Why the Pandemic Will End Only When We Demand It's Over
Ronald Bailey and Jacob Sullum on the future of COVID-19, the politicization of science, the failure of mandates, and how to talk with anti-vaxxers.
"More and more people are seceding from the pandemic, basically saying, 'Well, we've got a better idea of what the risks are for us personally. We now can calibrate…more of the risks that we want to take. As that happens, more and more people will be able to leave the pandemic behind as we go forward into the next year," says Reason Science Correspondent Ronald Bailey, who has written provocatively that the pandemic will end when "we decide to stop paying attention to it." But will authorities at the local, state, and federal levels allow us to get back to our lives?
For the past two years, no topic has dominated our lives like COVID-19, the respiratory virus that has killed 820,000 Americans and triggered lockdowns at work and school, travel restrictions, vaccine and mask mandates, massive levels of new government spending during peacetime, and other big and small interventions into our everyday lives.
We've also responded to the pandemic with heroic measures such as the historically fast development and deployment of safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics and an increasingly healthy skepticism toward state power. In 2020, the first year of COVID, Gallup reported that fully 54 percent of Americans said the government should be doing more to solve our problems, only the second time in 30 years that a majority called for more state intervention. But after another year—and another unpopular president at the helm—the situation has reversed back to historical patterns, with 52 percent now agreeing that "the government is trying to do too many things that should be left to individuals and businesses."
So how and when will the pandemic—and all the policies, good and bad, that have followed—finally end? I sat down with Bailey and Reason Senior Editor Jacob Sullum to talk about the uselessness of more lockdowns and mandates in the wake of ubiquitous vaccines, how the politicization of public health has rightly driven down trust in medical experts, the ongoing failure of the FDA and other government agencies to rise to the occasion, and the troubling turn of many people, including libertarians, into full-blown anti-vaxxers in the wake of so much misinformation coming from official sources and activists alike.
Sullum, who writes about public health, sounds a cautious note about the legacy of COVID-19. He says that COVID-19 is the sort of emergency—an airborne respiratory virus—that, from a libertarian perspective, government has a legitimate role in combating. But he worries that we'll forget how various levels of government overreached and exceeded legitimate functions of the state with no increase in positive outcomes. "We'll have more emergencies in the future," he says. "We could have a life that's just filled with these sort of rolling emergencies that justify what are no longer extraordinary exercises of power, but just [become] standard operating procedure. I don't think that adults will respond that way because they remember what it was like beforehand and they understood the transition. Younger kids might, if that's mostly what they've known. So I have a hope and a fear."
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All these articles remind me of the saying -- chance happens slowly, then all at once.
Change*
Fucking no edit button
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Try it, you won’t regret it........CASHAPP NOW
Question is, what changed?
Cnn and wapo gave then he okay so they can say it isnt Bidens fault like they said it was trumps.
The poll numbers, I'm guessing.
Gotta give Biden a win on something. May as well tour a mostly empty ICU ward and declare "mission accomplished".
https://nypost.com/2021/12/29/princeton-bars-students-from-leaving-host-county-amid-covid/
At some point, everyone is going to have to say "NO MORE".
We went from "two weeks to flatten the curve", to "you cannot travel freely" in less that two years.
And what if we say "NO MORE" and the state says "FUCK YOU"? Do you really think the government will surrender the new power they've arrogated?
Canada says " yes"
They tried gun confiscation as I was told by a former Cannuck neighbor.
He said it failed bc. the country was too large.
People are fleeing blue areas for red (we'll leave the devastation these locusts can wreak aside), so many are ready to put it behind.
The start of this thing was driven almost exclusively by the NYC-based national news readers, who all saw the Big Apple being hit hard and naturally dictated to the rest of the nation what policies they wanted for their city. So when we talk about wanting it to be over, we either need to stop letting the corporate press fill our heads or we need to tell those influencers who still let the corporate press fill their heads to shut the fuck up.
I think the specter of annihilation that is about to descend onto congressional Democrats (if not the ultimate annihilation itself) may be the only thing that puts an end to this collective madness. That and the obvious "off switch" that is omicron.
100% this
how to talk with anti-vaxxers.
Step one: stop referring to people who, in all likelihood, had their kids get the usual vaccinations that they also got as "anti-vaxxers" over their rightful skepticism over a drug whose own makers are not convinced. Do you not think people have noticed the moving goalposts on what "fully vaxxed" means? You think they're unaware of the nasty side effects that have been reported, or the decades-long delay in FOIA processing that the FDA and Pfizer want?
