Maybe Snatching Toddlers From Their Asylum-Seeking Parents Is Who We Are: Podcast

Reason editors discuss what anti-immigration fantasy looks like when translated into policy, and how education diversity goals lead to discrimination.

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Maybe Snatching Toddlers From Their Asylum-Seeking Parents Is Who We Are: Podcast

Chris Kleponis - CNP / MEGA / Newscom

Today President Donald Trump published a half-dozen tweets, of varying levels of factuality and inference, in response to his administration's new policy of separating children from their asylum-seeking parents or guardians at the border. (Sample: "It is the Democrats fault for being weak and ineffective with Boarder Security and Crime. Tell them to start thinking about the people devastated by Crime coming from illegal immigration. Change the laws!") Meanwhile, Quinnipiac University has released a striking new poll showing that a clear majority of Republicans—55 percent to 35 percent—favor rather than oppose the new policy, compared to a 24/68 percent split among independents, and 7/91 among Democrats, giving the question an overall negative rating of 27/66.

Given Republican sentiment and Trump's successes running on the issue, as well as Democratic failures and congressional abdication of responsibility, a bracing truth must be confronted: This is who Americans are, right now. At least so argue argue Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, Nick Gillespie, and Matt Welch, on today's editor-roundtable version of the Reason Podcast. The quartet also take a deep dive into school-admission diversity programs gone wrong, as well as a brief detour into the artistic world of Anthony Bourdain.

Subscribe, rate, and review our podcast at iTunes. Listen at SoundCloud below:

Audio production by Ian Keyser.

Relevant links from the show:

"Donald Trump Is Terrible on Immigration, But Congress Is the True Monster," by Nick Gillespie

"Trump's Policy of Separating Immigrant Families Makes for a Contentious Father's Day," by Robby Soave

"Mom Brings Coughing 10-Month-Old to the Hospital. Days Later, Cops Take the Baby," by Lenore Skenazy

"Trump's Dreamer Fix Will Drag the Country Back to 1924," by Shikha Dalmia

"Hot August Fright: The Month Republicans Lost Their Minds Over Immigration," by Matt Welch

"Study: Elite Colleges' Race-Conscious Admissions Discriminate Against Asian Applicants," by Robby Soave

"Reason.tv: Crazy U's Andrew Ferguson on How to Get Your Kid into College w/o Going Insane," by Jim Epstein and Nick Gillespie

"Legacies of Injustice: Alumni preferences threaten educational equity--and no one seems to care," by Shikha Dalmia

"Anthony Bourdain, Lover of Food and Enemy to All Tyrants, Has Died," by Mike Riggs

Don't miss a single Reason Podcast! (Archive here.)

Subscribe at iTunes.

Follow us at SoundCloud.

Subscribe at YouTube.

Like us on Facebook.

Follow us on Twitter.

What are we consuming this week?

Matt Welch

• Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Black Panther (2018)
• The Crystal Crypt by Philip K. Dick

Nick Gillespie

• The Americans

Peter Suderman

• Manhattan Beach: A Novel by Jennifer Egan
• The Keep by Jennifer Egan

---

Comments

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

I find the selective outrage about something that has been happening to anyone who couldn't get/make bail immediately to be more than a little nauseating.

[Cathy L]

Yeah, Reason has never written before about inappropriate detention of people for bullshit misdemeanors and other crimes that shouldn't be on the books.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

Who said anything about Reason, you stupid fucking sockpuppet?

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Chill out, rando. Nobody knows who the fuck you are either.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

Or what?

What if I don't chill out?

Oh yeah, nothing.

[$park? leftist poser]

Oooooooooooh, burn!

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

You don't seem to know how burns work.

[loveconstitution1789]

$parkY does not know how a lot of things work.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

Looks like, John is kicking him around too.

[$park? leftist poser]

Another sick burn, bro.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

Looks like LC was right.

[$park? leftist poser]

Damn, call the burn unit.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

You just gonna keep posting that over and over until we go away and get on woth our lives, to gain some small satisfaction?

Cool, you win.

