Kaytlin Bailey: Time to Decriminalize—and Destigmatize!—Sex Work

Prostitutes have not only provided a much-in-demand service but helped to push the boundaries of freedom and liberty for millennia.

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Kaytlin Bailey: Time to Decriminalize—and Destigmatize!—Sex Work

It might be the oldest profession, but prostitution and other forms of sex work are also among the most prohibited and regulated around the world. 

At the latest Reason Speakeasy—a monthly live event in New York City with outspoken defenders of free speech and heterodox thinking—I talked with Kaytlin Bailey, the founder and executive director of Old Pros, a sex worker rights group and the writer and performer of Whore's Eye View, a one-woman show about 10,000 years of prostitution, female emancipation, and sexual freedom.

Bailey and Old Pros seek not just to decriminalize sex work but to destigmatize it too, arguing that sex workers have not only provided a much-in-demand service but helped to push the boundaries of freedom and liberty.

Comments

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Time to make a choice Reason. Sex work will never be decriminalized if zoning isn’t allowed.

[mad.casual]

Disagree, not enough money where their, uh, mouth is:
HIV status is not a reason to allow a service provider to refuse service. Even if that person is a fully trained and licensed medical expert and is simply demanding a higher level of care to protect themselves and their other patients, asking a woman with HIV to pony up more dough for the added protection is a violation of the ADA because HIV adversely affects her fertility (indirectly). See Bragdon v. Abbott.

Rejecting anyone based on their gender, sex, or sexual orientation are all interchangeably forbidden. Discrimination against a single person who may just be flippantly or even disingenuously part of a group is systematic discrimination against a completely different group who can't just be acting (Thanks Gorsuch!) and, therefor, illegal. Personal sexual preference or orientation is no defense for anyone. See Bostock v. Clayton County.

I think I've been pretty vocal about wishing the law weren't this way and that it plainly doesn't make sense for it to be this way but, IMO, it's pretty crystal clear that the interpretation is explicit and valid. So, to the AWFLs saying "legalize and destigmatize" either take an HIV-infected dick up the ass first or GTFO and get your other shit together.

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[Agammamon]

Decriminalize - yes. Absolutely.

Destigmatize - no. Not only no, but hell no.

We have a e-thot problem *because sex work isn't stigmatized anymore*.

[Bill Dalasio]

Agreed. But, regime libertarians are all in favor of e-thots. They don't so much object to tyranny, as they want hipper circuses and avocado toast included in the grain dole.

[Nardz]

Reason is staffed by whores and desperate for approval

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Stop putting down honest whores!

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[mad.casual]

Destigmatize – no. Not only no, but hell no.

Further, the notion that you can just destigmatize prostitution without also decriminalizing at least some forms of racketeering is female chauvinist horseshit, Pollyanna-esque thinking, or a combination of the two.

Neither racketeering nor prostitution has a victim until somebody fails to pay up and if ladies are gonna walk about and do that sort of thing legally, well then, private citizens ought to be able to take it upon themselves to protect their assets, I mean, their financial interests… them… legally.

[Bender B. Rodriguez]

I'm all for decriminalizing sex work, but I wouldn't say that prostitution is completely victimless: families can be irreparably damaged (just like with gambling) and workers can be exploited (like with other illegal labor). These are problems that can be resolved with transparency of the market and healthy family culture.

[mad.casual]

These are problems that can be resolved with transparency of the market and healthy family culture.

No, they can be addressed, but not resolved. Absent personal responsibility, they are ineffectual. And "People should never stigmatize my decisions, even the ones that have significant consequences and have been habitually stigmatized back to the days of non-human primates." is not how one goes about espousing and accepting personal responsibility.

[Liberty_Belle]

If you have an e-thot problem, it is only because you have consumers of e-thottery. Get a less lecherous population, and your problem goes away.

It's not the drug it's the users that are the problem. Get rid of the desire to get high, the drug problem goes away. Try to get rid of the drug, and people who are just determined to get high will still huff spraypaint cans, sniff glue, asphyxiate, shoot up horse tranqs, etc.

[Brandybuck]

There have always been two kinds of libertarians. The liberty kind that says legalize all activities that are not coercive. And the, I dunno, the "libertine" kind that says celebrate absolutely everything that is legal. Those two camps will agree not to outlaw or regulate purely voluntary and personal activities, but culturally they are miles apart.

I can argue for drug legalization despite not using any narcotics whatsoever. I can argue for gay marriage despite not being gay. And I can argue for legalized prostitution despite not using prostitutes. It's easy. Doesn't mean I have to celebrate drug use and advocate microdosing, or experiment with sexual activities of an alternative nature, or dance in the Sex Workers Parade.