Nope. They are anti-vaxxed. They might have been ok with vaccines before, but not now. How does one ID an anti-vaxxer? Easy, the lies. They push false narratives, made up statistics, and other lies. They ignore any data that does not fit their narrative. a non-anti-vaxxer does not do that.
Molly so you're going to get all available vaccines out there right? If not you're obviously antivax.
Well, there’s a disingenuous argument.
That's some impressive projection, an easy means to ID someone who swallows officials' unfounded speculation as authoritative scientific judgment. This isn't even a vax as the CDC admits by redefining the term.
Breakthrough cases are not a false narrative, the demand for boosters is not a lie, and a Navy vessel forced to remain docked due to an outbreak among a 100% "vaxxed" crew is not a made up stat.
Not everyone gets every vaccine you government sucking moron. This has always been true. They weigh the cost risk benefits for themselves. Always have.
Ok, you've had us fooled. You are absolutely a parody account. Well done OBL.
How does someone become anti-vaxxed? I'm curious.
It occurs about ten weeks after being vaxxed. Planned obsolescence.
“Planned obsolescence”—But enough about Brandon.
Safe and effective vaccines?
Which ones?
All that I know of are not approved; just "authorized" "for emergency use".
One clear sign of who is who in "the great divisiveness" is the use of pejorative terms like "anti-vaxxer" applied to people who question only the vaccines for one specific disease. No medicine that requires a blanket liability exemption for the manufacturers, or that has to have adverse reactions suppressed, should be described as safe and effective. When the full testing regimen has been completed, and the vaccine(s) have been actually "approved", we can talk further.
This is an example of a liar about vaccines.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
And yet, you cannot get this particular vaccine anywhere. Imagine that. The vaccine you CAN get is NOT the "approved" vaccine you're posting about. Nor are the boosters "approved". Any vaccine or booster you can get is exempt from liability. Yeah, I'll pass.
What? This is either the most common on in the US or a close second.
The COVID-19 vaccines have now been tested by actual use more thoroughly than any clinical trial could possibly test them, and they’ve proven remarkably safe and effective.
I thought it was generally understood that the FDA is normally a pathetic CYA organization that takes way too long to approve life-saving medications. The fact that this vaccine was authorized so quickly is not a sign that the FDA is being corrupt or reckless. It is a sign that the crisis was so big that the organization was forced to use the expedited approval process that it should have been using all this time in the first place.
I do not understand how there are actually people who think the normal, ludicrously slow way that the FDA approves medications and vaccines is the correct, noncorrupt, way that things ought to be, rather than CYA government bureacracy at its laziest.
By the way, the pandemic has ended in several states.
The Communist Chinese Virus is like all other flu strains; take personal actions as you perceive your risk, and live your life.
You clearly hate people and want us all to die! You have to get vaccinated to save the vaccinated! Why isn't this clear? Stop asking questions about settled science and obey your betters! - Molly G
Yes, after this year, I do hate people.
But I don't want ALL to die.
Start with the few I have muted here, then move on the fascists.
Throw in a few of the more strident global climate warming change crowd, and the staffs at CNN, NYT, WaPo (if we didn't get them in the first groups).
That, like 500 lawyers at the bottom of the sea, would be a good start.
(full disclosure. I think they gave me generic meds again)
I was being sarcastic. Posting for troll MollyGodiva. See where I put that at the end?
Are we going to have a third thread where sarcasmic defends biden by saying trump would have done the exact same thing despite trump doing the exact opposite?
Reason, 20 months late is better than never.
How to talk to anti-vaxxers? Who gives a fuck?! We need to talk to the mandaters. I don't have a problem with the antis because I'm vaccinated, and they can make their own choices.
We don't need to talk to people that make a different choice. We need to talk to people that TAKE AWAY a choice.
Is this how you frame the debate over other rights, Nick?
"We need to talk to those people making the choice for an abortion."
"We need to talk to those people about their choice to own guns and their choice to buy weed."
Sorry, Chumby. That's not supposed to be a response to you.
Damn, squirrels.
Are an increasing number of parents refusing to have their children vaccinated? Or does Bailey believe that if you don't get every vaxx available you're an "anti-vaxxer"?
Or if you think the vaccine is a good idea (albeit of temporary benefit) if you are over 60 or immune-compromised, but oppose mandates on principle.
Are they really FULL BLOWN anti-vaxxers, as in they don't get ANY vaccines at all, ever? Or did the definition of anti-vax also change?
For those following along: yes, the definition was changed to include people who don't like vaccine mandates.
Restaurants in Portland Maine are petitioning the local government to require customers be vaccinated.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/maine/articles/2021-12-29/some-portland-restaurants-press-for-vaccine-mandate
Fucking fuck. Move to NYC you assholes.