[$park? leftist poser]

Cool, you win.

Yep, now go cry somewhere else.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

You first.

Yeah, I know, burn.

Of course, you're the one crying at me. About your sockpuppet I guess.

[$park? leftist poser]

Of course, you're the one crying at me.

Keep crying.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

I mean, you're presumably an adult. You would have to function normally in real life right? Wife and kids? God how damaged are they from living with you?

[$park? leftist poser]

I mean, you're presumably an adult. You would have to function normally in real life right? Wife and kids? God how damaged are they from living with you?

It's ok big guy. One day you'll be somebody.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

You mean a thred police like you who jumps off the handle at the slightest provocation for no reason

[Cathy L]

So whose selective outrage are you bitching about?

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

How about "fuck you you stupid fucking sockpuppet"

[Cathy L]

Okay, I'll try to keep in mind that despite publicly commenting on a blog post, you don't want anyone to respond to you.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

No stupid fucking sockpuppet, just YOU.

[$park? leftist poser]

You should change your name to Trogdor the Burninator.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

This is what you do isn't it? Shit up threads and keep posting until you "win" right?

Great, you win. You can stop "posting" now.

[$park? leftist poser]

Shit up threads and keep posting until you "win" right?

I turn stupid asshole trolls like you into crybabies.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

I guess you can't stop posting.

And let's be honest. No one is crying. I always wonder why people say that. No one really cares except you. And the fact that you care, and shit up threads trolling people you think are trolls is so tired and common that you can't escape it on the internet.

I don't know why you bother. When you're done, nothing will have changed except you'll a little closer to death.

[$park? leftist poser]

I don't know why you bother.

This is you crying.

And the fact that you care, and shit up threads trolling people you think are trolls is so tired and common that you can't escape it on the internet.

Inorite!

Wilsonian Diplomacy|6.18.18 @ 4:30PM|#

No stupid fucking sockpuppet, just YOU.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

"loveconstitution1789|6.18.18 @ 4:46PM|#

What party does John belong to?

He seems to have opinions that fall all along the political spectrum.

reply to this report spam
$park? leftist poser|6.18.18 @ 4:48PM|#

Oh look, it's the guy who runs around with his tongue up John's ass"

And that's you trolling. I'll step aside while you self flagellate.

[$park? leftist poser]

And that's you trolling. I'll step aside while you self flagellate.

You're still up here crying. Such a shame.

[loveconstitution1789]

$parkY, you do have a habit of jumping in with bad one-liners.

[$park? leftist poser]

you do have a habit of jumping in with bad one-liners.

Irony of the highest order. Well done.

[loveconstitution1789]

Of course, my one-liners are bad. I'm mentioning you.

Now that's a BURN!

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

He'e making up for the fact that hes under educated and has a miserable home life imagine his wife is out sucking the neighbor right now

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

Oh shit you know he's driving home right now. Odds he'll fire up his Tandy and come in here slinging once he gets there?

[loveconstitution1789]

Tandy... that's funny. Good 'ol Radioshack.

Do you know that Tandy was a family owned leather company in the early 20th Century? I didn't know that and they had a decent run.

[Mark22]

Yeah, Reason has never written before about inappropriate detention of people for bullshit misdemeanors

Trying to enter the US illegally with your kid and then turning around and asking for asylum is indeed "bullshit". You're right that people shouldn't be detained, they should be deported immediately.

[The ghOst of mcgOo]

...and the shithole country that they came from should pay.

[Paloma]

Patent nonsense.

[Wilsonian Diplomacy]

Oh look it's one of the selective outragers to dispute the selective outrage part, because he couldn't possibly be stupid enough to dispute the fact that it happens all over the US every day to women who go to jail.

[Paloma]

Anyone in the US in jail for a crime knows exactly where their kids are, who they are with, and can call them up on the phone, write them, or have them come and visit.

If you think that's exactly the same as someone seeking asylum and all of a sudden That Dirtbag Sessions decides that the grounds for asylum that were in place before have changed. Now they are detained and have their kids seized by ICE gestapo who take them who knows where? Not their parents, not the immigration officials, not even the immigration judges. They have absolutely no idea where their kids are nor when they'll be released. That Dirtbag Session's Gestapo don't have to tell anyone.

