearl Harbor, just like 9/11. Coordinated to let it happen, just like 9/11.
They are, indeed. But are they right?
What we need to realize about these marches, beyond the fact that we have enemies (foreign and domestic) living among us, is the massive scale of the left's activist army ready to go at a moment's notice.
https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1712965726913618285?t=8hyY5vsdo4K71zQqrVZd5A&s=19
NOW: Thousands taking over the streets of Portland in solidarity with Palestine “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
[Video]
I'd bet that half of them can't even find Palestine or Gaza on a map with borders but without names.
I think even 10% would be an overly generous estimate
True. One has to be pretty fucking stupid to support the Palestinians.
I'd double your bet.
It’s long past time to deposit these leftists in landfills. It’s going to be them or us.
“Why would Hamas provoke…”
No longer matters. The machinations, the bloodlust behind some jihadist labyrinth, territory, power, religion, ideology. None of that matters now.
Israel saw the devil this time. Hamas is about to become extinct. Even if it means scorched earth time.
I hope Israel slaughters every last one of them.
Make Hamas extinct
America last!
https://twitter.com/joelpollak/status/1712981078066213017?t=huKIBLy-SE1KdAlrP12UFg&s=19
I disagree with this. We should give civilians from Gaza temporary refuge during the war, as long as they are not a threat, and encourage regional Arab states to do the same.
[Link]
No Muslim country wants palistinians
Not a one.
https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1712839914222444993?t=JVTZWyj25aA-dxHh9xwQiA&s=19
Multiculturalism. Isn’t it lovely.
[Video]
thanks for detailed article, its very helpful to me, must need to share with friends
fiddle leaf fig
Do you think any of those who want to decolonize realize they are colonizers? We took this land from the Natives right?
I have received $19734 last month by working 0nline from home in my spare time. I am a full time college student and just doing this easy home based j0b for 3 to 4 hrs a day. This j0b is easy to do and its earnings are awesome. Every peraon can now start making easy cash right now by just follow details here......
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Just say a land acknowledgment and it's all good.
And virtually all the "Natives" were living on land they took from someone else.
The original inhabitants are all single cell organisms.
"a major strategic mistake" for the Palestinian cause.
So, look beneath surface appearances and ask who benefits from the attack. As usual, follow the money.
Thus, we can also blame entrepreneurs selling stockpiled generators for not only having anticipated the natural disasters, but for having caused them. Follow the money!
ObviouslyAnIdiot equates warfare with natural disasters.
This is not hard to figure out.
The charter of Hamas calls for the killing of all Jews. They mean it. Surprise!
Oslo, Two states, disengagement and conflict management (aka mowing the lawn) are complete and utter policy failures.
There can be Hamas, or there can be Israel; but, there cannot be both. Hamas in Gaza will be located, pursued, and killed. The hostages, or their dead bodies will be recovered. This is a perfectly legitimate war goal.
Incentivized, voluntary emigration and forced repatriation are now on the table vis a vis policy.
There will be no palestinian state in Gaza, Judea, or Samaria. There will be one state: Israel. Anyone remaining will live under Israeli sovereignty.
"There will be one state: Israel. Anyone remaining will live under Israeli sovereignty."
I agree. This is probably the best solution. A one state solution. It's the best solution for rather perverse reasons. Nobody wants it. Neither the Jews nor the Arabs. It will be the compromise the parties settle on when they are ready to settle. A secular state which favors neither the Jews nor the Muslims, the Christians, the Buddhists, the Satanists etc.
"This is a perfectly legitimate war goal."
I disagree. Wiping out members of the Hamas militia is not going to solve the Palestinian issue. The conflict dates back years before Hamas was conceived of, and will likely continue after it is supplanted by some other organization. It's simplistic pie in the sky to think otherwise.
“Wiping out members of the Hamas militia is not going to solve the Palestinian issue”
So? Is a necessary step in the right direction. Hamas cannot be allowed to exist. So let the Israelis slaughter them all.
"So?"
