Government Shouldn't Stop People From Doing Self-Destructive Things
We all do them!

The Reason Roundtable kicks this Monday off with a COVID-19 check-in: Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Nick Gillespie cover everything from White House COVID-19 adviser Anthony Fauci's latest statement, bribing people to get the vaccine, and re-upping mask mandates.
Discussed in the show:
1:11: Fauci is warning that the U.S. is going in the wrong direction, and President Joe Biden has recommended masks for children under 12 years old. Where do we draw the line on government intervention for the sake of our health?
31:24: Weekly Listener Question: It's slowly eroding, but it's still common to refer to left progressives in America as "liberals." In the last podcast, for example, Suderman referred to the Democrat legislative agenda as comprising a "liberal" wish list. Given the accelerated retreat from the principles of liberalism on the left, even to the point of disdaining the word itself sometimes, isn't it time for classical liberals and libertarians to take the title, and certainly never grant the honorific to either extreme on the right or left. I know the pedantic idealism here is in tension with using pragmatic descriptions that most people will understand, but at some point the balance tips over.
45:06: Weekly media recommendations
This week's links:
- "Breakthrough Covid, in Perspective," by David Leonhardt
- "New York will require city workers to be vaccinated or tested weekly by mid-September," by Emma Fitzsimmons and Sharon Otterman
- "Language: Liberating Liberal," by Nick Gillespie
- "America Is Getting Unvaccinated People All Wrong," by Ed Yong
Send your questions to roundtable@reason.com. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.
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Audio production by Ian Keyser
Assistant production by Regan Taylor
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve
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Where do we draw the line on government intervention for the sake of our health?
I get the impression from several posters here that no line should ever even be considered.
What line? Government intervention and our health are the same thing, right?
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So which is it, 6375 in the past month or 12 grand in the past 4 weeks? You can’t do both. Get your facts straight.
Worded with better clarity ---
- Pointing Gov-Guns at 'those' people for our health is the right thing to do...
- Pointing Gov-Guns at 'those' people for our education is the right thing to do...
- Pointing Gov-Guns at 'those' people for our housing is the right thing to do...
Wrapped up 'vision' is using a Gun monopoly like a 'gangster' to steal wealth instead of create it is the right thing to do.. The fact there are so many stupid people who truly believe such idiocy will be the failure of the USA.
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Jfree sez if you do something he doesn’t approve of, you shouldn’t be allowed in a hospital.
He was quite a fascist this morning.
This morning?
Is there an synonym of “anti” that starts with “J”?
Juxtapose?
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Fuck Phil Murphy.
Just saying.
If I didn't know better I'd swear he was running unopposed.
I saw him at this year's Memorial Day parade - he looked like some drunk that stumbled out of the Elks lodge and just kinda wandered into the middle of it.
He's an easier target than Corzine was. The R's need to pull their heads out of their asses and start promoting Ciattarelli.
And FFS they need to point out that Murphy and Corzine both worked at Goldman Sachs this time!!
I'm pretty sure Chris christy is the easiest target. You couldn't miss a target that size from a mile away
Yes but he's not running. He can't.
He could roll really fast though you know what I’m saying. Ba dump dump. I’ll be hear all week.
Fauci is warning that the U.S. is going in the wrong direction
That's good news.
Definitely the most punchable face of 2020. Now trying for a double.
Never trust the guy who thought that the best way to fight a pandemic was to start a pandemic.
isn't it time for classical liberals and libertarians to take the title, and certainly never grant the honorific to either extreme on the right or left.?
Yes
Says the biden cultist lol. Tell us again how moderate he is.
Does senile count as moderate?
Dead is as moderate as you can get. Dementia can progress fast. I feel bad for his family. Especially having to watch this happen in public.
I feel bad for the grandkids. Fuck the rest of his family as they are making sure to profit off of him as much as humanly possible.
How power hungry and evil does “Dr” Jill have to be to have put him up to running for president and continuing to run him out there everyday to jumble up all his sentences and forgetting the names of everyone he’s talking to or about. She’s the worst.