So look, dumbass, having a clue about what your talking about would be helpful. Otherwise get your own blog for dumbasses like yourself.

[MJBinAL]

You are full of shit.

"Anyone in the US in jail for a crime knows exactly where their kids are, who they are with, and can call them up on the phone, write them, or have them come and visit."

Are you really so stupid you believe this is how it works? Do you not know that people in prison see their children only on visiting days, if them? Are you under the impression they can just call people anytime they like?

Wow.

[John]

Or maybe the fact that this has been the law since 1997 and neither reason nor you said a word about it until it became the Journolist talking point de jour is who you are Matt? Did you dream of wasting your mind and life becoming a hack writer or didit just happen that way?

[$park? leftist poser]

You accusing others of being hacks would be way funnier if it didn't happen so often.

[John]

Someday maybe you will be smart enough to even reach the level of being a hack. I doubt it, but we can always hope

[Eric Cartman]

...

CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!

[$park? leftist poser]

I doubt it too.

BTW, your "you're a stupid person" joke would also be funnier if it didn't happen so often.

[John]

I would come up with a different line but that one just always seems to apply. Reason has a fair list of people like you who are not only dumb but seem to take pride in it. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

[Libertymike]

Last week, I described Sparky as "our resident misanthrope." I think it was rather generous of me, actually.

[$park? leftist poser]

Yeah, I'm a misanthrope because... reasons. Reasons that you were unable to elucidate, I might add.

[Libertymike]

Spark, the misanthropy just oozes from your posts.

[$park? leftist poser]

I see that you're still unable to elucidate.

[$park? leftist poser]

I do take pride in being too dumb to be a partisan hack. Because when I see you do it regularly I just know that I'd hate to be like that.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm a hack commenter. Like a hack journalist, but not paid.

[$park? leftist poser]

We're all hack trolls and sock puppets anymore. It's just the way it is now.

[loveconstitution1789]

What party does John belong to?

He seems to have opinions that fall all along the political spectrum.

[$park? leftist poser]

Oh look, it's the guy who runs around with his tongue up John's ass. For the record, John is a Republican.

[Pro Libertate]

Off the top of my head, John's not a big fan of cops, so he's an impure Republican.

[loveconstitution1789]

That is why nobody takes you seriously, $parkY.

Me pointing out that YOU'RE wrong elicits homophobic attacks from YOU.

I have never seen John post that he was a Republican.

[$park? leftist poser]

That is why nobody takes you seriously, $parkY.

There are a few people here who if they said that it would concern me. You are not one of those people.

Me pointing out that YOU'RE wrong elicits homophobic attacks from YOU.

Yeah, I'm making fun of you because I think you're a giant goofball.

I have never seen John post that he was a Republican.

You also haven't been around as long as he has.

[loveconstitution1789]

Hey, I hear ya man! Here you have people pointing out your actual nonsense and you you reply with more nonsense. To quote you 'Oooooooooooh, burn!".

Discussing freedoms and the Constitution are goofy. Its my curse.

[Libertymike]

Plus, Sparky is a misanthrope.

[$park? leftist poser]

Hating just a handful of people doesn't make a person a misanthrope. If it did, your hatred of blacks, Jews, and ugly women would put you right up near the top of the pile.

[Libertymike]

There you go again, making claims without a factual predicate. I do not hate blacks or ugly women.

[MJBinAL]

Well, you have the "too dumb" part down pat!

[Magnitogorsk]

What law are you referring to? It sounds as if you've fallen for what our dear leader would call "Fake News"

[Chereth Cutestory maritime aty]

It was ok until now, because Trump.

[Citizen X]

Who's "we," kemosabe?

[Hugh Akston]

People identifying with something they have no say in is a deeply weird phenomenon.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Like characters in an Ayn Rand novel?

[Hugh Akston]

That's different, because uh, something something objective reality. Kant sux.