So, Hamas exists because of the encouragement of Israel which thought the group could be a foil against the PLO, the group Hamas eventually supplanted in Gaza. The PLO were responsible for atrocities like the hostage taking at the Munich Olympics, you may recall, and the bag man and fund raiser for the operation, Mahmoud Abbas, is today the president of the PLO, and the only Palestinian politician Israel is willing to sit down and talk to. The lesson here is that Israel picking and choosing who leads and who doesn't lead the Palestinians hasn't been successful. You're betting on whoever rises to replace Hamas is going to be compliant and accepting of Israeli occupation and the indignities heaped on them.
Correct. And they are going to conclude that the only solution, ultimately, is to annex Gaza and the West Bank, and to expel the bulk of the Palestinians.
Quite correctly. What else are they to do? The Palestinians’ have no interest in peaceful coexistence.
“What else are they to do? ”
Expecting the West to deal with and ‘solve’ Israel’s refugee problem is not realistic. The leaders are already warning Israel against escalating.
It's a conflict between Israel and Palestine. It's up to them to sort it out.
" and to expel the bulk of the Palestinians"
They tried that in 1948 and look where it got them. And there are millions of Palestinians who are citizens of Israel, Christian and Muslim, who own passports, property, vote in Arab members of the Knesset, the whole megillah.
But incorporate Gaza and West Bank and Jerusalem into Israel? Yes, that would be an essential step to establish one state.
Not gonna happen. Muslims are outbreeding Jews, and as soon as they have a majority, they would turn Israel into an Islamic state.
Correct. The issue is going to be solved by expelling all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and annexing those territories into Israel.
In 2020 the overall Jewish TFR in Israel (3.00) was for the first time measured higher than Arab Muslim TFR (2.99).
"Muslims are outbreeding Jews, and as soon as they have a majority, they would turn Israel into an Islamic state."
That would give secularists, Muslim and Jewish, something they can both work together to avoid. It's a political solution rather than the military solution you advocate.
"The issue is going to be solved by expelling all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and annexing those territories into Israel."
Jews forcing millions of Palestinians at gun point into leaky boats bound for the refugee camps of Europe. Not going to happen. And you're so detached from reality that you call it a 'solution.'
"Muslims are outbreeding Jews, and as soon as they have a majority"
In that case, one way or another, they'll eventually get what they want. Look at South Africa. I just don't think a unified Israel would ever become an Islamic state. The Jewish population in Israel, even if it fell below 50%, is just too powerful. These are not realistic possibilities, but dystopian zionist fantasies. I'm not falling for it.
Well, you'll just have to deal with the fact that Israel has self-determination, and they are not going to let millions of virulently intolerant, violent, anti-Semitic people immigrate. Sorry, not gonna happen.
The fertility rate in Gaza is substantially higher than the fertility rate of Israelis.
NOYB2....The way to achieve a reduction of palestinians within Israel in a humane, non-violent manner is incentivized emigration.
That demographic bomb....is a fizzle. Israel is 70% Jewish, and that percentage increases just over time.
The other thing: Israeli Arab =/= palestinian
The sooner that Hamas with Gaza is physically obliterated, the better off the world will be.
"non-violent manner is incentivized emigration."
To where? America? Europe? They have their own refugee problems to deal with. How about emigration to Libya or Syria? They will just end up joining others in fleeing to Europe's over crowded refugee facilities.
This is an issue between Israel and Palestine. How do you expect Israel to incentivize America, say, to absorb millions of Palestinian immigrants?
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Ask yourself,,, why are the democrats always cheering for the slaughter of the Jewish people?
Then look up how communism and islam have become married.
The roots of the democrat party are sunk deep into the slavery of black people in the southern U.S.
When the Republicans took slavery away from the democrats (civil war) the democrats turned to communism.
Lately the democrats have branched out to covid cultism and the anti-science climate religion. They wear the masks.
But hamas just gave the democrats a new start.
Joseph P.Q. biden has just enough awareness left to know that wholesale slaughter of Jewish people isn't going to fly politically... so he is very tepidly, kind of sort of pretending to not be in favor of it.