One can be, ahem, culturally conservative and still be a bona fide libertarian who wants to limit and restrain government as much as pragmatically possible.

[Don't look at me!]

What about Trump?

[Her Scrotum]

Golden showers are only good in fiction.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

He paid for Stormy Daniels.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Yet she lost her lawsuit against him.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Meaning he overpaid.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Horse face

[Her Scrotum]

There's a good chunk of people who label themselves as libertarians but are actually just libertines who'd like slightly fewer regulations and some lower taxes.

[MaeKnowles]

I’m making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

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[Brandybuck]

So that's pretty what a socialist bookshop owner told me years ago.

"You're just a fucking reactionary who likes to get high!"

Never been high in my life (if you discount getting buzzed on scotch).

Libertarians are more than just Republicans who got busted.

[Mickey Rat]

There is a stigma to sex work because it tends to degrade the sex worker into an object and therefore does not tend to be the most emotionally healthy way to earn a living. Sorry, but demanding that society morally approve of such work goes a bit too far crossing the line from the libertarian to the libertine.

[Mother's Lament]

Plus whores are bigger disease vectors than playschools.

Legalize but let the social stigmas remain.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

And if they're simultaneously campaigning for legalization *and* "destigmatization," then maybe we should be dubious about their movement...we've seen what happens when people start saying "I just want to be left alone with my sexuality" and end up saying "bake me a cake or go out of business."

So what is at the bottom of this new slippery slope? State-sponsored temple prostitution? Govt-provided prostitutes for "incels"?

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Back in 2005, the *Telegraph* had an article about a young woman in Germany who had her unemployment benefits cut because she turned down a job as a prostitute.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1482371/If-you-dont-take-a-job-as-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html?mid=5547330

[paywalled]

I think the Germans reformed that situation, IIRC, but logically, why shouldn’t this happen if prostitution is destigmatized? Why shouldn’t the government cut off your unemployment benefits if you turn up your nose at what society considers a perfectly respectable job?

In libertarian terms, why should the taxpayers subsidize some lazy woman just because she finds some kinds of jobs icky?

With destigmatization, how can you avoid these things?

[TheReEncogitationer]

Uh, there would be no government funded Unemployment compensation in a Free-Market Capitalist Libertarian society.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Indeed, but it doesn’t seem like this particular activist is waiting until we reach libertopia, she wants her destigmatization carried out as soon as possible.

This is like the libertarians who join the gay-marriage bandwagon because “omg keep the state out of marriage,” even though that’s not what we see happening. Instead, we have the state’s definition of marriage forced on bakers, etc.

Also, IIRC Hayek supported the idea of unemployment insurance.

[TheReEncogitationer]

This is like the libertarians who join the gay-marriage bandwagon because “omg keep the state out of marriage,” even though that’s not what we see happening. Instead, we have the state’s definition of marriage forced on bakers, etc.

While it is true that both of those things did happen shortly apart (and I don't favor foricng bakers to "bake that cake" elither,) it is a Logical Fallacy to say legalizing Same-Sex Marriage caused "bake that cake."

This is especially so because the first instance is about about Family Law and Marriage Law and the second instance is about so-called "Civil Rights/Public Accommodations" Law.

Also, IIRC Hayek supported the idea of unemployment insurance.

I wouldn't object to private forms of this either, such as mutual funds designed for high steady growth while working followed by switching to blue chips or no-risk when unemployed.

But making it a government program turns a safety net into a hammock, as was clearly proven during COVID-19. Sadly, Hayek was off the mark here.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Promoting same sex marriage has always been about government-mandated recognition, not about achieving libertopia.

There were intervals in some states where the government didn’t recognize SSM but forced private entities to do so. I’m not sure how to account for this double standard (which didn’t last long anyway), but the activists were pushing both for government recognition and government-imposed private recognition.

Whenever they had a proposed amendment to an SSM bill giving *real* protection to the private sector, that amendment was killed. As with the recent Congressional bill.

With the normalization of prostitution, there will be no logical reason to provide unemployment to women who turn down jobs as hookers. Unemployment will still be available in general, so it will be a selective subsidy encouraging prostitution.

[JimboJr]

and thisties in to the bigger issue that is directly caused by today's progs. Lack of shame.

Its all about celebrating hedonism without consequences. Its why we have to applaud an obese sports illustrated model. Why should we insensitive bigots get to have standards of beauty? That means this poor model cant both gorge herself until she has more rolls than years, while simultaneously get a modeling contract! That would hurt someones feelings. Her having to go on a diet and work out is hard, and she should get everything she wants without having to work for it (this is their mantra)

Its why we had half of society pretending that everyone was at risk for monkeypox. Because if you tell the truth, that well its really just the gay men who are so obsessed with randomly fucking/sucking anything that walks, there is a chance they might feel some shame about their lifestyle and perhaps reflect that constantly pursuing 100% pleasure without any moderation or thought of consequence might statistically lead you toward an unhappy life.