[Pro Libertate]

Kant touch this.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Hey, you didn't stop them from doing these bad things. Take some responsibility, X.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This is who Americans are, right now.

I believe that if the parties were reversed, you'd be seeing pretty much the same numbers. If Hilldawg was up there stamping out the illegal immigrant threat to union jobs, Republicans would be polled as more or less in favor of businesses being able to hire cheap foreign import labor simply because the other party is screaming the opposite. This is who Americans are, right now more than ever.

[JeremyR]

Naw. They'd just find something else to bitch about, like with Bill was president and governed like a Republican.

[John]

Establishment Republicans already are. If Hillary were President and doing that she would be more popular for doing so. Sometimes people actually disagree with you about something.

[mad.casual]

I believe that if the parties were reversed, you'd be seeing pretty much the same numbers.

You don't even necessarily have to do that. You could just proposed protections for asylum seekers that fall under half the population's notions of 'human rights' and they'll approve of it whether those protections are granted to native citizens or not. The Windsors of US v. Windsor weren't even married here.

[loveconstitution1789]

Fist, Trump is the Republican response to this immigrant issue.

You might be partly right that Republicans would be bitching about things Queen Hillary was doing but bitching about immigration would be because the flood of illegals was still a problem.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

It's going to be so awesome when the liartarians' favorite global politician (now that Obama is gone), frumpy potato sack with legs Angela Merkel, is booted out on her big fat ass in just a few more days because the Germans are tired of her immigration bullshit.

[Citizen X]

Did you come up with "liartarians" on your own or did some of the other folks at the group home help you?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

It came to him in a medically induced dream.

[Flinch]

Merkel is the only thing floating another experiment in open borders policy: the EU. Stop bogarting.

[I can't even]

I'm looking forward to Trump changing the policy - and Reason's new year-long outrage series on kids getting beat-up and raped while in jail with their parents.

[loveconstitution1789]

Reason will still blame Trump.

The solution Reason will accept is open borders and calling Americans, who want more secure borders, disrespectful names.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

*faints dead away*

[Chereth Cutestory maritime aty]

An open borders platform will doom the LP as a fringe party.

Welch might be less shrill on the subject if he just leveled his blood sugar by eating a yummy Trumpburger

[lap83]

"Who we are" is apparently a country incapable of calm, honest discussion on anything. Pointing out that kids get separated from parents when they break a law is not an argument against that law unless you are too stupid and emotional to think of anything better.

[$park? leftist poser]

"Who we are" is apparently a country incapable of calm, honest discussion on anything.

All the comments up thread prove you wrong.

Or right. One of those two.

[loveconstitution1789]

To be fair, all the other open border arguments have failed to elicit Trump being impeached.

Its desperation all the way down.

[loveconstitution1789]

When I say "arguments", I am being generous.

[Tony]

Photos of wailing children being ripped from their parents' arms injects far too much sentimentality into this political debate. They should probably be banned for the sake of sobriety and calmness.

Now everybody hide yer daughter, the brownies are comin at her and they got rape in their eyes!

[loveconstitution1789]

Where is that picture of Elian Gonzalez?

Remember? Bill Clinton was president.

[Tony]

US government needlessly and cruelly inflicting a lifetime of psychological trauma on little kids... for racism.

Still winning?

[loveconstitution1789]

MAGA to deport as many as possible!

We'll save the illegals a lifetime of American racism. They'll be better for it.

[Tony]

I think you actually believe that making America great again means turning it into such a shithole that brown people will start preferring the central American gangs.

[Cy]

According to you, it already is. It's all whitey's fault too right?

[Tony]

MS13 certainly did originate in America, only to metastasize into a foreign scapegoat.

[Chereth Cutestory maritime aty]

Tony, you just stated the democrat platform.

[lap83]

"... for racism"
what was the reason under Obama?

[Tony]

Political cowardice and/or ruthless political pragmatism.

[lap83]

I like ruthless political cowardice, let's go with that

[Tony]

Not the worst description of the Obama doctrine I've ever seen.