Why not just mandate it themselves, in their own business?
Because it wouldn't be fair. These are obviously liberals, and liberals love equality by force. The lowest common denominator.
Nice of you to admit the truth even though you meant it as sarcasm.
Because then they would be the only ones to suffer a loss in customers from their policy, as everyone who hasn't taken the COVID shots, or isn't willing to show proof, will go elsewhere. If the government mandates it, they can force other businesses to suffer as well.
Bailey a scared pussy. He's fully vaccinated and boosted, but stayed home (cancelled his Holiday flight) because he was scared of Omicron. That just screams confidence in the vaccine!!!
Honestly, what's most shocking to me is how many people ARE getting the vaccine! Especially those under 50. I see people every day, young healthy people, bragging about getting the vaccine and either having the booster or ready to get it. 99.9996% survival rate for health people under 50. Why the concern again?
The COVID scare porn from the media and Dems is way more effective than I realized; along with people being much more trusting in the government. It's truly shocking to me that people put ANY faith in the government, let alone be willing to take medicine without the long term consequences understood. Some people, sure. But 200 million? Our country really is doomed.
Some states have already learnt this lesson to the extent of enacting statutory or even state-constitutional limits on the duration or scope of emergency powers, or new ways people other than the chief executive can terminate them. I hope California will do this too.
But in the meantime, we all need to be prepared to resist, maybe even physically, tyrannies ranging from travel bans for the unvaxed to forced injections. Not to mention criminals turned loose on us by corrupt city councils or district attorneys who won't do their jobs.
Remember, 80% of the homeless are addicts or have mental health issues. If you're forced to be near them, don't turn your back.
I thought daily testing was the only way to stop it. Still waiting for my test kit.
Psaki psays pshortly.
Psaki psays pshe pwill pneed pto psircle pback.
This is something that was advocated before vaccines were developed.
It's been over here more than a year. Our restaurants have been open since May 2020. We had a city mask mandate, no state mandate, that no one but Walmart enforced. We're 50% vaxxed with no mandates. Deaths are a couple a week.
https://nypost.com/2021/12/29/princeton-bars-students-from-leaving-host-county-amid-covid/
Okay all you Biden supporters, please explain to me how this promotes anything close to liberty and freedom? I know you can explain it since you have explained away all of the lefts' other actions.
Princeton U: Grooming* the Elites of the future!
*By conditioning the compliant snowflake statists and culling the uncooperative.
Abolish public health.
Abolish public.
Abolish health.
That's the plan.
Now you're getting it. Its why its already over throughout most of the country.
If it's over where you live, thank your republican governor for me.
Not ours.
Ron Bailey worried several times about possible variants of sarscov2 that may be worse than the original.
AFAIK, viruses when they mutate become LESS lethal not more. Are there exceptions?
With sarscov2, delta was LESS lethal (but more infectious), omicron is LESS lethal, more infectious and so on ...
Bailey mentioned it many times and seemed really worried - What gives?
Bailey is a pussy for one. He thoroughly believes science will develop before his life's end that will grant him immortality. This severely limits how he calculates risk. Secondly, he really sucks at understanding and interpreting scientific information. Further, he has divine faith in the elites and little suspicion against them or desire to consider more logical alternatives.
I don't think this pandemic of COIVD9 will end soon, so we should take care of ourselves by staying at our homes. So read some best and funny stay some stay safe captions and quotes to enjoy the quarantine life at home by visiting the given link: https://captionandquotes.com/stay-home-stay-safe-quotes-captions/
This article would have been nice 15 months ago.
"SAFE AND EFFECTIVE????" Reason is an extreme disappointment in promoting the Company Line. Does Pfizer contribute to them?
This vaccine has killed more people in the first few months it was given, than ALL other vaccines, together, from the past 30 yrs.
Myocarditis, blood clots, kidney failure, nervous system disorders, lung deficiencies are caused by the vax. Read some of the work of Dr. Robert Malone, who invented mRNA tech, eminent researcher, professor and cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, various pathologists around the world. See a video or 2 of Dr. Vlad. Zelenko who treated Trump and Guiliani successfully.
ANd the numbers, NO WAY IN HELL C19 killed 820K. Look at the video again of Dr. Birx telling docs to put down C19 as a cause of deathe, even if they SUSPECT that patients may have had it. THat many people may have died WITH it, but more likely, most of those died of misbegotten "protocols" of Dr. FRAUDCI- intubation and remdesivir KILL! Just like it is unlikely in the extreme that the flu fell off the face of the earth last yr.