I have no problem with legalizing most things that involve adults making their own decisions. But there is a reason shame is attached to certain things. And it usually is because people know that if you do said things to excess, it leads to sadness

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

society morally approve of such work goes a bit too far crossing the line from the libertarian to the libertine.

It's not enough to simply allow something to exist, you have to enthusiastically support and participate.

[mad.casual]

The privileged virtue signalling of ‘destigmatizing’ sex work is just astounding. Really the pinnacle of AWFL.

It’s never some 70-yr. old Asian woman with one glass eye, 8 fingers and makeup tattooed to her face calling for it, never some La’Tasha Johnson, or whomever the WI girl convicted of murder was, raped a dozen times with a half-dozen abortions before the age of 10, calling to destigmatize it. And no man could get away with calls to destigmatize abuse that’s been much more tolerated across human history from the times of the Pharaohs’ wives and King Solomon’s concubines up to and including today.

But here come liberal white women with their message of “We have been delivered to you today so that you may legalize our sexual proclivities and the ideologies they support.”, displaying fully their Pollyanna-esque ignorance of the last 10,000 yrs. of humanity.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It’s never some 70-yr. old Asian woman with one glass eye, 8 fingers and makeup tattooed to her face calling for it, never some La’Tasha Johnson

Ehh, I wanna say Reason has pimped a certain sex worker on multiple occasions who makes you wonder how she ever earned anything while on the game.

[mad.casual]

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about the attractiveness of the person, but the lifestyle. I'm not sure to which sex worker you're referring, but there was the story with Aella where you pointed out that she engaged in what normal women would call sexual assault but that she, in no way, considered it that. And that's my point, everybody wants to be a Navy SEAL, nobody wants to give up their legs to do it. I'll believe the one-eyed Asian sex worker has seen the worst that legalizing prostitution could have to offer and if she still says, "Legalize it." I'll take her word for it. The AWFL who hasn't considered 600 people choking to death in workplace accidents the way 600 roofers fall to their death every year can get fucked sans payment.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Uh, you can't have lost limbs and be a Navy S.E.A.L., nor are lost limbs a necessary consequence of being a Navy S.E.A.L. So as usual, I don't know what you're babbling about.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Excuse me, but where do you find these people you use as examples?

Not asking for a friend, just out of lurid curiousity about you.

And you say all this as if women didn't experience abuse in the holy bonds of marriage or before the institutions of prostitution or commerce or even civilization itself.

[Social Justice is neither]

OT but relevant: saw a Jordan Peterson/Andrew Schults short yesterday about curse words. In Egypt both slut and whore are curses but of the two slut is considered worse. Logic being prostitution can be a necessity to survive so, while bad, is understandable sometimes and so less bad than closely related behavior for no good reason beyond self gratification.

How many of these advocates are just sluts that get paid?

[TheReEncogitationer]

Sooo...Just what are you saying? "So it is written. So it shall it be done?" 🙂

You don't have to partake, of course, but you don't have to get all pharaonic about it. 😉

[Marshal]

"Destigmatize"? So thought control then?

That seems an odd pursuit for a "libertarian" magazine.

[TheReEncogitationer]

The by-word is "consensually" of course. For this Libertarian.

[Dillinger]

if the prostitutes team up with the SF churches who receive zoning relief maybe the destigmatization can go down.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

She came out as a sex worker in 2013. She went on to write about her experiences for Vice and other publications.

Wai wai wait, hold on, shut up… for someone who sucks dick for a living, you talk too much… –Patrice O'Neal

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Her Comedy:

My rating: C-/D+

[JimboJr]

When you correct for her gender thats like a B for a woman.

Her tits however definitely seem to be in the D category.

[Nemo Aequalis]

I have a pretty good idea what happens next when libertarians start talking about legalizing things.

Are whores going to get their own flag, or just a stripe on the rainbow one?

How old will children need to be before enrolling in "Effective Whoring Techniques" in school?

Which month do we pick to "Celebrate Prostitution"? Are there any left, or are they going to have to double up with "indigenous People's Month"?

Is this going to end up yet another topic we're no longer allowed to discuss in polite company?

Yay freedom!

[mad.casual]

Conservatives will put the condition of legalizing it on striking down Bostock, Bragdon, repealing the ACA, and rolling Title IX back to strictly applying to admissions numbers. They'll be called misogynistic oppressive bigots right up until some undocumented woman is forced to take some HIV+ lady dick as a job, then they'll be called crazy for discriminating against HIV infected gay men and misogynistic for not doing more to protect all women, because BOAF SIDEZ.