Senile Biden's ratings dropping, confidence in government and future is low. GOP is getting handed a win in 2022, assuming they don't blow it.
As for "liberal" sure whatever. At this point I would rather have the old style liberal democrats who no longer exist over these narcissistic pathetic whiny shitstained left winger socialist freaks.
GOP is getting handed a win in 2022, assuming they don’t blow it.
The Stupid Party has ample opportunity to piss needed voters off. "No welfare for anyone who has had, or would consider having, an abortion", or something.
Is that as dumb as “no welfare for the unvaccinated?”
Or JFree’s no medical care for the unvaccinated.
Ironically; The amount of pure narcissistic greed it takes to complain about a stolen handout goes unnoticed.
The real B.S., "What! So you won't give me a car just because I wrecked the last 50 and lost my drivers license??? This is B.S."
No... One's compulsive greedy self-entitlement to everyone else's sympathy factor is not only B.S. but criminal like a scam artist.
Fifty-eight percent of voters overall approve of Biden's job as president while 42 percent disapprove.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/564836-poll-67-percent-approve-of-bidens-handling-of-the-pandemic
Not bad for a senile boring old fuck. Of course the Con Man sucked ass - but people will forget eventually.
Lol. Biden cultist finds his most favorable one to prop him up.
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-job-approval-rating-drops-195659819.html
And glad you think polling is reliable given all the pollsters admir 2020 was a disaster. And the wY you ignore his anti gun, pro tax, pro global tax, lockdown policy, desired 7 trillion in spending and clap along like a retarded seal.
Good for you pedo. You found a hero. One who is also questionable around children.
The fact that the hill could only skew it to 58%approval while the msm runs pro Biden propaganda to a level not seen outside of North Korea should tell you a lot
That poll was in June, and Biden's approval has fallen to 50 in July.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2021/07/24/new-poll-spells-trouble-for-biden-with-record-low-popularity-n2593060
It's one thing to be a Covid sissy like Peter and Matt, but Katherine is actually pro vaccine mandate. What happened to this libertarian magazine, it used to be a source of reason amidst the histeria
The commentariat still leans libertarian.
Conservatism is not the same as libertarianism.
Neither is whiny victimhood.
Tell that to the Trumpbots who post here with massive victimhood complexes on their shoulders.
Sarc’s not a Trumpbot.
Mediocre trolls are best left unfed.
Which part of a conservative government isn't libertarian? Last I checked only lefties ran around pretending libertarians were anarchists.
Contrary to widespread lefty-indoctrinated propaganda. The conservative party isn't based on religious puritan dictation. It's based on limited "conservative" governing.
And any conservative *pretending* to be conservative while propping up Gov-Gun dictation are RINO'S and maligned in their party affiliation.
Sorry, collectivist don’t really get a say in what constitutes “libertarianism”.
Government Shouldn't Stop People From Doing Self-Destructive Things
Agreed.
Followup, should it facilitate people doing destructive things?
Well, to stir the pot: a lotta guys might consider guns as "destructive things".
Still waiting for the school guns program where government provides students of low income families with “free” firearms.
Equity.
Only for the establishment backed things.
Only if it's mostly peaceful
Make all drugs not only legal but free. The abuser problem will drop to a minuscule number in a matter of months.
Well, I can see the conversation going a couple of different ways.
What do you precisely mean by "facilitate"?
Facilitate definition is - to make easier : help bring about.
Not stop people from doing self-destructive things? You might as well not stop all unfairness and sad feelings.
Why even bother being a progressive?
Emergency responders (EMTs, police, firefighters) should be required to get COVID vaccines so that they don't transmit COVID to people with compromised immune systems who don't develop immunity well, or can't take the vaccine. It's proven that vaccinated people transmit the disease less even if they get a breakthrough case. Health care workers in nursing homes who deal with older folks maybe taking arthritis drugs or being treated for cancer: They should be required to get the vaccine.