Not to mention that long term effects are unkown, as there has been no long term. Early indications though are that MORE shots cause MORE damage, and that the vaxxed are MORE likely to get Omicron, carry LARGER viral loads, and in fact are the "super spreaders." ALl that based on SCIENCE, not by a bunch of quacks but by the most eminent scientists, doctors and researchers in the world.
Reason would do well to fire ALL those contributing articles on health care given these eggregious misrepresentations.
“I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of people dying of COVID. The case definition is very simplistic. It means at the time of death it was a COVID positive diagnosis. So, that means that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means that if technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause but you had COVID at the same time it’s still listed as a COVID death. Everyone who is listed as a COVID death—that doesn’t mean it was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death.”
Dr. Ngozi Ezike of the Illinois Dept. of Public Health, admitting that COVID deaths are being grossly overcounted.
so its really << 0.2%!
Pan Demic my ass!
Saw a man today wearing a mask that was made of....
PLASTIC MESH.
Abject stupidity!
More people die of cancer every year then Covid has kiiled in the USA so far.
Lifetime odds of getting cancer in 1900 for an American: 1 in 22. Odds today: 40% and climbing (~1 in 2.5). That's a nearly 1000% increase. USA has 10 times as much cancer as most poor countries in Africa & Asia today.
So maybe cancer should be "the topic that has dominated us"
America stood by and watched as both elected officials and self-declared dictators in the guise of health officials levied freedom-depriving edict after freedom-depriving edict on us. America also stood by as storm-trooper rioters, BLM'ers, Antifa, and others roamed freely through cities, rioting, pillaging, stealing, looting, burning, destroying property and openly shooting law enforcement personnel, while city and other government officials declared them to be "peaceful protesters," and not only were of them very few of them arrested, but the ones who were either served no jail time or had the charges against them dropped. And now, America is again standing by while parents and their children are forcibly removed from a restaurant because they weren't vaccinated. And then we have the vaccine mandates on high, those buffoon-generated edicts and mandates from the White House. It will only stop when we, i.e., "America," decide that we've had enough of the Fascism and despotism and forcibly make it stop. The only reason this madness continues is because we can't pry ourselves away from our big screen TV's, our iPads and iPhones, our Twitter and Facebook accounts long enough to actually take some definitive action to make it all stop. While we, as Americans, all revel and celebrate our courageous ancestors who freed us from foreign tyranny and which resulted in the formation of our freedoms that we all now enjoy, sadly, we have also forgotten what it's like to have a spine.
yep, Troll comment. Tupical format, try to hiddme the hate laced Agenda Talkung Point in an otherwise conciliatory comment.
Liar, BLM are peaceful.
Its the outsiders that arent.
Remember? Ferguson PD Chief said the violent ones were from OUTSIDE.
.Rent a Mob paid by Democrats.
Just admit it. you just hate niggas.
Go on...we can handle it.
BLM are blacks and all blacks are bad therefore BLM is all bad.
Now go back to drowning sacks of kittens.
since youre obviously too hideously inbred to Google it...
https://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/USA/USA-Update/2014/0819/Ferguson-Who-are-the-outside-agitators-entering-the-fray
This was obvious to everyone the second the entire "stay in or die" narrative of COVID-19 was abandoned in favor of "go out and protest in giant unmasked crowds for racial justice because racism is the real public health pandemic!"
---------
Yep. If covid was over for protestors, it was over for everybody.
If by "top down" you mean "political polling", then yeah, change is in the air.
Team Blue needs to declare this crisis over by November or they will be utterly savaged in elections.
>Thus, by June 2020, at the very least, it should have been painfully obvious to everyone that none of this was ever about a virus, but about political manipulation and the accumulation of power.
You are giving politicians way too much credit. There's a way simpler explanation than that this was some kind of power grab. It's simply that progressive politicians are so terrified of being called racist that they are willing to sacrifice innocent lives to avoid it. Or, more precisely, that they are willing to engage in moronic double think to try to weasel out of it.
The lockdowns really were about stopping the spread of a virus and before the vaccine they probably did save some lives. After the vaccine they were probably not necessary. But the problem was, if they enforced their lockdowns against the BLM protesters, they might save some lives, but the protesters would probably say they were racist. Progressives flip their lids when someone does that, so they allowed the protests to happen and muttered some stupid double--think about how racism was also a public health problem. Even though if the protests increased the spread of the virus by even a little they would kill far more black people than the police did in the last decade.
And only over for “correct” protesters.
Yep. The lockdown protests were dangerous gatherings, even when they were done INSIDE CARS.
I'm not sure they need to get that far. They just need another round of 'emergency' rules for elections, which can be cemented much earlier than September.