[TheReEncogitationer]

We all see well how Europe dealt with wayward women from The Dark Ages to The Enlightenment and again under Fascism, Nazism, and Communism.

Hard Pass and Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!

[Nemo Aequalis]

Ever notice that the people who tell us the Nazis are the Bad Guys are the same ones telling us people who mutilate their children are the Good Guys?

And, as always….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvggevL_1OE

[Nemo Aequalis]

[TheReEncogitationer]

I never support that from anyone in any context. Strawman exploded.

For an Aryan Pure Superman, you sure are lame and uncreative in your come-backs.

Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!

[Steven Howard]

Decriminalize makes sense. As for being a vector for disease, person has a choice how far to go and how much to pay. Not sure which diseases get spread by handjobs, or even blowjobs. As for the
other activities, caveat emptor.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The government botched the rollout of the monkeypox vaccine! Libertarians for better government rollout of free vaccines!

[TheReEncogitationer]

If government spent nothing on banning victimless vices and on the externalities consequentially created by such bans, perhaps we citizens would have the capital to invest in things like bullet-proof birth control for both men and women as well as cures for big diseases with little names and unfunny diseases with funny names. Then we could really have consequence-free pleasure!

[Rikki de la Vega]

A correction: New Zealand is not the only country or jurisdiction which has decriminalized sex work.

Australia's New South Wales and Norther Territory have done so, in 1999 and 2019 respectively. Victoria recently passed a law to decriminalize in stages, taking full effect in December 2023.

Belgium passed a new law in March 2022 decriminalizing full-service sex work, which came into effect June 1st.

South Africa's cabinet has recently proposed decriminalization, and a bill is expected to be brought to their parliament soon.

[KiwiDude]

New Zealand hasn‘t decriminalised sex work.
It is Fully Legal to be a pro here, along with being a pimp, a madame and a john

[The Obsolete Man]

It’s called “prostitution” and no amount of rebranding will change its nature. Whether it should be lawful or not is a separate discussion, but society has rightly shunned the practice and the practitioners for millennia and should continue to do so.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

No, if we call it "prostitution" but don't add "worker" at the end, then it's harder to add a whole series of government goodies, rights, privileges and state-imposed protected status legislation to the work, employers, pay grades, union protections, safety, vaccine requirements, masking requirements *checks notes*... I don't have time to read it all off, but you get the idea.

[mad.casual]

*checks notes*… I don’t have time to read it all off, but you get the idea

Yes. We're talking about ending vaginal workplace discrimination by women who won't house immigrants in their own home even *without* sex.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Should any government-granted bennies exist for any line of work? The Libertarian answer is "no."

As for vaccines against venereal diseases, those are for consumer protection, not paternalism for workers.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Cite?

[MaeKnowles]

I’m making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

This is where i started……………>>> onlinecareer1

[plaidshirt]

Reason: “The Mises Caucus engages in an unseemly culture war.”

Also Reason: “Let’s destigmatize prostitution!”

[TheReEncogitationer]

At least prostitutes are straightforward about who they are and serve a good purpose while having fun doing it.

By contrast, probably not one member of the Mises Caucus has even read Ludwig Von Mises or they wouldn't be doing all their juvenile shit that sabotages the cause of Liberty as badly as their Woke opponents.

[Eric H.]

Voluntary sex work is a victimless act, it shouldn't be criminal.
That doesn't mean that it can't have a stigma, that's a call best made by a free society.
We can be free Puritans, or libertines or something in between.

[Neptus67]

This is a good idea -- as long as it isn't just another way of harassing and attacking men and/or undermining the family.

[TheReEncogitationer]

D3stigmatizing prostitution would apply to both women and men and prostitutes could also function as sex therapists for married couples and help keep marriages together.

[RENATA the rational]

Prostitution should be outlawed and if not should be discouraged.
When it suits them folks point to Spain but not on this !!
"e 7 (Reuters) - Spain voted on Tuesday in favor of a proposal to draw up legislation to abolish prostitution, cracking down further on pimping and introducing tougher penalties for men buying sex in a controversial initiative that has split the women's rights movement."
Women just can't decide: DO I let my sisters be degraded by making a living whoring or do I say 'This is wrong, let me help them!"

Like coerced abortions the sex industry is often just pure violence, nothing facultative about it
"“Kidnapped prostitutes” are victims of sex trafficking, a form of modern day slavery. The Trafficking Victims Protection Act, championed by Rep. Christopher Smith, defines severe forms of trafficking in persons as ”sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age.”"