[Flinch]

The end result was right, but Janet Reno had zero patience for due process. The outcome would have been the same, but...taking children at gunpoint by masked men sure looked like kidnapping to me [and in defiance of the court if memory serves]. That was one of the moments that earned the "jack booted thugs" moniker by the NRA in my estimation. Reno earned that and more, but I won't uncork my full sailors vocabulary. The only question to me is why did Bush elect to have a 'new tone' and leave her hand selected crew of hooligans stay - they are part of the reason the DOJ and FBI are in full meltdown mode on the public relations front, as they are ensconced with as much seniority as can be accrued without retirement.

[Paloma]

Janet Reno did earn that moniker, but Bill Clinton had a habit of having women do his dirty work. Including his wife.

[SusanM]

Okay, so who is this Anthony Bourdain guy again? I swear I'd never heard of him until he died and got the whole world mourning for him.

[Pro Libertate]

He was a snarky chef/critic. Probably commented here.

[SusanM]

Thanks! That explains it...I guess...-ish...sorta, kinda...no, not really. Although I don't follow calebrity chefs all that well. Three day-old pizza and flat Mountain Dew is my idea of Haute Cuisine so what do I know?

[Brett Bellmore]

Went around the world making people think he was brave for trying foreign foods, basically. I've eaten things that would have made him faint dead away.

But, balut? Never again, that's gross.

[Curly4]

No that is not what we are. That is a necessary temporary action that has been brought on by past political action. When the courts ruled that a child could not be held in detention for more than twenty days and the politician did not make a change to allow it. But there is a solution for the holding children in detention for more than twenty days. If the parent cannot be shown that they have a valid claim to come into the country even if the reason is because of the lack of time the family would be reunited and deported at the end of the twenty days. But I know that will not work for yelling the loudest. The only thing that will work is to open the border and let them all in without question.
This is a political problem created by a court ruling which that those who benefit from the bring in these (illegal immigrants) were quick to see that that ruling would make them big money. With that realization that all an adult person wanting to get into the US had to do was to bring in some children and claim that they are a family and THEY ARE IN! This worked in past administrations but needed to get the immigration policy and law corrected it will no longer work now. The US accepts more immigrants than any other single country.

[Paloma]

No it doesn't

[Mark22]

Here is how you can avoid being separated from your kids:

Don't try to cross into the US illegally with your kids.

That's it.

You can seek asylum and won't get separated. You can even walk up right to a US entry point and ask for asylum and you won't get separated.

The only way you get separated from your kids for more than a few days is (1) if you try to enter the US illegally, (2) you get caught, (3) you then claim asylum, (4) your asylum is denied, and (5) you refuse to comply with the removal order.

[Vernon Depner]

I don't believe that's correct. If you are caught entering the US illegally and are charged under USC 1325, then you would be detained and separated from your children pending adjudication of your illegal entry charge, regardless of whether you requested asylum. The asylum request and the prosecution for illegal entry are two separate things.

[Mark22]

I don't believe that's correct. If you are caught entering the US illegally and are charged under USC 1325, then you would be detained and separated from your children pending adjudication of your illegal entry charge, regardless of whether you requested asylum.

That's what I said, isn't it?

[Vernon Depner]

That's what I said, isn't it?

No.

[Brett Bellmore]

No, that is what he said. Look at his step #1 again.

[Vernon Depner]

No, that's not what he said. Look at his steps 3 and 4 again.

[Paloma]

Bullshit. But keep repeating that lie to yourself so you can look at yourself in the mirror without seeing a monster.

[MJBinAL]

Actually, this is pretty accurate. You only get detained (beyond a couple of days) for doing something illegal. ALL of these folks entered the US illegally.

AND most of them are claiming asylum, even though they should have claimed it in the first country they came to and should never have arrived in the US at all.