These workers are free to not get the vaccine and get another job. It's just like not being allowed to drink and pilot an airplane. You are free to drink and not be a pilot. Your freedom stops where it threatens someone else's life.
For example: You collapse on the sidewalk or start choking. Police give you mouth-to-mouth and give you COVID. Thanks a lot.
First responders are being trained to skip the mouth to mouth and just give chest compressions. Apparently enough oxygen in the blood that it isn’t an issue. And when the heart is restarted respiration also restarts.
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Never-mind all the one's who already had it and are immune.
While you are correct; the fact that you pull the needle out of the haystack while dismissing simplest of things like above makes your case rings loudly of just an excuse to be a Power-Mad Dictator.
How Government subsidizes pride in dictation.
Lester so what about if they just didn't help? Are you worried they might have a breakthrough case? What then?
If you have stopped breathing it is worth the risk.
"You collapse on the sidewalk or start choking. Police give you mouth-to-mouth and give you COVID. Thanks a lot."
Not a cop, but if you put that on your medic alert bracelet and, should I see you collapse in public, I'll make sure that the unvaccinated leave you alone. Maybe play it double plus safe and just have everyone leave you alone.
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Yes, but.
If humans are hard wired to conduct certain self-destructive behaviors, wouldn't it be "good" to find ways to prevent those behaviors?
For example: If humans were hard wired to pay $1,000 to push a red button, just for the sake of pushing a red button, would it not make social and economic sense to ban red buttons?
Not for the people who supply red buttons 🙂
What if pushing red buttons is a person's only source of joy and fulfillment? You want them empty and sad and dead from suicide? You monster.
The idea that our Government 'cares' about us enough to stop us from doing stupid (self destructive) things is based only on money.
For example, if the feds didn't get huge taxes from Big Tobacco, they would ban the products simply based on what it has been proven to do to people.
But they do, and so tobacco is still 'allowed'.
Face it folks, an argument can be made for many fattening foods, but there is NO defending tobacco.
Money is ALL they care about, plain and simple.
"Government Shouldn’t Stop People From Doing Self-Destructive Things"
Unless it costs us a LOT of money like higher insurance premiums, taxes/Medicaid, etc. when people go to the hospital when they could have taken a simple vaccine.
I'm tire of people costing me money especially through insurance premiums.
I agree that government shouldn't have to force them; they should do the right thing for their country.
Yes, the government SHOULD prevent people from doing self destructive things--because those activities affect other people too. We do not live on a one person island. The irresponsible and foolish people who have not gotten vaccinated will cause another economic slowdown and COVID explosion that we can ill afford. This attitude that self destructive behavior is OK is self centered and childish, and all ADULTS should be more mature than this.
Perhaps an appropriate comment might be the extent to which government can limit the behavior of an individual in order to protect other individuals?
i.e. Supposing that I don't care if you aren't willing to take precautions to protect your health, perhaps I should care that you might be recklessly spreading a highly contagious & potentially deadly disease?
Please take the time to understand the reproduction # for an infectious disease. Some studies indicate it may be above 6 for Covid19. This means that (assuming a 2 week incubation period) in 3 months time 1 infected person can infect over 46,000 other individuals.
You can be convicted for the criminal transmission of HIV. How is it functionally different if you are transmitting CoVid19?
The government, and especially a legislature, cannot know what is good or self-destructive for every person, and for them to assume otherwise is the pinnacle of conceit.
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If the government really wants to stop people from doing self-destructive things, the best place to start would be by prohibiting people from voting for Republicans or Democrats.
I agree that people should be allowed to do self destructive stuff, but not wearing a mask and refusing to vaccinate against a deadly disease threatens my life and people are not welcome to destroy me.
I’ve got no comments on the politics, but I’m thrilled that Nick mentioned Betty Davis at the end. Love those albums, and always glad when people find them.
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I have mixed views on this. On the one hand, I had a law professor who said the law allows a person to be a damn fool.
On the other hand, my grandmother belonged to the WCTU. She thought no one should be able to consume alcohol, use tobacco, use any drug unless proscribed by a doctor, or gamble.