[Flinch]

Garbage headline that is just clickbait. Truly disappointing as reason is tossed under the bus for the sake of an emotional reaction - shame on Reason. We arrived at the current situation because dems have been bucking for open borders for some time. The first shoe to drop was for them to halt family detention for illegal entry [hiding behind the kids as usual]. The second shoe to drop was changing the law to set children on a different timeline and legal process, which forces the split of the family, knowing full well this day would arrive when adults seeking asylum would lose their children in the process. I note congress was silent up 'til now. So naturally, it's time for dems to hide behind children once more to mask their abuse of families to break immigration policy permanently: the only thing they accept at present is to do nothing but watch, but... presidents take an oath to faithfully execute the laws, and in this case the law not only sucks, it's dangerous to minors as well as the rule of law. Don't let republicans off the hook however: they stood around and watched as usual like the tards they are.
All of this is on congress, and a malevolent law passed to do damage to people for the purpose of breaking the nation.

[Tony]

If you're going to repeat a lie enough times for people to believe it, it should be short and punchy. "No collusion!" for example, though that may err too much on the side of brief.

[Harvard]

Doesn't err at all for accuracy though.

[Paloma]

Tony's right this time.

[MJBinAL]

I would suggest we alert the media, but they don't actually print news anymore.

[Chereth Cutestory maritime aty]

What is Tony right about?

[MJBinAL]

Why Tony? You repeat the same lies over and over and over, yet write thousands of lines of text while you do it.

[Longtobefree]

Or maybe a conniving bunch of border jumpers rich enough to pay coyotes are using kids (maybe even their own) for emotional blackmail at the border, and are no longer getting away with it?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

That's right. The Guatemalan peasants are really the bad guys here.

[Cy]

"Peasants" You really are a piece of shit.

[MJBinAL]

yep, the peasants who managed to pay thousands of dollars to bribe their way across countries to get the USA illegally. The peasants who managed to pay thousands of dollars to coyotes to help smuggle them into the USA illegally.

The peasants who claim asylum, but did not claim it in any of the countries they crossed to get here.

Yes, you fucking prick, they are the bad guys here.

[Chereth Cutestory maritime aty]

I don't think I want people who do all that stuff in my country.

[Ben_]

Do US citizens who get arrested for breaking laws get to keep their kids in jail? No.

Is this whole issue a phony media political campaign? Yes.

[Paloma]

You have to be a complete idiot to believe the two situations are remotely equal. But then again, with Trump supporters, that's par for the course.

[MJBinAL]

You have to be a complete idiot not to see that they are EXACTLY equal.

And further, immigrants in detention have been held separately like this for DECADES. It is only an issue now because progressives like you don't want immigration laws enforced at all.

[Cy]

"Is this whole issue a phony media political campaign?"

I thought they'd hit a new low with the school shootings and bussing kids around and then they turn right around and hit another new low!

[Gilbert Martin]

I see that Reason along with the rest of the media is still doing it's best to ignore the fact that all those people coming up through Mexico are supposed to be getting asylum in Mexico instead of the United States.

If they actually qualify for asylum, then Mexico is supposed to take them and this shouldn't be happening in the first place.

[MJBinAL]

This, like much of this conversation , is stupid.

The choices are:

Option 1: Hold the illegals in detention with the adult males, adult females, male children, and femaie children held separately. (in large part to protect said children)

Option 2: Free the illegals making them pinky promise to come back for their court date.

What the progressives want is Option 2. They want this because they know that, based on experience, the illegals will disappear into the country and will not show up for the court date.

So all the whining about "ripping children from their parents arms" is bullshit. It is really about preventing effective enforcement of the immigration laws.

[Tony]

And mindless enforcement of draconian laws that serve no purpose is what libertarianism is all about.

[Chereth Cutestory maritime aty]

Our immigration laws are very purposeful. You must be confused.

[Lucius Junius Brutus]

Enforcement of the law is not to be anti-immigration. Enforce the law! Those who breach the border outside of the law are invaders and must be repelled. If they bring their children with them, the blame is on them when the Law is Enforced.

Admittance to Galt's Gulch is by invitation.

[ThomasD]

Maybe Matt's only standards are double standards

https://tinyurl.com/y7lxc7kg

Or maybe Matt's only standard is pimping whatever the new and improved Journolist tells him it is.

TDS is a powerful, and revealing thing.